Mega Man X5 All Bosses & "100%" Routing and Logistics

Edit history:

After5: 2016-02-11 05:50:29 pm

2016-02-09 11:59:28 am

Hello all.

In a few weeks, I will be getting into running Mega Man X5. I searched around for some intel on the runs, but all I could really find was completed runs like the VOD of orsa's All boss run on Speedrun and Patrick Salonen's 100% segmented run on SDA.

I would like to understand the logistics behind the game and why I'm doing the routes that others are using. If my search was not thorough enough, please direct me to other forum posts with some up-to-date information. I would appreciate it!

If not, right away I have a handful of questions I would like to know the answers to.

1. Is 100% single segment reasonably possible? The category doesn't seem to exist on Speedrun.com, and based on the segmented run it seems to rely on early cannon & shuttle launching and succeeding. I'm not certain if this is pure RNG or if you are able to control the outcome. I know you're normally supposed to defeat the bosses to increase the reliability of your cannon/shuttle, but I don't know what you can get away with.

2. Boss levels seem to be significant to the route for getting the parts you need for the cannon/shuttle. What are all the methods for increasing boss levels, how much do they increase them by, and what levels are needed in order to get what you need?

3. What parts are vital to the run and for what reasons? In the All bosses run I see some very quick menuing to equip X and Zero with certain upgrades at certain points in the run, but I couldn't follow why. All I know is that X's ultimate armor is needed for Nova Strike on the final stretch.

I believe if I understood these things I could start to piece some things together myself. It's been a very long time since I've played MMX5 and plan on doing a handful of casual/experiment runs, but I thought it would still help for me know some intel ahead of time.

I appreciate your time and help!

Thread title:

Hello all.

In a few weeks, I will be getting into running Mega Man X5.  I searched around for some intel on the runs, but all I could really find was completed runs like the VOD of orsa's All boss run on Speedrun and Patrick Salonen's 100% segmented run on SDA.

I would like to understand the logistics behind the game and why I'm doing the routes that others are using.  If my search was not thorough enough, please direct me to other forum posts with some up-to-date information.  I would appreciate it!

If not, right away I have a handful of questions I would like to know the answers to.

1.  Is 100% single segment reasonably possible?  The category doesn't seem to exist on Speedrun.com, and based on the segmented run it seems to rely on early cannon & shuttle launching and succeeding.  I'm not certain if this is pure RNG or if you are able to control the outcome.  I know you're normally supposed to defeat the bosses to increase the reliability of your cannon/shuttle, but I don't know what you can get away with.

2.  Boss levels seem to be significant to the route for getting the parts you need for the cannon/shuttle.  What are all the methods for increasing boss levels, how much do they increase them by, and what levels are needed in order to get what you need?

3.  What parts are vital to the run and for what reasons?  In the All bosses run I see some very quick menuing to equip X and Zero with certain upgrades at certain points in the run, but I couldn't follow why.  All I know is that X's ultimate armor is needed for Nova Strike on the final stretch.

I believe if I understood these things I could start to piece some things together myself.  It's been a very long time since I've played MMX5 and plan on doing a handful of casual/experiment runs, but I thought it would still help for me know some intel ahead of time.

I appreciate your time and help!

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2016-02-09 04:46:48 pm

2016-02-09 04:46:06 pm

<(^_^)>

There's a lot of important things to note. When you complete a level, you can choose between getting a weapon energy upgrade or a life upgrade. But when boss levels are at least 8, you also get a "part". This includes vital upgrades such as quick dash, z saber+, and so on.

Boss levels are partly determined by your character rank. This is why in an all-stages run, the current RTA route does mattrex first with Zero and attempts to GA-rank it. This boosts Zero's rank to GA, and increases boss levels by 2; by doing this, you can then fight grizzly slash at boss level 8, to get hyper dash as soon as possible. He would be at level 6 if you followed the same route without boosting zero's rank. This is the only significance of boss levels - to get their respective part. Orsa's all-stages run is probably the fastest reasonable route to follow, though there are other routes if you don't want to bother with being required to GA-rank zero.

It's also why in a 100% run you see so many game overs. Each time you return to the main menu increases boss level by 1, whether it be by game over or actually finishing a stage.

Cannon/shuttle success depends on how many cannon/shuttle parts you get. Note that with the enigma shot, even if you get all 4 parts, the chances of it succeeding are still obnoxiously low.

Finishing a 100% single segment run is of course possible, but doing more optimal routes is pretty obnoxious and unreliable; there's a reason why nobody really does it seriously at the moment. It requires having higher ranks, and going for stupid tricks like nova-striking the heart tank in grizzly slash to skip a revisit.

