Megaman Network Transmission

2010-11-16 11:19:23 am

The Speedrunning Teacher

Time to work on another game that doesn't have a run yet.

Played this game over this last weekend and found that there is a good potential for speedrunning it. My casual playthrough clocked in at around 8 hours, but a lot of that was exploring around, trying to get as many power ups as I could. I suspect that this can be brought down to about 3 hours in a speedrun. I've only just started looking more in depth into it, but that how most of these threads start. I'll start with what info I have off the top of my head.

Most of the bosses are fairly easy with a few exceptions. Gutsman, Brightman, Starman, Zero, the Firewall, and the Life Virus provide some degree of difficulty for me.
-GutsMan is easy to dodge (just stay off the floor), but his attacks stun and as early as he is in the game, this can be problematic.
-BrightMan's problem for me is getting a good pattern down that lets me hit him and dodges his attack.
-StarMan isn't bad until he gets low on health and starts showering his stars all over the battlefield, making it hard to dodge (to the point where you WILL get hit).
-Zero is pretty easy to manipulate, but the issue with him is how hard he hits. He attacks with a three-hit combo or a pair of big sword waves that you can't dodge unless you're behind him.
-The issue with Firewall is managing health. The top and bottom cannons are annoying unless you destroy one (I usually destroyed the bottom one) then the other becomes manageable.
-The Life Virus isn't bad as long as I can properly learn his attacks. The hardest part about him is that Aura of his. Only attack chips that deal 100+ damage per hit drop the Aura. So some shopping or chip gathering will be needed before fighting it (I'm thinking MegaCannons, they're easy to collect).

I can see this game being done SS, but segmented is also an option. I'm going to start working on a segmented run of it, and then follow it up with some SS attempts. I imagine that the easiest place to segment will be after each boss battle. This would make it to 15 segments. The order that I imagine that the fights will go is FireMan, GutsMan, NeedleMan, BrightMan, IceMan, QuickMan, ColorMan, ElecMan, SwordMan, GravityMan, StarMan, Zero, ShadowMan, PharaohMan, and then the Life Virus. The only ones that can change the order completed is NeedleMan, BrightMan, IceMan, and QuickMan; ColorMan and ElecMan; ShadowMan and PharaohMan.

I'll add more later once I get more data.

Thread title:

Time to work on another game that doesn't have a run yet.

Played this game over this last weekend and found that there is a good potential for speedrunning it.  My casual playthrough clocked in at around 8 hours, but a lot of that was exploring around, trying to get as many power ups as I could.  I suspect that this can be brought down to about 3 hours in a speedrun.  I've only just started looking more in depth into it, but that how most of these threads start.  I'll start with what info I have off the top of my head.

Most of the bosses are fairly easy with a few exceptions.  Gutsman, Brightman, Starman, Zero, the Firewall, and the Life Virus provide some degree of difficulty for me.
-GutsMan is easy to dodge (just stay off the floor), but his attacks stun and as early as he is in the game, this can be problematic.
-BrightMan's problem for me is getting a good pattern down that lets me hit him and dodges his attack.
-StarMan isn't bad until he gets low on health and starts showering his stars all over the battlefield, making it hard to dodge (to the point where you WILL get hit).
-Zero is pretty easy to manipulate, but the issue with him is how hard he hits.  He attacks with a three-hit combo or a pair of big sword waves that you can't dodge unless you're behind him.
-The issue with Firewall is managing health.  The top and bottom cannons are annoying unless you destroy one (I usually destroyed the bottom one) then the other becomes manageable.
-The Life Virus isn't bad as long as I can properly learn his attacks.  The hardest part about him is that Aura of his.  Only attack chips that deal 100+ damage per hit drop the Aura.  So some shopping or chip gathering will be needed before fighting it (I'm thinking MegaCannons, they're easy to collect).

I can see this game being done SS, but segmented is also an option.  I'm going to start working on a segmented run of it, and then follow it up with some SS attempts.  I imagine that the easiest place to segment will be after each boss battle.  This would make it to 15 segments.  The order that I imagine that the fights will go is FireMan, GutsMan, NeedleMan, BrightMan, IceMan, QuickMan, ColorMan, ElecMan, SwordMan, GravityMan, StarMan, Zero, ShadowMan, PharaohMan, and then the Life Virus.  The only ones that can change the order completed is NeedleMan, BrightMan, IceMan, and QuickMan; ColorMan and ElecMan; ShadowMan and PharaohMan.

I'll add more later once I get more data.

65

2010-11-16 12:09:13 pm

I would be most eager to see a run of this game. I've never managed to beat the game, with all it's trial and error stages and punishing bosses.

I do agree there's a lot of running potential in this game, though; the controls are solid and with proper weapons the bosses go down fast, at least as far as I got in the game. The game play can be flashy, too, which is nice. I'd imagine luck will be a huge factor in running this (with the semi-random weapons and all). As such I'd say segmented is indeed the way to go, at least at the start.

Invisibility makes the bosses very easy, I hear; you can just spam your buster weapon and not worry about getting hit. I'm not sure if it works simultaneously with other weapons, but it's definitely worth looking into... although, considering it's quite obvious, I'm sure you already know that. Anyway, picking up invisibilities would probably be useful if they're not too out of the way.

How many power-ups are you planning to get? Not sure if low% is possible, but 100% should be (technically) possible... as for what it would require exactly, I can't say because I never finished the game, of course.

I'm very much looking forward to this, and I wish you all the luck you can get.

I would be most eager to see a run of this game. I've never managed to beat the game, with all it's trial and error stages and punishing bosses.

I do agree there's a lot of running potential in this game, though; the controls are solid and with proper weapons the bosses go down fast, at least as far as I got in the game. The game play can be flashy, too, which is nice. I'd imagine luck will be a huge factor in running this (with the semi-random weapons and all). As such I'd say segmented is indeed the way to go, at least at the start.

