Live-A-Live (Snes)

2010-02-23 02:44:19 pm

Yo, long time lurker/run watcher first time poster, it seems.

Anyway this game is pretty obscure, but it's one of my favorites. I've been wanting to run it but got irritated with Pogo's chapter (was to be my third through Huh?

segments) and dropped it. I've been thinking about it again recently and decided to pop in to see if there was anyone else interested in it here at SDA.

I've got my first two segments (all of Sundown's chapter, and the whole Kung-Fu chapter respectively) more or less layed out, with a couple things I'm unsure about being optimum (mostly which pupil to take in Kung-Fu, I went with Lei, but Sammo is potentially an option as well. I'll have to end up doing a full run where I switched up which I took in the chapter to see which is actually better probably) and whether or not +10 vitality from the frying pan acessory in Sundown's chapter is worth anything/enough to warrant not using it as a trap to save the couple extra rounds of attacking in the chapter's final boss.

I know a lot of neat tricks/timesavers (causing Liquid Human W1 in Akira's chapter to self destruct 100% of the time for example) in other chapter's as well but I haven't gone about test-running through them to set up actual routes, and I've lost the times for the first two segments I had saved somewhere so I can't give those at the moment either. Either way any interest and/or tricks(or possibly even skips, though I don't think there are any real skips.) are welcome.

Edit:I also forgot to mention I don't have an original cartridge for the moment so until I got a hold of one it'd be planning, and some youtube posted videos of the run on an emulator.

Thread title:

Yo, long time lurker/run watcher first time poster, it seems.

Anyway this game is pretty obscure, but it's one of my favorites. I've been wanting to run it but got irritated with Pogo's chapter (was to be my third through ??? segments) and dropped it. I've been thinking about it again recently and decided to pop in to see if there was anyone else interested in it here at SDA.

I've got my first two segments (all of Sundown's chapter, and the whole Kung-Fu chapter respectively) more or less layed out, with a couple things I'm unsure about being optimum (mostly which pupil to take in Kung-Fu, I went with Lei, but Sammo is potentially an option as well. I'll have to end up doing a full run where I switched up which I took in the chapter to see which is actually better probably) and whether or not +10 vitality from the frying pan acessory in Sundown's chapter is worth anything/enough to warrant not using it as a trap to save the couple extra rounds of attacking in the chapter's final boss.

I know a lot of neat tricks/timesavers (causing Liquid Human W1 in Akira's chapter to self destruct 100% of the time for example) in other chapter's as well but I haven't gone about test-running through them to set up actual routes, and I've lost the times for the first two segments I had saved somewhere so I can't give those at the moment either. Either way any interest and/or tricks(or possibly even skips, though I don't think there are any real skips.) are welcome.

Edit:I also forgot to mention I don't have an original cartridge for the moment so until I got a hold of one it'd be planning, and some youtube posted videos of the run on an emulator.

AniMeowzerz

2010-02-23 04:24:28 pm

I actually would be VERY interested in this. I only played through all but one of the chapters fully, but I very much enjoyed what I played. You've at least got one person backing you up on this Smiley

Best of luck, I'll be lurking Tongue

Josh the Funkdoc

Edit history:

Josh the Funkdoc: 2010-02-28 02:34:18 pm

2010-02-23 06:27:27 pm

spread the dirt to the populace

Someone is working on a full-game TAS of this and posting each chapter on Nicovideo (with subtitles in Japanese) after he finishes it. Here's what he's got so far:

Oboro in 19:05: Click Here

Akira in 36:58: Part 1 Part 2

Pogo in 38:58: Part 1 Part 2

Sundown in 23:52: Click Here

Sundown in 22:46: Click Here

Masara in 9:41: Click Here

There's also a TAS of the Kung-Fu chapter done by a different guy, here it is if you're interested: Part 1 Part 2

Not sure how much this stuff will help you given how ridiculous RPG TASes tend to be, but there's bound to be something good in there.

