Mark of the Ninja (PC/XBLA)

ChazneySR

2014-03-07 06:13:03 am

Ah, I got the thread! I'll start updating the front page. =)

KingdomNerdia

2014-03-07 09:58:38 am

OLV

We also officially have a drop-down bar now. =D

Also, I thought that No-OoB specifically meant no Focus Fly, no Serenity Glitch, and no Wallkicks?

ChazneySR

Edit history:

ChazneySR: 2014-03-07 10:36:21 am

2014-03-07 10:35:40 am

There are other ways to go OoB than those 3. It's much easier to describe it generally than list off every glitch that can take you out of bounds, and I think that is a good description of it, since things like laser skips are regular paths making 'good use of game mechanics'. Basically, it boils down to whether or not you can do the route (that is, navigate the route in god mode) with 0 glitches, then you are allowed to use whatever glitches to do that route. An example that borders this description is the level 12 dojo. You can reset at checkpoint to activate the lights which is obviously a glitch, but you can physically do the route of turning the cranks without glitches. Of course, that is not OoB at all, but it is an example of how the description fits nicely.

KingdomNerdia

2014-03-21 04:59:06 pm

OLV

Just poking in to bring this back to the top, and to say that I improved my NG S&S% time by ~1 minutes, so time is now 1:11:xx. I didn't record it, so doesn't count for WR or any shit, and there's still enough mistakes for me to be confident that a sub-hour run might be possible.

Here's hoping. I'll do another couple runs over the next few days, and may stream.

ChazneySR

2014-03-22 02:02:42 am

Are you sure? 12 minutes is a hell of a lot to ask for, though it's always nice to push a 1 hour run into sub-1 hour territory. Speaking of which, once I'm done with university I may revisit my full game run since that run is rotting away and it should be a nice run to relax with since it is long and open to mistakes.

I'm also considering some kind of no-OoB stealth run using no items or upgrades (aside mission critical item usage, such as the sword to kill Kelly). This would be the ultimate stealth run and I feel it would be open to a lot of interesting routing. I have no idea what I would call the category, probably 'Budget Ghost' or something.

KingdomNerdia

2014-03-22 11:28:35 am

OLV

Quote:

Are you sure? 12 minutes is a hell of a lot to ask for

It might be a -bit- much, but I dunno. Y'all know that I suck at this game, and the runs that I'm doing now are not really optimized, with some heavy mistakes on lvls 3 and 11. If I can get those two levels cleaned up, and drop a couple seconds on other levels, I can at least get it somewhere between 1:00 and 1:10.

No items sounds ridiculously challenging. No grapple or darts? That'll be insane.

ChazneySR

Edit history:

ChazneySR: 2014-03-22 04:53:44 pm

2014-03-22 01:27:11 pm

My initial idea was an undistracted run as the true stealth run, but it is impossible without OoB. This was the next closest thing I could think of. Sure it is challenging, but its always nice to have more runs that are full of improvements, specifically routing improvements. I need to run each level and see just how feasible it is. There are areas in the game that are impossible without item usage which can be defined as 'mission critical', such as the lasers after the smoke bomb in level 3. Though I guess that's like saying "I'm going to do a ringless Sonic speedrun except I have to get this ring, this ring and this ring", so who knows.

It could use a low% type ruling in which a slower WR can be set if it uses less items. This allows item usage, but if a run uses less items than another run, it is automatically a WR. Eventually, the route will stabilise and it will come down to the quickest run until someone finds a really clever way to avoid a once thought mandatory item usage.

Another option could be No-OoB Obake with the possible exception of making it pacifist. I feel the OoB and ability to dart guards to death diminishes the stealth aspect of a stealth run. The less you do to a guard, the more 'stealth' it is.

My initial idea was an undistracted run as the true stealth run, but it is impossible without OoB. This was the next closest thing I could think of. Sure it is challenging, but its always nice to have more runs that are full of improvements, specifically routing improvements. I need to run each level and see just how feasible it is. There are areas in the game that are impossible without item usage which can be defined as 'mission critical', such as the lasers after the smoke bomb in level 3. Though I guess that's like saying "I'm going to do a ringless Sonic speedrun except I have to get this ring, this ring and this ring", so who knows.

It could use a low% type ruling in which a slower WR can be set if it uses less items. This allows item usage, but if a run uses less items than another run, it is automatically a WR. Eventually, the route will stabilise and it will come down to the quickest run until someone finds a really clever way to avoid a once thought mandatory item usage.

Another option could be No-OoB Obake with the possible exception of making it pacifist. I feel the OoB and ability to dart guards to death diminishes the stealth aspect of a stealth run. The less you do to a guard, the more 'stealth' it is.

