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My feelings on The Demon Rush
Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/MetroidPrime.html

Stefan van 'Mister Shin' Dijke's PAL 22% run

Verifier Responses

Quote:
Didn't find any problems with the audio/video.

The gameplay, however, I don't fully agree with it. Most of the run was nicely performed though, but there were some nasty mistakes here and there (Or maybe I'm just a little too picky...).

Segment 04: Gets stuck with the Morph Ball next to the pipe at 3:38, costs him 2 seconds.
Segment 06: Jumps to a spot at 8:52 to stand on and then falls off so he needs to take a little trip to get to the same spot again, costs him 6 seconds. At 10:30 a bad dash happens and he bumps into the wall, costs about 4 seconds.
Segment 07: He falls next to the path because of the spike attack from an enemy, costs about 2 seconds.
Segment 09: He jumps and bumps into a flying enemy (And it was obvious that it would happen, I guess the runner was hoping the enemy would move away) so he needs to jump again to get on the platform at 3:09, costs 2 seconds.
Segment 10: Heh... He nicely performed the tricks to get the Plasma Beam and when I was watching this segment I was like "Mark my words, now he WILL mess up after this" and behold... Exactly at the end Tongue He tried to jump on the ship to save and slides off of it, costs 2 seconds. That was actually really an "Awww, I feel sorry :(" moment.
Segment 17: Failed the jump and needs to do it again at 3:12, costs 6 seconds.
Segment 18: At 4:24, badly landed dash, costs about 6 seconds.
Segment 19: At 5:54, he gets stuck on an enemy with the Morph Ball, costs 3 seconds.
Segment 20: Exactly in the beginning of the segment he messed up and needed to jump again to get on higher ground. So early on in the segment is unacceptable.

I think that's about it.
Well, like I said, maybe I'm being a bit too picky. It's just that the mistakes look very ugly. Most are pretty long segments (And the mistakes don't really cost a tremendous amount of time...), and most of the stuff in the run was quite nice.
I wanted to reject the run but Mike already told me I was outvoted (Mike's note: I told him this after he gave his verdict), so... I would kindly like to ask if you want to redo the run sometime and iron out those mistakes Wink


Quote:
I have verified the Metroid Prime low% run.

The audio/video quality is great. The segments all line up in terms of items collected.

The run's quality is excellent. He scans the four rune symbols instead of Double Bomb Jumping over the gate in the Flaaghra segment (outdated), but that's no big deal. He's a bit slow/careful in some places, but that's usually to survive given his minimal equipment. The most tedious/boring part of the run is the Meta Ridley fight, which takes seven and a half minutes, but there's really nothing to complain about. It just takes awhile because he doesn't have the Charge Beam/Missile Combos.

Overall I'd say definitely accept a fine low% run.


Quote:
Hi Mike,

Normally I'd do a segment by segment analysis, but tbh, for this run there's no need. I can say honestly, that this is - genuinely - one of the most impressive Metroid Prime runs I've ever seen (and in fact, one of the most impressive speedruns period). It's so good, that after watching it, I think 22% looks dead easy to do (and I personally know from my own experience  - and Stefan's notes - it sure as hell isn't!).

The fact that he sucessfully pulls off the Great Tree Hall DBJ on his first go every...single...time... (in very difficult segments of their own) had my jaw - literally - open in sheer awe. The run's smooth, easy to watch, and heck, I even learn't a couple of new minor speed tricks for 22% runs watching this!  Cheesy

There are a few mistakes for sure, nothing majorily costly, just a couple of seconds here or there. Although, I was suprised to see that he never went for the DBJ -> Instant Unmorph after collecting the artifact in the Tower in Phen. I thought that way was slighly faster than bombing up the fallen tower and rolling back towards the door again...  Undecided But that's just a small observation.

As far as the video and audio is concerned, the audio was always in synch (I used VLC to view it), but I noticed what appeared to be a jump up in viusal quality from about seg 11 or so onwards. The first few segments looked like - very HQ - VHS rips, but the latter set looked more like direct-feed capture card quality. Could have just been my eyes, but thought I'd mention it anyways.

