Mega Man X runs on older consoles

2008-03-12 05:19:25 pm

Quote:

That's just strange. At least the invincibility trick had a science behind it.

It didn't used to have... it just worked. All we need is someone to point out what makes this one appear, and we have a theory. "Damaging Crates" bug would likely be more useful, though.

Cauldrath

2008-03-13 02:24:53 am

The baddle haz jusd begunn!

What do you mean by the "damaging crates" bug? Are you talking about how if you are touching a wall-like foreground object after the invincibility wears of from being crushed, you get crushed again, even if you shouldn't have?

As for the portal death bug, the only thing I can think of is that since you were invincible, you were able to get all the way to the left side of the portal before you were teleported, and, thus, one of the split images was able to get too far to the left, off the screen, and you "died" from being forced off screen.

Lastly, did you know you can kill the nightmares with one saber swipe if you do it from the ground? The first two ground slashes do an insane amount of damage with Guard Shell, so you might be able to take out the punching robots faster doing that, too. Might have to SDC them, though. I'll do some testing this weekend.

65

2008-03-13 08:02:40 am

I was once damaged by a crate in the intro while I was doing a dash-jump-saberslash at it. So far I haven't been able to recreate it, though.

Two hits is enough to take out the robots, but it requires very precise timing to do that before they start blocking, and the reward is small.

Cauldrath

2008-03-13 08:36:01 am

The baddle haz jusd begunn!

Were you able to go through the crate at that point? If you were, then it is likely the game thought it somehow crushed you and it would let you finish the level insanely fast if you could reproduce it.

65

Edit history:

65: 2008-03-13 05:29:55 pm

2008-03-13 05:29:02 pm

I was too stumped to test that, but it sounds very plausible. For example, I've been crushed to death in Gate's Lab 2 in the compressor part after destroying a punching robot and then dashing almost immediately. Since I'm dashing into a clear, I should be able to do the dash, but instead I have to wait for a few seconds before moving on after I've killed the robot.

I'm going to look into this later. For your information, it was the second block that hit me (it's raised a bit from the ground). It happened six months ago or so, so my memories are slightly unclear on the details. I did make a post of it with the most essential happenings at the time. I can't remember if I was hurt before getting hurt again by the block, but I was still playing on normal back then, so I doubt it.

Oh, and before I forget... apparently, your shots are boosted during a land dash, similarly to X & X2 (& X3), at least by judging how much punishment a turret takes in the intro. I'm pretty sure of this. Air-dash and dash-jumps might be inaffected - I haven't tested for those.

I was too stumped to test that, but it sounds very plausible. For example, I've been crushed to death in Gate's Lab 2 in the compressor part after destroying a punching robot and then dashing almost immediately. Since I'm dashing into a clear, I should be able to do the dash, but instead I have to wait for a few seconds before moving on after I've killed the robot.

I'm going to look into this later. For your information, it was the second block that hit me (it's raised a bit from the ground).  It happened six months ago or so, so my memories are slightly unclear on the details. I did make a post of it with the most essential happenings at the time. I can't remember if I was hurt before getting hurt again by the block, but I was still playing on normal back then, so I doubt it.

Oh, and before I forget... apparently, your shots are boosted during a land dash, similarly to X & X2 (& X3), at least by judging how much punishment a turret takes in the intro. I'm pretty sure of this. Air-dash and dash-jumps might be inaffected - I haven't tested for those.

65

Edit history:

65: 2008-03-18 11:03:28 pm

2008-03-18 08:31:01 pm

Well... I managed to recreate the "Damaging Crates" bug. Unfortunately, it does to give you the ability to bypass the block. Naturally, I caught the mysterious phenomenon on tape. Well, DVD, but anyway...

My bet is that once damaged, there's a small window of opportunity wherein the crate does some damage with its bottom. Also, only the raised one sets you up for the opportunity to try that, since you have to collide with it on the belt level.

I'm uploading it later; notification ensues.

Edit: Stupid meGUI. I shall try again tomorrow.

