Legend of Mana

TeganGibby

Edit history:

TeganGibby: 2014-02-27 08:15:51 pm

TeganGibby: 2014-02-27 07:09:43 pm

2014-02-27 07:07:27 pm

Legend of Mana

Another thing: I have left my Japanese copy of LoM on for 15 minutes, and it is still on the jumping Rabites screen. Is it just unplayable on an emulator, or will this also happen on a real US console with the swap trick?

EDIT: Got it working with ePSXe, but not pSX. Oh well; just running it for practice on emulators anyways.

Sir VG

2014-02-27 11:54:01 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote from TeganGibby:

EDIT: What does copy protection on Japanese Legend of Mana look like? Is it a bunch of colored rabites across the screen? If so, what do I do to be able to run my physical copy of it without buying a Japanese PS1?

It's not copy protection but anti-modchip protection. What occurs if it triggers is that during the sprites jumping on screen, it will suddenly stop and display a giant message on screen in Japanese text with a red slashed out circle with it. The message appears normal on a PS1 but is almost impossible to read on a PS2.

2bitmarksman

2014-02-28 08:44:40 pm

Ate the extra spicy banana

For FDS vs non-FDS I'm fine with either turnout. I think the reason for including credits before was due to the single text input to advance the credits when the Sproutling talks to the Fortune teller(?), which doesn't seem all that important to be frank. In addition to the credits being cut off, I had a 1st gen PS1 that would cutoff about 4 minutes of the credits (in an identical fashion to how pSX works) but it ended up dieing. If someone were to run the game with such a console, their times could be near unbeatable utilizing the IGT, so I'd think using a Real time method would provide better accuracy in general.

TeganGibby

2014-03-01 09:29:46 pm

Legend of Mana

So are we moving to real time? SirVG would have just gotten a new WR with it, assuming he has the 1:39 IGT recorded.

Sir VG

Edit history:

Sir VG: 2014-03-06 11:25:20 pm

Sir VG: 2014-03-06 11:25:07 pm

2014-03-01 10:50:17 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

The 1:39 IGT on FDS is recorded.

Edit: And now on YouTube to watch.

2bitmarksman

2014-03-02 03:54:12 am

Ate the extra spicy banana

Very nice SirVG. Hoping to do some streamed practice later today (technically) and see what comes of it. Will probably take my time on some bosses to see about manipulating them.

TeganGibby

Edit history:

TeganGibby: 2014-03-03 01:24:03 pm

TeganGibby: 2014-03-03 01:24:00 pm

2014-03-03 01:23:39 pm

Legend of Mana

Got my actual PSOne today - can Japanese LoM be played on a US console at all with the swap trick? It doesn't seem to work for me. The console does not seem to be modchipped.

Sir VG

2014-03-03 09:21:54 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Theoretically, yeah. But the swap trick is a pain in the ass to do. But I do know that a Breaker Pro won't work.

Sir VG

2014-03-05 08:36:21 am

Fucking Weeaboo

As I keep looking through my Ultimania guide from time to time, I keep finding interesting tidbits. Here's what's I found interesting today.

According to what I understand from the guide (note, I do NOT read Japanese), each HP bar is either 100HP (for a regular enemy with a small HP bar) or 400HP (for a boss enemy with a large HP bar).

So if an enemy has a red and yellow HP bar and both are full, it either has 200HP or 800HP, depending on the enemy.

Also, fun facts on NPC name changes. Left = US, Right = Japanese.
Monique = Lumineux.
Treant = Trent
Skippie = Hason
Niccolo = Nikita
Daena = Danae
Lisa = Corona
Drakonis = Tiamat

SilentOverseer

2014-03-07 01:19:35 am

In relation to the IGT or RTA thing and the point that there is a final input at the FIN screen, a good counter example is Legend of Zelda: Majoras Mask. The timer is stopped in that game after the final blow on the final boss, even thought there are several text boxes to move through in the finale of the game. I just don't see the point of using IGT for this game in particular, its not accurate enough and feels counter intuitive (when factoring in the FDS points) since the final cut scene is the part that we are talking about cutting off in this switch and that is the major point of controversy in using FDS. It is just my opinion but in the matter of this specific game RTA seems like a better choice from a precision standpoint.

