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slowbro: 2006-05-14 10:09:10 pm
I have one thing recorded already for Me & My Katamari, and I am in the process of recording two more ...

For this game I use PSP2TV.  I am now using the 16x9 widescreen mode because Nate says it is preferable over the 4x3 full screen mode.  Just to let you know, you can ruin a PSP by trying to connect a PSP2TV.  I did.  The one I am using now is a different one preinstalled to a PSP by modchipworld.com and still seems like it might not work all that long.  But it's held out thus far Smiley fingers crossed



Me And My Katamari is made up of a tutorial, 16 animal stages that each cover one or more of 16 map areas, 5 themed stages, and three 2-D bonus stages.  The 2-D don't work for speed-running, and neither do the tutorial or 4 of the 5 themed stages, so what's left are the animal stages and one themed stage (the rocket stage).

Running a single-segment through the game and running all 16 animal stages are both not feasible.  This game is not made for speed-running the way that the previous katamari games are.  When you reach the goal size you cannot cancel out and see your results; you have to wait for all your time to run out.  And, optimized runs through all 16 animal stages would repeat the same fast map areas over and over.

But there are three things I can think of that will work when running this game - a run through the longest animal stage that covers all the territory of all the other stages, 16 individual level runs through each map area rather than animal stage, and a short speedrun through the rocket stage.  I am already working on recording all three of these.


unnecessary info if you're really interested: There are 16 map areas; three for getting from 5cm to 20cm, three from 20cm-1m50cm, three from 1m50cm-10m, three from 10m-70m, three from 70m-500m, and one special one from 500m to 1500m.  The first five animal stages each cover only one of these areas, the next four cover two, then three, four, five, and the final animal stage (the one I ran) covers six, all the way from 5cm to 1500m.  In that stage you always start in the same 5cm-20cm map area, but then it randomly chooses for you a 20cm-1m50cm area, a 1m50cm-10m area and a 10m-70m area, then you get the 70m-500m area that corresponds to your last area and then the 500m-1500m area.  My current best is 6:39; if everything went right I could get a 6:30.



Then there are the 16 individual-map area runs and the rocket stage run.  For these I will need permission from Radix for two things: they have to be timed manually, and I would like to time them the way that katamari games time things - don't start the clock until you pick up the first object.  Does anybody know if these things will probably be acceptable?

I have recorded all but two of these videos; the other two are the two 5cm-20cm areas not covered in the animal stage I ran, and I need to practice these tons to work out decent routes.  I've saved the hardest two for last.  Of course I will still run the other stages more to try to improve my times too.



I really appreciate it if anybody was willing to read this whole post.  So, do people think the way I ran the game will be acceptable?  Do people think Radix will allow the manually-timed stages to be timed from the moment you pick up the first item rather than from the moment the player gains control of the character?  Does anybody that knows this game have any other suggestions?  Much more importantly than any of those, is anybody interested in seeing any of these videos? Smiley Thanks.
Thread title:  
i like to watch.
Quote:
For this game I use PSP2TV


how is this? i'm not very interested in the psp, but the psp2tv has me a little curious.

this is completely off-topic and i'm sorry.
Sleeping Terror
It would be more on-topic in the thread about the psp2tv, where you can already read the answer to the question you asked!
Edit history:
slowbro: 2006-05-14 10:12:07 pm
eeeek, too much info, I just edited the first post to be more to the point and to reflect my most recent progress.

I really need feedback on this.  Is anybody interested in seeing this run?  Can anybody answer any of the questions at the end of the first post?  Anything else?  Thanks if anybody helps with any of this.

I am officially excited about this run, by the way Smiley
I'd be interested in seeing this.  Good luck with it. Wink
Edit history:
slowbro: 2006-05-14 10:37:48 pm
thanks!
King of hearts
I have no idea about any of this because I've never played the Katamari games.  But they're fun to watch, so whatever you make I'll enjoy.
Edit history:
slowbro: 2006-05-15 06:02:09 pm
Cool, some people are interested, guess that's the most important thing Grin

There is another little issue, and that's how kinky the game's timer is.  Whenever there is any slowdown the gameplay barely slows down at all but the timer slows almost to a stop.  There is one stage with lots of slowdown that says you get 8 minutes but actually gives you about ten and a half because of all the slowdown.  I am only using the game's timer for the one long stage, so it will not be an issue for any of the other videos. 

