<(^_^)>
Someone plz find skips to the ridiculous handholding at the start
"at the start"?
SDA Forum
Warning: Lots of words incoming
This assumption that skips will make this game a better run is simply not true. Sure, it'll cut out some fat, but... I don't see any meat to the run in the first place.
A game can be good for speedrunning without glitches or whatever. The problem with this game, skips or not, is that I don't see any real optimization or risk elements.
In a speedrun of this game, every fight boils down to die at the start to activate easy mode, then spam the same attacks over and over. The bros attacks/luiginary attacks don't really have a high skill cap to them like in sss and especially pit. This is partially true for BIS as well (jump helmet, the star special attack, and Bowser's special attacks can be hard to maximize damage, but other attacks are pretty easy for the most part), but BIS has fury in it which alleviates this issue a little. Fury is a status in BIS that increases Bowser's power, while lowering his defense. IIRC, it activates a random number of turns after taking a certain number of hits. The fury thing is why I think Bowser's Inside Story would be an interesting segmented run or tas, but not so much rta.
In SSS speedruns, you risk softlocking if you fuck up the skips. I don't see any real punishments for the skips in this game so far.
Now, I don't know much about dodging enemy encounters on the overworld in DT, but you will frequently see this messed up in SSS, PIT, and BIS runs. This is where the real optimization part comes into mario & luigi runs (except in PIT, where bros. items are very interesting to optimize). Nothing really stuck out to me when playing the game or watching bits of runs when it comes to avoiding encounters. I could be wrong on this, but it didn't seem that big of a thing in this game.
I'm going to reiterate this question: What is the meat of a DT run? Once you get good at the game, what is there to get better at? I don't see any of that in this game.
This assumption that skips will make this game a better run is simply not true. Sure, it'll cut out some fat, but... I don't see any meat to the run in the first place.
A game can be good for speedrunning without glitches or whatever. The problem with this game, skips or not, is that I don't see any real optimization or risk elements.
In a speedrun of this game, every fight boils down to die at the start to activate easy mode, then spam the same attacks over and over. The bros attacks/luiginary attacks don't really have a high skill cap to them like in sss and especially pit. This is partially true for BIS as well (jump helmet, the star special attack, and Bowser's special attacks can be hard to maximize damage, but other attacks are pretty easy for the most part), but BIS has fury in it which alleviates this issue a little. Fury is a status in BIS that increases Bowser's power, while lowering his defense. IIRC, it activates a random number of turns after taking a certain number of hits. The fury thing is why I think Bowser's Inside Story would be an interesting segmented run or tas, but not so much rta.
In SSS speedruns, you risk softlocking if you fuck up the skips. I don't see any real punishments for the skips in this game so far.
Now, I don't know much about dodging enemy encounters on the overworld in DT, but you will frequently see this messed up in SSS, PIT, and BIS runs. This is where the real optimization part comes into mario & luigi runs (except in PIT, where bros. items are very interesting to optimize). Nothing really stuck out to me when playing the game or watching bits of runs when it comes to avoiding encounters. I could be wrong on this, but it didn't seem that big of a thing in this game.
I'm going to reiterate this question: What is the meat of a DT run? Once you get good at the game, what is there to get better at? I don't see any of that in this game.
keeping the OoB tricks and the potential early somnom woods in mind, I think that the spin jump and OoB could be a way to get past the pre-ultibed blockade early on without too much trouble. However, we will need ball hop to do this, so it might only save 1-2 hours if possible.
PS: Where can I get a capture device, because I'm not sure where to get one, and how much it costs. I could be recording my runs soon after I get one.
PS: Where can I get a capture device, because I'm not sure where to get one, and how much it costs. I could be recording my runs soon after I get one.
I find many useless Glitches!
There are 3 known 3DS Capture Shops online
http://3dscapture.com (worldwide, located in America) [DS and 3DS]
http://3dsvideocapture.com (worldwide, located in Japan) [3DS, 3DS XL, 2DS and MANY others]
http://merki.net/?page_id=101 (Europe and Australia only, located in Germany) [DS, 3DS and (soon) 3DS XL]
http://3dscapture.com (worldwide, located in America) [DS and 3DS]
http://3dsvideocapture.com (worldwide, located in Japan) [3DS, 3DS XL, 2DS and MANY others]
http://merki.net/?page_id=101 (Europe and Australia only, located in Germany) [DS, 3DS and (soon) 3DS XL]
I find many useless Glitches!
ok, so I looked around with the storage in Driftwood Shore and I found out that you CAN clip through the Guards.
The problem we have now is that the game softlocks on the next screen because we don't have Luigi, so unless we get here with Luigi, OR we can go to the left in the main room, we cannot proceed.
Interesting aswell is that the Warp Pipe is already there, but you can't trigger it, because we need both bros to use a pipe.
We should test around with this.