Sir VG

Edit history:

Sir VG: 2014-03-07 02:36:12 am

2014-03-07 02:35:27 am

Fucking Weeaboo

The thing against your argument is that there is no in-game timer shown after Majora's Mask is completed. And a number of other games.

In fact, SDA USED to time via real time, but then switched to IGT since it's displayed at the end.

TeganGibby

2014-03-07 10:41:05 am

Legend of Mana

But IGT is unreliable from console to console, which is an argument for real time. See: some PlayStation models skip parts of cutscenes due to hardware differences, fast disc speed skips cutscenes, etc.

Also, it's a pain to get seconds from the in game timer, making it hard to compare runs at greater detail than one minute apart.

Omnigamer

Edit history:

Omnigamer: 2014-03-07 11:50:34 am

2014-03-07 11:50:15 am

All the things

In all fairness, real-time also varies based on hardware quality and condition. A game will likely load faster on a "brand-new" PS2 than on a well-used one of the same model. This is a problem inherent to all disc-based games unfortunately, and is a reason why IGT is attractive for a lot of modern games (so long as the IGT doesn't include loading times etc). The SDA standards, however, indicate that IGT is only useful so long as it's reliable. In the case of skipping the ending cutscene, it's not reliable as a typical representation *unless* the skip happens in the same way every time and the time difference can be estimated.

TeganGibby

Edit history:

TeganGibby: 2014-03-07 04:41:57 pm

2014-03-07 04:41:38 pm

Legend of Mana

I believe the pSX skip is usually about 6 minutes; not sure about FDS or original PS1 skips. Also, IGT includes load times in LoM, so it isn't any more reliable than realtime.

2bitmarksman

2014-03-07 11:08:34 pm

Ate the extra spicy banana

I timed the pSX skip. It's exactly 4 minutes.

Sir VG

2014-03-07 11:24:16 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

I've started doing comparisons between FDS and SDS, but getting everything is gonna take some time. I do have the ending done. The difference was 7m 10.030s.

http://pastebin.com/TFCJ0GNV

Petkorazzi

2014-03-08 11:46:04 pm

There's an issue with timing skips, though: some people don't get them.

I've done multiple full runs of this game on both pSX 1.13 and PSXjin 2.0.2, and have never had the ending cutscene skip. Examples:

http://www.twitch.tv/petkorazzi/c/3851732?t=100m47s (PSXjin 2.0.2 for SRL race)
http://www.twitch.tv/petkorazzi/c/3840747?t=112m24s (pSX 1.13)

Regardless, to me it's a moot argument. I can't think of a single reason why the IGT for this game should ever be trusted. Yes, RTA is subject to loading time variances across hardware...but so is the IGT. It's so confusing as to what exactly the IGT even times. Does it cut out loading screen times? If so, why is the IGT so much longer than RTA? The ending cutscene is a bit over 8 minutes, but my IGTs are usually about 10 minutes longer than RTA. Also, if we're establishing that cutscene time should be included in the run time, don't we have to stop skipping the introductory cutscene to be consistent?

There's not a single reason to use IGT for this game, but I can think of several reasons why NOT to.

Just the $0.02 of a two-bit pedant. /shrug

There's an issue with timing skips, though: some people don't get them.

I've done multiple full runs of this game on both pSX 1.13 and PSXjin 2.0.2, and have never had the ending cutscene skip. Examples:

http://www.twitch.tv/petkorazzi/c/3851732?t=100m47s  (PSXjin 2.0.2 for SRL race)
http://www.twitch.tv/petkorazzi/c/3840747?t=112m24s  (pSX 1.13)

Regardless, to me it's a moot argument. I can't think of a single reason why the IGT for this game should ever be trusted. Yes, RTA is subject to loading time variances across hardware...but so is the IGT. It's so confusing as to what exactly the IGT even times. Does it cut out loading screen times? If so, why is the IGT so much longer than RTA? The ending cutscene is a bit over 8 minutes, but my IGTs are usually about 10 minutes longer than RTA. Also, if we're establishing that cutscene time should be included in the run time, don't we have to stop skipping the introductory cutscene to be consistent?

