Mario and Luigi: Dream Team (Bros.)

2013-08-13 03:46:05 pm

Gets the cake.

Got this game, though I still haven't beaten it. I'm sorta keeping an eye out for possible skips as I go along, and the only things I've seen so far are:

The moustache things that dreamy luigi can turn into are totally broken. They can give mario a MASSIVE amount of speed, and I'm sure they can break some puzzles later if you are precise enough.
After you get the hammers, if you go left to the lookout point, you can save a tiny amount of time by jumping around a boulder that's facing the wrong way to skip breaking like 5 boulders on the next screen.

Yeah so nothing major. I just wanted to publicly document the lookout point jump before I forgot it, in case it turns out that it matters.

Feel free to post spoilers, this isn't the kind of game where I'm super concerned about the story. Also feel free to use spoiler tags just in case everyone isn't like me =P

Thread title:

Anwonu

2013-08-13 03:56:59 pm

CHOKES

Dhrgr runs this game (I don't know his nick here, or if he has an account), and his current record is a bit over 13h. I believe he abuses the easy mode against bosses. But I believe no skips or useful glitches.

I haven't watched it because I, too, need to finish the game. I don't like being spoilered though, so yeah =p

TheMG2

2013-08-13 05:00:23 pm

Quote from z1mb0bw4y:

Got this game, though I still haven't beaten it. I'm sorta keeping an eye out for possible skips as I go along, and the only things I've seen so far are:

The moustache things that dreamy luigi can turn into are totally broken. They can give mario a MASSIVE amount of speed, and I'm sure they can break some puzzles later if you are precise enough.
After you get the hammers, if you go left to the lookout point, you can save a tiny amount of time by jumping around a boulder that's facing the wrong way to skip breaking like 5 boulders on the next screen.

Yeah so nothing major. I just wanted to publicly document the lookout point jump before I forgot it, in case it turns out that it matters.

Feel free to post spoilers, this isn't the kind of game where I'm super concerned about the story. Also feel free to use spoiler tags just in case everyone isn't like me =P

Now I haven't beaten the game either but...

The problem with the moustache things is that they can give mario a huge amount of horizontal speed. When it comes to vertical speed, you tend to be limited because can't be pulled through the ground (as far as I know).

[quote="z1mb0bw4y"]Got this game, though I still haven't beaten it. I'm sorta keeping an eye out for possible skips as I go along, and the only things I've seen so far are:

The moustache things that dreamy luigi can turn into are totally broken. They can give mario a MASSIVE amount of speed, and I'm sure they can break some puzzles later if you are precise enough.
After you get the hammers, if you go left to the lookout point, you can save a tiny amount of time by jumping around a boulder that's facing the wrong way to skip breaking like 5 boulders on the next screen.

Yeah so nothing major. I just wanted to publicly document the lookout point jump before I forgot it, in case it turns out that it matters.

Feel free to post spoilers, this isn't the kind of game where I'm super concerned about the story. Also feel free to use spoiler tags just in case everyone isn't like me =P[/quote]
Now I haven't beaten the game either but...

The problem with the moustache things is that they can give mario a huge amount of horizontal speed. When it comes to vertical speed, you tend to be limited because can't be pulled through the ground (as far as I know).

z1mb0bw4y

2013-08-13 10:12:37 pm

Gets the cake.

Haven't watched the whole 13 hr run yet, but the easy mode stuff looks like it makes this game horrifically boring. I'm like 2 hrs of skimming through this vod and it seems like you just skip everything, stay at low HP, and activate easymode on the boss fights to GG win. Definitely not the kind of run I was hoping for.

I think that'll probably be considered an extra category, but even if it isn't I'm sure some sequence breaks or glitches will be found that will make this interesting. I'll put a few more hours in before I make that claim, though!

Anwonu

Edit history:

Anwonu: 2013-08-14 09:43:05 am

2013-08-14 09:40:13 am

CHOKES

I guess you could do a "no easy" or hard mode run (I believe hard mode doesn't have the easy option? I hope so =p).

