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I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.
My main damage deal is Charged bolt, with some lightning later on. Blaze... i will give it a shot, but I am skeptical. Levels 1-6 are not that tough with CB, I managed to get to outer cloister at level 8 in just about 18 minutes (i recorded this one!). It's a little behidn marsh, but I expected as such. I'm trying to run to andy now while gaining the other 3 levels, but I keep forgetting the way -_-

Gems I have been underestimating I agree. But +life/mana is still not as important as FCR and hit recovery. If i can get 20 on each of those... it makes things so much easier.

Static field is dumb to put more points into, only time it would really seem to make a difference is for the ancients who are always running about.
Edit history:
Coriolanus: 2005-07-13 10:40:28 pm
Level 8 at the outer courtyard puts you two levels ahead of marsh: 2 * 3:31 = 7 minutes, 18 - 7 is 11, which is maybe a minute or two behind at this point. If you can maintain that 2 level advantage you should be 18 before killing duriel. Then its just a teleport/mana guzzling sprint to the end.

Marsh starts act 2 with 11.8 levels with ~ 33 minutes of play time.

If you had 13.8 levels with ~ 40 minutes of play time you would be tied.

i'm converting 1 level of exp into 3:31 btw.

also, i have an assumption that it is better, and easier to get exp early. that could be dead wrong though. what is your belief?
I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.
Killed andy... this section took a 17 minutes. I'm still lagging behind, but I think I can make it up. 
Edit history:
Coriolanus: 2005-07-13 10:45:41 pm
did she fold to static field?

out of curiosity, what gem did she drop?
I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.

And because she has so many minions that ressurect each other, it's really hard to do a concentrated static field, especially since I don't have a merc to eat some hits. Right before I fought her, I dropped all my gold in town, then just ran in, tp, static till I die.

But don't lose faith in static, on my trial run, I beat duriel in less than 20 seconds at level 16. It will be good.
that diamond could give a nice 11% resist all, toss in two more chipped diamonds and you have 23%, not bad for normal.
I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.
I redid andy, 14m on this section this time. Total time for finishing act 1 is 32 minutes, ending at level 10. Here's where the strategy gets me.

I think best thing to do is a sewer run right away, the skill at the end is a nice bonus to the large amount of xp that I will need to get anyways. I need to go from 10-18 in act 2 - i will definetly need to go out of the way to level. I will need to do some trials to see if its best to do that early or later.
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There are no triple socket bone shields. Bone shields can only have 2 sockets.

Also screw diamonds. The only resistances you need are fire and lightning, so get topazes and rubies. The other two can be addressed with potions.

About leveling: Best exp can be gotten at champs or bosses of monsters that are 2-3 levels higher than you. Act2 starts out with lv14 guys, so it's best to finish act1 with lv11.
Edit history:
Coriolanus: 2005-07-14 03:36:59 am
Gorash: Your right about the bone shield, what was I thinking Huh?

It appears that the minimum strength for a triply socketed shield is 34 for the large shield. Unfortuantely, the large shield also counts as "medium" for stamina drain which could be detrimental. Looks like a 2 socket buckler or small shield will be the maximum practical shield for a sorc run.

As for the gems, such a shield with a normal ruby and a normal topaz would give 22% resistance to both. A shield with two normal diamonds should give 22% to all resistances. The problem is the likelyhood of aquiring such gems. Andariel can give one, and then you're hurting till possibly act 4 (?) You could swap shields when facing especially fire or especially lightning foes, if you were OK with changing the weapon as well.

BTW, are you also doing a speed run with the assassin?

Siyko: I like the idea of the extra skill. Good one. If you can tag izual you can get the trifecta. 32  minutes and level 10, damn you are on fire now 8) Maybe Gorash can give you some good sweetspots to level from in Act 2, I myself am partial to the Death Beetles (but are they resistant to lightning?). Also the fly swarms are (seemingly) weak against magic.

If level 11-12 is a good target to end act 1 on, so you can be 2-3 from the level 14 mobs in act 2, then dwelling in act 1 a little longer may not hurt. There is always the dark tower, bloodraven, and tristram to consider. But you are doing so good that you will easily shave 10 minutes off the Marshmallow run. Its up to you and your feelings on the matter: I wish I had a gamable computer :bawl:

PS what do you use to record with?
Edit history:
Gorash: 2005-07-14 11:18:30 am
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Looks like a 2 socket buckler or small shield will be the maximum practical shield for a sorc run.