Good luck!

EDIT: Just out of curiosity, who do you see yourself using in the final chapter? I remember Oboro & Sundown being 10x better than everyone else, but it was years ago when I played this...

Someone is working on a full-game TAS of this and posting each chapter on Nicovideo (with subtitles in Japanese) after he finishes it.  Here's what he's got so far:

[b]Oboro in 19:05:[/b] [url=http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9617516]Click Here[/url]

[b]Akira in 36:58:[/b] [url=http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9670983]Part 1[/url]  [url=http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9671078]Part 2[/url]

[b]Pogo in 38:58:[/b] [url=http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9760223]Part 1[/url]  [url=http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9760418]Part 2[/url]

[s][b]Sundown in 23:52:[/b] [url=http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9803985]Click Here[/url][/s]

[b]Sundown in 22:46:[/b] [url=http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9860786]Click Here[/url]

[b]Masara in 9:41:[/b] [url=http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9860907]Click Here[/url]

There's also a TAS of the Kung-Fu chapter done by a different guy, here it is if you're interested: [url=http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9615790]Part 1[/url]  [url=http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9616043]Part 2[/url]

Not sure how much this stuff will help you given how ridiculous RPG TASes tend to be, but there's bound to be something good in there.

Good luck!

EDIT: Just out of curiosity, who do you see yourself using in the final chapter?  I remember Oboro & Sundown being 10x better than everyone else, but it was years ago when I played this...

Blackbird

2010-02-23 08:31:01 pm

I'm really surprised that

A) There isn't a speedrun of this already.

B) This game hasn't been localized yet in the states.

hikaratu

2010-02-24 01:17:48 am

The plan in the final chapter partywise is probably going to be something along the lines of Sundown(a must), cube (I don't ussually take him but given that I want to avoid grinding his heals/status removal/buffing will be a must too) Lei or Sammo, whichever I end up taking as they have good techs and stats, and the last is up for grabs I'll have to test around but if I had to guess I'd say it'l end up being pogo. Oboro isn't really a good option without grinding and I'll be skipping alot of the fighting in his chapter so he comes into the final chapter as underwhelming.

@Josh I'll take a look at those, even if I don't learn any new tricks it will be nice to see how he does the route and have something to measure against even though i'll obviously not be outrunning it Grin

Good to know a few people know and enjoy the game besides myself ^^

mocliamtoh

2010-02-24 01:13:45 pm

My name is unpronounceable

I think that sounds like a good party for the final chapter. I don't know if I'm the only one, but I always took Sunset (I played on the older translation) and never really used his hurricane shot. I always opted for his quad shot instead. I always got annoyed when he got turned around before he could get his hurricane shot off.

For the kung-fu chapter, what are the potential advantages of going for Sammo? Having never gone through the final chapter with anyone other than Yun, I don't know how effective their later moves are. I'd think though, that Lei would be a better choice, at least for the chapter itself, because you can take her through the whole dojo instead of having to go through half of it before getting Sammo.

In the final chapter, I'm assuming you're going to get Sunset's ultimate weapon, what about some of the others? Cube's might be a possibility, and maybe Masaru's. I can't remember what you have to do for Pogo's though ???. That brings up another point though, you are going for the best ending right?

I think that sounds like a good party for the final chapter.  I don't know if I'm the only one, but I always took Sunset (I played on the older translation) and never really used his hurricane shot.  I always opted for his quad shot instead.  I always got annoyed when he got turned around before he could get his hurricane shot off.

For the kung-fu chapter, what are the potential advantages of going for Sammo?  Having never gone through the final chapter with anyone other than Yun, I don't know how effective their later moves are.  I'd think though, that Lei would be a better choice, at least for the chapter itself, because you can take her through the whole dojo instead of having to go through half of it before getting Sammo.

