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Anonymous52555
2011-05-24 09:22:29 pm
Metroidvanias are God Tier
Cool can't wait to see it. At the end of the week I will have enough free time to actually continue working on my run. Even though I might Just go finish Maze of Gallious first since I think I've slacked off on that way too much.
UltraJMan
2011-05-26 09:55:56 pm
It's time for some HEErooooOOOOHi cs!
Wow you guys have been busy, I need to read through this thread and see what all could help with my single segment that seems to be getting ever changed.

I really also wanted to pop in to say I'm probably going to start streaming LM again soon, the sudden prompt for this being a little Twitter digging leads me to believe this Monday Nigoro is unveiling the long awaited Wii La-Mulana's release date. So it's time to get back to it!
TheMaxican
2011-05-27 12:21:20 am
Break through the final confusion
Hey, UltraJMan! Hmm... I actually don't remember off the top of my head if we discovered any big timesavers for the any%. We found a big skip that lets you go everywhere in Endless Corridor without the Endless Key (that kinda screwed over Anon's low% run at the time), but I think it doesn't save enough time to do it in the any% (could be wrong, though!).

Oh, and DON'T ever activate that one-time wall in Guidance Gate. Smiley

Other than that, I guess when I post my (long-ass) route, you can look through that. Nothing ground-breaking I don't think (since I'm doing a lot that takes advantage of segmenting, like Coin farming, Lamp of Time usage, and even some Weight drop luck manipulation at some points), but there's a few things, like getting the Talisman and then Palenque's "Small Mural" dias and the Life Jewel in one trip (although I'm pretty sure BlueGlass has mentioned a lot of these before).

It'll be good to see you stream! And I'm definitely curious when we're getting the Wii La-Mulana...

Anyway, on the planning, I'm almost done with all the actual planning part. I'll give it a quick practice run to make sure I didn't make any mistakes or miss anything, and then post that here. Hopefully by the end of this weekend!
Anonymous52555
Anonymous52555
Edit history:
Anonymous52555: 2011-05-28 10:40:37 am
2011-05-27 12:10:32 pm
Metroidvanias are God Tier
Alright so now I have free time hurray. Ok so I started the game up and apparently la mulana really missed me as I had the worst possible patterns from every enemy. This ultimately led to dieing in the twin labyrinth. So yeah...


Edit: Ok so I almost completed the segment. Bahamut killed me but whatever. However in that segment I had to grind for experience because I went over. I didn't just barely go over, I filled a whole bar of experience and a half. So now here is where I must ask the question. Do I kill more enemies along the way, or less? Killing more enemies might make the segment slightly slower but killing less enemies would mean I would take more damage and might even have to wait for enemies to pass by so that could also be slower. So what do you think I should do?
BlueGlass
2011-05-28 12:54:37 pm
Yep yep yep!
I'd say try killing less and straight out avoid as many as possible.  I honestly can't think of many enemies you'd absolutely need to kill outside of twin labyrinths and some in sun temple, even with having to walk everywhere.

Grinding out an extra half an exp bar would probably take several minutes, considering how little an amount most enemies give.
Anonymous52555
2011-05-28 01:54:57 pm
Metroidvanias are God Tier
actually killing more enemies would probably take 30 seconds since I'm already avoiding a good amount of enemies. But That is 30 seconds extra and that is bad, and honestly I don't think I will have to be waiting on enemies. I'll see how it goes as soon as the mask men stop jumping in my face.
TheMaxican
2011-05-28 08:31:30 pm
Break through the final confusion
Hmmm, a good question. It's hard to say since I've definitely never tried a low% run, but in terms of speed, you definitely want to avoid as many as possible, except killing the ones right in your way obviously. The exception of course is during places where you HAVE to level up to get back life, but I'm sure you have those sections figured out already. Smiley

Not to mention that I just realized all of your weapons are unpowered (so you basically have Gauntlet-less Knife and later Katana as your only real fighting options), so... yeah, I would agree with BlueGlass that avoidance will probably be the better option.
Anonymous52555
2011-05-28 09:28:49 pm
Metroidvanias are God Tier
honestly I don't mind the underpowered weapons considering I've gotten use to the knife and katana. I just have to shake my head with you guy's getting the gauntlet, the mace, life jewels and the grail. (In reality I really want these.)
TheMaxican
2011-05-29 12:53:04 am
Break through the final confusion
Haha... yeah, that's how it works. Well, look at it this way - at least you don't have to go through Hell Temple. Smiley

Anyway, a quick late update: the plan is 100% finalized (in a 45KB text file!), with 39 segments. I'm about a 1/3rd of the way through practice run (more of a sanity check for the plan than an actual practice run) and I can confirm that I'm getting the 200 Coins with this route, which makes me extremely happy. Smiley
So, well on my goal of finishing the practice run on Sunday/Monday and posting the full tested plan here!
BlueGlass
2011-05-29 06:17:14 am
Yep yep yep!
Sounds awesome, can't wait to see it.
TheMaxican
TheMaxican
Edit history:
TheMaxican: 2011-05-30 03:46:24 am
TheMaxican: 2011-05-30 03:45:26 am
TheMaxican: 2011-05-30 03:44:55 am
TheMaxican: 2011-05-30 12:42:55 am
2011-05-29 09:16:09 pm
Break through the final confusion
So I'm halfway done with the practice run, and I hit a bit of a snag - turns out that the 3rd coin in the Tower of Goddess Coin strat (the 10 Coin jar in the upper right screen of where the Mantra glyph shows up) and the 10 Coins to the left of the Chamber of Birth warp glyph are linked. That is, if you get one, the other one doesn't show up! (If one of you could quickly test this and let me know if this happens for you too, I'd appreciate it!)

So... yeah, that's a bit of a snag, since not only does this glitch make NO sense at all, now I'm down 10 coins a segment. Hmm... this will take some time as I'll have to do some surgery to the plan, but luckily not TOO much surgery since I had actually stopped needing to grind in the last few segments, so now I'd just have to grind for a few more.

EDIT: Done up to Segment 32, and about to start the Hell Temple segments (so we'll see about finishing tonight, haha...). Yeah, the missing coins ended up not being that big a deal. At this point, what's left of the route is very straightforward, so I'm pretty darn happy with the final route.
For kicks, after this segment, I went and killed Mother to see what the time was. Keep in mind that this time is ridiculously sub-optimal (plus I left the game running for minutes at a time quite a few times while making notes and such), but anyway, the final time was 4:41:47. I don't really have a particular goal since I have NO idea what to expect, but I'd expect anything around 4 hours would be pretty sweet.

Anyway, taking a quick break before Hell. Hopefully I'll have this plan up soon!

EDIT 2: Just about finished (Segment 37!) and found something interesting that I (for some reason) never noticed before: If you get EITHER one of Silver Shield or Angel Shield, the game doesn't let you buy the Buckler!
Um... what does that mean? Does that mean that 100% means you buy the Buckler BEFORE one of the other Shields, or does that mean that Buckler isn't actually required for 100%? I'm leaning towards the latter (the game seems to be telling you, "dude, why would you want the Buckler at this point?"), but I'm curious what you guys think.
Hmm, I guess once we get some sort of consensus I can post the route (since obviously it changes depending on the choice!). Well, unless you guys ABSOLUTELY would like to see it, then I can just post it and amend it once we reach our decision.

Anyway, what do you guys think?
Toothache
2011-05-30 03:51:08 am
Let the music play!
I think the general rule is you don't need to get a basic version of an item if you can get an upgraded version later, so not getting the Buckler won't count against a 100% definition.
TheMaxican
TheMaxican
Edit history:
TheMaxican: 2011-05-30 04:05:25 am
2011-05-30 04:04:53 am
Break through the final confusion
Ah, see, that's what I thought too, but then I was convinced into getting the Chain Whip and Silver Shield, which also fall into that definition. Smiley

Not sure if I want to bring up this discussion again, but if it's true that the SDA general rule is indeed that the non-upgraded versions of items aren't required, then should we revisit the choice to leave them out? Keep in mind that, all in all, getting all three of these optional items takes up like less than a minute of the whole run (Buckler is right at the start, Silver Shield I get when I get the Map for the Graveyard of the Giants, and Chain Whip I get when I get the dias in the lava that unlocks Viy's Ankh), so it's not like I'm really "leaving out" any huge part of the game.

So yeah, I guess I'm all ears on your opinions again. Otherwise, the plan is done and tested and ready to be posted.
BlueGlass
2011-05-30 05:14:31 am
Yep yep yep!
Well, going by precedent, you'd skip them.  I can't think of any examples off the top of my head, but that is how it's normally done.  And really, those two items are such a tiny part of the game that I doubt anyone would mind; plus it means the heatproof case will have an actual use again.
Anonymous52555
2011-05-30 09:47:07 am
Metroidvanias are God Tier
I still feel like the silver shield and the chain whip should be gotten. I don't care much for the buckler even though skipping the buckler and getting the silver shield doesn't make much sense.
TheMaxican
TheMaxican
Edit history:
TheMaxican: 2011-05-30 03:22:35 pm
2011-05-30 03:08:58 pm
Break through the final confusion
Quote from BlueGlass:
Well, going by precedent, you'd skip them.  I can't think of any examples off the top of my head, but that is how it's normally done.  And really, those two items are such a tiny part of the game that I doubt anyone would mind

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel.

Quote from BlueGlass:
plus it means the heatproof case will have an actual use again.

Haha that's a good point, I didn't even realize that.

Quote from Anonymous52555:
I still feel like the silver shield and the chain whip should be gotten. I don't care much for the buckler even though skipping the buckler and getting the silver shield doesn't make much sense.

See, that's what I was thinking too - if I don't get the Buckler, then getting the Silver Shield makes absolutely no sense to the viewer. And thus, by extension, the Chain Whip as well. Plus, if there's precedent, I'd definitely prefer not going against it.

Hmm, well now I'm definitely leaning towards "not required". So here's what we'll do: let me post the newer route (it'll take a few minutes since I'll have to set it up, haha), and if I don't hear any Phoenix-Wright-style OBJECTION!, then I'll go along with this change (ah, and update the 100% thread definition too).

EDIT: Posted the route on a separate post so that I could preview it, and it'd be easier to find (since I may make updates to it later).
TheMaxican
TheMaxican
Edit history:
TheMaxican: 2011-06-25 07:12:11 am
TheMaxican: 2011-06-14 06:04:11 am
TheMaxican: 2011-06-12 04:57:55 am
TheMaxican: 2011-06-05 10:18:35 pm
TheMaxican: 2011-06-01 11:56:26 pm
TheMaxican: 2011-05-31 02:43:10 am
2011-05-30 03:27:49 pm
Break through the final confusion
ROUTE: Alright! I'm surprised I was able to fit it on one post!

Note that any updates to the route will be posted on this post as well.

EDIT 1: Faster Segment 9, faster Segment 17, forgot to add 100 Coins to the abridged version of Segment 25, pushing the 16 Weight trips to after the Bracelet.

EDIT 2: Moved things around so that the Life Seal is gotten before the Feather. Tower of Ruin is visited after getting the Gaunlet in Segment 10. Fixed all the Coin and Weight counts as a result.

EDIT 3: Moved Game Collection 2 from Segment 5 to 15. A few little corrections here and there.

EDIT 4: Faster Segment 9.

EDIT 5: Fixed some mistakes in Segment 10, and moved going to Mausoleum of the Giants to Segment 11.

EDIT 6: Split up Segment 13 into two segments, which cause most segment numbers to get bumped up one.