65

2008-03-19 05:53:37 pm

Uploaded.

Cauldrath

2008-03-19 06:46:58 pm

The baddle haz jusd begunn!

Interesting, maybe when they first made the game they intended to drop the blocks on you, but didn't want it to kill you instantly, but just made them stationary in a redesign?

65

Edit history:

65: 2008-03-19 07:54:53 pm

2008-03-19 07:48:55 pm

That doesn't explain it fully, since in that case it would deal crushing damage, which it doesn't do, as seen on the video. Otherwise, one could go through the block.

Oh, and by the way, I have this one video from an attempt I made. I failed, but this can still serve as a reference on how fast you can get to & kill High Max. Note that the stage would be considerably faster in Infinity Mijinion's stage, and High Max does his shield maneuver a few times. I'd anticipate a 1:30 with the best of luck.

65

Edit history:

65: 2008-03-28 07:33:21 pm

2008-03-24 04:06:26 am

More portal death randomness.

Also, I think I'm getting very close to my goal - all I need is that deathless run wherein I actually get lucky and keep it together.

Edit: Well, no luck yet, but I figured out what exactly made me fail getting the sub tank some of the time; I jump too soon. Now I can do that with approx. 100% accuracy, which smoothens out considerably the things I could trip on. Not worth bumping, but it's stil "PROGRESS!!1one". That is all.

65

2008-04-08 02:34:43 pm

Alright, here's the thing. I have some personal things to prepare to, so I won't be doing anything for this run for the next ~3 months. I won't be visiting the site much, either. This is important to me, so I don't want to fuck this up... again. So see you in July, I suppose. The remaining time should be more than enough for me to get to my goal with this run, so no worries.

One thing before I go, though. I think I have another theory for the Portal Death glitch. When Zero is splitting, the very opposite sides become vulnerable (and thus, able to interact with things) when they reach their peak. This would explain the Mijinion's stage portal death and the possibility to grab stuff from the opposite ends when you're splitting (a known situation is wherein Zero grabs a Nightmare soul floating nearby on his way out). Whether you're able to move or not while the portal glitch is activated (possible on Mijinion's stage, for example), but if you ever get that, try it out. If succesful, you'd be able to retrieve things and teleport to the sub-level by dying.

That is all.

Alright, here's the thing. I have some personal things to prepare to, so I won't be doing anything for this run for the next ~3 months. I won't be visiting the site much, either. This is important to me, so I don't want to fuck this up... again. So see you in July, I suppose. The remaining time should be more than enough for me to get to my goal with this run, so no worries.

One thing before I go, though. I think I have another theory for the Portal Death glitch. When Zero is splitting, the very opposite sides become vulnerable (and thus, able to interact with things) when they reach their peak. This would explain the Mijinion's stage portal death and the possibility to grab stuff from the opposite ends when you're splitting (a known situation is wherein Zero grabs a Nightmare soul floating nearby on his way out). Whether you're able to move or not while the portal glitch is activated (possible on Mijinion's stage, for example), but if you ever get that, try it out. If succesful, you'd be able to retrieve things and teleport to the sub-level by dying.

That is all.

65

2008-07-31 05:45:30 pm

Quote from 65:

Alright, here's the thing. I have some personal things to prepare to, so I won't be doing anything for this run for the next ~3 months.

Hum. Make that 4 months. I'll start working on this run again, and I still intend to finish it in the remaining 5 or so months. I kicked it off with a not-that-impressive 38:39, but hey, at least I haven't magically forgotten everything I learned prior to my break.

Quadruple necropost, yes indeed, but I have to do it sometime anyway (it's not like anyone else would do it...) so might as well do it now.

TyrantX

2008-08-01 12:13:38 am

VIOLENce!

C-c-combo brea... uh, never mind.

Glad to see you've kept your word. Can you give us a small peek on YouTube? Only if there is anything interesting in it, of course. Smiley

65

2008-08-07 06:50:55 pm

Hmm... I've been thinking about the X5 any% run, and I think I might give the "Zero all the way" strategy a try. The problem is, of course, the last stage. It's actually quite unlikely that it'll pay off, but I think in that case I could revert back to the Virus Red stage and improve it anyway.