So overall, I'd defanitely say it should be accepted. It's a beautiful run, that makes short work of the stupidly tough Sequence Breaks that the game required. A big thumbs up from me!  8)

Andrew


Quote:
Here it is:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, this was an exciting run to watch. There was an impressive display of dash jumps throughout, and despite some minor errors here and there, they are nonetheless acceptable considering the long segment lengths

I was, however, very dissapointed with the final segment of the run, even in light of the fact that this is a low% run.

I hate to say this but I strongly advice the speedrunner to re-do the final segment with a better attempt seeing as there is far too much time lost in the current one.

You let him to disable your ability to lock-on 3 times, most of your shots missed, and lost like 25 seconds when you didn't found the boss when he was invisible in the second the fight.

Metroid Prime 1st fight:
When you see him charge his laser attack and you are in front of him, just jumpt to the left while locking onto him. Then, when is going to shoot, just dodge the attack and put yourself in front of him. At this point your beam attacks won't miss and you won't need to jump to land hits reliably.

Metroid Prime 2nd fight:
When you can't locate the boss with either visor, change to the scan visor immediately. It may still be difficult to find him, but it's better than circling around the level attempting to find him.

Final Veredict: Accept
I will accept this run since it is a total improvement over pirate109's speedrun.
I reccomend he re-does the final segment of his speedrun.


Quote:
End time is 1:27, 9 minutes slower than the NTSC normal 22 by Trebor and 1 minute faster than the NTSC hard 22 by Smiley Jack.

There's a bunch of dashes along the top of the screen on segments 8-12, incidentally those are the segments the player worked on in 07.  Everything else looks fine.

Some bad luck or something during Prime II but given that it's harder on the PAL version (double health), feel free to give it a pass.  Accept.


Quote:
If i say this is jizz in my pants good will that be good enough for a verification?

Loved the baby sheegoth battle. Loved vent shaft. Loved in segment 19 when he has like 30 health and decides to just ice beam missle combo that fire snake in the face. I was like wtf is he do...that was bad ass.

There were a few missed jumps here and there throughout the run but nothing bad. I mean its a 21 min improvement over the older run and the 3+ year old segments are still very up to date with current runs. Definitely accept!!!

oh and you can put these as comments from craztad if you need permission for that. I don't know how that works for the new run verification thread.


Decision: Accept

Reason: It's a huge improvement over the current run.
Thread title:  
Who doesn't love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Thanks for verifying guys! I do agree on most of the things you posted. The reason that I took the bad prime 2 fight was that I timed my run at 1:27:45 and I don't think a good prime fight would get me 1:26. It was actually the second time that I fought prime form 2 when attempting this run. To be honest I still have no clue how to hit him in his thermal state, but don't worry, I'll get around to that Cheesy

I’m redoing segment 18 up to the end, only because I personally think that these segments are pretty poor. I'm in impact crater right now, 40 seconds faster. I saved 15 seconds alone in segment 18. I’m really trying my best on these segments. Also I'm recording and compressing in higher quality according to the new rules.

Quote:
As far as the video and audio is concerned, the audio was always in synch (I used VLC to view it), but I noticed what appeared to be a jump up in viusal quality from about seg 11 or so onwards. The first few segments looked like - very HQ - VHS rips, but the latter set looked more like direct-feed capture card quality. Could have just been my eyes, but thought I'd mention it anyways.


All segments are direct capture but I know what you mean. The 'line' that is in segments 1 to 10 disapeared when I pressed a switch on the thingy that splits the audio and video. I actually have no idea what it's for.

I hope you all enjoyed the run, I worked my ass off for this one.
Master-88
Congrats Stefan. This is really awesome job. It is nice see how you redo Pirate run over 20 minutes. And your run is about 30 minutes faster than my 22% speedguide on youtube.

