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Flip: 2013-05-08 10:02:06 am
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Manhunt 2 (Any %) (Segmented) (pal) (ps2)

Verifier Responses

Quote from Uilnslcoap:
I took one look at each level about a week ago.  A/V seemed okay, and the play is very solid with generally risky strats throughout (I know how annoying it is to make it through that second shooting level as passively as that).  I'll give a more detailed breakdown tonight or tomorrow, but going off what I remember, I'm inclined to say ACCEPT in the meantime.

My circumstances playing this game are atypical.  I had to do it for work (I’m a tester), and have never played it since it came out.  Not my favorite game I ever worked on professionally, but I have solid enough memories of it to verify.  OUCH, the loading screens on this version are awful.  Feels almost like they should be cut down in the video, they take up so much space, would be nice if they were just long enough to see the level title/image.

I’d also like to add that it seems to me since this is essentially a set of ILs, it would be nice to have the “Leo wins” level in here *checks internet*: “Release Therapy”.

Are you invincible during certain animations (e.g. prying something with a crowbar)?  I honestly don’t remember either way, just curious.

01 Awakening: slip-up at 2:33 getting hooked on gurney (I don’t think this is a purposeful stop anyway, unlike others in this level).  Otherwise, solid.  Good killing the one dude in the shadows near the end so he wouldn't have to move the body.

02 Ghosts: Good.  I don’t know if the AI cooperated fully on the second-to-last death.  Might it sometimes run through the window a little sooner instead of getting stuck outside for a second?  I could be off-base here, though.

03 Sexual Deviants: Nice run.  I wonder, does the brick exchange have to be as slow as it is?  Mightn’t it be possible to toss the brick away somewhere before instead of exchanging it for the head (so that you pick up the head automatically and gain a second or whatever over exchanging the brick for it)?

04 Red Light: Probably the best segment/level so far (which you’d expect, it being so short).  Controls in this game aren’t awesome, as I recall, so taking tight turns on staircases and such is not to be taken for granted.

05 Best Friends: That’s really nice, using the jump execution to warp (not literally, the gap between him and the victim is closed in a shorter time period by the jump than if he’d hidden somewhere) right next to the other guy so he can instantly execute him too.  Clever.  Ah, guns at last.  That’ll speed things up.  I don’t suppose there’s any way to get the final guy that’s shot before the trigger closer to the trigger so Leo doesn’t have to move him so far?  Caught on the door at 4:14.  Another question: possible to make it to the boat without getting the last set of painkillers?  I know it’s the end of the level, but all the levels are fairly short, so if those pills and opening that cabinet could be omitted, it would make a difference.  Head shots, Michael chase throughout gun portion all seem good.

06 Safe House: That was great, I know how unlikely that is to pull off, I remember doing it.  Super-short, great health suspense.

07 Bees’ Honey Pot: Good, though I think maybe the courtyard fight where you have to kill all the dudes before the next door opens might have gone a bit better in the early going.

08 Assassination: Uh, is it really possible to go through this level and not get hurt at all?  I don’t remember that being possible (maybe something is different with the PAL version in this level, enemy damage seems like what I remember in other levels before this), and I know I tried running through all of these as fast as I could at one point.  The choice of which enemies to kill and the sprint strategy are both good.  Compare to the next level in terms of bullets being fired near the player character and how much damage he takes.

09 Most Wanted: Good, the last execution to get the gun could have happened a second or two earlier, I think, though.

10 Ritual Cleansing: Bit of a controls flub around 3:38.  The kill at 4:30 seems like it could have happened at least a second sooner.  The design of how and when to set each set of files alight seemed well-planned to never alert anyone and make things seamless.  Isn’t it faster just to run over and open the next door when it’s that close instead of picking up the gasoline again (before setting the second set of papers on fire)?  You’d avoid an extra pick-up AND put-down animation if you sprinted back to it when it’s just a few feet away.  Seems like doubling back would add less time than the extra pick-up/put-down, but I could be wrong.  Maybe the guard timing makes this impossible or unnecessary or something?

11 Origins: Picking up the gun and head from 2:20-2:24, seems like it takes 3 or 4 seconds to swap the saw out for the gun.  Really a long time, seems like a reset right there, even though that would be frustrating since the second half of the level is a lot more reliant on luck.  It takes kind of a long time to shoot each speaker too (especially the third one), although again the controls are not good.  If there’s any level I think outright needs improvement, it’s this one.  Awesome entertainment value on blowing the doc’s head off after he’s tranqed, though.