This strategy requires much greater skill than the Ultimate X route, but it's almost two years since I made the run so I think I might be able to do it, if it's possible. While I would profit from the Virus Red stage, there are many things that are against it in the last stage. To be honest, I don't think it's possible (thanks to Glow, Gamma Sigma, Skiver & McWhalen). The other battles might benefit from the enhanced Saber and full SDC, so I'm still keeping my hopes up. Another snag is the second platforming part in the Sigma level; I have no weapons and there's just so much junk scattered about.

Thoughts?

I haven't been working on the X6 run, really. I've been playing through other games that stacked up because I've been speed running and didn't want to play them before. Also, I'm lazy.

Hmm... I've been thinking about the X5 any% run, and I think I might give the "Zero all the way" strategy a try. The problem is, of course, the last stage. It's actually quite unlikely that it'll pay off, but I think in that case I could revert back to the Virus Red stage and improve it anyway.

This strategy requires much greater skill than the Ultimate X route, but it's almost two years since I made the run so I think I might be able to do it, if it's possible. While I would profit from the Virus Red stage, there are many things that are against it in the last stage. To be honest, I don't think it's possible (thanks to Glow, Gamma Sigma, Skiver & McWhalen). The other battles might benefit from the enhanced Saber and full SDC, so I'm still keeping my hopes up. Another snag is the second platforming part in the Sigma level; I have no weapons and there's just so much junk scattered about.

Thoughts?

I haven't been working on the X6 run, really. I've been playing through other games that stacked up because I've been speed running and didn't want to play them before. Also, I'm lazy.

65

2008-08-09 07:12:16 am

Well, I gave it a try... it wasn't a very rewarding experience, thanks to Skiver and Sigmas. The main problem with Skiver is it requires some luck to get him stay still for a while, plus his diving attacks take ages, during which it's unlikely you can damage him much. The other bosses were surprisingly easy and fast to beat. The two-blow SDC is quite effective when you need to stay on the move. Dizzy requires quite the bit of luck as well (his draining attack is quite annoying), but otherwise the bosses were surprisingly simple to beat.

Sigmas are a pain in the ass, though. With luck, you can kill the first one with SDC pretty fast (assuming he stays still long enough), but then you have to take on Gamma Sigma (and usually on low health). The last fight is also problematic in that sense that the damage your jumping slash does is quite laughable. The standing slashes are somewhat effective, but it requires one to make the hands hit the upper corners. In short, I'm lacking an effective strategy.

Using only Zero might be more feasible in a SS, assuming you'll kill Dizzy to ease the luck with the shuttle. That way you have Time Stopper for the Skiver and Sub Tank for Sigmas. I'm unsure if it's more effective than having the Ultimate Armor for the last stage, though.

Well, I gave it a try... it wasn't a very rewarding experience, thanks to Skiver and Sigmas. The main problem with Skiver is it requires some luck to get him stay still for a while, plus his diving attacks take ages, during which it's unlikely you can damage him much. The other bosses were surprisingly easy and fast to beat. The two-blow SDC is quite effective when you need to stay on the move. Dizzy requires quite the bit of luck as well (his draining attack is quite annoying), but otherwise the bosses were surprisingly simple to beat.

Sigmas are a pain in the ass, though. With luck, you can kill the first one with SDC pretty fast (assuming he stays still long enough), but then you have to take on Gamma Sigma (and usually on low health). The last fight is also problematic in that sense that the damage your jumping slash does is quite laughable. The standing slashes are somewhat effective, but it requires one to make the hands hit the upper corners. In short, I'm lacking an effective strategy.

Using only Zero might be more feasible in a SS, assuming you'll kill Dizzy to ease the luck with the shuttle. That way you have Time Stopper for the Skiver and Sub Tank for Sigmas. I'm unsure if it's more effective than having the Ultimate Armor for the last stage, though.