There's a lot of important things to note. When you complete a level, you can choose between getting a weapon energy upgrade or a life upgrade. But when boss levels are at least 8, you also get a "part". This includes vital upgrades such as quick dash, z saber+, and so on.

Boss levels are partly determined by your character rank. This is why in an all-stages run, the current RTA route does mattrex first with Zero and attempts to GA-rank it. This boosts Zero's rank to GA, and increases boss levels by 2; by doing this, you can then fight grizzly slash at boss level 8, to get hyper dash as soon as possible. He would be at level 6 if you followed the same route without boosting zero's rank. This is the only significance of boss levels - to get their respective part. Orsa's all-stages run is probably the fastest reasonable route to follow, though there are other routes if you don't want to bother with being required to GA-rank zero.

It's also why in a 100% run you see so many game overs. Each time you return to the main menu increases boss level by 1, whether it be by game over or actually finishing a stage.

Cannon/shuttle success depends on how many cannon/shuttle parts you get. Note that with the enigma shot, even if you get all 4 parts, the chances of it succeeding are still obnoxiously low.

Finishing a 100% single segment run is of course possible, but doing more optimal routes is pretty obnoxious and unreliable; there's a reason why nobody really does it seriously at the moment. It requires having higher ranks, and going for stupid tricks like nova-striking the heart tank in grizzly slash to skip a revisit.

After5

2016-02-09 06:06:53 pm

Thanks for the information kirbymastah! I will definitely start by running all stages in order to get comfortable with how everything adds up.

I completely forgot about the ranking system and had no idea that it influences boss levels. I found a little GameFAQs thing on kind of how ranking works so I can understand what factors into it. I'll just make sure to watch more closely at the end of stages to know what I can get and from which boss.

Thanks again!

Satoryu

2016-02-09 07:57:01 pm

Visually Appealing

Quote from kirbymastah:

It's also why in a 100% run you see so many game overs. Each time you return to the main menu increases boss level by 1, whether it be by game over or actually finishing a stage.

It's a little more complicated than that. Boss levels will be increased by 2 every other in-game hour that passes. That's why if you fight a boss immediately he's either level 1 or 3 depending on the character (Zero starts at SA rank, and that gives a 2 level bonus). Defeating a boss also adds 1 level to the next boss. This is all how you get Grizzly to level 8: 1 + 4 from GA rank + 2 from 2 hours passing + 1 boss defeated = 8.

Besides Hyper Dash, the only other important parts I believe are Saber Plus from Rosered and Quick Charge from Kraken. Unless you get Ultimate Buster from Rosered instead. Jumper might be good as well.

I had made a route for 100% a few years ago. It's probably really dated right now. For example I don't believe it has the strategy for Grizzly's heart tank that Kirbymastah mentioned. I've been out of touch with X5 for a long while.

[quote="kirbymastah"]
It's also why in a 100% run you see so many game overs. Each time you return to the main menu increases boss level by 1, whether it be by game over or actually finishing a stage.
[/quote]

It's a little more complicated than that. Boss levels will be increased by 2 every other in-game hour that passes. That's why if you fight a boss immediately he's either level 1 or 3 depending on the character (Zero starts at SA rank, and that gives a 2 level bonus). Defeating a boss also adds 1 level to the next boss. This is all how you get Grizzly to level 8: 1 + 4 from GA rank + 2 from 2 hours passing + 1 boss defeated = 8.

Besides Hyper Dash, the only other important parts I believe are Saber Plus from Rosered and Quick Charge from Kraken. Unless you get Ultimate Buster from Rosered instead. Jumper might be good as well.

I had made a route for 100% a few years ago. It's probably really dated right now. For example I don't believe it has the strategy for Grizzly's heart tank that Kirbymastah mentioned. I've been out of touch with X5 for a long while.

After5

2016-02-10 04:30:56 am

Thanks for the detailed breakdown on boss level ups Satoryu.

Does getting Ultimate Buster influence the damage you deal with Nova Strike for the boss rush & Sigma?

I would be interested to see your route for 100%. Even if it's dated I think it would be a good starting point to build off of. I believe I may have seen it within a huge Mega Man thread way back in 2007 or 2008 when I did a search. If nothing else, I think it's always good to have some extra knowledge on hand. If you're willing to talk about it I'd like to hear about it!

kirbymastah

2016-02-10 11:32:10 am

<(^_^)>

I made this a while ago but it' sprobably outdated. Nobody really has done 100% very seriously because it's a really dumb category to do a full run of, and is better suited for segmented - http://pastebin.com/TmwB9LN3

Satoryu

2016-02-10 03:10:45 pm

Visually Appealing

Found my route. It actually does have Grizzly heart with Ultimate X. But it also uses Zero well after fighting Skiver. Not sure why I had it like that. Maybe it was just super super theoretical.