The video where the game credits me with a 6:39 time actually takes close to 15 minutes.  Here are the reasons:
-I have to play for another three minutes after I complete the goal just to get the results screen to appear (the 3 minutes are okay to watch because I am huge and I get to pick up the King and all, but still I don't know if Radix would like this)
-There are tons of load times I have to wait through during the video.
-You can move around before the timer starts in each and every area along the way in order to pick out exactly where you want to start.  (Once you pick up an item the timer starts.)
-that slowdown thing I mentioned.



I guess my best bet will be to ask Radix himself the following:  Is it alright if 17 of the 18 videos are manually timed?  (probably yes)  Is [everything in that last paragraph] alright; could a video that takes 15 minutes be accepted as a 6:39 completion time?  (I'm guessing yes but I don't know, the 3-minutes-plus after reaching the goal might be a problem)  Can the manual timing be done the way katamari games do, starting the clock not when control is gained but instead when you pick up your first object?  (This is a tough call I think.  I think Radix would have to make an exception of SDA's normal rules in order to accept this.)

But if I understand correctly, right now is a bad time to ask Radix.  I think I'll ask him after he's done moving.

I think my videos will be decently entertaining, especially the one where I start out two inches tall and end up two miles plus.  Believe it or not that stage would lend itself to a segmented run, but my suspicion is that people would prefer to see a 6:39 single-segment video rather than a 6:25 or 6:30 segmented one. (Any opinions? Grin )
can go ahead and pm him - he's done moving afaik. just make things as clear as possible for someone who hasn't played the game.
Edit history:
slowbro: 2006-05-16 10:53:13 pm
Today was another heavy recording day for M&MK.  I haven't timed how well I did in the individual levels yet but I think I beat some of the ones I recorded two days ago.  And I spent another frustrating few hours trying the longer stage where I only complete the stage 1 out of every 27 tries (and that's if I don't make fatal mistakes).  I'm happy to report that I beat my best by five seconds.  I got a 6:34, with a 2-3 second mistake and several 1+ second mistakes.  So I've got a 6:34; barring a miracle or new strategies I think 6:30 is the best I could hope for.  I am still procrastinating trying to learn the two other individual levels well enough to run them.  Hopefully I'll work on them tomorrow or the next day, but not today.

I e-mailed Radix asking permission for the timing from the moment you pick up your first object and other things.  And I PMed Arrow about this, since he knows katamari games as well as I do (even though he never played this one because he has no PSP).  No replies yet.

I hope people enjoy my M&MK videos.  For the most part they are an absolute blast to make, since this game is so darn fun.

One kinda important question: Does anybody think I should run that longer stage segmented?  If I did a three-segment run I may well be able to get my time down to 6:25 or 6:30 and make it look smoother than my 6:34 I already recorded.  Or two segments.  But one argument not to run it segmented is that I already did short videos of all six areas of the stage as six of the 16 individual-level videos.  I'm leaning toward "no," but does anybody think I should do the segmented run?
Precursor
I got this game Monday, and I definitely see what you mean with that it's not suited for speedrunning like the previous games are. Haven't reached the final animal stage yet, panda was the last I played, but the runs you suggest sounds like it's the best way of doing it. So yeah, I'm interested in this. (and I need to watch those W<3K vids)

And you should do single-segment for that last stage. It wouldn't feel right to segment one stage in a katamari game Tongue

Also, out of interest, what is the minimum you need for the rocket to launch?
Edit history:
slowbro: 2006-05-17 08:18:54 pm
For the rocket, I think it's 30m.  Your "rating" changes at that amount.  But strangely, sometimes when I finish with 30m50cm or so the rocket does not launch, other times it does.  I don't really understand that.

One thing about this run vs. our WLK or Snapdragon's KD run, is that unlike the others the M&MK run won't really help players in the game.  M&MK concentrates so much on score rather than size and time, and my videos will be absolutely no help to people trying to learn how to get higher scores.

Segmented is probably out of the question Smiley I was hoping so.

