Majora's Mask General Discussion

Pokey

2009-09-07 06:05:07 pm

Speedrunner

202?!?!?!? He got dupe first try and wwff lullaby skip?

SD2

2009-09-07 08:05:55 pm

dem tokay

Quote from Pokey:

202?!?!?!? He got dupe first try and wwff lullaby skip?

Failed the dupe twice, messed up on Zora pots, a little mishap during Majora. Apart from that, don't really think there were any other big mistakes.

GameKube64

2009-09-08 06:35:40 am

Quote from ZFG:

Quote from GameKube64:

I found a new shortcut in the Woodfall Temple, now you don't have to use ANY bombs in the Woodfall Temple.

I haven't seen this on the recent speedruns.

Thats old, the reason it isn't used is because you wouldn't have hookshot at woodfall 1 and its useless in woodfall 2.

I've removed the video now, i thought it was new, and yes i just found out myself later today that it was useless. Sorry about that. Sad

quaziko

2009-11-18 03:33:05 pm

Mach Metal

The Majora's Mask SS run just posted was pretty nuts. Not expecting it, the Great Bay Temple boss skip was ridiculous. It's amazing how everything was able to be pulled off in a SS, quite an improvement over the former.

stanski

2009-11-19 03:31:52 am

wise fwom yo gwave

nice run sir! glad to see you submit it and improve the zelda speedrunning community by proving all this theoretical stuff can be put together by a human into a full run.

AAA

2009-11-19 04:13:02 pm

I noticed that the game page lists the earliest game time, but the actual run isn't there anymore. Is that being removed as a run category?

mikwuyma

2009-11-19 05:05:47 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Quote from AAA:

I noticed that the game page lists the earliest game time, but the actual run isn't there anymore. Is that being removed as a run category?

No, I just goofed. The problem should be fixed soon.

http://speeddemosarchive.com/forum/index.php/topic,10943.msg305383.html#msg305383

mcbroiler

2009-11-20 02:23:42 pm

Run, you pigeons. It's Robert Frost!

Is there a glossary of terms for the skips? I'd love to know whats actually going on with these glitches/tricks.

Manocheese

2009-11-20 02:59:06 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

I just watched the run. It was very well done overall. I was especially impressed by all the superslides, but almost every glitch was performed pretty quickly. Congratulations.

Greenalink

2009-11-20 04:30:55 pm

DS Dictator

Quote from mcbroiler:

Is there a glossary of terms for the skips? I'd love to know whats actually going on with these glitches/tricks.

http://www.zeldaspeedruns.com/site/index.php?game=mm

If you look on the left half of the page you get to see the techniques (like explosive hovering) to sequence breaking (like Wrong Warps from the Fairy Fountain).
The techniques Jiano did not used were:
* Bottle Adventure (unlike Ocarina of Time, the glitch isn't useful on the Any% run)

* Broken Deku Stick (The run very rarely/hardly use the deku stick)

* Collection Delay (This trick was discovered after the run was made but it makes Bottle Duplication a bit easier in Single Segment runs as you got more than 3 frames reaction to pause the game).

* Goron Bomb Jump (Goron Mask has been skipped :D)

* Ground Jump (Can't really remember but it's an obsoleted trick now)

* Recoil Jump (A harder variant of a very effective damage boosting jump that requires a roll and a ledge).

* Extended Superslide (Not sure if he used this)

* Flying Zora (There was a easier method to reach to Great Bay's Fairy Fountain but a bit slower)

* Gainer (I think this trick was discovered after the run was made, a faster variant of the Ground Jump).

Hope this helps Cheesy

[quote="mcbroiler"]
Is there a glossary of terms for the skips?  I'd love to know whats actually going on with these glitches/tricks.  
[/quote]

http://www.zeldaspeedruns.com/site/index.php?game=mm

If you look on the left half of the page you get to see the techniques (like explosive hovering) to sequence breaking (like Wrong Warps from the Fairy Fountain).
The techniques Jiano did not used were:
* Bottle Adventure (unlike Ocarina of Time, the glitch isn't useful on the Any% run)

* Broken Deku Stick (The run very rarely/hardly use the deku stick)

* Collection Delay (This trick was discovered after the run was made but it makes Bottle Duplication a bit easier in Single Segment runs as you got more than 3 frames reaction to pause the game).

* Goron Bomb Jump (Goron Mask has been skipped :D)

* Ground Jump (Can't really remember but it's an obsoleted trick now)

* Recoil Jump (A harder variant of a very effective damage boosting jump that requires a roll and a ledge).

* Extended Superslide (Not sure if he used this)

* Flying Zora (There was a easier method to reach to Great Bay's Fairy Fountain but a bit slower)

* Gainer (I think this trick was discovered after the run was made, a faster variant of the Ground Jump).

Hope this helps :D

UchihaSasuke

2009-11-20 04:35:30 pm

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

i watched the run 2 days ago and it was quite good. my favorite moment was the Twinmold battle. lots of hard tricks pulled off in SS conditions make it a big accomplishment.
it is also fun seeing other people's reactions when they see parts of the run.

