low%/100% definitions

2008-09-19 10:41:59 pm

Quote from Enhasa:

About MZM, I agree with what you just said, but somebody tell me what we should do with the current run (if anything) and what we should say on the page.

Replace the low% run when someone does a 9% run. But until then, just leave it be. For the description on the game page, how about deleting the % mention altogether and just have it say “Runs on easy are not accepted as it's not different enough from normal.” If you change the low% definition to 9% in this topic, I think it’ll be enough.

MatrixTN

2008-09-19 11:47:10 pm

You got a deletion wish?

Quote from soteos:

Quote from Enhasa:

About MZM, I agree with what you just said, but somebody tell me what we should do with the current run (if anything) and what we should say on the page.

Replace the low% run when someone does a 9% run. But until then, just leave it be. For the description on the game page, how about deleting the % mention altogether and just have it say “Runs on easy are not accepted as it's not different enough from normal.” If you change the low% definition to 9% in this topic, I think it’ll be enough.

This is why 10% is needed, and Serris idk why you didn't link there in the first place. Normal 9% is currently noted as not allowed because 10% Hard is lower in terms of ammo. Do we want to take that clause out and allow 9% Normal for this?

KnifeRun

2008-09-20 03:48:48 am

more keys then pablo escobar

s rank means 100% then?

Serris

2008-09-20 04:50:12 am

Quote from MatrixTN:

Quote from soteos:

Quote from Enhasa:

About MZM, I agree with what you just said, but somebody tell me what we should do with the current run (if anything) and what we should say on the page.

Replace the low% run when someone does a 9% run. But until then, just leave it be. For the description on the game page, how about deleting the % mention altogether and just have it say “Runs on easy are not accepted as it's not different enough from normal.” If you change the low% definition to 9% in this topic, I think it’ll be enough.

This is why 10% is needed, and Serris idk why you didn't link there in the first place. Normal 9% is currently noted as not allowed because 10% Hard is lower in terms of ammo. Do we want to take that clause out and allow 9% Normal for this?

Well, I didn't link there because it doesn't really have anything to do with what my post was about. If you want my opinion on the matter: Allow 9% Normal and track US/JP 10% Hard and EU 9% Hard separately. For the description, you might want to explain why US/JP can't get 9% on Hard, and just leave it at that.

[quote="MatrixTN"]
[quote="soteos"]
[quote="Enhasa"]
About MZM, I agree with what you just said, but somebody tell me what we should do with the current run (if anything) and what we should say on the page.
[/quote]
Replace the low% run when someone does a 9% run. But until then, just leave it be. For the description on the game page, how about deleting the % mention altogether and just have it say “Runs on easy are not accepted as it's not different enough from normal.” If you change the low% definition to 9% in this topic, I think it’ll be enough.
[/quote]
[url=http://www.metroid2002.com/0/version_differences_9_percent_hard.php]This[/url] is why 10% is needed, and Serris idk why you didn't link there in the first place.  Normal 9% is currently noted as not allowed because 10% Hard is lower in terms of ammo.  Do we want to take that clause out and allow 9% Normal for this?
[/quote]

Well, I didn't link there because it doesn't really have anything to do with what my post was about. If you want my opinion on the matter: Allow 9% Normal and track US/JP 10% Hard and EU 9% Hard separately. For the description, you might want to explain why US/JP can't get 9% on Hard, and just leave it at that.

Poesta

2008-09-20 08:55:53 am

Yarr

In Abe's Oddysee there are 99 mudokons to save, not 100. Once I actually saved 101 according to the led screens ingame, but I think that was because my disk was glitching up. I haven't been able to reproduce it.

Carcinogen

2008-09-20 12:27:58 pm

Quote from KnifeRun:

s rank means 100% then?

It is in RE2 and 3, though it's impossible to speedrun the game without getting the highest rank.

KnifeRun

2008-09-21 10:11:28 am

more keys then pablo escobar

what? s rank has nothing to do withh 100% in any resident evil. maybe low%. but on top of that we dont have s rank in re

Carcinogen

2008-09-21 10:47:40 pm

Not in any non-JP versions we don't.

Correct me if I'm wrong, not that I agree with this stance, but I could've sworn somebody said it was 100%. Like I said, it's impossible to speedrun RE3 without getting an A-Rank. RE2, MAYBE, but the difference between an A-Ranker and a normal speedrun wouldn't be enough to warrant a difference. =\

Ekudeht

2008-09-22 07:51:02 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from Carcinogen:

Not in any non-JP versions we don't.

