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Otaku
2008-10-05 06:52:54 am
The anime loving gamer!
Hi everyone one SDA. I was considering doing a LotR:  the 3rd Age speed run with new game plus. I would accomplish this by starting a new game, then transferring all treasure from Evil Mode to the file. Since the file would have to be started, THEN altered, would that be a violation of the rules?  Undecided

Anyway, I plan to explore the correct routes to go as well as set Idrial to learn Aura of the Valar as soon as possible.

If anyone has encouragement, discouragement, questions, or additions, they would be very much appreciated! Grin
Thread title:  
getter77
2008-10-05 08:01:05 am
100% runs=great to watch
Hmm....sounds kinda iffy to me, this whole start n' transfer notion.  Dunno.

I would love to see this game ran though, especially on the hardest mode going for 100% completion in terms of quests and such.  You could manage some crazy stuff indeed with segmenting and this game's whole "triple critical" aspect and whatnot.
ForteGS
2008-10-05 08:18:55 am
Bring me the flaming voodoo canonball!
It isn't really New Game+, since you don't get previous character weapons/items/level etc
You must also record the Evil Mode treasures, since they also count towards your time.

Go to first save point -> Do evil mode -> Continue with previous save with EM items.

There are many categories for this game:
Any% - Easy
Any% - Easy - Evil Mode Items
100% - Easy
100% - Easy - Evil Mode Items (= all evil modes played?)
Same 4 for Medium and Hard
Giving you 12 possible running categories

The only Evil Mode you have to do is Pelennor Fields.
Those Elf Stones give Idrial the ability to 1HKO any enemy and kill bosses very fast. (maybe 2 times this one for a magic Hadhod user).
You could also do Ossgiliath for Bertehors 2nd strongest weapon and/or Minas Tirith for Hadhods strongest weapon and Berethors strongest armor.

for an Any% route, I would suggest this (this is from my memory, so some parts could be wrong in the area order),
Eregion:
Just follow the route till Elegost joins you.
Go left and left again till you hit the next area.
Follow the route trough the ruins and exit the area
Follow the path downstairs (after the Berethor/Idrial/Elegost camping scene)
Follow the path eventually getting to the Dark Forest (oposite of the river where you started the game).
Follow the left path trough a small cave, kill the orc and retrieve the map.
Go back and now follow the right path to the next area.
Head left and fight the Troll to get Hadhod in your team.
Follow the path to Moria and Battle the KRAKEN!!!!
END EREGION

West Moria:
Head up the stairs and go left downstairs for another Kraken battle
Follow the route and open the chests containing the runes.
When you arrive at the 3-split (where the fellowship was camping), first take the path that triggers the Balrog scene (don't forget to grab the key if you want some better armor for Hadhod).
Next go to the room with the throne. This must be done, or else the door to East Moria won't open (the Axe in the next room is useless if you have done evil mode).
Now go to the last room, getting Hadhod's equips if you want and open the door for a battle before you enter East Moria.
END WEST MORIA

East Moria
The path you should follow is obvious, so I won't have to tell you.
Kill all the trolls, the goblin with the drum and the goblins at the Balrog statue thingy.
Help Gandalf fight the Balrog
END EAST MORIA

East Emnet Gullies
Find & help the elves (don't know from memory what the fastest way is)
Save the soldier at the end of the map and head into the next area
END EAST EMNET GULLIES

Plains of Rohan
Save woman from Orcs/Uruk Hai
Get Morwen.
Rally the troops. First do both sides of the cave, then village and last near Fangorn (Fangorn soldiers only appears when all others are done IIRC)
Head to the bridge gate for 3-4 battles
Open the gates to enter the "palace" or whatever building (not all switches are required)
Kick Grima's ass
Exit trough the east and get Eadoen
Go trough the cave and fight sharkui
Exit area for Helms Deep
END PLAINS OF ROHAN

Helm's Deep
Talk to Aragornn in the stables
Talk to the King at the front entrance wall
Talk to Gimli in the "throne room"
Talk to Legolas via the shortcut in the wall
You can get Hadhod's hammer if Evil Mode is not used for his strongest weapon.
Talk to guard in the Armory
Fight the first set of enemies at the front wall (3-4 fights)
Fight the second set of enemies at the Broken Wall
END HELM'S DEEP

