Lemmings

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StrangenessDSS: 2005-11-21 02:17:11 am

2005-09-09 04:32:05 am

I was just sitting here going through my old games, and i got to thinking, what would it be like speed running lemmings? The origional version that is. Some levels are pretty hard to speedrun, but i can think of a few that would make some pretty good runs. Has anyone tried this yet? Or would it not make any sence to do it. What do you think?

Thread title:

spineshark

2005-09-09 04:33:58 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

Dude, that would be pretty cool. However, since you don't *really*control the Lemmings...and the levels are already on tight time constraints...

A couple levels were mad hard. I'd just like to see somebody do it.

Phauxe

Edit history:

Phauxe: 2005-09-09 05:00:50 am

2005-09-09 04:58:13 am

Wasn't there already a topic like this?

*goes and scours the boards

*comes back with a quote

This one was from the NES version of the lemmings... but yeah...

Quote:

Even if it were possible to run it, (it's not a game that really could be done) it would have to have different times for indivual levels, definitely not single segment; there are far too many mayhem levels that would kill any ss attempt. Off the top of my head, I can think of at least 3...the 2 "just a minute" levels and the one where you have 3 bashers where they get stuck in a tiny confined space and you need pure luck to beat it.

slYnki

2005-09-09 05:13:13 am

XXY

I remember lemmings for the PC, it was so oldschool, and it was such a fun game! Damn I would like to run this game.... but I don't even know where the game is anymore. I remember digging a hole, and suddenly my lemmings found their way into a pit of lava.... god that pissed me off.

This game is fairly hard too, but would be interesting to see run.

spineshark

2005-09-09 05:34:14 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

The whole game is pretty intense. You can't take (most) levels like a walk in the park. You need to get at it.

Every level would be pretty much the same-see how close you can get the lemmings to the exit without killing them. A couple levels feature different challenges (like keeping up with all the lemmings as the fall at max speed) but most of them...

Radix

Edit history:

Radix: 2005-09-09 05:52:34 am

2005-09-09 05:52:16 am

I'm addicted to games

Individual levels seems like a possibility ... but a lot of levels that are easy and would have a definite "this is the fastest time, no argument" would have to be listed as ---- player because it wouldn't be fair to credit it to whoever happens to record it first.

slYnki

2005-09-09 06:01:44 am

XXY

Well with the Dr. Mario break the targets for Melee, it says "achieved by many." Why not put that beside some of these possible records? That's my two cents Smiley

Face

2005-09-09 06:40:13 am

I'd definitely love to see this done.

StuporMan

2005-09-09 08:26:35 pm

Stupor is as Stupor Does

It would definitely be worth a watch, if just to see the game completed. Those levels that do not allow you to lose a single lemming are always fun. I remember finally reaching a level that I could not beat (PC), but I remeber this being one of the most addictive games I owned. It would be interesting seeing people come up with speed tricks on this game. The only one I can think of is to start the mass kill timer such that the last lemming enters the safe zone just before the rest explode.

As to individual level runs, there are HUNDREDS of levels at least on the PC game IIRC. This would make creating a table of all levels really insane. Also, I am actually not sure this game could be done under the 7 hour limit for all levels, just due to the fact that there are so many of them.

At any rate I can see several speed runners going insane from running this game. In other words, I thoroughly approve of someone attempting this run! I would watch it, but all the segments, the horror!

StuporMan

It would definitely be worth a watch, if just to see the game completed.  Those levels that do not allow you to lose a single lemming are always fun. I remember finally reaching a level that I could not beat (PC), but I remeber this being one of the most addictive games I owned. It would be interesting seeing people come up with speed tricks on this game. The only one I can think of is to start the mass kill timer such that the last lemming enters the safe zone just before the rest explode.

As to individual level runs, there are HUNDREDS of levels at least on the PC game IIRC. This would make creating a table of all levels really insane.  Also, I am actually not sure this game could be done under the 7 hour limit for all levels, just due to the fact that there are so many of them.

At any rate I can see several speed runners going insane from running this game. In other words, I thoroughly approve of someone attempting this run! I would watch it, but all the segments, the horror!

