Mechwarrior 2 31cc DOS Jade Falcon and Wolf Campaigns Any%

Edit history:

PROX: 2022-01-15 03:14:18 am

2022-01-15 03:06:54 am

I recently got the record for Jade Falcon after a few hours of attempts. I recorded both of these with OBS and used DOSbox emulation to get the game running on modern hardware. The DOSbox cycles were set to 130000. I ended up getting near perfect jet charge with a great framerate and no sensitive heat. The rules for this were for the difficulty to be on MEDIUM, and for no cheatcodes to be on such as no heat detection, unlimited jetting, etc.

I uploaded both of these runs on speedrun.com:
https://www.speedrun.com/mechwarrior_2/full_game

The runs themselves are here:

Jade Falcon

Wolf

The times I was racing against in the videos weren't actual times due to livesplit totaling all my best segments.

Thread title:

LotBlind

2022-01-15 12:57:05 pm

Sounds like you're not using official DOSBox settings (Steam or GOG -rerelease defaults)? If such rereleases exist, those are the preferable settings by default, unless they don't give everyone a level footing or there's another good reason not to use them.

There was a big update to our DOSBox settings thread, in the last post. Should be based on good research. I'm not posting this just for your benefit but in case someone should read this with the intention of submitting a run to SDA itself, in which case the settings you've chosen might be fine, but if they require too powerful of a PC and you lose time otherwise, they might not be. Give it a read in case there's something you didn't know.

Best of luck!

PROX

Edit history:

PROX: 2022-01-15 02:38:10 pm

PROX: 2022-01-15 02:35:01 pm

PROX: 2022-01-15 02:30:43 pm

PROX: 2022-01-15 02:30:19 pm

PROX: 2022-01-15 02:25:58 pm

PROX: 2022-01-15 02:23:45 pm

2022-01-15 02:23:11 pm

Quote from LotBlind:

Sounds like you're not using official DOSBox settings (Steam or GOG -rerelease defaults)? If such rereleases exist, those are the preferable settings by default, unless they don't give everyone a level footing or there's another good reason not to use them.

There was a big update to our DOSBox settings thread, in the last post. Should be based on good research. I'm not posting this just for your benefit but in case someone should read this with the intention of submitting a run to SDA itself, in which case the settings you've chosen might be fine, but if they require too powerful of a PC and you lose time otherwise, they might not be. Give it a read in case there's something you didn't know.

Best of luck!

The only real way to do it is with DOSbox, also based off of what I see, you guys seem to allow fixed cycles as long as they aren't too high. The way cycles work for this game is for jet recharge speed mainly. The game is coded so that it requires a specific framerate for everything to work properly. If the game is running too fast, then jets won't recharge, or they'll charge way too slowly. Even image enhancement in the game can be a factor for jet recharge as well. It's a bit jank, and you kind of need to play around with it to see which cycle setting will work for stable framerate and jetting recharge depending on your computer. My cycles are set to 130000 which really isn't that high, and I'm using a laptop which really isn't all that powerful. It gets the job done, but it's not amazing. If anyone does want to run the game, they'll probably have to make some adjustments on DOSbox before doing so. Having default settings may not work for some people. Ik they didn't for me, and I had to make some adjustments.

[quote="LotBlind"]Sounds like you're not using official DOSBox settings (Steam or GOG -rerelease defaults)? If such rereleases exist, those are the preferable settings by default, unless they don't give everyone a level footing or there's another good reason not to use them.

There was a big update to our DOSBox settings thread, in the [url=https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/official_dosbox_settings_discussion_topic_23.html]last post[/url]. Should be based on good research. I'm not posting this just for your benefit but in case someone should read this with the intention of submitting a run to SDA itself, in which case the settings you've chosen might be fine, but if they require too powerful of a PC and you lose time otherwise, they might not be. Give it a read in case there's something you didn't know.