Osgilliath:
Kill the few fights or orcs and defeat the orc leader (from the movie with 1 usable hand)
Only fight the orcs in the first area that can't be skipped
In the next area, fight 2 battles then again against the orc leader
Head to the door to enter the walls
Beat 2 Nazgul on wings, 3 if you want Hadhods weapon IIRC (they can be annoying without Idrial, unless you gave the stones to Eadoen for his drain HP skill)
Head down the stairs towards the sewers.
Follow the path to the big circulair area and fight the cave trolls.
Take the middle path (not sure) of all the possible routes
Head left and exit the sewers
With King fight
(you have a few Idrial solo fights while in the sewers)
END OSGILLIATH

Minas Tirith:
Kill all orcs at the entrance to make Gandalf appear
head in the next area and follow the path
Head up the stairs and go trough the next door
your party will be split up while you defend the walls
Follow the path up, fighting some orcs and humans along the way (and 1 Nazgul on wings)
Help Gandalf fight the Witch King
Enter the throne room, kill the orc at the throne
END MINAS TIRITH

Pelennor Fields (is like a bloody maze o.o )
follow the route, fighting humans and Elephaunts till you find the witch king
Aid Eowyn with the fight against the Witch King
Kill a few more baddies till you have a double fight.
Kill the first set of 4 Nazgul
Kill the second set of 4 Nazgul
Exit the field to battle the Eye of Sauron
END GAME

Team after Hadhod joins: Berethor/Idrial/Hadhod
Team after Eadoen joins: Berethor/Idrial or Eadoen/Hadhod (Eadoen being the replcament when Idrial is temporary gone)

Morwen sucks, she misses a lot of hits

Toughest battles:
Witch King (if Berethor doesn't have the anti-fear ability)
Balrog (without Evil Mode items and without Aura of the Valor -> the reviving spell when character dies)
Human soldiers in Minas Tirith and Pellenor Fields can be a pain in the ass when they put sleep on your character

Maybe get Berethors "stand ..." ability for against the Elephaunt stunning attack.

And watch out!!! Even though it is rare, a group of Nazgul can appear at ANY map!!!
getter77
2008-10-06 04:51:14 am
100% runs=great to watch
Getting all the questing and relevant armaments along the way should help tremendously on the bosses since you can stack resistances to all types of particular damage to great effect.
Otaku
2008-10-06 05:57:21 am
The anime loving gamer!
Quote from ForteGS:
It isn't really New Game+, since you don't get previous character weapons/items/level etc
You must also record the Evil Mode treasures, since they also count towards your time.

Go to first save point -> Do evil mode -> Continue with previous save with EM items.

There are many categories for this game:
Any% - Easy
Any% - Easy - Evil Mode Items
100% - Easy
100% - Easy - Evil Mode Items (= all evil modes played?)
Same 4 for Medium and Hard
Giving you 12 possible running categories

The only Evil Mode you have to do is Pelennor Fields.
Those Elf Stones give Idrial the ability to 1HKO any enemy and kill bosses very fast. (maybe 2 times this one for a magic Hadhod user).
You could also do Ossgiliath for Bertehors 2nd strongest weapon and/or Minas Tirith for Hadhods strongest weapon and Berethors strongest armor.

for an Any% route, I would suggest this (this is from my memory, so some parts could be wrong in the area order),
Eregion:
Just follow the route till Elegost joins you.
Go left and left again till you hit the next area.
Follow the route trough the ruins and exit the area
Follow the path downstairs (after the Berethor/Idrial/Elegost camping scene)
Follow the path eventually getting to the Dark Forest (oposite of the river where you started the game).
Follow the left path trough a small cave, kill the orc and retrieve the map.
Go back and now follow the right path to the next area.
Head left and fight the Troll to get Hadhod in your team.
Follow the path to Moria and Battle the KRAKEN!!!!
END EREGION

West Moria:
Head up the stairs and go left downstairs for another Kraken battle
Follow the route and open the chests containing the runes.
When you arrive at the 3-split (where the fellowship was camping), first take the path that triggers the Balrog scene (don't forget to grab the key if you want some better armor for Hadhod).
Next go to the room with the throne. This must be done, or else the door to East Moria won't open (the Axe in the next room is useless if you have done evil mode).
Now go to the last room, getting Hadhod's equips if you want and open the door for a battle before you enter East Moria.
END WEST MORIA

East Moria
The path you should follow is obvious, so I won't have to tell you.
Kill all the trolls, the goblin with the drum and the goblins at the Balrog statue thingy.
Help Gandalf fight the Balrog
END EAST MORIA