StuporMan

Watters

2005-09-09 09:03:54 pm

Well, I think the earlier levels, would be left out, jsut because there is really no challange, and almost everyone will have the same time. I think a good idea, if this was attempted, would be to just do the higher level ones, where you need all the lemmings, or actually need some skill to do a speed run.

But maybe there could be 4 single segment runs (or how ever many levels there are) for the easy levels, then the medium, then the hard, instead of an entire game single segment. A single one on the mayhem level, would actually be hard, and take skill, and wouldn't take 8 hours. That would be awsome, and uid definitly watch it.

Actually, im gonig to see how fast i can do it right now!

StuporMan

2005-09-12 01:16:48 pm

Stupor is as Stupor Does

Well I think I may have a trick that could be used in a run of lemmings. You can reset lemmings to standard lemmings by destroying the land directly beneath them. This could potentially be very useful on levels where you need to get 100% and blockers could be used and then reset. I remember there are several of the later levels in which this trick might be useful for timesaving.

StuporMan

CannibalBob

2005-11-21 02:04:02 am

A speedrun of lemmings wouldn't be that great. I mean, there's pretty much only one way to solve the levels and you're already on tight time constraints.

Still, it'd be great to just have each level solved and played at 3x the normal speed

Enhasa

2005-11-25 06:31:21 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

I was just sitting here going through my old games, and i got to thinking, what would it be like speed running lemmings? The origional version that is. Some levels are pretty hard to speedrun, but i can think of a few that would make some pretty good runs. Has anyone tried this yet? Or would it not make any sence to do it. What do you think?

The best analogy for how much sense this makes would probably be the StarCraft runs.

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Dude, that would be pretty cool. However, since you don't *really*control the Lemmings...and the levels are already on tight time constraints...

Some of the levels are on tight time constraints. And I don't see what "not really controlling" the lemmings has to do with anything. Do you feel left out because you're not "really controlling" the monkeys in Super Monkey Ball? How about if PCs hit or miss in an RPG? That would be more bothersome.

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Individual levels seems like a possibility ... but a lot of levels that are easy and would have a definite "this is the fastest time, no argument" would have to be listed as ---- player because it wouldn't be fair to credit it to whoever happens to record it first.

I don't think this would be a problem on all but a few levels out of 120.

Quote:

It would definitely be worth a watch, if just to see the game completed. Those levels that do not allow you to lose a single lemming are always fun. I remember finally reaching a level that I could not beat (PC), but I remeber this being one of the most addictive games I owned. It would be interesting seeing people come up with speed tricks on this game. The only one I can think of is to start the mass kill timer such that the last lemming enters the safe zone just before the rest explode.

As to individual level runs, there are HUNDREDS of levels at least on the PC game IIRC. This would make creating a table of all levels really insane. Also, I am actually not sure this game could be done under the 7 hour limit for all levels, just due to the fact that there are so many of them.

At any rate I can see several speed runners going insane from running this game. In other words, I thoroughly approve of someone attempting this run! I would watch it, but all the segments, the horror!

I agree that the number of levels is the most prohibitive factor. This would definitely be well under 7 hours. You'd get an average of 3.5 minutes per for 7 hours. Saving max lemmings is actually a challenge category that people used to do back in the day, along with least number of skills and speed of course. At least one of the expansion packs, like maybe a Christmas one, I think you could save all the lemmings on all levels. Oh, and about that trick: you can just hit escape whenever you've met the quota, so although your way would be sweeter, it wouldn't be necessary.

Quote:

Well I think I may have a trick that could be used in a run of lemmings. You can reset lemmings to standard lemmings by destroying the land directly beneath them. This could potentially be very useful on levels where you need to get 100% and blockers could be used and then reset. I remember there are several of the later levels in which this trick might be useful for timesaving.

That's just part of the game physics and I'm not sure it would save time anywhere because if you don't need 100%, then it wouldn't be worth rescuing the blocker. And if you need to, then it's probably already part of the solution.

Quote:

A speedrun of lemmings wouldn't be that great. I mean, there's pretty much only one way to solve the levels and you're already on tight time constraints.

You, sir, clearly have no idea what you're talking about, sorry.

