Is PJ
She is going to get violated next time I play this game. That is all.
Your persistence in actually beating her in low% and keeping at it for so long made my night, there is no way I would have lasted that long.
SDA Forum
Is PJ
She was having such a good night, too. Ever since my first complaint about her teleporting on me, she was featuring that move 3-4 times every fight. I was getting soooo mad. Thank god we finally figured out her pattern. That made things so much easier. Definitely wanted to quit, but I had to make it to the end. 
Die Hard 2013.
After watching PJ's legendary battle of the ages last night, I wanted to see if there was a method to Ella's madness. I used lua in the emulator to map a red pixel to every place she teleported. She lands at roughly 16 positions with very minor variance. Maybe the battle isn't actually as impossible as previously thought. The red pixel is centered pretty low on her sprite.
EDIT: There should be ~16 dots in each cluster, I just didn't run the script long enough.
EDIT: There should be ~16 dots in each cluster, I just didn't run the script long enough.
Is PJ
Awesome job, kirkq! I really appreciate the help! 
In my previous fight, I was hanging out just below the upper right red dot, it looks like. That gave me a good location to hit 4 of them, while remaining somewhat safe from her teleports and fireballs. When she gets to the 40% threshold for pausing, I'll move to that location and fight from there. Until then, I think I'll roam around in the middle and hope I don't get landed on. I guess if I'm really concerned, I can stay in the upper left, which looks completely safe, and then hope that one of her pauses is in a favorable location for me to hit her. That's slow and unmanly though, so I won't do that if I can help it.
So uh. As far as concerning battles go, this is no longer one of them. Thimale is now the riskiest fight, and Battler is the slowest. I see no real way to speed up Battler in a SS run, since running into the stage to hit him is suicide. Thimale I'll need to work on still, but I'm confident I can bust him. My goal is to kill him at 18 or 19. We'll see!
Thanks again, kirkq! That's a big help.
In my previous fight, I was hanging out just below the upper right red dot, it looks like. That gave me a good location to hit 4 of them, while remaining somewhat safe from her teleports and fireballs. When she gets to the 40% threshold for pausing, I'll move to that location and fight from there. Until then, I think I'll roam around in the middle and hope I don't get landed on. I guess if I'm really concerned, I can stay in the upper left, which looks completely safe, and then hope that one of her pauses is in a favorable location for me to hit her. That's slow and unmanly though, so I won't do that if I can help it.
So uh. As far as concerning battles go, this is no longer one of them. Thimale is now the riskiest fight, and Battler is the slowest. I see no real way to speed up Battler in a SS run, since running into the stage to hit him is suicide. Thimale I'll need to work on still, but I'm confident I can bust him. My goal is to kill him at 18 or 19. We'll see!
Thanks again, kirkq! That's a big help.
Is PJ
Did a practice run of this on stream tonight. I beat Snowball Monster on my first try at level 18, with taking an unintentional hit from a crystal, and then crushed Ella at just level 19 on my first try. Very promising. I think I am going to do this in the speed run. However, when I made it to the final boss, I was only level 25. I was doing MAYBE 1 damage to the red gargoyle boss, which is unacceptable. I died on him twice at level 25, so I decided to gain one more level and then beat him. 26 is a good final level, IMO. I did not reach it normally, though. I killed every enemy on the final floor of Lagoon Castle (the spiders and green lancers, who are the best to fight, IMO), and then 2-3 giants on the next floor. This means I do need to spend some time gaining that extra level. I considered getting it in the Ice Cave so I'd be 19 for Snowball and 20 for Ella, but it will be faster to level in the top floor of Lagoon Castle still, I think. I'll likely grab the Curing Ring and then go back out to fight some more monsters and gain the level. Perhaps running to Curing Ring, and then running to get the Moon Shield afterwards would do it. I'll figure it out during planning. I do know that I need to be at level 26 for the final gauntlet though.
Therefore, I have the following level guidelines:
Samson: 3
Natela: 7
Turdlecano: 11
Duma: I don't care. 15 usually.
Snowball: 18
Ella: 19
Battler: 25, if I choose to level in Lagoon Castle instead of Secret Place
Final Gauntlet: 26
My final time was 2:06. The two deaths on red gargoyle cost me 5 minutes each, and I had 3-4 deaths on Natela and 1-2 on Samson to go along with those. And of course a few deaths on the maps (Dwarf Cave, mostly). I have no idea how much the map deaths cost me, but from the boss fights alone, I can hit like 1:45-1:50. With better luck against Battler, I can cut another 2 minutes I think, and then with some better map navigation and no deaths, maybe 5-10 more minutes. Sub-1:35 would be a real struggle, but it all depends on how good I can get at killing enemies while moving and how well I can do at avoiding damage (since pausing to regen takes time). The enemies that cost me most time currently are the Mouse/Elephant Knights in Siegfried Castle basement, the Eskimos in the Ice Cave, and the green lancers in Lagoon Castle. I just need to work on the timing for walking and hitting them and I'll cut a lot of time immediately, I think.
Looking very good! And this is all without emulator practice atm. Once I really drill these levels and bosses, it'll get so much faster.
Therefore, I have the following level guidelines:
Samson: 3
Natela: 7
Turdlecano: 11
Duma: I don't care. 15 usually.
