Mark of the Ninja (PC/XBLA)

2014-03-31 07:16:39 am

OLV

Quote from Chazney:

I just realised that I have been unlocking doors without thinking about it and that would be an item usage.

I disagree. On the other items (swords, daggers, grapple, smoke bombs...) you have to pick something up somewhere in the level, even if you automatically get it at the end of the level anyway. This is not true for unlocking - you can do it immediately on the first level (saving ninjas and Azai) without having picked anything up, making this an innate ability that the ninja has, not an item that is picked up.

ChazneySR

Edit history:

ChazneySR: 2014-03-31 10:09:55 am

ChazneySR: 2014-03-31 10:07:45 am

2014-03-31 10:06:27 am

I feel that defining item as anything that uses a tool removes all exceptions from the category. The slide is an upgrade for example that you don't have from the very beginning but shouldn't be considered an item. There aren't many optional lock picks anyway, the only one I can think of right now is level 3, perhaps there is one in level 12 too. So I can remove those and call it a day.

Everyone should learn Budget% once I get the first video up by the way, I think it would make for a funny race category because of the amount of dumb that can happen everywhere.

KingdomNerdia

2014-05-23 09:18:35 pm

OLV

I had to search to find this thread, guys. Sacrilege.

In other news, new S&S% WR at 1:07:04. I'm hoping to get that down to around 1:04:xx, and then I'll try and record and stuff for SDA.

ChazneySR

Edit history:

ChazneySR: 2014-05-25 06:36:04 pm

2014-05-25 10:54:55 am

Yeah, it's a little dead in here now. I have my last exam next week then I should be able to start running for sub-19:30 and beyond for Any%. I would like 18:xx if possible.

Updated with your new run, btw.

ClysmiC

Edit history:

ClysmiC: 2014-06-12 12:14:48 pm

ClysmiC: 2014-06-12 12:14:40 pm

2014-06-12 12:13:41 pm

I've kind of had the urge to get back into doing NG+ no-OoB runs, but I'm still hesitant due to inconsistent loading times and the fact that the game performs pretty poorly on my computer. When I ran it, I had to lower the in-game resolution by a lot, and I would still lose some fps in the final few levels, not to mention the fact that the game crashed for me once every 3-4 hours, which ended many good runs. If it weren't for all these things, I probably wouldn't have stopped running it, but I might see if I can tinker around in the configuration or something to lower the graphics even more than they are supposed to go, or find some other way to get the performance to be consistent.

Anyways, a few months ago I posted about timing runs without loading times. Since I've been thinking about the game, I was curious how my run compared to the WR run if loading times are factored out, and here is what I found.

My run: 36:20 with loading times / 35:34 without loading times ------ 46 seconds of loading times
WR run: 35:37 with loading times / 34:59 witohut loading times ------ 38 seconds of loading times

I kept in the menus that have to navigated/skipped between these levels, as these are consistent and do not depend on computer performance.

So, loading times account for about 40 seconds (during a NG+ no-OoB run, but should be same for all categories that only beat the game once). As I was worried, I pretty much lost free time due to loading times. And my loading times were abnormally fast during my run, they usually each last a good 1-2 seconds longer. So on a typical run, I wouldn't be surprised if I lose upwards of 15 seconds due to loading times. Chazney's run is still definitely much better than mine, even without loading times, but if I do runs in the future, I will probably judge myself based on the time without loading times. However, it's kind of a pain in the ass to have to go through the video frame by frame to find exactly when each loading screen starts and ends, and it's a huge buzzkill not always knowing for sure whether you got a PB/WR as soon as the run ends. These reasons make me not really want to run the game again... idk.

