Majora's Mask General Discussion

2009-06-04 12:55:44 pm

I just tried the bottle trick. I replaced the PictoGraph box, lens of truth, and deku nuts as bottles. However, when you pause the game, the inventory items aren't replaced with the bottles (even after placing an item in them). But as long as you don't put another item on that C-button location, it stays as a useable bottle. The only benefit I see is that you can "add" 2 more bottle to your inventory when you go collect the Zora eggs, but it eliminates the use for 2 C-buttons. We could use two duplicated bottles, then the original one itself to carry the remaining eggs for the Pirate Fortress and Eel Domain.

For real time this posses a problem because there is a lot of pausing since you would be constantly switching items for that 1 available C slot, but for game time this is an absolute blessing!

IF ANYONE CAN THINK OF A WAY TO PERMANENTLY CHANGE THE INVENTORY ITEMS THEN PLEASE SHARE!

Attachment:

bottles.GIF

Suddoman

Edit history:

Suddoman: 2009-06-04 11:50:49 pm

2009-06-04 01:43:05 pm

Quote from SoulCalibrII:

This bottle trick will probably be nice to try out for the 6-Day Challenge run too...getting all the zora eggs in one go will reduce my current time by a few hours. Can you turn any mask (say, Giant Mask) into a bottle? Then we could just kill Twinmold with arrows (which is faster for game time because we don't have the gilded sword.) What about turning event items (land deeds, Inn key, or letters) into bottles? Does that work?

If you get the giant's mask then you might as well beat twinmold first. Beating him with arrows is hard and time consuming (at least for me it is).

ZFG

2009-06-04 04:18:52 pm

MrGrunz is a guay

Beating twinmold with arrows is easy.

SoulCalibrII

2009-06-04 08:59:18 pm

Okay, disregarding my earlier post about not multiplying onto the inventory...my emulator didn't work properly or something and wouldn't multiply bottles onto the inventory screen, only the C-buttons. Here is the result after about 5 minutes of fun if the emulator is working like it should.

Will test on console ASAP.
And the person who is able to figure out how to multiply the items IN the bottles and not just the bottles themselves deserves a cookie.

RingRush

2009-06-04 09:32:38 pm

Quote from SoulCalibrII:

And the person who is able to figure out how to multiply the items IN the bottles and not just the bottles themselves deserves a cookie.

We know a bit more than what we've posted here :p.

If you get an item in a non-bottle bottle, you can play song of time and have it stay in that bottle. Using this, you can duplicate things like Deku Princess and Zora Eggs (which is unfortunately not faster Sad

) by getting them again. A way to dupe an item without having to recollect would be amazing though.

Also Unreal has some method I don't understand to clone fish and bugs, but who cares about that.

Juice

2009-06-05 06:14:20 pm

I'm diggin this new bottle trick, I was actually looking for a bottle duplicate trick not too long ago cuz i figured that collecting the zora eggs is the most time consuming part in an MM run. Is it Sub 1:30 yet?

Also, is there a TAS in progress?

Unreal

2009-06-06 04:52:17 pm

SoulCalibrII, have you been working on a new game time route? I'm doing a game time test run on an emulator and I'm currently going to use Grunz's old tas route. Of course the bottle glitch will need to be added along with a few other changes as well. He said it would a good route to follow but I'm curious if you already have one made.

SoulCalibrII

2009-06-06 09:08:51 pm

Yeah, I'm working on a new gametime speedrun, although I may just reuse some of my old segments. Everything will be the same up until my first woodfall segment. I am doing it on emulator first. I am up until activating the ikana canyon owl statue, and the only route change so far is using the fairy fountain wrong warp from great bay to go to ikana (which is about 11 game minutes faster than my other method.) It is also nice that I won't have to do the goron race for a 2nd bottle, and this saves another 39 game minutes. Mr Grunz also discovered the nice trick of getting into the curiosity shop early, but unfortunately the owner isn't at the front counter until nighttime. If there was another method to multiply bottles, then I could get all 4 pirate eggs when I get the hookshot. The only other route change is collecting all the zora eggs with fewer drop offs.

Any other route changes I should include?