As always I made a sexy Video of it because I can
The problem we have now is that the game softlocks on the next screen because we don't have Luigi, so unless we get here with Luigi, OR we can go to the left in the main room, we cannot proceed.
Interesting aswell is that the Warp Pipe is already there, but you can't trigger it, because we need both bros to use a pipe.
We should test around with this.
As always I made a sexy Video of it because I can
Oh
Ohhh, yes. You guys are awesome.
Early Driftwood is like the one thing I was hoping for the most. Everyplace else you learn some field action, but Dreamy Pajamaja just has the whirlwind which is completely unnecessary (and it's my least favorite place and Mammoshka is my second least favorite boss in this run. Next to Grobot. Did I mention you guys are awesome?)
I remember seeing a video of a pointless clip in Mushrise that lets you wander around with only Mario, and it showed that you can get Luigi to join up again by going out of bounds and tricking the game into thinking you've used a souped-up launchpad shroom. If you travel to the edge of the screen you'd be flung to, the game will put both bros in mid-flight entering the next screen. I get the feeling that will get rid of the storage, though, but it's worth a shot.
...It also brings to mind another possibility. You don't suppose warp pipes use the same kind of logic, do you? Because if they do, we might be able to find a screen where we can go out of bounds and trigger a warp pipe from below or something weird like that. And then... uh, I have no clue. Depending on how it works though, it might let us skip ahead to the point in the game where we'd normally access warp pipes, which is a few minutes before Driftwood.
Early Driftwood is like the one thing I was hoping for the most. Everyplace else you learn some field action, but Dreamy Pajamaja just has the whirlwind which is completely unnecessary (and it's my least favorite place and Mammoshka is my second least favorite boss in this run. Next to Grobot. Did I mention you guys are awesome?)
I remember seeing a video of a pointless clip in Mushrise that lets you wander around with only Mario, and it showed that you can get Luigi to join up again by going out of bounds and tricking the game into thinking you've used a souped-up launchpad shroom. If you travel to the edge of the screen you'd be flung to, the game will put both bros in mid-flight entering the next screen. I get the feeling that will get rid of the storage, though, but it's worth a shot.
...It also brings to mind another possibility. You don't suppose warp pipes use the same kind of logic, do you? Because if they do, we might be able to find a screen where we can go out of bounds and trigger a warp pipe from below or something weird like that. And then... uh, I have no clue. Depending on how it works though, it might let us skip ahead to the point in the game where we'd normally access warp pipes, which is a few minutes before Driftwood.
I find many useless Glitches!
ok the cannon in OoB does disable your Storage, so that's not an option to get luigi.
The only option we have at the moment to get Luigi and keep the storage is the first time Wakeport enter, which starts a cutscene where you get Luigi back.
The problem is it's a one time event...
The only option we have at the moment to get Luigi and keep the storage is the first time Wakeport enter, which starts a cutscene where you get Luigi back.
The problem is it's a one time event...
Good shit Anwonu, has it been tested what happens when you use the driftwood pipe early (assuming you can get Luigi with you with spin during storage...)
So the route would be to beat wakeport, go to paja and open the spin and drill, activate storage and get Luigi with you and go to Driftwood. If the pipe works correctly we could use it to escape after beating driftwood, pretty much skipping 50%(?) of the mountain. I'm not sure where you get Hiking Boots so that's gonna be a bit shitty. Maybe try storage to get to gold shop in driftwood early?
E: Just beat Driftwood early, but you get stuck because the guys in front of the entrance won't move. The gold pipe actually works (doesn't when you have storage on?), but all the warp spots don't exist...
So unless we find an OoB spot behind the guys we're stuck.
So the route would be to beat wakeport, go to paja and open the spin and drill, activate storage and get Luigi with you and go to Driftwood. If the pipe works correctly we could use it to escape after beating driftwood, pretty much skipping 50%(?) of the mountain. I'm not sure where you get Hiking Boots so that's gonna be a bit shitty. Maybe try storage to get to gold shop in driftwood early?
E: Just beat Driftwood early, but you get stuck because the guys in front of the entrance won't move. The gold pipe actually works (doesn't when you have storage on?), but all the warp spots don't exist...
So unless we find an OoB spot behind the guys we're stuck.
CHOKES
Just a little thing before the news, that I think wasn't posted here before: we can't skip Grobot fully because otherwise the Grobot X battle won't appear on the Battle Ring list.
Now for the better news: I found a way to give storage to Luigi. That requires spin though.
http://www.twitch.tv/anwonu/c/5466488
Basically, you want to get in spin formation, and go to the left. Then, use spin while holding left; this will make Luigi walk right very slowly. Before he gets to his horizontal position for the cutscene (it seems the game only checks that position), change screens with Mario. Then, get Luigi back.
So far, nothing new with that yet. Maybe a faster Driftwood, to skip the mole minigame and some "puzzles", but that needs to be timed. This was discussed before, but it wasn't viable because you had to go with Mario only, then go back just to get Luigi back. But now, it might be faster.