But for any%, I guess that's the way to go, unfortunately. It doesn't take too much time to be killed (I'm currently being 1/2HKO by most bosses because I skip most of the battles, and I'm around half of the game), and I guess the battle does get a lot faster with easy mode.

Edit: ah, and here's a gif from the game =p

DhrGR

Edit history:

DhrGR: 2013-08-31 04:36:09 pm

2013-08-30 07:07:56 pm

Quote from z1mb0bw4y:

Haven't watched the whole 13 hr run yet, but the easy mode stuff looks like it makes this game horrifically boring. I'm like 2 hrs of skimming through this vod and it seems like you just skip everything, stay at low HP, and activate easymode on the boss fights to GG win. Definitely not the kind of run I was hoping for.

I think that'll probably be considered an extra category, but even if it isn't I'm sure some sequence breaks or glitches will be found that will make this interesting. I'll put a few more hours in before I make that claim, though!

Hi btw, i don't normally use SDA that much so... ^_^
I thought i'd let my opinion in at this, any% is normally without restriction, it seems like the best way to do this is just abuse easy mode, then of-course normal mode is something different, since if you go into easy mode you will not unlock hard mode, last kind of speedrun would be hard mode, and those are the things i would consider the most reasonable.
Timing starts at file select, stops after credits (in-game time can be used if you never save, saving is not included in game time, for all other stuff it is very precise)

Honestly, calling my run a speedrun is not a good way to put it, i can easy save over 2 hours by adjusting the route for cloud (the white guy in dreamy wake-port) and not taking a break in the middle of a run since it is so long and you get no breaks at all by cut-scenes like other RPG's >_>
The game is ridiculously long and i already found a few very useless glitches, like not being able to jump with Luigi for some reason if you jump on a platform in a certain way, the game is VERY protective in its order since you need to trigger everything, there is a fight with the shy guys with getting the piece from the beach back, and it asks you if you like to do a minigame to get information on where they are, go there before completing the minigame and they will not be there.

Anyway, it was more of a "fun run" rather then a serious speed run (nobody had any information about the game since it was only released in EU, so i could not route it very well), capture cards would not be needed if you use splits + game time as proof it was done RTA (if that is what you want to do) and for all the other things you could do a segmented runs pretty easy by being able to save anywhere and it not being included in the in-game time (loading menu's takes forever tho, and i am not sure if those are counted)

Aside from what you said, there is actually some things you prob did not notice and i will note here: Most M & L RPG's go full power, i actually considered getting some speed to be able to run away from battles if you get into one, since attacking animations take a very long time, the guard shell gives you 3 hits on you without damage (DX version gives 6) and that can be used to shorten the animations of attacks, it also resets itself if you die, so if you revive you will regain the 0 damage hits. aside from that skipping most attack skills seems to be the best option, i think the best skills to get are: 3D Red Shell (forced), 3D Green Shell (forced), Bye-Bye Cannon (crit against final boss and pretty high damage / speed), Slingshot (forced + crit against a lot of bosses), Luigi Ball (forced), Luigi Stack (to be able to kill cloud), Luigi Hammer (really fast attack and a lot of damage). Spinners for stats are really broken and you should never miss them (try and press A/B to start the spinner, and time hitting the max number with L as soon as you see it, and you will see how broken it is)

A lengthy post but i think that has all information i have on this, good luck and i hope some stuff will get found for this game, no game can be 100% glitch free~

Edit: Someone informed me that going into easy mode will still allow you to unlock hard mode, this does not change the fact that you could just restrict yourself from using easy mode to make a more interesting speedrun rather then hard mode / abusing easy mode, i think it is probably a lot more fun, but just keep in mind that i don't really see anyone running normal / hard mode anytime soon, considering how long the game is.... (easy mode abuse can make it to 11 hours easy, maybe even around 10 if you are dedicated enough, i don't even wanna think how long normal / hard take, but longer then that for sure )

[quote="z1mb0bw4y"]Haven't watched the whole 13 hr run yet, but the easy mode stuff looks like it makes this game horrifically boring. I'm like 2 hrs of skimming through this vod and it seems like you just skip everything, stay at low HP, and activate easymode on the boss fights to GG win. Definitely not the kind of run I was hoping for.