Unreal

2009-06-06 09:41:36 pm

Quote from SoulCalibrII:

Yeah, I'm working on a new gametime speedrun, although I may just reuse some of my old segments. Everything will be the same up until my first woodfall segment. I am doing it on emulator first. I am up until activating the ikana canyon owl statue, and the only route change so far is using the fairy fountain wrong warp from great bay to go to ikana (which is about 11 game minutes faster than my other method.) It is also nice that I won't have to do the goron race for a 2nd bottle, and this saves another 39 game minutes. Mr Grunz also discovered the nice trick of getting into the curiosity shop early, but unfortunately the owner isn't at the front counter until nighttime. If there was another method to multiply bottles, then I could get all 4 pirate eggs when I get the hookshot. The only other route change is collecting all the zora eggs with fewer drop offs.

Any other route changes I should include?

Petrie and I were just discussing the route an hour ago in irc. We didn't get very far but are main discussion was how we would start off the run. As in bay/ikana ww/swamp or your route of swamp/mountain/etc. We also had an idea of getting Goron Mask at the start of the run. But anyways, it seems to me that petrie will be constructing a new route soon so drop into irc whenever you have the chance.

[quote="SoulCalibrII"]
Yeah, I'm working on a new gametime speedrun, although I may just reuse some of my old segments. Everything will be the same up until my first woodfall segment. I am doing it on emulator first. I am up until activating the ikana canyon owl statue, and the only route change so far is using the fairy fountain wrong warp from great bay to go to ikana (which is about 11 game minutes faster than my other method.) It is also nice that I won't have to do the goron race for a 2nd bottle, and this saves another 39 game minutes. Mr Grunz also discovered the nice trick of getting into the curiosity shop early, but unfortunately the owner isn't at the front counter until nighttime. If there was another method to multiply bottles, then I could get all 4 pirate eggs when I get the hookshot. The only other route change is collecting all the zora eggs with fewer drop offs.

Any other route changes I should include?    
[/quote]

Petrie and I were just discussing the route an hour ago in irc. We didn't get very far but are main discussion was how we would start off the run. As in bay/ikana ww/swamp or your route of swamp/mountain/etc. We also had an idea of getting Goron Mask at the start of the run. But anyways, it seems to me that petrie will be constructing a new route soon so drop into irc whenever you have the chance.

ZeroGX

2009-06-06 10:42:14 pm

Quote from SoulCalibrII:

Okay, disregarding my earlier post about not multiplying onto the inventory...my emulator didn't work properly or something and wouldn't multiply bottles onto the inventory screen, only the C-buttons. Here is the result after about 5 minutes of fun if the emulator is working like it should.

Will test on console ASAP.
And the person who is able to figure out how to multiply the items IN the bottles and not just the bottles themselves deserves a cookie.

Cookies are not enough. Tongue

Just kidding. I'll try this.

Unreal

Edit history:

Unreal: 2009-06-08 10:36:26 am

2009-06-07 10:01:57 pm

Test Segment 2 (6:03-6:49)
Test Segment 4 (7:05-7:42)

I'll post more.

petrie911

2009-06-08 09:15:00 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Quote from SoulCalibrII:

but unfortunately the owner isn't at the front counter until nighttime. If there was another method to multiply bottles, then I could get all 4 pirate eggs when I get the hookshot. The only other route change is collecting all the zora eggs with fewer drop offs.

That changes things a bit. If we have to take 2 trips to the Fortress regardless, there's no need to have a bottle the first time we go, as we can just dupe an extra one and get 4 eggs on the second trip. WW to the palace is now quite practical, and probably saves a good amount of time running around through the swamp. Which means we have more testing to do...

Unreal

2009-06-08 10:32:03 am

Ikana to Swamp

I get the bottle here. The time was 7:42 - 8:22 btw. <_<

WW to Palace... You would still have to get the bottle obviously but I see where you're coming from. After the WW to Ikana make your way to the Swamp and get the bottle...then warp. Then again, I may be wrong. >__>

SoulCalibrII

2009-06-08 12:19:19 pm

Quote from petrie911:

Quote from SoulCalibrII:

but unfortunately the owner isn't at the front counter until nighttime. If there was another method to multiply bottles, then I could get all 4 pirate eggs when I get the hookshot. The only other route change is collecting all the zora eggs with fewer drop offs.