First I'll start with the ABRIDGED VERSION, just a list of where I'm going and what key items I'm getting on that visit.
Key: SegmentNumber = FieldNumber1:ItemsAcquired. FieldNumber2... etc.
Fields are labeled by their Grail number, Rear Fields are prefixed with a tilde (e.g. ~1).

01 = 1:Life Jewel 1, Shuriken, Grail. 3:Knife, Life Jewel 3. 0:Glyph Reader, Game Master
02 = 0:Hand Scanner. 1. 2:Throwing Knives, Hyper Olympic 2, Magical Tree, Life Jewel 2, Ahkn Jewel 2. 7:100 Coins, Helmet
03 = 1. 4: Hyper Sports 1, Conception Seal, Scalesphere, Glove, Cabbage Patch Kids, Ankh Jewel 4, Quarth. 3:Boots. 6:Time Pilot, Map 6
04 = 1:Konami Tennis, Game Collection EX, Ankh Jewel 1. 3: Yie Ar Kung Fu. 2:Seal of El Giza. 8:Video Hustler
05 = 1. 3:Ahkn Jewel 3, Map 3, Super Cobra. 5:Flare Gun, Grapple Claw
06 = 3:Ellmac, Bronze Mirror, Diviner Sensation, Heatproof Case. ~3:Twinbee, Serpent Staff, Axe, Ice Cape. ~1:Q-Bert, Pepper
07 = 0:MSX2, Waterproof Case. 1:Treasure, Athletic Land. 6:100 Coins. 8:Map 8.
08 = 4:Map 4, Castlevania, Detector, Bahamut. 0:Birth Seal, Life Jewel 0
09 = 6:Metal Gear 2, Life Seal. 0:20 Weights, 200 Coins, Feather. 1:Map 1, Hyper Rally, Amphisbaena
10 = 3. ~3. ~1:Anchor, Monkey Academy, F1 Spirit, F1 Spirit 3D. 1. ~1:Mini Doll, 100 Coin, Salamander, Map ~1. ~2:Contra, 100 Coins, Sky Jaguar, Gaunlet. ~5:Life Jewel 5, Ankh Jewel 5, Spears, Hyper Sports 3. 5.
11 = 6:Maze of Galious. 1:Cross. 2.
12 = 1:Game Master 2. ~1:Road Fighter, Endless Key.
13 = 8:Keyblade, Konami Boxing, Twin Statue, 16 Weights.
14 = 3. 7:Comic Bakery, Ring, Game Collection 4, Map 7, Ankh Jewel 7
15 = 2:Frogger. 7:Fake Hand Scanner, Pennant Race, Dragon Bone, Lamp of Time, Hyper Sports 2, Scripture
16 = 5:Game Collection 2, Mahjong Wizard, Antarctic Adventure
17 = 5:Viy
18 = 0:Shell Horn, PR3. ~4:Map ~4, A1 Spirit, Mace, Pippols
19 = 2:Sakit
20 = ~4:Plane Model. ~2:Mopi Ranger, Bombs. ~6:Konami Soccer, Woman Statue
21 = 8:Yie Ar Kung Fu 2, King's Valley. ~3:Parodius, Ocarina. 4:Life Jewel 4, Game Collection 1
22 = ~4:Unreleased ROM. ~1:Flywheel
23 = ~4. ~6:Map ~6, Heaven and Earth, Ankh Jewel 6, King Kong 2, Pochette Key
24 = 8:Konami Golf. 9:Death Seal. 3:Talisman. 6:Life Jewel 6, Palenque
25 = ~3:Map ~3. 7:Usas, Circus Charlie, Life Jewel 7, Baphomet
26 = ~6:Perfume. 8:100 Coins. 9:Konami Baseball, Diary, Mulana Talisman
27 = 8. 9:Life Jewel 9, Crystal Skull, Break Shot
28 = 7. 9:Map 9. 7:Ganbare Goemon, Katana. ~8:Ankh Jewel 8, Map ~8, King's Valley Disk, Gradius 2 Beta, Gradius 2, Life Jewel 8, Tiamat, Magatama Jewel, Angel Shield. 8.
29 = ~6:Container. 6. 0:Pistol. 5:Goonies. ~5:Wedge, Badlands
30 = 6:Hyper Olympic 1. 8:Mantra. 5:Hyper Olypmic 3, Firebird, Map 5. 7:Penguin Adventure, Konami Ping-Pong, Mantra. 3:Ammunition
31 = ~6. 6. ~6:GR3, Mantra. 6. 0. 5. ~5:Knightmare, Map ~5, Shin Synthesizer, Ruins RAM 16K, Mantra. ~4. ~5:Red Medicine. ~4:Mantra, Gradius.
32 = 3. ~3:Bracelet, Book of the Dead, Mantra. ~2:Space Manbow, Mantra
33 = 1:Mahjong Dojo. 0:Metal Gear, Konami Pinball, Nemesis 3. ~1:Mantra, Body Armor. 5. 6. 4.
34 = 1. H.
35 = 1. H.
36 = ~8. ~4. ~5. ~4. ~5:Green Medicine. 2:Game Collection 3, Map 2. ~2:Map ~2.
37 = 1. H.
38 = ~8. ~4:Lens of Truth. ~5. ~4. ~5:Yellow Medicine. ~3:Pennant Race 2. 4:Shalom. 0:Ruins RAM 8K.
39 = 1. H:Skimpy Swimsuit.
40 = 8. 9:Snatcher, SD Snatcher, Mother.


That's that, on to the segment-by-segment plan! I used hidden tags on a segment-by-segment basis - let me know if something else would be easier to follow. Keep in mind that this has been tested and the math has already been checked, so you don't have to go accounting for all the numbers. Smiley


===== SEGMENT 1 =====
Coins:0 Weights:0

--- 0
Talk to Xelpud, go towards ruins
Get Weight(1) from bird
DIAS(0), then go to 1
--- 1
Go right for LIFE JEWEL 1
On way down, get 10 Coin (10)
On way to shurikens, get 2 Weights (2)
Another 10 Coin (20), followed by DIAS(1) and SHURIKEN
Get 10+10 Shurikens from jars on the left
Go down and get 10 more Shurikens
Peek left for 10 Coin (30), then right, down, right to GRAIL (be not not to activate the trap wall!)
Get 10 Coin (40) below, then jump down-left for 10 more (50)
Head to the Sword-Shield-Helmet-Armor puzzle and do it using Shuriken
Step on switch, get 10 Coin (60) above it, then head to 3 entrance
Hit DIAS(0), push block right (but don't get Ankh Jewel yet), head to 3
--- 3
First go down and get 10 Coin (70)
Back up and jump right, get 10 Shuriken, use one to get the KNIFE
Get 10 Coins (80), then jump down and do ridiculous maneuver to get both bats
Talk to NPC, get 10 Coins (90), go right for 10 more (100), then right again for another 10 (110)
Now up for LIFE JEWEL 3, 10 Coins (120), then switch that unlocks Boots dias
--- 0
Go left and buy GLYPH READER and GAME MASTER(-110=10), 10 Coins (20), and 2 Weights (2)
--- Save

NOTES:
-The "ridiculous maneuver" involves getting both bats as I'm naturally falling through the screen, such that it wastes no time. Unfortunately, it's basically 100% luck, so not only is it not for an SS, but it will also cause a majority of the restarts here. I need to do this now because I'd really like the extra bit of health for Segment 3.
-I actually don't go to the left at the start! I can leave it for later and save a bit of time. Basically I've found that one of the two birds at the beginning has a VERY high chance of dropping a Weight (pretty sure they did that on purpose, since you need one to even get in to the ruins), so I take advantage of that.
-Unlike the SS, I leave the Udjat/Akhn Jewel for later. This is because (a) it saves a LITTLE time to do it with the Boots later, and (b) I don't have the weights!
-Interesting tidbit - I don't get that green jewel in the statue's mouth that activates the elevators. In fact, I never do. Smiley
-Being sure to finish with at least 8 Shuriken for the next segment!


===== SEGMENT 2 =====
C:20 W:2

--- 0
Buy the HAND SCANNER (-20=0)
Break the wall blocking the entrance with 8 Shuriken
--- 1
Get 10 Coin (10)
Fall and read the Grail glyph
Go right and get 10 Shuriken and 2 Weights (4)
Grail to 1, get 20 more Shurikens
On the way to 2, there's 3 10 Coin jars (40)
--- 2
10 Coin (50) below entrance
Get the THROWING KNIVES and HYPER OLYMPIC 2
Head right, being sure to get the switch under the Map chest
Right, fall, right and read the Grail glyph
Go down to the Controlling Heavens room and hit center twice to get Stars
While here, get MAGICAL TREE
Grail to 2
Head right, get 10 Knives and then DIAS (3) to unlock Ahnk Jewel
Grail to 2
Head down-right for the DIAS (2) to LIFE JEWEL 2, and 10 Shurikens
Now go nab the ANKH JEWEL 2
Go back down for 10 Knives and the entrance to 7
--- 7
Go down stairs, then immediately back up for 100 Coin (150)
Go down the right side for the 30 Coin (180)
Now go to shop for HELMET (-90=90)
--- Save

NOTES:
-Not too much deviation from the SS, except that I forego the 10 Coin jar in the Twins' Labyrinth for a slightly faster route


===== SEGMENT 3 =====
C:90 W:2

--- 1
Get 10 Shurikens, 2 Weights (4), and 10 Coin (100) (hereafter known as the "1 Strat")
Head right to 4
--- 4
Get the Grail glyph
Unlock the Map by jumping on the waterfalls, but don't pick it up yet
Up-right, get 10 Coin (110) and cross the water
Kill the mini-boss with Shuriken
Head up to get 10 Coin (120), HYPER SPORTS 1, and CONCEPTION SEAL
Head up for the SCALESPHERE
Jump down for the DIAS (3), then Knife the wheel
Go all the way back down for the GLOVE
Warp to 4
Head to Gyonin for CABBAGE PATCH KIDS and ANKH JEWEL 4
Go down for the DIAS (2), then drain the water and get QUARTH
--- 3
Damage boost to the pyramid DIAS (1)
Head down-right, unlock the Conception Seal to unlock the path to 6
Get the DIAS (0) and BOOTS
--- 6
Get TIME PILOT
Shuriken the crap out of Centimani and get MAP 6
At any point up to here (from the start of the run), hope for a lucky Weight drop (1)
Use that weight on the DIAS (0)
Once the lights are back on, get the 10 Coin (130)
Read the Grail glyph
--- Save

NOTES:
-The damage boost to the pyramid dias is one of those awesome-but-will-cause-many-restarts maneuvers. It's not SS friendly at all but I've gotten pretty good at it, so I'm thinking any SS should at least TRY it and then just do the normal thing if it fails.
-The other restart-worthy thing is that I HAVE to get a lucky Weight drop up to this point. If I get absolutely tired of it then I may just start this segment by manipulating a drop from those birds in the beginning.
-The benefit of getting the 3 Life Jewels up to this point is readily apparent as I have to survive going through the water, damage boosts, and the Centimani fight.
-I could actually get Hyper Olympic 1 (next to the 20 flares spawn) at this point, and at many other points during the run. However, given how often I'll be equipping Comic Bakery and Cabbage Patch Kids during the run, it actually saves time to avoid this one until much later (this isn't the last ROM you'll see me purposely skip for that reason...)