Best of luck![/quote]

The only real way to do it is with DOSbox, also based off of what I see, you guys seem to allow fixed cycles as long as they aren't too high. The way cycles work for this game is for jet recharge speed mainly. The game is coded so that it requires a specific framerate for everything to work properly. If the game is running too fast, then jets won't recharge, or they'll charge way too slowly. Even image enhancement in the game can be a factor for jet recharge as well.  It's a bit jank, and you kind of need to play around with it to see which cycle setting will work for stable framerate and jetting recharge depending on your computer. My cycles are set to 130000 which really isn't that high, and I'm using a laptop which really isn't all that powerful. It gets the job done, but it's not amazing. If anyone does want to run the game, they'll probably have to make some adjustments on DOSbox before doing so. Having default settings may not work for some people. Ik they didn't for me, and I had to make some adjustments.

LotBlind

2022-01-16 11:19:06 am

Okay, that sounds like making some kind of exception could be warranted in this case then. If it's looking like the settings you've chosen give the same kind of experience for other runners as well (I suggest asking around to hear from others who play it), SDA is probably happy with them too. It really comes down to fair competition firstly and secondly whether it seems like the way the game was meant to play / would have played on period hardware (which is obviously also a variable). What are the GOG/Steam defaults BTW?

Do you mean if you zoom the view in, you get a slower recharge rate? Wow...

PROX

2022-01-16 10:45:35 pm

Quote from LotBlind:

Okay, that sounds like making some kind of exception could be warranted in this case then. If it's looking like the settings you've chosen give the same kind of experience for other runners as well (I suggest asking around to hear from others who play it), SDA is probably happy with them too. It really comes down to fair competition firstly and secondly whether it seems like the way the game was meant to play / would have played on period hardware (which is obviously also a variable). What are the GOG/Steam defaults BTW?

Do you mean if you zoom the view in, you get a slower recharge rate? Wow...

No, I mean image enhancement (wire frame mode) could potentially slow your jet recharge speed down. I kinda forgot what the default numbers are. I think when I got DOSbox originally, it started off as cycles=max, but I don't really remember. I know that there are other runners that run into slight jetting recharge issues on some missions. Ik that the settings I chose don't work for everyone as it would depend on the computer being used. If you want perfect performance, you'd probably need a DOS or a Win 95/2000 PC. With modern machines, settings seem to be up in the air. Best to just figure out what works for you in DOSbox.

[quote="LotBlind"]Okay, that sounds like making some kind of exception could be warranted in this case then. If it's looking like the settings you've chosen give the same kind of experience for other runners as well (I suggest asking around to hear from others who play it), SDA is probably happy with them too. It really comes down to fair competition firstly and secondly whether it seems like the way the game was meant to play / would have played on period hardware (which is obviously also a variable). What are the GOG/Steam defaults BTW?

Do you mean if you zoom the view in, you get a slower recharge rate? Wow...[/quote]

No, I mean image enhancement (wire frame mode) could potentially slow your jet recharge speed down. I kinda forgot what the default numbers are. I think when I got DOSbox originally, it started off as cycles=max, but I don't really remember. I know that there are other runners that run into slight jetting recharge issues on some missions. Ik that the settings I chose don't work for everyone as it would depend on the computer being used. If you want perfect performance, you'd probably need a DOS or a Win 95/2000 PC. With modern machines, settings seem to be up in the air.  Best to just figure out what works for you in DOSbox.

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2022-01-17 01:44:13 pm

LotBlind: 2022-01-17 01:29:44 pm

2022-01-17 01:17:40 pm

Okay, so it sounds like there is a clearly (?) defined maximum to how fast the game will run / the jet recharge thing? I.e. if you get over a certain threshold of CPU power (with the right DOSBox settings), everyone's runs will be on equal footing? Or does it just get better and better the faster your CPU? Judging by what you said "if you want perfect performance, you'd probably need a DOS or a Win 95/2000 PC", I guess if you're emulating, it's the latter more so than the former?