Invisibility makes the bosses very easy, I hear; you can just spam your buster weapon and not worry about getting hit. I'm not sure if it works simultaneously with other weapons, but it's definitely worth looking into... although, considering it's quite obvious, I'm sure you already know that. Anyway, picking up invisibilities would probably be useful if they're not too out of the way.

How many power-ups are you planning to get? Not sure if low% is possible, but 100% should be (technically) possible... as for what it would require exactly, I can't say because I never finished the game, of course.

I'm very much looking forward to this, and I wish you all the luck you can get.

Zyre

2010-11-16 04:48:29 pm

The Speedrunning Teacher

Not sure how many power-ups to get yet. I know that HP and MP increases will be useful to nab, but I'd like to see how far I can get before needing to gather some. I'm debating on buster power-ups as well as where to increase. Charge can be useful when maxed out since you can get a fully charged shot in 2 seconds, but it won't deal much damage unless you increase Power as well. Rapid decreases the amount of time that needs to pass before you can fire another normal shot. I think that to start I won't get any of the buster power-ups and see how far I can get.

As for the low%/100% definitions, I think that it would only involve the armors, buster power-ups, back-up chips, and HP/MP/Reg increases. Getting all the chips would take a while and some of them are based on luck. Not to mention that some only drop from bosses (which means fighting them again in the simulator). A low % run wouldn't get any HP/MP/Reg increases, buster power-ups, back-up chips (except for one that you MAY be able to skip at the beginning, on your way to the first passcode, testing will be required), and would only get the Fire armor (since you are forced to take it). I think there are exceptions in items that you get from the emails (which afaik you are required to read them all).

Honestly, I didn't use Invisibility. It never crossed my mind. I'll look into that and see if that makes some fights easier.

Not sure how many power-ups to get yet.  I know that HP and MP increases will be useful to nab, but I'd like to see how far I can get before needing to gather some.  I'm debating on buster power-ups as well as where to increase.  Charge can be useful when maxed out since you can get a fully charged shot in 2 seconds, but it won't deal much damage unless you increase Power as well.  Rapid decreases the amount of time that needs to pass before you can fire another normal shot.  I think that to start I won't get any of the buster power-ups and see how far I can get.

As for the low%/100% definitions, I think that it would only involve the armors, buster power-ups, back-up chips, and HP/MP/Reg increases.  Getting all the chips would take a while and some of them are based on luck.  Not to mention that some only drop from bosses (which means fighting them again in the simulator).  A low % run wouldn't get any HP/MP/Reg increases, buster power-ups, back-up chips (except for one that you MAY be able to skip at the beginning, on your way to the first passcode, testing will be required), and would only get the Fire armor (since you are forced to take it).  I think there are exceptions in items that you get from the emails (which afaik you are required to read them all).

Honestly, I didn't use Invisibility.  It never crossed my mind.  I'll look into that and see if that makes some fights easier.

Sir VG

2010-11-16 05:47:23 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Good luck. I thought about it, but trying to play this game with a GCN controller is awful.

65

2010-11-16 06:12:17 pm

I don't see the point of getting the backups for 100%, they're a depletable resource, effectively extra lives. The cards, however, might be something that's necessary for 100%. The amount of cards you've ever had out of total is counted, right? Yeah, a 100% run might take a while, but that's how it works sometimes. I doubt it'd even go beyond the "soft" max limit we have here.

As for buster power-ups, I'd go out on a limb and say if you're getting any, Power is the number one choice because charging takes ages and rapid fire advantage is only marginal. I could be wrong about the latter, of course, but I'm pretty sure charging up is a waste of time unless you manage to charge it between and while using card weapons.

MP could be useful; you can use better weapons when the MP exceeds their minimum cost or something, right?

Garlyle

Edit history:

Garlyle: 2011-01-12 08:24:07 pm

Garlyle: 2011-01-12 05:39:26 pm

Garlyle: 2011-01-12 05:31:03 pm

2011-01-12 05:19:31 pm

That Guy

Oh man, I'm not the only one interested in speedrunning this?

Zyre, are you still attempting this at all? I'd be more than willing to help things out.

On the matter of a 100% completion:
*All HP Memories, MP upgrades that I can't remember the name of right now, RegMemories, and power ups are rather obvious.
*Backup chips count too, I'd imagine - they're not expendable like normal extra lives, but are rather an upgrade to your maximum lives count.
*The game does show how many chips you have out of the possible max, so I'd imagine that would be counted. Optimally I'd imagine a 100% run to include getting all Navi chips and fighting Bass.

On the matter of what to collect outside of that, just quick thoughts:
*Chips: Double Jumps would be essential; I'd have to find out how many are needed though. It might put IceMan earlier in the run if there's a skip in Needleman/Elecman's stages, although I don't think there is; IceMan's easy enough even if he does have to be put earlier though. As for other stuff, you'd need to collect a lot of 100-damage-or-more chips during the course of the game for the final stage (The first ones are available from elemental Swordians, I think; Numberman also sells Goldfists at the end of the game if worse comes to worse). Prior to that, stocking up on cannons and even Minibombs might be great (Minibombs are ridiculously powerful). I'll have to do more experimenting on things.
*HP Memories in a segmented run would probably not be needed, although you might pick up one or two that are barely out of your way; I'd have to measure the damage endgame enemies do, because being able to take a spare hit might make everything so much easier. Obviously not getting hit would make it irrelevant, but unlike other Mega Man games, enemy damage keeps going up the farther you get, and it takes some spot-on timing sometimes to dodge stuff in this game, especially in the end; the final stage without extra HP would be monstrous.
*MP upgrades would be a necessity. If not solely for the ability to use the double jump skips, you'd also need it for endgame offense - chips strong enough to break the auras would require a lot of MP as well to use without having to wait around. It -might- be possible to get around this using MP recovery subchips. That is dependant on money, which you wouldn't have a whole lot of in a speedrun.
*RegUps would be unnecessary in a segmented run, but would be basically necessary in a segmented run. This is because you can go for luck in segmented runs; in a single-segment, you'd be changing your default chip at a few points (especially to/from double jump) in order to ensure you have the most essential chip. I can't remember right now if opening the folder and changing your default chip mid-stage resets your custom gauge; if it doesn't, it could be done quickly before bosses in a single-segment to ensure you have the best chip for fighting them.
*PowerUps probably wouldn't be too useful unless 8 of them can be collected with minimum issue. The reason I say that, is that Charge 5 is extremely fast, and does 10x[power] damage - max power and max charge makes using normal chips irrelevant up until the point where enemies have auras (because it won't be able to break them). I'd have to look into how soon/easily they can be collected, however.
*Program Advances: I doubt you'd use any due to the luck manipulation required; but with that said, Z-Cannon absolutely wrecks Bass and I suspect it would wreck any other boss in the game if you pull it out against them. It would only be usable in theory from Gravityman's stage onwards (Since Gravityman is where you find the third-level cannon), but I can see it making Zero and especially the Life Virus way the heck easier if a method can be found to involve it.