Snowball: 18
Ella: 19
Battler: 25, if I choose to level in Lagoon Castle instead of Secret Place
Final Gauntlet: 26
My final time was 2:06. The two deaths on red gargoyle cost me 5 minutes each, and I had 3-4 deaths on Natela and 1-2 on Samson to go along with those. And of course a few deaths on the maps (Dwarf Cave, mostly). I have no idea how much the map deaths cost me, but from the boss fights alone, I can hit like 1:45-1:50. With better luck against Battler, I can cut another 2 minutes I think, and then with some better map navigation and no deaths, maybe 5-10 more minutes. Sub-1:35 would be a real struggle, but it all depends on how good I can get at killing enemies while moving and how well I can do at avoiding damage (since pausing to regen takes time). The enemies that cost me most time currently are the Mouse/Elephant Knights in Siegfried Castle basement, the Eskimos in the Ice Cave, and the green lancers in Lagoon Castle. I just need to work on the timing for walking and hitting them and I'll cut a lot of time immediately, I think.
Looking very good! And this is all without emulator practice atm. Once I really drill these levels and bosses, it'll get so much faster.
Is PJ
Quote from Tigger77:
Awesome keep up the good work
When this run is finished Lagoon will look like a cool easy zelda clone
When this run is finished Lagoon will look like a cool easy zelda clone
Thanks, Tigger77! The run definitely won't showcase how good the game is, but I will do my best.
Anyways, I was checking an experience table of this game to see where/when I can take some time to level, and I noticed that from level 19 to 20, there is a jump in Str of 21 points! That is gigantic! I think that fighting Ella at level 20 will save enough time to make this worth it, since I won't have to wait for as many iterations of her pause cycle to kill her. I'll test today on emulator to make sure that Str growth is accurate, but if it is I am definitely killing Thimale at 19 and Ella at 20. That should solve my leveling issue later on, I think.
Is PJ
Oh man. I had a few great Lagoon attempts tonight! I made it to the second trip of Dwarf Cave before I was killed my a rogue fire dragon. I swear he was in the wrong spot. I was completely unprepared for the dragon to appear in this particular spot, and was killed instantly. Darn. The other attempts were rather unsuccessful: one death to Natela, one death to Samson, and one death to the white koala bear dog gargoyle guy...you know, the first enemy in the game. He's a great fighter. Haha. Anyways, that long attempt died at around 48 minutes, which is about 10 minutes slower than the TAS up to that point. I had some significant map navigation errors which cost probably around a minute total, so I am very happy with that time! I would've liked to have beaten it, of course, but this is just as good.
I need more practice on Natela. I'd like more attempts to make it to Dwarf Cave so I can be more picky about my runs there instead of just auto-accepting anything that beats Natela. We'll see if I can somehow do that fight more consistently.
I need more practice on Natela. I'd like more attempts to make it to Dwarf Cave so I can be more picky about my runs there instead of just auto-accepting anything that beats Natela. We'll see if I can somehow do that fight more consistently.
Is PJ
Unexpected discoveries!
It's almost useful, too! See, for MP-draining items (well, really only the Protective and Power Rings), they drain your MP while they are equipped, but continue to function even if you have 0 MP. I noticed this during boss fights most, since I never use the rings outside of boss fights. Well, during some practice I decided to equip the Power Ring in Siegfried Castle since I don't use magic there, and since it'd make killing some of the enemies faster on my way to get the Force Sword. My MP dropped to 0, and then started to increase as normal. Strangely, my damage was still the same. It is possible to regen MP while wearing an MP-draining item! The downside? Once you level or enter your equipment screen, the game adjusts your stats. I think it auto-unequips the ring when your MP is 0, but I don't think the game is constantly refreshing your stat calculations, so until something does do that your stats will remain as if the item was equipped.
I tried this in the Ice Cave and it does indeed work, but I level too much in there for it to be worthwhile. I lose all of my MP and I lose the time it takes to go into the menu and re-equip after each level, and I only gain a little time from increased killing speed. Not worth it. It won't carry over the effects from boss battles either, since I level after each of those. The only useful time for this bug is in Lagoon Castle. I level frequently in here, but I also use my menu thrice to equip the Moon Blade, Moon Shield, and Moon Armor. In between each menu, I ought to save a bunch of time in killing. I also don't use magic here because it doesn't hurt the green lancer enemies and spiders are easier to kill against a wall than by using magic. Overall a neat find, but it will only save maybe a minute of time at best. Still something worth using!
I also modified my Dwarf Cave route a bit. It's somehow faster now, even though I kill 7 fire dragons with my sword and pick up the Protective Ring on the way. This route is much safer than my other and by killing the extra dragons with my sword before getting the Wind Crystal, I make sure I am level 11 as I reach Turdlecano so I don't have to go scrambling around looking for more dragons. Much easier.
I did some damage calculations the other day. Let me link the damage formula from the TASVideo's thread:
Basically, there's some attack threshold where you'll be so weak the game decides to round your damage to 2. Above this threshold, there's a very narrow range in which you can 0 or 1 damage and it is more beneficial to downgrade your weapon to deal 2 damage. Pretty funny. Anyways, two posts above, I mentioned I'd level to 20 to fight Ella because of that +21 strength from the level. Well, it turns out that at level 19, I am below the threshold and do 2 damage to Ella, and at level 20, I am 6 strength points above the threshold, and do "2.4" points, which rounds to 2 anyways. That level is entirely insignificant. That is why I decided to get the Protective Ring in the Dwarf Cave. I'll use this against Ella instead of the Power Ring, and fight her at level 19 instead of 20. This cuts some time from the leveling process and makes the battle slightly safer, since I can take like 3-4 more hits per health refill. Nice change, IMO.
