Mega Man 8 Any %

2011-12-20 10:50:44 pm

Hello all, I couldn't find a dedicated thread for Mega Man 8 so I figured I'd make one. I've had a lot of fun over the last month speedrunning this game on stream, and I am starting to get some decent times. In typical fashion, all my best runs still have deaths in them, so although I'm improving, I'm not in a submittable range yet. So to start off I'll list the current information I know about runs on this game

SDA time: 1:04:57 on PAL Saturn by Patrik 'Cremator' Salonen
Nico Video time: 57:57 RTA (sorry I don't know the name of this runner)
TAS time: 47:06 by fractal fusion
My Best time so far: 55:47 (first control to last hit on wily) on the anniversary collection for PS2

Naturally my run is full of terrible control, bad boss luck and a couple deaths, so it won't be too hard for me to knock time off.

If I do a good run on stream sometime soon, I'll link the jtv highlight for critique, but for now I just wanted to get the ball rolling (haaaa..)

I realize that the PAL run runs at 5/6 speed and has more load screens than my version, so I was wondering what sort of time I should be shooting for to have something awesome. my current goal is 53:XX, but that a) might not be good enough and b) should come fairly soon. My route differs from the SDA run to only grab 5 bolts (as opposed to a tonne) to get hyper slide, and use slightly different boss strategies to make up for not having the energy saver and hyper charge.

Please post if you have some interest in this game! (one of these days I'll play a game that people care about, I sware)

Thread title:

Hello all, I couldn't find a dedicated thread for Mega Man 8 so I figured I'd make one. I've had a lot of fun over the last month speedrunning this game on stream, and I am starting to get some decent times. In typical fashion, all my best runs still have deaths in them, so although I'm improving, I'm not in a submittable range yet. So to start off I'll list the current information I know about runs on this game

SDA time: 1:04:57 on PAL Saturn by Patrik 'Cremator' Salonen
Nico Video time: 57:57 RTA (sorry I don't know the name of this runner) 
TAS time: 47:06 by fractal fusion
My Best time so far: 55:47 (first control to last hit on wily) on the anniversary collection for PS2

Naturally my run is full of terrible control, bad boss luck and a couple deaths, so it won't be too hard for me to knock time off.

If I do a good run on stream sometime soon, I'll link the jtv highlight for critique, but for now I just wanted to get the ball rolling (haaaa..)

I realize that the PAL run runs at 5/6 speed and has more load screens than my version, so I was wondering what sort of time I should be shooting for to have something awesome. my current goal is 53:XX, but that a) might not be good enough and b) should come fairly soon. My route differs from the SDA run to only grab 5 bolts (as opposed to a tonne) to get hyper slide, and use slightly different boss strategies to make up for not having the energy saver and hyper charge.

Please post if you have some interest in this game! (one of these days I'll play a game that people care about, I sware)

Tiberius

2011-12-21 06:09:03 am

Make it so.

Not played this one much but I love watching all MM games so just chipping in with support!

Looks like the times are already pretty awesome, I'm sure there will be someone who understands the version differences enough to give you a reasonable estimate of what your time is like in comparison to the PAL though.

Emptyeye

2011-12-21 11:24:58 am

Talk to the Hand

I'd like to see this. Mega Man 8, of course, gives us the shocking revelation that its end boss is NOT Dr. Wily, but rather a Dr. Wily lookalike who goes by the name "Dr. Wahwee". As well as the fact that Bass is named NOT for the musical instrument/frequency range, but for the fish with the same spelling.

...

Cheesy

Riskbreaker Y

2011-12-21 05:19:09 pm

berserker status

I would also like to see this. <3 mm8! Good luck, looks like you're well on your way. Oh and running popular games is so blasé.

obdajr

2011-12-24 01:32:11 am

made some videos today, so gonna link them! These videos are of the stages done after the boss is defeated already. the bosses in this game are generally pretty easy, and practicing this way was a lot easier.
i should also mention that my run uses the same boss order as the current SDA run: grenade, frost, tengu, clown, sword, search, astro, aqua.