Bucklers can only have one socket Roll Eyes

BTW, are you also doing a speed run with the assassin?

I have an unfinished one here where I'm about 2 minutes ahead of marsh in act2 and have found Hsarus Boots. But I am more interested in the sorc. I talked it through to great length with a friend of mine, and we scheduled a test session for end of july (when semester is over), but if you want to attempt it, no harm done in giving you our digested ideas.

Maybe Gorash can give you some good sweetspots to level from in Act 2, I myself am partial to the Death Beetles (but are they resistant to lightning?). Also the fly swarms are (seemingly) weak against magic.

I thought about Izual and tried around, but with my build (fire based) killing anything in act4 is a pure waste of time.

Death Beetles are hard to kill in masses but not resistant at all. However the damage you take is tremendous. Swarms are better, and Cats in general and Vultures are also nice. I also found that the Skeleton masses in Halls of the Dead are interesting, they drop dead on eye contact (almost), and the quantity makes them interesting. Best of all by far are zombies in Lost City... they take a while to take out, but ooooohhhh the exp. I you kill a boss group of them that's an instant half a level.

If you're lightning based you'll have fun in the arcane sanctuary...

PS what do you use to record with?

Fraps Smiley
I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.
I'm using Fraps as well.

The beetles are great, but in every tomb, the skeletons just die so fast. Champion groups are indeed delicious, minions too. A lot of times, though, I will kill a pack of minions, and the superunique will be something really hard to kill and I'll just skip it.

Izual would be awesome to hit up, 2 free skill points there would be nice.

One thing I still can't decide is whether to keep using charged bolt through act 4 and 5, or whether switching to lightning or even chain lightning would make things easier when I'm facing baal's minions and such, who are a few levels above me.

Going back to act 1 is a possibility, but I would probably only do something like the inner cloister -> cathedral, that place always has like 3 superuniques and a bunch of champions.

I'm interested in how this fire sorc would work out though, unless you use inferno, you wouldn't have any AOE until level 12.

Quick question, does anyone remember if any of baal's minions are lit immune?
Stupor is as Stupor Does
IIRC, on normal difficulty none of baal's minions are Immune to lightning. Bartuc the Bloody (3rd group unique)  is Lightning Enchanted, which also gives him a very high resistance to lightning, but he will take damage.  The first groups boss is fire immune and the second group's boss is poison immune.

This reminds me, you may want to get a weapon or charm that causes poison damage for some of the boss battles. Poison damage will not kill things fast, but will prevent enemies from regenerating health. This could greatly reduce the amount of time it takes to kill them.  Remember, however, that the important modifier is poison LENGTH not damage. You want the effect to last as long as possible.  If you get really lucky, the OPEN WOUNDS modifier on weapons will also cause the same effect, but will not be negated by poison immunes.  This is a trick I learned in Hell difficulty (where it becomes almost necessary with how fast monsters regain health).  Since you will be a Sorceress, I would recommend getting some basic javelins or throwing knives as a weapon switch to cause the damage so you do not have run into melee range and can still wear a shield.

Just some thoughts,
I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.
Good idea stupor. Right now my weaponswitch is for my cold armor, so i'd have to manaully switch it out, but for particularly tricky battles it could help a lot. I'm not sure who is going to cause me the most grief though, in my trial, duriel and meph were boatloads easier than andy, and she only took like 3 minutes on the recorded run.

I forgot about bartuc, he is gonna be a pain. Trying to static field vs lightning enhanced is not fun. Maybe I should put more points into static...

I think for the skill points, I think this is the way I'm gonna go, since I have the armor on weaponswitch:

lvl 2-8: charged bolt
lvl 9: static field
lvl 10-11: charged bolt
(sewers: charged bolt)
lvl 12: lightning
lvl 13-15: charged bolt
lvl 16: telekenesis
lvl 17: nothing
lvl 18: teleport + chain lit
lvl 19-20: Huh?
izzy: (???)

so 4 unaccounted for skill points. Act 4 and 5 are the only ones that will be affected by this, and the only fights are chaos sanct, izzy, diablo, ancients, minions, baal. I guess I'll do a trial run with each of them, because looking at the numbers doesn't really help.
Stupor is as Stupor Does
If I might make another suggestion, I would avoid getting chain lightning, as this skill at level 1 will be of limited benefit.  Instead I would invest in lightning.  Lightning will boost the damage of charged bolt and lightning simultaneously, giving you increased damage.  I would also recommend avoiding putting a second point into static field, as this only increases the range slightly. I think you would be better served by another point into CB or Lightning to increase their damage.