Well that's all I really have to say about loading times, but I also just noticed Serenity Sliding in the OP for the first time, it look's like a pretty cool glitch. Fun little fact, I actually got a serenity slide in a race that I did in September 2013, but I just wrote it off as a strange little glitch, and for some idiotic reason, I didn't try to find a way to consistently recreate it. Mad props to Semmlbroesl for finding the setup for it. I actually uploaded my serenity slide the day that I got it, so here is (potentially) the first recorded serenity slide ever Tongue

Anyways, since I haven't played aroud with it yet, is it used in any of the routes? It seems like you'd have to get a somewhat long slide to make it worth it, since you have to stop and focus to set it up. I'm mainly concerned about routes that would be viable for NG+ no-OoB since that is the only category I'm interested in running, but I think the WR for NG+ no-OoB was recorded before serenity sliding was discovered, so I figured I'd just ask you guys if it is useful anywhere instead of looking through the WR vids for all of the other categories.

I've kind of had the urge to get back into doing NG+ no-OoB runs, but I'm still hesitant due to inconsistent loading times and the fact that the game performs pretty poorly on my computer. When I ran it, I had to lower the in-game resolution by a lot, and I would still lose some fps in the final few levels, not to mention the fact that the game crashed for me once every 3-4 hours, which ended many good runs. If it weren't for all these things, I probably wouldn't have stopped running it, but I might see if I can tinker around in the configuration or something to lower the graphics even more than they are supposed to go, or find some other way to get the performance to be consistent.

Anyways, a few months ago I posted about timing runs without loading times. Since I've been thinking about the game, I was curious how my run compared to the WR run if loading times are factored out, and here is what I found.

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhpUgFZc0Po"][b]My run:[/b][/url] 36:20 with loading times / 35:34 without loading times ------ [b]46 seconds of loading times[/b]
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GzlRTUhU_g"][b]WR run:[/b][/url] 35:37 with loading times / 34:59 witohut loading times ------ [b]38 seconds of loading times[/b]

I kept in the menus that have to navigated/skipped between these levels, as these are consistent and do not depend on computer performance.

So, loading times account for about 40 seconds (during a NG+ no-OoB run, but should be same for all categories that only beat the game once). As I was worried, I pretty much lost free time due to loading times. And my loading times were abnormally fast during my run, they usually each last a good 1-2 seconds longer. So on a typical run, I wouldn't be surprised if I lose upwards of 15 seconds due to loading times. Chazney's run is still definitely much better than mine, even without loading times, but if I do runs in the future, I will probably judge myself based on the time without loading times. However, it's kind of a pain in the ass to have to go through the video frame by frame to find exactly when each loading screen starts and ends, and it's a huge buzzkill not always knowing for sure whether you got a PB/WR as soon as the run ends. These reasons make me not really want to run the game again... idk.

Well that's all I really have to say about loading times, but I also just noticed Serenity Sliding in the OP for the first time, it look's like a pretty cool glitch. Fun little fact, I actually got a serenity slide in a race that I did in September 2013, but I just wrote it off as a strange little glitch, and for some idiotic reason, I didn't try to find a way to consistently recreate it. Mad props to Semmlbroesl for finding the setup for it. I actually uploaded my serenity slide the day that I got it, so here is (potentially) the first recorded serenity slide ever :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWyPMI4IIoU

Anyways, since I haven't played aroud with it yet, is it used in any of the routes? It seems like you'd have to get a somewhat long slide to make it worth it, since you have to stop and focus to set it up. I'm mainly concerned about routes that would be viable for NG+ no-OoB since that is the only category I'm interested in running, but I think the WR for NG+ no-OoB was recorded before serenity sliding was discovered, so I figured I'd just ask you guys if it is useful anywhere instead of looking through the WR vids for all of the other categories.

seka

2014-06-13 09:25:07 am

Hey there,

I don't run this game, but I'm just curious. Would a NG or NG+ glitchless no alarm/gunshot be interesting ? That is how I liked to play when it came out, and I'm wondering if this would be a nice challenge or not.

KingdomNerdia

Edit history:

KingdomNerdia: 2014-06-29 09:29:42 am

2014-06-29 09:26:38 am

OLV

Seka: Apologies for not answering your question sooner, I haven't been checking the thread as of late... Wombat was doing an "Obake" run which was no alarm/no gunshot in NG. I believe his record was somewhere between 40 and 60 minutes... It should be on the first page of the thread. He is the only one who has run that category, however.