===== SEGMENT 4 =====
C:130 W:0

--- 1 Strat (C:140 W:2)
In the middle of the strat, get KONAMI TENNIS
Grail to 1
Go down to get 20 Shuriken and 10 Coin (150)
Now turn around and fall, then go left and fall to get GAME COLLECTION EX
Get ANKH JEWEL 1 and head to 3
--- 3
Get the 10 Coin (160) in the trap room
Jump right to the Grail glyph
On the way down, go to 2 hedgehog room and hope for a Weight drop
While here, get YIE AR KUNG FU
Jump down to get 2 10 Coin (180) near NPC, then go on to wait under Udjat
--- 2
Go to the shop and buy SEAL OF EL GIZA (-100=80)
Go down to Controlling Heavens room and get Suns by hitting left twice and then middle 4 times
Head left, get 10 Coin (90) in Sakit room and 10 Coin (100) right before 8
--- 8
Head left, getting 2 10 Coin (120) and VIDEO HUSTLER
Get the Grail glyph
Head down for the last 10 Coin (130)
---- Save

NOTES:
-A quick filler segment so that I can get the 8 Warp, which will feed my Coins for quite some time
-While I'm here, I can do a few time savers (waiting under Udjat, getting Seal of El Giza, getting the Suns)
-Oh, and those two hedgehogs in the Temple of the Sun have an insane chance of dropping weights for some reason, so I try to take advantage of that whenever I can, in preparation for Segment 10.


===== SEGMENT 5 =====
C:130 W:2

--- 1 Strat (C:140 W:4)
--- Grail to 1, head down-left for 3 10 Coin (170) and 20 Shuriken (hereafter known as the "1-ext Strat").
--- Grail to 8, head left getting 3 10 Coin (200) (hereafter know as the "8 Strat")
Coincidentally, this unlocks Map 8, but don't get it yet
--- 3
On the way down, hope for a Weight drop in the 2 hedgehog room
Jump down to get 2 10 Coin (220) near NPC
Go left for DIAS (3) and get ANKH JEWEL 3
Grail to 3
Jump into trap area to get 10 Coin (230), get Map switch, and light switch
Grail to 3
Go down and get MAP 3 and SUPER COBRA
Grail to 3
Go left, kill all enemies, and DIAS (2)
Head to 5, killing sub-boss with Shuriken
--- 5
Head left, go left-up to get 10 Coin (240)
Solve puzzle for FLARE GUN
On the way to right, get 10 Coin (250)
Go right and up to get the Grail glyph
Solve puzzle for DIAS (1) and GRAPPLE CLAW
--- Save

NOTES:
-Pretty straightforward. Follows the SS for the most part.


===== SEGMENT 6 =====
C:250 W:1

--- 1 Strat (C:260 W:3)
--- 1-ext Strat (290)
--- Grail to 6, Head up for 10 Coin (300) and 20 Flares, then back down for 10 Coin (310) (hereafter known as the "6 Strat")
--- 8 Strat (340)
--- 3
Start pushing the cart down
On the way down, hope for a Weight drop in the 2 hedgehog room
Go down and fight ELLMAC with Flares
Get the BRONZE MIRROR
Go up and right for 10 Coin (350) and buy DIVINER SENSATION and HEATPROOF CASE (-180=170)
Now head to recently opened ~3 gate
--- ~3
Go right for TWINBEE
More right for SERPENT STAFF
Now go back left and head up to hidden room for DIAS (2) and AXE
All the way up to the DIAS (1) for ICE CAPE and 10 Coin (180)
Go down to the right for Grail glpyh
Now go back up to ~1
--- ~1
Go to invisible ladder, then detour to get Q-BERT
Warp around until get to 10 Coin (190)
Upstairs, get the 2 Weights (3) and the PEPPER
--- Save

NOTES:
-Unfortunately, due to not beating Bahamut until later, I don't have the Birth Seal, so I have to hold off on Gauntlet for longer than I had hoped! Luckily, given the segmented nature of the run, I won't lose too much time because of that.
-I'll be using Q-Bert and Diviner Sensation, along with the MSX2 next segment, to buy out the shop in the Spring in the Sky (which is why Bahamut isn't dead yet). Might as well get the Pepper sidequest rolling as well.


===== SEGMENT 7 =====
C:190 W:3

--- 1 Strat (C:200 W:5)
--- 1-ext Strat (230)
On this strat, though, use the DIAS (4) to unlock the Map (don't get it yet)
Also, push the block to start the "path of angels" quest
--- 0
Go down to buy MSX2 and WATERPROOF CASE (-230=0)
Go right to 1
--- 1
Use the Pepper to get the TREASURE
Get the 10 Coins (10) on the right, and ATHLETIC LAND
--- 6 Strat (30)
On the way up, get the 100 COINS (130)
--- 8 Strat (160)
On the way, talk to the fairy with Diviner Sensation equipped, and get MAP 8
--- Save

NOTES:
-Short and sweet segment to prepare for Bahamut. It still amazes me how many Coins I can get so quickly.
-Hooray for saving embarassingly marginal amounts of time by getting Athletic Land now!


===== SEGMENT 8 =====
C:160 W:4

--- 1 Strat (C:170 W:6), 1-ext Strat (200)
--- 6 Strat (220)
--- 8 Strat (250)
--- 4
Finally get MAP 4
Get the 10 Coin (260) on the way up
Equip Diviner Sensation + Q-Bert, and get the Key Fairy
Go up and jump left, unlock seal, and buy CASTLEVANIA + DETECTOR (=210=50)
Fight BAHAMUT with Flares
--- 0
Jump down to get BIRTH SEAL
Jump down again to get LIFE JEWEL 0
Go left, then up stairs, and uncover the hidden hut with PR3 (but don't go in yet)
--- SAVE

NOTES:
-Waiting to defeat Bahamut finally pays off, as now I can clean out the shop underneath him (and get Castlevania, which will help my Mace do tremendous damage later on). From here on out, I don't need to earn Coins this aggresively).
-I'm going to go ahead and assume that getting a 2-cycle Bahamut will take many, many restarts. Luckily, this is a short segment.
-This is the best time to open up the PR3 skeleton's hut, too, as there's no other nice way to do it (that way I can get in on the way down, when going to the Tower of the Goddess).


===== SEGMENT 9 =====
C:50 W:6

--- 1 Strat (C:60 W:8)
--- 8 Strat (90)
--- 6 Strat (110)
On the way down, equip Diviner Sentation + Q-Bert, and get Key Fairy
Go left and jump into the water and get METAL GEAR 2
Go left and break the wall with the Axe
Go through invisible maze, while Key Fairy unlocks Maze of Galious
Do the block puzzle
Grail to 6
Go up the elevator for the LIFE SEAL
--- 0
Go left, through lower route, for 10 Coin (120)
Fight Algol with Flares and get FEATHER
Go back to the right and unlock Life Seal for 20 WEIGHTS (28) and 200 COINS (320)
--- Grail to 3, go near store under Knife chest for 10 Coin (330) (hereafter known as the "3 Strat")
--- 1
Get 20 Shurikens and 10 Coin (340)
In this room, finally get the MAP 1
Double-jump up to left ledge and DIAS (27)
Go across invisible bridge, up the stairs for HYPER RALLY
Grail to 1
Go down and DIAS (26) to end the "path of angels" quest
Go down and kill all enemies
Go right and solve the block puzzle, and yet another DIAS (25)
Go down and kill AMPHISBAENA with Flares
--- Save

NOTES:
-I could in theory do Maze of Galious now, but I decided to wait until I have the Gauntlet and the Spears, which save quite a bit of time in there.
-After this and the weights in the Endless Corridor, I pretty much don't have to worry about grinding for individual Weights ever again.
-After getting the Feather and 20 Weights/200 Coins, I quickly finish off most of the Guidance Gate and Amphisbaena, in preparation for the next trip to Confusion Gate.
-Thanks to BlueGlass for a quicker route on the "path of angels" quest.
-You'll notice I could have gotten Ruins RAM 8K now as well, but by leaving it until much much later (second-to-last segment, actually), I get to save a few milliseconds every time I go equip Athletic Land or Antartic Adventure.


===== SEGMENT 10 =====
C:340 W:25

--- 1 Strat (C:350 W:27), 1-ext Strat (380)
--- 6 Strat (400)
--- 8 Strat (430)
--- 3 Strat (440)
From here, head down to ~3 gate
--- ~3
Just head directly to ~1
--- ~1
Head to warps and 10 Coin (450)
Go up for 2 Weights (29) and the ANCHOR
Another DIAS (28) and more warping, until the skeleton DIAS (27) leads to 6 DIAS (21) puzzle
Back to invisible stairs, now go left for MONKEY ACADEMY
Go left to store and buy F1 SPIRIT and FI SPIRIT 3D (-185=265)
Do the push puzzle, then DIAS (20)
Read the Grail glyph
Go up to the 1 gate
--- 1
Just step on the switch and head back in
--- ~1
Go back down and read the "mini" tablet
Head all the way back to the warps, and MINI DOLL
Now warp to section below and get the 100 COIN (365)
Go back to room past invisible ladder, walk in front of 2 empty chests
Go to the invisible ladder but instead take the left path
DIAS (19) for SALAMANDER, which also unlocks MAP ~1
Now just go to ~2
--- ~2
Go right and read the Grail glyph
Here, get CONTRA and 100 COIN (465)
Drop all the way down, stopping for 10 Coin (475) and SKY JAGUAR
Stab the giant's eyes
Now loop around back up and get the GAUNTLET
Now just go straight to ~5
--- ~5
Run left for DIAS (18) and back right for LIFE JEWEL 5
Left, left, up, and right for ANKH JEWEL 5
Go left, 10 Coins (485), then do the puzzle for the SPEARS
Get the 10 Spear box, then left and fall for HYPER SPORTS 3
Kill the red slimes with Spears and head down to the 5 door
--- 5
Jump down to the Lava and DIAS (17)
--- Save

NOTES:
-Thanks to the length, this segment may be the hardest yet. Of course, it'd be even harder if I had to manipulate the Lizard now, so I actually save him for later so that I can manipulate him on my third, much shorter trip to the Confusion Gate.
-Thanks to BlueGlass for the idea of coming here at this time, rather than after getting the Endless Key. By doing this, I (a) get to use the Spears on the next segment, (b) don't pick up Ruins RAM 16K for a while (which saves milliseconds on every equip of Athletic Land/Antarctic Adventure, and, perhaps most importantly, (c) it gives me a better chance to manipulate the Lizard on my next visit to the Confusion Gate.
-This segment is a Weight-hog, but thanks to the 20 Weights, I'm good.


===== SEGMENT 11 =====
C:485 W:17

--- 6
Go right to the Maze of Galious
Go through the Maze and get MAZE OF GALIOUS
Equip Maze of Galious + Seal of El Giza now
--- 1 Strat (C:496 W:19), 1-ext Strat (529)
On the way, get the CROSS
--- 2
Just being here will unlock the path to Shu
--- 3 Strat (540)
--- 6 Strat (562)
--- 8 Strat (595)
--- Save

NOTES:
The main thing I do in this ridiculously short segment is get Maze of Galious, to benefit from the extra Coin whenever I can.
-You'll note that I could have gotten the Cross at many points up to now, but I'll need it in the Maze to damage-boost down a long ladder.
-Pretty much the only segment where I grind at the end, to benefit from the extra Coin. I also do a bit of extra grinding, both to take advantage of my new MSX combo, but also to catch up to the eventual goal of around 900 Coins by Segment 15.


