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Edit history:
TheMG2: 2015-10-25 12:08:29 am
TheMG2: 2015-10-24 10:27:53 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-24 07:48:38 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-24 07:47:09 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-24 06:51:08 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-24 06:27:02 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-24 05:44:18 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-24 01:55:05 pm
I am pretty much convinced now that clipping INTO walls would lead to nothing. The game generally doesn't let you move while inside collision (though as I mentioned above speed will remain the same).

What you would need is a way to increase your speed fast enough that the game thinks your next position should be on the other side of the wall like how I believe the lavaboard glitch works. You would probably need to use the launcher in some way to do this. If bonking causes problems, you could launcher slide.

Launcher Projectile duping:


You face a direction while on the lavaboard tap the launcher button, then press and hold it after it's been fired to have that other projectile come from out of nowhere. Then quickly let go and fire another one in some direction before that projectile returns to you. This will have a launcher projectile permanently placed there. It doesn't seem to setup teleports if you damage yourself with it.

EDIT: Grasshoppers definitely seem to either move randomly and have random positions in Ga-Koro or they are constantly moving even before you enter that screen. That is going to make things annoying.

EDIT2: It seems that how you touch a screen transition ever so minutely affects your position or something. This makes things kind of annoying to tas.

EDIT3: Uploaded a new part of the tas. If you want to see sections with lights on let me know. Already got a request for the second section with lights on, so that is uploaded as well.

EDIT 4: I found that triggering the digging enemy near the yellow crab in the relatively narrow passage after the river where you're supposed to use launcher creates lag, so I would stand away from the yellow crab and throw fruit at it from a small distance to reduce lag.

EDIT 5: I copy pasted a bunch of the inputs I got from testing earlier so I was able to quickly finish Ga-Koro in TAS.

Since it is coming up, how does the disc glitch work exactly? I've never been able to replicate it myself.[quote="TheMG2"]I am pretty much convinced now that clipping INTO walls would lead to nothing. The game generally doesn't let you move while inside collision (though as I mentioned above speed will remain the same).

What you would need is a way to increase your speed fast enough that the game thinks your next position should be on the other side of the wall like how I believe the lavaboard glitch works. You would probably need to use the launcher in some way to do this. If bonking causes problems, you could launcher slide.

Launcher Projectile duping:


You face a direction while on the lavaboard tap the launcher button, then press and hold it after it's been fired to have that other projectile come from out of nowhere. Then quickly let go and fire another one in some direction before that projectile returns to you. This will have a launcher projectile permanently placed there. It doesn't seem to setup teleports if you damage yourself with it.

EDIT: Grasshoppers definitely seem to either move randomly and have random positions in Ga-Koro or they are constantly moving even before you enter that screen. That is going to make things annoying.

EDIT2: It seems that how you touch a screen transition ever so minutely affects your position or something. This makes things kind of annoying to tas.

EDIT3: Uploaded a new part of the tas. If you want to see sections with lights on let me know. Already got a request for the second section with lights on, so that is uploaded as well.

EDIT 4: I found that triggering the digging enemy near the yellow crab in the relatively narrow passage after the river where you're supposed to use launcher creates lag, so I would stand away from the yellow crab and throw fruit at it from a small distance to reduce lag.

EDIT 5: I copy pasted a bunch of the inputs I got from testing earlier so I was able to quickly finish Ga-Koro in TAS.

Since it is coming up, how does the disc glitch work exactly? I've never been able to replicate it myself.