Other than that, I thnk you have a pretty good build going on.

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.
Does anyone have a link to a handy chart of monster levels? I want to work out some of my leveling questions while I'm at work and can't play.

And I'm still frustrated with act 1: using maphack on a trial run, I have gotten 27 minutes instead of 32, and I ended at level 11 instead of 10. But on this (slower) run, I have a lot more money (about 10k iirc), and better gear (a +2 cb on main, and +cold armor on switch).

Chain lightning vs lightning; I don't have any experience with playing a lightning spec sorc before this, so maybe someone else could answer this: if chain lightning says 'hits 5 times', that means it hits 5 targets... does it hit anything other than those 5? Like, if I target a guy far away, and the bolt goes through a mob of guys, but doesn't ping off any of them, will they get hurt? If not, lightning seems definetly teh way to go (better syn, more dmg, less mana, and hits more guys). Lightning is a godsend in the maggot lair, and for taking out those damn Returned through a mob of skeletons, so if chain lit only hits its targets, then that's an easy decision.

I encourage anyone to try act 1 with the sorc. At first I had the same scepticism I saw marshmallow express in his D2LOD topic, that it doesn't gain any real 'killing' power until higher level, but charged bolt comes through in surprising damage (mowing down act 3 champions when the skill says '8-9 damage' brings a smile).

Act 1 is 32 minutes, act 2 I think will take almost 30 as well. Act 3 I have done in 15 minutes, but thats without hitting 20, which I want to be before getting into a4. Act 4 will either take a while to clear chaos sanct, or almost no time, depending on how lightning comes through. I'd say from 10-20 minutes is a safe bet. Act 5, bleh, Marsh ran to the ancients in 7 minutes, so I think sorc can do it in about 5. Ancients fight should be much faster though, as well as baal himself.

But I really shouldn't set a time limit for each act. I'll just try to get a run that beats marsh's, and post it, and hope for people to improve on it as I work to do the same.
Edit history:
Gorash: 2005-07-14 04:49:44 pm
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If you want a spell in the lightning tree, lightning is your friend. For CB you have to be too close to feel comfortable. And CL is great, but you'll get it way too late, and then it's weak vs single enemies which is what you'll be fighting most of the time from there on.

The mechanics are: Once the CL hits an enemy, the counter for hops is decreased by one, and the Lightning hops to another enemy in the vicinity of the first one. Yes, it can bounce between two enemies. However if no enemy is around the CL stops, making it utterly useless vs. act bosses.

About poison dam: this only works if you deal it with a weapon and for that you have to hit the monsters. With lv21 and the dexterity of a sorc... lets just say trash that idea quickly. Just dealing dam works faster, and regeneration in normal is very low on 1player.

About Bartuc: My word, the whole idea of a sorc is that she can teleport! You fight the first 2 waves, then drop the other three in corners and port back into the throne room.

My idea about skills:
1 static, everything else up until 11 into CB.
Rest into lightning.
Buy a +1 teleport staff in act3.

The handy chart of monster levels is on the official site:
Edit history:
Siyko: 2005-07-14 05:02:37 pm
I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.
Ahh, I totally forgot about bringing them out! I just hope bartuc won't be too reluctant to move, with all his hydra creation and ressing his friends (i'll have to not kill any early on I guess).

Chain lightning, I didn't phrase it right, what I'm wondering is if there is a mob of skeletons with a boss in the corner, and I cast chain lightning on the boss, it hits him, and bounces off 4 guys next to him, will the lightning damage the same line of skeletons that the lightning visibly flies over? A normal lightnign would hit everything in its path, does chain lightning do the same, or is it only the targets?

Buying the teleport staff would be nice, I guess I coudl have an entire segment of going to the shoppe and grabbing the staff.