Clysmic: When we brought up Serenity Slide a couple pages ago, Chaz and I had a discussion in skype about its usability. The consensus we came to was that, since it would be difficult to pull off in a run, and would save (at most) 2-5 seconds in optimal conditions, we decided that it was really only worth it if you could extend the slide out over a drop. Since you conserve speed through the air, you can keep your speed all the way to the ground, instead of it normally running out after a little bit. We did not do any routing in Any% or No OoB with this glitch in mind, and I don't think anyone has made a serious attempt to lower the No OoB time significantly since Chazney's old WR. Again, sorry it took me a bit to respond: life's been super busy, and I haven't been checking the forum as much.

=edit= OH. Good luck on your SRC run that's coming up soon. PM me or something with the schedule, so I know when you run, and I'll definitely tune in. If you wanted skype commentary or something, I'd be down for that also.

In other news, I found a fun glitch which accomplishes nothing except being funny. Uploaded to YouTube for hilarity.

Seka:  Apologies for not answering your question sooner, I haven't been checking the thread as of late...  Wombat was doing an "Obake" run which was no alarm/no gunshot in NG.  I believe his record was somewhere between 40 and 60 minutes...  It should be on the first page of the thread.  He is the only one who has run that category, however.

Clysmic: When we brought up Serenity Slide a couple pages ago, Chaz and I had a discussion in skype about its usability.  The consensus we came to was that, since it would be difficult to pull off in a run, and would save (at most) 2-5 seconds in optimal conditions, we decided that it was really only worth it if you could extend the slide out over a drop.  Since you conserve speed through the air, you can keep your speed all the way to the ground, instead of it normally running out after a little bit.  We did not do any routing in Any% or No OoB with this glitch in mind, and I don't think anyone has made a serious attempt to lower the No OoB time significantly since Chazney's old WR.  Again, sorry it took me a bit to respond: life's been super busy, and I haven't been checking the forum as much.

=edit= OH.  Good luck on your SRC run that's coming up soon.  PM me or something with the schedule, so I know when you run, and I'll definitely tune in.  If you wanted skype commentary or something, I'd be down for that also.

In other news, I found a fun glitch which accomplishes nothing except being funny.  Uploaded to YouTube for hilarity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7xSGmFvS2g

stik

2014-06-30 05:17:43 pm

Hey guys. Been watching the runs of this for awhile, really good stuff. I was thinking of trying to develop a low score run for this game. Has anyone tried that before? Seems like it could be pretty fun in its own way.

Ideally it could be a 0 point run, but this is as close as I could get in the prologue. If anyone has any ideas of ways to erase points, let me know. You get 500 points for rescuing the last guy and then it immediately fades to cutscene so it's hard to erase those points. I'm going to go through and see how many of the levels are 0-pointable, as I think an overall 0 point run could be pretty funny if it were still pretty short.

stik

2014-06-30 07:22:36 pm

Never mind, got out with 0 points. This seems pretty doable on the first two levels.

KingdomNerdia

2014-07-01 06:57:40 am

OLV

Losing points is typically pretty easy. You lose points every time you're spotted, and you can get spotted an infinite number of times. In order to also do it fast, though, you'd have to find the most convenient way to get spotted as you went through each level. It shouldn't be too bad.

Were you doing this no-OoB, or with OoB glitches?

stik

2014-07-01 12:07:27 pm

Yeah, unfortunately I think it's not a great category because the only way to lose points is through the alarm, which isn't super interesting. I used OOB glitches, but you can't skip too much or else you will skip guards, which will earn you points at the end of the level. You have to alert every guard in the level in order to score 0 points, which makes the route pretty different.

KingdomNerdia

2014-07-04 08:18:05 am

OLV

I guess it may be one of those "sounds interesting, but sucks in practice" kind of things. Cool idea, though.

