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Hey, sorry i'm new here, so i don't know if this has been mentioned before or if this is the right place to even mention it.  Apologies if i'm out of line in any way.

I was watching the Legend of Zelda speed run (with up A warping, by Mike 'TSA' Damiani) and i noticed an inconsistency.

In the area with a river and a bridge across it (up once, over twice from starting area) there are 4 octrogs (the usual amount) and the first time through, he kills one.  Now, the way the game works, the next time he shows up here, there should be 3 octrogs, but instead there is only one.  I don't know if this was done deliberately (i suspect it happened because on a "mistake run" he cleared all but one octrog, which carried into his "non mistake run") but i thought it should be mentioned here.  Though, in fairness, i can't see the time effect difference being very large (what, like a second?).  But i did feel it warranted a mention.
Thread title:  
The BaldurManiac
if what you say is true than it is indeed worth looking at.
Killer Chobocos don't get any chocolate.
I've played this game for a long long time... that actually happens in the game.  ESPECIALLY in rooms with Zola's...
Huh, i played the game a lot too (grew up on this one :P) but i've never noticed it to happen except by design.  Oh well, if you say so, you're probably right.
Zelda Rules
ive watched that speed run like 20 times and i believe eh did a great job..This is game is soley based on luck mind you so for what its worth it was kool. Im working on a 100% run right now on my Wii. Hopefully i can get a good time
Retired
Quote:
Hey, sorry i'm new here, so i don't know if this has been mentioned before or if this is the right place to even mention it.  Apologies if i'm out of line in any way.

I was watching the Legend of Zelda speed run (with up A warping, by Mike 'TSA' Damiani) and i noticed an inconsistency.

In the area with a river and a bridge across it (up once, over twice from starting area) there are 4 octrogs (the usual amount) and the first time through, he kills one.  Now, the way the game works, the next time he shows up here, there should be 3 octrogs, but instead there is only one.  I don't know if this was done deliberately (i suspect it happened because on a "mistake run" he cleared all but one octrog, which carried into his "non mistake run") but i thought it should be mentioned here.  Though, in fairness, i can't see the time effect difference being very large (what, like a second?).  But i did feel it warranted a mention.


Hey,

This isn't always true. The one consistency I thought I had down was that enemies defeated on a screen will stay defeated for the next two times you return, and on third time they will return to full count.  This is not so, either, and for a long time there was a run I saw that violated this consistency, but then I encountered it myself and realized that it wasn't true.

There is only one enemy consistency in place, which is in dungeons and can be used for abuse:  If you defeat 1 enemy in a room of many, if you re-enter, the enemy types might shift.  For example say:

3 Blue Wizzrobes and 5 Red.  Kill 3 Red. Leave, come back.  Now only 5 red appear, no blue.  What?

It's because of the programming.  I've seen how the game's coding works, and thanks to Zelda Classic, I knew how each screen works in terms of what enemies will come up on dungeon screens, in various situations.  I even made a video also explaining how I could "know what is coming" based on overworld enemy patterns, etc.  The game can be broken down into statistical probability, and betting on high percentage situations pays off.

Otherwise, I've had a time when I've killed no overworld enemies, gone into a dungeon, come out, and the count was wrong.  This can screw up the probability determining on-the-fly, but it wasn't the case.

I've also shown videos of bugs still not reproduced to-date, such as walking on the "top menu" area of the screen, and insta-killing Ganon using a potion upon entering his room. 

There also is another explanation I thought of, but re-watching it it isn't what it is:  That I was playing already and using the reset option when I messed up, but it allowed enemies killed to remain killed on the overworld, but this is not the care nor would it account for this. 

I guess someday I'll just have to make a better run to put up solely for SDA as the video quality of this run should have disqualified it by today's standards.

Anyway, hope that answers your question.  I know there was an issue with my TWW segmented run awhile back, somebody stating the rupee count shifted during the final boss battles where you re-fight the old ones, and I even saw it the first time and was like going nuts as to why this happened, but it is just that the game resets your count to what it was during that boss battle originally apparently. 

To be honest, I should someday just redo these runs with better quality captures, but I figured all my runs would be beaten by now.  I see a new TWW and TMC run are being done, and I thought I saw a new ALttP run being planned.  So yeah, I figured myr uns would have been replaced already.
I am not a NERD or a GEEK I am a N33K
so do you still do speedruns for fun TSA and have you heard of bottle adventure and the DoT Skip
Retired
I knew about BA before I retired - it had just been found out.

