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Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light (Any %) (Individual Level) [New Game+, 2 players]

Verifier Responses

Before I get to the comments, I would like to say that there are many things that are different when playing on co-op vs single player (I think the record times have total over a 5 minute difference, both times under 30 minutes).  My specialty is in the single player speedrunning section of this game, so I may question a few things that I do not know as well.  Also, I am aware that the videos I post below do confirm who I am, and I'm fine with that.

ToL – first door that they wait on at about 30 seconds into the video could have been entered sooner with better timing.  For my runs I immediately roll to the door and continue to roll into the door and then jump half way through the 5th roll into the door.
like 0:34 in this video

At 1:40, this door can be skipped on single player and would save time.  I’m not sure how that skip would work on co-op though.
The gap after the firetrap could have been faster

TG – This clip is legit, no cheating here. (if only this can be done on Single Player...).

ST – I’ve heard of this, and have seen the runners do it live.  Again, if only there was a single player route for this.

Sum – while 7 seconds is certainly a good time, I would think 6 would be possible on co-op, even if it is on PC.

FG – I can agree with this route for SS runs, but I think the single player route would be faster here. Have Totec throw the spears and Lara jump up them and then jump behind the door to the final section.  Since I have not done any co op runs, I’m not 100% certain of this.  What I am certain of is that this final section can be done faster.  You need to avoid jumping and roll the whole way.  Sometimes that means rolling diagonally between platforms, but that can cut off some more time.

TS – The cutscene skip at the start could be faster by cutting it closer to the trigger I think.  Skipping the second gate could have been faster.  It took a little too long to pull Totec up I think.  Also, why pull Totec up after the 2 spear jump for the skip? Couldn’t he just die and warp up just like Lara did after hitting the loading trigger?  The ball can be blown off the post with the same result without it having to make a full circle and wait on it.  Although VERY difficult, the ball can be kept in the center and go straight down the stairs to the end, saving several seconds.  Nice ending clip! I was unaware of it.

FP – Couldn’t Lara die after getting Totec across the first trap?  The rest seems alright to me.

JoD – There are wooden “bridges” that slow the fish down.  These can be destroyed without wasting any time by dropping a grenade.  I think at least a 1:21 if not 1:20 should be possible with the speed shown in this run.

TB – Looks good, only a minor hold up on Lara at the final ascent.

FD – Does Totec really need to be warped up to the spear at the start?  You can move earlier at the firewalls at about 0:44.  While I’ve seen this skip at the end done live on stream, I do not know if this is as fast as it can be done.

BotB – I think 0:16 could be possible on co-op (with how tight the window is for 0:15 on console (only 2 people are known to have done it), I doubt that can be done on PC).  Totec shouldn’t need to bomb boost. He’ll hit the trigger before he dies and is warped up to the platform.

SP – Like with Forgotten Gate, I think the Single player route would be faster for an IL, having Totec drop the spears and Lara jump OoB behind the gate.  Having not done co op runs, I do not know this for certain.  Again, like with FG, avoid jumping at the end section to keep moving straight forward as much as possible.  I think another second or more could be saved with a better rolling route and less jumping at the end. Also, I’m shocked this is 1:00, but i believe a sub minute time can be done.

MW – WHOA! I didn’t know you could do that.  I wonder if that’s possible on single player…?  it took a second to set it up, though.

XS – The now first time you face Xolotl (since the first time is skipped), you can defeat him before he disappears. This will save a couple seconds from him warping.

like at 2:24 in this video

Over all this is a good IL table.  I can see a few things that could be improved, but not enough to warrant a reject.  I would encourage the runners to try to improve upon these times as well.


Running a coop-game myself I know that doing stuff like this perfectly is difficult. Therefore, a single minor mistake in an overall absolutely perfect run can and should be ignored. I spotted some minor mistakes, but I'm not gonna mention them. Reason being that 1) This shit is good, 2) Verifier 1 pointed them out already 3) It probably isn't a mistake.