Also, I am below the threshold against Samson, Natela, and Turdlecano. To do more than 2 damage to Natela, I'd have to be level 10 (gain 3 more levels). Unreal!
I'll also use the Protective Ring against Turdlecano to survive one additional hit (hardly matters), but I'll be using Power Ring for every other battle. I just think the 5 seconds it takes for the "Item get!" message makes it worth it for extra security against Ella.
That's all for now. Hopefully I'll do a few more attempts tomorrow.
It's almost useful, too! See, for MP-draining items (well, really only the Protective and Power Rings), they drain your MP while they are equipped, but continue to function even if you have 0 MP. I noticed this during boss fights most, since I never use the rings outside of boss fights. Well, during some practice I decided to equip the Power Ring in Siegfried Castle since I don't use magic there, and since it'd make killing some of the enemies faster on my way to get the Force Sword. My MP dropped to 0, and then started to increase as normal. Strangely, my damage was still the same. It is possible to regen MP while wearing an MP-draining item! The downside? Once you level or enter your equipment screen, the game adjusts your stats. I think it auto-unequips the ring when your MP is 0, but I don't think the game is constantly refreshing your stat calculations, so until something does do that your stats will remain as if the item was equipped.
I tried this in the Ice Cave and it does indeed work, but I level too much in there for it to be worthwhile. I lose all of my MP and I lose the time it takes to go into the menu and re-equip after each level, and I only gain a little time from increased killing speed. Not worth it. It won't carry over the effects from boss battles either, since I level after each of those. The only useful time for this bug is in Lagoon Castle. I level frequently in here, but I also use my menu thrice to equip the Moon Blade, Moon Shield, and Moon Armor. In between each menu, I ought to save a bunch of time in killing. I also don't use magic here because it doesn't hurt the green lancer enemies and spiders are easier to kill against a wall than by using magic. Overall a neat find, but it will only save maybe a minute of time at best. Still something worth using!
I also modified my Dwarf Cave route a bit. It's somehow faster now, even though I kill 7 fire dragons with my sword and pick up the Protective Ring on the way. This route is much safer than my other and by killing the extra dragons with my sword before getting the Wind Crystal, I make sure I am level 11 as I reach Turdlecano so I don't have to go scrambling around looking for more dragons. Much easier.
I did some damage calculations the other day. Let me link the damage formula from the TASVideo's thread:
Quote from OmnipotentEntity:
If Nasir Attack < floor(Enemy Def/2)
Damage = 2
Else
Damage = floor((Nasir Attack - floor(Enemy Def/2))/2.5)
Damage = 2
Else
Damage = floor((Nasir Attack - floor(Enemy Def/2))/2.5)
Basically, there's some attack threshold where you'll be so weak the game decides to round your damage to 2. Above this threshold, there's a very narrow range in which you can 0 or 1 damage and it is more beneficial to downgrade your weapon to deal 2 damage. Pretty funny. Anyways, two posts above, I mentioned I'd level to 20 to fight Ella because of that +21 strength from the level. Well, it turns out that at level 19, I am below the threshold and do 2 damage to Ella, and at level 20, I am 6 strength points above the threshold, and do "2.4" points, which rounds to 2 anyways. That level is entirely insignificant. That is why I decided to get the Protective Ring in the Dwarf Cave. I'll use this against Ella instead of the Power Ring, and fight her at level 19 instead of 20. This cuts some time from the leveling process and makes the battle slightly safer, since I can take like 3-4 more hits per health refill. Nice change, IMO.
Also, I am below the threshold against Samson, Natela, and Turdlecano. To do more than 2 damage to Natela, I'd have to be level 10 (gain 3 more levels). Unreal!
I'll also use the Protective Ring against Turdlecano to survive one additional hit (hardly matters), but I'll be using Power Ring for every other battle. I just think the 5 seconds it takes for the "Item get!" message makes it worth it for extra security against Ella.
That's all for now. Hopefully I'll do a few more attempts tomorrow.
Is PJ
I would be very surprised if it did affect the TAS at all, since it takes so long to open the menu and change equipment. It only helps the SS run slightly, and that's because I use the menu more than absolutely essential and I take longer to kill enemies than the TAS. The TAS does make one unnecessary trip to Poper (before getting the Mint from Siegfried), but the rest of it looks really good. OmnipotentEntity is making a new TAS with some more changes (I think he bought a Shiny Stone early on that he never used, so he can cut some frames there) that I did not even think of. I can't wait to watch it!
Is PJ
Discovery!
Copied from the video description:
Copied from the video description:
Quote from PJ!:
Pretty cool. Looks like if you kill the boss while in the air during an earthquake, you can move after you land, even though it's a cutscene. Not sure if it will be of much use since it takes more time to have him earthquake again than it does to walk to the exit after killing him. Still neat.
Also, you can exit the room during his explosion and fight him again! You won't get experience from this so it's not very useful, but still worth mentioning.
Also, you can exit the room during his explosion and fight him again! You won't get experience from this so it's not very useful, but still worth mentioning.