I´ll really wait see that run. Great job man. Wink
You got a deletion wish?
I was going to do like DK28 (not Frezy or M-88) but decided not to at the last minute.
MrGrunz is a guay
Can't wait to watch this :).
AlphaStrategyGui des.com
Congrats again on the run Stefan, it was simply fantastic to watch, especially considering how old the early segments are. There were a few mistakes, but the toughest tricks were preformed effortlessly.  Cheesy Looking forward to seeing your improved final few segments.  Smiley
Wow Stefan, I can't wait to see your run.

Great work. Smiley
You got a deletion wish?
Quote from Verifier B:
He scans the four rune symbols instead of Double Bomb Jumping over the gate in the Flaaghra segment (outdated), but that's no big deal.


You can't bomb jump over the arboretum runic gate in the PAL version.  It's blocked off.
gamelogs.org
i believe it was decided that scanning the symbols is actually faster anyway.
Quote from MatrixTN:
Quote from Verifier B:
He scans the four rune symbols instead of Double Bomb Jumping over the gate in the Flaaghra segment (outdated), but that's no big deal.


You can't bomb jump over the arboretum runic gate in the PAL version.  It's blocked off.


I found that out the hard way spending several minutes trying to on my last play through.
(user is banned)
Edit history:
MPzoid: 2009-06-03 11:55:39 am
Mario shrimp vs. The Fuzionator
there is something i wanted to respond to this stupid topic:

the first verifier quote:

Quote:
Didn't find any problems with the audio/video.

The gameplay, however, I don't fully agree with it. Most of the run was nicely performed though, but there were some nasty mistakes here and there (Or maybe I'm just a little too picky...).

Segment 04: Gets stuck with the Morph Ball next to the pipe at 3:38, costs him 2 seconds.
Segment 06: Jumps to a spot at 8:52 to stand on and then falls off so he needs to take a little trip to get to the same spot again, costs him 6 seconds. At 10:30 a bad dash happens and he bumps into the wall, costs about 4 seconds.
Segment 07: He falls next to the path because of the spike attack from an enemy, costs about 2 seconds.
Segment 09: He jumps and bumps into a flying enemy (And it was obvious that it would happen, I guess the runner was hoping the enemy would move away) so he needs to jump again to get on the platform at 3:09, costs 2 seconds.
Segment 10: Heh... He nicely performed the tricks to get the Plasma Beam and when I was watching this segment I was like "Mark my words, now he WILL mess up after this" and behold... Exactly at the end Tongue He tried to jump on the ship to save and slides off of it, costs 2 seconds. That was actually really an "Awww, I feel sorry :(" moment.
Segment 17: Failed the jump and needs to do it again at 3:12, costs 6 seconds.
Segment 18: At 4:24, badly landed dash, costs about 6 seconds.
Segment 19: At 5:54, he gets stuck on an enemy with the Morph Ball, costs 3 seconds.
Segment 20: Exactly in the beginning of the segment he messed up and needed to jump again to get on higher ground. So early on in the segment is unacceptable.

I think that's about it.
Well, like I said, maybe I'm being a bit too picky. It's just that the mistakes look very ugly. Most are pretty long segments (And the mistakes don't really cost a tremendous amount of time...), and most of the stuff in the run was quite nice.
I wanted to reject the run but Mike already told me I was outvoted (Mike's note: I told him this after he gave his verdict), so... I would kindly like to ask if you want to redo the run sometime and iron out those mistakes Wink


that guy was a complete asshole who has no idea. he worked 4 years on a hard category. try doing that yourself asshole.

taken from the second verifier quote:

Quote:
He scans the four rune symbols instead of Double Bomb Jumping over the gate in the Flaaghra segment (outdated)


this person has no idea. that tells me that sda engages people who have no idea to verify speedruns. i had that problem in early 2008 when sda wanted to reject my current pal ss 100% because people who had no idea verified it the first time.

actually i have understood that this community hates me (and also the administration of the site) and that i am not welcome here. that's probably also why they finally were happy why there was someone except me who did some new runs of metroid prime and they replaced my run by a run which used the IS glitch and which needed to be a separate category.

well i just want to let ya all know that i really don't care if ya hate me. i don't care about the new SDA (not anymore).
i don't care about anyone of you.