The route would be basically:
Now for the better news: I found a way to give storage to Luigi. That requires spin though.
http://www.twitch.tv/anwonu/c/5466488
Basically, you want to get in spin formation, and go to the left. Then, use spin while holding left; this will make Luigi walk right very slowly. Before he gets to his horizontal position for the cutscene (it seems the game only checks that position), change screens with Mario. Then, get Luigi back.
So far, nothing new with that yet. Maybe a faster Driftwood, to skip the mole minigame and some "puzzles", but that needs to be timed. This was discussed before, but it wasn't viable because you had to go with Mario only, then go back just to get Luigi back. But now, it might be faster.
The route would be basically:
- After getting out of the 1st dreampoint (forced), go to the west area and enter the golden pipe to go back to the park.
- Do the storage, then walk back to Driftwood.
- Get past the rocks next to the 1st dreampoint and break at least one of then.
- Go west, get past the rocks on the southwest part, and enter the dreampoint behind the mole minigame guy.
- Go east, then north, and complete the next dreampoint.
- Go back to the area past the rocks you broke before and complete the last dreampoint.
I find many useless Glitches!
Finally, I reached Neo Bowser Castle once again and I looked a bit around.
I just had to enter it and 2 minutes in I found something.
Basicly I found some skips that save around 40-50 minutes.
The first clip is pretty weird because Luigi doesn't want to clip in the wall sometimes.
In the fire room: By spinning into the fire the game sets the checkpoint behind the fire, and by falling into the fire, the game teleports you to the checkpoint (in this case behind the flamethrower) and you simply have to do that for all 3.
The reason I use the drill to get back is to not hit these checkpoints on the way to the lava.
I tested it and you can get to the end without missing any triggers
Sorry for the quality. My PC is dead and my Laptop is to bad to start the capture software.
I just had to enter it and 2 minutes in I found something.
Basicly I found some skips that save around 40-50 minutes.
The first clip is pretty weird because Luigi doesn't want to clip in the wall sometimes.
In the fire room: By spinning into the fire the game sets the checkpoint behind the fire, and by falling into the fire, the game teleports you to the checkpoint (in this case behind the flamethrower) and you simply have to do that for all 3.
The reason I use the drill to get back is to not hit these checkpoints on the way to the lava.
I tested it and you can get to the end without missing any triggers
Sorry for the quality. My PC is dead and my Laptop is to bad to start the capture software.
CHOKES
Lol, very nice. Now it makes me want to try a run even more =p
It looks like if Luigi is at the same spot as Mario when clipping, it's easier for him to clip too. To do that easily, get on spin/drill formation, turn your back to the wall then cancel.
Edit: if you go backwards after the skip, there'll be a cutscene after you use an elevator down. After it, Mario will go up alone, and the game will softlock =p
It looks like if Luigi is at the same spot as Mario when clipping, it's easier for him to clip too. To do that easily, get on spin/drill formation, turn your back to the wall then cancel.
Edit: if you go backwards after the skip, there'll be a cutscene after you use an elevator down. After it, Mario will go up alone, and the game will softlock =p
http://i.imgur.com/ssx1NZG.jpg
Really annoying, because I'd say you could save a good 10 minutes (it was a bad "segmented" run), which still wouldn't be enough for sub 9, but at least sub 10 is easily possible thanks to the new skips.
Some random timings I did
Saving the Hammer Pi''illo is around 1:34 and skipping him with an insanely fast OoB is around 37 secs, so a minute is saved there.
Watching Boss Brickle getting stuck in the fountain takes around 1:05 min and around the same if you go OoB, not going OoB saves around 10 secs.
Getting hit by Giant Pajas rock in the beginning of the fight makes Mario come to you quicker after the spin, which ends up saving a good 50 secs.
Not doing Storage for Driftwood takes ~4:25 min
Using it takes around 3:57, so you save around 25 secs.
Antasma and Dreamy Bowser are annoying as fuck due to Kamek skips, but can't really do anything about that -_-
Really annoying, because I'd say you could save a good 10 minutes (it was a bad "segmented" run), which still wouldn't be enough for sub 9, but at least sub 10 is easily possible thanks to the new skips.
Some random timings I did
Saving the Hammer Pi''illo is around 1:34 and skipping him with an insanely fast OoB is around 37 secs, so a minute is saved there.
Watching Boss Brickle getting stuck in the fountain takes around 1:05 min and around the same if you go OoB, not going OoB saves around 10 secs.
Getting hit by Giant Pajas rock in the beginning of the fight makes Mario come to you quicker after the spin, which ends up saving a good 50 secs.
Not doing Storage for Driftwood takes ~4:25 min
Using it takes around 3:57, so you save around 25 secs.
Antasma and Dreamy Bowser are annoying as fuck due to Kamek skips, but can't really do anything about that -_-