And for CB against bosses, i'm gonna need to be close to static field anyways, thats why hopefully the merc will take a few hits. Running away and lightning would probably be an easier way to avoid death against diablo and baal though, but duriel can't even kill my merc before I kill him, and meph's far too predictable to take any real damage (all those years of meph runs pay off!). Diablo and baal would probably go down to lightning a lot easier than CB (after static of course). But D's always running around and his stupid firehose is annoying, and baal is always teleporting around and using his stupid cold triangle BS.

Thanks for the advice
Edit history:
StuporMan: 2005-07-14 05:05:04 pm
Stupor is as Stupor Does
IIRC, CL bounces on the first enemy contacted. This means if you will not hit the unique in the back, you will hit a peon in the front. Also, CL will continue in the direction it last traveled on its last strike.  Any enemies in that direction will take damage.  This direction, however, is nearly impossible to predict reliably with more than 3 monsters.

As to hitting monsters with throwing weapons.  IIRC charm elemental damage happens regardless of whether or not you get a successful "hit" I will experiment with this, I may be thinking of poison skills for other classes. It has been too long since I played a sorceress.

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.
also, does anyone know if lighting's casting animation is affected by FCR or not? I only ask because it seems to last as long as it takes for the lightning to travel out of the sorc, and i doubt fcr changes how fast the lightning travels.
Edit history:
Coriolanus: 2005-07-14 07:56:22 pm
My idea about skills:
1 static, everything else up until 11 into CB.
Rest into lightning.
Buy a +1 teleport staff in act3.

I agree with this plan.

Telekinesis is worthless. If you can buy teleport, you can pump up your damage skills. Heck, you might even try to buy a +1 to static field staff at the beginning! In fact, you dont need much for static field or teleport, just 3 skills. You can try building a lightning-fire sorcerous with your other skills. With izzy and radamant you have 22 skills when fighting Diablo and 23 when fighting baal. 23 - 3 = 20 that you can totally pump up a level one skill with, or use synergies on a level 6 or 12 skill. The lower static field is, the more tactical skill you need while playing... but that's what speed running is all about!

A little about mana:

35 + (2 x (level -1)) + (5 x 2 x (level - 4) ) + Z

term 1: starting mana

term 2: mana per level

term 3: 5 attribute points per level, 2 mana per attribute point - with three levels dedicated to 25 strength so you can wear a belt.

term 4: additional mana from items

at level 1: 35
at level 6: 95 + Z
at level 12: (by now you have 25 str for a belt) 137 + Z
at level 18: 209 + Z
at level 20: 233 + Z
at level 21: 245 + Z

if you have 9 mana potions and 3 health potions (just in case) in your belt you practically have (245 + Z) * 9 + potion overage & passive mana regeneration. That's a lot of mana! You should be able to give'em hell for a long time without shift-reloading your belt or (god forbid) going back to town for mana!

Also, when is the soonest you can get a belt from charsi or gheed?

You might also consider as a general principle taking the time to get the extra skill from the den of evil. Has any one tested it for time cost?
I think the animation for lightning/chain lightning is based on weapon speed, of all things.

This lightning sorc idea sounds crazy at first, but if you do basically what marsh did then it could be very feasible. Interesting stuff!

Edit history:
marshmallow: 2005-07-14 08:40:04 pm
Jack of all Trades
Using a maphack in the actual run would cause you get laughed at.

As for the Sorc, I'm a little confused at how you claim such a time using the pathetic charged bolt, especially in terms of leveling. You contradict all the testing I did. The only characters that are slower than a Sorc at the beginning are melee, but they might as well have been deleted when Blizzard introduced the 1.10 patch.


That was one of the major bugs they fixed in 1.10.
Edit history:
StuporMan: 2005-07-14 08:44:36 pm
Stupor is as Stupor Does
flechette is correct.  Lightning and Chain Lightning are based on attack speed, not cast speed. That is why nova was (and may still be) more popular than lightning or chain lightning despite the higher base damage of these spells. You may find that charged bolt can cause more damage per second overall, especially on single enemies Shocked Lightning would still probably be best on large, lined up groups as it will damage all of them.

