Mega Man Zero 4

2013-12-17 03:48:23 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Hey guys, haven't visited since Prinny was released for PSP, as far as the forum anyway.

Why no MMZ4 run?

It's been years, you think somebody woulda tackled it.

Is it locked up due to the DS remake? I can't even find a discussion for it.

Thread title:

Kuribon

2013-12-17 05:44:18 pm

Neutral is never a weakness

I have been working on a Z4 route for the past few months. So far, it's about 80% complete and can save about 5 minutes over the current record, which is 50:14 RTA (Can't remember the game time. Don't care really since GT is inaccurate anyway). I'm aiming to see if I can make a route that can get sub 45 RTA.

The main reason why there hasn't been a solid Z4 run yet is because of RNG and lack of a solid route. An optimal run would get junk armor, which has some item drops that you can't manipulate. Ontop of that, you take double damage for the last half of the game, so a run can end very easily (2-3 hits and you're dead). Also doesn't help that bosses are hard to manipulate, meaning pulling off combos with junk armor becomes very dangerous. The bosses in general like to do things that waste a ton of time (looking at Weil, Pegasolta and Randam Bandam).

So yeah, that's kinda why Z4 has received almost no attention out of the 4 games. It's something I plan to work on, but not until I finish my main project, which is Z3 any%.

I have been working on a Z4 route for the past few months. So far, it's about 80% complete and can save about 5 minutes over the current record, which is 50:14 RTA (Can't remember the game time. Don't care really since GT is inaccurate anyway). I'm aiming to see if I can make a route that can get sub 45 RTA.

The main reason why there hasn't been a solid Z4 run yet is because of RNG and lack of a solid route. An optimal run would get junk armor, which has some item drops that you can't manipulate. Ontop of that, you take double damage for the last half of the game, so a run can end very easily (2-3 hits and you're dead). Also doesn't help that bosses are hard to manipulate, meaning pulling off combos with junk armor becomes very dangerous. The bosses in general like to do things that waste a ton of time (looking at Weil, Pegasolta and Randam Bandam).

So yeah, that's kinda why Z4 has received almost no attention out of the 4 games. It's something I plan to work on, but not until I finish my main project, which is Z3 any%.

Gojira345isDante

2013-12-17 08:14:41 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

THanks for the answer.

Maybe someone should do a different type of run for the site to get around some of the item drops.

Doesn't hard mode put you in junk armor right off?

Kuribon

2013-12-17 08:44:50 pm

Neutral is never a weakness

You could do low%, which doesn't get junk armor or any EX Skills. You reduce the amount of RNG you have to deal with, but the run is more basic (having EX Skills and stuff like that really make a run interesting imo, so no instant killing dragon mini bosses with time stopper).

Hard mode starts you off with the proto form from Z2, so slightly increased attack, no combos or charge attacks for saber, half defense and no EX Skills. So hard is pretty similar to low% except with no charge attacks, Z-Knuckle abuse on bosses and all weather set to hard.

With the any% route I have been working on, most of the bad item drop RNG is taken care of early on (Popla and Genblem are the worst when it comes to item drops). So it's mostly going to consist of learning how to deal with annoying bosses and stage hazards with half defense.

Gojira345isDante

2013-12-27 07:52:28 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I would, but ignorant of recording instruments needed to record ds/3ds.

Not to mention my gc advance player destroys save files.

Not doing any run though without a massive dpad. I NEED it to play accurately enough to speed run. I can get sranks and yadda yadda, but without the precision of that, my fat thumb just won't do it.

buttfield

Edit history:

buttfield: 2016-08-20 09:14:00 am

buttfield: 2016-08-20 09:13:49 am

2016-08-18 08:55:52 pm

m e m e s ?

edit: i really should've watched the tas route before i posted this to begin with
a lot of it doesn't seem too feasible for rta, especially the hundreds of frame-perfect wall jumps that make constantly wearing junk armor possible, but i'm not sure if the tas's abuse of hitstun mechanics could be carried over at all

classy 3-year necro

to avoid the rng shenanigans, any% no chips (so the elf and ex skills can be used), hard any%, and ng+ seem like the best categories to me
any% no chips would probably be a decent standard category, no rng outside of boss/enemy patterns and item drops, and not as brutal as hard any%, but not as as ng+
hard any% is for people who hate themselves and tas
ng+ would be much more accessible, since you can come in with all 4 sub tanks (not too broken, since [i think] they start empty, take a while to use, and would get eaten into a lot for damage boosting), max level elf, every ex skill, and whatever armor parts you need (passing over some redundant parts would make menuing faster)