12 Broadcast Interrupted: Looks hooked on guard, then doorway at 1:02/1:03.  Bit of a hesitation going around the doorway around 1:37/1:38.  Running into the guy at 1:52 on purpose (maybe to not get fired on?)?  Quick look back, eh?  Running into the chair at 1:57 on purpose (seems going around would be a little faster?)?  Going behind the pillar at that point in the gunfight seems like playing it safe, especially since the gun is loaded again at the point when Danny makes it behind the pillar and only one guard at close range.  That’s 2.5 seconds or so lost compared to if Danny had just dodged around and immediately begun firing again when the gun was loaded (nearly full health, have to take that risk, AND Danny ends up with almost full health at the end, too).  Switching to the assault rifle behind the pillar, I support, though (two guards nearby).  Good to get the last set of kills in one clip from the assault rifle.  A reload there would be pretty hard to watch.  It’s entertaining, don’t get me wrong, but upon close examination, there are rough points, which is kind of a shame when it’s less than 2 minutes long.

13 Altered State: Seems like it takes an extra second to shoot the first window at 0:43.  I know these shooting controls are bad for a sniper shot like that, but it would be nice if the shot on the rope at 1:09-1:12 took like 2-2.5 seconds instead of 3-3.5.  The rest is pretty magnificent, though.  Probably a couple seconds of improvement possible throughout, but great pathing through the map, not using the last set of painkillers before opening the door and health at a sliver, sprint running out just as the last area is reached, not having any bullets left in the assault rifle: all good.

14 Domestic Disturbance: Wait…can’t you just run straight to the garage that is visited second in this level and hope the pliers are there?  Is the visit to the first garage necessary at all?  I thought it was just luck-based where the pliers happen to be.  Pretty bad, if so.  The rest is good.

15 Personality Clash: I would think both the Leo kill and the catacomb run could have gone better (caught on one fewer enemy?).  Aaand caught on the door at 1:36-1:38 or so.  The kill around 2:02 could have happened a second or two sooner.  Picking up the gun, seems like should be going into sprint sooner after weapon is picked up.  Could be significantly smoother at 2:27-2:29.  The shot on the lock is good, but that’s such a bad Leo encounter right after that.  The gun reload never needed to happen with a solid head shot (getting hit once would have been acceptable, I think), there were enough bullets to handle both Leos that appeared.

OVERALL: I felt the run lessened in quality a bit as the levels went on (in general, though 13 was a highlight, maybe I just got more critical as I went), but I still think the blueprints for an excellent are here, and on the whole, I’m for accepting this good run.  Still wondering about no damage in Assassination.

A/V is good
No cheating detected

Decision: Accept

Congratulations to André Göhlsch!
Thread title:  
F*ckin' sanity effects...
Yo, Flip, verifier 1 here.  My post is missing 6 levels.  Also, I edited some stuff at the top and bottom.  Apologies.
Fixed. Thanks for the heads up, forgot to copy in the most recent edit.
Oh cool, it has work without public verification. Wink


You had make a good job Uilnslcoap. I will try to give you some answers.

Ghosts: The last enemy (under the window) will come, when you pick up the injection, or he will Not come. The mission in the house is also to kill all enemy's or the mission will not end. The enemy's in the beginning are not important.

S Deviants: You have right. The problem is the beginning with the first kill. I pick up the stone and the barb wire stick. When I have not this objects, than yes it go faster. The problem for the stone, it is on my way. The barb wire stick, the problem is the 'activate board' for the door, the ps2 version has a small ugly bug on the 'board'.

Best Friends: Mikey, you can not kill him before, you must move far on him. For the last painkiller, yes it was a bit save, but it is a new short alternate way, because the old IL demo video was use of a longer way in the end area. So or so.

Assassination: It is real, when you look on every frame, than you can see that every bullet is flying away from me. I had play this mission mostly, because it is the hardest and it is a man mission. I have one or two more videos, with the same effect, also on the ntsc copy. Wink When someone hit me, my hands go up or you will see blood.

Ritual C: Trust me, when you not do what I do, than you have a problem with many enemy's (will come with the car).

Origins: criticize, ok. (I was freak out of this mission, it is the Hell, new is the beginning with faster kill and the middle was running without gun)

Altered State: Yes the rope, I also hate it. But the PS2 version has not enough power, I had not kill anyone, the map has a lag.

Domestic Dis: Yes you must open two garage doors and the second is Also luck based. When I have a bad day, than I must also go to the third garage. That is a bad idea from the producer. -> The same problem for Personality Clash, the injection need many luck.
F*ckin' sanity effects...
Hey morty, thanks for the feedback feedback.  Tongue  I definitely didn't seriously doubt Assassination since everything else is obviously legit, and it's been YEARS since I played this, so kudos to you.  Great level.
Edit history:
moooh: 2013-05-26 04:43:31 am
Just as was pointed out both by the verifiers as well as in the runner's comments, nothing carries over between levels and each mission is self-contained.
This means that this run is really an IL table and not a segmented run. Since there's no difference between playing each level from a clean file and playing each level from the replay level select screen, they are not separate categories.

This means that before we can post this submission we will also need a run for the Release Theraphy level so that we have a complete PAL version table.
* What about unlockable rewards and alternate modes? *

If a game has an unlockable character, bonus weapon, etc. that you collect as a reward, or other such alternate modes, a run on this mode will also be treated as a separate category.