Still no answer from Radix or Arrow Sad  If Radix decides timing has to be done from the moment you gain control of your character then I'll have to redo all the videos except the long one and I will have to rethink strategies.  But that certainly wouldn't be the end of the world, or the end of the run.

I finally ran Joushima Villa and Model Shop today.  I did okay I think; the game still said I had 4 minutes left when I finished Model Shop in some of my attempts.  So yay, I've filmed every level at least once.  I will make at least one more major attempt to improve my times.  But I think I'm done recording the long stage.
Edit history:
acxy500: 2006-05-17 08:34:24 pm
Another katamari run going on? Boy, you're on fire Grin
Edit history:
slowbro: 2006-05-22 04:04:56 am
Smiley I hope people enjoy watching a big ball roll around picking up stuff.  I enjoy rolling it.

But I am not the person I know who is best at katamari games.  Far from it.  Look at Yoshifan's WLK videos at

http://www.vortiginous.com/yoshifan/We%20Love%20Katamari/

Some of my WLK videos on SDA are just watered-down versions of his that take five seconds more than his.  They're as good as I can do, but far worse than Yoshifan's.  (Yoshifan says he'd like to get his vids on SDA but I haven't heard any more from him.)  And look at Yoda's times at

http://s9.invisionfree.com/Katamari_Damacy/index.php?showtopic=383

(I'm slo_bro) He has me beaten at every timed stage but one in the whole game (edit - Now he's got me beaten at every timed stage in the whole game).  He even has most of Yoshifan's times beaten.  And don't miss Anwonu's campfire stage times at the bottom of the page too.  Much better than the ones I have at SDA.  (I've spoken to both of them but it looks doubtful that Yoda or Anwonu will record any videos.  That is a real shame.)

Snapdragon is at very least as good as me at katamari; his KD vids require more and better planning than any of mine in WLK or M&MK.  The three people that ran WLK with me, and several others, are all at least as good at katamari games as me.

I do have my distinctions though - I seem to be the one the most motivated to record katamari for SDA, and I am the only one with the means to record PSP Tongue



edit: I have officially proven that I am a hypocrite.  Remember how I said in my WLK run comments that I did not use the rolling while the King's still talking method very much because to me it felt like cheating?  Well, I use that method in every single stage in M&MK.  Just an interesting note.

edit 2: Another interesting note, I have not completely forgotten about the original Katamari Damacy.  I would have started recording improvements to Snapdragon's KD videos a long time ago, but I can't come close to any of his.  I would record a Katamari Damacy single-segment except I am not nearly good enough (yet).


edit 3: Arrow responded, and he thinks I will probably have to follow SDA's usual rules (timing begins the moment you gain control of your character).  I'm still waiting on Radix's response, but for now that's what I will count on.
Edit history:
slowbro: 2006-05-27 04:16:52 am
Radix responded.  Looks like all videos, including the long one, are to be timed by this site's standard: from the time control is gained.  This takes away a bit of katamari-game strategy, but obviously it is alright.  Time to start redoing my videos.

edit: I recorded for hours today Grin  What I've got now is probably better than what I had made when I wasn't following the rules.

I will do one more lengthy recording session within the next few days, and then I think I'll be ready to submit!

edit: I think I'm done recording individual levels.

I still might take another serious shot at recording a better long video.  But other than that, I am just waiting on final word from Radix on whether or not I can use the game's timer in the long video, and then either way I am ready to submit my videos.  If Radix responds soon and if I don't discover any new strategies or anything, I plan to have all my Me and My Katamari videos submitted by Friday.  And I will soon submit three or four replacement We Love Katamari videos too Smiley

I finally can answer KennyMan's question ...

Quote:
Also, out of interest, what is the minimum you need for the rocket to launch?


You have to reach a certain rating, I think it's "pretty hot."  I always reach this at around 30-31m, but it is not based on diameter.  The rating is based on something else, probably number of items collected.

edit: In case anybody's wondering, I think I've done all the recording I will do.  And it's pretty good, except for the fact that twice I paused for multiple seconds at times that would not be timed by the game's timer but that will be timed by SDA timing.  I should try to redo this level but it's the one where only 1 in 27 attempts I get all the right regions, and I don't feel the will to try it again.