I can tell you right now; I've beaten the game in four hours relatively easily - done right, it's only fifteen stages, which is longer than other MM games, but not by a huge amount. I'm going to try speedrunning this segmented over the next few days, make some notes, and see what happens.

Oh man, I'm not the only one interested in speedrunning this?

Zyre, are you still attempting this at all?  I'd be more than willing to help things out.

On the matter of a 100% completion:
*All HP Memories, MP upgrades that I can't remember the name of right now, RegMemories, and power ups are rather obvious.
*Backup chips count too, I'd imagine - they're not expendable like normal extra lives, but are rather an upgrade to your maximum lives count.
*The game does show how many chips you have out of the possible max, so I'd imagine that would be counted.  Optimally I'd imagine a 100% run to include getting all Navi chips and fighting Bass.

On the matter of what to collect outside of that, just quick thoughts:
*Chips: Double Jumps would be essential; I'd have to find out how many are needed though.  It might put IceMan earlier in the run if there's a skip in Needleman/Elecman's stages, although I don't think there is; IceMan's easy enough even if he does have to be put earlier though.  As for other stuff, you'd need to collect a lot of 100-damage-or-more chips during the course of the game for the final stage (The first ones are available from elemental Swordians, I think; Numberman also sells Goldfists at the end of the game if worse comes to worse).  Prior to that, stocking up on cannons and even Minibombs might be great (Minibombs are ridiculously powerful).  I'll have to do more experimenting on things.
*HP Memories in a segmented run would probably not be needed, although you might pick up one or two that are barely out of your way; I'd have to measure the damage endgame enemies do, because being able to take a spare hit might make everything so much easier.  Obviously not getting hit would make it irrelevant, but unlike other Mega Man games, enemy damage keeps going up the farther you get, and it takes some spot-on timing sometimes to dodge stuff in this game, especially in the end; the final stage without extra HP would be monstrous.
*MP upgrades would be a necessity.  If not solely for the ability to use the double jump skips, you'd also need it for endgame offense - chips strong enough to break the auras would require a lot of MP as well to use without having to wait around.  It -might- be possible to get around this using MP recovery subchips.  That is dependant on money, which you wouldn't have a whole lot of in a speedrun.
*RegUps would be unnecessary in a segmented run, but would be basically necessary in a segmented run.  This is because you can go for luck in segmented runs; in a single-segment, you'd be changing your default chip at a few points (especially to/from double jump) in order to ensure you have the most essential chip.  I can't remember right now if opening the folder and changing your default chip mid-stage resets your custom gauge; if it doesn't, it could be done quickly before bosses in a single-segment to ensure you have the best chip for fighting them.
*PowerUps probably wouldn't be too useful unless 8 of them can be collected with minimum issue.  The reason I say that, is that Charge 5 is extremely fast, and does 10x[power] damage - max power and max charge makes using normal chips irrelevant up until the point where enemies have auras (because it won't be able to break them).  I'd have to look into how soon/easily they can be collected, however.
*Program Advances: I doubt you'd use any due to the luck manipulation required; but with that said, Z-Cannon absolutely wrecks Bass and I suspect it would wreck any other boss in the game if you pull it out against them.  It would only be usable in theory from Gravityman's stage onwards (Since Gravityman is where you find the third-level cannon), but I can see it making Zero and especially the Life Virus way the heck easier if a method can be found to involve it.

I can tell you right now; I've beaten the game in four hours relatively easily - done right, it's only fifteen stages, which is longer than other MM games, but not by a huge amount.  I'm going to try speedrunning this segmented over the next few days, make some notes, and see what happens.

Zyre

2011-01-13 12:06:45 am

The Speedrunning Teacher

Thanks for the input Garlyle. I'm looking forward to the information that you can gather to help me out. I haven't given up on this yet, other projects have taken a little more priority at the moment, but soon I imagine I'll be able to return to this. In terms of what I'd like to work on first, it would be a segmented any% run, as that will be the easiest to create/work on and make a nice base for later runs.

Garlyle

Edit history:

Garlyle: 2011-01-13 08:50:11 pm

Garlyle: 2011-01-13 08:46:05 pm

Garlyle: 2011-01-13 08:38:40 pm

Garlyle: 2011-01-13 07:45:16 pm

Garlyle: 2011-01-13 07:27:56 pm

Garlyle: 2011-01-13 10:54:52 am

Garlyle: 2011-01-13 10:52:15 am

Garlyle: 2011-01-13 10:45:00 am

Garlyle: 2011-01-13 10:22:15 am

Garlyle: 2011-01-13 10:08:50 am

2011-01-13 10:07:01 am

That Guy

After running repeatedly into walls last night as early as GutsMan's stage, I can definitely say that an Any% Segmented run is definitely the easiest. Doing a single-segment of this game without deaths later on would be ridiculous even if you took your time; I'm feeling fairly certain that my assesment of this being the hardest Mega Man game to speedrun might be right.