===== SEGMENT 12 =====
C:595 W:19

--- 3 Strat (606)
--- 6 Strat (628)
--- 8 Strat (661)
--- 1 Strat (C:672 W:21)
Grail to 1
Head down and left for the ~1 entrance, picking up the easy 10 Coin (683)
Before climbing big stairs, go left for 10 Shurikens and DIAS (20) for GAME MASTER 2
Now go to ~1
--- ~1
Head down to Shu, equip Athletic Land + Cabbage Patch Kids, and kill him using Flares
Go up, unlock Life Seal
Go up for ROAD FIGHTER
Go left twice and, as walking down and right, hope the Lizard walks into light
Break the way to the Endless Key with the Axe
On the way back, last chance to manipulate the Lizard
Go right and knife the block to get the ENDLESS KEY
--- Save

NOTES:
-From now, leveling on the Front Fields will start with equipping Maze of Galious + Seal of El Giza. It will stay on unless noted. You'll also note that when I switch them off, I rarely switch back to them, since most of the time it's not even worth spending the time to put them back on just to get 1 extra Coin.
-Otherwise, this short segment is perfect for dealing with the famous Lizard. I'll have to experiment a bit to determine what a good acceptable "optimal" time is. Smiley


===== SEGMENT 13 =====
C:683 W:20

--- 6 Strat (705)
--- 8
Get the 10 Coin (716) as per the normal route, but now go right
Highlight the "2" block, go right, highlight "0" and kill all flowers to get the KEYBLADE
Go left to get "1", then left twice for the "2" and DIAS (19)
Go left, down, then peek right for KONAMI BOXING
On the way back up, get DIAS (18) that starts timer
Take shortcut to right for TWIN STATUE
Go back left for DIAS (17)
Now go to jars and get an awesome 16 Weights (33) and 10 Coin (727)
NOTES:
-A ridiculously short segment to get the Twin Statue and the 16 Weights. Mostly preparation for the next one.


===== SEGMENT 14 =====
C:727 W:33

--- 3 Strat (738)
Now keep going down, to 7
--- 7
Go into the warp, get the 10 Coin (749), DIAS (32), go back around for other DIAS (31)
Left for 10 Coin (760), then left again for DIAS (30) and COMIC BAKERY
Right, down, left for the RING
Right, get 10 Coin (771), Flare the dinos, and get GAME COLLECTION 4
Right, DIAS (29), kill the three enemies here
Go up, come back down for MAP 7
Go right and read the Grail glyph (the front side one)
Go right for 10 Spears, right, down, kill all enemies
Grail to 7
Left, left, down, right, DIAS (28), kill all enemies and break the jar
Up, warp, then down for ANKH JEWEL 7
--- Save

NOTES:
-I can see those Sirens being really annoying in the Twin's Labyrinth...


===== SEGMENT 15 =====
C:771 W:28

--- 3 Strat (782), 3-ext Strat (804)
--- 6 Strat (826)
--- 8 Strat (859)
--- 2
Head for 7, getting FROGGER and the DIAS (27) along the way
--- 7
Go down 2 screens to buy the FAKE HAND SCANNER (-150=709)
Go back up to warp, then get PENNANT RACE and 30 Coin (740) on the way back down
Buy the DRAGON BONE (-200=540)
Go left and jump across to the next warp
Go right and buy the LAMP OF TIME (-200=340)
Go back left to the warp, getting HYPER SPORTS 2
Head left, get 10 Coin (351), and buy the SCRIPTURE (-350=1)
--- Save

NOTES:
-End up with 1 Coin at the end! This Coin route is amazing... you'll note that I threw an extra 3-ext Strat in there. Hopefully I'll have gotten enough random Coin drops that I might get away with doing something shorter here.
-This segment also gives me the Lamp of Time. With the Coin grinding calming down soon (only about 1K more Coins are needed, a lot of which will start using the Rear fields), most of my segmenting will take advantage of using the Lamp of Time optimally!


===== SEGMENT 16 =====
C:1 W:27

--- 3 Strat (12)
--- 8 Strat (45)
--- 5
Fall down and get GAME COLLECTION 2
Go left, get the 10 Coin (56)
Go up and get MAHJONG WIZARD (-50=6)
Go left, then all the way up, unlocking Conception Seal and ANTARCTIC ADVENTURE
At the top, dive down to the lava to get the DIAS (26)
--- Save

NOTES:
-Note that this is where I would be getting the Chain Whip if it was required (would require 2 extra Weights, not that big of a deal)
-A short and sweet segment to get the second half of some good MSX combos, and open up Viy. Viy COULD be done in this segment, but is left for the next one for reasons that will become clear...
-I might end up combining the two in the end if I find that Viy isn't as hard as I thought. Still, if the practice run was any indication...


===== SEGMENT 17 =====
C:6 W:26

--- 5
Eqiup Atheletic Land + Cabbage Patch Kids
Go straight to the Ankh and defeat VIY in one cycle
--- Save

NOTES:
-Possibly my shortest segment, this is to deal with the fact that Viy enjoys NOT doing the eye laser on the first cycle, so it pretty much requires some intense luck manipulation.
-Note to self - I need to make sure I have 18 Spears left before this point, 16 for those eyelashes and 2 for the Jar breaking way down in Segment 22.


===== SEGMENT 18 =====
C:6 W:26

--- 0
Right at the start, head right
On the way up, get the SHELL HORN
At the peak, grab the 10 Coin (17)
On the way down, get PR3
Head into ~4
--- ~4
Head straight up, for 10 Coins (28)
Go right, break the block and DIAS (25) for MAP ~4
Go up, equip the Glyph Reader, read the glyph, then go left
Reequip Maze of Galious + Seal of El Giza
Stand on the arm to get A1 SPIRIT and 10 Coin (39)
Go straight up, get 10 Coin (50), equip the Glyph Reader, and read the Grail glpyh
Head right, up, and do the puzzle in 6 orbs (right, left, right, right, left, left) for the MACE
Equip Antarctic Adventure + Comic Bakery, then Grail to ~4
Head left, jumping in right place to unlock the Sage's door
Go left, up the stairs, freeze time, and grab PIPPOLS
--- Save

NOTES:
-Thanks to BlueGlass for this idea - the big idea behind getting Lantern early was to get Pippols this easily. The SS wouldn't even have gone to the Endless Corridor until the next segment!
-Thanks again to BlueGlass to remind me to use the 6 orb strat.


===== SEGMENT 19 =====
C:50 W:25

--- Equip Antarctic Adventure + Comic Bakery, warp to ~4, equip Maze of Galious + Seal of El Giza, jump down to get a total of 30 Coins (83) (hereafter known as the ~4 Strat)
--- 2
Head down to the Controlling Heavens room, hit one, then leave and come back, hit left 5 times for all moons
Go up, left, break the sphere to flood the Tower of the Goddess
Go left for 10 Coin (93), then equip Castlevania + Mahjong Wizard and defeat SAKIT in 4 hits.
--- Save

NOTES:
-This segment starts the mighty ~4 strat.
-Other than that, yet another short Guardian segment. This time, I use my Mace and the aggressive segmenting to defeat Sakit ridiculously fast.


===== SEGMENT 20 =====
C:93 W:25

--- ~4 Strat (123) Don't equip Maze of Galious + Seal of El Giza
Grail to ~4
Head right, through Mace room
Climb past first set of face-turret things using awesome wall kicks
Equip Castlevania + Mahjong Wizard
Make quick work of the face-turrets and get the PLANE MODEL
Go up and right to ~2
--- ~2
Head left and get MOPI RANGER
Head left-up and get the DIAS (24)
Jump down and do the 3 DIAS (21) puzzle, then head up the stairs
Freeze time to beat the sub-guardian and get BOMBS
Equip Maze of Galious + Seal of El Giza
Now jump down and get 10 Coin (134)
Go to ~6
--- ~6
Get the 2 Weights (23)
Go down and get the 5 Bombs, then right for 10 Coin (145)
Keep going right for KONAMI SOCCER and 5 more Bombs
More right for the Grail glyph
Jump down-right and do the 2 DIAS (21) puzzle for the WOMAN STATUE
Now go back left, up for 2 Weights (23) and warp
Left, up, 10 Coins (155), then go through warps for 6
--- 6
Just get the DIAS (22) to unlock the murals
--- Save

NOTES:
-I deliberately avoid using the Lamp of Time in the Tower of Goddess because it's much faster to use it against the annoying teleporting fox guarding the Bombs. That and the climb up the Tower of Goddess looks awesome (although will take many, many restarts, haha...).
-Note that there's 10 Coins to the left of the warp glyph on the Chamber of Birth that I DON'T get because they're inexplicably linked to the 10 Coins in the Tower of the Goddess (so if I get one, the other doesn't show up). I go for the ones in the Tower of the Goddess since they're ridiculously close to the 10 Coins on the screen above (not to mention that it would suck putting on the Maze of Galious + Seal of El Giza for the 1 second trip to the coin, then take them off again most of the time). This also means that I can't farm BOTH jars in a single segment, which stinks since that would have been a great way to get the Coins faster.


===== SEGMENT 21 =====
C:155 W:22

--- ~4 Strat (188) (get the 5 Bombs too)
--- 8 Strat, just the first pot (199)
Now do the clip-wall trick
Go left, up, Bomb through the floor, get 10 Coin (210)
Keep going left for YIE AR KUNG FU 2
--- 3 Strat (221)
Now keep going down to near the ~3 door, then up the stairs
Go right and get KING'S VALLEY
Stay in this room until the Woman Statue gets pregnant
Now go up and Flare the sun face and go to ~3
--- ~3
Get PARODIUS
Now go up and do the series of events to get OCARINA
Go right for 10 Coin (232) and awesome lightning dodge
Now talk to the Sage
--- 4
Go up and left, and while waiting for that elevator, get 10 Coin (243) and GAME COLLECTION 1
Go up the elevator, and jump to the Conception Seal
While waiting for elevator, talk to the Sage
Go up and kill all enemies for LIFE JEWEL 4
--- Save

NOTES:
-A straightforward segment that mostly just sets up the next one.


===== SEGMENT 22 =====
C:243 W:22

--- ~4 Strat (273) (probably get Bombs too) Don't equip Maze of Galious + Seal of El Giza for this one
Warp to ~4
Talk to the Sage
Now climb the right side of the tower as before
On the top, equip Diviner Sensation + Q-Bert, and get the Key Fairy
Go left, stab through with the Keyblade
DIAS (21) when it appears, then go to the door for UNRELEASED ROM
Now go left to ~1
--- ~1
Freeze time and get all the pots on the first pass
Go left, past all the disappearing stairs, then up
Kill the bat (possibly with the help of Castlevania + Mahjong Wizard)
Go right for the FLYWHEEL
--- Save

NOTES:
-The reason for the segment here is because (a) climbing the Tower of the Goddess like that is hard, (b) getting all the pots the first time through the room is harder, and (c) getting a consistent kill on the giant bat is even harder. I suspect this will be another difficult segment to get right.
-Really, does anyone know a FAST way of killing that bat? I'm thinking at this point, as long as I don't fall, that's the segment!
-A note: when I say ~4 Strat WITHOUT Maze of Galious + Seal of El Giza, it's usually because I'm teleporting to another Rear Field right after (sometimes even ~4 again!). What I'll actually do is get the first two 10 coin jars in the normal ~4 Strat, then quickly run to ~6 and get those Coins, and THEN Grail to wherever it is I have to go next. This ends up being slightly faster.