That changes things a bit. If we have to take 2 trips to the Fortress regardless, there's no need to have a bottle the first time we go, as we can just dupe an extra one and get 4 eggs on the second trip. WW to the palace is now quite practical, and probably saves a good amount of time running around through the swamp. Which means we have more testing to do...

If you get the hookshot, you might as well get the egg that is in the tank right next to it. I was saying if you have 4 bottles when you go to the Fortress the 1st time (aka, another method of multiplying bottles w/o the curio shop), then you won't have to make a 2nd trip at all! And if we are able to dupe the eggs themselves, then that will make this information obsolete. Just dupe the egg to the left of the Hookshot 7 times, but unfortunately there is no method, if any at all, to multiply the items.

[quote="petrie911"]
[quote="SoulCalibrII"]but unfortunately the owner isn't at the front counter until nighttime. If there was another method to multiply bottles, then I could get all 4 pirate eggs when I get the hookshot. The only other route change is collecting all the zora eggs with fewer drop offs.
[/quote]

That changes things a bit.  If we have to take 2 trips to the Fortress regardless, there's no need to have a bottle the first time we go, as we can just dupe an extra one and get 4 eggs on the second trip.  WW to the palace is now quite practical, and probably saves a good amount of time running around through the swamp.  Which means we have more testing to do...
[/quote]

If you get the hookshot, you might as well get the egg that is in the tank right next to it. I was saying if you have 4 bottles when you go to the Fortress the 1st time (aka, another method of multiplying bottles w/o the curio shop), then you won't have to make a 2nd trip at all! And if we are able to dupe the eggs themselves, then that will make this information obsolete. Just dupe the egg to the left of the Hookshot 7 times, but unfortunately there is no method, if any at all, to multiply the items.

SoulCalibrII

2009-06-08 03:51:00 pm

Quote from Unreal:

SoulCalibrII, have you been working on a new game time route?

I just completed a test route on emulator, with the only changes from my current route being the Fairy Fountain wrong warp from Great Bay to Ikana, no Goron race, and beating Twinmold with arrows. I arrived at Clocktown with all temples except Great Bay done, and ready for the bottle multiplication at 6:40pm; 40 minutes "late."

Wow, I didn't know that I would beat my old time by so much considering I arrived at curiosity shop at 10:01 in my run (but that is with +1 more zora egg). 39 minutes of it was no Goron Race, 11 minutes of it was the Wrong Warp to Ikana, and the other 2 hours are meaningless now because I am not going for Zora eggs with 1 bottle. I was playing on emulator though, so you can expect that my console run would be about 25 minutes slower. So unless a new route is planned (thanks to Pete and Unreal), then we can save a lot more time.

I declare the 6-Day Challenge needs to be renamed "Can we get to the Curiosity Shop before 6pm?". Grin

[quote="Unreal"]
SoulCalibrII, have you been working on a new game time route?[/quote]

I just completed a test route on emulator, with the only changes from my current route being the Fairy Fountain wrong warp from Great Bay to Ikana, no Goron race, and beating Twinmold with arrows. I arrived at Clocktown with all temples except Great Bay done, and ready for the bottle multiplication at 6:40pm; 40 minutes "late."

Wow, I didn't know that I would beat my old time by so much considering I arrived at curiosity shop at 10:01 in my run (but that is with +1 more zora egg). 39 minutes of it was no Goron Race, 11 minutes of it was the Wrong Warp to Ikana, and the other 2 hours are meaningless now because I am not going for Zora eggs with 1 bottle. I was playing on emulator though, so you can expect that my console run would be about 25 minutes slower. So unless a new route is planned (thanks to Pete and Unreal), then we can save a lot more time.

I declare the 6-Day Challenge needs to be renamed "Can we get to the Curiosity Shop before 6pm?".  ;D

petrie911

2009-06-08 05:30:28 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Quote from SoulCalibrII:

Quote from petrie911:

Quote from SoulCalibrII:

but unfortunately the owner isn't at the front counter until nighttime. If there was another method to multiply bottles, then I could get all 4 pirate eggs when I get the hookshot. The only other route change is collecting all the zora eggs with fewer drop offs.