Is PJ
I did an RTA on stream tonight just to get a feel for where my time ought to be when I finish, and to practice some of the later levels. My time was 1:45:42, and the run was really horrible. I died on Natela, Duma, Snowball Monster, and Battler once each, for a loss of ~6 minutes. The Ice Cave was a huge disaster; I finished my route for leveling/item collection and then headed to the boss room only to find that it wasn't there. Not sure how to explain it. It was a dead end instead of a corridor leading to the boss. I walked around for a long time, finally somehow found it, died randomly, and then repeated the process. I know this map inside and out, and I am positive I was in the right spot. I even rewatched the recording while looking at the map, and it definitely was the right route. Door just wasn't there. Ended losing around 10 minutes to this garbage.
Anyways, sub-1:30 is totally possible if I do it without dying. I only need reasonable boss luck and some pretty good map navigation to do it. If I don't get it I won't be crushed, but it is possible. First completed run without deaths is being submitted. My prediction is that it'll be 1:33 or 1:34.
Anyways, sub-1:30 is totally possible if I do it without dying. I only need reasonable boss luck and some pretty good map navigation to do it. If I don't get it I won't be crushed, but it is possible. First completed run without deaths is being submitted. My prediction is that it'll be 1:33 or 1:34.
Is PJ
http://img809.imageshack.us/i/lagoonwtf.jpg/
I win! Not quite, but I still win. So here's the deal. During the battle with Battler, those spike thingies move around the chamber and damage you. Battler spawned near the left side of the screen, but right as I killed him, one of the spike guys was passing through me. Once he died, I and the spikey thing were frozen in place, but it continued to damage me during his death cutscene. My health was drained to zero, but since I was in the air when I killed him, it couldn't register my death (you can't die in the air, but you'll die once you land). The game proceeded with the cutscene, said "You defeated Battler!", and refilled my HP and MP. I then landed on the ground and died. With full health. I love this game.
Edit: This wasn't an attempt, ofc. Just emulator practice.
I win! Not quite, but I still win. So here's the deal. During the battle with Battler, those spike thingies move around the chamber and damage you. Battler spawned near the left side of the screen, but right as I killed him, one of the spike guys was passing through me. Once he died, I and the spikey thing were frozen in place, but it continued to damage me during his death cutscene. My health was drained to zero, but since I was in the air when I killed him, it couldn't register my death (you can't die in the air, but you'll die once you land). The game proceeded with the cutscene, said "You defeated Battler!", and refilled my HP and MP. I then landed on the ground and died. With full health. I love this game.
Edit: This wasn't an attempt, ofc. Just emulator practice.
Is PJ
Some more updates, I guess.
Battler: I was contacted by youtube user Shamukh regarding this boss. He had found out that Battler prefers to spawn in 4 positions initially, as opposed to just a random location. I decided to test this out, but I didn't have as much luck. He was appearing in very different spots for me. We guessed at first that it was based on level, experience points, MP, equipment, etc etc, but we still don't really know for sure. For awhile, he was appearing in one of like 5 places, and I could kill him in one round when he was in three of those places. Even though he now has been appearing in a few other locations, my general strategy is the same. I run to the new safe spot as soon as I gain control of Nasir and I wait there. Here is a picture of the safe spot:
http://img810.imageshack.us/i/battlersafespot.jpg/
There is one teleport location just above me in that picture (move up two pixels and I can damage him), one just below me (one pixel down), and two directly to the left. If he appears in any of those locations, I can do between 95-100% of his life in that one appearance, and then retreat back to the safe spot and wait for another favorable spawn. There are a lot of spawn places that are in the middle band or near the bottom of the screen. Those are terrible since the spike golems cut horizontally across the middle during one of their first movements. In those situations, I just wait for him to teleport again. I can kill him almost every time within two complete cycles of the spike golems. With my other strategy, it would take 6-7 iterations sometimes. If I kill him in the first appearance, I can cut several minutes of the battle!
Would be nice to know what his appearance is dependent on, but I think, like Ella, the RNG for the teleport locations is changed every time I take a step.
Final boss gauntlet: The first 5 bosses (up through THORBIRD) are all pretty tame. I had a great idea this morning to shorten the final battle against the Red Gargoyle, and unlike most of my ideas this one actually works!
I mentioned a few posts ago about that bug with the MP-draining equipment not draining MP after it reaches 0 once, since it technically unequips. Well, I realized that since I use it against THORBIRD, but am not awarded any experience (levels) afterwards, it should still give me the power bonus. Sure enough, it does. The problem is that I normally begin the Red Gargoyle battle by tanking some hits so I guarantee I am not insta-killed, and then recovering the damage with the Curing Ring. The instant I open my equipment menu, the strength bonus is lost. Therefore, I need to fight the Gargoyle for awhile before I switch to Curing Ring for damage control. This means I need a safe way to start the battle.
Holding left/right/up when the battle begins all result in death (or escaping from the battle). I tried holding down during his intro cutscene, thinking I'd be able to outrun his whip maybe. As it turns out, I actually can do that! The problem is that sometimes he doesn't teleport right away and I run into him....and then he teleports on me and kills me. As far as I know, that behavior is random. It seems like I can somewhat avoid it if, instead of holding down for the entire intro cutscene, I release it every once in awhile. The timing and duration doesn't matter apparently; perhaps it doesn't do anything at all in reality. However, with that approach, I have never once run into him and died. He always teleports immediately and I outrun him to safety.