PROX

2022-01-17 08:38:09 pm

Quote from LotBlind:

Okay, so it sounds like there is a clearly (?) defined maximum to how fast the game will run / the jet recharge thing? I.e. if you get over a certain threshold of CPU power (with the right DOSBox settings), everyone's runs will be on equal footing? Or does it just get better and better the faster your CPU? Judging by what you said "if you want perfect performance, you'd probably need a DOS or a Win 95/2000 PC", I guess if you're emulating, it's the latter more so than the former?

They should be on equal footing if they have the right settings. The way the game works (and this applies to 3 as well) is that the game will run just fine so long as you have the game running at the target framerate (around 30fps I believe?). This is why cycles need to be manipulated for faster jet charge. If you find yourself above 30, the jet recharge will either be slower, or it won't happen altogether. You can get away with full charge below 30fps, but then it won't look as good. Everyone needs to find their sweet spot. I mentioned the DOS and Win 95/98/2000 because if you played on the original hardware that it was designed to play on, you shouldn't run into any issues. If you have a faster computer, you'll need to lower your cycle amount, but if you have a slower computer, then you'll need to increase your cycle amount.

[quote="LotBlind"]Okay, so it sounds like there is a clearly (?) defined maximum to how fast the game will run / the jet recharge thing? I.e. if you get over a certain threshold of CPU power (with the right DOSBox settings), everyone's runs will be on equal footing? Or does it just get better and better the faster your CPU? Judging by what you said "if you want perfect performance, you'd probably need a DOS or a Win 95/2000 PC", I guess if you're emulating, it's the latter more so than the former?[/quote]

They should be on equal footing if they have the right settings. The way the game works (and this applies to 3 as well) is that the game will run just fine so long as you have the game running at the target framerate (around 30fps I believe?). This is why cycles need to be manipulated for faster jet charge. If you find yourself above 30, the jet recharge will either be slower, or it won't happen altogether. You can get away with full charge below 30fps, but then it won't look as good. Everyone needs to find their sweet spot. I mentioned the DOS and Win 95/98/2000 because if you played on the original hardware that it was designed to play on, you shouldn't run into any issues. If you have a faster computer, you'll need to lower your cycle amount, but if you have a slower computer, then you'll need to increase your cycle amount.

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2022-01-18 09:18:31 am

2022-01-18 09:18:02 am

Ah! Okay, now I'm seeing the big picture here. So seeing as a faster computer doesn't automatically give advantages, maybe with this game we really don't need specific settings to be used for fair play.

Is the optimal cycles setting the same across the whole playthrough or does it vary a lot from level to level or situation to situation? Enough so someone might be tempted to adjust the setting during a run?

PROX

2022-01-18 01:45:29 pm

Quote from LotBlind:

Is the optimal cycles setting the same across the whole playthrough or does it vary a lot from level to level or situation to situation? Enough so someone might be tempted to adjust the setting during a run?

It can vary between missions depending the object amount on the screen, but if your cycles are where they need to be, then the risk is minimal. It could still happen, but overall, as long as you have the correct settings for your computer, it should be fine. Only issue I can see is that there could be potential framerate issues if the cycle settings are too low for faster computers. You'll get the most consistent results on the machines the game was designed for, so if anyone has a DOS or Win 95 lying around, it might as well be used, but if you don't have access to that, well, you're stuck with emulation.

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2022-01-20 12:42:56 pm

2022-01-20 12:42:07 pm

Hmm... If someone really sorts out the retro hardware to play and record natively, I guess we couldn't really separate categories between native and emulated with hypothetical SDA submissions (that's where my mind is mostly), so they'll have a little bit of an advantage. So yeah, seems that this game doesn't need specific settings the same for all. Emulated games are a nightmare but let's count our blessings I guess?

PROX

2022-01-21 05:09:07 pm

Right, this game is pretty nuts with emulation.

LotBlind

2022-04-14 12:20:36 pm

I just remembered about this video by Kris Asiic, who looked into what kinda damage the weapons actually deal. When he does such videos, he doesn't only restrict himself to knowledge that isn't already documented somewhere so maybe you already knew all this.