Also, I realised that collecting MP Upgrades early is also of major importance; I forgot that the regeneration rate is based on a percentage - the higher your MP cap goes, the faster you recover the amount used for small chips. Given that I can already get going fast enough on the first segment to run out of MP just using Cannons (which are cheap as heck), having faster regeneration is definitely something that will help, even if you have to lose about 10 seconds for the earliest ones.

My time as of beating FireMan is 0:07, but I'm pretty sure a lot of improvement could be made, probably enough to push it down to 0:06. I haven't yet succeeded on a test Gutsman segment, not even a mildly sloppy one, yet.

Observations so far, up to GutsMan's stage.
*Yes. Sliding is indeed faster than running; all other forms of movement are, I think, exactly equal in terms of speed. Jumping onto a ladder and then climbing is faster too. Finally, pounding on A&B alternatingly to skip text seems to be the fastest way
*For the purposes of a single-segment, you could use a trick to manipulate your draws: When the gauge is full, open the menu and folder. The game will warn you that you'll be returning your chips; that's okay - just set a new default chip and then back out, and open the chip selection screen. Since the gauge doesn't decrease, this will let you guarantee one chip that you have enough regular memory for, which I suspect could save your ass a few times in a single-segment - and even in a segmented run it helps you get around some of the luck necessary.
*You can have four Memory Up by the time you fight Gutsman; Den Area 2 and Global Net 1 both have relatively easy-access ones you don't have to go much out of your way for (only lose about 6 seconds each, I think?). If you collect 1500z from each of the first two stages before reaching Numberman (Which I did, but just barely), you can buy two more upgrades from him.
*The first PowerUp is in stage 2 and it's right on the path you normally take anyway. You can get a second one (actually it's a moment beforehand) from NumberMan, for a price equal to the second Memory Up you'd buy, if you choose to go the PowerUp route. I'm beginning to lean towards PowerUp; bustering really does make a huge difference, would let you save tonnes of MP for DoubleJumps in later levels, and not having bosses flinch when you damage them with a charged buster shot makes some bosses easier (Pharaohman for instance), while others are better looped with chips (Shadowman)
*Cannons can be gathered in large numbers during the first segment, restocking them as you go; your initial draw is more to find stuff to stave off completely using them up. Setting them to default at the start of segment 2 gives you a huge arsenal and, if you draw bombs and a sword, can get you all the way to GutsMan.
*You can skip the initial backup chip easily. I'm not sure yet if you can skip the message that appears when you -almost- collect it though, but it might be possible with perfect precision.
*Minibomb and Lil'bomb can one-shot the hound midbosses in both stage 1 and 2; two Bubbler shots can also do it, but if you draw bubbler in stage 1 you'll want to save it for FireMan. If you've never used the bombs in this game, their hitbox can damage enemies repeatedly - meaning they do way more than 50 damage to anything without flinch invisibility (read: any enemy/miniboss without an aura). Minibombs can be bought super-cheap from Higureya and do hilarious things to some of the minibosses (Specifically IceMan's) and can even tear through late-game enemies.
*Optimum speed draw for FireMan fight would probably involve bubblers and swords to do 80 damage per hit, for a total of five hits. Wrecker also works, but it consumes huge MP and is slow to connection time, and given that FireMan defends himself during invincibility, it'd slow you down. You could also pray to draw a LifeSword1 (Sword>WideSwrd>LongSwrd) to shave off an instant 200 damage, but that's very unlikely and it still won't kill him by itself; you'd still need to draw two bubblers and one other attack chip to take him out after.
*I have no clue what would be optimum for GutsMan. I'm betting swords, but that's an extremely risky strategy because of the heavy damage he does. Still, he's got an unfair 600 HP to mine through, and you should have recieved several various sword chip drops in the process of doing the stage leading up to him, so you should have more than enough; it's just a matter of MP, as you're likely running low after the rest of this level (It's longer than the first) and Wide/LongSwrd costs 16 MP instead of 8.
*Invis might have been a great idea for bosses, but Invis1 at least requires you to go back to previous areas. If you decide to go get any Invis at all... you'll probably want to be doing it during the start of the GutsMan segment as a detour, as I don't think there's any other time you're in the area.

EDIT: GutsMan's stage clear, total time is 0:13 minutes so far. If levels continue at this pace (And honestly I think the first two stages might be the longest?), the target time might be sub-2:00. It is now time to begin experimentation on the route split @_@

EDIT 2: Accidental discovery for the Firewall fight: Using the Zero summon right in front of the firewall hits the bottom turret multiple times, destroying it instantly. The boss rush also made me remember that fully charged buster + chips = massive speedup in damage output. ALSO: the seedbomb-tree-wood things are able to destroy Brightman. I can give details if you want; but it's a really safe and effective strategy and possibly the fastest.

After running repeatedly into walls last night as early as GutsMan's stage, I can definitely say that an Any% Segmented run is definitely the easiest.  Doing a single-segment of this game without deaths later on would be ridiculous even if you took your time; I'm feeling fairly certain that my assesment of this being the hardest Mega Man game to speedrun might be right.

Also, I realised that collecting MP Upgrades early is also of major importance; I forgot that the regeneration rate is based on a percentage - the higher your MP cap goes, the faster you recover the amount used for small chips.  Given that I can already get going fast enough on the first segment to run out of MP just using Cannons (which are cheap as heck), having faster regeneration is definitely something that will help, even if you have to lose about 10 seconds for the earliest ones.

My time as of beating FireMan is 0:07, but I'm pretty sure a lot of improvement could be made, probably enough to push it down to 0:06.  I haven't yet succeeded on a test Gutsman segment, not even a mildly sloppy one, yet.