East Emnet Gullies
Find & help the elves (don't know from memory what the fastest way is)
Save the soldier at the end of the map and head into the next area
END EAST EMNET GULLIES

Plains of Rohan
Save woman from Orcs/Uruk Hai
Get Morwen.
Rally the troops. First do both sides of the cave, then village and last near Fangorn (Fangorn soldiers only appears when all others are done IIRC)
Head to the bridge gate for 3-4 battles
Open the gates to enter the "palace" or whatever building (not all switches are required)
Kick Grima's ass
Exit trough the east and get Eadoen
Go trough the cave and fight sharkui
Exit area for Helms Deep
END PLAINS OF ROHAN

Helm's Deep
Talk to Aragornn in the stables
Talk to the King at the front entrance wall
Talk to Gimli in the "throne room"
Talk to Legolas via the shortcut in the wall
You can get Hadhod's hammer if Evil Mode is not used for his strongest weapon.
Talk to guard in the Armory
Fight the first set of enemies at the front wall (3-4 fights)
Fight the second set of enemies at the Broken Wall
END HELM'S DEEP

Osgilliath:
Kill the few fights or orcs and defeat the orc leader (from the movie with 1 usable hand)
Only fight the orcs in the first area that can't be skipped
In the next area, fight 2 battles then again against the orc leader
Head to the door to enter the walls
Beat 2 Nazgul on wings, 3 if you want Hadhods weapon IIRC (they can be annoying without Idrial, unless you gave the stones to Eadoen for his drain HP skill)
Head down the stairs towards the sewers.
Follow the path to the big circulair area and fight the cave trolls.
Take the middle path (not sure) of all the possible routes
Head left and exit the sewers
With King fight
(you have a few Idrial solo fights while in the sewers)
END OSGILLIATH

Minas Tirith:
Kill all orcs at the entrance to make Gandalf appear
head in the next area and follow the path
Head up the stairs and go trough the next door
your party will be split up while you defend the walls
Follow the path up, fighting some orcs and humans along the way (and 1 Nazgul on wings)
Help Gandalf fight the Witch King
Enter the throne room, kill the orc at the throne
END MINAS TIRITH

Pelennor Fields (is like a bloody maze o.o )
follow the route, fighting humans and Elephaunts till you find the witch king
Aid Eowyn with the fight against the Witch King
Kill a few more baddies till you have a double fight.
Kill the first set of 4 Nazgul
Kill the second set of 4 Nazgul
Exit the field to battle the Eye of Sauron
END GAME

Team after Hadhod joins: Berethor/Idrial/Hadhod
Team after Eadoen joins: Berethor/Idrial or Eadoen/Hadhod (Eadoen being the replcament when Idrial is temporary gone)

Morwen sucks, she misses a lot of hits

Toughest battles:
Witch King (if Berethor doesn't have the anti-fear ability)
Balrog (without Evil Mode items and without Aura of the Valor -> the reviving spell when character dies)
Human soldiers in Minas Tirith and Pellenor Fields can be a pain in the ass when they put sleep on your character

Maybe get Berethors "stand ..." ability for against the Elephaunt stunning attack.

And watch out!!! Even though it is rare, a group of Nazgul can appear at ANY map!!!


Thanks for the route!
ForteGS
2008-10-06 12:19:45 pm
Bring me the flaming voodoo canonball!
Your welcome ^_^

I would have done a run myself (XBOX version), but I don't have a recording device nor do I have the money to buy one (And I am too lazy to find a temp job)
ForteGS
2008-10-10 01:45:54 pm
Bring me the flaming voodoo canonball!
Any progress Otaku?
Otaku
2008-10-10 02:38:47 pm
The anime loving gamer!
Quote from ForteGS:
Any progress Otaku?


No, I've been busy with my TimeSplitters 2 run, which I'm trying to get mailed. Sorry, to break it to you, but I may never do this run. It is very hard on my parents and myself. Check back sometime later and I'll let you know then.
Lazylen
2008-10-11 11:52:07 pm
fuck you i wont do what you tell me
i always lol'd at how you fought sauron's eye at the end of this game.  the idea is just so ludicrous that when I got to that battle i nearly died of laughter.
Norrec
2008-12-02 06:33:07 am
How far are you with the run atm?
Otaku
2008-12-03 08:13:03 am
The anime loving gamer!
Quote from Medeon:
How far are you with the run atm?