That changes things a bit. If we have to take 2 trips to the Fortress regardless, there's no need to have a bottle the first time we go, as we can just dupe an extra one and get 4 eggs on the second trip. WW to the palace is now quite practical, and probably saves a good amount of time running around through the swamp. Which means we have more testing to do...

If you get the hookshot, you might as well get the egg that is in the tank right next to it. I was saying if you have 4 bottles when you go to the Fortress the 1st time (aka, another method of multiplying bottles w/o the curio shop), then you won't have to make a 2nd trip at all! And if we are able to dupe the eggs themselves, then that will make this information obsolete. Just dupe the egg to the left of the Hookshot 7 times, but unfortunately there is no method, if any at all, to multiply the items.

That's not quite what I meant. What I'm saying is that if we go to the pirate's fortress twice regardless, we have the option of getting all 4 eggs on the second trip without losing any time. Thus, we don't need a bottle on the first trip, giving us more route planning flexibility. For example, WW to the palace was originally discarded because we wouldn't have a bottle for the Fortress the first time through. Since that is no longer a problem, WW to palace becomes very practical. And while it's helpful to have a bottle when you get Goron Mask, it's not really necessary.

[quote="SoulCalibrII"]
[quote="petrie911"]
[quote="SoulCalibrII"]but unfortunately the owner isn't at the front counter until nighttime. If there was another method to multiply bottles, then I could get all 4 pirate eggs when I get the hookshot. The only other route change is collecting all the zora eggs with fewer drop offs.
[/quote]

That changes things a bit.  If we have to take 2 trips to the Fortress regardless, there's no need to have a bottle the first time we go, as we can just dupe an extra one and get 4 eggs on the second trip.  WW to the palace is now quite practical, and probably saves a good amount of time running around through the swamp.  Which means we have more testing to do...
[/quote]

If you get the hookshot, you might as well get the egg that is in the tank right next to it. I was saying if you have 4 bottles when you go to the Fortress the 1st time (aka, another method of multiplying bottles w/o the curio shop), then you won't have to make a 2nd trip at all! And if we are able to dupe the eggs themselves, then that will make this information obsolete. Just dupe the egg to the left of the Hookshot 7 times, but unfortunately there is no method, if any at all, to multiply the items.
[/quote]

That's not quite what I meant.  What I'm saying is that if we go to the pirate's fortress twice regardless, we have the option of getting all 4 eggs on the second trip without losing any time.  Thus, we don't need a bottle on the first trip, giving us more route planning flexibility.  For example, WW to the palace was originally discarded because we wouldn't have a bottle for the Fortress the first time through.  Since that is no longer a problem, WW to palace becomes very practical.  And while it's helpful to have a bottle when you get Goron Mask, it's not really necessary.

SoulCalibrII

2009-06-08 05:43:32 pm

For a real time run, we need to play SoT to get into curio early to multiply bottles and go to Pirate Fortress once. For game time, we will have to go twice.

Suddoman

2009-06-08 06:12:35 pm

So in the new 6-day challenge, have Great Bay being last?

SoulCalibrII

2009-06-09 08:41:37 am

Quote from Suddoman:

So in the new 6-day challenge, have Great Bay being last?

Yeah, that's the way it has been.

Suddoman

2009-06-09 07:50:14 pm

I hate how I'm always out of date on the MM routes.

SoulCalibrII

2009-06-09 09:15:34 pm

Quote from Suddoman:

I hate how I'm always out of date on the MM routes.

Well let me fill you in Suddoman on some route ideas.

Now with the new bottle trick, I changed my route from my current game time speedrun to not include the goron race or the trip to Ikana Canyon. Everything else was the same. I was able to reach the curiosity shop ready for bottle multiplication (with Woodfall, Snowhead, and Stone Tower completed) at 6:40; only 40 minutes away from optimal time.

I then tested Petrie's idea of going for Zora mask first, then Fairy wrong warp to Ikana, then use the river to get to the swamp. I get the witch bottle, activate the owl statue, use zora boomerangs to kill the octorok, get the sonata of awakening, then go get the song of soaring and open up woodfall. The rest of the route is the same as my current run. Sadly, though we thought this route was better, I arrived at the curiosity shop at 6:47.

