Longest game to speedrun?

2005-09-22 04:06:54 pm

ouch!

ha ha ha!

can you save the game... because i know on 24h Lemans for Dreamcast (again best racing game for Dreamcast!) you can't save during the 24 race, so you have to pause it and leave the console on or else race for 24 hours... although you can swap and have the AI drive for you, but i wouldn't rely on them Tongue

I always wanted to have a 24h race like where me and my girlfriend would race for 24 hours strait and we would switch every 4 hours. so we would race 4 hours strait then sleep 4 hours strait and maybe go against another couple, that would be kinda fuN!

Holy_Moly

2005-09-22 04:36:44 pm

Quote:

ha ha ha!

can you save the game... because i know on 24h Lemans for Dreamcast (again best racing game for Dreamcast!) you can't save during the 24 race, so you have to pause it and leave the console on or else race for 24 hours... although you can swap and have the AI drive for you, but i wouldn't rely on them Tongue

I always wanted to have a 24h race like where me and my girlfriend would race for 24 hours strait and we would switch every 4 hours. so we would race 4 hours strait then sleep 4 hours strait and maybe go against another couple, that would be kinda fuN!

You cant save during a race in gt4, but can let the com dirve for you, in triple speed. But the com driver is just crap.

Kibbo

2005-09-22 04:45:12 pm

TIOLET!

Going for a max level and 100% quests done in Dungeon siege 1. The max level is 150 and after level 90 it's almost impossible to level. I tried once on a special map made for power leveling (really screwed stats on the enemies), after level 90 I had to run through that level about 5+ times for each level which is about 3 hours of playing. Now take into consideration that this level was made for leveling only, you level about 5 times faster than in the normal maps and for each level it will take even longer. I figure you could very well be stuck for 6 months (or more) even if you played a little every day.

alexpenev

2005-09-22 05:16:12 pm

The most fun thing out of that game for me was fiddling around with my equipment every time I came across a new shop.

Perhaps you could raise a team of archers (because archers seem to have an easy time in almost any battle) and use a map where infinite enemies just come at you all the time. Archers will pick 'em all off fairly quickly and hopefully not get damaged much. Then go to bed and wake up in the morning to check up on things? Wink

Kibbo

2005-09-22 05:52:18 pm

TIOLET!

It doesn't really matter, we are still talking about 10+ hours for each level (and that time is raised for every level you gain). You basically don't get any exp at all when you are above 90 from the standard enemies, your arrows make minced meat out of them and you get like 0.00001% exp needed for next level. After reaching level 105 on the leveling map I ran through the multiplayer campaign on hard on my own, I gained about 50% to lvl 106 from the entire main quest Grin

alexpenev

2005-09-23 03:15:41 am

Moral of the story: Microsoft games = broken.

Pweisger

2005-09-23 08:40:49 am

PwNzRd!

Playing every game of FreeCell. All 1,000,000 of them. I figure if you were a God and could complete each one the first time in five minutes, I estimate a good 10 year speedrun. Hell, if you could fit that into a 100 TB file I would download and watch it.

DK64_MASTER

2005-09-23 08:51:18 am

Heh, get the TAS people to do that. They should be able to beat a game in 30 seconds. And the file is just a sequence of button presses, even in 10 years, won't amount to 100TB (I hope).

alexpenev

Edit history:

alexpenev: 2005-09-24 07:09:53 am

2005-09-23 11:58:31 am

Quote:

Playing every game of FreeCell. All 1,000,000 of them.

Is each and every game actually possible to be solved, or are the numbers just used as a seed for the RNG (i.e. the games may not have all been tested for solvability)?

DTaeKim

2005-09-24 12:04:48 am

According to GameFAQs, there are eight impossible games on the Windows XP version. They are 11982, 146692, 186216, 455889, 495505, 512118, 517776, and 781948.

Pweisger

2005-09-24 07:58:40 am

PwNzRd!

Now who took the time to figure THAT out, I wonder?

DK64_MASTER

Edit history:

DK64_MASTER: 2005-09-24 08:11:35 am

2005-09-24 08:08:10 am

Heh, probably a computer...

I mean there must be a logical way of sorting the puzzles by game number? My guess is a simple hash function. I'm sure someone knows which games are unsolvable (probably determined by the position of the aces), and after you figure out the hash function, its a matter of simple math/guess-n-check.