At that point, I have full health and can begin my full-power assault. With the Power Ring bonus, he only takes 15 hits to kill, as opposed to 45-46 hits without it. Of course, if I am damaged 2-3 times I need to equip Curing Ring and then fight him normally. 80% of the time I can kill him in the very first few seconds of the battle. When I can't, I can usually escape to safety and kill him in the next few teleports. I am also going to pick up the Elixir at the beginning of the fourth floor of Lagoon Castle. It takes like 10 seconds to get, but it gives me some extra security against Battler, and a few extra chances to hit Red Gargoyle with the Power Ring bonus. And I suppose it lets me live in case the escape at the beginning of the battle doesn't go as planned. I think that's a worthwhile trade-off.
Anyways, if I can somehow manage to use both of those strategies in a SS run, I can cut probably 5 minutes off of my time!
Battler: I was contacted by youtube user Shamukh regarding this boss. He had found out that Battler prefers to spawn in 4 positions initially, as opposed to just a random location. I decided to test this out, but I didn't have as much luck. He was appearing in very different spots for me. We guessed at first that it was based on level, experience points, MP, equipment, etc etc, but we still don't really know for sure. For awhile, he was appearing in one of like 5 places, and I could kill him in one round when he was in three of those places. Even though he now has been appearing in a few other locations, my general strategy is the same. I run to the new safe spot as soon as I gain control of Nasir and I wait there. Here is a picture of the safe spot:
http://img810.imageshack.us/i/battlersafespot.jpg/
There is one teleport location just above me in that picture (move up two pixels and I can damage him), one just below me (one pixel down), and two directly to the left. If he appears in any of those locations, I can do between 95-100% of his life in that one appearance, and then retreat back to the safe spot and wait for another favorable spawn. There are a lot of spawn places that are in the middle band or near the bottom of the screen. Those are terrible since the spike golems cut horizontally across the middle during one of their first movements. In those situations, I just wait for him to teleport again. I can kill him almost every time within two complete cycles of the spike golems. With my other strategy, it would take 6-7 iterations sometimes. If I kill him in the first appearance, I can cut several minutes of the battle!
Would be nice to know what his appearance is dependent on, but I think, like Ella, the RNG for the teleport locations is changed every time I take a step.
Final boss gauntlet: The first 5 bosses (up through THORBIRD) are all pretty tame. I had a great idea this morning to shorten the final battle against the Red Gargoyle, and unlike most of my ideas this one actually works!
I mentioned a few posts ago about that bug with the MP-draining equipment not draining MP after it reaches 0 once, since it technically unequips. Well, I realized that since I use it against THORBIRD, but am not awarded any experience (levels) afterwards, it should still give me the power bonus. Sure enough, it does. The problem is that I normally begin the Red Gargoyle battle by tanking some hits so I guarantee I am not insta-killed, and then recovering the damage with the Curing Ring. The instant I open my equipment menu, the strength bonus is lost. Therefore, I need to fight the Gargoyle for awhile before I switch to Curing Ring for damage control. This means I need a safe way to start the battle.
Holding left/right/up when the battle begins all result in death (or escaping from the battle). I tried holding down during his intro cutscene, thinking I'd be able to outrun his whip maybe. As it turns out, I actually can do that! The problem is that sometimes he doesn't teleport right away and I run into him....and then he teleports on me and kills me. As far as I know, that behavior is random. It seems like I can somewhat avoid it if, instead of holding down for the entire intro cutscene, I release it every once in awhile. The timing and duration doesn't matter apparently; perhaps it doesn't do anything at all in reality. However, with that approach, I have never once run into him and died. He always teleports immediately and I outrun him to safety.
At that point, I have full health and can begin my full-power assault. With the Power Ring bonus, he only takes 15 hits to kill, as opposed to 45-46 hits without it. Of course, if I am damaged 2-3 times I need to equip Curing Ring and then fight him normally. 80% of the time I can kill him in the very first few seconds of the battle. When I can't, I can usually escape to safety and kill him in the next few teleports. I am also going to pick up the Elixir at the beginning of the fourth floor of Lagoon Castle. It takes like 10 seconds to get, but it gives me some extra security against Battler, and a few extra chances to hit Red Gargoyle with the Power Ring bonus. And I suppose it lets me live in case the escape at the beginning of the battle doesn't go as planned. I think that's a worthwhile trade-off.
Anyways, if I can somehow manage to use both of those strategies in a SS run, I can cut probably 5 minutes off of my time!
Is PJ
I did an RTA tonight to tie together all of my new strategies and see how everything would work. I recorded the entire thing, but my DVD ran out of space somehow 1:28:00 into it. I think I need to look into how to clear the data off of that better. The DVD recorder said there was 2:00:00 remaining when I started, but it obviously couldn't record over my old data. Very strange. I need to fix that before I do real attempts again.
Anyways, I used the timer on my phone after the DVD quit (since I couldn't use the digital display anymore for timing); my final time was 1:37:20. I had one death on Natela....and that was it until the Cloud map. I foolishly missed a jump there because I'm an idiot. Then I died on the Red Gargoyle, which I'll get into later. But yea, only 3 deaths, and one was on Natela. That's amazing! In my mind, that's basically a no-death run. Two of those deaths shouldn't have happened....and one on Natela. The final time SHOULD have been 1:33:10, but the Gargoyle battle ruined that. It was a very clean run overall, though. I don't think I can cut 3 minutes off from just better execution alone. The Natela death cost me a minute and the Cloud death cost like 15 seconds or something, but the rest was really good. No map navigation errors to speak of.