KingdomNerdia

2014-03-23 12:54:33 pm

OLV

There's two levels of guard response: alert and alarm. A no-alert would automaticaly rule out kunai-spam as well as kick strats, but would be -really- friggin difficult. I've always thought that ultra-stealth pacifist was the ultimate way to run this game, but I've never tried it.

ChazneySR

Edit history:

ChazneySR: 2014-03-23 04:29:56 pm

ChazneySR: 2014-03-23 01:08:03 pm

ChazneySR: 2014-03-23 01:07:55 pm

ChazneySR: 2014-03-23 01:06:29 pm

2014-03-23 01:05:06 pm

Quote from KingdomNerdia:

A no-alert would automaticaly rule out kunai-spam as well as kick strats, but would be -really- friggin difficult.

It's impossible without OoB, you can't even do level 1 since there is a guard that barely clips you with his torch just before the chandelier room.

Quote:

I've always thought that ultra-stealth pacifist was the ultimate way to run this game

If you look around, many people feel the same way. I may look into budget% using the low% ruling I described above. I feel this would be very close as a good stealth category.

KingdomNerdia

2014-03-23 02:28:22 pm

OLV

Quote from Chazney:

It's impossible without OoB, you can't even do level 1 since there is a guard that barely clips you with his torch just before the chandelier room.

It's possible either no-alert or pacifist, not both. With OoB, you could do no-alert pacifist, which might be interesting.

Also, fak, no-alert is friggin hard.

ChazneySR

2014-03-23 04:32:39 pm

I don't think stealth runs should use OoB personally. The reason I want to do budget% is that the less you do to make your presence known, the more stealth it is.

KingdomNerdia

2014-03-23 05:24:48 pm

OLV

I'm down with that. You do it first, though, and then I'll have a goal to meet that's beyond my capability.

So, got a new PB on S&S% today: 1:09:01!

Not gonna count it as an official WR, because the stream cut out in the second half when I had some controller issues.

Also, this happened:

ChazneySR

2014-03-24 05:54:22 am

That video should have been the Mark of the Ninja trailer.

KingdomNerdia

2014-03-24 08:16:13 am

OLV

Quote from Chazney:

That video should have been the Mark of the Ninja trailer.

Well, it's closer to actual gameplay than anything in their trailer.

ChazneySR

2014-03-24 03:33:05 pm

Did some budget% routing today. Very fun, though I'm not sure the run itself will be because a lot of the tricks are really hard. Also, I know there is at least 1 place where I can get away with not using an item, but it is so damn hard I may not do it in my first runs. I managed to pull it off once and I don't even know I can continue after doing it.

Either way, its a nice category, I'll just have to see how it plays out in an actual run.

KingdomNerdia

2014-03-25 12:46:28 pm

OLV

Just for you, Chaz

ChazneySR

2014-03-25 03:27:29 pm

ROFL, That made me laugh.

ChazneySR

2014-03-25 03:36:52 pm

Managed to pull off new walk of shame strats and got a 1:51.8
http://www.twitch.tv/chazneysr/c/3952202

KingdomNerdia

2014-03-26 02:01:53 pm

OLV

What did you do that was faster? 0.o

ChazneySR

Edit history:

ChazneySR: 2014-03-26 03:54:19 pm

2014-03-26 03:54:04 pm

Play it with sound. I reveal the strats about 30 seconds in.

Also, read the video description.

KingdomNerdia

2014-03-26 07:15:25 pm

OLV

New WR for S&S%: 1:07:46! Here's the run: http://www.twitch.tv/kingdomnerdia/c/3958854

Looking like I can can below 1:05:00 in the near future, then I'll attempt to record a good run and submit and stuff.

KingdomNerdia

2014-03-27 03:51:09 pm

OLV

Found a faster way to get past the first house of stalkers with the switch in budget% while messing around today.

ChazneySR

2014-03-28 02:41:34 am

I can't do that because the stalkers die and the run is pacifist. I can't be having those casualties because lawsuits are expensive. Though, I can just use sound to bring them up there instead of going all the way round which would be faster for sure (which is what I thought you were going to do).

ChazneySR

Edit history:

ChazneySR: 2014-03-28 06:36:13 am

ChazneySR: 2014-03-28 05:32:37 am

2014-03-28 05:31:05 am

Budget% is making progress:

Not so sure about sub-1 but if it's possible I think it might be a close call. I can definitely see there being 18 minutes worth of mistakes, but as I was adding up the huge mistakes I couldn't quite get to 18 minutes. I guess time will tell, but I think sub-1 may be possible.

Also planning on renaming it to FuckOff% due to the number of times I said it during that run.

P.S. Level 6 is the new level 10.

ChazneySR

2014-03-29 12:07:23 am

Hmm, I just realised that I have been unlocking doors without thinking about it and that would be an item usage. I probably need to re-route certain areas where I don't need to unlock a door.