Majora's Mask General Discussion

MrGrunz

2008-09-19 07:52:10 pm

Merry Chrismas =)

your right.

someboy said it already. The recoil flip is probably the trick for a single segment run

MrGrunz

2008-09-22 01:45:33 pm

Merry Chrismas =)

I noticed something pretty weird of my Ikana Castle run.

when I fighted against the boss I did the shield sword attack and without speaking to something or reading something I activated the ISG.

you can see it at 2:19

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=MQrN140s1ww

Could somebody tell me, why this happened?

petrie911

2008-09-23 02:41:17 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

I would guess it's because the boss hit you at just the right time, interrupting the end of your shield stab.

Incidentally, it's probably faster to put off Ikana until after you get the Light Arrows in 100%.

MrGrunz

2008-09-25 02:52:07 pm

Merry Chrismas =)

probably yes.
with light arrows you could also save some bombchus there

stricken

2008-10-06 08:15:52 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

thread is ages old I know

but after recently completing a Ocarina of Time run, I picked up Majoras mask, and so far have been doing FAIRLY well at most of the tricks.

Only trick I dont' know how to do ._. is the high grab with zora link.

I've seen videos and all I see is them toss a bomb, turn to zora link, and shield. Nothing else.... any one mind helping me out here, it's the only thing keeping me from doing the run Tongue

although I'm following a different route than petrie (i've been going off of the TAS xD, even though I'm not doing a TAS)

If you don't mind teling me how to do it Tongue

and please laugh at my idiot self in the proces.. I'd be greatly appreciative!

petrie911

2008-10-06 08:20:35 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

1) pull out bomb
2) turn into Zora
3) punch away from the bomb
4) Face the bomb and hold up your shield while Z-targetting
5) Press A to attempt to grab bomb while holding R
6) While still holding R, wait for the bomb to explode

Now you have stored a ground jump. To release it, backflip or sidehop (backflip gets more height).

stricken

2008-10-06 08:27:59 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from petrie911:

1) pull out bomb
2) turn into Zora
3) punch away from the bomb
4) Face the bomb and hold up your shield while Z-targetting
5) Press A to attempt to grab bomb while holding R
6) While still holding R, wait for the bomb to explode

Now you have stored a ground jump. To release it, backflip or sidehop (backflip gets more height).

Thanks now I can complete my run Cheesy

petrie911

2008-10-26 01:31:54 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

I don't think this would be viable for real time play, but here's a fun 100% trick in GBT.

I suppose I should get back to work on that 100% route I've been making.

MrGrunz

2008-10-26 07:18:06 am

Merry Chrismas =)

I also searched for tricks in this room and I wasn't able to do on of the tricks you used in your video. here's my non TAS video.

what do you think, petrie?

probably my method uses to many chus.

do we need to activate the green switch in the 100% run?

petrie911

Edit history:

petrie911: 2008-10-26 12:59:10 pm

2008-10-26 11:45:51 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

We don't turn the switch, actually.

Anyways, for unassisted, use the Deku mask to walk up the seesaws and onto the platform (they won't tip over for him). Line yourself up, then swap to Zora and immediately roll jump to the next platform. Repeat to get to the green switch, then walk down the pipe and climb onto the next section of pipe as a Zora.

Alternatively, hover over the yellow barrier. This would probably be faster in a TAS, too, so I'm hoping we don't have the chus necessary.

The water wheel one is completely infeasible for unassisted. The shot to the chest has a 1 frame window.

And now for something actually useful in unassisted runs

Saves chus on certain hovers. This is one example. I'm looking for more.

Suddoman

2008-11-02 01:37:48 pm

I was looking at how the minimalist challenge works out. And I was wondering: Can you could activate the ISG off a breakable pot? Because if you can you can do the entire run free of chus and bombs, and instead use the Blast Mask. The amount of time that some activities increase is insane (climbing stone tower) because of the Cooldown on the mask but if it decreases the amount of items used it has to be done.

Toes

2008-11-02 04:11:58 pm

Quote from Suddoman:

I was looking at how the minimalist challenge works out. And I was wondering: Can you could activate the ISG off a breakable pot? Because if you can you can do the entire run free of chus and bombs, and instead use the Blast Mask. The amount of time that some activities increase is insane (climbing stone tower) because of the Cooldown on the mask but if it decreases the amount of items used it has to be done.

Impossible, unless of course you use an enemy for damage also.
One hover off the ground will keep you in the air for a little bit then you fall back to the ground.

petrie911

2008-11-02 04:40:27 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Why bother with the Blast Mask? It can be done with bombs only. Bombs vs. Blast mask is a simple item tradeoff, and bombs are much faster.