TyrantX

2008-08-09 12:55:51 pm

VIOLENce!

Have you tried using Twin Dream on Gamma Sigma?

65

2008-08-09 01:06:32 pm

By any% I meant the run that's currently 10:12 or something: No normal stages, just crash the shuttle and kill Sigma; I won't be having the luxory of special weapons.

TyrantX

Edit history:

TyrantX: 2008-08-09 11:37:33 pm

2008-08-09 11:31:48 pm

VIOLENce!

Ohhh... I see. I actually have that run on my computer. It looks pretty tight, but then again I don't know much about running X5. How much do you expect to improve it?

65

Edit history:

65: 2008-08-10 09:09:16 am

2008-08-10 06:40:39 am

I think it's possible to save a second on the intro, maybe a quarter of a second on the filler, five or more seconds on Virus Blue with rigorous SDC'ing (seeing Satoryu did it 40 seconds faster, even if he had Saber+ and Hyper Dash). 3-4 seconds of improvement is possible on Virus Purple if you just run through the last part with complete disregard on your life (the luck with the boss is already perfect).

As for Virus Red & Sigma's stage... if I use Zero, I might save even close to 15 seconds, but that's just a wild estimation (currently the any% X is about 6.5 seconds (heh) slower than the 100% segment with Zero. Zero had a higher boss level against him so I can do it faster. I just don't know how much faster. I don't have any idea what Sigma's stage turns out to be like. Currently I'm hoping I can do it as fast as with X, but I'm really not sure about that. We'll see in due time.

E: Alright, Gamma Sigma is a huge problem. It's too slow to take down. Then there's the problem with luck. Almost every boss can be taken down faster with Zero, even McWhalen and Dizzy, but doing that requires pretty much everything to go in your way. X also moves faster than Zero because of his Nova Strike move. Lastly, I just can't kill Gamma Sigma.

So I'm not saying it can't be done, but it requires almost a TAS-level effort to do everything right. That said, the expected improvement just isn't good enough (13+ seconds not guaranteed) so I can't get myself motivated with such insignificant improvements, especially because the current record is mine anyway.

For SS this strategy might be possible, but you might have to kill Axle the Red (get Twin Dream, faster) instead of Dark Dizzy (get sub tank & Time Stopper, slower) to kill Gamma Sigma fast, but it would require you to act fast and stay alive and when added to the randomness of the shuttle, it becomes questionable if it's truly a better strategy.

Using Zero might also be useful in a 100% run, considering X & Zero are moving equally fast and you can kill Sigma's swiftly. Forward-Slash-Forward-Slash can be used to overcome Skiver's weapon's side effects and having Quake Blazer is useful against McWhalen. That would require some rearrangements, like getting Master Saber (?) instead of Ultimate Buster (which is more or less useless anyway) and maybe getting the enhancement for Zero instead of Buster+ from Mattrex.

Using Zero for a low% is a given, but some of the bosses are quite hard (Mattrex, for example) and the problem with Gamma Sigma is even worse.

I think it's possible to save a second on the intro, maybe a quarter of a second on the filler, five or more seconds on Virus Blue with rigorous SDC'ing (seeing Satoryu did it 40 seconds faster, even if he had Saber+ and Hyper Dash). 3-4 seconds of improvement is possible on Virus Purple if you just run through the last part with complete disregard on your life (the luck with the boss is already perfect).

As for Virus Red & Sigma's stage... if I use Zero, I might save even close to 15 seconds, but that's just a wild estimation (currently the any% X is about 6.5 seconds (heh) slower than the 100% segment with Zero. Zero had a higher boss level against him so I can do it faster. I just don't know how much faster. I don't have any idea what Sigma's stage turns out to be like. Currently I'm hoping I can do it [i]as[/i] fast as with X, but I'm really not sure about that. We'll see in due time.

E: Alright, Gamma Sigma is a huge problem. It's too slow to take down. Then there's the problem with luck. Almost every boss can be taken down faster with Zero, even McWhalen and Dizzy, but doing that requires pretty much everything to go in your way. X also moves faster than Zero because of his Nova Strike move. Lastly, I just can't kill Gamma Sigma.