Unfortunately, I do not see any significant difference in either route. I either need to create a different method of approaching some of my segments, change the route somewhere, or simply do better (only need to cut off about 2 minutes per segment to arrive at 6:00pm but easier said than done.) The best option right now is to see if Lullaby skip would be beneficial. Even if I can cut off just 10 minutes with an unoptimized Snowhead climb and crappy Snowhead Temple segment, it is still worth it.

[quote="Suddoman"]
I hate how I'm always out of date on the MM routes.
[/quote]

Well let me fill you in Suddoman on some route ideas.

Now with the new bottle trick, I changed my route from my current game time speedrun to not include the goron race or the trip to Ikana Canyon. Everything else was the same. I was able to reach the curiosity shop ready for bottle multiplication (with Woodfall, Snowhead, and Stone Tower completed) at 6:40; only 40 minutes away from optimal time.

I then tested Petrie's idea of going for Zora mask first, then Fairy wrong warp to Ikana, then use the river to get to the swamp. I get the witch bottle, activate the owl statue, use zora boomerangs to kill the octorok, get the sonata of awakening, then go get the song of soaring and open up woodfall. The rest of the route is the same as my current run. Sadly, though we thought this route was better, I arrived at the curiosity shop at 6:47.

Unfortunately, I do not see any significant difference in either route. I either need to create a different method of approaching some of my segments, change the route somewhere, or simply do better (only need to cut off about 2 minutes per segment to arrive at 6:00pm but easier said than done.) The best option right now is to see if Lullaby skip would be beneficial. Even if I can cut off just 10 minutes with an unoptimized Snowhead climb and crappy Snowhead Temple segment, it is still worth it.

Slowking

Edit history:

Slowking: 2009-06-11 10:45:13 am

2009-06-11 05:49:53 am

Quote from petrie911:

That's not quite what I meant. What I'm saying is that if we go to the pirate's fortress twice regardless, we have the option of getting all 4 eggs on the second trip without losing any time. Thus, we don't need a bottle on the first trip, giving us more route planning flexibility. For example, WW to the palace was originally discarded because we wouldn't have a bottle for the Fortress the first time through. Since that is no longer a problem, WW to palace becomes very practical. And while it's helpful to have a bottle when you get Goron Mask, it's not really necessary.

I really don't think that it's worth it. It adds one extra WW, so a lot of extra explosives that you have to buy.
Furthermore from the witches to the palace is really not that far. Just do a SS from their hut as a zora and once you hit a curve continue with a ISS and you are practically there already. During a WW the clock still ticks, so you'll probably be faster at the palace if you just slide through the swamp and you save explosives.

Quote from SoulCalibrII:

I then tested Petrie's idea of going for Zora mask first, then Fairy wrong warp to Ikana, then use the river to get to the swamp.

That was my idea first. :p Cheesy

Quote from SoulCalibrII:

I get the witch bottle, activate the owl statue, use zora boomerangs to kill the octorok, get the sonata of awakening, then go get the song of soaring and open up woodfall. The rest of the route is the same as my current run. Sadly, though we thought this route was better, I arrived at the curiosity shop at 6:47.

With this you might not have saved time up until the curio shop but you saved time for later, since the zora owl is already activated (I suspect you activated the observatory owl anyway when you got the hookshot). So this way should definately be faster.

Btw. I don't know the current route but I would suggest to get the hookshot right after activating the woodfall owl. You can just use a deku bubble in PF and take the extra cutscene since it doesn't add anything to gametime. That enables you to do woodfall in one go and you can overwrite the bow with a bottle later on.

Is there a current route somewhere?

[quote="petrie911"]

That's not quite what I meant.  What I'm saying is that if we go to the pirate's fortress twice regardless, we have the option of getting all 4 eggs on the second trip without losing any time. Thus, we don't need a bottle on the first trip, giving us more route planning flexibility.  For example, WW to the palace was originally discarded because we wouldn't have a bottle for the Fortress the first time through.  Since that is no longer a problem, WW to palace becomes very practical.  And while it's helpful to have a bottle when you get Goron Mask, it's not really necessary.
[/quote]

I really don't think that it's worth it. It adds one extra WW, so a lot of extra explosives that you have to buy.
Furthermore from the witches to the palace is really not that far. Just do a SS from their hut as a zora and once you hit a curve continue with a ISS and you are practically there already. During a WW the clock still ticks, so you'll probably be faster at the palace if you just slide through the swamp and you save explosives.