In the final chapter, I'm assuming you're going to get Sunset's ultimate weapon, what about some of the others?  Cube's might be a possibility, and maybe Masaru's.  I can't remember what you have to do for Pogo's though ???.  That brings up another point though, you are going for the best ending right?

hikaratu

2010-02-24 03:16:56 pm

I was planning for going the good ending, rather than best ending. But I could do best ending too if people would prefer since it doesn't take THAT much longer. And yea Sundown is pretty much the best character in the game hurricane shot or no.

As far as the ultimate weapons I'll be grabbing Sunsets, Lei/Sammos(You only need one tech to get every treasure in the dungeon and it isn't Senganzaken ;D), Possibly cubes as well, and I'm going to look into getting Pogos if I take him to final chapter though I'm not sure whether or not I will be able to in a timely manner. I probably COULD get Masaru's but he's absolutely terrible so I don't see myself doing that, unless it comes out that's he ends up being really good in the final chapter at lowish level.

The advantages of taking Sammo is that he's vastly harder to kill compared to Lei, especially in the final chapter due to point two for taking him. He can equip much better gear, the testing is pretty much all whether or not it's feasable to get some of that better gear for him. I forgot how late he decides to show up to help in the last bit of Kung-Fu though so that might scratch him off the list entirely.

Now that I'm thinking about equipment, anyone know if any of the robot accesories from Akira's chapter will help alot in the final chapter for Cube? I haven't done alot of testing on this front (mostly because I prefer to not put cube in my normal playthrough parties.)

I was planning for going the good ending, rather than best ending. But I could do best ending too if people would prefer since it doesn't take THAT much longer. And yea Sundown is pretty much the best character in the game hurricane shot or no.

As far as the ultimate weapons I'll be grabbing Sunsets, Lei/Sammos(You only need one tech to get every treasure in the dungeon and it isn't Senganzaken  ;D), Possibly cubes as well, and I'm going to look into getting Pogos if I take him to final chapter though I'm not sure whether or not I will be able to in a timely manner. I probably COULD get Masaru's but he's absolutely terrible so I don't see myself doing that, unless it comes out that's he ends up being really good in the final chapter at lowish level.

The advantages of taking Sammo is that he's vastly harder to kill compared to Lei, especially in the final chapter due to point two for taking him. He can equip much better gear, the testing is pretty much all whether or not it's feasable to get some of that better gear for him. I forgot how late he decides to show up to help in the last bit of Kung-Fu though so that might scratch him off the list entirely.

Now that I'm thinking about equipment, anyone know if any of the robot accesories from Akira's chapter will help alot in the final chapter for Cube? I haven't done alot of testing on this front (mostly because I prefer to not put cube in my normal playthrough parties.)

Josh the Funkdoc

Edit history:

Josh the Funkdoc: 2010-02-24 03:31:47 pm

2010-02-24 03:21:12 pm

spread the dirt to the populace

In Pogo's chapter, do you see yourself going for the Cola Bottle? It sounds crazy from what I can tell, and it would be another reason to pick him up in the final chapter. Would probably take a ton of attempts, but that's why you segment it...

Of course, I have no idea whether it's feasible to beat the mammoth without grinding!

EDIT: I forgot you can equip 5 accessories, so you'll get the King's Fang out of that too! The Basic Rock is in the same area as well IIRC...this is sounding too good to pass up.

hikaratu

2010-02-24 03:45:35 pm

The problem is that you cant beat the mammoth without grinding(Unless some stars I'm unaware of align), the basic rock is unneccisary for anything particularly either and the stats arent worth the time it takes to grab it. Most of the final chapters non-optional bosses are immune to the Cola Bottle too. I did consider it but I can't wrap my head around a way to make it save time rather than cost it, If someone finds a magic way to actually beat King Mammoth without grinding I'm all ears though, as the Cola Bottle might work on some of the optional bosses which could make things a bit easier, plus King Fang for Sundown would be tasty.

getter77

2010-02-24 07:06:09 pm

100% runs=great to watch

One or more runs of this knocking out the various endings, with a commentary audio stream, would be made of so much win. (Since it isn't like the fantrans would be SDA kosher)

I wish the best of luck in managing any manner of awesome run regardless. 8)

Josh the Funkdoc

2010-02-24 07:07:58 pm

spread the dirt to the populace

Well, I just checked the Pogo TAS, and he does in fact fight the mammoth. It seemed to rely entirely on Pogo's paralysis attack, though, so I don't know if you could pull that off.

