Legend of Mana

2013-12-28 02:41:37 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Dragon Storyline is done! 1:49 IGT! I figure I hit the very high end, based upon my splits. I figure that's the limit, though 1:48 with everything going perfectly and no mistakes is a very longshot. I've got a Twitch highlight (which I'm sending to YouTube right now) with my HQ recording being burnt to DVD right now.

Today...was a good day. Smiley

2bitmarksman

Edit history:

2bitmarksman: 2014-01-12 06:25:33 pm

2bitmarksman: 2013-12-28 06:25:36 pm

2013-12-28 06:24:29 pm

Ate the extra spicy banana

Nice job :3. I managed to get 1:48 in practice but that was when everything clicked perfectly on an emulator. 1:49 isn't going to be beaten anytime soon Tongue

EDIT: This is exactly 4 minutes faster than it should be (i.e. the actual time is 1:52 because I did this with an ISO image and not the original disc)

Sir VG

2013-12-31 01:09:23 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

I did some playing around to try to figure out more about the in-game timer today. If found some interesting things.

1. The IGT starts when you confirm your local map entry.
2. The IGT ends when FIN is fading (roughly).
3. The seconds, while not displayed, is kept in the save file. So when starting a NG+ run, the time carries over with this.

Based upon the info I tested, my Dragon run from the other day was ~1:49:49 and my best Faerie run (from the Hope of Mana weekend back in May) was about 2:12:32.

2bitmarksman

2013-12-31 01:42:30 pm

Ate the extra spicy banana

Interesting. I thought the IGT started when you confirm your name. Good to note Cheesy

2bitmarksman

Edit history:

2bitmarksman: 2014-01-14 01:09:59 am

2014-01-12 06:24:33 pm

Ate the extra spicy banana

Here's a practice run I did after not doing so for quite a while:

Dragon Route (1:55) http://www.justin.tv/2bitmarksman/b/494819098

In that run I got insane luck, and then all the time I saved from that luck was wasted on two bathroom breaks :<

Also some things I tested:

1) The emulator w/ ISO shaves off EXACTLY 4 minute's of time by cutting off the credits and going straight to the sproutling 'fin' cutscene.
2) With the game disc and psxfin 1.13 I found no noticeable time difference between the emulator and my SCPH-101 model PSOne (I tested this offscreen as I STILL don't have my capture card yet, thanks to TigerDirect's amazing customer support -.-). I tested 50 'loads' to the world map and to your 'home' the difference in time was by 0.6 seconds, due mainly to the speed difference in me pushing the start/stop button on my stopwatch.
3) The IGT will KEEP GOING while your on the end of game loadscreen. e.g. if you save at the newgame+ screen, wait a few minutes, and save again, the time WILL be added. So it's worth saving ASAP Tongue

4) The IGT starts once I confirm the character name selection, not which local map you select.

I really need to practice more, but first I need to wait on customer hold for another 2 hours to get TigerDirect to send me my god damn capture card.

Here's a practice run I did after not doing so for quite a while:

Dragon Route (1:55) http://www.justin.tv/2bitmarksman/b/494819098

In that run I got insane luck, and then all the time I saved from that luck was wasted on two bathroom breaks :<

Also some things I tested:

1) The emulator w/ ISO shaves off EXACTLY 4 minute's of time by cutting off the credits and going straight to the sproutling 'fin' cutscene.
2) With the game disc and psxfin 1.13 I found no noticeable time difference between the emulator and my SCPH-101 model PSOne (I tested this offscreen as I STILL don't have my capture card yet, thanks to TigerDirect's amazing customer support -.-). I tested 50 'loads' to the world map and to your 'home' the difference in time was by 0.6 seconds, due mainly to the speed difference in me pushing the start/stop button on my stopwatch.
3) The IGT will KEEP GOING while your on the end of game loadscreen. e.g. if you save at the newgame+ screen, wait a few minutes, and save again, the time WILL be added. So it's worth saving ASAP :P
4) The IGT starts once I confirm the character name selection, not which local map you select.

I really need to practice more, but first I need to wait on customer hold for another 2 hours to get TigerDirect to send me my god damn capture card.

Sir VG

2014-01-13 10:13:42 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

I was doing the Faerie Storyline today, trying out a strat where I learned Tiger Driver 91. I had suspicion when I used it during the fight on Irwin that Jawbreaker (Cx2) did more damage than Tiger Driver 91 (B). So I rewatched my stream to try to figure out the truth.

A boss' health bar is from what I measured, 333 pixels on screen. I measured how much each attack took off.

When I executed Tiger Driver 91, I took off 38 pixels of green and 114 pixels of yellow, for a total of 152 pixels or about 45% of Irwin's health.
Jawbreaker (which both hits connected) took off 132 pixels of yellow and 117 pixels of red which means it did 249 pixels or about 74% of Irwin's health.

...yeah, this game's logic makes no sense. Tongue

(I also see why the Japanese run uses Jawbreaker.)

Attachments:

jawbreaker damage meters.bmp

tiger driver 91 - damage meters.bmp

2bitmarksman

Edit history:

2bitmarksman: 2014-01-14 01:11:06 am

2014-01-14 01:08:54 am

Ate the extra spicy banana

As PJ would say 'The programming in this game is pretty stellar.'

Btw, I still haven't seriously tried the Faerie or Jumi routes yet, but is it worth using the gloves over the 2h for the Dragon route? I don't do Deathbringer 2 btw Tongue

Sir VG

2014-01-14 03:02:41 am

Fucking Weeaboo

I temp switch to Gloves on Dragon for a couple of reasons:

1. More powerful than any 2H Sword I have access to until Braveblade.
2. Because I can stunlock Hitodama and do a pretty good lock on Akravator.

However, in the Japanese version, going with GigasGlove is the better strat, since it's only 2 points down compared to BraveBlade but is much faster.

2bitmarksman

2014-01-14 05:34:55 pm

Ate the extra spicy banana

So you go with 2h until Lumina, get gloves and use until you get a braveblade? If a Braveblade/Gigas Gloves doesn't drop do you bother getting any upgrade from Geo before finishing Summer Lovin', or just end the run there?

I'm totally going to try out the gloves if it means making Hitodama and Akravator behave themselves. Anything that will improve consistency on the two biggest trolls in that route is a welcome sight :\

2bitmarksman

Edit history:

2bitmarksman: 2014-01-14 07:35:27 pm

2014-01-14 07:34:07 pm

Ate the extra spicy banana

Currently trying to find out if there is a ST combo that might make things faster, such as learning Bring It On for the 2h or mabye changing to the spear and learning Cyclone Racer and later Triple Supremacy.

I'm really disliking gloves for it's extremely short range. I have a tendency to be pushed back by bosses because I'm so close, and I realize it would be rather bad to use gloves vs Drakonis and his muffed up hitbox

EDIT: The idea I'm getting at is from the info from this: http://lparchive.org/Legend-of-Mana-(by-Mega64)/Update%2096/

Sir VG

Edit history:

Sir VG: 2014-01-14 10:54:21 pm

2014-01-14 10:50:28 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

The reason for using gloves when I do is because it's MUCH easier to stunlock bosses, such as Hitodama (who loves to spam specials/teleports) and Akravator.

Going with a more powerful technique isn't necessary the best solution. As you saw with gloves, going with a technique that hits more times seems to be better. Going with a spear is likely not going to be an option for any US run, since the best one is what you'd purchase (the best drop you'll get is True Spear, only 17 ATK). Even if you did, you're not going to learn both of those techniques, since Triple Supremacy is 62 Spear Points to learn. And again, more powerful doesn't seem to be better. Even the Japanese run only uses spear for ONE boss (Draculark, the boss of Teatime of Danger). The earliest you'd learn it (assuming no extra fights and you start with spear and only use it) would be:
Dragon: After Drakonis (64 points after that fight)
Faerie: In the middle of In Search of Faeries (the end of the mission you're at 67 points)
Jumi: Cosmo (so you'd have more time here at least)

However, to get a spear that has nearly the same attack power as BraveBlade you'd need to be at a Lv 5 (33 ATK) or Lv6 (39 ATK) shop. The shop would need to be pretty far out or late in your placement (the earliest would be 10th land, 9 spaces out for Lv 5, 12th land 10 spaces out for Lv 6). You only place 19 lands total.

While I admire you're thinking at another angle, the strategy doesn't seem to work out.

As for the Japanese version, GigasGlove is a much higher power than the US version (35 ATK) and the faster attack speed, movement speed are better, and Jawbreaker DESTROYS bosses (in the Dragon Storyline run, Drakonis was killed while still on a BLUE BAR. No joke).

The reason for using gloves when I do is because it's MUCH easier to stunlock bosses, such as Hitodama (who loves to spam specials/teleports) and Akravator.

Going with a more powerful technique isn't necessary the best solution. As you saw with gloves, going with a technique that hits more times seems to be better. Going with a spear is likely not going to be an option for any US run, since the best one is what you'd purchase (the best drop you'll get is True Spear, only 17 ATK). Even if you did, you're not going to learn both of those techniques, since Triple Supremacy is 62 Spear Points to learn. And again, more powerful doesn't seem to be better. Even the Japanese run only uses spear for ONE boss (Draculark, the boss of Teatime of Danger). The earliest you'd learn it (assuming no extra fights and you start with spear and only use it) would be:
Dragon: After Drakonis (64 points after that fight)
Faerie: In the middle of In Search of Faeries (the end of the mission you're at 67 points)
Jumi: Cosmo (so you'd have more time here at least)

However, to get a spear that has nearly the same attack power as BraveBlade you'd need to be at a Lv 5 (33 ATK) or Lv6 (39 ATK) shop. The shop would need to be pretty far out or late in your placement (the earliest would be 10th land, 9 spaces out for Lv 5, 12th land 10 spaces out for Lv 6). You only place 19 lands total.

While I admire you're thinking at another angle, the strategy doesn't seem to work out.

As for the Japanese version, GigasGlove is a much higher power than the US version (35 ATK) and the faster attack speed, movement speed are better, and Jawbreaker DESTROYS bosses (in the Dragon Storyline run, Drakonis was killed while still on a BLUE BAR. No joke).

2bitmarksman

Edit history:

2bitmarksman: 2014-01-15 03:57:36 am

2014-01-15 03:55:13 am

Ate the extra spicy banana

Mkay. Thing is with the battle points needed to learn the technique, I think (at least in the US version) that bosses give more than 1 OR they are less, which is why I thought it may be plausible to use. Basing this off the battle's needed to learn Counterattack from Defend, based on the data on that thread; it claims you need to have Defend for 8 total battles, but Luon highway only has 7 if you include the boss. Following that, Counterstrike needs 6 according to his data, but I always learn it after finishing Mekiv Caverns (a total of 4 battles including the boss fight).

Also the spear wouldn't need to have the same attack power as the Braveblade due to it's higher attack speed, or at least that was my hope.

And I know the Japanese version is way different compared to the US. Some weapons have more attack power and depending on the bosses I've heard the difference in health in the US could be 1x-7x the amount of HP compared to the Japanese version.

I'll try out gloves only for hitodampainintheass and Arkravatard and see how things go Tongue

Mkay. Thing is with the battle points needed to learn the technique, I think (at least in the US version) that bosses give more than 1 OR they are less, which is why I thought it may be plausible to use. Basing this off the battle's needed to learn Counterattack from Defend, based on the data on that thread; it claims you need to have Defend for 8 total battles, but Luon highway only has 7 if you include the boss. Following that, Counterstrike needs 6 according to his data, but I always learn it after finishing Mekiv Caverns (a total of 4 battles including the boss fight).

Also the spear wouldn't need to have the same attack power as the Braveblade due to it's higher attack speed, or at least that was my hope.

And I know the Japanese version is way different compared to the US. Some weapons have more attack power and depending on the bosses I've heard the difference in health in the US could be 1x-7x the amount of HP compared to the Japanese version.

I'll try out gloves only for hitodampainintheass and Arkravatard and see how things go :P

Sir VG

Edit history:

Sir VG: 2014-01-15 04:00:32 am

2014-01-15 03:59:41 am

Fucking Weeaboo

I've already counted bosses that give 4 points. Not all bosses give you 4. Here's the list, pulled from GameFAQs:

Mantis Ant
Du'Inke
Du'Cate
Du'Mere
Gorgon's Eye
Gova
Labanne
Tropicallo
Fullmetal Haggar
Orc
Jewel Beast (All instances)
Deathbringer
Kima
Akravator
Drakonis
Lord of Jewels 999
Lord of Jewels 1000
Irwin
The Mana Goddess

Quote:

Also the spear wouldn't need to have the same attack power as the Braveblade due to it's higher attack speed, or at least that was my hope.