So let's talk about some highlights and problems of this run:
Beginning through Samson:
I was slow getting to level 2 in the first room, so I lost around 30 seconds in the first Gold Cave trip. My Samson battle was textbook perfect, though. Could not have gone better.
Elf Fields through Natela:
Pretty standard here. I killed a lot more enemies than usual in the basement so my experience was at a good point on my trip to Natela. I didn't have to stop much to kill enemies. I did lose some time killing the ghost thingies because an electric cloud blocked my fireballs. I made it to Natela 30 seconds behind my average, and then died against her late into the battle. Killed her my second try, and proceeded to Denegul without any difficulties.
Dwarf cave through Turdlecano:
Had really good luck with those lava monster guys. Did not die at all. In fact, I was not damaged at all in this cave except for the lava. It was a really surprising run. I gathered enough experience here to make it to level 11 and beyond, which saved some time leveling in Siegfried Castle. Turdlecano gave me the best pattern ever, too! I need to post that fight to youtube I think. He was somehow trapped in the upper left corner for most of the fight, so I could just stand there and pummel him when he opened his eyes. I think I only had to reset him four times (move him to the back of the room again), which is rather rare.
Siegfried Castle:
This went better than usual. I was only hit once in the entire time before getting the new armor and shield, and killed the knights relatively quickly. Hit level 14, went back to town, and came back to kill Duma. No problem at all. I skipped the fourth sword here to save the time it takes to get it and equip it, but I think that's a mistake. The enemies in the Ice Cave and Lagoon Castle take more hits, and Thimale takes more hits as well. I think the time saved in battle outweighs the time it takes to get the sword. It is completely inconsequential when it comes to damage against Ella since I'll be doing the minimum possible anyways, but it helps against the normal enemies.
Ice Cave:
No real problems. Slower than I am used to because I didn't have the newest sword. Still managed to do it with only 3 hits I think, and the map was actually loaded correctly this time which is awesome. The Snowball Monster fight was pretty close. I was somehow hit to the side while I was killing him, so instead of trading hits I was just taking hits. I somehow managed to survive, reset the loop, and stunlock him before he killed me. No idea how. I had not much life left at all. Magical.
Ella:
She gets her own section. This was perhaps the worst fight I've ever had against Ella. It raged on for 5:30. She went through her 93977993 pattern three times and into the fourth cycle before I finally killed her. She just was not pausing in convenient spots for me to hit her; there was nothing I could do. Meanwhile every few teleports would hit me (as expected), so I was slowly being whittled down to nothing. I won the battle with one hit left, even with the Protective Ring, Elixir, and Life Ball. Good news is, I can survive that battle at level 19 even with super terrible luck! Died on the first jump of the Clouds, though. Karma finally got me.
Lagoon Castle:
Killing enemies in the first two floors were quiet slow because of the weak sword I had. Once I got the Moon Blade though, I really picked up the pace. I was killing enemies on the third floor very well. I got hit unintentionally twice on this entire floor I think. Unusual. The last enemy I killed before Battler brought me to level 26, which was perfect. I also grabbed the Elixir at the beginning of the third floor to help with my Red Gargoyle kill.
Battler was an interesting fight. I lined up with the wrong tile, and he appeared in a good spot. I took a hit on the first cycle since I wasn't in a safe spot, but managed to do enough damage to kill him on his second teleport. Still a very good battle.
Final boss gauntlet:
No issues at all until Red Gargoyle. As I mentioned above, I was playing on emulator to work out a strategy for him, and figured that holding down at the beginning of the battle was safe. Well, in this attempt the gargoyle teleported on top of me before I gained control of my character. Holding down in that situation = death. I didn't even have time to press a different direction because I was dead. Not even the Elixir could help there. Since this pattern never happened on emulator during my 50 attempts, I conclude this isn't possible on console. I knew there was a reason I never did that before, but it worked so well on emulator. Playing on console is different.
Therefore, I need to use my same strategy as before: press right just as he teleports so I am damage boosted out to the left, then fight him as long as I can without the Curing Ring. The Elixir helps a lot here. In my attempt tonight, I killed the gargoyle in one combo (on my second attempt...since I died on the first obviously). It literally lasted like 5 seconds after I gained control. Awesome fight.
Conclusion:
The main improvements for this run are:
-Don't die on Natela
-Grab the sword from Siegfried Castle
-Hope for better luck on Ella
-Don't miss the jump on the Clouds (lol)
-Run right at the start of the Red Gargoyle fight instead of down, then hope to kill him in one combo
-Hope my luck is as good as it was for Battler and Turdlecano
With all those things, I can probably cut 1:30:00. Otherwise, I think I'll be looking at a solid 1:32-1:33 as predicted. I am definitely fine with that, though! It's nice to see this come together finally.
Anyways, I used the timer on my phone after the DVD quit (since I couldn't use the digital display anymore for timing); my final time was 1:37:20. I had one death on Natela....and that was it until the Cloud map. I foolishly missed a jump there because I'm an idiot. Then I died on the Red Gargoyle, which I'll get into later. But yea, only 3 deaths, and one was on Natela. That's amazing! In my mind, that's basically a no-death run. Two of those deaths shouldn't have happened....and one on Natela. The final time SHOULD have been 1:33:10, but the Gargoyle battle ruined that. It was a very clean run overall, though. I don't think I can cut 3 minutes off from just better execution alone. The Natela death cost me a minute and the Cloud death cost like 15 seconds or something, but the rest was really good. No map navigation errors to speak of.
So let's talk about some highlights and problems of this run:
Beginning through Samson:
I was slow getting to level 2 in the first room, so I lost around 30 seconds in the first Gold Cave trip. My Samson battle was textbook perfect, though. Could not have gone better.
Elf Fields through Natela:
Pretty standard here. I killed a lot more enemies than usual in the basement so my experience was at a good point on my trip to Natela. I didn't have to stop much to kill enemies. I did lose some time killing the ghost thingies because an electric cloud blocked my fireballs. I made it to Natela 30 seconds behind my average, and then died against her late into the battle. Killed her my second try, and proceeded to Denegul without any difficulties.
Dwarf cave through Turdlecano:
Had really good luck with those lava monster guys. Did not die at all. In fact, I was not damaged at all in this cave except for the lava. It was a really surprising run. I gathered enough experience here to make it to level 11 and beyond, which saved some time leveling in Siegfried Castle. Turdlecano gave me the best pattern ever, too! I need to post that fight to youtube I think. He was somehow trapped in the upper left corner for most of the fight, so I could just stand there and pummel him when he opened his eyes. I think I only had to reset him four times (move him to the back of the room again), which is rather rare.
Siegfried Castle:
This went better than usual. I was only hit once in the entire time before getting the new armor and shield, and killed the knights relatively quickly. Hit level 14, went back to town, and came back to kill Duma. No problem at all. I skipped the fourth sword here to save the time it takes to get it and equip it, but I think that's a mistake. The enemies in the Ice Cave and Lagoon Castle take more hits, and Thimale takes more hits as well. I think the time saved in battle outweighs the time it takes to get the sword. It is completely inconsequential when it comes to damage against Ella since I'll be doing the minimum possible anyways, but it helps against the normal enemies.
Ice Cave:
No real problems. Slower than I am used to because I didn't have the newest sword. Still managed to do it with only 3 hits I think, and the map was actually loaded correctly this time which is awesome. The Snowball Monster fight was pretty close. I was somehow hit to the side while I was killing him, so instead of trading hits I was just taking hits. I somehow managed to survive, reset the loop, and stunlock him before he killed me. No idea how. I had not much life left at all. Magical.
Ella:
She gets her own section. This was perhaps the worst fight I've ever had against Ella. It raged on for 5:30. She went through her 93977993 pattern three times and into the fourth cycle before I finally killed her. She just was not pausing in convenient spots for me to hit her; there was nothing I could do. Meanwhile every few teleports would hit me (as expected), so I was slowly being whittled down to nothing. I won the battle with one hit left, even with the Protective Ring, Elixir, and Life Ball. Good news is, I can survive that battle at level 19 even with super terrible luck! Died on the first jump of the Clouds, though. Karma finally got me.
Lagoon Castle:
Killing enemies in the first two floors were quiet slow because of the weak sword I had. Once I got the Moon Blade though, I really picked up the pace. I was killing enemies on the third floor very well. I got hit unintentionally twice on this entire floor I think. Unusual. The last enemy I killed before Battler brought me to level 26, which was perfect. I also grabbed the Elixir at the beginning of the third floor to help with my Red Gargoyle kill.
Battler was an interesting fight. I lined up with the wrong tile, and he appeared in a good spot. I took a hit on the first cycle since I wasn't in a safe spot, but managed to do enough damage to kill him on his second teleport. Still a very good battle.
Final boss gauntlet:
No issues at all until Red Gargoyle. As I mentioned above, I was playing on emulator to work out a strategy for him, and figured that holding down at the beginning of the battle was safe. Well, in this attempt the gargoyle teleported on top of me before I gained control of my character. Holding down in that situation = death. I didn't even have time to press a different direction because I was dead. Not even the Elixir could help there. Since this pattern never happened on emulator during my 50 attempts, I conclude this isn't possible on console. I knew there was a reason I never did that before, but it worked so well on emulator. Playing on console is different.
Therefore, I need to use my same strategy as before: press right just as he teleports so I am damage boosted out to the left, then fight him as long as I can without the Curing Ring. The Elixir helps a lot here. In my attempt tonight, I killed the gargoyle in one combo (on my second attempt...since I died on the first obviously). It literally lasted like 5 seconds after I gained control. Awesome fight.
Conclusion:
The main improvements for this run are:
-Don't die on Natela
-Grab the sword from Siegfried Castle
-Hope for better luck on Ella
-Don't miss the jump on the Clouds (lol)
-Run right at the start of the Red Gargoyle fight instead of down, then hope to kill him in one combo
-Hope my luck is as good as it was for Battler and Turdlecano
With all those things, I can probably cut 1:30:00. Otherwise, I think I'll be looking at a solid 1:32-1:33 as predicted. I am definitely fine with that, though! It's nice to see this come together finally.
Is PJ
BUUUUUUUMP
So I've been playing this game quite a lot in preparation for AGDQ, and made a few minor changes to my route. The changes are mostly based around my leveling strategies. In short, I am not going to intentionally level up in this run. I will kill enemies along the way, but I am not going to go out of my way to level anymore. I was running some damage calculations and came to the conclusion that it really doesn't matter what level I am, within reason. Here is what I'm thinking now:
Samson: Level 3. Can level while escorting Giles.