Intro stage [1:15]
http://www.justin.tv/obdajr/b/303481882
ignore the aweful boss fight, the stage is done pretty good. i miss an easy slide on top of the first tree, but whatever.

Grenade Man [2:36]
http://www.justin.tv/obdajr/b/303482869
this went alright, the miniboss can give me a better pattern and i mess up the rush biking a little. i get 3 less bolts in this stage compared to cremator.

Frost Man [3:35]
http://www.justin.tv/obdajr/b/303483046
this stage is like 80% autoscroller so its really just going through the motions. i skip a bolt on the snowboard because i dont need it and i die there a lot. this decision has save me a few headaches.

Tengu Man [3:54]
http://www.justin.tv/obdajr/b/303483286
tengu man stage is terrible... but i think ive got the hard parts down now. despite it being like 70% autoscroller, this stage ends a lot of runs... i get 3 bolts here.

made some videos today, so gonna link them! These videos are of the stages done after the boss is defeated already. the bosses in this game are generally pretty easy, and practicing this way was a lot easier.
i should also mention that my run uses the same boss order as the current SDA run: grenade, frost, tengu, clown, sword, search, astro, aqua.

Intro stage [1:15]
http://www.justin.tv/obdajr/b/303481882
ignore the aweful boss fight, the stage is done pretty good. i miss an easy slide on top of the first tree, but whatever.

Grenade Man [2:36]
http://www.justin.tv/obdajr/b/303482869
this went alright, the miniboss can give me a better pattern and i mess up the rush biking a little. i get 3 less bolts in this stage compared to cremator.

Frost Man [3:35]
http://www.justin.tv/obdajr/b/303483046
this stage is like 80% autoscroller so its really just going through the motions. i skip a bolt on the snowboard because i dont need it and i die there a lot. this decision has save me a few headaches.

Tengu Man [3:54]
http://www.justin.tv/obdajr/b/303483286
tengu man stage is terrible... but i think ive got the hard parts down now. despite it being like 70% autoscroller, this stage ends a lot of runs... i get 3 bolts here.

velocikiller

2011-12-24 06:28:28 pm

I would love to pull out my copy to start seeing little time savers, but I seem to have misplaced it.

I still remember when I found out how to ball jump like a champion. Felt so good.

Can anyone explain to me how the TAS manages to make the ball a one hit kill? Always confused me.

obdajr

2011-12-25 11:05:40 pm

If you're talking about the crab boss, he has no invincibility frames, so the TAS just spams the ball 5 times in one jump and kills it. This can be done in real time, but i'm terrible at it and i hate resetting the first stage =P. my way (5 quick jumps and 5 balls) works every time and is about 2 seconds slower.

duckfist

2011-12-26 08:13:11 am

A 2-second compromise to get a higher frequency of attempts may not be a bad idea.

Anyways, you've got my support, obda, you learn fast and have really good play, I know you'll crush it with 53:xx soon easily.

obdajr

Edit history:

obdajr: 2012-01-02 01:46:47 am

2012-01-01 08:52:36 pm

Got a new Personal best today, and finally a deathless run! 54:34 with no major mistakes and average boss luck. i mgiht start recording soon with a goal of sub 54 ^_^

http://www.justin.tv/obdajr/b/304296955

65

2012-01-03 07:34:30 pm

I watched your run. Even though I'm not entirely convinced of your strategy of not picking up more bolts (personally, I'd probably go for either the energy saver OR h. speed charge), it seems you've balanced the lack of arsenal pretty well. Sure enough, Aqua Man and Jello Devil didn't go so well in that run, but it seemed more like an issue in execution rather than strategy. The Mega Ball usage in Jello Devil's stage might use some tweaking, though - or maybe that, too, was just due to some mistakes, it's hard for me to say. At any rate, I was impressed how well you managed to deal with the arsenal issue in general.

Regarding the last boss, is Flash Bomb really that great against Wily? I remember there was another weapon aside from fire sword that did good damage, but was it really Flash Bomb, and did it always did such pathetic damage? Sheesh.