Observations so far, up to GutsMan's stage.
*Yes.  Sliding is indeed faster than running; all other forms of movement are, I think, exactly equal in terms of speed.  Jumping onto a ladder and then climbing is faster too.  Finally, pounding on A&B alternatingly to skip text seems to be the fastest way
*For the purposes of a single-segment, you could use a trick to manipulate your draws: When the gauge is full, open the menu and folder.  The game will warn you that you'll be returning your chips; that's okay - just set a new default chip and then back out, and open the chip selection screen.  Since the gauge doesn't decrease, this will let you guarantee one chip that you have enough regular memory for, which I suspect could save your ass a few times in a single-segment - and even in a segmented run it helps you get around some of the luck necessary.
*You can have four Memory Up by the time you fight Gutsman; Den Area 2 and Global Net 1 both have relatively easy-access ones you don't have to go much out of your way for (only lose about 6 seconds each, I think?).  If you collect 1500z from each of the first two stages before reaching Numberman (Which I did, but just barely), you can buy two more upgrades from him.
*The first PowerUp is in stage 2 and it's right on the path you normally take anyway.  You can get a second one (actually it's a moment beforehand) from NumberMan, for a price equal to the second Memory Up you'd buy, if you choose to go the PowerUp route.  I'm beginning to lean towards PowerUp; bustering really does make a huge difference, would let you save tonnes of MP for DoubleJumps in later levels, and not having bosses flinch when you damage them with a charged buster shot makes some bosses easier (Pharaohman for instance), while others are better looped with chips (Shadowman)
*Cannons can be gathered in large numbers during the first segment, restocking them as you go; your initial draw is more to find stuff to stave off completely using them up.  Setting them to default at the start of segment 2 gives you a huge arsenal and, if you draw bombs and a sword, can get you all the way to GutsMan.
*You can skip the initial backup chip easily.  I'm not sure yet if you can skip the message that appears when you -almost- collect it though, but it might be possible with perfect precision.
*Minibomb and Lil'bomb can one-shot the hound midbosses in both stage 1 and 2; two Bubbler shots can also do it, but if you draw bubbler in stage 1 you'll want to save it for FireMan.  If you've never used the bombs in this game, their hitbox can damage enemies repeatedly - meaning they do way more than 50 damage to anything without flinch invisibility (read: any enemy/miniboss without an aura).  Minibombs can be bought super-cheap from Higureya and do hilarious things to some of the minibosses (Specifically IceMan's) and can even tear through late-game enemies.
*Optimum speed draw for FireMan fight would probably involve bubblers and swords to do 80 damage per hit, for a total of five hits.  Wrecker also works, but it consumes huge MP and is slow to connection time, and given that FireMan defends himself during invincibility, it'd slow you down.  You could also pray to draw a LifeSword1 (Sword>WideSwrd>LongSwrd) to shave off an instant 200 damage, but that's very unlikely and it still won't kill him by itself; you'd still need to draw two bubblers and one other attack chip to take him out after.
*I have no clue what would be optimum for GutsMan.  I'm betting swords, but that's an extremely risky strategy because of the heavy damage he does.  Still, he's got an unfair 600 HP to mine through, and you should have recieved several various sword chip drops in the process of doing the stage leading up to him, so you should have more than enough; it's just a matter of MP, as you're likely running low after the rest of this level (It's longer than the first) and Wide/LongSwrd costs 16 MP instead of 8.
*Invis might have been a great idea for bosses, but Invis1 at least requires you to go back to previous areas.  If you decide to go get any Invis at all... you'll probably want to be doing it during the start of the GutsMan segment as a detour, as I don't think there's any other time you're in the area.

EDIT: GutsMan's stage clear, total time is 0:13 minutes so far.  If levels continue at this pace (And honestly I think the first two stages might be the longest?), the target time might be sub-2:00.  It is now time to begin experimentation on the route split @_@

EDIT 2: Accidental discovery for the Firewall fight: Using the Zero summon right in front of the firewall hits the bottom turret multiple times, destroying it instantly.  The boss rush also made me remember that fully charged buster + chips = massive speedup in damage output.  ALSO: the seedbomb-tree-wood things are able to destroy Brightman.  I can give details if you want; but it's a really safe and effective strategy and possibly the fastest.

Zyre

Edit history:

Zyre: 2011-01-13 10:02:31 pm

2011-01-13 10:02:22 pm

The Speedrunning Teacher

Quote from Garlyle:

EDIT 2: Accidental discovery for the Firewall fight: Using the Zero summon right in front of the firewall hits the bottom turret multiple times, destroying it instantly. The boss rush also made me remember that fully charged buster + chips = massive speedup in damage output. ALSO: the seedbomb-tree-wood things are able to destroy Brightman. I can give details if you want; but it's a really safe and effective strategy and possibly the fastest.

Good stuff. With Brightman, I imagine you got him into a pattern that let you hit him with the tree bombs?

Garlyle

Edit history:

Garlyle: 2011-01-14 12:08:45 am

Garlyle: 2011-01-13 11:56:27 pm

2011-01-13 11:53:19 pm

That Guy

Yeah. The pattern is basically to stand about a mega-man length away (I'm just guessing here, you'll have to try it yourself). Jump into the air and throw the bomb, and fire a normal buster shot on the way back down. The buster shot will trigger him to block or block-and-jump; but he's vulneurable immediately after the shield is put up. If he attacks, I'm not entirely sure if you'll be able to dodge the counter; but he'll be hit - if he jumps, he'll just land on the seed and take full damage as normal. I'm moderately certain you might be able to trick Elecman in a similar fashion, although Spice chips might work better for that if they work the way I remember them working.

Also, the treeseeds are fantastic for taking down auras in a pinch, as even the first level variant is 100 damage, although they're better for the Zero Account ones due to their higher vertical positioning (other options are faster for ground targets). Collecting several during Needleman's stage is advised. Between those, AquaSwords from Higsby, Satellite3s from ElecMan's stage (or was it StarMan's?), SilverFists from NumberMan (He can be easily visited again when going to Pharaohman without losing much time), M-Cannons from GravityMan and onwards, etc. etc., there should be more than enough to take care of the various aura enemies in the Zero Account and the Undernet. A full set of Silverfists was more than enough for me to take down the Life Virus when completing another file earlier.