Take note that if you stand directly beside a monster there are certain positions that every bolt from charged bolt will hit the target. This trick is used often by trapasins as they can drop charged bolt sentries right next to the enemies while standing at a safe distance. This would be more risky for a sorceress, but since she casts more CB per cast would also get a bigger reward.  Just some thoughts.

I stand corrected about lightning, apparently this was changed in 1.10 and I just didn't notice.

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.
Corio - fire/lightning sorc? I can't imagine fire being viable, unless I just grab fire wall and use it as a damage supplement vs bosses. And the static field staff would be nice, but then I'd need a staff for +cb, a staff for +tele, a staff for +armor, a staff for +static, and maybe a staff for +lightning. I'd rather lose 1 skill point in CB than take the time and inventory space of switching them out all the time (unless i'm lucky to get one that gives a bonus to 2 or more of those skills). Teleport is a main priority, cuz it's 2 skills of course.

My stat point distribution is not really as planned as it shoudl be. I go for energy on first levelup, because mana potions are not common at that point. Second levelup I go for strength, so I can use a buckler and some armor. It helps, really, especially against archer bosspacks where I usually get annihilated. A couple more levels pumping energy, then I go vita until I start getting pissed at how much mana I'm losing, and eventually str goes to 25 for belt, then vita.

Charged bolt is surprisingly mana efficient, usually 3 or 4 casts of charged bolt will wipe out anything below minions, and that amount of mana is almost neglectable.

Afiak, as soon as you get to act 2, belts are for sale, I've never seen otherwize. I've even had a belt dropped in the catacombs, but didn't have the str to use it.

Usually I keep 2 healing/2 mana potions on belt (sometimes 2nd pack of healing I use for juvies instead), but once I start to tele, I'm either gonna go 1/3 or 0/4, depending on how much mana it really takes to tele through those damn jungles.

If anyone wants my first section run, IM me at Siyko (i'll be on from 5pm EST onwards) and I'll send it to you. I appreciate all the advice, and hope to eventually make a run under 90 minutes!
Edit history:
Coriolanus: 2005-07-14 10:35:07 pm
At level 18 in the jungle you may have ~209 + Z mana. teleport is 24 mana, so you could do 9 or more teleports on a full orb: that is actually quite alot, especially if you know where you are going. It is especially nice for getting Khalim's bodyparts. Of course exp is still a factor in act 3, so you cant go too fast Wink

To clarify a build for the future:

Sorc: 3 levels strength, (for the belt )
        17 levels energy
        den of evil, radamant, izual = + 4 skills = 24 skills
        while holding the +1 firebolt staff at least till level 6.
level  skill choice skill level damage
    1              fire bolt  (0 + 1)  3-6
    2              fire bolt  (1+1)  4-7
    3              fire bolt  (2 +1)  6-9
den        fire bolt    (3+1)    7-10
    4              fire bolt    (4+1)  9-12
    5              fire bolt  (5+1)  10-13
    6              static field (1) *
    7              fire bolt  (6)  10-13
    8              fire bolt  (7)  12-15
    9              fire bolt  {8}  13-16
  10              fire bolt  (9)  15-19
  11              fire bolt (10) 17-22
radamant    <skip>
  12              fireball  (1)  14.4-36 , telekenisis (1) *
  13              fireball  (2)  33.6-57.6
  14              fireball  (3)  50.4-79.2
  15              fireball  (4)  69.6-98.4
  16              fireball  (5)  86.4-120
  17              fireball  (6)  103.2-139.2
  18              teleport (1) *
  19              fireball  (7)  122.4-160.8
  20            fireball  {8}  139.2-180
  izzy            fireball  (9)  180.34-228.6,  fire bolt  (11)  46.36-61
  21              fireball  (10)  213.36-264.16

As you can see, the fireball damage becomes insane quickly. Moreover, by purchasing your +1 to static field staff, and then your +1 to teleport staff, you can pump up fire ball, or add a nice frost nova, or add one to warmth, three to blaze, three to fire wall, add a little extra radius to static field... the list goes on and on! More over, you could by pass the den, or radamant, or izzy if you decided you can afford to forsake those extra skill points.

* alternatively you could just get the skill from a staff

(I'm almost interested to see an inferno(16)/warmth{8} build... 324-357 dmg/sec at clvl 21, range = 10.6 yards !!!!! you'd be hurtin' till level 6 though!)