Individual level comments:
Temple of Light: This one is fairly long and there's quite a lot of little tricks in this. Very well executed.
Temple Grounds: Yes, epic skip.
Spider Tomb: Yes, epic trick.
The Summoning: Lol NG+ fail. Wonder how many tries they gave this.
Forgotten Gate: This level
Toxic Swamp: Woah
Flooded Passage: No comment
The Jaws of Death: I think I've said everything I wanted to say during the first 5 levels.
Twisting Bridge: Nice little OoB trick here.
Fiery Depths: Wait, what?
Belly of the Beast: This and the next level are switched around in the comments. Rather annoying.
Stronghold Passage: That level
Mirror's Wake: Interesting trick.
Xolotl's Stronghold: Meh

A/V correct
Gameplay is excellent
No cheating detected

I had more to say about this, but I forgot what it was. Prolly isn't important.


Temple of Light:

Pretty interesting Co-op strats for this stage, especially the last room. Killing the rope user to respawn later, skipping some of the tag puzzles part way through.

Temple Grounds

Co-op camera clipping abuse for the win.

Spider’s Tomb

This run and all of the others were done via Online Co-op, so you’ll expect weird moments that looks like it’s cheating, but it really isn’t, such as the very start of the stage.

The Summoning.

The PC version has a disadvantage as you can only recoil cancel certain weapons such as the regular spear. The Xbox (and PS3?) can abuse recoil cancelling on every weapon including the Spear of Light. However the time differences are very minor for these boss stages like 1-2 seconds, depending on the boss’s health meter.

Forgotten Gate

Probably the most accurate stage name after watching the run.

Toxic Swamp

Notoriously the toughest stage to get a flawless quality IL run, even if it was Segmented like Gears of War style (reloading after hitting a checkpoint). The spiked ball room can be improved by ~5 seconds but it’s a really, really tough room to clear perfectly. The last section is the best part, it’s possible to skip the RUN sequence on Single Player but the frame window and positioning is extremely picky (Sonic Scrap Brain Zone act 3’s zip but worse). Thankfully the Co-op exclusive tricks make this skip really easy to achieve.

Flooded Passage:

I like how the invisible barrier is very small and doesn’t cover the entire Y axis. As the Massive Spike ball sequence is skipped.

The Jaws of Death:

Never been a huge fan of this stage, I’m always puzzled how players save a few more seconds even if my attempt looks perfect. But they didn’t play this stage as Raziel .. reject

Twisting Bridge:

Nice the single player route works with Co-op. Other than the ending bit where it abuses rope jumping.

Fiery Depths:

One of the most confusing runs to watch, even after knowing the game for over 2 years.

Stronghold Passage

As you perform single segment speed runs of this game, you’ll realise that the developers didn’t do a great job with the invisible barrier development. The stage is pretty much like Forgotten Gate.

Belly of the Beast

Just like The Summoning, PC players has a small disadvantage. Thankfully the difference between this run and a single player console run is just over 1 second. But I can imagine a Co-op run on Console can clear it in mid-15 or high-14 seconds.

Mirror’s Wake

Holy cow, this is an interesting Co-op strat. Very different to the one I’ve seen on Youtube. Still a few seconds slower than the single player route (due to 2p Totec being unable to reach high places without assistance).  I should note that positioning with the (spike) ball is important, as you can ride on the ball when Lara/Totec is performing the climbing up animation, and I think the small delay is there because it’s online and there must have been some communication method to execute the double bomb blast.

Xolotl's Stronghold:

Pretty standard, only improvement is to try and kill Xolotl part 2-A before he rises up going 'off-screen'
Interesting that on 3-B. 2(?) powered up railguns can kill him very quickly.


Timing: It’s possible to find out the milliseconds of the run but there are 2 problems:
1) you have to connect the leaderboards to find out your milliseconds and you can only see the fully accurate in-game time if you get a new PB.

It’s pretty bad if they did a Segmented Full game run first and then did IL runs afterwards because very likely they won’t be able to beat any of the stage times (when making segmented) so no new PBs and most importantly no milliseconds on any of the times. In my opinion, for the consistency on all of the runs (single segment runs, etc) the milliseconds should be ignored.