===== SEGMENT 23 =====
C:273 W:21

--- ~4 Strat (303) (probably get Bombs too) Don't equip Maze of Galious + Seal of El Giza till after:
Warp to ~4
Go up the left path
At the very top, get 10 Coins (314) and DIAS (20)
Jump to the right for other DIAS (19) to unlock the Lens
Go back up, to ~6
--- ~6
Get the 2 Weights (21)
Now go right and follow the path
Get the MAP ~6
Now keep going until the big fall, then jump twice and get HEAVEN AND EARTH.
Run right, getting the 10 Coins (325) in the way
Do the Dance of Life, then go right to the warp
Go right, get the 10 Coins (336) (and 2 Weights if necessary), then right warp
Down-right to next warp
Go to the store and buy the ANKH JEWEL 6 (-120=216)
Head left and down to the next warp
Follow the path, getting KING KONG 2 on the way
Finally go through all those warps (and using Bombs) to kill Mudman and get POCHETTE KEY
--- Save

NOTES:
-From watching Jman's live run, I'm thinking it may actually be faster to kill Mudman with Bombs + stabs than it is with the Lamp of Time. We'll have to see if it's repeatable enough for me to try, though.


===== SEGMENT 24 =====
C:216 W:21

--- ~4 Strat (249)
--- 8 Strat, first jar (260)
From here, go right, down, then left
Go up, left and get KONAMI GOLF
Go back and up the stairs to 9
--- 9
Bomb the pillar, then DIAS (20) for DEATH SEAL
--- 3 Strat (271)
Now go on to the TALISMAN
Go down to pass through the DIAS (19) gate to go to 6
--- 6
Go right, jump into the small mural and DIAS (18)
Go down and right, freeze time, hit the switch, and get the LIFE JEWEL 6
Warp to 6
Go right to the Maze of Galious, then up to the upper part of 6
Go right, fall though the floor, then go through the path
On the way, get 10 Coins (282), DIAS (17), and 10 Flares
Quick kill PALENQUE with Flares
--- 0
Talk to Xelpud about the Talisman
--- Save

NOTES:
-Not really sure why the SS takes the other route to the small mural, when this seems way faster.
-Other than that, a straightforward segment.


===== SEGMENT 25 =====
C:282 W:17

Don't bother equipping Maze of Galious + Seal of El Giza for this segment
--- ~4 Strat (312)
--- ~3
Head right, and finally do the 4 DIAS (13) puzzle for the MAP ~3
Now head right and go up to 7
--- 7
Take the elevator straight up to the mini-boss
Take the stairs, and go through the events to unlock the Katana, then fall back down
Go left, kill all witches and wait 30 seconds
Go right, getting USAS on the way
Fall and go left, through warp, then left for 10 Coins (322) and CIRCUS CHARLIE
Go up and fight the mini-boss
Go right and use DIAS (12) to get LIFE JEWEL 7
Quick kill BAPHOMET with Bombs
--- Save

NOTES:
-The three Twin Labirynth segments are the fastest way I could think of to get through it. I had to wait on this last segment to get the Shell Flute and the Bombs.


===== SEGMENT 26 =====
C:322 W:12

--- ~6
Get the 10 Coins (332) and get the PERFUME
--- ~4 Strat (354) (remember I only get 20 of the usual 30 Coins here thanks to ~6)
--- 8 Strat first pot (365)
Then do the wall glitch, go left, equip Glyph Reader, and read the glyph
Run to the right, getting the 100 Coin (465) on the way
Kill the blob of eyes, then the floating eye, then DIAS (11) and go on to 9
--- 9
Go right and get KONAMI BASEBALL
Go down-right and get the Life Seal
Go back in, freeze time, and get the DIARY
--- 0
Talk to Xelpud to get the MULANA TALISMAN
--- Save

NOTES:
-Short and sweet. What better time to try to luck-manipulate the Perfume?


===== SEGMENT 27 =====
C:465 W:11

--- ~4 Strat (498)
--- 8 Strat first pot (509)
Then just go to 9
--- 9
Retrace the steps to the Diary room
Now go left, and get all the seals for LIFE JEWEL 9
Go left, get the Life Seal and the CRYSTAL SKULL, with 10 Coin (520) on the way back
Go right, then down for 10 Coin (531)
Fall and go right for BREAK SHOT
--- Save

NOTES:
-Another short and sweet segment


===== SEGMENT 28 =====
C:531 W:11

--- ~4 Strat (564)
--- 7
Go right, and head up to 9
--- 9
Make the statues angry, then DIAS (10) for MAP 9
Go back down
--- 7
Keep heading right, getting 2 Weights (12)
At the very right, get GANBARE GOEMON, then go back
Go down, right and get the KATANA
Go right, then up to ~8
--- ~8
At this point, will probably have Video Hustler + Break Shot equipped most of the time
Jump in the center of the room to unlock ANKH JEWEL 8 and MAP ~8
Go up, left, fall, kill Child 1
Go back up, get KING'S VALLEY DISK
Go up, kill Child 2, and talk to the last Sage
Go up, get 2 Weights (13), then use one on the DIAS (12) and push left
Kill Child 3 twice, and get GRADIUS 2 BETA
Go up and kill the 3 red demons for first flame
Go right and kill the Child 4
Go right, then left twice and kill the 3 red demons for the second flame
Go down-right for Child 5, and get 10 Coins (574)
Fall down for Child 6
Go right, read the Grail glyph, and use Keyblade on Child 7
Go down twice for Child 8, 5 Bombs, and GRADIUS 2
Now go all the way back to the Grail glyph, and go up for 10 Coins (584) and Child 9
Go up all the way, and freeze time to get LIFE JEWEL 8
Come back down for 10 Coins (594) and kill Child 10
Go down-right for Child 11
Go left to finally kill TIAMAT in two cycles
Get the MAGATAMA JEWEL
Go left twice, and kill the 3 demons for the final flame and ANGEL SHIELD
Now finally go to the 8 door and leave, getting the 10 Coin (604) in the room above it
---8
---Save

NOTES:
-Note that this is where I would be getting the Buckler if it was required (would require some extra grinding here and there).
-The hardest segment yet! I am forced to do the entire Dimensional Corridor in one shot. Not only do I have to kill all of Tiamat's children perfectly, as well as get that tricky Life Jewel on my first try, I then have to two-cycle Tiamat. Fun!


===== SEGMENT 29 =====
C:604 W:12

Equipping Maze of Galious + Seal of El Giza after warping to ~6
--- ~6 Strat (615)
Use Angel Shield to bounce back beam and get CONTAINER
Now go left to 6 door, getting 10 Bombs and 10 Coin (626) on the way
--- 6
Go right, kill Gozu and Mezu
Go up to 0
--- 0
Get the PISTOL
Go on to 5, getting the 10 Coin (637) on the way
--- 5
Get GOONIES
Go on to ~5
--- ~5
Go down the stairs, DIAS (11), then come back up
Go left and fight Nu Wa for the WEDGE
Go right and unlock the Life Seal, then fall
Go left, cast birth on the first fairy
Go left, cast death on the second, then Keyblade the wall for BADLANDS
Go left, cast death on the third
Go fall left, then go up and read the Grail glyph
--- Save

NOTES:
-You'll note I'm unlocking the Red medicine rather than the Yellow. This is due to Hell Temple - since I have to make all three medicines, I want to get Yellow LAST so that it segways nicely into the Mother fight.


===== SEGMENT 30 =====
C:637 W:11

--- 6
Do first part of the strat for 10 Coin (647) and 20 Flares
Go right and get HYPER OLYMPIC 1
--- 8 Strat (680)
During the strat, read the Mantra, and chant it
After this, don't bother equipping Maze of Galious + Seal of El Giza for the rest of the run
--- 3
Go left to 5
--- 5
Get HYPER OLYMPIC 3
Go left-up and get 10 Coin (690), FIREBIRD, and MAP 5
Go up to 7
--- 7
Head right, getting 10 Coin (700)
Use Flares and Bombs to get PENGUIN ADVENTURE
Continue to go right, going through 2 DIASES (9)
Fall through the ground and read the Mantra
Keep going right and take the bottom path with 10 Coin (710)
Go through 2 more DIASES (7) and get KONAMI PING-PONG
Now keep going right and chant the Mantra
--- 3 Strat (720)
Now fall down and go left for 10 Coin (730)
Unlock the shop using a DIAS (6) and Death Seal, then buy AMMUNITION (-400=330)
--- Save

NOTES:
-Nice and short, but there's quite a few tricky maneuvers to be pulled off here.


===== SEGMENT 31 =====
C:330 W:6

--- ~6 Strat (340)
Go on to 6, getting 10 Coin (350) and 5 Bombs
--- 6
Read the Mantra
--- ~6
Fall down and go to the other ~6 entrance via DIAS (5), get GR3 first, then go chant the Mantra
Grail to ~6
Head to 6 again
--- 6
Head to 0
--- 0
Head to 5, getting the 10 Coin (360)
--- 5
Head left and read the Mantra
--- ~5
Fall straight down-left, katana the block, then shop for KNIGHTMARE (-200=160)
Go left, kill the 2 Black Dogs for MAP ~5
Grail to ~5
Go down use Spears to get SHIN SYNTHESIZER
Fall down and go right for RUINS RAM 16K
Grail to ~5
Fall down and go left, freeze time, and kill 2 invisible enemies
Go use the DIAS (4), and chant the Mantra
--- ~4 Strat, first two coins (180)
In the middle of the strat, go left to ~5
--- ~5
Just get the RED MEDICINE and leave
-- ~4
After the Coin strat, go down to read the Mantra
Grail to ~4
Head right, go through Mace room, and on the next, chant the Mantra
Fall down, and go through all left entrances to unlock GRADIUS
--- Save

NOTES:
-At this point, it's worth noting that I pretty much have all the Coins I need to buy everything else that's left. Obviously, due to random pickups on the way, I'll probably have quite a bit more than I expected, so presumably I would have left out some of the grinding up to this point.
-I may turn this into 2 segments if it ends up being too hard to get a consistent time.


===== SEGMENT 32 =====
C:180 W:4

--- 3 Strat (190)
Now go read the Mantra
--- ~6 Strat (200)
--- ~3
Go right and jump down, then head way to the right
Use Bombs to unlock the shop and buy the BRACELET (-200=0)
Go left, unlock the Birth Seal
Go down, left, chant the Mantra, use DIAS (3) and get the BOOK OF THE DEAD (there's 2 Weights here if needed)
--- ~2
Head down-right to the wall and Bomb through it
Head right, taking the bottom path, to get SPACE MANBOW
Get the 5 Bombs if needed
Go up and read the Mantra
Grail to ~2
Fall down and chant Mantra
--- 8
Head right for the 16 Weights (19)
--- Save

NOTES:
-A short segment (although I'm sure getting the positioning for unlocking the shop with the Bombs will take quite a few tries, haha), to prepare for the one that's coming...
-There's a very high probability that the ~6 Strat won't need to happen, given the extra Coins I'll get from enemies.
-With awesome math, I'm left at exactly 0 coins when buying the Bracelet. All that's left is the 30 Coins for the Ruins RAM 8K, which I'll get over the course of the next few segments.
-You'll notice that I waited until now to make a 16 Weight run (and I make another on the next segment). The reason for this is that I tend to pick up so many random Weights across the game that I may not need to do this one and/or the next one. This is also why I didn't stop getting all those Weight jars in the way - to increase the chances of this happening. In the end I may just end up needing to grind on the Guidance Gate for the last few segments if it turns out that that's how few I need. We'll just have to wait and see. (FYI, this is also why I didn't note the 10 Coins I get there, since I can't count on getting them for sure.)