Sorry, but this is an abandoned project. I forgot to mention that.
atwyatt
atwyatt
Edit history:
atwyatt: 2009-03-21 03:31:12 am
2009-03-12 02:48:49 am
Quote from Otaku:
Hi everyone one SDA. I was considering doing a LotR:  the 3rd Age speed run with new game plus. I would accomplish this by starting a new game, then transferring all treasure from Evil Mode to the file. Since the file would have to be started, THEN altered, would that be a violation of the rules?  Undecided

Anyway, I plan to explore the correct routes to go as well as set Idrial to learn Aura of the Valar as soon as possible.

If anyone has encouragement, discouragement, questions, or additions, they would be very much appreciated! Grin


Wow, I can't believe I missed this thread.

Yeah, I'm sure transferring evil mode winnings to the regular file is fine for new game plus, since that's how the game works.

I've been thinking about how to speedrun this game for a while.  I've done it a number of times up to a certain point (without the evil mode items,) but then my characters would end up being so low on constitution that I needed to change the strategy.

Without having the sword of Isildur (from evil mode Osgiliath,) I was relying mainly on well-timed use of the Perfect Mode to get through the earlier battles quickly.

But other than that, some recent finds for speed runs I've found are:

1) learning Wheel of Fire from the Shadowcraft Elfstone, at the beginning of East Emnet Gullies.  That will get the player through every battle in that area in basically 1 turn.  (Those enemies are particularly susceptible to fire.)  And it works great in the later multi-enemy battles too.

2) using the Polished Elfstone of Spirit Enhancement (Osgiliath) to dramatically increase the damage of Wheel of Fire.  Using those 2 together, almost all regular battles will be done in *1* turn.  Smiley  (For instance, in a recent run, Idrial's been doing ~10,000-13,000 points per cast with that, per enemy.  Smiley  So on a speed run probably ~8,000-10,000.)

Also, when learning Wheel of Fire in East Emnet Gullies, I would select a skill (all the left-hand ones) upon entering the area, then I would go to the next battle, and when 1 enemy was left, I would cast Dispel (or Whip of the Master maybe,) until the next skill was learned.  And then finish the battle.  Once the battle was over, I would select the next skill on the tree, and I would do the same in the next battle.  So it's a nice organized way of learning Wheel of Fire.

3) ** Also, a good technique, if you want to level up your characters quickly to make it easier...  I've been doing another Idrial-only run, and a great place to level up characters (probably the best place in the game) is the East Emnet Gullies Plateau.  The main technique there is occasionally (maybe once out of 10-12 battles or so,) you get a battle with 3 Ringwraiths, and they can give from 100,000 to 150,000 experience points for 1 battle.  ^^  Smiley  So it's very easy to level up there.

So the player could exploit luck and keep starting over and saving there to get a few Ringwraith battles in a row.  Smiley  That could give the character 10 easy levels in not much time at all.  Smiley  It may not be necessary, but those extra stat points could come in handy in some places like Helm's Deep.  In my most recent Idrial-only run, I've leveled her up there to level 90, while still having just picked up Morwen, so it's really easy there.

Other than that, my speed run strategy for the Balrog has been, all regular characters get K.O.ed on the first turn by the Balrog (low hit points,) and Gandalf finishes him up by himself, and maybe keeps Idrial around for healing.  (Although that makes it take longer.)

Anyways, this game would be tough to speed run in under 9 hours (maybe more like 13-14,) but maybe there are some new finds to make it possible.

EDIT:

Holy crap!  The Ancient Elfstones work wonders for speed running.  I didn't think a "true" speed run (of this game) would've been possible, but with those, it would definitely be.  (Although sub-9 hours would be tough.)

The Ancient Elfstone of Spirit Enhancement works wonders.  I combined it with Wheel of Fire, and each cast was doing 30,000-40,000 points of damage, per enemy.  So almost every regular battle (non-boss) up until the trolls in Pelenor Fields was done in *1* turn.  Smiley  Also, Grima took 2 turns.  XD

My Idrial was leveled up considerably (Lvl 90, because it was on a different run,) but it would probably still do at least 10,000-13,000+ points of damage per normal enemy on a speed run.  Smiley  I have to wonder if it would be fastest to have 3+ characters learn Wheel of Fire (and if multiple Ancient Elfstones of Spirit Enhancement can be included on a single file,) because that would eliminate almost all enemy turns.  Smiley  And it would quicken the Mumakil battles considerably.  Smiley  (She was doing ~16,000 points of damage on them, with ~5,000 residual per turn, which still made for a long battle.)