There are a few DLC challenge packs that are mostly puzzle based, few sequence breaks, a more challenging version of The Jaws of Death & the long corridor sequences similar to Stronghold Passage/Forgotten Gate. The Xbox 360 owners (especially the ones who bought it day one as a timed exclusive during Summer of Arcade 2010) got conned because they can’t play Challenge pack 2 due to Technical issues by the developers!

Overall: Very good submission to SDA, a few improvements here and there. Only a few seconds can be saved for some of the tougher stages *looks at Toxic Swamp spike ball room*. 
It really shows the power of team work on Co-op runs.

Decision: Accept

Congratulations to ariwa and Kotti!
Thread title:  
congrats to ariwa and Kotti!
Yay for ariwa and Kotti!
Thank you Smiley . Here are some responses, mainly to verifier #1's comments:

ToL - We slow down at the jump after the firetrap because for whatever reason the camera was being screwy and didn't let us proceed if we did things differently.

Summoning - 6 seconds seems very unlikely. According to the leaderboards, our time is 7.7 seconds.

FG - Single player strats might be faster,  I'm not sure. In any case, (don't hate me for saying this) I personally prefer doing it this way in a co-op run just because it's a co-op exclusive trick and makes it more in interesting.

TS - The ball... The submitted run turned out funny, we kinda messed up twice on the way and through dumb luck saved the situation somehow, making it look worse than it is. Improvement is possible, no argument there, but it's not something we aim for especially since we have to deal with lag as well. Maybe when we get to play locally and are not too sick of the game Tongue .

FP - There's a set spawn point before the first trap so no death abuse there.

JoD - Did not know about the bridges. Though I doubt that's all there is to it, it seems to be lag more than anything. We've had as bad times as 1:30 and the submitted run was done on one of the few occasions we had to play locally.

FD - Yes, the spear warp is necessary due to a set spawn point, like in FP.

BotB - The bomb boost or anything else doesn't matter. The time 18.8s so a tiny change won't tip it to 17s.

MW - The setup is pretty much necessary, we were playing online with no communication. Fun times. Also I think the trick is co-op exclusive, it takes two bombs to get high enough.

XS - I suppose the first bit could be one cycled, but you must keep in mind that PC doesn't have the rapid fire glitch.

Bottom line is, we're not looking to improve this, at least not anytime soon. Then again that's what we thought when we first got sub 20 so you never know.
Yeah, I made sure to put that I'm no co-op expert, because I wasn't sure about a few things.  The set spawn points is one, so that explains those spots.  Not knowing the fractions of a second also made a few uncertainties.

I completely agree with you about the co op only tricks, and for SS runs I would use those, but if the single player route would be faster on co-op then the co-op only route, you should use the fastest possible route, especially since the setups are not that difficult, and on PC where you can aim spears a lot easier.  It is also entirely possible I am wrong here since I havent done any co-op testing.

JoD- the enemies on the side destroy parts of those bridges with their ranged attacks.  it is partly luck based though, so that explains the randomness of your end times.  My suggestion is to have both players going and each bomb the pillars (there are 2 for each bridge) and that should prevent the fish from stopping.  for single player you need to bomb one side and luck manipulate the other side to get destroyed (or at least that's what I do, but I'm still a clean second off the record)

XS - It only took me 2 light spears to take him out, so that should be possible on PC.
We tested some of the improvement suggestions.

Jaws - Destroyed the bridges, got 1:34. Yeah, it's lag. Maybe it makes some small difference locally but it's no use online.

TS - Totec can suicide after the second gate skip. We only just now found a reliable way to do it.

XS - We don't have full relic meter at that point so 2 spears is not enough. Yes, we could get 3 hits in in theory, but it's really precise.
Hey, just wondering, are you gonna submit this run to Tomb Runner?
We were not aware of such site but I guess we might as well submit there as well.

Also we might try to improve Toxic Swamp as it seems to be the weakest part of the run.