[quote]I was just sitting here going through my old games, and i got to thinking, what would it be like speed running lemmings? The origional version that is. Some levels are pretty hard to speedrun, but i can think of a few that would make some pretty good runs. Has anyone tried this yet? Or would it not make any sence to do it. What do you think?[/quote]
The best analogy for how much sense this makes would probably be the StarCraft runs.

[quote]Dude, that would be pretty cool.  However, since you don't *really*control the Lemmings...and the levels are already on tight time constraints...[/quote]
[i]Some[/i] of the levels are on tight time constraints. And I don't see what "not really controlling" the lemmings has to do with anything. Do you feel left out because you're not "really controlling" the monkeys in Super Monkey Ball? How about if PCs hit or miss in an RPG? That would be more bothersome.

[quote]Individual levels seems like a possibility ... but a lot of levels that are easy and would have a definite "this is the fastest time, no argument" would have to be listed as ---- player because it wouldn't be fair to credit it to whoever happens to record it first.[/quote]
I don't think this would be a problem on all but a few levels out of 120.

[quote]It would definitely be worth a watch, if just to see the game completed.  Those levels that do not allow you to lose a single lemming are always fun. I remember finally reaching a level that I could not beat (PC), but I remeber this being one of the most addictive games I owned. It would be interesting seeing people come up with speed tricks on this game. The only one I can think of is to start the mass kill timer such that the last lemming enters the safe zone just before the rest explode.

As to individual level runs, there are HUNDREDS of levels at least on the PC game IIRC. This would make creating a table of all levels really insane.  Also, I am actually not sure this game could be done under the 7 hour limit for all levels, just due to the fact that there are so many of them.

At any rate I can see several speed runners going insane from running this game. In other words, I thoroughly approve of someone attempting this run! I would watch it, but all the segments, the horror![/quote]
I agree that the number of levels is the most prohibitive factor. This would definitely be well under 7 hours. You'd get an average of 3.5 minutes per for 7 hours. Saving max lemmings is actually a challenge category that people used to do back in the day, along with least number of skills and speed of course. At least one of the expansion packs, like maybe a Christmas one, I think you could save all the lemmings on all levels. Oh, and about that trick: you can just hit escape whenever you've met the quota, so although your way would be sweeter, it wouldn't be necessary.

[quote]Well I think I may have a trick that could be used in a run of lemmings. You can reset lemmings to standard lemmings by destroying the land directly beneath them.  This could potentially be very useful on levels where you need to get 100% and blockers could be used and then reset.  I remember there are several of the later levels in which this trick might be useful for timesaving.[/quote]
That's just part of the game physics and I'm not sure it would save time anywhere because if you don't need 100%, then it wouldn't be worth rescuing the blocker. And if you need to, then it's probably already part of the solution.

[quote]A speedrun of lemmings wouldn't be that great.  I mean, [b]there's pretty much only one way to solve the levels[/b] and you're already on tight time constraints.[/quote]
You, sir, clearly have no idea what you're talking about, sorry.

CannibalBob

2005-11-25 03:25:42 pm

on Nov 21st, 2005, 3:04am, CannibalBob wrote:
A speedrun of lemmings wouldn't be that great. I mean, there's pretty much only one way to solve the levels and you're already on tight time constraints.

You, sir, clearly have no idea what you're talking about, sorry.

What do you mean? You're right for the first group of levels, they're quite open but later on it's relatively linear.

Radioactive Jellyfish

2005-11-27 12:23:37 am

Isn't it cute?

OOOOH! I wish I had a copy! I'd love to run this! I'm great as these types of games!

HidoiMidoriRyuu

2005-11-27 11:32:54 pm

4NT

A Lemmings speedrun would be pretty interesting, yes. And if it wasn't for the fact that I am currently in the process of running a game I would look deeper into it. Although I think I might be able to help anyone attempting it.

idunno

2005-11-28 10:21:08 pm

If someone really could do something like the entire level on fast forward that would be amazing! Grin

Enhasa

2005-11-28 11:03:59 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

What do you mean? You're right for the first group of levels, they're quite open but later on it's relatively linear.