So I'm not saying it can't be done, but it requires almost a TAS-level effort to do everything right. That said, the expected improvement just isn't good enough (13+ seconds not guaranteed) so I can't get myself motivated with such insignificant improvements, especially because the current record is mine anyway.

For SS this strategy might be possible, but you might have to kill Axle the Red (get Twin Dream, faster) instead of Dark Dizzy (get sub tank & Time Stopper, slower) to kill Gamma Sigma fast, but it would require you to act fast and stay alive and when added to the randomness of the shuttle, it becomes questionable if it's truly a better strategy.

Using Zero might also be useful in a 100% run, considering X & Zero are moving equally fast and you can kill Sigma's swiftly. Forward-Slash-Forward-Slash can be used to overcome Skiver's weapon's side effects and having Quake Blazer is useful against McWhalen. That would require some rearrangements, like getting Master Saber (?) instead of Ultimate Buster (which is more or less useless anyway) and maybe getting the enhancement for Zero instead of Buster+ from Mattrex.

Using Zero for a low% is a given, but some of the bosses are quite hard (Mattrex, for example) and the problem with Gamma Sigma is even worse.

LoF

2008-08-19 01:26:09 am

Been playing MMX3 (snes) for about a week now and got a very shitty 44:38 with 1 death on my last attempt earlier today or yesterday. I played really shitty throughout a lot of the run and got really unlucky against neon tiger (lost over 20 seconds here cause he used his invincible attack 4 or 5 times). If I get a really good run I think i might be able to make it in sub 43 minutes. So yeah I should have a run soon, and i'll prolly do a minimum % run too. By the way, before this I was playing MMX for almost 2 weeks and I was recording some runs, I took a break from that to do this but i'll prolly go back to it soon, so watch out frezy_man :P.

nate

2008-08-19 09:04:50 am

do it.

x3 is shit to play but fun to watch.

Elpis_TK31

2008-08-19 10:47:13 am

PAL 50Hz KILL ME NOW

I would love to see that, I personally haven't got the Guts/time/skills required for X3, so I'm glad to see someone working on it.

Quote from nate:

do it.

x3 is shit to play but fun to watch.

Word.

-Elpis

65

Edit history:

65: 2008-08-19 11:52:54 am

2008-08-19 11:31:25 am

I have a bit of news of my own, this time concerning Mega Man X4.

I have a potential improvement for the X 100%/any% route, which is based on a few glitches that are not used in the current runs.

The first one is this, as demonstrated by YouTube user MGXGOD. Now, you might be thinking "It's done with the Ultimate Armor so it doesn't have any real use", but in fact the only things required for it are currently (per my own testings - guaranteed to work) the Leg & Buster parts & Dragoon's weapon (just air-dash instead of Nova Striking). When he does the second Nova Strike you can just dash-jump. On the other hand you can't initiate the glitch with only Nova Striking (tested that, too), because X doesn't get high enough with it alone.

This glitch means you can skip fighting the Mushroom mid-boss, the destruction sequence and the scrolling after that, which certainly is a considerable improvement, not to mention that you can do Mushroom before Walrus, again saving some time. The Buster upgrade also means you can kill the Walrus miniboss more efficiently. Since you have to kill Storm Owl in order to pull this off (unless you can give X the extra height through other means), one might have some doubts about this. This is where the second glitch comes in.

Apparently, Storm Owl's invincibility is a bit flawed. It seems there is a time frame during his gound initiated Double Cyclone attack (the orbs, not the tornadoes, mind you) he doesn't have an invincibility period, meaning the Plasma Shot keeps chipping away his health with great speed during the move. I haven't replicated this since the first time, but I'm fairly sure it's recreatable. Considering WHEN it happens, it's likely that Zero can't capitalize this flaw in any meaningful way.