I think that'll probably be considered an extra category, but even if it isn't I'm sure some sequence breaks or glitches will be found that will make this interesting. I'll put a few more hours in before I make that claim, though![/quote]

Hi btw, i don't normally use SDA that much so... ^_^
I thought i'd let my opinion in at this, any% is normally without restriction, it seems like the best way to do this is just abuse easy mode, then of-course normal mode is something different, since if you go into easy mode you will not unlock hard mode, last kind of speedrun would be hard mode, and those are the things i would consider the most reasonable. 
Timing starts at file select, stops after credits (in-game time can be used if you never save, saving is not included in game time, for all other stuff it is very precise)

Honestly, calling my run a speedrun is not a good way to put it, i can easy save over 2 hours by adjusting the route for cloud (the white guy in dreamy wake-port) and not taking a break in the middle of a run since it is so long and you get no breaks at all by cut-scenes like other RPG's >_>
The game is ridiculously long and i already found a few very useless glitches, like not being able to jump with Luigi for some reason if you jump on a platform in a certain way, the game is VERY protective in its order since you need to trigger everything, there is a fight with the shy guys with getting the piece from the beach back, and it asks you if you like to do a minigame to get information on where they are, go there before completing the minigame and they will not be there.

Anyway, it was more of a "fun run" rather then a serious speed run (nobody had any information about the game since it was only released in EU, so i could not route it very well), capture cards would not be needed if you use splits  + game time as proof it was done RTA (if that is what you want to do) and for all the other things you could do a segmented runs pretty easy by being able to save anywhere and it not being included in the in-game time (loading menu's takes forever tho, and i am not sure if those are counted)

Aside from what you said, there is actually some things you prob did not notice and i will note here: Most M & L RPG's go full power, i actually considered getting some speed to be able to run away from battles if you get into one, since attacking animations take a very long time, the guard shell gives you 3 hits on you without damage (DX version gives 6) and that can be used to shorten the animations of attacks, it also resets itself if you die, so if you revive you will regain the 0 damage hits. aside from that skipping most attack skills seems to be the best option, i think the best skills to get are: 3D Red Shell (forced), 3D Green Shell (forced), Bye-Bye Cannon (crit against final boss and pretty high damage / speed), Slingshot (forced + crit against a lot of bosses), Luigi Ball (forced), Luigi Stack (to be able to kill cloud), Luigi Hammer (really fast attack and a lot of damage). Spinners for stats are really broken and you should never miss them (try and press A/B to start the spinner, and time hitting the max number with L as soon as you see it, and you will see how broken it is)

A lengthy post but i think that has all information i have on this, good luck and i hope some stuff will get found for this game, no game can be 100% glitch free~

Edit: Someone informed me that going into easy mode will still allow you to unlock hard mode, this does not change the fact that you could just restrict yourself from using easy mode to make a more interesting speedrun rather then hard mode / abusing easy mode, i think it is probably a lot more fun, but just keep in mind that i don't really see anyone running normal / hard mode anytime soon, considering how long the game is.... (easy mode abuse can make it to 11 hours easy, maybe even around 10 if you are dedicated enough, i don't even wanna think how long normal / hard take, but longer then that for sure )

ais523

2013-09-01 09:50:05 am

Deathless is an accepted category for a lot of games. Wouldn't that rule out easy mode abuse pretty effectively?

Anwonu

2013-09-01 07:41:12 pm

CHOKES

I guess. Even though deaths are usually abused for save warp, I think this case would be part of that as well.
Anyway, I'm planning on timing the difference between normal and easy mode later. Still not sure if I'll run this though =p

2 little tricks:
-in one of the dreams in last dungeon, there's a place where you need to push a block over a pit of lava. You can skip it by timing your jump well.
-also in the last dungeon: you can become invincible against the big bob-ombs by making Luigi use the hammer on Mario. I remember having 2 places with annoying bob-ombs, so this might be useful.

z1mb0bw4y

Edit history:

z1mb0bw4y: 2013-09-05 10:48:32 am

2013-09-02 01:39:23 am

Gets the cake.