I know there are some levels where you have to use every last skill you start with. But really, most levels have at least significant variations. Some of them are completely different solutions, and some of them are subtle. For example, even the four "We All Fall Down" levels: you don't have to make every lemming a digger and you can speed it up if you don't do so. Even on the levels that involve traversing the entire screen, which you're probably thinking of, there are differences in the paths you can take.

Quote:

A Lemmings speedrun would be pretty interesting, yes. And if it wasn't for the fact that I am currently in the process of running a game I would look deeper into it. Although I think I might be able to help anyone attempting it.

With all those levels, Lemmings is pretty daunting to take on, especially for one person.

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If someone really could do something like the entire level on fast forward that would be amazing! Grin

I was actually thinking, Lemmings is one of a few games where a TAS would, without glitches, operate on a fundamentally different plane of existence than a speedrun. A TAS of say Lemmings 2 with fast forward on all the time would look mind-blowing.

[quote]What do you mean?  You're right for the first group of levels, they're quite open but later on it's relatively linear.[/quote]
I know there are some levels where you have to use every last skill you start with. But really, most levels have at least significant variations. Some of them are completely different solutions, and some of them are subtle. For example, even the four "We All Fall Down" levels: you don't have to make every lemming a digger and you can speed it up if you don't do so. Even on the levels that involve traversing the entire screen, which you're probably thinking of, there are differences in the paths you can take.

[quote]A Lemmings speedrun would be pretty interesting, yes. And if it wasn't for the fact that I am currently in the process of running a game I would look deeper into it. Although I think I might be able to help anyone attempting it.[/quote]
With all those levels, Lemmings is pretty daunting to take on, especially for one person.

[quote]If someone really could do something like the entire level on fast forward that would be amazing! ;D[/quote]
I was actually thinking, Lemmings is one of a few games where a TAS would, without glitches, operate on a [i]fundamentally[/i] different plane of existence than a speedrun. A TAS of say Lemmings 2 with fast forward on all the time would look mind-blowing.

slYnki

2005-11-29 04:07:24 am

XXY

I don't really know Lemmings all that well anymore, so this may seem like a terribly stupid question. Do you get new items to do new feats when you beat levels? Like, do you get new items if you complete a certain level?

I'm only asking this, because if it's possible to just start up a level with the neutral amount of items (just like the Descent runs), then that would make a fair playing ground for all, but would make an entertaining full game run too.

ReverendTed

2005-11-29 06:30:23 am

Quote:

Do you get new items to do new feats when you beat levels? Like, do you get new items if you complete a certain level?

As I recall, the available abilities you're given depend on the level. You're usually given just enough of each type to complete the level in the most obvious way.

slYnki

2005-11-29 06:43:19 am

XXY

Ah yes, it's all coming back to me now. I wish I could get my hand on a copy of this game now. I remember it pissed me right the fuck off when I was a kid, but it seems fun now for some reason. Maybe I've been playing too much Halo.....

Although, I don't know how anyone would record Lemmings runs, unless you found a way to run it through windows.

FuriKuri

2005-11-29 01:23:34 pm

Ride on shooting star

I remember some Lemmings Paintball game I had that ran in Windows also had Lemmings on it, although I don't know if they were the original games (I always assumed they were).

And I'm pretty sure there's also an SNES version of one of the games.

YautjaElder

2005-11-29 01:26:59 pm

Speed is the key.

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And I'm pretty sure there's also an SNES version of one of the games.

Yep, there´s a Lemmings for snes.

kwinse

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kwinse: 2005-11-29 03:48:17 pm

2005-11-29 03:47:35 pm

And what a fun game it is, with a fall height that doesn't allow you to skip certain levels like the PC version does <cough>We All Fall Down<cough cough>

Lag.Com

Edit history:

Lag.Com: 2005-11-29 05:15:23 pm

2005-11-29 05:13:53 pm

sda loyalist

Quote:

I remember some Lemmings Paintball game I had that ran in Windows also had Lemmings on it, although I don't know if they were the original games

I have it. It's "Lemmings for Windows", and they are all the original lemmings; I don't know if the mechanics are exactly the same, but I'd assume so.

Edit: I originally posted a link to DHTML Lemmings, but apparently it's been taken down for legal reasons. Psssshaw!