i am definitely not quitting speedrunning. i will still make some future runs. though i will not send them to SDA because i don't like the site and i don't like the rules of this site and it's entire system and because i am also not liked and not welcome here. i will upload my future runs anywhere else in the internet but sda. SDA is not all the entire speedrunning. speedrunning relies in our hearts and not in sda. i will continue speedrunning metroid prime because i am in love with the game and not with sda. i can still do speedrunning without sda. obviously i don't need sda.

now if you like you can remove all my remaining speedruns from this site because i really don't care about SDA
You got a deletion wish?
I don't hate you man.  Some probably aren't aware of M2K2 (incidentally, I found M2K2 before SDA).  Don't let all of them rub you the wrong way Z.
My feelings on The Demon Rush
Zoid, I don't think anyone hates you on this site, not even Angerfist (even though what he said was very very stupid). In fact, I think most of us enjoy your Metroid Prime runs a lot and would love to see more from you

Quote from Zoid:
there is something i wanted to respond to this stupid topic:

the first verifier quote:


that guy was a complete asshole who has no idea. he worked 4 years on a hard category. try doing that yourself asshole.


That verifier is known for being ridiculously picky, but Stefan's run is an improvement and he was outvoted so what's the problem?

Quote:
this person has no idea. that tells me that sda engages people who have no idea to verify speedruns. i had that problem in early 2008 when sda wanted to reject my current pal ss 100% because people who had no idea verified it the first time.


Verification is a volunteer system, so the experience of the people who verify varies from game to game. That being said, I should probably contact more people from M2K2 to verify Metroid Prime runs.

Quote:
actually i have understood that this community hates me (and also the administration of the site) and that i am not welcome here. that's probably also why they finally were happy why there was someone except me who did some new runs of metroid prime and they replaced my run by a run which used the IS glitch and which needed to be a separate category.

...

well i just want to let ya all know that i really don't care if ya hate me. i don't care about the new SDA (not anymore).
i don't care about anyone of you.


I don't know why you think we hate you. I don't think anyone has said anything hostile towards you. Taking off your run was a mistake, I'll send nate the corrected html with your run back on it soon.

Quote:
now if you like you can remove all my remaining speedruns from this site because i really don't care about SDA


Why would we want to do that? You have the best Metroid Prime runs on the site.
sda loyalist
That was some serious baw. Just because a verifier points out mistakes doesn't mean he hates you. In fact, you should welcome it!

Also a fair amount of people expect near-perfection from a segmented run. Obvious things like running into an enemy stick out, and should be commented on by verifiers. The people who didn't do you a disservice.
0-10
Quote from Zoid:
i am definitely not quitting speedrunning. i will still make some future runs. though i will not send them to SDA because i don't like the site and i don't like the rules of this site and it's entire system and because i am also not liked and not welcome here. i will upload my future runs anywhere else in the internet but sda. SDA is not all the entire speedrunning. speedrunning relies in our hearts and not in sda. i will continue speedrunning metroid prime because i am in love with the game and not with sda. i can still do speedrunning without sda. obviously i don't need sda.

Ok, we get it. You hate SDA. Take a pill. Could you please stop invoking drama llama powers? The internet is serious business, after all. Undecided

This sentence has been brought to you by Sarcasm™, your number one source of funny.

Not having seen the run, I'd wonder if the mistakes pointed out are as bad as claimed...
Wow zoid i didn't expect this. There are bound to be a few asshole verifiers out there but look at who else verified and didn't seem to have problems with the run. I see craztad(from m2k2) and Andrew(i assume this is Andrew Mills from m2k2) just glancing through the verifier responses, so out of anyone i pay attention to what they say more than anyone since ive seen both on m2k2 often and they know what goes into the run. If those two would have complained about particular bad spots in the run then i would think it actually was a little frustrating to watch. So when an asshole verifies and you see that he likely doesn't know what he is talking about you should probably just laugh and go on to the next response. On rare occasion an asshole will bring up a good point so they are not always a bad thing. In this particular case i don't really see this guy as a really bad asshole except for wanting to reject the run, he did point out the spots that could be done better and that is how i see it and that is kind of a verifiers job i think but when its a 20+ min improvement over the previous run it should be very hard to reject.
Mr. Twishall
I was the one who said that scanning the rune symbols was outdated...I wasn't aware that strategy had been obsoleted as it were. I've played this game pretty extensively and feel I can compentently verify a speedrun of it. On that point however, I was wrong, and I apologize.
That brings up a good point Thiradell. Are the verifiers allowed to ask the runner questions about the run freely or does it have to go through mike? Simple questions like "isn't this trick outdated" could probably be cleared up easily by the runner or other verifiers.