[quote="SoulCalibrII"]
I then tested Petrie's idea of going for Zora mask first, then Fairy wrong warp to Ikana, then use the river to get to the swamp. 
[/quote]

That was my idea first. :p :D

[quote="SoulCalibrII"]
 I get the witch bottle, activate the owl statue, use zora boomerangs to kill the octorok, get the sonata of awakening, then go get the song of soaring and open up woodfall. The rest of the route is the same as my current run. Sadly, though we thought this route was better, I arrived at the curiosity shop at 6:47.
[/quote]
With this you might not have saved time up until the curio shop but you saved time for later, since the zora owl is already activated (I suspect you activated the observatory owl anyway when you got the hookshot). So this way should definately be faster.

Btw. I don't know the current route but I would suggest to get the hookshot right after activating the woodfall owl. You can just use a deku bubble in PF and take the extra cutscene since it doesn't add anything to gametime. That enables you to do woodfall in one go and you can overwrite the bow with a bottle later on.

Is there a current route somewhere?

SoulCalibrII

2009-06-11 03:08:53 pm

I tested a 3rd possible route in which I Fairy Fountain Wrong Warp from Clocktown to Woodfall. This is slightly faster since we don't have to travel across Termina Field, and we can also skip the owl statue in the swamp. After wrong warp, I activate the woodfall owl statue, then go in reverse to learn the Song of Soaring. Some may think at first this is slower, but technically I'm only traveling through the swamp once. Right after learning the SoS, I go to the Palace to get the Sonata of Awakening and warp to clocktown. I then go for the Goron and Zora Masks, fairy wrong warp from Zora Cape to Ikana. I then take the river downstream to the swamp get the witch bottle (because now I can travel through the woods of mystery with the goron mask, which is nearly twice as fast as using the deku). I tested on emulator and I arrived at Great Bay with 7 bottles ready to collect the eggs at 6:25, about 25 minutes faster than my other two test runs. I even messed up a few times to take into account that I will be playing on console (I used a lot of save states).

I am pretty consistent with my gameplay, but I'm sure there is some human error of about + or - 15 game minutes between the routes. It seems that either of the 3 routes would work as long as the player is capable of getting to the curio shop with Woodfall, Snowhead, and Stone Tower beaten before 6:00pm. This is the only thing that matters.

I tested a 3rd possible route in which I Fairy Fountain Wrong Warp from Clocktown to Woodfall. This is slightly faster since we don't have to travel across Termina Field, and we can also skip the owl statue in the swamp. After wrong warp, I activate the woodfall owl statue, then go in reverse to learn the Song of Soaring. Some may think at first this is slower, but technically I'm only traveling through the swamp once. Right after learning the SoS, I go to the Palace to get the Sonata of Awakening and warp to clocktown. I then go for the Goron and Zora Masks, fairy wrong warp from Zora Cape to Ikana. I then take the river downstream to the swamp get the witch bottle (because now I can travel through the woods of mystery with the goron mask, which is nearly twice as fast as using the deku). I tested on emulator and I arrived at Great Bay with 7 bottles ready to collect the eggs at 6:25, about 25 minutes faster than my other two test runs. I even messed up a few times to take into account that I will be playing on console (I used a lot of save states).

I am pretty consistent with my gameplay, but I'm sure there is some human error of about + or - 15 game minutes between the routes. It seems that either of the 3 routes would work as long as the player is capable of getting to the curio shop with Woodfall, Snowhead, and Stone Tower beaten before 6:00pm. This is the only thing that matters.

petrie911

2009-06-11 04:13:41 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Quote from SoulCalibrII:

I tested a 3rd possible route in which I Fairy Fountain Wrong Warp from Clocktown to Woodfall. This is slightly faster since we don't have to travel across Termina Field, and we can also skip the owl statue in the swamp. After wrong warp, I activate the woodfall owl statue, then go in reverse to learn the Song of Soaring. Some may think at first this is slower, but technically I'm only traveling through the swamp once. Right after learning the SoS, I go to the Palace to get the Sonata of Awakening and warp to clocktown. I then go for the Goron and Zora Masks, fairy wrong warp from Zora Cape to Ikana. I then take the river downstream to the swamp get the witch bottle (because now I can travel through the woods of mystery with the goron mask, which is nearly twice as fast as using the deku). I tested on emulator and I arrived at Great Bay with 7 bottles ready to collect the eggs at 6:25, about 25 minutes faster than my other two test runs. I even messed up a few times to take into account that I will be playing on console (I used a lot of save states).