Speed only wins out over ATK if the difference is minimal. More than about a couple of points and it'll lose.

2bitmarksman

Edit history:

2bitmarksman: 2014-01-15 04:08:13 am

2014-01-15 04:05:07 am

Ate the extra spicy banana

Ahh that explains it, good to know :3

Also, for Hito and Ark, do you use quick attacks or Power-canceling to keep them stunlocked?

Sir VG

2014-01-15 05:21:15 am

Fucking Weeaboo

You can't stunlock them with power-cancels. You have to use rhythmic regular attacks (the "blue streak" is your combo that leads to stunlocking). The rhythm for gloves stun-locking is about 120 BPM.

2bitmarksman

2014-01-15 03:33:15 pm

Ate the extra spicy banana

Alright, good to note

2bitmarksman

2014-01-19 09:48:31 pm

Ate the extra spicy banana

Random thought, how much faster would you reckon it would speed up a run if done co-op? Thinking it might be entertaining if there were a coop% in a *GDQ marathon or something.

Sir VG

2014-01-19 10:50:17 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Bosses can be destroyed if you get two competent players together with good equipment. You basically attack at alternate intervals (regular hits in rhythm until stunned, then heavy hits while stunned) and typically bosses can't do much. There's a partial TAS on Nicovideo that I've seen that uses this tactic. Du'Inke got DESTROYED. (While the TAS does use heavy attacks, it's probably easier for 2 human players to go with the strat I mentioned.)

Here's that video: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm14625433

2bitmarksman

2014-01-20 04:36:32 am

Ate the extra spicy banana

The tactic you mentioned is exactly as I thought would be the optimal strat for two players. If a *GDQ lets a LoM run in it I'd be down for doing that coop; would be good fun and something a bit more unique. Also might be fun to see if there's any bosses that could be killed blindfolded (besides Du'Inke).

Though I was thinking a new game type of co-op run. I 2P is set from auto to manual it will automatically set that each time a new secondary NPC is added, meaning it would only need to be done once in the whole run.

Saw the vid, I really wish there was a complete one. It would be awesome to watch.

Sir VG

2014-01-20 05:03:51 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Well, we'll see how I do at Crystals For Life this spring. If it goes well, maybe Mike will let it in. Or if you can make it to that marathon (see Community Marathons forum), I'd be fine for doing Co-Op just to see things get destroyed.

2bitmarksman

2014-01-21 12:36:03 am

Ate the extra spicy banana

While I won't make a promise, there is a good chance my tax return this year will be sufficient to actually let me get to such an event. I will post back when I know for sure, but that'd be awesome to do. I'll also look more indepth to see if there's any RPG's I could contribute or something, though I doubt they won't be covered.

On a side note, finally got my damn video capture card and spent 6 hours tuning everything. Gonna do a full run test tonight.

2bitmarksman

2014-01-22 05:15:08 am

Ate the extra spicy banana

Taken a look at the costs to get to C4L, and it's not looking good. If it were just the flight and hotel fair it would have been fine, but with the absurd cost of a passport it puts it a bit too far out of my price range unless I'm getting over 1200 bucks this tax return, which is unlikely; Only got 1000 last year :\.

Should at the very least be able to make it to SGDQ2014 and if I appropriately work my ass off this summer, have enough saved for AGDQ 2015. I really hope mike lets LoM into SGDQ2014 :|

Sir VG

2014-01-22 05:38:27 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Ah well. I haven't been lucky getting any of my games into the last few GDQs, but I thought I'd ask since it's definitely part of C4L. Oh well. I'll just have to run it well alone. Smiley

2bitmarksman

2014-01-23 12:26:59 am

Ate the extra spicy banana

Is C4L going to be streamed similarly to GDQ's? If so I'd want to make sure I tune into it Cheesy

Sir VG

2014-01-23 03:34:21 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Yes. Official website is: http://crystalsforlife.ca/ and Twitter account for it is: https://twitter.com/C4LMarathon