Mechanical keyboard for PC game speedrunning?

2013-06-28 03:04:13 am

I was wondering recently if going from a typical USB keyboard to a mechanical keyboard would improve your ability to speedrun PC games using the keyboard.

In particular I'm wondering the following things:
-Is it guaranteed to help? Likely? Can it hurt? Is it justifiable to throw down the money and try?
-What switches should I be after? ( http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mechanical-keyboard-guide#post_6009482 ) I assume that what switches I want changes based on whether I value keydown precision, release precision, mashing speed or doubletapping control more. Is it as simple as that?
-What about USB vs PS/2 interface? Does USB have a greater delay than PS/2, and is it a consistent delay? Does it even matter/has my brain already compensated from how long it's used USB keyboards for?
-Do speedrunners of PC games typically move to mechanical keyboards or just stick with what they're most familiar with?

These are two mechanical keyboards I'm looking at based on recommendations from other people:
http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional/
http://www.rosewill.com/products/1611/ProductDetail_Overview.htm
Both linked are blue switches but also have versions with other switches.

Thread title:

I was wondering recently if going from a typical USB keyboard to a mechanical keyboard would improve your ability to speedrun PC games using the keyboard.

In particular I'm wondering the following things:
-Is it guaranteed to help? Likely? Can it hurt? Is it justifiable to throw down the money and try?
-What switches should I be after? ( http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mechanical-keyboard-guide#post_6009482 ) I assume that what switches I want changes based on whether I value keydown precision, release precision, mashing speed or doubletapping control more. Is it as simple as that?
-What about USB vs PS/2 interface? Does USB have a greater delay than PS/2, and is it a consistent delay? Does it even matter/has my brain already compensated from how long it's used USB keyboards for?
-Do speedrunners of PC games typically move to mechanical keyboards or just stick with what they're most familiar with?

These are two mechanical keyboards I'm looking at based on recommendations from other people:
http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional/
http://www.rosewill.com/products/1611/ProductDetail_Overview.htm
Both linked are blue switches but also have versions with other switches.

Kiyura

Edit history:

Kiyura: 2013-07-01 07:43:21 am

Kiyura: 2013-07-01 07:42:38 am

Kiyura: 2013-07-01 07:42:13 am

Kiyura: 2013-07-01 07:41:57 am

Kiyura: 2013-07-01 07:41:08 am

Kiyura: 2013-07-01 07:40:30 am

2013-07-01 07:38:20 am

Wiiaboo

Yes, it will help. Most people who use mechanical keyboards after only using rubber-domes say it's a vast improvement, especially for gaming performance. No, it can't hurt and it's an easy transition. Yes, it's worth the money if you're an avid PC gamer.

The switches are almost purely preference. Using any kind of mechanical keyboard will be an improvement.

Blues and browns are generally considered "typing" switches, and they have actuation points (the point when the key will actually be "pressed") above the bottom of the switch. They also have bumps or releases that provide tactile feedback when activated. Browns simply have a bump on the guide, whereas blues are separated into two parts with different resistances. Therefore browns are the best switch to get if you want to quickly double-tap, since you can "float" them (though having owned one I can say you will often bottom out anyway), while blues are the best switch if you value tactile feedback above all else. Note that these are only considered "typing" switches because tactile feedback is important for prolonged typing. Many gamers swear by these switches, especially RTS gamers. Also note that browns are some of the softest sounding switches, while blues are very loud and clacky.

Reds and blacks are generally considered "gaming" switches. Their actuation point is at the bottom of the switch, with no feedback before that point. For this reason they are called linear switches. Think Playstation shoulder triggers (red/black) vs. Gamecube shoulder triggers (brown/blue). The only real difference between reds and blacks is that blacks have a high resistance and reds have a low resistance (so reds are easier to press). Reds and blacks are both noisier than browns, but less noisy than blues.

Again, pretty much entirely personal preference. The actual performance difference is negligible, it will mostly be what you think feels best. I personally prefer reds, because I like the feel and I also like having as little as possible between me and the actuation point. Other people think reds are horrible-feeling and too easy to make mistakes on.