Anyway, I looked it up. PowerUps definitely seem to be a good idea (I think a fully charged 5-power is actually 75 damage, though I might be wrong; either way it's great), but getting them early might take a side trip. There's apparently one in Den Area 2, which I believe you need to have double jumps for. Other than that, if you were to return to Numberman at some later point, you should be able to have all eight by the end of ElecMan and ColorMan's stages, giving you full reign to buster the crap out of things from then on. The only question would be whether or not the extra trip to visit NumberMan would save you the extra time between MP conservation and some boss speedups. As said above, you can stop by him really quickly on your way to Pharaohman later on, which might help... it's worth a little bit of experimentation and thought. You'd definitely want it for Pharaohman, as killing him with the buster prevents the counter-summon when hit.

Also, finally: There's only one skip in NeedleMan's stage with DoubleJump (Saves about 10 seconds at the beginning); none of the other stages in that group have double jump skips, meaning tackling IceMan after BrightMan and NeedleMan should almost certainly be the faster strategy.

EDIT: Ohhhh snap there are level maps on GameFAQs

Yeah.  The pattern is basically to stand about a mega-man length away (I'm just guessing here, you'll have to try it yourself).  Jump into the air and throw the bomb, and fire a normal buster shot on the way back down.  The buster shot will trigger him to block or block-and-jump; but he's vulneurable immediately after the shield is put up.  If he attacks, I'm not entirely sure if you'll be able to dodge the counter; but he'll be hit - if he jumps, he'll just land on the seed and take full damage as normal.  I'm moderately certain you might be able to trick Elecman in a similar fashion, although Spice chips might work better for that if they work the way I remember them working.

Also, the treeseeds are fantastic for taking down auras in a pinch, as even the first level variant is 100 damage, although they're better for the Zero Account ones due to their higher vertical positioning (other options are faster for ground targets).  Collecting several during Needleman's stage is advised.  Between those, AquaSwords from Higsby, Satellite3s from ElecMan's stage (or was it StarMan's?), SilverFists from NumberMan (He can be easily visited again when going to Pharaohman without losing much time), M-Cannons from GravityMan and onwards, etc. etc., there should be more than enough to take care of the various aura enemies in the Zero Account and the Undernet.  A full set of Silverfists was more than enough for me to take down the Life Virus when completing another file earlier.

Anyway, I looked it up.  PowerUps definitely seem to be a good idea (I think a fully charged 5-power is actually 75 damage, though I might be wrong; either way it's great), but getting them early might take a side trip.  There's apparently one in Den Area 2, which I believe you need to have double jumps for.  Other than that, if you were to return to Numberman at some later point, you should be able to have all eight by the end of ElecMan and ColorMan's stages, giving you full reign to buster the crap out of things from then on.  The only question would be whether or not the extra trip to visit NumberMan would save you the extra time between MP conservation and some boss speedups.  As said above, you can stop by him really quickly on your way to Pharaohman later on, which might help... it's worth a little bit of experimentation and thought.  You'd definitely want it for Pharaohman, as killing him with the buster prevents the counter-summon when hit.

Also, finally: There's only one skip in NeedleMan's stage with DoubleJump (Saves about 10 seconds at the beginning); none of the other stages in that group have double jump skips, meaning tackling IceMan after BrightMan and NeedleMan should almost certainly be the faster strategy.

EDIT: Ohhhh snap there are level maps on GameFAQs

Zyre

2011-01-15 09:41:17 am

The Speedrunning Teacher

Alright, how about some good news?

I mentioned before that I'm working on another project and that I'll get going on this one as soon as I finish, right? Well, it's looking like I'll have the other project finished Friday. Not much longer...then I'll be working on this a fair bit. XD

As part of the celebration (yes, for me it will be a celebration), I'm thinking I'll stream my work on it. I'll post more details once we get closer to Friday.

Garlyle

2011-01-15 04:08:20 pm

That Guy

Oh sweet! Looking forward to that!

I'll keep digging around once I'm out of my work days again and see what else I can figure out in advance.

Zeo

2011-01-17 12:50:27 pm

A few notes from my play through of this game, although it was 7 years ago so confirm these before you waste your time trying them on a live run.

I think Iceman is able to freeze Zero. Since ice man should be easy to beat by the time you have to deal with Zero, might be wise to have a few iceman chips. I think it only took me three tries to beat Zero the first time.

Some one already said it, but its worth repeating. INVISIBLE ARE A HUGE GAME BREAKER. Not only are they good for bosses, but If i remember correctly I used them to run through levels without having to fight. the main problem is they are short lived.

Gutsman, Brightman, Starman, Zero, the Firewall, and the Life Virus.

Gutsman is a typical tank. he hits hard, and takes a lot of punishment, but he's slow. if you can do the regular cannon PA, you should be fine.

Brightman. I don't remember him. which means I must have blasted his butt. I;d try typical Battle Network strats on him though, namely come in there with every wood chip you have and just unload the forest of death upon him.

Star man: I vaguely remember him being a PITA.

Zero: mentioned above

Firewall Some one already said it, Zero it. I recommend following up Zero with a N avi that hits flying targets.

Life Virus: IF I remember correctly, MM's charge shot, at full power, will destroy the aura, then Zero him., and so forth. I strongly advise again PA's though. i don't think any of them freeze time, so its hard ot hit him with those.

lemme look at some videos since i don't have access to the game ATM, and I'll see what i can remember and figure out for you..

A few notes from my play through of this game, although it was 7 years ago so confirm these before you waste your time trying them on a live run.

I think Iceman is able to freeze Zero.  Since ice man should be easy to beat by  the time you have to deal with Zero, might be wise to have a few iceman chips.  I think it only took me three tries to beat Zero the first time.