Anyway here it is. Route is for real time, game time alternates in brackets:

Intro (Fourth)
Fire Cannon and Shuttle (keep Zero alive, of course)
Virus Blue (Zero) (rank up to GA)
Virus Purple (Fourth) (rank up to A)
Virus Red (get Black Zero, suicide to stage selection, get Ultimate Armor, rank X up to SA)
Mattrex (Zero) get everything
Grizzly (Ultimate) get everything, pick Hyper Dash
Dynamo1 (Zero)
McWhalen (Zero) get nothing {{game time run can exit in and out of a stage to get Hyper Dash, then do McWhalen1 later}}
equip Hyper Dash
Skiver (Zero) get everything, pick Jumper
Hotarunix (Ultimate) get everything
Necrobat (Ultimate) get everything
Dynamo2 (Zero)
equip Jumper
Rosered (not sure which character is better) get armor part, pick Master Saber {{not sure if Jumper's required if you're using Ultimate Armor. if it's not, Rosered could probably be done right after Skiver}}
Kraken (Gaea) get everything
{{exit a stage to get and equip Master Saber on Zero, McWhalen (Zero) get heart tank}}
Rosered (Gaea) get heart tank, exit
McWhalen (Ultimate) get everything {{just the capsule}} and exit
equip Master Saber on Zero
Final stage (Zero)

The goal of all this was to minimize revisiting stages and eliminate using the Falcon armor. The only revisits that are absolutely required are McWhalen and Rosered. Everything else can be gotten in one trip. Skiver as Zero is a big one. You have to make the virus on the diagonal elevator spawn multiple times so Zero gets infected and you can use that invincibility to get to the armor capsule.

Some things from the 100% TAS can probably be used as well. That uses Wing Spiral in creative ways to give X a bit more distance. I've known about pause cancelling it, but the TAS does this without pausing.

Found my route. It actually does have Grizzly heart with Ultimate X. But it also uses Zero well after fighting Skiver. Not sure why I had it like that. Maybe it was just super super theoretical.

Anyway here it is. Route is for real time, game time alternates in brackets:

Intro (Fourth)
Fire Cannon and Shuttle (keep Zero alive, of course)
Virus Blue (Zero) (rank up to GA)
Virus Purple (Fourth) (rank up to A)
Virus Red (get Black Zero, suicide to stage selection, get Ultimate Armor, rank X up to SA)
Mattrex (Zero) get everything
Grizzly (Ultimate) get everything, pick Hyper Dash
Dynamo1 (Zero)
McWhalen (Zero) get nothing {{game time run can exit in and out of a stage to get Hyper Dash, then do McWhalen1 later}}
equip Hyper Dash
Skiver (Zero) get everything, pick Jumper
Hotarunix (Ultimate) get everything
Necrobat (Ultimate) get everything
Dynamo2 (Zero)
equip Jumper
Rosered (not sure which character is better) get armor part, pick Master Saber {{not sure if Jumper's required if you're using Ultimate Armor. if it's not, Rosered could probably be done right after Skiver}}
Kraken (Gaea) get everything
{{exit a stage to get and equip Master Saber on Zero, McWhalen (Zero) get heart tank}}
Rosered (Gaea) get heart tank, exit
McWhalen (Ultimate) get everything {{just the capsule}} and exit
equip Master Saber on Zero
Final stage (Zero)

The goal of all this was to minimize revisiting stages and eliminate using the Falcon armor. The only revisits that are absolutely required are McWhalen and Rosered. Everything else can be gotten in one trip. Skiver as Zero is a big one. You have to make the virus on the diagonal elevator spawn multiple times so Zero gets infected and you can use that invincibility to get to the armor capsule.

Some things from the [url=http://tasvideos.org/3473S.html]100% TAS[/url] can probably be used as well. That uses Wing Spiral in creative ways to give X a bit more distance. I've known about pause cancelling it, but the TAS does this without pausing.

After5

2016-02-10 04:20:43 pm

Thanks for all the information guys! Even if the run is kind of butts, I'd like to see what I can do with max item collection/100%.

orsa

2016-02-10 10:06:27 pm

hey, glad to see some interest in x5.

everyone above has done a pretty good job at info, but i'm gonna throw my two cents in anyway.