I noticed you intentionally avoided power-ups for most of the flying sections - why is that? I would have assumed you'd lose time in, say, the part where you shoot the two whale ships before moving on, among a few others, I suppose. Did you find out somewhere that it isn't actually the case?

I suppose as the current record holder for the SDA run there's one more thing for me to say:

Crush my run without mercy.

You seem like an able guy, so I'm sure you will produce a great run sooner or later, so long as you keep at it. I'm looking forward to it.

I watched your run. Even though I'm not entirely convinced of your strategy of not picking up more bolts (personally, I'd probably go for either the energy saver OR h. speed charge), it seems you've balanced the lack of arsenal pretty well. Sure enough, Aqua Man and Jello Devil didn't go so well in that run, but it seemed more like an issue in execution rather than strategy. The Mega Ball usage in Jello Devil's stage might use some tweaking, though - or maybe that, too, was just due to some mistakes, it's hard for me to say. At any rate, I was impressed how well you managed to deal with the arsenal issue in general.

Regarding the last boss, is Flash Bomb really that great against Wily? I remember there was another weapon aside from fire sword that did good damage, but was it really Flash Bomb, and did it always did such pathetic damage? Sheesh.

I noticed you intentionally avoided power-ups for most of the flying sections - why is that? I would have assumed you'd lose time in, say, the part where you shoot the two whale ships before moving on, among a few others, I suppose. Did you find out somewhere that it isn't actually the case?

I suppose as the current record holder for the SDA run there's one more thing for me to say: [hidden]Crush my run without mercy.[/hidden]

You seem like an able guy, so I'm sure you will produce a great run sooner or later, so long as you keep at it. I'm looking forward to it.

obdajr

Edit history:

obdajr: 2012-01-03 09:43:32 pm

2012-01-03 09:36:47 pm

hyper charge only helps against bass really, and the amount of time you save is less than the time it takes just to shop for the hyper charge (assuming its an additional trip). The additional bolts in the first 4 levels don't accommodate the upgrade without detours.

energy saver only makes the stages easier, and not faster. it saves time on aqua man ( 3 seconds) and... i think thats it acually. Once again, the extra time grabbing the bolts is more than this. My Wily 3 stage was terrible this run because i got super nervous near the end after the awesome wily 2 boss luck. I'll put up a vid with a good wily 3 stage when i have some time. 20 mega balls is definitely enough if i dont screw up so much.

Doing a second trip to the shop is like 15-20 seconds or something like that, so i don't really consider that an option unless the time saved is more significant than i am seeing.

dmg charts for wily capsule: 40HP, 2 dmg by flash bomb, charged shot, and flame sword; 1 dmg by everything else. I use flasj bomb as it has a nice hit box and i can avoid his shots easier than if i use sword. charged shot is just as good, but not as flashy ( yea yeah i know... ill be quiet )

the TAS has shown me that nothing you do in the first tengu man autoscroller can make it go faster: the run acually waits for both whales to shoot all their birds and fly off the screen. This section is entirely time based and not kill dem enemies based. i don't get any partners cause it's badass.

The second tengu man auto scroller is the same deal except for the mini boss which dies fastest by beat. hitting it with anything else slows down its death due to invincibility frames, so i avoid getting any other partners who have minds of their own and tend to not like me.

The same goes for the Wily 2 stage rush jet, I dont get any partners because if they hit the boss while i am astro crashing, it might lead to it not dying like i want it to. I only have 4 shots with astro crash so i need them all to count as well.

I think that addresses all your concerns =D i would love to be convinced of any route changes though. I appreciate the input!

hyper charge only helps against bass really, and the amount of time you save is less than the time it takes just to shop for the hyper charge (assuming its an additional trip). The additional bolts in the first 4 levels don't accommodate the upgrade without detours.

energy saver only makes the stages easier, and not faster. it saves time on aqua man ( 3 seconds) and... i think thats it acually. Once again, the extra time grabbing the bolts is more than this.  My Wily 3 stage was terrible this run because i got super nervous near the end after the awesome wily 2 boss luck. I'll put up a vid with a good wily 3 stage when i have some time. 20 mega balls is definitely enough if i dont screw up so much.