There's not a single reason to use IGT for this game, but I can think of several reasons why NOT to.

Just the $0.02 of a two-bit pedant. /shrug

Sir VG

2014-03-09 05:51:44 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote from Petkorazzi:

Regardless, to me it's a moot argument. I can't think of a single reason why the IGT for this game should ever be trusted. Yes, RTA is subject to loading time variances across hardware...but so is the IGT. It's so confusing as to what exactly the IGT even times. Does it cut out loading screen times? If so, why is the IGT so much longer than RTA? The ending cutscene is a bit over 8 minutes, but my IGTs are usually about 10 minutes longer than RTA. Also, if we're establishing that cutscene time should be included in the run time, don't we have to stop skipping the introductory cutscene to be consistent?

IGT counts everything from when you select your local map until FIN fades out. Load times, intro cutscene, ending cutscene, menu time, and pauses are all counted. The reason why it's much longer is because it counts the ending, which is nearly 10 minutes after you beat the final boss. (Trust me, it's 10, not 8 for all of that ending stuff.)

The intro cutscene is skippable, the ending cutscene is not. That's why there are no issues with skipping the intro cutscene - because it's game designed that way. The ending scene was not. It's like skipping cutscenes in any modern RPG. If it's skippable, you skip it. If it's not, you don't. Like FF9. The cutscenes there aren't skippable, unless you open the CD door (which is forbidden by SDA rules).

IGT is consistent and calculable virtually to the second, but FDS tampers with it. (Seriously, even though the final save doesn't display the time, it does keep it and I can figure it out within probably a second.)

[quote="Petkorazzi"]
Regardless, to me it's a moot argument. I can't think of a single reason why the IGT for this game should ever be trusted. Yes, RTA is subject to loading time variances across hardware...but so is the IGT. It's so confusing as to what exactly the IGT even times. Does it cut out loading screen times? If so, why is the IGT so much longer than RTA? The ending cutscene is a bit over 8 minutes, but my IGTs are usually about 10 minutes longer than RTA. Also, if we're establishing that cutscene time should be included in the run time, don't we have to stop skipping the introductory cutscene to be consistent?[/quote]

IGT counts everything from when you select your local map until FIN fades out. Load times, intro cutscene, ending cutscene, menu time, and pauses are all counted. The reason why it's much longer is because it counts the ending, which is nearly 10 minutes after you beat the final boss. (Trust me, it's 10, not 8 for all of that ending stuff.)

The intro cutscene is skippable, the ending cutscene is not. That's why there are no issues with skipping the intro cutscene - because it's game designed that way. The ending scene was not. It's like skipping cutscenes in any modern RPG. If it's skippable, you skip it. If it's not, you don't. Like FF9. The cutscenes there aren't skippable, unless you open the CD door (which is forbidden by SDA rules).

IGT is consistent and calculable virtually to the second, but FDS tampers with it. (Seriously, even though the final save doesn't display the time, it does keep it and I can figure it out within probably a second.)

Haynen

2014-03-10 12:06:36 pm

Here is a faster faerie's quest order than the one on the site (I haven't optimized artifact placement locations, just AF's earned). Basically skip the Lost Princess as you shouldn't complete it (still get the jade egg as its a quick AF to get)
1.) Mailbox
2.) Colorblocks
3.) Wheel
NICCOLO'S BUSINESS UNUSUAL
4.) Flame
5.) Medallion
HUNTIN' DU'CATE
6.) Sand Rose
7.) Ancient Tablet
THE MURMURING FOREST
THE FLAME OF HOPE
8.) Torch of Coral
TWO TORCHES
9.) Stone Eye
THE GORGON EYE
10.) Firefly Lamp
IN SEARCH OF FAERIES
TEATIME OF DANGER
11.) Bottled Spirit
12.) Rusty Anchor
MINE YOUR OWN BUSINESS
13.) Moon's Mirror
Fail POKIEHL: DREAM TELLER
STAR-CROSSED LOVERS
HEAVEN'S GATE
14.) Brooch of Love