===== SEGMENT 33 =====
C:0 W:19

--- 1
Go to Duracuets
Automatically fall, then get MAHJONG DOJO
Grail to 1
Head from the Mantra, getting the easy 10 Coin (10) on the way
Go read the Mantra
--- 0
Head to the statue and get METAL GEAR
Sleep in front of the statue
Go left and talk to Xelpud
Now go right all the way up to the top, and get KONAMI PINBALL
Go right and shoot the land under the waterfall for NEMESIS 3
Now jump down and talk to the Fairy
--- ~1
Chant the Mantra
Go left and equip Diviner Sensation + Q-Bert and get the Key Fairy
Break the floor with the Katana
Go down and use the Key Fairy to get the BODY ARMOR
Grail to ~1
Fall down and let Key Fairy show the door to Duracuets, then enter
--- 5
Jump down-left, go past Viy's chamber
Fall 20 screens, then talk to Duracuets
--- 6
Go right, though Maze of Galious to the north area
Head for Palenque's chamber, getting the DIAS (18) on the way
Jump in to the mural
--- 4
Talk to Duracuets
--- 8
Head right to the 16 Weights (34)
--- Save

NOTES:
-It looks like I can't Grail at all during the "Night" scene, or the Surface reverts back to daytime. So I'm forced to walk everywhere. Which is fine, since this is a perfect chance to mop up what's left on the Surface.
-At this point, I'm still getting money for Ruins RAM 8K, missing 2 Maps (2 and ~2), and 5 MSX Cartridges (2 of them being in the True Shrine of the Mother), as well as the Eye of Truth. I'll mop them all up after completing Hell Temple.
-And another 16 Weight trip, this one has a high probability of being unnecessary.


===== SEGMENT 34 =====
C:10 W:34

--- 1
Go to Hell Temple
--- H
Go through the temple to Floor 8
Floor 3 has 5 DIASES (29)
Floor 5 has 1 DIAS (28)
Floor 6 has 1 DIAS (27)
(Floor 7 has 2 Weights if needed)
Now fall left to go to Floor 9
There, go down the stairs and jump through the first invisible floor (going right) and get the DIAS (26)
Now go left and fall to Land of Hell 1, sleep there
--- Save

NOTES:
-This is actually not quite the fastest way to Hell Temple (you can fall in to Land of Hell 1 when you visit 3, then climb back out), but I definitely need 2 segments for the first trip. Plus, it doesn't waste THAT much time since I'd have to kill all the enemies in Land of Hell 1 and climb back out anyway.


===== SEGMENT 35 =====
C:10 W:26

--- 1
Go to Hell Temple
--- H
Go to Floor 1, then shortcut to Floor 9
Finish Floor 9 properly, requiring another DIAS (25)
Go on to Floor 13
Here, fall through to Land of Hell 2, sleep there, defeat all enemies (with the help of Lamp of Time), then come back up and head for Floor 14
Floor 13 has a DIAS (24)
On 14, fall through the lava to Floor 20, read the glyph there, then go back up and on to Floor 18
Floor 15 has 8 DIASES (16)
Floor 17 has a DIAS (15)
Floor 18 has 5 DIASES (10)
(Floor 19 has 2 Weights if needed)
Here, fall through to Land of Hell 3, sleep there, defeat all enemies, then come back up and head to Floor 32
On Floor 21, after killing all enemies, go back to get a Key Fairy for Room 23 (the 2 Weights in that room are good candidates if missing just a few Weights)
Floor 24 has a DIAS (9), then 10 Coin (20)
Floor 29 has 3 DIASES (6)
Floor 30 has a DIAS (5)
Floor 31 has a DIAS (4)
On Floor 32, kill all enemies and wait in the water, then push the Red block to its proper place
--- Save

NOTES:
-This segment will be "fun"! Smiley Really though, I can think of no other segment that will be as difficult as this one.


===== SEGMENT 36 =====
C:20 W:4

--- ~8
Talk to the Sage to reset the Medicine
Go to the 8 door and immediately Grail to ~4
--- ~4
Fall straight through to ~5
--- ~5
Head left, cast Death on the right fairy, Birth on the middle fairy
Grail to ~5
Cast Death on the fairies
--- ~4
Fall straight through to ~5
--- ~5
Get the GREEN MEDICINE
--- 2
Go up, left, then up to the top
Go left, and DIAS (3), then stab open the left wall
Go left, then drop and go right to DIAS (2), and GAME COLLECTION 3
Now fall down and tend right for the MAP 2
Now head right, through the lower path, and fall through the trap door
Go to the door to ~2
--- ~2
Head right
Kill the mage and double jump to get MAP ~2
--- Save

NOTES:
-Note that this is where I would be getting the Silver Shield if it was required.
-Since just getting the Medicines would be such short segments, I use this time to get all of the other random items I'm missing that don't really fit in to the path of the other segments. I get half of them now and half of them later.
-In other news, I finally mop up the Mausoleum of the Giants (could've done that a LONG time ago!) and get the last Maps I needed.


===== SEGMENT 37 =====
C:20 W:2

--- 1
Go to Hell Temple
--- H
Go to Floor 1, then shortcut to Floor 9
Now just head to Floor 28
Here, read the glpyh and fall through to Floor 21
Kill all enemies, read the glyph, then equip GR3 + PR3 and get 120,000 points in PR3
Now head to Floor 32, getting the 10 Coin (30) in Floor 24
Here, kill all enemies and wait in the water, then push the Red block to its proper place
--- Save

NOTES:
-I find it ironic that the hardest part of this segment will be not PR3, but doing the damned wall of spikes on the first try. Smiley Still, this segment will be easy compared to Segment 35.
-I now have all the Coins I need! I'll use them on the next segment.


===== SEGMENT 38 =====
C:30 W:2

--- ~8
Talk to the Sage to reset the Medicine
Go to the 8 door and immediately Grail to ~4
--- ~4
Jump left, and use DIAS (1) for LENS OF TRUTH
Grail to ~4
Fall straight through to ~5
--- ~5
Head left, cast Death on the first two fairies
Grail to ~5
Cast Birth on the fairies
--- ~4
Fall straight through to ~5
--- ~5
Get the YELLOW MEDICINE
--- ~3
Go up to the stairs that lead to ~1, then jump off the left side to the right and fall down
Go left and get PENNANT RACE 2
--- 4
Go up, right, then fall, and bomb left wall for SHALOM
--- 0
Head left and buy the RUINS RAM 8K (-30=0)
--- Save

NOTES:
-Finally, I have bought everything I need, and have almost all the items need for 100%!
-Observant viewers will notice that I'm forced into getting 10 Coins on the next Hell Temple segment, therefore I COULD in theory save a few milliseconds by buying one of the items later, and not have an extra 10 Coins at the end of the run. However, I will be so jittery at the end of the next segment (and too annoyed at the start of the next, final segment) that I'll probably lose those milliseconds in fumbling around the menus, haha...


===== SEGMENT 39 =====
C:DONE W:1

--- 1
Go to Hell Temple
--- H
Go to Floor 1, then shortcut to Floor 9
Now just head to Floor 32
Here, kill all enemies and wait in the water, then push the Yellow block to its proper place
Head left, kill The Boss with Flares
Head left-up, get the SKIMPY SWIMSUIT
--- Save

NOTES:
-The last Hell Temple segment is also the easiest.
-As I mentioned before, if I can get the Skimpy Swimsuit cutscene skip perfectly, that'd be sweet.


===== SEGMENT 40 =====
C:DONE W:1

--- 8
Just head to ~9
--- ~9
Go down, then left for the final DIAS (0)
Go right, right, then down
Now follow the straightforward path to Beelzebub
Kill Beelzebub
Go left, up, then right for SNATCHER
Left, left, down, down for SD SNATCHER
Now follow the straightforward path to Mother
Unlock all 4 Seals, then hit the giant Ankh with the Keyblade
Defeat MOTHER
--- The End

NOTES:
-I actually have no idea what is the absolute fastest way to kill Beelzebub. I might have to play it by ear depending on what subweapons I happen to have left at this time, since it will have been a while since the last time I grinded.
-It's absolustely awesome that I finish with 0 Weights - shows how well they're managed in the plan. Of course, due to all the random Weight drops it probably won't end up that way!
-Other than that, this marks the end of the run!


...Phew, that's that!

Wow, it feels weird to say, but (especially since the choice of getting the optional items doesn't come in for the first few segments) I can start recording now! Hopefully I'll be posting Segment 1 soon! Smiley
Anonymous52555
2011-05-30 06:22:39 pm
Metroidvanias are God Tier
sweet you finally got the route all planned out. Can't wait to see the segments. Grin Now I just need to actually finish segment 1 Sad
BlueGlass
2011-05-30 09:52:36 pm
Yep yep yep!
During segment 3, if you open the shop while falling down to the glove, you won't need to wait around when you come back with the key fairy.

You mention grabbing PR3 on the way to Tower of the Goddess; why not get it while opening up Hell Temple?

In segment 9, rather than backtracking to Hyper Rally, couldn't you hit the left dais, get the rom, grail to 1, then hit the right dais?  I don't think it's any time lost, and it saves a weight.

About Maze of Galleous, you can save time in there by waiting until you have spears; in room C-6 on the wiki map, a ladder appears when you kill all the enemies.

Another thing I'm curious about is why you're waiting so long for the life seal, 200 coins, and 20 weights.  You could buy MSX2 and talk to the fairy at the start of segment 7, get the treasure and Athletic Land, then get the life seal and open Maze of Galleous, then kill Algol, taking advantage of Athletic Land+Cabbage Patch Kids to speed up the fight, and finally grab the feather, coins, and weights while you're right there.

Looking at segment 12 and thinking ahead a while, you'll have to be in upper Tower of Ruin again later when it's time to get Knightmare, so why not clear out the lower part earlier using the Graveyard entrance, right after you grab the gauntlet?  You can still kill Shu here and get road fighter and endless key, plus since it's a short segment, you can move the lizard to here to luck manipulate for a very low time loss.

Segment 13, when you're clearing out the rooms for the ankh jewel, grailing wastes time.  Just climb the ladder up from the room where the jewel appears and use the warp to get to the other side.  Also, something worth testing is to see if it's faster to reach frogger and the dais in Mausoleum by going up the ladder from Labyrinths.  And keep in mind that if any of my suggestions require too much alteration to your coin route, there's still the 100 pot in Endless Corridor.

Segment 17.  No no no no NO!  The mace puzzle only requires 6 gems: right, left, right, right, left, left, then stand on the right.  I'm positive I've mentioned this at least once or twice in the past, plus it's on the wiki.

In segment 18, remember that you can use spears to hit the sun/moon/star and save the time of actually jumping down there.  If you're low, you can always grab one more set of spears in segment 15; those things are everywhere in Inferno Cavern.

For segment 19, if you don't mind even more countless resets, you can actually damage boos your way up most of the Tower of the Goddess screen before Airplane Model.  It happened to me once by pure luck: a bat boosted me onto the first ledge, then the flying thingie boosted me to the second.  And great find that time lamp works on Kamaitachi (who's actually a weasel).  And that bit about the two coin pots being linked is seriously weird.

segment 21, is it really faster to climb the tower than going through Graveyard?  Wait, never mind, I guess it would be, only it's also a thousand times harder.  And it might just be me, but I don't remember one-cycling the pots being too hard when I first tested it.  As for a reliable way to kill the giant bat, the only thing I've seen is what the RTA does, something that would actually end up costing time to replicate since it uses the time lamp.

Wouldn't it make sense to grab the perfume at the start of segment 22 (or just give it its own segment)?  IIRC there are some skeletons in CHamber of Birth that tend to get in your way.  About the giant mudman, I'm pretty sure his movement pattern is completely random (like soooo many of the enemies in this game).  So time lamp is maybe 2-3 seconds slower than an optimal fight, but it's consistent.  Keep in mind that you'd probably want to CV+Mahjong Wizard mace instead of knifing.

A note on segment 29: when entering Inferno Cavern through Sun Temple, jumping quickly enough lets you go straight through the forst room without waiting for the platform.  I wasn't sure if you knew this, so I decided to mention it.