EDIT 6: It definitely seems like the grasshoppers have a bunch of preset positions, the fact that the one grasshopper that I launcher slid off of ended up in the same spot as my test was really nice.
I agree that getting into a wall won't help,but I would like to clip completely past them. It's probably just a fanciful dream though.
I'm not positive how the disc glitch works. It happens when I mash a lot. I think it's either that you throw a disc before the counter is decremented, or that you throw a disc at the same time that the disc comes back to you. I can't replicate it consistently though.
Edit history:
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 01:40:30 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 01:38:15 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 01:33:31 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 01:33:31 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 01:31:52 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 01:17:05 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 01:16:13 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 01:16:13 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 01:08:27 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 12:58:13 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 12:31:28 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 12:27:53 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 12:27:53 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 12:27:53 pm
In order to pass through walls, you'd need a way to build up enough speed, like the lavaboard glitch. That's how I would see it happening. It's not completely out of the question, but it seems out of reach right now.
EDIT: I just confirmed that if you shoot the launcher at a bigger enemy that can't be dragged, then defeat it with the projectile still attached, you can still pull yourself towards it and you won't even bonk into it. I don't think you can teleport it though, and once you detach the launcher projectile, you can't reattach it.
EDIT 2: Defeating certain enemies with the launcher projectile attached seems a little weird though, I threw like 4 explosive fruit at a goat in Ta-Koro entrance and only after the 4th one did it seem to register damage.

EDIT 3: I think there is a little more to the disc glitch than simply hitting the button at the right time, because I used autofire and couldn't get it. I have a theory on when it happens, but I need to test.
EDIT 4: My theory seems to be wrong, will need to do more testing.

EDIT 5: If you could record a movie on emulator of you doing it, it would be appreciated so I could analyze it better. I don't mean a youtube video, I mean a file I can playback in my emulator and take a look at your inputs. I'll analyze the videos that I have, but if I could take a look at the exact inputs, I could probably do better research.

EDIT 6: Never mind I just got it, I should be able to figure it out from this.

EDIT 7: I figured it out, it actually involves hitting the other shoulder button which has a different item on it then quickly hitting the button with the disc.

EDIT 8: It seems it must be a throwable item as well.

EDIT 9: OH WOW IT WORKS WITH THE EXPLOSVIE FRUIT AS WELL.

EDIT 10: Basically what happens is you start to throw one item, but then hit the button for the other item, and use the ammo for the first item. I call this the throw swap glitch.
Ahh, okay that makes sense. Now that I think about it more, when I rapid fire to kill enemies, I usually spam both buttons, not just the disk button. Can you repeat this glitch multiple times to get multiple disks?
Also for a 100% run does this count as getting the second and third disk, or do we still need to get those manually? I don't have a strong opinion on it, though I think you probably should. But you are into 100% more then I am.
Yes you can use this glitch to throw multiple discs. More importantly, you can use it to throw the explosive fruit without using up explosive fruit ammo and instead using regular fruit ammo. I'm doing testing to see if the window varies from item to item and will check if I can throw explosive fruit when I have 0 ammo for it after that.

I think you should get the other two discs. I'm basically defining 100% as all permanent collectibles. This doesn't really count as having 3 discs, this is more along the lines of throwing a disc at the cost of something else.
Wait then this is a different glitch. I have increased the number of discs that the game thinks I have, not throw discs using another items ammo.
Edit history:
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 02:20:58 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 02:03:21 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 02:03:21 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 02:01:35 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 02:01:24 pm
Quote from Vibex:
Wait then this is a different glitch. I have increased the number of discs that the game thinks I have, not throw discs using another items ammo.

Nah I checked your video and I get the exact same effect. The counter for the discs does glitch out for some reason. If you notice when you threw both discs the fruit ammo went down.
EDIT: You seem to have a 15 frame window after the first frame you hit the button for the first item to hit the button for the second item for all items.

EDIT 2: YOU CAN THROW EXPLOSIVE FRUIT WITHOUT HAVING ANY. TIME TO BLOW UP THE FIRST BOSS.

EDIT 3: video:


pay close attention to both ammo counts.
Edit history:
Vibex: 2015-10-26 02:21:12 pm
Vibex: 2015-10-26 02:16:19 pm
Vibex: 2015-10-26 02:15:34 pm
Vibex: 2015-10-26 02:14:36 pm
Vibex: 2015-10-26 02:14:19 pm
Vibex: 2015-10-26 02:10:43 pm
Vibex: 2015-10-26 02:08:18 pm
I guess your right. I really thought I had permanently changed the item count.
Having lots of explosive fruit is gonna help out a ton. Now I wanna actaully find out what the highest damage projectile is.
EDIT: This also works on the island. not sure if any uses, but it works.
EDIT: On the island not only do you not take damage, but you don't get any knockback.
EDIT: So I'm not sure why you would use the snowballs ever. The rocks deal more damage. Gonna compare the rocks to the explosives now.