Need 4 more artifacts to be able to trigger Cage of Dreams
Pick the Fastest Ones
15.) Tell Elazul you will help him find Pearl, but don't-Jade Egg
Faeries' Light-Trembling Spoon
Nicolo's Business Unusual 2- Broken Doll
Drowned Dreams-Pirate's Hook
Infernal Doll-Tome of Magic

Sir VG

2014-03-10 02:06:03 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

The route I use is completely different than the one on the site. Same with Dragon and Jumi. Don't worry. Dragon is 9 minutes faster, Faerie is about 18 minutes faster right now than the SDA run, and Jumi is about 10 (with a really crappy route).

So please don't look at the SDA runs on how they suck. I KNOW THEY DO. I just haven't bothered to submit anything yet.

djtifaheart

2014-03-13 10:50:57 pm

Gotta Go Fast!

Quote from Sir VG:

IGT counts everything from when you select your local map until FIN fades out. Load times, intro cutscene, ending cutscene, menu time, and pauses are all counted.

Just poking in to ask: Does IGT count towards deaths? Here's what I mean by that;

In the case of Kingdom Hearts: Dream Drop Distance - if you die, the game doesn't count that against you. It resets the in-game clock back to say 2:20 at the start of the boss where you died. So does LoM count/time the deaths against you?

I'd assumed we clocked by IGT due to saving at the end. We don't do this for KH3D, but we counted the credits in the split timers still. We ran across IGT/RTA differences and started using RTA.

For LoM, I clock both RTA/IGT and use splits.

Sir VG

2014-03-14 06:39:33 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Based upon what I got for my splits for my Dragon (J) 1:57, I don't believe that the time resets for deaths.

djtifaheart

2014-03-17 02:09:25 am

Gotta Go Fast!

I watched a bit of your Dragon (J) run and that's what I think as well. Since the game gives you two options (Continue and load). I know most people want to flick the switch to RTA timing, but I think I'm a little split. Think I'll just clock both RTA/IGT - I'll give LoM credit for having a better IGT than KH3D's. Tongue

Shame I can't record my runs, but something came up in my 2:26 Faerie run:

The Irwin fight. So considering he attacks a lot, there's little room to get your own attacks in. I used a method from Illusion of Gaia speedruns here called attack rhythm - that stun locked Irwin and held him in place. I didn't bother using ST's in this case, just kept with attack rhythming him to death. He didn't get a single attack off. Not sure if that'll be a faster strat on him than using ST's/attacks when you can. It helps not having Daena in your way either.

Sir VG

2014-03-20 12:34:28 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Smashed my US Faerie run today, bringing the IGT down to 2:09 (estimated time of 2:09:44). Probably enough mistakes to bring it down to 2:08, matching the Japanese time (though I know that run can be improved).

Attachment:

Faerie - 219 [Times].jpg

djtifaheart

2014-04-01 12:12:28 pm

Gotta Go Fast!

Did a test run with the new route.

Cons: the RNG drop, took maybe nine tries? Only thing I don't like about this route change honestly. :p

Everything else is fine between the quest change and AF placement order. Though it'll take some getting used to, whatever muscle memory I had for the old route is now thrown off, haha. Such is the life of running games.

I wasn't using splits since the only thing I wanted to do was make sure my notes were matching up okay. Got a 2:37 - but that's with me pausing, fixing notes and a Mana Goddess wipe. I think having Evade on hand before spoiled me. It's nice to have a challenge without it now.

Congrats on the 2:07 and thank you again for the splits pictures, VG!