Secondly, how exactly do you expect to activate ISG for the first Sun block with only the Blast Mask? What about the one in front of Gyorg's Door?

Also, Blast Mask requires the Hookshot. There is absolutely no way to get some of the Zora eggs without it. Climbing Stone Tower probably makes the Hookshot required in any case, but there's the possibility of skipping it with bombs. Wouldn't be pleasant, though.

Suddoman

Edit history:

Suddoman: 2008-11-03 05:13:05 am

2008-11-03 03:10:24 am

Quote from petrie911:

Why bother with the Blast Mask? It can be done with bombs only. Bombs vs. Blast mask is a simple item tradeoff, and bombs are much faster.

Secondly, how exactly do you expect to activate ISG for the first Sun block with only the Blast Mask? What about the one in front of Gyorg's Door?

Also, Blast Mask requires the Hookshot. There is absolutely no way to get some of the Zora eggs without it. Climbing Stone Tower probably makes the Hookshot required in any case, but there's the possibility of skipping it with bombs. Wouldn't be pleasant, though.

Ah thanks I forgot about those two instances. But don't you need Hookshot to get onto the turtle island thing, I think there was an invisible wall (maybe I didn't try aiming high enough).

I forgot to do the math but do you have enough Bombs to get up Stone Tower do the instance and all that crap with out running out of bombs. We don't have Song of Soaring so no reloading Ammo.

Edit: Okay I just got back from watching the Stone Tower segment of SoulCal's vid and he takes 22 Explosions to get to the top of stone tower. This means bombs only is 2 short plus you would have to repeatedly segement yourself at the owl to refill on bombs to get into the temple itself. Plus how many does it take (TAS) to get into snowhead without lullaby (Just watched one that was 29, or 30+ with the more useable method you have post on your YouTube account).

At this point I have to ask for a definition of low% does every item have an equal value. Because if so then it may come down to use a set of items and 2 items of your choice from certain combination.

[quote="petrie911"]
Why bother with the Blast Mask?  It can be done with bombs only.  Bombs vs. Blast mask is a simple item tradeoff, and bombs are much faster.

Secondly, how exactly do you expect to activate ISG for the first Sun block with only the Blast Mask?  What about the one in front of Gyorg's Door?

Also, Blast Mask requires the Hookshot.  There is absolutely no way to get some of the Zora eggs without it.  Climbing Stone Tower probably makes the Hookshot required in any case, but there's the possibility of skipping it with bombs.  Wouldn't be pleasant, though.
[/quote]

Ah thanks I forgot about those two instances. But don't you need Hookshot to get onto the turtle island thing, I think there was an invisible wall (maybe I didn't try aiming high enough).

I forgot to do the math but do you have enough Bombs to get up Stone Tower do the instance and all that crap with out running out of bombs. We don't have Song of Soaring so no reloading Ammo.

Edit: Okay I just got back from watching the Stone Tower segment of SoulCal's vid and he takes 22 Explosions to get to the top of stone tower. This means bombs only is 2 short plus you would have to repeatedly segement yourself at the owl to refill on bombs to get into the temple itself. Plus how many does it take (TAS) to get into snowhead without lullaby (Just watched one that was 29, or 30+ with the more useable method you have post on your YouTube account).

At this point I have to ask for a definition of low% does every item have an equal value. Because if so then it may come down to use a set of items and 2 items of your choice from certain combination.

petrie911

2008-11-03 11:02:51 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

You forget that you can get bomb drops from Beamos, giving you more than enough bombs to get up. Repeated segmenting to refill is one option. The other is to hover across to STT, enter the temple, then exit, hook back to the owl state, get bombs, kill yourself off the bottom, reenter the temple, and repeat until you have enough bombs. Segmenting is obviously best for SDA timing, but I'm not sure which is best for TAS timing.

All items count equally in low%, as otherwise you have the disaster of trying to assign values to each item. And yes, that sometimes means you have optional items. 22% in Metroid Prime has a choice between Boost Ball and Space Jump (everyone picks Space Jump as no Space Jump is exceedingly hard and much slower), and 15% Super Metroid has a choice between Speed Booster and Ice Beam.

BTW, I think an item should only count for low% if it counts for 100%. So things that disappear after the SoT should not count.

Suddoman

2008-11-03 04:12:32 pm

Aw I thought my idea had value, for the climbing stone tower but I completely spaced on the Beamos. And interesting thing with the you get Deku Sticks and Nuts because they reset on use of the SoT, do we have anything official on that subject, I mean could you do a 100% speedrun with no Deku Nuts just to piss (excuse me if thats considered a bad word hopefully it will just censor it) everyone off.