DoT I insisted was possible awhile ago, though I did not know how to do it (just that it would be done and lead to the ultimate sequence break of all time in that game).
Quote:
I knew about BA before I retired - it had just been found out.

DoT I insisted was possible awhile ago, though I did not know how to do it (just that it would be done and lead to the ultimate sequence break of all time in that game).

did you know how to get Oob, or did you just guess it was possible?
zzzzzzzzzz
on Today at 5:31pm, TSA wrote:I knew about BA before I retired - it had just been found out.

DoT I insisted was possible awhile ago, though I did not know how to do it (just that it would be done and lead to the ultimate sequence break of all time in that game). 


did you know how to get Oob, or did you just guess it was possible?
Retired
No, I did not know how to get out of bounds.  I just said people should try getting through that door.  I know a lot of people tried on emulator and said it wasn't possible back then.
I am not a NERD or a GEEK I am a N33K
well you keep up the good work with your website and I believe you DoT was pretty obvious
Edit history:
Arctic_Eagle: 2008-04-18 01:00:10 am
I have a question for you TSA: Why do you walk across the entire Lost Hills area on your way to get the white sword (10:25-10:32 in the video)? Wouldn't it be about 2 seconds faster to turn straight right when you enter that screen from the right to end up at the left side of the Lost Hills screen, then turn left to exit the Lost Hills screen?

It's a very good run apart from that btw, and one of my favorite runs at SDA, as it's such a frustrating game to speed run with all the luck (and time) required.
Retired
The route used here is not optimal at all, so I am sure I made incorrect decisions here and there - it's possible using the fact you stay on that screen to "warp" to a side which results in the escape side could be faster, as you suggest.

There's two best routes, IMO, for the best speedrun.  One relies more heavily on luck and bomb skill and not getting the most powerful swords possible early on, in exchange for less overworld traveled.  The other relies on getting both upgraded swords as soon as possible in order to defeat dungeon enemies faster than you could without them, in exchange for some extra walking distances.  This route also uses the power bracelet to recoup some of that walking distance lost.
Edit history:
Arctic_Eagle: 2008-04-18 03:03:28 am
Bomb skills? Oh no... It would be an advantage to have done the extremely extreme challenge then  Wink

I've seen Rodrigo Lopes Great Palace in his WR and he needs a bombdrop inside there to be able to finish it. The luck and skill needed to beat that run just seems totally out of this world.
bläää
Im waiting for your PAL speedrun Kristian Wink

Rodrigos route. Do you know wich route he did take? Or is it still a mysterious secret?
Retired
Quote:
Bomb skills? Oh no... It would be an advantage to have done the extremely extreme challenge then  Wink

I've seen Rodrigo Lopes Great Palace in his WR and he needs a bombdrop inside there to be able to finish it. The luck and skill needed to beat that run just seems totally out of this world.


There are no bombs in Zelda II: The Adventure of Link.  You mean Level 9 in The Legend of Zelda?  Pretty intense to rely on a bomb drop that late.
Edit history:
Arctic_Eagle: 2008-04-21 07:05:50 pm
Quote:
Im waiting for your PAL speedrun Kristian Wink

Rodrigos route. Do you know wich route he did take? Or is it still a mysterious secret?


Takk for sist! Wink I haven't played Zelda more than a few hours since we talked about it. I don't know how long it will take or how ambitious it'll be. I felt I had to practice Shadow Warriors II a bit  Grin

I don't know about Rodrigo Lopes' route, but it won't surprise me if he uses much of the route TSA mentioned relying on bomb skill and luck. He doesn't use the power bracelet, and might finish level 8 rather early before getting the magical sword, which is very difficult. It seems a little unlikely tbh.

And yes TSA, I meant the Great Palace in Zelda, level 9. The Legend of Zelda is certainly a classic as well as Zelda II imho, but I didn't have it in the 80s.