TheQuietMan

2009-11-20 04:44:58 pm

Complete. Global. Saturation.

Quote from Greenalink:

* Extended Superslide (Not sure if he used this)

It's used in a few places, such as the Great Bay and some of the field sections.

Quote from UchihaSasuke:

it is also fun seeing other people's reactions when they see parts of the run.

As a dedicated player of the game, I'm still having trouble finding the words to describe most of what I just saw, so this reaction image of what my expression was like most of the time will have to do:

Jiano

2009-11-20 10:55:58 pm

Thanks for all the feedback. MM is truly underrated, so I do what I can to get it more exposure. Hopefully I can get my hands on a Wii(VC version is better than 64) and do some more MM runs.

mcbroiler

2009-11-21 11:48:54 am

Run, you pigeons. It's Robert Frost!

Quote from Greenalink:

Quote from mcbroiler:

Is there a glossary of terms for the skips? I'd love to know whats actually going on with these glitches/tricks.

http://www.zeldaspeedruns.com/site/index.php?game=mm

If you look on the left half of the page you get to see the techniques (like explosive hovering) to sequence breaking (like Wrong Warps from the Fairy Fountain).
The techniques Jiano did not used were:
* Bottle Adventure (unlike Ocarina of Time, the glitch isn't useful on the Any% run)

* Broken Deku Stick (The run very rarely/hardly use the deku stick)

* Collection Delay (This trick was discovered after the run was made but it makes Bottle Duplication a bit easier in Single Segment runs as you got more than 3 frames reaction to pause the game).

* Goron Bomb Jump (Goron Mask has been skipped :D)

* Ground Jump (Can't really remember but it's an obsoleted trick now)

* Recoil Jump (A harder variant of a very effective damage boosting jump that requires a roll and a ledge).

* Extended Superslide (Not sure if he used this)

* Flying Zora (There was a easier method to reach to Great Bay's Fairy Fountain but a bit slower)

* Gainer (I think this trick was discovered after the run was made, a faster variant of the Ground Jump).

Hope this helps Cheesy

Thanks so much. It was a great run, and now I can figure out how some of those glitches worked!

[quote="Greenalink"]
[quote="mcbroiler"]
Is there a glossary of terms for the skips?  I'd love to know whats actually going on with these glitches/tricks.  
[/quote]

http://www.zeldaspeedruns.com/site/index.php?game=mm

If you look on the left half of the page you get to see the techniques (like explosive hovering) to sequence breaking (like Wrong Warps from the Fairy Fountain).
The techniques Jiano did not used were:
* Bottle Adventure (unlike Ocarina of Time, the glitch isn't useful on the Any% run)

* Broken Deku Stick (The run very rarely/hardly use the deku stick)

* Collection Delay (This trick was discovered after the run was made but it makes Bottle Duplication a bit easier in Single Segment runs as you got more than 3 frames reaction to pause the game).

* Goron Bomb Jump (Goron Mask has been skipped :D)

* Ground Jump (Can't really remember but it's an obsoleted trick now)

* Recoil Jump (A harder variant of a very effective damage boosting jump that requires a roll and a ledge).

* Extended Superslide (Not sure if he used this)

* Flying Zora (There was a easier method to reach to Great Bay's Fairy Fountain but a bit slower)

* Gainer (I think this trick was discovered after the run was made, a faster variant of the Ground Jump).

Hope this helps :D
[/quote]
Thanks so much.  It was a great run, and now I can figure out how some of those glitches worked!

mikwuyma

2009-11-23 08:45:29 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

The Majora's Mask page has now been fixed.

ZeroGX

2009-11-27 09:38:07 am

Real Bottle Duplication for real bottle slots.

anybody know if this trick may be used in 100%?

SoulCalibrII

2009-11-27 01:02:05 pm

That's hard to say whether it should be allowed. You are technically filling out your inventory, although you are not collecting the items that are suppose to fill in those slots. (i.e. you can still collect the other available bottles) Just for the sake of simplicity though, I'd allow it.

DK64_MASTER

2009-11-27 03:19:13 pm

This is the first speedrun I've watched in 2 years. I wasn't disappointed. Well done Jiano!! Smiley

Paraxade

2009-11-27 03:22:12 pm

That bottle duping thing seems about as legal as duping skulltula tokens or anything else. Though I'm not part of SDA's staff, by precedent, it's allowed, but you still have to get the rest of the bottles normally.

AAA

2010-06-13 06:24:22 pm

I just watched the 100% run again and thought I'd share some thoughts on how to improve it. I'll say now that I haven't played the game in years, so I'm by no means an expert on it, but I was still able to find some things that could have been done better and hope this could help someone who wants to improve that run.

Two major things stuck out to me about the way the run was done. First, it wasn't very efficient with money. He often withdrew a lot of money from the bank, which hinders progress toward the 5k rupee heart piece and necessitates more grinding later on. He also bought things that he could have gotten for free. The worst example of this is buying milk to give to a mummy, then on the next cycle getting a free bottle of milk for saving the cows, which goes unused.