Actually when mike sends the message that has the verifier video info it probably has all the people he sent it to in the top of the message somewhere, it would probably be better to ask other verifiers about certain questions. But then i don't know if that would be accepted.
Who doesn't love YaBB 1G - SP1!
I don't know whats going on between zoid and the rest of the forum but come on guys, we're here to have fun right? Also separate catagory or not, it doesn't really matter to me. As for the runic gate thing, no problem Thiradell, people make mistakes and its not even a big one. You are putting time in verifying a speedrun and that should be respected. Also lets not focus to much on the mistakes I made. It almost sounds like my run is full of mistakes which is absolutely not true.
You got a deletion wish?
Quote from tate:
Are the verifiers allowed to ask the runner questions about the run freely or does it have to go through mike?


I think it has to go through Mike as the verifiers aren't supposed to have contact with the runner (for possibility of influence).  Maybe as long as they don't mention they're verifying.
My feelings on The Demon Rush
Tate: It goes through me, but I almost always just quote their posts (sans username, of course)
sinister1
so pro u don't even know
First of all, great runs Stefan, I really enjoyed watching them and appreciate how much hard work you put into them.

Second, Zoid I enjoy your runs very much and they were some of the first ones I watched on SDA. I can see why it would be upsetting if a verifier did not seem to understand how much work and how difficult it is to do a run like this. Gladly, he got overruled and that is why the verification system works, because its not just based on one person's opinion.

I think your standards for verfiers might be a bit high. You clearly have an intimate knowledge of Metroid Prime and the commensurate speedrunning experience and gameplay skills. You cannot possibly expect the verifiers to be on your level though, can you? For many submissions the player submitting the run is going to be more skilled/experienced in the game than the verifiers and there is no way to avoid that. People have to volunteer anyway, so if you do not get the ideal verifiers every time that would not surprise me at all. If you have ideas on improving the verification system please share them, because the admins here are very open to constructive feedback.
bläää
Some verifiers try to find the mistakes in the run of different reasons, sounds really bad sometimes.

Anyhowie, mostly just want to say that I enjoyed your runs Zoid and definately do not have anything against you and I think it would be sad if you do not want to send runs to this site in the future.
(user is banned)
Mario shrimp vs. The Fuzionator
i'd like to apologize to SDA about what i said. most of what i said was said out of anger. and i'm glad to hear some people enjoy my runs. of course i will send my future runs to sda.

and i'd like to congratulate stefan for his new runs. both runs are very good, especially the 22% 1:26 run rocks. it was really worth the 4 years of work. and i had been waiting so long to watch this run.

as for the verificaton: i would suggest to ask well known speedrunners of a game to verify a run. they surely know as much about the game as the runner himself. e.g. for stefan's new runs you could have asked me, or sparky, or kip, or pirate109, or trebor, or smilingjack13, or craztad, etc. to verify stefan's new runs because we (me and the other mentioned runners) all know as much about metroid prime as stefan himself.
AlphaStrategyGui des.com
I'd like to apologise for not getting the chance to verify Stefans SS run, I hadn't realised that I was sent a PM asking me to, until it was too late!  :-[ :-[

The thing with finding verifiers is that it's tough finding those who have a genuine in-depth knowledge of the game that's on the same level as the runner. Seasoned M2k2 goers are the obvious choice for any Metroid related runs, MegaMan forum goers for megaman games etc.

Verifiers will make mistakes, verifiers will - sometimes - piss off the runners with their comments and opinions. Such is life.