Also, I'm sure there's an efficient algorithm to the game. Then you program the computer to solve each game (using alpha beta pruning) and you can solve each game in probably in a few mins. Run the prog on multiple computers, and you can solve every single game in a matter of years ;D.

Edit: Found a very intersting read here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freecell

Quote:

While there are actually 52!, or approximately 8.06x1067, possible games, the original Microsoft package includes 32,000, generated by a 15-bit random number seed. These games are known as the "Microsoft 32,000". Later versions of Microsoft FreeCell include more games, of which the original 32,000 are a subset.

The original Help file remains through modern Microsoft versions: "It is believed (although not proven) that every game is winnable." This was known at the time to be untrue in its strictest sense. Games numbered -1 and -2 were included as a kind of easter egg to demonstrate that there were some possible card combinations that clearly could not be won. Nevertheless it started a flurry of interest in the question of whether all of the Microsoft 32,000 could be beat. Smart players could win most games most of the time, but that wasn’t proof either way.

The Internet FreeCell Project by Dave Ring, which was finished in October 1995, took on the problem. Ring assigned 100 consecutive games chunks across volunteering human solvers and collected the games that they reported to be unsolvable, and assigned them to other people. This elegant project used the power of multiprocessing, where the processors were human brains, to quickly converge on the answer. Only one game defied every human player's attempt, the famous game number 11,982.

In later implementations of Freecell in Microsoft Windows, there are 1,000,000 games. Of these 1,000,000 games, 8 have been found to be unsolvable. They are games No. 11,982, No. 146,692, No. 186,216, No. 455,889, No. 495,505, No. 512,118, No. 517,776, and No. 781,948.

One way to "win" at any Microsoft Freecell game was added as a way to help the original software testers; push Ctrl-Shift-F10 at any time during the game. Click Abort to win, Retry to lose, or Ignore to cancel. Double-click any card for the results. Unfortunately this doesn't actually solve the game, it just throws the cards into electronic piles without regard for the rules.

And solvers have been written:

Quote:

One of the passions of several FreeCell enthusiasts was to construct computer programs that could automatically solve FreeCell. Don Woods wrote a solver for FreeCell and several similar games as early as 1997. This solver was later enhanced by Wilson Callan and Adrian Ettlinger and was incorporated into their Freecell Pro software.

Another known solver is Patsolve of Tom Holroyd. Patsolve uses atomic moves, and since version 3.0 incorporated a weighting function based on the results of a genetic algorithm that made it much faster.

Shlomi Fish started his own solver starting of March 2000. This solver was simply dubbed Freecell Solver. This solver is unique because it can use meta-moves, groups of moves that aim to achieve a certain end. The most comprehensive list of solvers that is known, contains links to other solvers. A note which is in order is that new solvers are constantly written as part of assignments or projects of some university courses.

Heh, probably a computer...

I mean there must be a logical way of sorting the puzzles by game number?  My guess is a simple hash function.  I'm sure someone knows which games are unsolvable (probably determined by the position of the aces), and after you figure out the hash function, its a matter of simple math/guess-n-check.

Also, I'm sure there's an efficient algorithm to the game.  Then you program the computer to solve each game (using alpha beta pruning) and you can solve each game in probably in a few mins.  Run the prog on multiple computers, and you can solve every single game in a matter of years  ;D.

Edit:  Found a very intersting read here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freecell
[quote]While there are actually 52!, or approximately 8.06x1067, possible games, the original Microsoft package includes 32,000, generated by a 15-bit random number seed. These games are known as the "Microsoft 32,000". Later versions of Microsoft FreeCell include more games, of which the original 32,000 are a subset.

The original Help file remains through modern Microsoft versions: "It is believed (although not proven) that every game is winnable." This was known at the time to be untrue in its strictest sense. Games numbered -1 and -2 were included as a kind of easter egg to demonstrate that there were some possible card combinations that clearly could not be won. Nevertheless it started a flurry of interest in the question of whether all of the Microsoft 32,000 could be beat. Smart players could win most games most of the time, but that wasn’t proof either way.

The Internet FreeCell Project by Dave Ring, which was finished in October 1995, took on the problem. Ring assigned 100 consecutive games chunks across volunteering human solvers and collected the games that they reported to be unsolvable, and assigned them to other people. This elegant project used the power of multiprocessing, where the processors were human brains, to quickly converge on the answer. Only one game defied every human player's attempt, the famous game number 11,982.