If you're still interested in running the game, New Game + No Alarms or New Game Any% sound like things you might enjoy. There are videos on this thread...somewhere of NGAny%, and New Game+ No Alarms would be easy to route.

Semmlbroesel

2014-09-08 05:13:04 pm

Not sure if anybody still runs this at all. But I've been doin some derust runs today and had this fun thing happen. Just thought people would like to see Smiley

http://www.twitch.tv/semmlbroesel/c/5088462

ReyalS

Edit history:

ReyalS: 2014-09-15 08:08:51 am

2014-09-15 07:57:44 am

Hello everyone,

I'm a huge fan of this game but hasn't started to speed run until I've seen the RE4 speedrun from dieyouevildruaga, then I started to speed run on RE4.
I was searching but didn't find any speedrun on NG / No glitch for Mark of the ninja, if anyone have a link to a video I'm interested, thx !

Here is the potential speedrun that interrest me but on which one I didn't found anything on it :
- NG without OOB
- NG no detection without OOB
- NG without glitch
- NG without glitch / no detection

Even on RE4 I'm not a fan of the NG+ because I prefer to achieve speedrun with the base items of the game I find this more difficult (and I'm more proud of myself).

KingdomNerdia

2014-12-27 05:10:49 pm

OLV

Got back into this over Christmas break. Here's my first run after 6 months off (NG any%)

Was pretty fun. Happy to get a low-30s number after being WAY out of practice and remembering the route this afternoon. If any of y'all are around/read this, we could do a race...

ChazneySR

2015-01-01 11:25:52 am

I don't really have time to speed run any more unfortunately. I recently got an invite to the SDA Twitch team page, so I may come back to running at some point as it would be nice to represent MotN at GDQ sometime (probably no-OoB, NG+ any% didn't really get a positive response from the community I noticed).

All this is speculation right now, of course. I have no idea when or if I will be able to return to running. If I do return, I likely won't be doing NG+ Any%. I will probably focus on no-OoB Obake, since the community seems most interested in glitchless stealth runs, which are in pretty short supply.

Styng

Edit history:

Styng: 2015-01-05 02:59:42 pm

Styng: 2015-01-05 02:57:38 pm

Styng: 2015-01-05 02:57:16 pm

Styng: 2015-01-03 04:50:32 pm

Styng: 2015-01-03 04:48:49 pm

Styng: 2015-01-03 04:48:09 pm

2015-01-03 04:47:05 pm

As each new year involves to make resolutions, I decided to speed run MotN again and get a decent time on NG+ no-OoB, and, to be honest, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one !

So, I started to play aaaand I found a glitch practicing the Level 4 :

I think we could save 1 seconde using this glitch but it is extremely hard to reproduce (so unaccurate...).

@KingdomNerdia, the splits from your last run is with or without OoB ? Because I would be curious to see the split of your level 3 if you ran it without OoB. (you would have 1 minute less than my best split on it)

ChazneySR

Edit history:

ChazneySR: 2015-01-05 03:25:25 pm

2015-01-05 03:23:27 pm

Could you explain the input timings? is it just similar to the timings used for laser skips? It doesn't really save much time as you said, but it would but it would be nice to explore. The main question I have is whether it is the hooks causing it or just jump cancelling the grapple animation a little too early so it maintains grapple speed through the air. If it is the latter, there may be more use for it elsewhere.

P.S. Kingdom's run is titled NG Any%, which is OoB with a clean save.

Styng

2015-01-05 03:42:18 pm

I can't really explain this glitch but I have some pieces of the puzzle :
- I only reproduce this bug when the character seems to be in the ceiling just after the 1st jump.
- It's looks like you keep the speed cancelling the grapple at the very moment you touch the hook, so it should be almost frame perfect.
- The orientation of your joystick seems important : I mean that when I cancel the grap, I slightly pull down the joystick and I believe this is the fact which influence how far your character will land.