Also, he beats the final boss in 4 moves: Gori's level-down attack -> Bel's singing, repeat.

And as for a couple other things you asked about:

- The Sundown TAS uses the frying pan as a trap. I think it's safe to say that's the way to go, since you're segmented.

- The kung-fu TAS chooses Lei, but trains Yun in the first session. Why the latter part, I have no idea - we should wait for the full-game guy to get to that chapter before deciding what to do there.

hikaratu

2010-02-25 03:06:08 am

I think he just does the first three rounds on yun because he's so easy to gib and it saves a few seconds since he doesn't need the extra stats/levels on Lei that he doesn't get from the other sessions. I could be wrong but I'm like 80% sure this is it, and like 99% if it's the equivilent to an "individual level" sort of TAS.

Yea, pogos paralyze isn't that reliable from my experience so I dunno if that would be feasable in a non-TAS for the mammoth. I will give it a try anyway though and see if it manages to work out, if it works out to work at least half the time it may be worth doing a segment to do mammoth and hope it works out in my favor, and ALSO hope the cola bottle drops(boy do I hate hoping). As far as the final boss thing, my plan was more or less the same, I wonder if I can manage four turns too with it though.

mocliamtoh

2010-02-25 04:07:52 pm

My name is unpronounceable

Quote from hikaratu:

I was planning for going the good ending, rather than best ending. But I could do best ending too if people would prefer since it doesn't take THAT much longer. And yea Sundown is pretty much the best character in the game hurricane shot or no.

I was just wondering because if you did go for the best ending, you'd likely need to level up Masaru. Just focus on getting the individual chapters done first.

Quote from hikaratu:

Now that I'm thinking about equipment, anyone know if any of the robot accesories from Akira's chapter will help alot in the final chapter for Cube? I haven't done alot of testing on this front (mostly because I prefer to not put cube in my normal playthrough parties.)

When I played through, I don't think they were very useful. However, they are easily worth looking into, seeing as how you'll only want to pick up your four party members.

Josh the Funkdoc

2010-02-27 12:32:39 pm

spread the dirt to the populace

Well, this won't be of much use to you, but I figured I'd link it anyway for fun:

Oboro "100 Kills" TAS: Part 1, Part 2, Part 3

hikaratu

2010-02-28 02:17:22 am

All the TAS are especially nice, as the more battles I see the better I see how to manipulate enemy AI for movement/facing and such, even if they aren't relevant otherwise xP

Josh the Funkdoc

Edit history:

Josh the Funkdoc: 2010-02-28 02:37:19 pm

2010-02-28 02:28:47 pm

spread the dirt to the populace

Well, we've got a couple more segments of the full-game TAS to add now! I edited my post back on page 1 with the list.

The new Sundown TAS seems to involve some optimization re: time of day, and he skips two of the traps now. Also, dunno if he did this before but he equips the Peacemaker on Mad Dog.

Masara...yeah, not much more to add really. I was actually kinda intrigued by him for the final chapter, only because you can learn his "ultimate" tech right off the bat, but it must not be worth it.

hikaratu

2010-02-28 07:18:46 pm

his ultimate tech is pretty much his worst tech even, if odio didn't cancel ray stuff all the time it might be nice on the very last fight... but he does. Tch, he made a pretty nice improvement on the new Sundown chapter, Now I have to study this for ahwhile.

As a side note I tried for hours yesterday to get a mammoth fight in pogo's chapter to work out, as I suspected the paralyze just really isn't reliable enough without save-states to manipulate it >.o