EDIT: The explosive ammo 2 shots the rock monster. However if you do this you need to be careful, and probably can't do both damage boosts because then the explosion kills you.
EDIT: The rocks 4 (or 5, might have miscounted) shot him, but you don't need to worry about damaging yourself. The explosive fruit is far faster.
Edit history:
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 02:36:15 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 02:32:37 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 02:29:26 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 02:22:53 pm
You can probably stun him with a regular fruit first then throw an explosive fruit from a safer distance.
EDIT: Also I think the point of the snowballs is that they fly faster then the rocks.
EDIT2: One regular fruit plus an explosive defeats the first boss.
EDIT3: If you try to do this with a fruit and a non-throwable item, you usually throw nothing instead and just lose 1 ammo. You will activate the drill, but you won't activate launcher or staff.
Edit history:
Vibex: 2015-10-26 02:47:29 pm
Vibex: 2015-10-26 02:47:22 pm
Actually I think we are both wrong about the explosives fruit to kill. I just killed him with 1.
EDIT: Good to know about the other items.
Edit history:
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 05:18:34 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 03:30:30 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 02:52:43 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 02:50:41 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 02:47:36 pm
Ah ok

EDIT: Actually I was wrong about the drill too, it was cause I double tapped the button.

EDIT 2: Apparently if start to throw something, go into your inventory, and swap that button to something else, that is another method to do throw swap glitch.

EDIT3: by the way, you can start the throw swap glitch with a disc so you waste 0 ammo of anything when throwing an explosive. Don't even use up energy. Probably wouldn't be that much better considering how you probably will not run out of regular fruit.

EDIT 4: For whatever reason the snowball color varies by area. I'm guessing that it's a palette issue.
I noticed that it was yellow on the island, but I just assumed it looked like that everywhere. Interesting.
In Ko-Koro they are white and I assume the color is actually correct there.
Most likely. They never really expected you to backtrack to previous zones once getting them (Or to break the game so much).
Edit history:
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 09:13:26 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 09:13:25 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 08:10:26 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 08:09:33 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-26 07:52:16 pm
Well it's also incorrectly colored in Ta-Koro.

EDIT: It appears the glitch also works if you're on lavaboard, but doesn't let you throw items you don't have. At least not snowballs anyways.

EDIT2: Never mind, the lavaboard just doesn't let you throw snowballs period lmao.

If you try to throw a snowball on the lavaboard, you just throw nothing and lose 1 snowball ammo. All other items work correctly.

EDIT 3: wanted to point this out, in order to do this glitch, you effectively have to give up an inventory slot so you would need to enter the inventory more.
Yeah, the only spot were I think you need to do it is for the first boss. in most other situations it's better not too. Though I need to work on my inventory management as well. I open it way to often.
Equipping the explosives really early means you can use them for other stuff in the rescue whenua section as well. One hit on the yellow crabs isn't bad if there are any that frequently get in your way.
Edit history:
Vibex: 2015-10-26 10:43:33 pm
The only crabs that really get in my way are in the second half, and by then I already have it equipped. In the first half, the route I use only really runs into 1.
EDIT: But yeah I could use it to kill that 1 guy faster.
Edit history:
TheMG2: 2015-10-27 02:30:18 am
TheMG2: 2015-10-27 02:26:42 am
TheMG2: 2015-10-27 02:26:18 am
TheMG2: 2015-10-27 01:29:33 am
Optimal menuing (aka the purest form of skill):

Navigating the inventory screen has some weird quirks to it. Thankfully Bizhawk's TAS Studio makes it easy for me to show inputs making this not so bad to explain.

Here is a picture of the inputs in tas studio for me to open the inventory screen and move the cursor to the right on the first frame possible.