If you do use the weight trip in segment 31, you should wait until after you have the bracelet.  Also, for opening the shop, you can toss bombs into the ceiling instead of through the hole; the spot you need to hit is near the left side of the destructible block.

All that said, I really like your route, and you did a great job planning it.  I hope my suggestions won't mess it up too much.
TheMaxican
2011-05-31 02:30:37 am
Break through the final confusion
Quote from BlueGlass:
During segment 3, if you open the shop while falling down to the glove, you won't need to wait around when you come back with the key fairy.

Actually, I have to wait a year and a half for the Fairy to open up the new shop anyway, so I just take the time to do it on the way up. It literally wastes no time since I'd otherwise just be standing there waiting (on the other hand, if I open it while I'm falling, I'll lose the momemtum).

Quote from BlueGlass:
You mention grabbing PR3 on the way to Tower of the Goddess; why not get it while opening up Hell Temple?

That's a great question! I actually tested this; unfortunately, the tent is closed in nighttime. So yeah, there's no other good time to get it, unfortunately.

Quote from BlueGlass:
In segment 9, rather than backtracking to Hyper Rally, couldn't you hit the left dais, get the rom, grail to 1, then hit the right dais?  I don't think it's any time lost, and it saves a weight.

You know, I never thought of that! That's definitely what I'm doing then.

Quote from BlueGlass:
About Maze of Galleous, you can save time in there by waiting until you have spears; in room C-6 on the wiki map, a ladder appears when you kill all the enemies.

I think it's because this whole time, in my mind, getting the Life Seal and doing Maze of Galious have been one and the same. Now that I think about it, it doesn't waste THAT much time to go to the Maze later.
So I could get the Gauntlet, THEN the Life Seal, THEN do the Spears thing, THEN do Maze of Galious... hmm...
Alternately, I don't have to even wait for the Gauntlet then, as your next point shows.

Quote from BlueGlass:
Another thing I'm curious about is why you're waiting so long for the life seal, 200 coins, and 20 weights.  You could buy MSX2 and talk to the fairy at the start of segment 7, get the treasure and Athletic Land, then get the life seal and open Maze of Galleous, then kill Algol, taking advantage of Athletic Land+Cabbage Patch Kids to speed up the fight, and finally grab the feather, coins, and weights while you're right there.

Because I really REALLY want to have the Gauntlet before then. The Gauntlet saves a LOT of time in the Maze of Galious (not to mention just opening the hidden path with the Axe takes forever). Also I don't think Athletic Land+Cabbage Patch Kids will save much time with the Algol, it's all about where you stand during that fight.
However, if I do what I said above and get the Life Seal first, THEN the Gauntlet, THEN the Maze, this might end up being faster overall. Hmm... lemme play around with that...
I DO agree that it'd be nice if I got the 200 Coins while I'm already there getting the Feather.

Quote from BlueGlass:
Looking at segment 12 and thinking ahead a while, you'll have to be in upper Tower of Ruin again later when it's time to get Knightmare, so why not clear out the lower part earlier using the Graveyard entrance, right after you grab the gauntlet?  You can still kill Shu here and get road fighter and endless key, plus since it's a short segment, you can move the lizard to here to luck manipulate for a very low time loss.

This is a very interesting idea, and I could even save on a Weight since I never have to come in from ~1. However, the route going from bottom to top is a LOT slower than top to bottom, for three reasons - the Map, the Grail glyph, and Ruins RAM 16K. The last one is the main reason for the annoyance - I can't, by definition, get Ruins RAM 16K on the way up, so I'd have to take a big detour to come get it (probably after going up to read the Grail Glyph).
...Still, I'll test it out and let you know what I find.

Quote from BlueGlass:
Segment 13, when you're clearing out the rooms for the ankh jewel, grailing wastes time.  Just climb the ladder up from the room where the jewel appears and use the warp to get to the other side.  Also, something worth testing is to see if it's faster to reach frogger and the dais in Mausoleum by going up the ladder from Labyrinths.  And keep in mind that if any of my suggestions require too much alteration to your coin route, there's still the 100 pot in Endless Corridor.

I tested it and it was very, very slightly faster to Grail (at least, going from the right one to the left one). Not to mention I'll probably be near the bottom of the screen, which adds to the time of climbing back up.

Interesting thought on Frogger. However, given that it's so fast to go to Frogger and then head over to the Fake Scanner + Dragon Bone (and not so fast the other way around), it's hard to beat the current plan in that regard.

Oh, and I DO get the 100 pot in the Endless Corridor (Segment 25). (Oh... I just realized I didn't include it in the "digest" at the top, I'll fix that...) Unless you just meant if I needed the coins earlier, then never mind.

Quote from BlueGlass:
Segment 17.  No no no no NO!  The mace puzzle only requires 6 gems: right, left, right, right, left, left, then stand on the right.  I'm positive I've mentioned this at least once or twice in the past, plus it's on the wiki.

Haha, yes, that's right! This is a bit embarrassing, but I normally do it the 6 gem way. It's just that while I was writing up the plan, I got to that point and realized I didn't know the strat, so I went to the Wiki and followed the nice picture, not remembering that it was actually the SLOWER route that was pictured! Haha, hopefully I would have caught that! Anyway, I'll fix it. Smiley

Quote from BlueGlass:
In segment 18, remember that you can use spears to hit the sun/moon/star and save the time of actually jumping down there.  If you're low, you can always grab one more set of spears in segment 15; those things are everywhere in Inferno Cavern.

Yes, it's a good thing to keep in mind!

Quote from BlueGlass:
For segment 19, if you don't mind even more countless resets, you can actually damage boos your way up most of the Tower of the Goddess screen before Airplane Model.  It happened to me once by pure luck: a bat boosted me onto the first ledge, then the flying thingie boosted me to the second.  And great find that time lamp works on Kamaitachi (who's actually a weasel).  And that bit about the two coin pots being linked is seriously weird.

That's pretty much what I'm planning to do, only I think the way I do it now is fairly consistent and doesn't require damage boosts (although I do use them if I get the chance). It's hard to describe it - you'll see it though, it looks awesome!

And yeah, I don't know what to make about the linked coin pots. It's just sad more than anything.

Quote from BlueGlass:
segment 21, is it really faster to climb the tower than going through Graveyard?  Wait, never mind, I guess it would be, only it's also a thousand times harder.  And it might just be me, but I don't remember one-cycling the pots being too hard when I first tested it.  As for a reliable way to kill the giant bat, the only thing I've seen is what the RTA does, something that would actually end up costing time to replicate since it uses the time lamp.

What do you mean, through the Graveyard? It's impossible to reach the area with the Flywheel (and thus, the big bat and pots) unless you go through the Tower... right?

Oh, I know it's not THAT hard, but try doing it with all the nervousness of finally having gotten up the Tower without the Lamp of Time. Smiley

Yeah, me and that bat aren't going to have good times...

Quote from BlueGlass:
Wouldn't it make sense to grab the perfume at the start of segment 22 (or just give it its own segment)?  IIRC there are some skeletons in CHamber of Birth that tend to get in your way.  About the giant mudman, I'm pretty sure his movement pattern is completely random (like soooo many of the enemies in this game).  So time lamp is maybe 2-3 seconds slower than an optimal fight, but it's consistent.  Keep in mind that you'd probably want to CV+Mahjong Wizard mace instead of knifing.

On the Perfume, I actually didn't really know when to get it so I just put it in a segment that I already knew was really fast. I don't see it really saving time since I'm never really needing to kill any Skeletons, since they always crumble after the first hit so I can just slide right past them anyway.

Yeah, that's what I figured on Mudman. We'll find out when I start trying attempts, I guess.

Quote from BlueGlass:
A note on segment 29: when entering Inferno Cavern through Sun Temple, jumping quickly enough lets you go straight through the forst room without waiting for the platform.  I wasn't sure if you knew this, so I decided to mention it.

Yes, I knew that one! Thanks, though. It's fun to do!

Quote from BlueGlass:
If you do use the weight trip in segment 31, you should wait until after you have the bracelet.  Also, for opening the shop, you can toss bombs into the ceiling instead of through the hole; the spot you need to hit is near the left side of the destructible block.

Haha, I totally forgot about the Bracelet! Yeah, I think I'll push the weight trips until AFTER the Bracelet, thanks.

Hmm, not sure if I know what you mean on opening up the shop, can you explain a bit more?

Quote from BlueGlass:
All that said, I really like your route, and you did a great job planning it.  I hope my suggestions won't mess it up too much.

Haha, don't worry about that! And thanks, as you can probably tell, I like to be very thorough, at the expense of taking forever to finish. Smiley
TheMaxican
TheMaxican
Edit history:
TheMaxican: 2011-05-31 05:38:33 am
2011-05-31 05:32:03 am
Break through the final confusion
Updated the route with BlueGlass' suggestions. The two I still have to test and plan out:
-Get Life Seal before Gauntlet (allows getting 20 Weights/200 Coins right after Feather, and Spears for Maze of Galious)
-Do the Tower of Ruin right after the Gauntlet

Anyway, I have a bit of a suprise for everyone:

Segment 1:


My first segment turned out to be quite the trail by fire! Getting the Weight drop from the first birds killed like 75% of the runs right there, and then I had to play perfectly for 7 minutes only hope that those two bats in the Temple of the Sun decided to cooperate. Anyway, I'm happy with the result, as the errors are only minor (and I can't really NOT have errors in a 7 minute segment, especially in this game, haha...)

Segment 2:


This segment ended up being much harder than I thought - there's just a lot of little maneuvers that all have to go correctly, and then you have to NOT have bats and ghosts randomly smack you around. Smiley Anyway, the real reason it was so hard was because I really REALLY wanted a Weight drop here, since getting it during Segment 3 would be brutal. After many hours, I finally got the attempt you see here. The only two glaring errors are (a) getting hit the wrong way by the yellow knight after that switch under the Map chest (no biggie, it's tricky to time anyway), and (b) realizing I was at the elevator way earlier than usual, then trying not to land on it, and hitting myself on the spikes as a result. Luckily it knocked me pretty close to the other stairs leading to the Controlling the Heavens room, so it wasn't THAT bad. It DID cause me to miss the first hit on the center pillar, but what are you gonna do... in the end, the segment went much better than usual AND I got my Weight, so I'm happy. Smiley

So yeah, given that these are my first "official" speed runs, I'd appreciate any comments! Also let me know if you have questions on anything I did, as I'll of course have a novel of run comments that I'm just sparing you guys on for now. Smiley
Oh, and random YouTube questions for those who've done this before: should I put a blank StatID on the videos for now? And should I keep them public, or just unlisted?

Alright! On to Segment 3... although that one will be a toughy, so don't expect it soon...

EDIT: Forgot to explain that the reason I leave it on the file load screen in the end (since timing has already stopped) is just to make it easier on the verifiers - thanks to the timestamps, it's easy to tell that the segment I just saved is the same as the one I start on the next one.
BlueGlass
2011-05-31 06:29:23 am
Yep yep yep!
Quote from TheMaxican:
Quote from BlueGlass:
During segment 3, if you open the shop while falling down to the glove, you won't need to wait around when you come back with the key fairy.

Actually, I have to wait a year and a half for the Fairy to open up the new shop anyway, so I just take the time to do it on the way up. It literally wastes no time since I'd otherwise just be standing there waiting (on the other hand, if I open it while I'm falling, I'll lose the momemtum).

That's my point.  If the first shop is already unlocked, the fairy will immediately get to work when you enter the screen, and the second shop should open around the same time you reach it.