general observations:
ex skills:
time stopper: very good, if not outright required, removes contact damage hitboxes and prevents attacking
burning shot: not bad, but not exceptionally useful, and probably not worth switching away from time stopper to use
tractor shot: only affecting one type of projectile and being bound to zero's animations makes using it extremely unreliable, almost definitely a waste unless the hard variant of magnetic zone is faster
ice javelin: handy against pegisola (not sure about magnus, i think saber is faster), and i don't think there's any big detriment to doing the harder version of kraken
sky chaser: good damage, but limited in potential uses, and tends to get you hit a lot
thunder stab: doesn't do as much damage as the normal dash attack per hit (without hacker 3, it sometimes fails to kill variants), but it paralyzes enemies, which might be useful
ice blade: no real use in speedruns, both bosses that are weak to it have hitboxes that almost never enter its reach
flame fang: generally better than burning shot due to how quickly it can be used, and probably the best weapon against tech kraken

armor parts (ng+):
the low-level ones are entirely redundant, obviously, but i don't think junk would be that good for ng+ outside of ragnarok core's boss rush (most platforming is faster and safer with strongest and doublejump, and allows a lot of damage boosting on spikes)

the "essentials" i'd go with are:
head: q-charge3, junkhead
body: strongest, junkbody
feet: quick, doublejump, junkboot
a-filling might be useful for killing weil 2 faster (partway through the level, you can pick up a z-knuckle flamethrower, which ignores his shield completely)

elf:
best names are probably croire (nurse 1 and 6), nouvelle (hacker 2 and 7), and recrue ([any% no chips], animal 3) or charité ([ng+], animal 3, 4, and 5)
any% nc probably won't get above level 3 or 4

any% nc:
nouvelle: any nurse, animal 1, hacker 2
recrue: any nurse, animal 3, hacker 2 or 3
croire: nurse 1, animal 1 or 3, hacker 2 or 3

ng+:
nouvelle: nurse 7, animal 7, hacker 7
charité: nurse 7, animal 3, 4, 5, or 7, hacker 7
croire: nurse 6, animal 7, hacker 6 or 7

edit: i really should've watched the tas route before i posted this to begin with
a lot of it doesn't seem too feasible for rta, especially the hundreds of frame-perfect wall jumps that make constantly wearing junk armor possible, but i'm not sure if the tas's abuse of hitstun mechanics could be carried over at all

classy 3-year necro

to avoid the rng shenanigans, any% no chips (so the elf and ex skills can be used), hard any%, and ng+ seem like the best categories to me
any% no chips would probably be a decent standard category, no rng outside of boss/enemy patterns and item drops, and not as brutal as hard any%, but not as as ng+
hard any% is for people who hate themselves and tas
ng+ would be much more accessible, since you can come in with all 4 sub tanks (not too broken, since [i think] they start empty, take a while to use, and would get eaten into a lot for damage boosting), max level elf, every ex skill, and whatever armor parts you need (passing over some redundant parts would make menuing faster)

general observations:
ex skills:
time stopper: very good, if not outright required, removes contact damage hitboxes and prevents attacking
burning shot: not bad, but not exceptionally useful, and probably not worth switching away from time stopper to use
tractor shot: only affecting one type of projectile and being bound to zero's animations makes using it extremely unreliable, almost definitely a waste unless the hard variant of magnetic zone is faster
ice javelin: handy against pegisola (not sure about magnus, i think saber is faster), and i don't think there's any big detriment to doing the harder version of kraken
sky chaser: good damage, but limited in potential uses, and tends to get you hit a lot
thunder stab: doesn't do as much damage as the normal dash attack per hit (without hacker 3, it sometimes fails to kill variants), but it paralyzes enemies, which might be useful
ice blade: no real use in speedruns, both bosses that are weak to it have hitboxes that almost never enter its reach
flame fang: generally better than burning shot due to how quickly it can be used, and probably the best weapon against tech kraken

armor parts (ng+):
the low-level ones are entirely redundant, obviously, but i don't think junk would be that good for ng+ outside of ragnarok core's boss rush (most platforming is faster and safer with strongest and doublejump, and allows a lot of damage boosting on spikes)

the "essentials" i'd go with are:
head: q-charge3, junkhead
body: strongest, junkbody
feet: quick, doublejump, junkboot
a-filling might be useful for killing weil 2 faster (partway through the level, you can pick up a z-knuckle flamethrower, which ignores his shield completely)

elf:
best names are probably croire (nurse 1 and 6), nouvelle (hacker 2 and 7), and recrue ([any% no chips], animal 3) or charité ([ng+], animal 3, 4, and 5)
any% nc probably won't get above level 3 or 4

any% nc:
nouvelle: any nurse, animal 1, hacker 2
recrue: any nurse, animal 3, hacker 2 or 3
croire: nurse 1, animal 1 or 3, hacker 2 or 3

ng+:
nouvelle: nurse 7, animal 7, hacker 7
charité: nurse 7, animal 3, 4, 5, or 7, hacker 7
croire: nurse 6, animal 7, hacker 6 or 7