I am pretty consistent with my gameplay, but I'm sure there is some human error of about + or - 15 game minutes between the routes. It seems that either of the 3 routes would work as long as the player is capable of getting to the curio shop with Woodfall, Snowhead, and Stone Tower beaten before 6:00pm. This is the only thing that matters.

Something to consider is to WW from the Palace to the Lens of Truth cave if you use this route. I'm not sure how feasible this is unassisted, but it would probably be faster than going in the mountains the front way. Explosive count may be a concern, but you should have a decent number of chus left for this.

[quote="SoulCalibrII"]
I tested a 3rd possible route in which I Fairy Fountain Wrong Warp from Clocktown to Woodfall. This is slightly faster since we don't have to travel across Termina Field, and we can also skip the owl statue in the swamp. After wrong warp, I activate the woodfall owl statue, then go in reverse to learn the Song of Soaring. Some may think at first this is slower, but technically I'm only traveling through the swamp once. Right after learning the SoS, I go to the Palace to get the Sonata of Awakening and warp to clocktown. I then go for the Goron and Zora Masks, fairy wrong warp from Zora Cape to Ikana. I then take the river downstream to the swamp get the witch bottle (because now I can travel through the woods of mystery with the goron mask, which is nearly twice as fast as using the deku). I tested on emulator and I arrived at Great Bay with 7 bottles ready to collect the eggs at 6:25, about 25 minutes faster than my other two test runs. I even messed up a few times to take into account that I will be playing on console (I used a lot of save states).

I am pretty consistent with my gameplay, but I'm sure there is some human error of about + or - 15 game minutes between the routes. It seems that either of the 3 routes would work as long as the player is capable of getting to the curio shop with Woodfall, Snowhead, and Stone Tower beaten before 6:00pm. This is the only thing that matters.
[/quote]

Something to consider is to WW from the Palace to the Lens of Truth cave if you use this route.  I'm not sure how feasible this is unassisted, but it would probably be faster than going in the mountains the front way.  Explosive count may be a concern, but you should have a decent number of chus left for this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNRNZMJpaQw

Slowking

2009-06-11 09:48:57 pm

The generic pit outside the deku palace would porobably be better suited to warp to lens of truth cave. The distance is much much shorter and it's not on the other end of the palace.

A route should imo always have the hookshot before doing woodfall. I don't know if that helps with the consideration, though.

SoulCalibrII, you could also ISS through the woods of mistery. I know it's hard, but a normal ISS should be doable with practise.
Also I still can't believe that the route through great bay at the beginning doesn't save you a huge chunk of time. Since you activate three owls on the way you can always return to later. Maybe you weren't in shape or something?
Btw. even with this route it would be faster not to activate the swamp owl, since the other way around to the palace is faster, espacially with a zora super slide. Ofcourse that would make it a long ass segment.

Btw. why are you so bent on getting to the curio shop at 6pm? Just because it's the best time you can get or is there something else behind it?

The generic pit outside the deku palace would porobably be better suited to warp to lens of truth cave. The distance is much much shorter and it's not on the other end of the palace.

A route should imo always have the hookshot before doing woodfall. I don't know if that helps with the consideration, though.

SoulCalibrII, you could also ISS through the woods of mistery. I know it's hard, but a normal ISS should be doable with practise.
Also I still can't believe that the route through great bay at the beginning doesn't save you a huge chunk of time. Since you activate three owls on the way you can always return to later. Maybe you weren't in shape or something?
Btw. even with this route it would be faster not to activate the swamp owl, since the other way around to the palace is faster, espacially with a zora super slide. Ofcourse that would make it a long ass segment.

Btw. why are you so bent on getting to the curio shop at 6pm? Just because it's the best time you can get or is there something else behind it?