As far as what brand to go with, avoid Das. They're way overpriced. Also avoid Rosewill - they have shoddy build quality. Your best bet is to go with a Cooler Master QuickFire with your switch of choice. CM QF's are basically rebranded Filco's. They have very good build quality and very reasonable prices.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=cooler+master+keyboard&N=-1&isNodeId=1

And no, the delay is the same between USB and PS/2, or at least it's too small of a difference for even speedrunners to care about. The main advantage of PS/2 is that it supports pressing more keys at the same time. You're very unlikely to ever hit the limit of a USB, though.

Yes, it will help. Most people who use mechanical keyboards after only using rubber-domes say it's a vast improvement, especially for gaming performance. No, it can't hurt and it's an easy transition. Yes, it's worth the money if you're an avid PC gamer.

The switches are almost [b]purely[/b] preference. Using any kind of mechanical keyboard will be an improvement.

Blues and browns are generally considered "typing" switches, and they have actuation points (the point when the key will actually be "pressed") above the bottom of the switch. They also have bumps or releases that provide tactile feedback when activated. Browns simply have a bump on the guide, whereas blues are separated into two parts with different resistances. Therefore browns are the best switch to get if you want to quickly double-tap, since you can "float" them (though having owned one I can say you will often bottom out anyway), while blues are the best switch if you value tactile feedback above all else. Note that these are only considered "typing" switches because tactile feedback is important for prolonged typing. Many gamers swear by these switches, especially RTS gamers. Also note that browns are some of the softest sounding switches, while blues are very loud and clacky.

Reds and blacks are generally considered "gaming" switches. Their actuation point is at the bottom of the switch, with no feedback before that point. For this reason they are called linear switches. Think Playstation shoulder triggers (red/black) vs. Gamecube shoulder triggers (brown/blue). The only real difference between reds and blacks is that blacks have a high resistance and reds have a low resistance (so reds are easier to press). Reds and blacks are both noisier than browns, but less noisy than blues.

Again, pretty much entirely personal preference. The actual performance difference is negligible, it will mostly be what you think feels best. I personally prefer reds, because I like the feel and I also like having as little as possible between me and the actuation point. Other people think reds are horrible-feeling and too easy to make mistakes on.

As far as what brand to go with, avoid Das. They're way overpriced. Also avoid Rosewill - they have shoddy build quality. Your best bet is to go with a Cooler Master QuickFire with your switch of choice. CM QF's are basically rebranded Filco's. They have very good build quality and very reasonable prices.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=cooler+master+keyboard&N=-1&isNodeId=1

And no, the delay is the same between USB and PS/2, or at least it's too small of a difference for even speedrunners to care about. The main advantage of PS/2 is that it supports pressing more keys at the same time. You're very unlikely to ever hit the limit of a USB, though.

Tranquilite

2013-07-01 09:41:19 pm

Quote:

Their actuation point is at the bottom of the switch, with no feedback before that point.

Only half true. Red and black switches will actuate halfway down (all cherry MX switches are like this), but have no tactile feedback like browns/blues.

Quote:

Also avoid Rosewill - they have shoddy build quality

I kind of disagree with this. Their build quality is pretty good for their price (when you can get them on sale), and their only problem is that their usb ports tend to get loose and sometimes break off (I have a rosewill keyboard, and mine has never had any issues). Rosewill's are probably the best choice for a fullsize keyboard as long as you baby the usb connector. I do particularly like the cooler master quick fire rapid though, and I thing is is probably the best mech keyboard on a quality/price scale. You should definitely get one of those if you don't mind giving up your numpad.

As for USB vs PS/2. PS/2 does signalling via interrupts while USB uses polling, so technically PS/2 will have the lowest latency, however from a practical standpoint you will be hard pressed to find an appreciable difference between the two.

As for switch choice, it really is a matter of personal preference. I've tried a number of different cherry MX switches, and I find that I particularly love reds the most. However, the clickyness of blues is pretty fun too, but you're much more likely to get complaints about the sound of them.

[quote]Their actuation point is at the bottom of the switch, with no feedback before that point.[/quote]
Only half true. Red and black switches will actuate halfway down (all cherry MX switches are like this), but have no tactile feedback like browns/blues.
[quote]Also avoid Rosewill - they have shoddy build quality[/quote]
I kind of disagree with this. Their build quality is pretty good for their price (when you can get them on sale), and their only problem is that their usb ports tend to get loose and sometimes break off (I have a rosewill keyboard, and mine has never had any issues). Rosewill's are probably the best choice for a fullsize keyboard as long as you baby the usb connector. I do particularly like the cooler master quick fire rapid though, and I thing is is probably the best mech keyboard on a quality/price scale. You should definitely get one of those if you don't mind giving up your numpad.

As for USB vs PS/2. PS/2 does signalling via interrupts while USB uses polling, so technically PS/2 will have the lowest latency, however from a practical standpoint you will be hard pressed to find an appreciable difference between the two.

As for switch choice, it really is a matter of personal preference. I've tried a number of different cherry MX switches, and I find that I particularly love reds the most. However, the clickyness of blues is pretty fun too, but you're much more likely to get complaints about the sound of them.

Patashu

2013-07-01 10:25:04 pm

Thank you a lot for the information. I might have to avoid blues then, as I'll be using the keyboard near others.

I would like to keep the numpad as I need that side of the keyboard for some applications and it would be awkward to need two keyboards/to swap keyboards. I'll look into Rosewill unless there are any other suggestions.

S.

2013-07-02 12:19:22 pm

My only problem with mechanical keyboards (or the one thing that kept me from switching), is that they are noisy.

Tranquilite

Edit history:

Tranquilite: 2013-07-02 12:59:54 pm

2013-07-02 12:58:58 pm

There are a number of ways to reduce noise. The first is to get linear switches (or browns) as they don't click when they actuate. The next largest source of noise is the sound that the keys make when they bottom out. There are two ways to reduce that. the first is to get good at typing such that you only press keys halfway to not bottom out, but this is kind of difficult as it takes a lot of practice to get consistent. The other way is to find plastic orings that go around the stem of each keycap and reduce the sound of keys bottoming out. I've heard a lot of good things about Orings, and the logitech G710 already comes with these apparently. Personally I find that plain 'ol mx reds are quiet enough for me. A bit louder than a typical keyboard, but not that much more than a typical rubber dome board.

nate

2013-07-02 04:17:55 pm

you can also eliminate everyone in the nearby area before you start typing. can't bitch when they're dead.

Pjoxt

2013-07-03 02:43:17 am

Yes, I'm a wizard.

I use a Steelseries 6gv2, which uses cherry mx black switches. I like it, most notable improvement is in shmups where you want to move very short distances to dodge bullets. I'd avoid clicky switches, especially blues, if you like playing shmups with keyboard.

DJS

2013-07-03 02:49:30 pm

torch slug since 2006

i use a das keyboard with cherry mx blue. its a bit too loud so im thinking about getting o-rings so i get rid of the bottoming out sound (touch typing is impossible). other than that im happy with it, not sure how much it will improve your gaming skillz though.

Vulajin

2013-07-03 03:48:19 pm

Forget gaming - you should use a mechanical keyboard at least for everyday typing. The feel is way better than any dome or scissor-switch keyboard you'll ever use. If clackiness is a problem for you, you are needlessly picky. If clackiness is a problem for others around you, you are keeping poor company. :p

z1mb0bw4y

2013-07-03 03:58:04 pm

Gets the cake.

MX blue user reporting in. Don't get blues if you have roommates or people who will otherwise hear you while typing or gaming. They are very clicky, though I got them because I like the tactile feel.

My next keyboard will be a MX black switch type, probably a Q-pad 105key ISO layout. I get a lot of complaints in skype about typing noise.

Kiyura

Edit history:

Kiyura: 2013-07-03 04:16:30 pm

2013-07-03 04:16:18 pm

Wiiaboo

Quote from Vulajin:

If clackiness is a problem for others around you, you are keeping poor company. :p

If you live or work with others and have no regard for what might be a constant, genuine nuisance to them, you might be the poor company.

KingDime

2013-07-05 01:56:34 pm

I switched to a steelseries 6gv2 after a while and have loved it for speedrunning and RTS gaming. Never was a fan of blues as I do have a problem with double clicking meaning blacks were the way to go in my case.

It's a very efficient keyboard and built like a tank making it excellent for reducing wear and tear and for lans since it's a very heavy board. (I can't tell you how frustrating it was to be at my first lan for sc2 and literally have the supplied keyboard shifting during the games). My only real complaint is that the keyboard is loud if you aren't using a headset mic on stream.

Patashu

2013-07-09 03:43:22 am

Ok, next question - mashing tips for brown switches? (Keep in mind I've always been a terrible masher and vibrator.)

It seems like vibrating with it full depressed is not the way to go, as the 'depression point' and 'release point' are not actually all the way down, but something like half way down. So I need to vibrate in a 'floaty' way?

Mooo

Edit history:

Mooo: 2013-07-09 04:10:01 am

2013-07-09 04:09:23 am

Anyone know of any good all-purpose, no bull mechanical keyboards that go for pretty cheap? I'm thinking of getting one to replace my Logitech K120.

Kiyura

2013-07-09 05:44:56 am

Wiiaboo

The Cooler Master search that I linked is about as cheap as you'll get new. You might be able to find cheaper prices on Amazon, too.

Azureblue

2013-07-09 08:18:36 am

Using a Mechanical Keyboard is not going to help your performance. Seriously. Believing it will is silly - it's all psychological, the difference is literally that the keys feel slightly different, mechanical keyboards aren't a coveted holy grail. It's very easy to hit the key rollover of a USB connection, so it's better to use a USB - PS/2 adapter, PS/2 is better overall anywho.

Most people who defend Mechanical Keyboards so much, well, I don't really understand them. Maybe it's because they spent so much money on it that they want to believe it was totally worth it.

For the record, I have a Filco Majestouch with Brown Cherry MX switches. It's nice, but it's not like you're going to buy it and suddenly have -10 seconds on every split, it's all psychological.

nate

2013-07-09 08:24:21 am

can't the psychology make you better?

Yagamoth

2013-07-09 09:07:16 am

INTJ

Quote from nate:

can't the psychology make you better?

In fact, speedrunning is A LOT about mentality, psychology and attitude, which all tie into motivation. So it most certainly helps Wink

Kiyura

Edit history:

Kiyura: 2013-07-09 09:33:17 am

2013-07-09 09:32:58 am

Wiiaboo

Categorically dismissing something is as silly as categorically affirming it. I don't think anyone was implying performance in the sense of literal speed. It's not like mech keyboards have better "horsepower" or somehow augment your fingers. Where they do make a difference is in 1) tactile feedback, translating to improved reactions, double-tapping and board travel, as well as less fatigue from softer and more controlled typing, and 2) typing comfort from striking mech rather than rubber switches, also translating to less fatigue. Both of these can, and in my experience do, affect your performance in the long term.

Freezard

2013-07-09 10:03:13 am

Quote:

-Do speedrunners of PC games typically move to mechanical keyboards or just stick with what they're most familiar with?

Um... I've never heard of people specifically moving to mechanical keyboards just for speedrunning. I think it's all up to preference. I've never tried one, but I've been using a Logitech UltraX Flat for years and it's excellent. It's sort of like a laptop keyboard. Could I stand a standard keyboard with high pads today? Probably, but it would take time to adjust. Unfortunately, production of UltraX Flat seems to have stopped, so I am forced to someday move to stuff I don't want to use (just like with MX518).

http://dobrochan.ru/src/jpg/1001/Logitech_UltraX_Keyboard.jpg

presjpolk

2013-07-09 10:43:04 am

HELLO!

A keyboard feeling better can make a huge deal. Feedback *matters*. Tactile feedback. Auditory feedback. People loved the old IBM keyboards because they were loud and they were satisfying to type on.

AdamAK

2013-07-09 11:45:31 am

Totally rad

Quote from Kiyura:

Categorically dismissing something is as silly as categorically affirming it.

Quote from Kiyura:

Yes, it will help. Most people who use mechanical keyboards after only using rubber-domes say it's a vast improvement, especially for gaming performance. No, it can't hurt and it's an easy transition. Yes, it's worth the money if you're an avid PC gamer.

The switches are almost purely preference. Using any kind of mechanical keyboard will be an improvement.

Good job making a silly post then.

Patashu: I've used both mechanical keyboards and cheap €10 keyboards for speedrunning, and the former made me play worse than the latter. See if you can try it out (at a friends place, or perhaps a store) before you commit to buying one. I wouldn't waste any money on it, but if you find yourself liking it a lot it could be worth the investment.

Kiyura

2013-07-09 12:30:16 pm

Wiiaboo

In my first post I was offering a requested opinion, not dismissing someone else's.