I found a small OoB trick on the pajama mountain place (I haven't been paying attention to the story, can you tell? =P)

After the cliff jump, and activating the vent, you can go up to the right to progress normally. Once on the ledge (the one you needed to activate the vent to get to), you can clip into the fence on the left and fall down into the wall. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be useful, but it also means the potential to skip other areas via fence clipping exists. I'll try to post a video when I get home from work.

edit: I think it's possible to skip most of the mountain. Once you get the spin jump (the vertical one, not the dash one) you can ALMOST BARELY BUT NOT QUITE make the spin jump around a fence to the warp pipe that goes up to the top. If all the triggers are there, you could skip around that fence, finish the mountain, then go back down to the point where you get the spin dash maybe? I've not been able to make the jump yet, but I'll keep trying.

HiddenPower13

2013-09-07 01:44:12 pm

A small thing to save time I noticed is that in giant battles, you can make the text scroll fast by pressing the A button. That might sound weird since that is how you advance text normally, but as you know, you primarily use the stylus during giant battles. So it really surprised me that you can only make the text scroll by pressing A. The optimal way to do giant battles then would be to hold your 3DS in a position that makes you able to mash A and tip with the stylus at the same time.

It's no biggie, but it's probably going to save a couple of seconds.

TheMG2

2013-09-07 02:07:15 pm

A thing about Luigi Hammer is that if you end up closer to the edge closer to the enemies when the hammers are formed, Mario doesn't have to walk as far to hit the enemies.

Also if the items you get from Eldream (or whatever the old pillo's name is) is always the same, you can get a birthday hammer relatively early, I think like seven pillos. And through calendar manipulation, every day is your birthday. I know a few games have protections against this kind of thing (turnips in animal crossing, migration in pokemon), but if there is protection, you could probably get around it by doing it in advance.

Also, it needs to be determined if there is a cap on Hiking Boots. If not, before every run, you'd have to shake your 3DS for like an hour.

Pedalpowerluigi

2013-09-15 12:35:13 pm

I thought this was an interesting game for a segmented run, but I have no route Sad

I was searching for stuff and found this.
Saves a lot of time in Dozing Sands, really huge.

Would be cool if some people would try this on the US and JP versions.

TheMG2

2013-09-15 12:51:10 pm

You should have probably posted in the other topic https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/mario_and_luigi_dream_team_bros..html. But nice find!

PPL

2013-09-15 12:54:23 pm

Aw man that topic was hiding somewhere :/

Feel free to delete this topic

TheMG2

sinister1

Edit history:

sinister1: 2013-09-15 10:55:34 pm

2013-09-15 12:54:54 pm

~~A mod can merge it.~~
Done.

PPL

2013-09-15 12:55:39 pm

Ok, thanks Smiley

Anwonu

2013-09-15 01:33:20 pm

CHOKES

Indeed, nice find!
I wonder if this is possible in other areas as well? =p

DhrGR

Edit history:

DhrGR: 2013-09-15 01:49:18 pm

2013-09-15 01:47:11 pm

Shamefully this is before cloud, not sure if there would be any other place where this is possible, but a place i would love to have such a thing would be mount pajamaja. (Any area that had enemy's and is accisble using the last overworld bros. move needs testing)
Also i'm gonna have to find a load of other coins now to replace the coins gained from dozing sands, since they really helped out, but no matter what, this skips a huge auto-scroller portion so it is certainly very cool
I'm very surprised this works however with how dumb the trigger system is in this game, maybe it is not as dumb as i thought...

TheMG2

2013-09-15 02:02:36 pm

The trigger system isn't that dumb from a programming.

They simply made the trigger for the flyguys the minigame rather than accommodating for not doing the minigame. The boss of the desert is in the initial roomstate. Why wouldn't it work? It is the FIRST roomstate. Why would there be a roomstate without the boss if you didn't do make the stairs? They didn't expect you to not make the stairs, so why wouldn't it work?