Rows are frames, columns are inputs. Green frames are frames where the game is actually checking your input. Red frames are lag frames, where the game does not check your input on these frames. Lower case s is select, uppercase U, D, R, and L are the directions and l and r are the shoulder buttons.

Now about how the inventory works: If you are holding an input, it will only execute on that input on the first frame that it checks for that input. The first frame it checks for inputs in this series of inputs is frame 722 (obviously your number would be different, but the distance from select should remain the same unless lag frames vary). This frame however, is special. This is the frame where the screen has completely faded to black. I call this the transition frame. If an input is pressed or held during this frame, nothing will be executed. HOWEVER, this frame still counts towards the rule of holding inputs. The first frame in which the game will actually execute an input is 734. If I was pressing the same input on 722, that I was on 734, it would not be executed.

If you perform an input on the first frame, you do not hear the sound of the inventory being open, and instead will just hear the sound of the command. If you are holding the input you want to execute on the lag frames up until that first frame, your input will be executed on the first frame. Technically, it doesn't matter if you hold the input during the lag frames, but it's obviously much easier than timing it. However, if the input is held during the transition frame at all, it will be eaten. The trick is to start holding the input after the transition frame.

Now the first frame after the transition frame the objects and characters on the screen will flash:


You are safe to start holding the button with this frame. This admittedly isn't the most helpful visual cue because of how quick it is. Thankfully the next frames have a more clear cue:


The heart and lightning icon in the lower left should make a pretty good cue to start holding the input you want.

If you want to perform the same command again, you must have at least one frame where that input is neutral, then press the input.


Will give you this:


However this:


Results in this:


For the rest of this post, I will refer to held inputs as old inputs and inputs where the button was not previously held as new inputs.

Now when multiple inputs are given at the same time, only one of them is executed. In addition up right is treated as two separate inputs in this case. Same with other diagonal directions. Each different input has a different priority. Only the highest priority input will be executed, the rest will be eaten. Old inputs are completely factored out of this however.

The priority is Up > Down > Right > Left > B > R > L > Start = Select.

If you are to press down + right, rather than going down right, you would simply go down. Now in TAS I just can do each input individually on each frame. On console this is not so easy. However, you can take advantage of how old inputs are ignored to quickly navigate the menus regardless. If you want to move in a diagonal direction, hold either up or down, then the diagonal direction you want to go in. For example, if I wanted to go down right by one, I would hold down, then quickly move my thumb down to down right. The down is ignored on the second frame so the right is executed. If you then want to put whatever is in that slot on r you can hit r without letting go of the dpad.

Of course, if you want to move again, you would need to let go of the direction you want to move in for at least one frame.

Say you want to get from the starting square to the bottom middle square here:


Here is how you would do it:


This ends my ton of words and pictures on menuing.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure screen transitions actually work similarly, so you can copy the same idea for getting first frame long jumps out of a screen transition. I would check the frames on that but I really need to go to sleep.

EDIT 2: Actually there are only lag frames during screen transitions it seems so you can just hold the direction you want to long jump in and b during their entirety.

EDIT 3: Hitting r+l at the same time also triggers throw swap glitch IF the item you want to throw is on l.
Fascinating stuff. I really should get into using emulators to discover stuff. What emulator would you reccomend, and are there any good tutorials out there?
Also good to knw on the ability to hit l+r at the same time to triger item swap. That will save a bit of time.
Edit history:
TheMG2: 2015-10-27 02:07:18 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-27 01:28:59 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-27 12:53:12 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-27 12:53:00 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-27 12:33:39 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-27 09:15:58 am
Bizhawk is the recommended one. I don't really know about any tutorials. I watched one for tasing in general a while back.

About the comment on my youtube video for the one po-koro slide that I can't seem to reply to (you may have something in your settings preventing replies): I don't know if you realize this, but you can cancel out of launcher slides by firing another launcher projectile and canceling it. This is basically the same as how you would teleport but you can hit the button a second time even after you've fired it. I think if you hit the launcher button before it has fired, you want to hold the button down until you want to stop. If it is after, it doesn't matter whether you hold it, you just stop on the spot.