Doing a second trip to the shop is like 15-20 seconds or something like that, so i don't really consider that an option unless the time saved is more significant than i am seeing.

dmg charts for wily capsule: 40HP, 2 dmg by flash bomb, charged shot, and flame sword; 1 dmg by everything else. I use flasj bomb as it has a nice hit box and i can avoid his shots easier than if i use sword. charged shot is just as good, but not as flashy ( yea yeah i know... ill be quiet )

the TAS has shown me that nothing you do in the first tengu man autoscroller can make it go faster: the run acually waits for both whales to shoot all their birds and fly off the screen. This section is entirely time based and not kill dem enemies based. i don't get any partners cause it's badass.

The second tengu man auto scroller is the same deal except for the mini boss which dies fastest by beat. hitting it with anything else slows down its death due to invincibility frames, so i avoid getting any other partners who have minds of their own and tend to not like me.

The same goes for the Wily 2 stage rush jet, I dont get any partners because if they hit the boss while i am astro crashing, it might lead to it not dying like i want it to. I only have 4 shots with astro crash so i need them all to count as well.

I think that addresses all your concerns =D i would love to be convinced of any route changes though. I appreciate the input!

doicm

2012-04-27 12:01:28 pm

Ooooh, a post for this game. I just started running it this last week, got about 1:09 my first full run through for the Anniversary Collection on GCN. I'll have to study this and get back to you sometime.

Obdajr

2012-04-27 10:31:11 pm

cool man, i streamed a bit of this today; would love some input. its looking like a good time will be around 53 minutes on AC

doicm

2012-04-29 04:32:06 pm

Mmk, I looked at your 54:34 video (haven't looked at any others that you may have). Some of it was hard to follow (the video quality for me skipped frequently, but it didn't skip anything that was extremely important). So..my comments may vary from your current strats, and I won't include some things because...well, you did awesome:

*I know it's a little riskier, but it might save a few seconds getting Frost Man's bolt in the first snowboarding area. Other bolts are generally on the way (like Tengu Man's bolts and Grenade Man's bolts), but you go a little bit out of the way in Clown Man's stage to get a bolt at the beginning with the Rush Cycle. May save a few seconds.

*Since you only need 5 to get H. Slider, would it be better to buy it before going into Clown Man's stage, since you avoid the time wasted in the automatic globe rotating forward and backward after beating Duo? Either that, or I miscounted that you had only 4 bolts by the time you got to Clown Man's.

*I didn't think of charge shots on Aqua Man while using Astro Crusher. ...Well then, I see no point in having Energy Saver anymore.

*Another reason I see no point of E. Saver for Astro Crusher on Wily 2...no allies to assist in weak-hitting the boss. However, you did say you got lucky...so I dunno if that'd still be better or not to have E. Saver on this.

*On Bass with using Astro Crusher when he goes high...you're already doing that. No need for me to suggest it.

So..yeah, really, after watching that, I had nothing to suggest. Your run is awesome. Keep on going for sub 53. Smiley

Mmk, I looked at your 54:34 video (haven't looked at any others that you may have). Some of it was hard to follow (the video quality for me skipped frequently, but it didn't skip anything that was extremely important). So..my comments may vary from your current strats, and I won't include some things because...well, you did awesome:

*I know it's a little riskier, but it might save a few seconds getting Frost Man's bolt in the first snowboarding area. Other bolts are generally on the way (like Tengu Man's bolts and Grenade Man's bolts), but you go a little bit out of the way in Clown Man's stage to get a bolt at the beginning with the Rush Cycle. May save a few seconds.

*Since you only need 5 to get H. Slider, would it be better to buy it before going into Clown Man's stage, since you avoid the time wasted in the automatic globe rotating forward and backward after beating Duo? Either that, or I miscounted that you had only 4 bolts by the time you got to Clown Man's.