Correct me if I'm wrong, not that I agree with this stance, but I could've sworn somebody said it was 100%. Like I said, it's impossible to speedrun RE3 without getting an A-Rank. RE2, MAYBE, but the difference between an A-Ranker and a normal speedrun wouldn't be enough to warrant a difference. =\

I don't think low% or 100% really applies to the RE series at all...in fact I don't think they apply to most games. It's just a lazy way to try and charaterize all speedruns into 2 categories. Speedruns should just be characterized as either regular speedruns or restricted speedruns (i.e. speedruns in which the player puts specific rules and restrictions on the game). SDA can decide on a case by case basis whether the restrictions in a restricted speedrun are worth showcasing before any work is done in the game.

Carcinogen

2008-09-22 07:59:40 am

Which they pretty much do already. I was just regurgitating what I heard. =p

MrSparkle

2008-10-02 08:31:52 am

Doin Good

100%

Zelda The Wind Waker : All hearts, all items (Not figurines or charts), all upgrades, all songs, hurricane spin

The GBA link cable stuff is not included, of course...
http://speeddemosarchive.com/forum/index.php/topic,5209.360.html
Mikwuyama "verified" this 100% definition a while back

NoiseCrash

2008-10-10 11:14:24 am

@_@

It might be worth noting that the current Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon run also picks up all Surprise Packs (1-ups) and Ebisumaru's optional Meat-Saw Hammer. Since the current 100% definition only requires all fortune dolls (as it should, it's tracked at the end of the game and makes more sense) it may be worthwhile to do the strikeout thing with it so people will know that Wouter wasn't just wasting his time collecting 1-ups as he believed they would be included in the 100% definition.

Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon: all fortune dolls... ~~surprise packs, meat-saw hammer~~

Aeolocphry

2008-10-12 04:17:26 am

Metroid Prime Hunters 100%:

http://speeddemosarchive.com/forum/index.php/topic,6869.msg241217.html#msg241217

Just all pickups, scans aren't required. I doubt many people will ever attempt such a run until the unlikely day that some sort of actual DS recorder is made, but for all the people willing to crouch over a digital camera and hold the DS still, this is for you. Cheesy

Enhasa

2008-10-12 11:19:29 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Just so people don't get confused, I gave this thread to Mike since I really really hate this sort of shit and all the rules stuff is Mike's domain anyway.

I have a couple of responses and things I was going to check out but I don't feel like doing it now. I'm a little worried that people are just making up shit for some of the low%/100% and it should be blown up and only used for already decided upon definitions, but since the way to get a ruling is "ask Mike" and now he's the one updating, it's official anyway and who am I to care? Tongue

RaneofSOTN

2008-10-13 12:02:47 pm

I want off the ride....

You forgot about SoTN 100%
that was all relics + Best ending. Since the map is only used to determine best ending thats 196% map and all relics. (Which in the process of the map; you'd get all of the relics anyway)

mikwuyma

2008-10-13 02:30:05 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

We could just make SOTN the map, since that's what the game tracks and 200.6% isn't much more than 196%.

Satoryu

2008-10-13 05:02:00 pm

Visually Appealing

i dunno. i'd rather have the ruling consistent for all Metroidvanias; all abilities and best ending. a lot of those 40+ rooms are very arbitrary, and quite a few of them are slow. i thought the whole point of this thread was to cut down on unnecessary things.

Frezy

2008-10-13 06:57:38 pm

Just want to point out a mistake.

Mega Man X2: no items... Is NOT on SDA.

moooh

2008-10-18 03:30:34 am

Exoray

Quote from mikwuyma:

We could just make SOTN the map, since that's what the game tracks and 200.6% isn't much more than 196%.

There are several places throughout the game where you have to go into some obscure part of a ceiling for that fraction of the map to be triggered as visited (some of the corners in the royal chapel stairs or the underwater areas for instance). Most of these obscure unimportant fractions can not be triggered as visited until you get bat form or gravity boots meaning that you will end up having several scattered 0.1% areas that you would have to backtrack for. The underwater areas are especially annoying since they have curved surfaces of the ceiling and floor while the map is built on blocks. Some of the blocks are around 98% inside solid space leaving only a few pixels that can trigger the area. Having to watch someone going through the entire castle several extra times just to 'be' in all possible spaces of a screen seems like an unwanted feature of a speedrun.

I'm all for using the 196% as this would still fulfill the true requirements of a 100% (a noticeable different with the ending and all) whilst the remaining fractions bring absolutely nothing.