Some one already said it, but its worth repeating.  INVISIBLE ARE A HUGE GAME BREAKER.  Not only are they good for bosses, but If i remember correctly I used them to run through levels without having to fight.  the main problem is they are short lived.

Gutsman, Brightman, Starman, Zero, the Firewall, and the Life Virus.

Gutsman is a typical tank. he hits hard, and takes a lot of punishment, but he's slow.  if you can do the regular cannon PA, you should be fine.

Brightman.  I don't remember him.  which means I must have blasted his butt.  I;d try typical Battle Network strats on him though, namely come in there with every wood chip you have and just unload the forest of death upon him.

Star man: I vaguely remember him being a PITA.

Zero: mentioned above

Firewall  Some one already said it, Zero it.   I recommend following up Zero with a N avi that hits flying targets.

Life Virus:  IF I remember correctly, MM's charge shot, at full power, will destroy the aura, then Zero him., and so forth.  I strongly advise again PA's though.  i don't think any of them freeze time, so its hard ot hit him with those.

lemme look at some videos since i don't have access to the game ATM, and I'll see what i can remember and figure out for you..

Garlyle

Edit history:

Garlyle: 2011-01-17 10:53:04 pm

Garlyle: 2011-01-17 10:50:57 pm

Garlyle: 2011-01-17 10:50:05 pm

2011-01-17 10:48:47 pm

That Guy

Invisible are indeed ridiculously powerful; the problem is actually OBTAINING them. The first ones are available in Den Area 3, but that's only after Net on Fire - which means you're taking a detour to collect them. It's also very difficult to get them, due to the viri's tendencies to heal and avoid attacks (Which reduces busting rank and the chances of you getting the chip), and not only that but any given time you kill them, you're not guaranteed an invis chip - you might get recovery chips instead. The only other place I can think of invis viruses showing up are Shadowman and Pharaohman's stages to boot, and while they're pretty on-the-way there, they are also going to be pretty tough to take down and again you'd only have it for the endgame. So it's a question if Invis chips will save you enough time later on to make up for having to take a large detour to collect them.

On Gutsman: I think you're mixing up Network Transmission's PAs with the others. You can't have Z-Canon when fighting Gutsman, it's impossible; at the EARLIEST you could get it in ColorMan's stage by getting crazy lucky on the slots; if not, you'd have to wait until GravityMan.

On Brightman: He can't just be roflstomped. He blocks attacks and then counterattacks, and wood attacks don't have free piercing against that. Fortunately the TreeSeedWoodBomb thing strategy I mentioned above should be able to take him down with relative ease.

Zero: I don't think the time needed to refight Ice Man (which would probably only be about 20-30 seconds each, what with after-battle animations, etc.) would make it worthwhile to grab that chip. If money was an issue, it might be an idea - however, I don't expect it to be, as most purchasing will probably be done very lategame and the bosses and stages give you more than enough if you don't spend frivolously.

Life Virus: I am 99% sure Megaman's charge shot won't take down auras. I don't think it can take down ANY aura, actually, which is why 100-damage chips are necessary. Several PAs do freeze time, but even the ones that don't would have use - Z-Canon, for instance, is several seconds of invincibility and an infinite-use 100-damage cannon, which would probably tear Life Virus' first phase apart. I'll have to check, but if it could be managed due to the game's randomness, pulling out a PA against Life Virus would almost certainly be the fastest way to take him down. It might not be necessary though - I have to test how frequently he takes damage, because pelting him with bombs might bring him down crazy fast as well and not leave you dry for chips for the second phase, which I need to test better as well @_@

Invisible are indeed ridiculously powerful; the problem is actually OBTAINING them.  The first ones are available in Den Area 3, but that's only after Net on Fire - which means you're taking a detour to collect them.  It's also very difficult to get them, due to the viri's tendencies to heal and avoid attacks (Which reduces busting rank and the chances of you getting the chip), and not only that but any given time you kill them, you're not guaranteed an invis chip - you might get recovery chips instead.  The only other place I can think of invis viruses showing up are Shadowman and Pharaohman's stages to boot, and while they're pretty on-the-way there, they are also going to be pretty tough to take down and again you'd only have it for the endgame.  So it's a question if Invis chips will save you enough time later on to make up for having to take a large detour to collect them.

On Gutsman: I think you're mixing up Network Transmission's PAs with the others.  You can't have Z-Canon when fighting Gutsman, it's impossible; at the EARLIEST you could get it in ColorMan's stage by getting crazy lucky on the slots; if not, you'd have to wait until GravityMan.

On Brightman: He can't just be roflstomped.  He blocks attacks and then counterattacks, and wood attacks don't have free piercing against that.  Fortunately the TreeSeedWoodBomb thing strategy I mentioned above should be able to take him down with relative ease.

Zero: I don't think the time needed to refight Ice Man (which would probably only be about 20-30 seconds each, what with after-battle animations, etc.) would make it worthwhile to grab that chip.  If money was an issue, it might be an idea - however, I don't expect it to be, as most purchasing will probably be done very lategame and the bosses and stages give you more than enough if you don't spend frivolously.

Life Virus: I am 99% sure Megaman's charge shot won't take down auras.  I don't think it can take down ANY aura, actually, which is why 100-damage chips are necessary.  Several PAs do freeze time, but even the ones that don't would have use - Z-Canon, for instance, is several seconds of invincibility and an infinite-use 100-damage cannon, which would probably tear Life Virus' first phase apart.  I'll have to check, but if it could be managed due to the game's randomness, pulling out a PA against Life Virus would almost certainly be the fastest way to take him down.  It might not be necessary though - I have to test how frequently he takes damage, because pelting him with bombs might bring him down crazy fast as well and not leave you dry for chips for the second phase, which I need to test better as well @_@

Zyre

2011-01-18 10:23:41 am

The Speedrunning Teacher

Megaman's fully charged shot won't be enough to take down auras. With a maxed out Power and Charge stats, it will only deal 50 damage. As for how frequently he takes damage, so long as he doesn't blink like most bosses, then I believe the bombs will work out well.