This is the third glitch (and the last of this post), again demonstrated by MGXGOD. I brought it up because if you can use it to get the Ride Armor in Magma Dragoon's stage up the hill and to the armor capsule, it saves literally a minute or two in the 100%. I haven't done it myself, nor am I quite sure how this works, but the potential usefulness is great so I'll bring it up anyway. The problem with this glitch is gaining the extra height to get it up on the hill; assuming the glitch can be done, you can just hover to the Armor part.

I'm not sure if the Mushroom miniboss skip can be done with Zero, but I'll look into it. I might also make a segmented test run, but I can't do it right now because I'm moving and the recorder is already at my new place.

Oh, and good luck with the X3 runs, Liger.

I have a bit of news of my own, this time concerning Mega Man X4.
 
I have a potential improvement for the X 100%/any% route, which is based on a few glitches that are not used in the current runs.
 
The first one is [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQILLVbDoiM]this[/url], as demonstrated by YouTube user MGXGOD. Now, you might be thinking "It's done with the Ultimate Armor so it doesn't have any real use", but in fact the only things required for it are currently (per my own testings - guaranteed to work) the Leg & Buster parts & Dragoon's weapon (just air-dash instead of Nova Striking). When he does the second Nova Strike you can just dash-jump. On the other hand you can't initiate the glitch with only Nova Striking (tested that, too), because X doesn't get high enough with it alone.

This glitch means you can skip fighting the Mushroom mid-boss, the destruction sequence and the scrolling after that, which certainly is a considerable improvement, not to mention that you can do Mushroom before Walrus, again saving some time. The Buster upgrade also means you can kill the Walrus miniboss more efficiently. Since you have to kill Storm Owl in order to pull this off (unless you can give X the extra height through other means), one might have some doubts about this. This is where the second glitch comes in.

Apparently, Storm Owl's invincibility is a bit flawed. It seems there is a time frame during his gound initiated Double Cyclone attack (the orbs, not the tornadoes, mind you) he doesn't have an invincibility period, meaning the Plasma Shot keeps chipping away his health with great speed during the move. I haven't replicated this since the first time, but I'm fairly sure it's recreatable. Considering WHEN it happens, it's likely that Zero can't capitalize this flaw in any meaningful way.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2K9nfWjOZU&feature=related]This[/url] is the third glitch (and the last of this post), again demonstrated by MGXGOD. I brought it up because if you can use it to get the Ride Armor in Magma Dragoon's stage up the hill and to the armor capsule, it saves literally a minute or two in the 100%. I haven't done it myself, nor am I quite sure how this works, but the potential usefulness is great so I'll bring it up anyway. The problem with this glitch is gaining the extra height to get it up on the hill; assuming the glitch can be done, you can just hover to the Armor part.

I'm not sure if the Mushroom miniboss skip can be done with Zero, but I'll look into it. I might also make a segmented test run, but I can't do it right now because I'm moving and the recorder is already at my new place.

Oh, and good luck with the X3 runs, Liger.

Satoryu

2008-08-19 12:46:47 pm

Visually Appealing

the trick in Mushroom is really neat and would save quite a bit. however, in order to do the miniboss skip, you need to have already visited Dragoon, Spider, and Owl. with Mushroom being stage 4, you won't have Frost Tower for Colonel. i don't know which is worse; Colonel without Frost Tower, or the Walrus miniboss without the Shoryuken. there's also the issue of Owl cooperating so the second glitch could be used.

TyrantX

2008-08-19 01:11:29 pm

VIOLENce!

Quote from 65:

This is the third glitch (and the last of this post), again demonstrated by MGXGOD. I brought it up because if you can use it to get the Ride Armor in Magma Dragoon's stage up the hill and to the armor capsule, it saves literally a minute or two in the 100%. I haven't done it myself, nor am I quite sure how this works, but the potential usefulness is great so I'll bring it up anyway. The problem with this glitch is gaining the extra height to get it up on the hill; assuming the glitch can be done, you can just hover to the Armor part.

The Ride Armor on Magma Dragoon's stage can't fly, so I don't think you can use the glitch here.