Anyway, it looks like we could find ways to give a glitched speed to the character. (as Clysmic reported in is last post)

ChazneySR

Edit history:

ChazneySR: 2015-01-05 03:58:26 pm

ChazneySR: 2015-01-05 03:58:23 pm

2015-01-05 03:57:41 pm

I didn't see Clysmic's post, it was a while ago. I agree that loading screens are bad and make high level competitive running of the game pretty unappealing, although I think there is more than just that. I think we weighed up the options previously, and it was a throwup between taking the ILs of a run (which is obviously terrible since equipment selection is very important) or just timing loading screens. It doesn't need to be frame perfect timing unless 2 times fall within a few seconds of each other, and someone watching a posted run could run a timer beside it to get an actual time. But naturally the problems are still there with not knowing how well a run is going.

I pre-load all the level resources before hand to keep a consistent loading time. That is, if I beat my run even by like 10 seconds, it is unlikely to be loading times that caused it. The game isn't very competitive and really won't be until we run a category like no-OoB or no-OoB stealth runs at GDQ. I feel the glitched category has become too silly to be taken seriously. I can beat the WR using newly discovered techniques by like 30 seconds, potentially even 50+ (creating an 18:xx), but I don't really want to run it any more.

As I have said, even though I have not been running, I have been observing the small community interested in MotN speed running, and no-OoB stealth runs are very heavily favored. If we run MotN at GDQ in the future, I feel this should be the category.

I didn't see Clysmic's post, it was a while ago. I agree that loading screens are bad and make high level competitive running of the game pretty unappealing, although I think there is more than just that. I think we weighed up the options previously, and it was a throwup between taking the ILs of a run (which is obviously terrible since equipment selection is very important) or just timing loading screens. It doesn't need to be frame perfect timing unless 2 times fall within a few seconds of each other, and someone watching a posted run could run a timer beside it to get an actual time. But naturally the problems are still there with not knowing how well a run is going.

I pre-load all the level resources before hand to keep a consistent loading time. That is, if I beat my run even by like 10 seconds, it is unlikely to be loading times that caused it. The game isn't very competitive and really won't be until we run a category like no-OoB or no-OoB stealth runs at GDQ. I feel the glitched category has become too silly to be taken seriously. I can beat the WR using newly discovered techniques by like 30 seconds, potentially even 50+ (creating an 18:xx), but I don't really want to run it any more.

As I have said, even though I have not been running, I have been observing the small community interested in MotN speed running, and no-OoB stealth runs are very heavily favored. If we run MotN at GDQ in the future, I feel this should be the category.

Ereanith

2015-01-08 03:31:13 pm

Hey boys! I'm back, and I'm ready to start running again. I will be starting off doing some NG runs to get back into it, and maybe start doing some S&S and maybe no-OoB runs. If anyone wants to do some races or anything, I'm back now.

Fuzin

2015-01-14 11:07:47 am

Indian Ocean bro!

Hey everyone. I'm starting to speedrun this game since it's one of my favorite game but I have a question. If there is a patch that now prevent you from teleporting through walls how can the WR still doing it? Maybe we should make a new kind of runs post-patch, isn't it? Or if all the runs are pre-patch how can I have the game pre-patch?

Ereanith

2015-01-14 03:34:50 pm

Fuzin, we do have, technically, separate categories for pre, and post patch that did fix the serenity glitch. There is a way to revert back to the old patch, but I, unfortunately don't know how to do that. Chazney would be the one to ask, if I could get a hold of him, I will for you. You could PM him on here or I will try to talk with him. This also reminds me, we should probably start doing pre and post patch NG any%, but effort.

Also, has anyone created or is maintaining an IL spreadsheet? Because we should do that.

Semmlbroesel

2015-01-14 05:48:46 pm

I am back as well, at least a little. First run was a race vs Austin. Got like a 45+ run. So I'm already back to my standards (not) :X

Ereanith

2015-01-14 05:51:53 pm

Might not have totally beat Semml's PB in that race with him, after like how many months? Five maybe? Whoops.