In later implementations of Freecell in Microsoft Windows, there are 1,000,000 games. Of these 1,000,000 games, 8 have been found to be unsolvable. They are games No. 11,982, No. 146,692, No. 186,216, No. 455,889, No. 495,505, No. 512,118, No. 517,776, and No. 781,948.

One way to "win" at any Microsoft Freecell game was added as a way to help the original software testers; push Ctrl-Shift-F10 at any time during the game. Click Abort to win, Retry to lose, or Ignore to cancel. Double-click any card for the results. Unfortunately this doesn't actually solve the game, it just throws the cards into electronic piles without regard for the rules.
[/quote]

And solvers have been written:

[quote]One of the passions of several FreeCell enthusiasts was to construct computer programs that could automatically solve FreeCell. Don Woods wrote a solver for FreeCell and several similar games as early as 1997. This solver was later enhanced by Wilson Callan and Adrian Ettlinger and was incorporated into their Freecell Pro software.

Another known solver is Patsolve of Tom Holroyd. Patsolve uses atomic moves, and since version 3.0 incorporated a weighting function based on the results of a genetic algorithm that made it much faster.

Shlomi Fish started his own solver starting of March 2000. This solver was simply dubbed Freecell Solver. This solver is unique because it can use meta-moves, groups of moves that aim to achieve a certain end. The most comprehensive list of solvers that is known, contains links to other solvers. A note which is in order is that new solvers are constantly written as part of assignments or projects of some university courses.

[/quote]

Pweisger

2005-09-25 07:12:40 am

PwNzRd!

I never thought so much... thought went into Frecell.

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2005-09-27 12:47:21 am

2005-09-27 12:35:43 am

Zelda Scientist®

I'll beat all of you hands down. Single segment 100% Animal crossing. The seasons and crap alone in a SS(no time changes O_O) mean that it would take at least a year. lol.

IDK if freecell counts since each time you beat it is a game, even though there are a set number of variations.

Pweisger

2005-09-27 06:22:30 am

PwNzRd!

I could speedrun taking a crap better than a speedrun of Animal Crossing.

StrangenessDSS

2005-09-27 06:29:58 am

Sleeping Terror

Quote:

I'll beat all of you hands down. Single segment 100% Animal crossing. The seasons and crap alone in a SS(no time changes O_O) mean that it would take at least a year. lol.

You win.

Riiflaza

2012-12-28 11:00:48 pm

Sorry to Say something on such an old topic, but is Paper Mario Sticker Star 100% going to be longer?

zewing

2012-12-28 11:38:19 pm

just( •_•)>⌐■-■ ..... (⌐■_■)wing it

I don't really know the true answer to that but the game is still being routed.

http://papermariorta.wikia.com/wiki/Paper_Mario_RTA_Wiki

This has current rta info about sticker star and it doesn't appear 100% has been clearly defined. The only answer is to wait and see someone do optimized speedruns of any% to get a rough guess on what 100% may take.

X

2012-12-29 07:13:00 am

destroy them with lazers

Quote from Riiflaza:

Sorry to Say something on such an old topic, but is Paper Mario Sticker Star 100% going to be longer?

You would be surprised how much speed run times can change over the years. People where saying DK64 was one of the longer games on page one of this thread. Tongue

xArcelite

2013-01-13 12:08:23 am

J(RPG)/FG Fanatic

Star Ocean 4: Ultimate Trophy (Beat Chaos Mode, 100% Battle Trophies)
Or... Legend of Heroes: Sora no Kiseki trilogy (All beaten Nightmare)
I'd say these last around ~300-650 hours.

DarkBluesZX

2013-01-13 10:28:52 am

Sounds like Maverick talk to me.

something long eh?

.Hack//G.U. Vol 3 Redemption
Try speedrunning such a fast paced game with sooo much to clear through.

Bismuth

2013-01-14 08:55:03 am

Worthless categories WR master

yeah I can't believe DK64 used to be 13 hours in 2005. Hell, I swear I had 12:30 before 2005!

Lomelli

2013-01-16 01:10:05 am

Piece of cake!

Phantasy star online episode 1 & 2. The goal? starting a new save and beating ultimate mode.

DarkBluesZX

2013-01-16 11:13:47 am

Sounds like Maverick talk to me.

You can always go about trying out Resonance of fate or end of eternity for the japanese. The games chapters itself are around 7 hours but are still able to speedrun.

MAS8705

2013-01-16 12:45:28 pm

SDA Apprentice -- (3-1)

Would it be wrong to say something in regards of Persona 4?