Quote from TheMaxican:
Quote from BlueGlass:
You mention grabbing PR3 on the way to Tower of the Goddess; why not get it while opening up Hell Temple?

That's a great question! I actually tested this; unfortunately, the tent is closed in nighttime. So yeah, there's no other good time to get it, unfortunately.

Quote from BlueGlass:
In segment 9, rather than backtracking to Hyper Rally, couldn't you hit the left dais, get the rom, grail to 1, then hit the right dais?  I don't think it's any time lost, and it saves a weight.

You know, I never thought of that! That's definitely what I'm doing then.

Too bad about the tent being closed, and I'm glad I could help!

Quote from TheMaxican:
Quote from BlueGlass:
About Maze of Galleous, you can save time in there by waiting until you have spears; in room C-6 on the wiki map, a ladder appears when you kill all the enemies.

I think it's because this whole time, in my mind, getting the Life Seal and doing Maze of Galious have been one and the same. Now that I think about it, it doesn't waste THAT much time to go to the Maze later.
So I could get the Gauntlet, THEN the Life Seal, THEN do the Spears thing, THEN do Maze of Galious... hmm...
Alternately, I don't have to even wait for the Gauntlet then, as your next point shows.

Quote from BlueGlass:
Another thing I'm curious about is why you're waiting so long for the life seal, 200 coins, and 20 weights.  You could buy MSX2 and talk to the fairy at the start of segment 7, get the treasure and Athletic Land, then get the life seal and open Maze of Galleous, then kill Algol, taking advantage of Athletic Land+Cabbage Patch Kids to speed up the fight, and finally grab the feather, coins, and weights while you're right there.

Because I really REALLY want to have the Gauntlet before then. The Gauntlet saves a LOT of time in the Maze of Galious (not to mention just opening the hidden path with the Axe takes forever). Also I don't think Athletic Land+Cabbage Patch Kids will save much time with the Algol, it's all about where you stand during that fight.
However, if I do what I said above and get the Life Seal first, THEN the Gauntlet, THEN the Maze, this might end up being faster overall. Hmm... lemme play around with that...
I DO agree that it'd be nice if I got the 200 Coins while I'm already there getting the Feather.


Keep in mind that you can do Maze of Galleous whenever you want, since it's just right of the grail point (though the sooner the beter).

Quote from TheMaxican:
Quote from BlueGlass:
Looking at segment 12 and thinking ahead a while, you'll have to be in upper Tower of Ruin again later when it's time to get Knightmare, so why not clear out the lower part earlier using the Graveyard entrance, right after you grab the gauntlet?  You can still kill Shu here and get road fighter and endless key, plus since it's a short segment, you can move the lizard to here to luck manipulate for a very low time loss.

This is a very interesting idea, and I could even save on a Weight since I never have to come in from ~1. However, the route going from bottom to top is a LOT slower than top to bottom, for three reasons - the Map, the Grail glyph, and Ruins RAM 16K. The last one is the main reason for the annoyance - I can't, by definition, get Ruins RAM 16K on the way up, so I'd have to take a big detour to come get it (probably after going up to read the Grail Glyph).
...Still, I'll test it out and let you know what I find.


Grail point can be gotten after your first time with the faries, and map at the same time as Knightmare.  As for the rom, I think you can just leave the screen and come back, and it'll be grabbable; you'd need to test that though.

Quote from TheMaxican:
Quote from BlueGlass:
segment 21, is it really faster to climb the tower than going through Graveyard?  Wait, never mind, I guess it would be, only it's also a thousand times harder.  And it might just be me, but I don't remember one-cycling the pots being too hard when I first tested it.  As for a reliable way to kill the giant bat, the only thing I've seen is what the RTA does, something that would actually end up costing time to replicate since it uses the time lamp.

What do you mean, through the Graveyard? It's impossible to reach the area with the Flywheel (and thus, the big bat and pots) unless you go through the Tower... right?


I meant warp to the Graveyard and go through the area where you get bombs, then enter from the top right of the tower; both Jman and the RTA do this when going for the flywheel.  But it is probably more than a bit slower as opposed to a good tower climb.

Oh, something I just thought of, why not move grabbing the Eye of Truth to here or earlier?  It'll take the same amount of time whenever you grab it, and this way you'll actually get some kind of use out of it.

Quote from TheMaxican:
Quote from BlueGlass:
If you do use the weight trip in segment 31, you should wait until after you have the bracelet.  Also, for opening the shop, you can toss bombs into the ceiling instead of through the hole; the spot you need to hit is near the left side of the destructible block.

Haha, I totally forgot about the Bracelet! Yeah, I think I'll push the weight trips until AFTER the Bracelet, thanks.

Hmm, not sure if I know what you mean on opening up the shop, can you explain a bit more?


I mean that instead of tossing bombs up through the gap in the right side of the ceiling, you can throw them at the ceiling directly beneath the block.  If you do it in the right place, the block will still be in the damage radius.  Does that help?  If not, I'll post a picture.

Moving on, comments on the segments as I'm watching them.  Amazing that you've already gotten them out this fast.

That damage boost after the first life jewel was neat, and something I can't remember seeing before.  Plus, purpousely getting hit by the lightning for a boost?  Awesome.

I cringed when you fell just short of jumping to the Grail (I'm assuming that jump is actually makeable)

When jumping back up the sword/shield/helmet/armor room, I think it's slightly faster to stop and jump to the right ledge, rather than making the extra jump once you get to the top.

I like the way you got the Knife; that one cat has the annoying habit of hitting you back across the screen transition, but you just bypass it entirely by walking through while invincible.

Awesome watching you take out the bats while falling.

Great shuriken management, having exactly the 8 you need for segment 2

And segment 2 was pretty much all amazing.  It's so easy to get hit in some of those rooms, between the ghosts and the bats and everthing else.
TheMaxican
2011-05-31 06:53:22 am
Break through the final confusion
Quote from BlueGlass:
That's my point.  If the first shop is already unlocked, the fairy will immediately get to work when you enter the screen, and the second shop should open around the same time you reach it.

No no, the fairy gets to work as soon as you enter that screen, whether or not the store is unlocked. In fact, if you don't hit the seal, the non-existent store will suddenly appear closed, and door to the new shop will come out BEHIND the seal. So then as soon as you unlock the seal, you can enter the store.

So you see, it makes no difference whether or not the store is there when the Key Fairy comes around. Smiley

Quote from BlueGlass:
Grail point can be gotten after your first time with the faries, and map at the same time as Knightmare.  As for the rom, I think you can just leave the screen and come back, and it'll be grabbable; you'd need to test that though.

Ah, good point on the grail point, didn't think of that. For Ruins RAM 16K, you actually have to leave at least 2 screens away, I remember from when I was trying to get it my first time. Smiley It's similar to how a good portion of the game's room don't reload enemies unless you're 2 screens away (the Tower of the Goddess climb comes to mind, haha...)

Quote from BlueGlass:
I meant warp to the Graveyard and go through the area where you get bombs, then enter from the top right of the tower; both Jman and the RTA do this when going for the flywheel.  But it is probably more than a bit slower as opposed to a good tower climb.

Oh, something I just thought of, why not move grabbing the Eye of Truth to here or earlier?  It'll take the same amount of time whenever you grab it, and this way you'll actually get some kind of use out of it.

Oooh, ok, got it. For a second there I thought you meant you could get there directly from inside Confusion Gate. Smiley Yeah, it's much faster to climb the wall, the way I do it.
Actually, the Eye of Truth turns out to be pretty useless for when I'm climbing - like I said, I already have it down to a strat. Still, I could squeeze it in if it becomes an issue.

Quote from BlueGlass:
I mean that instead of tossing bombs up through the gap in the right side of the ceiling, you can throw them at the ceiling directly beneath the block.  If you do it in the right place, the block will still be in the damage radius.  Does that help?  If not, I'll post a picture.

Interesting, I tried but I couldn't get that to work. I'll mess around with it. A picture is always helpful I suppose, as long as it's not too much trouble. Smiley

Quote from BlueGlass:
Moving on, comments on the segments as I'm watching them.  Amazing that you've already gotten them out this fast.

Eh, I got excited. Smiley Don't get used to it though, I was able to take advantage of this thanks to the holiday weekend. Hopefully there's not TOO much time between segments from now on...

Haha, I just realized everyone can tell how long a segment took to make by the timestamps on the save file. Oh well.

Quote from BlueGlass:
That damage boost after the first life jewel was neat, and something I can't remember seeing before.  Plus, purpousely getting hit by the lightning for a boost?  Awesome.

I actually discovered both of them today. For some reason I couldn't get the damage boost after the life jewel to work before, but now I can get it pretty much every time. And on the lightning, sometimes the lightning won't hit you, which is slower but is definitely cooler looking, haha...

Quote from BlueGlass:
I cringed when you fell just short of jumping to the Grail (I'm assuming that jump is actually makeable)

The jump itself, no, otherwise I would've restarted until I got it. What IS possible is to land on the yellow blob in the way that damage boosts you to the Grail. This is, however, ridiculously difficult to time thanks not only to the OTHER yellow blob (which tends to synchronize with the other one so that you can't do it), but also thanks to the bats, of course. Smiley
Yeah, I think I only got it like once or twice in all my attempts. Definitely not consistent enough make it a requirement, especially given all the other crap you have to put up with on the first segment.

Quote from BlueGlass:
When jumping back up the sword/shield/helmet/armor room, I think it's slightly faster to stop and jump to the right ledge, rather than making the extra jump once you get to the top.

I found that if I do that, I tend to miss the jumps more often. Smiley It's just harder to get into rhythm for some reason. And yeah, it's not TOO much faster I don't think.

Quote from BlueGlass:
I like the way you got the Knife; that one cat has the annoying habit of hitting you back across the screen transition, but you just bypass it entirely by walking through while invincible.

Luckily the cats always move in the same way (they're not random, I mean), so I manipulate them to do my bidding there.

Quote from BlueGlass:
Awesome watching you take out the bats while falling.

Haha, yes, I was hoping it would look impressive. You don't want to know how many runs ended right there and then. Smiley

Quote from BlueGlass:
Great shuriken management, having exactly the 8 you need for segment 2

Yeah, for the first few segments when I don't have the Gauntlet, Shruiken are VERY important. Smiley

Quote from BlueGlass:
And segment 2 was pretty much all amazing.  It's so easy to get hit in some of those rooms, between the ghosts and the bats and everthing else.

Tell me about it, I'm still reeling from how much harder it was than I thought. The worst was when I had an almost perfect run but no Weight drop, or, even worse, when I got the Weight drop but then something went horribly wrong. Even with the mishap with the elevator, I'm still happy at the final result, especially since I know all the places where the run failed horribly! Smiley
BlueGlass
2011-05-31 07:41:28 am
Yep yep yep!
Okay, definitely didn't know that about the Spring in the Sky shop.  I get what you're saying now.

Maybe a detour for Ruins RAM 16K when you go to chant the mantra?  Not sure if it would still be faster now or not; my gut instinct is saying yes, but that could just be me being biased in the hopes that a route I found will be used.

I'll see about a picture for opening the bracelet shop.  I know the spot is near the left side of the block.

Oogh, damage boosting to the Grail, that sounds evil.  I definitely can't fault you for not making it, especially considering you still had those bats coming up.
BlueGlass
BlueGlass
Edit history:
BlueGlass: 2011-05-31 08:18:14 am
2011-05-31 08:17:39 am
Yep yep yep!
Bah, can't attach files to an edited post.

Stand where the green blotch is, face left, jump, and throw when you hit the ceiling.

Yes, I used the pic from the map on the wiki.

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