Mission 16 is a Bonus mission. In the PC version you must unlock this mission before you can play it. That mean you need high kill rating stars, also on the beta version for PS2. The stars rating system was censored in the PSP, PS2 and Wii version. The timer was also censored. The PC version has this stars and timer rating system and was Official Released. This is also written in the BrandyGames series guide, also on IGN and gamespot and many more sites.

When you change the Rule, than you must delete the Wii run on the sda page, because it do not

include the bonus mission ! And the save file make also not sense on the Wii version.

Mission 15 comes the 'ending credits', my run is done.
Conversation ends. When not, than Flip must change the decision from accept to Reject, with the argument that this run has not done the Bonus mission. What will you tell me next month ?
IL tables are separate levels and we always require a full set of IL's for a first submission. Since the previous NTSC table for this game has the bonus mission included in the table, we simply require the same set of levels for the PAL table to be consistent.

If the Wii run turns out to also only have self-contained levels then yeah, that one should also have been an IL table in the first place and it might have been a mistake to put it up in it's current form. We will ask for someone to submit a level for the wii version and convert that run into an IL table as well. This is not changing rules. This is realizing the rules weren't previously correctly followed.

None of your levels were rejected, they are all accepted. We just need someone to also send in a run of the PAL version bonus mission before the table becomes posted. This doesn't have to be made by you. If you don't want to make a run for that level, someone else can submit that level alone and thus complete the table with the rest of your levels.
Quote from moooh:
IL tables are separate levels and we always require a full set of IL's for a first submission. Since the previous NTSC table for this game has the bonus mission included in the table, we simply require the same set of levels for the PAL table to be consistent.

This is not my first submission for this game. It is my 5 submission. The previous table was not NTSC, it was combined with PAL and NTSC.

I had submit segmented run and not IL.


I reject my run. The game end after mission 15.
The point is that a game has no segmented category if nothing carries over between missions. Then it is IL and should have been for the Wii run as well.
We did not realize that being the case when the first runs for this game were submitted. Now we do and we want to make it correct.

If the previous table was a mix of PAL and NTSC then we did another mistake with those runs. A mixed table between versions has never been allowed so those shouldn't have gone up in that form either.

All we ask is that you or someone else just sends in a run of the last individual level for this game to complete the table.
Quote from moooh:
All we ask is that you or someone else just sends in a run of the last individual level for this game to complete the table.

When the Bonus mission is a extra category, than yes. When not I reject my run.
Yes you can consider it extra in that regard.
moooh, you had make a big mistake. Sometimes it is better to shut down the mouth when you not know anything of this game. It is over, I reject my run. I have enough of you. You make runs longer, than the game is. 20 days later you come me with some F####  !
Edit history:
UraniumAnchor: 2013-05-26 02:05:42 pm
Not a walrus
I'm not sure why you think this is some decision that was made in a vacuum. This is not being done just to upset you, Yoshi's Island is the same way, the IL tables needed the bonus stages before we'd accept them too. Just because the old run was categorized incorrectly doesn't mean all future runs will be as well.

I'm also not sure what's so hard about doing one more level.
Quote from UraniumAnchor:
I'm also not sure what's so hard about doing one more level.

Because in mission 15 comes the END SCREEN, after the END Video.
Edit history:
UraniumAnchor: 2013-05-26 02:26:27 pm
Not a walrus
Which would matter if this were a segmented run and not an IL table.

6-8 in Yoshi's Island triggers the ending but you still have to do 6-E for the IL table.
We are not yoshi, this is manhunt !
Not a walrus
The same rules apply.
yes sure, but I stand on my point.

When someone submit a run for Resident Evil, than he must also submit the extra missions ?
Edit history:
UraniumAnchor: 2013-05-26 02:29:53 pm
Not a walrus
No, because Resident Evil does not have an IL category. This does. That is what your run is. Your run is not segmented.
Why is my run not segmented ?
Not a walrus
Because each level exists in a vacuum, separate from the others. Nothing carries between them.
Visit my profile to see my runs!
Mortyre, please don't get angry.  Just relax for a minute and let's hear this out.  I like you and your runs, and I don't want you to feel like you are being treated unfairly or for you to get angry and storm off with your runs.

For what it is worth, I don't understand why we can't post his run the way it is, either.  I generally do not like using past examples as counter-arguments to the prevailing reasoning, because with time comes change, and as pointed out above, just because something was done a certain way in the past does not mean it must continue to be done in that certain way.  But, just for the heck of it, nothing carries over between levels in Condemned or Switchball (two runs of mine), but these were considered segmented.  Is this a new rule, or were those runs treated as segmented runs because they contained every level?  I was even able to append my Switchball levels, which sure doesn't seem IL-table-ish. 
Visit my profile to see my runs!
Mortyre, go cool off.  The admins here are extremely reasonable people.  Don't ruin your side of the argument by getting out of control.  Just relax, go have fun outside for a couple hours, refresh, and come back, ok?