[quote="mikwuyma"]
We could just make SOTN the map, since that's what the game tracks and 200.6% isn't much more than 196%.
[/quote]

There are several places throughout the game where you have to go into some obscure part of a ceiling for that fraction of the map to be triggered as visited (some of the corners in the royal chapel stairs or the underwater areas for instance). Most of these obscure unimportant fractions can not be triggered as visited until you get bat form or gravity boots meaning that you will end up having several scattered 0.1% areas that you would have to backtrack for. The underwater areas are especially annoying since they have curved surfaces of the ceiling and floor while the map is built on blocks. Some of the blocks are around 98% inside solid space leaving only a few pixels that can trigger the area. Having to watch someone going through the entire castle several extra times just to 'be' in all possible spaces of a screen seems like an unwanted feature of a speedrun.

I'm all for using the 196% as this would still fulfill the true requirements of a 100% (a noticeable different with the ending and all) whilst the remaining fractions bring absolutely nothing.

mikwuyma

2008-10-18 08:45:57 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Frezy: Fixed

Satoryu and moooh: Fair enough, I'll keep SOTN the way it is.

Flip

2008-10-23 07:02:54 pm

1-Up!

Hey Mike, underneath MMX6 low% in the future runs category, you have listed "Low:..."

Based on its description and placement in the list, I think it's supposed to be a Metroid game, though I don't know which one.

mikwuyma

2008-10-24 12:21:46 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Fixed, it was supposed to be Metroid II.

DRybes

2008-10-30 02:25:40 pm

O Zlda?

I assume since there is a definition already up for 100% in Banjo-Kazooie on the first page, that it means you do NOT have to do anything other than the definition? So all note doors do not have to be opened and the red health bar does not have to be achieved, the fact that you could is enough? The people in the BK topic are kinda wondering about that one, I believe that's correct though.

---

Comment on Wario Land:

Yes, it will require the collecting of 9,999 coins during the course of the game to get best ending. Assuming you can get about 100 on each stage, average, this leaves 6,000 coins to be collected. Assuming the coin collecting minigame was played for a doubling of profit 100% of the time (it's 3 50/50 chances to either double or halve your coin count for that course), it would still leave 2,000 coins, making for, again assuming you could double your profit each time reliably, 10 additional runs through the one rice beach bonus course.

I say that's an awfully unreasonable requirement because of the luck you would need, and there's seemingly no way built into the game to cheat at it (or is there? it seems like the first bucket, on the first try, is the money more than half the time). Assuming the minigame was not used, the run would be unacceptably long. The only other option for quick coin accumulation is the obviously banned pause code that allows modification to 999 coins. While there are methods of coin accumulation in different levels (the birds with funnels on their heads spit out 30 coins if you throw an enemy into them; bosses give at least 100 coins on defeat; there are a few hidden 100 coin giant coins)... 9,999 is a hell of a number to get.

I suppose there's no way to change current opinions about that definition.

I assume since there is a definition already up for 100% in Banjo-Kazooie on the first page, that it means you do NOT have to do anything other than the definition? So all note doors do not have to be opened and the red health bar does not have to be achieved, the fact that you could is enough? The people in the BK topic are kinda wondering about that one, I believe that's correct though.

---

Comment on Wario Land:

[spoiler]Yes, it will require the collecting of 9,999 coins during the course of the game to get best ending. Assuming you can get about 100 on each stage, average, this leaves 6,000 coins to be collected. Assuming the coin collecting minigame was played for a doubling of profit 100% of the time (it's 3 50/50 chances to either double or halve your coin count for that course), it would still leave 2,000 coins, making for, again assuming you could double your profit each time reliably, 10 additional runs through the one rice beach bonus course.

I say that's an awfully unreasonable requirement because of the luck you would need, and there's seemingly no way built into the game to cheat at it (or is there? it seems like the first bucket, on the first try, is the money more than half the time). Assuming the minigame was not used, the run would be unacceptably long. The only other option for quick coin accumulation is the obviously banned pause code that allows modification to 999 coins. While there are methods of coin accumulation in different levels (the birds with funnels on their heads spit out 30 coins if you throw an enemy into them; bosses give at least 100 coins on defeat; there are a few hidden 100 coin giant coins)... 9,999 is a hell of a number to get.[/spoiler]

I suppose there's no way to change current opinions about that definition.

mikwuyma

2008-11-04 09:50:44 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Updated the Mystical Ninja Goemon 100% definition to all weapons and all fortune dolls.

sshplur

Edit history:

sshplur: 2008-12-10 10:39:09 pm

2008-12-07 01:39:24 am

For the new Prince of Persia (xbox360, PS3 and PC) there should be only any% (= low%) and 100% runs. Light seeds are the only things that affect speed running.

any% = only 540 light seeds to get all of Elika's powers. There'll be excess because of the way the game is structured but it won't affect the run.
100% = get all 1001 light seeds.

Added the 100% definition.