Natela: Level 7 OR level 6. I might also forego getting the Large Shield because if Natela hits me, I am dead anyways. Same goes for every enemy afterwards. The minor defense increase is likely not worth the minor detour.
Turdlecano: Level 13 OR level 14. This contradicts what I said before, but at level 12, he takes 75 hits, and at level 13 he takes 47 hits. That's a significant reduction in rounds since they take so long with this boss. I might even consider spawn camping the fire dragons in the final room (the three at the beginning of the room) to level to reach level 14. It takes ~15 additional fire dragons to reach this level, which is 5 rounds of dragons. I'll have to time it out to see how long that takes. However, at level 14, Turdlecano will theoretically take only 32 hits, which is 5-6 rounds faster. I think the time I save in the fight MAY outweigh how long it takes to level, but I am not positive. I need to test this.
Duma: No additional leveling. In fact, I might not even kill enemies in here. Maybe just the elephants in the basement that lag the game too much. There is no time savings against Doma, though. Getting the Force Sword before fighting him makes the fight 5 hits faster, but that means I have to go get the sword sooner. It really doesn't matter either way, so I'll likely continue to get it before the fight.
Thimale: Level 18. Maybe 17. I killed him with ease at 18 last time I fought him, and that was with getting hit by 2 ice crystals beforehand. It's not a hard fight, especially after doing it low% for so long.
Ella: One higher than Thimale. 18 or 19 is fine. I already do the minimum damage to her, and I'm not living significantly longer with levels. The Protect Ring, Elixir, and Life Ball make it a really easy fight since I trained under low% conditions.
Battler: Level 24 or level 25. Basically no out of the way leveling. I'll kill enemies on my way to the moon equipment, but that's it. No more detours to level. I think I should reach level 25 still....but I need to test to make sure. At level 24, he takes like 34 hits to kill, but at 25, he takes 23 hits. I don't think I can one-round him if he takes 34 hits. I want to kill him in one round, because if I have to wait for him to appear in another good location it may take awhile. At the same time, I don't think it would take longer than spending the time to get the other level.
Final boss gauntlet: This honestly doesn't make a big difference. 25-27 is fine. The final boss takes like 3 more hits at level 25 than at level 26, so that is basically the same, especially since he will ideally be stunlocked. Thorbird takes a few more hits too, but again it is not very significant. I think I want to do this at level 25 now and fight Battler at 24. Again, I'll need to test it, but that sounds good to me right now.
I need to do a lot of practice still, but I will likely be doing attempts this weekend.
So I've been playing this game quite a lot in preparation for AGDQ, and made a few minor changes to my route. The changes are mostly based around my leveling strategies. In short, I am not going to intentionally level up in this run. I will kill enemies along the way, but I am not going to go out of my way to level anymore. I was running some damage calculations and came to the conclusion that it really doesn't matter what level I am, within reason. Here is what I'm thinking now:
Samson: Level 3. Can level while escorting Giles.
Natela: Level 7 OR level 6. I might also forego getting the Large Shield because if Natela hits me, I am dead anyways. Same goes for every enemy afterwards. The minor defense increase is likely not worth the minor detour.
Turdlecano: Level 13 OR level 14. This contradicts what I said before, but at level 12, he takes 75 hits, and at level 13 he takes 47 hits. That's a significant reduction in rounds since they take so long with this boss. I might even consider spawn camping the fire dragons in the final room (the three at the beginning of the room) to level to reach level 14. It takes ~15 additional fire dragons to reach this level, which is 5 rounds of dragons. I'll have to time it out to see how long that takes. However, at level 14, Turdlecano will theoretically take only 32 hits, which is 5-6 rounds faster. I think the time I save in the fight MAY outweigh how long it takes to level, but I am not positive. I need to test this.
Duma: No additional leveling. In fact, I might not even kill enemies in here. Maybe just the elephants in the basement that lag the game too much. There is no time savings against Doma, though. Getting the Force Sword before fighting him makes the fight 5 hits faster, but that means I have to go get the sword sooner. It really doesn't matter either way, so I'll likely continue to get it before the fight.
Thimale: Level 18. Maybe 17. I killed him with ease at 18 last time I fought him, and that was with getting hit by 2 ice crystals beforehand. It's not a hard fight, especially after doing it low% for so long.
Ella: One higher than Thimale. 18 or 19 is fine. I already do the minimum damage to her, and I'm not living significantly longer with levels. The Protect Ring, Elixir, and Life Ball make it a really easy fight since I trained under low% conditions.
Battler: Level 24 or level 25. Basically no out of the way leveling. I'll kill enemies on my way to the moon equipment, but that's it. No more detours to level. I think I should reach level 25 still....but I need to test to make sure. At level 24, he takes like 34 hits to kill, but at 25, he takes 23 hits. I don't think I can one-round him if he takes 34 hits. I want to kill him in one round, because if I have to wait for him to appear in another good location it may take awhile. At the same time, I don't think it would take longer than spending the time to get the other level.
Final boss gauntlet: This honestly doesn't make a big difference. 25-27 is fine. The final boss takes like 3 more hits at level 25 than at level 26, so that is basically the same, especially since he will ideally be stunlocked. Thorbird takes a few more hits too, but again it is not very significant. I think I want to do this at level 25 now and fight Battler at 24. Again, I'll need to test it, but that sounds good to me right now.
I need to do a lot of practice still, but I will likely be doing attempts this weekend.