*I didn't think of charge shots on Aqua Man while using Astro Crusher. ...Well then, I see no point in having Energy Saver anymore.

*Another reason I see no point of E. Saver for Astro Crusher on Wily 2...no allies to assist in weak-hitting the boss. However, you did say you got lucky...so I dunno if that'd still be better or not to have E. Saver on this.

*On Bass with using Astro Crusher when he goes high...you're already doing that. No need for me to suggest it.

So..yeah, really, after watching that, I had nothing to suggest. Your run is awesome. Keep on going for sub 53. :)

doicm

2012-05-03 01:02:25 pm

I reduced my time to 1:05 today, but I'm realizing some things.

* Contrary to what I said in the comments about Obdajr's speed run, you cannot get the H. Slide before finishing off the first four robot masters. What he did was just fine, although it may be unnecessary to grab the extra bolts since that is the only thing you are getting.

* I hate the functionality in Tengu Man's stage with the mega ball skip. When you get to the top, if you don't have it timed properly, you cannot move to the left or to the right. Basically, it's easy to die there. I practiced it quite a bit today, and I think I have it down, but not to consistency.

* I had three deaths in my run (at least), all of them involving the last part of the snowboarding segment in either Frost Man's stage or Wily 1. I lost a lot of time there as a result. All of the deaths involved relying on Mega Ball to add an extra jump at the end of each segment...I'm not doing that again.

* Wily 3 is a pain.

* I had terrible RNG with the miniboss in Grenade Man and Sword Man. Miniboss went underground 4 or 5 times, and Sword Man was abusing Fire Slash like crazy.

* I made a modification in my strategy for Search Man's stage. On the last "hallway" before Search Man, I use Rush Cycle to skip everything and even open the door. Right after the door is open, I jump off Rush mid-jump and make it just fine. I don't know if you are using it in your run or not or if it even saves time, but I find it to be very helpful.

Anyway...just touching base with this. My goal is sub hour at least, and I hope to be able to provide at least some competition/feedback.

I reduced my time to 1:05 today, but I'm realizing some things.

* Contrary to what I said in the comments about Obdajr's speed run, you cannot get the H. Slide before finishing off the first four robot masters. What he did was just fine, although it may be unnecessary to grab the extra bolts since that is the only thing you are getting.

* I hate the functionality in Tengu Man's stage with the mega ball skip. When you get to the top, if you don't have it timed properly, you cannot move to the left or to the right. Basically, it's easy to die there. I practiced it quite a bit today, and I think I have it down, but not to consistency.

* I had three deaths in my run (at least), all of them involving the last part of the snowboarding segment in either Frost Man's stage or Wily 1. I lost a lot of time there as a result. All of the deaths involved relying on Mega Ball to add an extra jump at the end of each segment...I'm not doing that again.

* Wily 3 is a pain.

* I had terrible RNG with the miniboss in Grenade Man and Sword Man. Miniboss went underground 4 or 5 times, and Sword Man was abusing Fire Slash like crazy.

* I made a modification in my strategy for Search Man's stage. On the last "hallway" before Search Man, I use Rush Cycle to skip everything and even open the door. Right after the door is open, I jump off Rush mid-jump and make it just fine. I don't know if you are using it in your run or not or if it even saves time, but I find it to be very helpful.

Anyway...just touching base with this. My goal is sub hour at least, and I hope to be able to provide at least some competition/feedback.

obdajr

2012-05-03 01:03:31 pm

ok lets see...

i acually grab 6 bolts total, because all the ones that i grab are literally in my way.
grenade man: its faster to go up top rather than wait for the moving platform on the bottom
frost man: slide
tengu man: in the beginning of the stage, i could technically not grab this one i suppose, its just muscle memory at this point
tengu man: autoscroller
clown man: the only bolt i grab here is across the falling platforms in the first bell area (i dont grab the one on the bike) and its in the way.