My mistake btw, Rodrigo Lopes enters with 5 bombs, (thought it was 4), which is just enough to make it without a bombdrop (the last Wizzrobe-room before the Silver Arrow will be difficult/take longer time though. Why do Zelda-walkthroughs never seem to advice people to walk on the middle of the "lines" in Wizzrobe-rooms? Or how the flute-warp works? It took some time for me to understand the flute (it's a flute, but feel free to name it recorder or whistle.)) Rodrigo Lopes' run through the Great Palace isn't much faster than your excellent Great Palace run TSA, 2-3 seconds perhaps. It's here:


Picture-quality isn't good, but I'm not sure that's the reason it's rated at 1 of 5 stars (two ratings by possible Rodrigo-haters).
Jumping Turtle
I've been playing this recently and I comparatively suck of course. I'm interested in seeing a 100% run, though. I had all but one heart, assuming max is 16. Do you consider map completion or dungeon item collection as part of 100%? Or is it just all start menu items?
Videogame Master
Well, let me talk about my Legend of Zelda records:

Legend of Zelda - 1st Quest - (0:31:37) - This is a excelent record, but my objective is improve under 30 minutes, my Level-8 and mainly Level-9 is worst, I can improve large seconds, but is very hard the enemies drop bombs in the right moments, bombs is the key in this Zelda game.

Legend of Zelda - 2nd Quest - (0:39:59) - God, this record is a trash, I don't know how much I can improve, this is my worst Legend of Zelda record.

Zelda II - Speedrun - (01:01:19) -  Awesome run, but I know that I can to do under 1 hour, my key in this speedrun is because I complete this game without enemy encounters, this save me large seconds.

Zelda II - Speedrun Complete (01:15:05) - Awesome run, if I can improve my Speedrun I can improve this too, but I am very happy with this record.

Zelda II - From Save File - (0:41:50) - Cool, but is not my best, I can improve many seconds, I don't know how much I can, If I do under 40 minutes will be fantastic.

A Link to the Past - (01:36:43) - Fantastic run, my most perfect run of Legend of Zelda, a run wihout mistakes, my most perfect strategy, I believe that this record won't be beaten for anyone in this planet.

Link's Awakening - (01:22:57) Awesome run, I practice a lot the Item Menu, this save many second in the run, no mistakes, very hard accomplisment.

Link's Awakenind DX - (01:36:11) - Good run, but I can improve important seconds, many mistakes in my run and in last boss, but still is a good record.

Four Swords Adventures - (03:04:49) - God, this run is fantastic, I almost beat the SDA record (03:02:53) with 1 live and no saves or force fairy ( and my clock not stops in the world map ), nobody in this world will take close.
I survived MIKE-Fest 1
Are you going to submitt some of this run's?
All Hail Rodrigo, Zelda's true love, Mystery Man Smiley
Are you expecting a lot of Zelda II gaming this year Rodrigo?  Wink

When you say you have no enemy encounters in your 1:01:19 run, does that include no enemy encounters when walking on the path too, you know those one-screen no side-scrolling encounters without enemies? Or do you have some of them?
Without having watching your ALttP run, I'm pretty sure I can improve it thanks to some tricks I know.

But please Rodrigo, you don't need to come here just to brag. Why couldn't you just submit your runs to SDA as well? People, including myself, will appreciate it a lot. And don't just submit the last few minutes of the runs that shows the final boss and the credits, because that's just retarded.
There seems to be a precedent to the topic recently brought up, so if there's something I missed, I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes with this post.
I remember in school how some of the other kids came with wild claims. How about the one about a bean stalk in level 1-1 in smb that would warp you to the last level ?  Needless to say, I searched every single inch of the level for it. Never found it. (surprise !) Other fantastic claims turned out to be true (what a sensation when seeing -1 in smb for the first time). Moral of the story "extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence"/"seeing is believing"/ etc etc.
I must stress that I don't judge whether these times actually are correct or not. Just that it's as meaningful to bother about such claims as being troubled by an unconfirmed photo of a ufo (which might of course turn out to be an authentic one).
However, what strikes me in these claims is how some records are supposed to stand until Ragnarok. If the luck/execution of these runs was so diabolic that noone would be able to reproduce it,  what difference would it make to publish them ? I guess you could draw a parallel to the 5 min run of smb. It will probably stand until the end of time and that doesn't change with the run being published or not. It's just executed perfectly. If on the other hand there was a trick that the runner wants to keep a secret and that explains the difference between these times and published runs, it doesn't sound very likely that this trick would be so ingenious that only one person in the whole world could figure it out ? (unless the claimer happens to be the reincarnation of Pierre de Fermat of course)
Seriously, if this is just a matter of personal fulfillment, knock yourself out, but if it's about recognition from other people, it seems strange to try and get it on a site that is all about transparency.