EDIT: If you want to allow people to respond to youtube comments you make, click on the bell in the upper right, click the gear, click settings next to google +.

EDIT 2: It is surprisingly hard to throw swap through hitting L and R at the same time. It's best to hit the one button, then the other. This loses no time, the length of the throw animation is always the same.

EDIT 3: Alt Le-Koro skip:


dunno if it's faster, but it's way more precise.

EDIT 4: And I think I might have gotten the scoripon one hit kill! While not recording as well.

EDIT 5: When I think I had gotten the one hit kill (Or I could have ADDed off and not been paying attention to the number of hits) I had attached the launcher projectile to the scorpion before digging. Do you remember if it was that way for you or no? Want to eliminate potential variables.
Alright, I'll check out bizhawk.
I didn't know that. And thanks for letting me know about my youtube account. Didn't know that was a thing.
That Le-Koro strat definitely looks slower even with perfect execution.
I don't think so. I can't come up with a reason that I would have had the launcher equipped during that fight.
Edit history:
TheMG2: 2015-10-27 03:48:43 pm
I think I may have gotten it again this time without the launcher. Unfortunately, I without thinking loaded a savestate so I wasn't able to properly record it.

A couple of other times I hurt the scorpion when it wasn't even attacking a boulder.

Also I found this:


While holding down the drill button you won't be able to actually move. If you hold down the button while using the launcher, you slow down as seen in the end of the video.

I'm not sure if this is related in any way to the quick kill.

Doesn't seem useful otherwise.

EDIT:

I hate when I do stuff like that. But I am glad that you were able to get it. I was worried for a bit that I had just imagined it.
And those launcher glitches are great.
Edit history:
TheMG2: 2015-10-29 10:09:17 am
TheMG2: 2015-10-29 10:04:15 am
TheMG2: 2015-10-29 10:04:15 am
TheMG2: 2015-10-29 10:04:14 am
TheMG2: 2015-10-29 10:04:14 am
TheMG2: 2015-10-29 09:52:50 am
TheMG2: 2015-10-29 09:43:25 am
TheMG2: 2015-10-29 09:11:38 am
TheMG2: 2015-10-29 09:04:22 am
TheMG2: 2015-10-29 09:03:22 am
TheMG2: 2015-10-28 11:32:52 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-28 10:56:02 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-28 10:51:35 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-28 09:45:36 pm
TheMG2: 2015-10-28 09:39:08 pm
ok so a thing about the giant scorpion: if you wait underneath it until it destroys the boulder, you won't be able to move as the game will detect you as "inside it". However, if you pop out of the ground it will still count the hit. It will even count the hit if the scorpion hits you and pops you out of the ground itself. I don't know if this could be related to the quick kill.

EDIT: Got it again, this time I was recording my inputs. Will upload to youtube.

EDIT 2: Scorpion one hit kill:


EDIT 3: I think what causes this is being hit on the same frame you hit the button to popout from the ground. It seems frame perfect.
EDIT 4: What I think is happening is that being hit triggers you to popout from the ground, but so does hitting the button. I think what happens is that the game thinks you popout from the ground twice and therefore hit the scorpion twice.
EDIT 5: I only think somebody should go for it in runs is if there was a setup that didn't cost much time over not going for it at all if you fail.

EDIT 6: I think I'm slightly wrong about the cause, what damaged me doesn't actually pop me out of the ground. Only the giant scorpion itself seems to pop you out. However, I do think that getting hit interrupts the popping out animation in some way that it triggers twice.

EDIT 7: I think I'm completely off as to what causes it.

EDIT 8: I think I just got it without being hit at all, however the movie didn't save correctly and idk why

EDIT 9: Figured out why things weren't saving correctly, now to research what is actually going on.
EDIT 10: Yeah I don't think getting hit is really related.

EDIT 11: More footage:

This eliminates one possible thing I thought it could have been: popping up ineffectually next to the giant scorpion. More research is needed.