i honestly cant remember where the 6th one is right now because i dont go outta the way to get it lol

you physically cant buy hyperslide until after you beat duo; its on the second page of itemes that isnt available until the latter half of the game

obdajr

2012-05-03 01:07:25 pm

rush bike at the end of search man is interesting: ill have to try that

also sorry about the quality on my videos. my stream setup is better now that i have an acual computer and acual internet

doicm

2012-05-03 02:28:32 pm

In any case, here's the highlight of the Rush Cycle strat. It may take about the same time as not using Rush Cycle overall, but you reduce the risk of dying/taking too much damage, and it just looks cool. This was the second attempt I tried this, but it's pretty poor considering how many obstacles I choose to hit:

http://www.twitch.tv/doicm/b/317020089

obdajr

2012-05-03 07:18:08 pm

i really wish that pausing the game didnt take five minutes. also you can probably just jump off the raised platform, shoot the gate and just jump in withouth having to durdle around back and forth. would take some practice though.

doicm

2012-05-04 12:50:32 am

It doesn't take nearly as long to pause and unpause in the PSX version...wonder why they did it the way they did in Anniversary Collection.

doicm

2012-05-16 03:25:16 pm

I got my time down to 57:11 today. I seem to get my best times after I choose to give up on this game.

It was one death in Tengu Man (couldn't move left or right on the second ball-bounce area), but the spawn point was right after the death so I didn't lose that much time. The run was pretty smooth besides that and other RNG-related issues. I've decided that these are the main things that can kill a speed run of this game, no matter how good you are playing (RNG-related):

* Grenade Man's miniboss, whether or not it decides to dive and how often.
* Whether or not you get Beat on the second flying part in Tengu Man's stage.
* Sword Man's attack pattern (Fire slash lags my game like crazy on GCN Anniversary Collection...only bad on his stage, but not on refight)
* Wily 2 ship boss...whether or not it decides to extend the middle part rather than the parts that actually matter. I know you can destroy the middle part and nullify the problem, but it's kinda hard when you only have 4 Astro Crushers.
* Wily 3 green jello boss...if it decides to make an attack after the first dive, it takes FOREVER.

That's basically it. I've got everything else down pretty good (except Wily 3...). My goal is to get sub 55 on this someday. I'll keep rooting for Obdajr to get sub 53 someday. I also look forward to seeing a run for this game on SDA.

I got my time down to 57:11 today. I seem to get my best times after I choose to give up on this game.

It was one death in Tengu Man (couldn't move left or right on the second ball-bounce area), but the spawn point was right after the death so I didn't lose that much time. The run was pretty smooth besides that and other RNG-related issues. I've decided that these are the main things that can kill a speed run of this game, no matter how good you are playing (RNG-related):

* Grenade Man's miniboss, whether or not it decides to dive and how often.
* Whether or not you get Beat on the second flying part in Tengu Man's stage.
* Sword Man's attack pattern (Fire slash lags my game like crazy on GCN Anniversary Collection...only bad on his stage, but not on refight)
* Wily 2 ship boss...whether or not it decides to extend the middle part rather than the parts that actually matter. I know you can destroy the middle part and nullify the problem, but it's kinda hard when you only have 4 Astro Crushers.
* Wily 3 green jello boss...if it decides to make an attack after the first dive, it takes FOREVER.

That's basically it. I've got everything else down pretty good (except Wily 3...). My goal is to get sub 55 on this someday. I'll keep rooting for Obdajr to get sub 53 someday. I also look forward to seeing a run for this game on SDA.

obdajr

2012-10-25 02:41:09 pm

Hey Update on my work on this game, new time is 53:19. here's a link for those who want to check it out!

http://www.twitch.tv/obdajr/c/1712646

doicm

2012-10-25 03:37:19 pm

You almost have sub 53! Keep up the awesome work!

Countdown42

2013-01-17 11:50:23 am

I am new to sda but I've been running mm8 on and off. Last I remember for a personal best was 58 so I'm also super interested in this run. Best of luck OP

Deathwiiish

2014-01-26 08:24:42 am

recently started running this game. Trying to set up a stream and do a few practice runs. I'll post a link when one is up for whoever wants to join and feedback is much appreciated. good luck Obdajr. Watched your run and your run is great.