1) "100%" doesn't really exist in x5, since it's not possible to get all of the permanent items in a single playthrough. the issue is parts - there's 16 total in the game but only 8 of them can be achieved on a single playthrough. you can skirt around this by defining 100% as "max%" or something like that, or not requiring parts at all. anyway, the fastest route for a max% completion would involve, as satoryu said above, firing the cannon/shuttle to enter the virus stages as soon as possible. it's pure rng, so the category is super reset heavy, regardless of how you define it. satoryu's route looks fine, and is probably the best one out there, considering how little attention's been put into this category. wing spiral pause cancelling can be useful (to skip the end of the dizzy autoscroller for example) but i don't know of a way to do it without pause-cancelling in rta.

2) boss levels increase every time you "finish" a stage (ie: return to stage select) or defeat a boss. boss levels go up by a fixed amount per stage select and a variable amount depending on your hunter rank. the higher your rank, the more boss levels go up. for example, if you defeat a boss at SA rank, the next maverick's level increases by +2, GA by +4, etc. this is useful in all stages, as you can get hyper dash from grizzly very quickly by raising your level in dinorex to GA. bosses give a choice between life up/energy up if they're at least level 4, and a part choice if they're at least level 8.

3) only vital parts in all stages are hyper dash (life+ on grizzly), energy saver (energy+ on makkoeen), saber-plus (energy+ on rosered), and quick charge (life+ on kraken). here's a rundown of the menuing in all stages:

equip hyper dash on zero after makoeen
equip saber+ and energy saver on zero after necrobat
equip hyper dash + quick charge on x after virus 2
equip hyper dash + quick charge on uax after pegacion

ultimate buster only affects the charge speed for x, it doesn't affect the damage at all.

as kirby said, "100%" is much better suited to segmented run or tas than single-segment, but you're welcome to try if you want. you can also feel free to message me on twitter or twitch if you have any other questions. i'm working on a detailed all stages tutorial at the moment but i can also answer any questions you have.

hey, glad to see some interest in x5.

everyone above has done a pretty good job at info, but i'm gonna throw my two cents in anyway.

1) "100%" doesn't really exist in x5, since it's not possible to get all of the permanent items in a single playthrough.  the issue is parts - there's 16 total in the game but only 8 of them can be achieved on a single playthrough.  you can skirt around this by defining 100% as "max%" or something like that, or not requiring parts at all.  anyway, the fastest route for a max% completion would involve, as satoryu said above, firing the cannon/shuttle to enter the virus stages as soon as possible.  it's pure rng, so the category is super reset heavy, regardless of how you define it.  satoryu's route looks fine, and is probably the best one out there, considering how little attention's been put into this category.  wing spiral pause cancelling can be useful (to skip the end of the dizzy autoscroller for example) but i don't know of a way to do it without pause-cancelling in rta.

2) boss levels increase every time you "finish" a stage (ie: return to stage select) or defeat a boss.  boss levels go up by a fixed amount per stage select and a variable amount depending on your hunter rank.  the higher your rank, the more boss levels go up.  for example, if you defeat a boss at SA rank, the next maverick's level increases by +2, GA by +4, etc.  this is useful in all stages, as you can get hyper dash from grizzly very quickly by raising your level in dinorex to GA.  bosses give a choice between life up/energy up if they're at least level 4, and a part choice if they're at least level 8.

3) only vital parts in all stages are hyper dash (life+ on grizzly), energy saver (energy+ on makkoeen), saber-plus (energy+ on rosered), and quick charge (life+ on kraken).  here's a rundown of the menuing in all stages:

equip hyper dash on zero after makoeen
equip saber+ and energy saver on zero after necrobat
equip hyper dash + quick charge on x after virus 2
equip hyper dash + quick charge on uax after pegacion

ultimate buster only affects the charge speed for x, it doesn't affect the damage at all.

as kirby said, "100%" is much better suited to segmented run or tas than single-segment, but you're welcome to try if you want.  you can also feel free to message me on twitter or twitch if you have any other questions.  i'm working on a detailed all stages tutorial at the moment but i can also answer any questions you have.

Heidrage

2016-02-11 07:09:49 am

Willing to teach you the impossible

Just showing support for this, I will be lurking.

After5

2016-02-11 05:46:25 pm

Hey orsa, thanks for the detailed clarification! I gave you a follow on twitch & twitter so I can get in touch when I start getting into actual runs.

I figured the practicality of "100%" was almost completely restricted by firing cannon/shuttle with no parts, so if I wanted to practice the route I figured I'd keep a save file/save state after getting successful launch and do an unofficial run from there on.

All stages is definitely my focus though. I look forward to seeing your tutorial when it's all done!