Zeo

2011-01-18 04:49:16 pm

Quote from Zyre:

Megaman's fully charged shot won't be enough to take down auras. With a maxed out Power and Charge stats, it will only deal 50 damage. As for how frequently he takes damage, so long as he doesn't blink like most bosses, then I believe the bombs will work out well.

Maybe I'm mixing up the Buster +chips with the other games. thee get charged along WITH the power upgrades, and I've gotten the Megabuster way up there before on doing this, but maybe transmission was BEFORE that was doable.

Seem to me it was ridiculously easy to get icemen chips, BUT that might just be because I had extraordinary luck that time. but another tick against that idea is Ice elements freeze effect is probably random.

Again it was 2004 last time I played this through and was doing my planning(this was before I knew about TG or SDA, it was just for kicks.)

Garlyle

2011-01-18 05:47:08 pm

That Guy

This game is extremely different from other Battle Network games in execution, so you definitely can't quite apply the same logic. HP counts on enemies don't always line up with how they were in the BN games; heck, the aura properties don't always match either (The elemental aura viri in the Zero Account still need 100-damage chips to break them, even though in the games their auras were <100 defense, and the chips they give are <100 auras)

And no. There aren't any Buster+ chips, nor is there a Navi Customizer to further boost stats beyond the Power Ups; the game still uses the development mechanics from Battle Network 1 (mostly).

Getting IceMan chips easily isn't the problem, unfortunately - it's that for each one you're wasting 20-30 seconds, and the navi chips are slow and use a lot of MP. You would probably be faster just going into the fight with a full stock of HiCannon and/or M-Cannon and leading him into a pattern.

Zeo

2011-01-18 09:41:14 pm

yeah I know navi customizer wasn't included.

sorry if I didn't remember anything useful.

Zyre

2011-01-19 12:16:39 am

The Speedrunning Teacher

Quote from Zeo:

sorry if I didn't remember anything useful.

What's more important is that you're interested in seeing this run done. To us runners, encouragement goes a long ways - even if you feel you don't have any good info to contribute. Smiley

Zeo

2011-01-20 02:02:53 am

thanks Zyre

Blast it IF i was at home I'd be on this...I really enjoyed this game, it was just too short and failed to compete with wind waker at the time for holding my attention.

Garlyle

Edit history:

Garlyle: 2011-01-20 04:08:13 am

Garlyle: 2011-01-20 04:07:40 am

2011-01-20 04:01:58 am

That Guy

Well, you're more than welcome to help out more once you're able!

One of the things about this game, compared to other Mega Man games, is that there's so many options to choose from for how to go about playing. Even if some are definitely better than others, it's not always even in the same way logic of the normal BN games (Remember how useless Minibombs are in those? Well, not here!), so any amount of experience is handy - even if it's things that we can answer with a "No, that's not a good idea", it's one less option to think about... and gets us thinking about more options than that.

Namely... I need to find out the mechanics on chip carryover (which I completely forgot about and might make PAs far more viable) and exactly how well some PAs work, especially on LifeVirus - I'd find it hilarious if UltraBomb turns out to be able to one-shot the first or second phase of the Life Virus like I suspect it could.

I also realised while mentioning the above that there's a VarSword chip, and that chip was horribly broken in the normal BN games. I don't think there's any information available about what it does in NT, and I can't immediately remember where it's found, but I can't help but be curious...

Well, you're more than welcome to help out more once you're able!

One of the things about this game, compared to other Mega Man games, is that there's so many options to choose from for how to go about playing.  Even if some are definitely better than others, it's not always even in the same way logic of the normal BN games (Remember how useless Minibombs are in those?  Well, not here!), so any amount of experience is handy - even if it's things that we can answer with a "No, that's not a good idea", it's one less option to think about... and gets us thinking about more options than that.

Namely... I need to find out the mechanics on chip carryover (which I completely forgot about and might make PAs far more viable) and exactly how well some PAs work, especially on LifeVirus - I'd find it hilarious if UltraBomb turns out to be able to one-shot the first or second phase of the Life Virus like I suspect it could.

I also realised while mentioning the above that there's a VarSword chip, and that chip was horribly broken in the normal BN games.  I don't think there's any information available about what it does in NT, and I can't immediately remember where it's found, but I can't help but be curious...

Zeo

Edit history:

Zeo: 2011-01-20 07:50:16 am

2011-01-20 07:44:10 am

According to game faqs you can get shocksword, wave sword, and life sword. As well as sword, wide sword, and longsword.
of course, but that's useless.'

http://www.gamefaqs.com/gamecube/562262-mega-man-network-transmission/faqs/24170

I never found this chip in Transmission, nor do I use it in The regular games, too many other chips that do massive enough damage without it in those games. ESP in 4, 5and 6, those dark merges are ISNANE, Esp in Team Colonel.

this one though might be much more worth messing with, considering you don't have Nav cust, soul merge, styles OR as diverse a chip selection.

Garlyle

2011-01-20 08:27:27 pm

That Guy

The reason VarSword was broken in the other games was the quadruple slash wave command - it was 640 damage, with an extra 160 if the foe happened to be elemental. Does't seem like such a thing is in this one though, so that's good. Also it's only from Protoman battles, which are entirely skippable in the first place...

Thanks for that, though; I don't remember that chip list being so detailed!

Zeo

2011-01-21 08:45:20 am

you're welcome.

I'm looking at the fist combos and liking....

Zyre

2011-01-21 09:30:20 am

The Speedrunning Teacher

Alright, things are on track for this project to finish today, so that means that I'll be able to stream some Megaman NT tonight! Grin

Right now the plan is to play the game (somewhat) fast and create saves for each of the stages so that I can practice/test each stage. From the looks of it, 14 saves slots will be enough.