This brings up the second major thing to be improved: the ranch quests should be done on the second cycle. This would give earlier access to infinite magic and the bunny hood for the time spent running around as a human. With that, I have come up with a very skeletal route for the second cycle. This can be fleshed out by someone who knows the game better.

First Day
Learn Song of Healing.
Help witches, get first bottle.
Deku Palace: get beans for well.
Go to Woodfall, Get bow.
Complete Snowhead ASAP, get powder keg.
Remove boulder from Milk Road.
Agree to help Romani.
Get Hookshot and first Zora Egg.
Get Bermen Mask.
Give sword to blacksmith right before defending ranch.
Get Bunny Hood at first opportunity

Second Day
Retrieve Razor Sword.
Goron race, unless its faster to do this on Day 1.
Protect wagon from bandits, then do graveyard stuff.
Go to Ikana, get Gibdo Mask, go through well.
Upgrade to Gilded Sword.
With three empty bottles, finish up Pirate Fort and Pinnacle Rock.

The second cycle would probably be the best time to beat the other 3 temples and do the Don Gero quest, as the current run does. Again, I'm not an expert at this game, so this route is rather bare-bones. This is also not meant to be a strict order, since doing things another way may well be faster. The trick is finding out how to save more real time on a run so dependent on game time events.

I just watched the 100% run again and thought I'd share some thoughts on how to improve it. I'll say now that I haven't played the game in years, so I'm by no means an expert on it, but I was still able to find some things that could have been done better and hope this could help someone who wants to improve that run.

Two major things stuck out to me about the way the run was done. First, it wasn't very efficient with money. He often withdrew a lot of money from the bank, which hinders progress toward the 5k rupee heart piece and necessitates more grinding later on. He also bought things that he could have gotten for free. The worst example of this is buying milk to give to a mummy, then on the next cycle getting a free bottle of milk for saving the cows, which goes unused.

This brings up the second major thing to be improved: the ranch quests should be done on the second cycle. This would give earlier access to infinite magic and the bunny hood for the time spent running around as a human. With that, I have come up with a very skeletal route for the second cycle. This can be fleshed out by someone who knows the game better.

[b]First Day[/b]
Learn Song of Healing.
Help witches, get first bottle.
Deku Palace: get beans for well.
Go to Woodfall, Get bow.
Complete Snowhead ASAP, get powder keg.
Remove boulder from Milk Road.
Agree to help Romani.
Get Hookshot and first Zora Egg.
Get Bermen Mask.
Give sword to blacksmith right before defending ranch.
Get Bunny Hood at first opportunity

[b]Second Day[/b]
Retrieve Razor Sword.
Goron race, unless its faster to do this on Day 1.
Protect wagon from bandits, then do graveyard stuff.
Go to Ikana, get Gibdo Mask, go through well.
Upgrade to Gilded Sword.
With three empty bottles, finish up Pirate Fort and Pinnacle Rock.

The second cycle would probably be the best time to beat the other 3 temples and do the Don Gero quest, as the current run does. Again, I'm not an expert at this game, so this route is rather bare-bones. This is also not meant to be a strict order, since doing things another way may well be faster. The trick is finding out how to save more real time on a run so dependent on game time events.

RingRush

2010-06-13 06:44:42 pm

The 100% run is extremely outdated. I'm not even sure it is used as a baseline for the current route. Great to see people trying to improve routes though.

Mr. Piggy

2010-06-13 07:10:38 pm

In the infinite

Would this be the fastest known route for 100%? http://www.zeldaspeedruns.com/site/index.php?link=mm/routes/100perc
It says "Last updated August 15, 2009," so have any improvements been found between then and now?

I actually thought about doing a 100% MM run but I'd like to try a few other games before I even think about doing this one. Not to mention the countless glitches I'd have to practice Tongue

It would be a veeeerrrry long project.

RingRush

2010-06-13 07:12:40 pm

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that isn't the most updated either. Even our current route is still under the process of being updated. Your best bet to find out information on this is through the irc: server irc.metroid2002.com and channel #zelda.

AAA

2010-06-13 10:31:47 pm

After re-watching the much more recent any% run, I realize i had forgotten just how little barriers like the Milk Road boulder and Ikana sun blocks mean anymore, and all the crazy glitches that can affect the order things are done. Looks like Well items don't even need to be considered. That's what I get for posting with an almost 5-year-old run fresh in mind :P. It seems like it's going to be a while before anyone attempts a new 100% run, but it should be great when it eventually arrives.

Toes

2010-06-14 12:11:27 am

Quote from AAA:

After re-watching the much more recent any% run, I realize i had forgotten just how little barriers like the Milk Road boulder and Ikana sun blocks mean anymore, and all the crazy glitches that can affect the order things are done. Looks like Well items don't even need to be considered. That's what I get for posting with an almost 5-year-old run fresh in mind :P. It seems like it's going to be a while before anyone attempts a new 100% run, but it should be great when it eventually arrives.

Siglemic is currently in the process of planning and practicing for a 100% Single Segment run. So it will be sooner than you think.