The difference is that this is gaining access to a new area, as opposed to changing states of old areas. If you are relying on a change in state in an old area, it probably won't work. If you are gaining access to a new area, then it would work.

I wonder if this could work with the ball jump thing (forgot the name) and a flying enemy to go REALLY high.

Anwonu

2013-09-15 07:14:34 pm

CHOKES

Here are my small contributions:

Smoldergeist:

It seems you do 2 damage per jump (so, 4 with an Excellent jump) no matter how much pow you have (maybe if you have high enough you do more, but that's not an option..).
Apparently, they don't light their flames either if you jumped on them the previous turn, or if their HP is low.
They end their attack if one of the bros is hit
Therefore, I believe this is the best strategy (in parenthesis, their damage taken):

Jump on one of the orbs with Mario (4/0/0/0)
Jump on a different orb with Luigi (4/4/0/0)
Get hit by the ones with flames, and counter the unlit ones (6/6/0/0)
Again, jump on one of the unlit orbs with Mario, and the other with Luigi (10/10/0/0)
Avoid the lit orbs (so they lose their flames) and counter the unlit ones, defeating them (x/x/0/0)
Now, just alternate the jumps again and counter in the next 2 turns, similar to the first 2.

First Pi'illo to save: the image shows one of the possible spots to break all of the nightmare chunks in 1 jump.

Here are my small contributions:

Smoldergeist:
[ul]
[li]It seems you do 2 damage per jump (so, 4 with an Excellent jump) no matter how much pow you have (maybe if you have high enough you do more, but that's not an option..).[/li]
[li]Apparently, they don't light their flames either if you jumped on them the previous turn, or if their HP is low.[/li]
[li]They end their attack if one of the bros is hit[/li]
[li]Therefore, I believe this is the best strategy (in parenthesis, their damage taken):[/li]
[spoiler]
[ul]
[li]Jump on one of the orbs with Mario (4/0/0/0)[/li]
[li]Jump on a different orb with Luigi (4/4/0/0)[/li]
[li]Get hit by the ones with flames, and counter the unlit ones (6/6/0/0)[/li]
[li]Again, jump on one of the unlit orbs with Mario, and the other with Luigi (10/10/0/0)[/li]
[li]Avoid the lit orbs (so they lose their flames) and counter the unlit ones, defeating them (x/x/0/0)[/li]
[li]Now, just alternate the jumps again and counter in the next 2 turns, similar to the first 2.[/li]
[/ul]
[/spoiler]
[/ul]

First Pi'illo to save: the image shows one of the possible spots to break all of the nightmare chunks in 1 jump.

Attachment:

00000.png

PPL

2013-09-15 11:32:26 pm

I knew some of that stuff about Smouldergeist but I suck at explaining things, so I'm happy you did it Smiley

(you can also refight them in the badge tutorial menu) I also found a strat for the Antasma dark Mario fight. I'm not sure if everyone knows how to identify it. Its the last one that jumps. Instead of jumping on top of it, jump on top of another one next to it. This makes all Luiginoids hit the real one instead of them bouncing somewhere else.

Pedalpowerluigi

2013-09-16 06:04:51 am

I tested Hiking boots a bit.

They cap at 150 POW (technically 148 because the Run-Down Boots have a POW of 2)
And to get that you need ~10000 steps = ~66 steps per POW.

Someone should test more, I suck at this stuff :p

Anwonu

2013-09-16 10:00:16 am

CHOKES

Nice. I've read about that on GFaqs, but I didn't test it to check. Good to have a confirmation.
Some said on a topic there that it caps at 155, though. Maybe they thought that because other items caps at 155?

Pedalpowerluigi

2013-09-16 10:31:30 am

Some guys friend said it was 155. I dont know about that, but im sure that extra 5 POW is useless even it it happens to exist.

Is the route hidden somewhere or in DhrGRs head?

Anwonu

2013-09-16 11:09:38 am

CHOKES

I think ewaller has a more detailed route, but I don't know if he posted somewhere.
You can find them sometimes on IRC: #dreamteam in SRL server.