So as it stands I think that have both Bombchus and Bombs are force now because of the sun blocks. When I was thinking about the low% run I was more worried about the outside dungeons and less about in them. If someone finds away to get around that block (and a couple other things) the blast mask could become a replacement I just like it because when I try and test my ability to climb Stone Tower it has unlimited ammo and that makes thing a lot easier.

Also back the very first question I asked can you activate ISG off a breakable pot it would be a one shot try but all the same, Is it possible (outside of TAS).

Aw I thought my idea had value, for the climbing stone tower but I completely spaced on the Beamos. And interesting thing with the you get Deku Sticks and Nuts because they reset on use of the SoT, do we have anything official on that subject, I mean could you do a 100% speedrun with no Deku Nuts just to piss (excuse me if thats considered a bad word hopefully it will just censor it) everyone off.

So as it stands I think that have both Bombchus and Bombs are force now because of the sun blocks. When I was thinking about the low% run I was more worried about the outside dungeons and less about in them. If someone finds away to get around that block (and a couple other things) the blast mask could become a replacement I just like it because when I try and test my ability to climb Stone Tower it has unlimited ammo and that makes thing a lot easier.

Also back the very first question I asked can you activate ISG off a breakable pot it would be a one shot try but all the same, Is it possible (outside of TAS).

petrie911

2008-11-03 04:17:10 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Staircase hovering in MM makes Bombchus unnecessary. As for the Deku Nuts/Sticks, how many you have resets after SoT, but the fact that their icons are in the inventory does not. so, yeah, no deku nuts/sticks.

ZFG

2008-11-03 05:12:13 pm

MrGrunz is a guay

If bombchus are being skipped, we need to get the hookshot right?

petrie911

2008-11-03 09:26:59 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Oh yeah. I'm not wholly sure that even with chus the hookshot is skippable, as it's a LONG way up Stone Tower.

ZFG

Edit history:

ZFG: 2008-11-03 10:30:07 pm

2008-11-03 10:01:07 pm

MrGrunz is a guay

I'm pretty sure I've made it up ST once without the hookshot but I don't remember. I know it doesn't really matter since hookshot > bombchus, but I'm curious so I'll go try right now.

Edit: No way in hell is it possible. Either I was using blast mask or I'm imagining things.

petrie911

2008-11-04 01:29:08 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Yeah, and there's certainly no question as to the time tradeoffs in Hookshot vs Blast Mask. It's sort of like Boost Ball vs Space Jump. Both give the same percent, but one's MUCH faster and easier.

Suddoman

Edit history:

Suddoman: 2008-11-04 05:18:04 pm

2008-11-04 04:51:21 pm

So you can get on the island turtle without the hookshot you just need to get high enough.

Also if anyone's good at TASing I'd love to see this run done.

Edit: You still haven't explained how you climb Snowhead with bombs only. You might be able to pull off blast mask only by using the spiral path to hover off of though testing would have to be done. If that falls through as an option then blast mask become obsolete except to maybe increase time but easy the pay of repetitive staircase jumping (mean you can chain a Blast Mask off a standard bomb) plus it would cut down on the store runs (not enough to make it the best but something).

petrie911

2008-11-05 12:53:49 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Oh, right. In the TAS version, the superslide up the hill leaves enough bombs to do a direct hover onto the path from the right side (the (very) old way of doing it). At the very least, this provides a way to get up. You might have to hover off a Boe, though.

The unassisted version presents problems, as the superslide up the hill requires extremely good timing. Hovering around the hill leaves you with few bombs, meaning we'll need a better way up. However, bombchus solve those problems just as well as the Blast Mask, and are noticably faster. The limited time between gusts make staircase hovers questionable.

The last option would be to give up the Hookshot for the Blast Mask. Stone Tower would be nightmarishly long, but it would technically solve those problems. And you'd have to be really, REALLY good with Blast Mask hovers.

Suddoman

2008-11-05 06:47:53 am

Blast Mask hovers (once you get used to them) I find easier, plus it stops become about speed so although ST would become a nightmare on time it would actually become a breather although after the ~5th time of screwing up it would become more annoying then helpful.

MrGrunz

Edit history:

MrGrunz: 2008-11-05 05:41:55 pm

2008-11-05 04:54:14 pm

Merry Chrismas =)

here's an alternate method for the deku palace trick.
could be useful

I also discovered a nice method to get to the Great Bay Heart Piece: