Labyrinth of Touhou

I have no name

Edit history:

I have no name: 2013-03-22 11:50:10 am

I have no name: 2013-03-22 11:35:03 am

I have no name: 2013-03-22 11:34:38 am

I have no name: 2013-03-22 11:34:16 am

2013-03-15 11:52:05 pm

Obscure games ftw

I've been planning a segmented run of this for a while now, and am pretty sure my strategies are sound. However there are things I've definitely overlooked and I want to make the fastest run I can. I have no segments recorded yet, though segment 1 looks like it has a 1/7 chance of succeeding, though this won't carry through the whole game. Saving takes about 3 seconds, so I will very likely be saving on every return trip to Gensoyko-this run will have LOTS of segments.
I'm going through each floor making a map of it (through the 10th floor with the base map, still have to go through and fill in events), and working out exactly what enemy formations can appear (done with only the first floor so far-one encounter proves to be far superior to every other in almost every way, going to be fun times trying to force a few of those on the run to the 2F stairs Tongue

).

Be able to fight Chen.
Go to 2F.
Be able to fight Cirno while grinding on 2F.
Recruit Chen slightly overleveled. Get her drop.
Recruit Meiling slightly overleveled with Chen in the party. Get her drop.
Recruit Cirno slightly underleveled. Her drop would be nice but it's not rquired and can be gotten through other means.
Recruit Minoriko. Every character counts at this stage, and she's only a couple minutes out of the way (and I can grab a few more Power Belts)
Recruit Youmu. Force the drop. Probably the first hellish segment.
Defeat Ifrit and Alice's dolls.
Recruit Alice. Pleasepleasepleaseplease get the Forbidden Tablet as it gives a 30% MAG boost which is huge at this stage.
Defeat 5F St. Elmo's Fire. Force the drop-we'll need it for Chen running later.
Recruit Iku. Her buffing ability will save us later.
We have a full party now, hooray!
Defeat 6F Elmo's Fire. Force the drop-we'll need it for Chen running later.
Trigger both 7F switches. Do not encounter Nitori.
Encounter Nitori. Guaranteed DEF +30% item for winning!
Trigger Komachi on the way. Leave the Frozen Frog by Tam's Foe, make sure to pick up all others throughout the game.
Defeat Tam's Foe. Despite the simple attack script this will be a HARD fight to survive. I have a strategy that has worked in prior playthroughs, but with a few changes to account for having Iku and not having Wriggle and Aya.
Do nothing on 8F for now.
Before Reisen, do the following:
Recruit Komachi. Maybe do this sooner depending on how her spirit thingies go down and use her DTH inflicting abilities to speed up grinding.
Defeat 8F Nitori IF AND ONLY IF she gives more EXP/SKP per second than the encounters. I don't think she does and I don't need an EVA+ item.
Defeat Reisen, getting the Getitup V. Rabbit minions are irrelevant, though I suspect the winning run will have mostly soldiers.
Abuse the glitch that lets you skip through the colored gates to reach the failsafe locks. You can't get OOB to skip the Eientei fight, which sucks because it's the hardest fight yet, again, and Reisen Eirin Mokou and Kaguya aren't worth using/the time to recruit.
Before Eientei, recruit Nitori and Suwako. Overleved fights are easy fights and we want the drops too Tongue

Defeat Eientei with the party (Meiling ~~Remilia~~ Sakuya Komachi Youmu Reimu Marisa Patchy Alice Nitori Suwako Iku Ran)
For Eientei items: try to get the Getitup. Don't stress about missing the Star or the Sunglasses, but if you get them, offer a sacrifice to the RNG gods.
13 GOTO 14
Defeat Evil Forge with Komachi and Reimu as MVPs. Nitori helps too!
Defeat Hill Gigas via PAR abuse. Marisa and Patchy for primary sources of damage. Suwako keeps it from getting a turn. Get its drop.
On the 16th floor, perform the Yukari skip by doing the same colored gate skip used in the Iron Maze to get through Yukari's barrier relay things. You can get OOB with these =D. Blitz 17F with Miraculous Flame Chen.
Get to the second 18F relay point.
Grind.
Grind more.
Grind some more.
Recruit Yukari skipping Djinn Storm(s), getting her drop too. Maybe skip this step, leaving Alice
Recruit Rinnosuke. This is the hardest fight in the game.
This is your party. Meiling Komachi ~~Remilia~~ Sakuya Youmu Reimu Marisa Nitori Suwako Patchy Iku Yukari/Alice Ran Get lucky.
BREATHE A SIGH OF RELIEF THAT THE STAR OF ELENDIL IS 100% GUARANTEED
Add Rinnosuke to the party. Replace Alice if Yukari was completely skipped, probably Youmu otherwise after the 19F bosses
Enter 19F, find all 4 bosses
Defeat Great Intellect (Youmu/Nitori/Suwako/Komachi)
Defeat Rainbow Phoenix (PAR+Youmu(God Slash?)/Nitori/Suwako/Patchy etc.)
Defeat Genocider (PAR+Patchy/Nitori/other nukers)
Defeat Cosmic (SPD DBF?+Suwako/Youmu)
Get the 20F relay point
Grind the few enemies vulnerable to death, get some drops. The segments will be brutal!
Prepare for Maribel. Final party is Meiling Komachi ~~Remilia~~ Sakuya Reimu Marisa Nitori Suwako Patchy Iku Rinnosuke Ran Youmu/Yukari
Maribel shouldn't be too hard as she gives you time to buff in the start of the fight, and her last phase is get lucky with 0 Djinn Storm few self-buff.
Run's over. You can go home now. But first, enjoy the ending.

So, any thoughts on what I have so far/suggestions to improve it/interest in the run?

Thread title:

I've been planning a segmented run of this for a while now, and am pretty sure my strategies are sound.  However there are things I've definitely overlooked and I want to make the fastest run I can.  I have no segments recorded yet, though segment 1 looks like it has a 1/7 chance of succeeding, though this won't carry through the whole game.  Saving takes about 3 seconds, so I will very likely be saving on every return trip to Gensoyko-this run will have LOTS of segments.
I'm going through each floor making a map of it (through the 10th floor with the base map, still have to go through and fill in events), and working out exactly what enemy formations can appear (done with only the first floor so far-one encounter proves to be far superior to every other in almost every way, going to be fun times trying to force a few of those on the run to the 2F stairs :P ).

[spoiler=strategies]
Be able to fight Chen.
Go to 2F.
Be able to fight Cirno while grinding on 2F.
Recruit Chen slightly overleveled.  Get her drop.
Recruit Meiling slightly overleveled with Chen in the party.  Get her drop.
Recruit Cirno slightly underleveled.  Her drop would be nice but it's not rquired and can be gotten through other means.
Recruit Minoriko.  Every character counts at this stage, and she's only a couple minutes out of the way (and I can grab a few more Power Belts)
Recruit Youmu.  Force the drop.  Probably the first hellish segment.
Defeat Ifrit and Alice's dolls.
Recruit Alice.  Pleasepleasepleaseplease get the Forbidden Tablet as it gives a 30% MAG boost which is huge at this stage.
Defeat 5F St. Elmo's Fire.  Force the drop-we'll need it for Chen running later.
Recruit Iku.  Her buffing ability will save us later.
We have a full party now, hooray!
Defeat 6F Elmo's Fire.  Force the drop-we'll need it for Chen running later.
Trigger both 7F switches.  Do not encounter Nitori.
Encounter Nitori.  Guaranteed DEF +30% item for winning!
Trigger Komachi on the way.  Leave the Frozen Frog by Tam's Foe, make sure to pick up all others throughout the game.
Defeat Tam's Foe.  Despite the simple attack script this will be a HARD fight to survive.  I have a strategy that has worked in prior playthroughs, but with a few changes to account for having Iku and not having Wriggle and Aya.
Do nothing on 8F for now.
Before Reisen, do the following:
Recruit Komachi.  Maybe do this sooner depending on how her spirit thingies go down and use her DTH inflicting abilities to speed up grinding.
Defeat 8F Nitori IF AND ONLY IF she gives more EXP/SKP per second than the encounters.  I don't think she does and I don't need an EVA+ item.
Defeat Reisen, getting the Getitup V.  Rabbit minions are irrelevant, though I suspect the winning run will have mostly soldiers.
Abuse the glitch that lets you skip through the colored gates to reach the failsafe locks.  You can't get OOB to skip the Eientei fight, which sucks because it's the hardest fight yet, again, and Reisen Eirin Mokou and Kaguya aren't worth using/the time to recruit.
Before Eientei, recruit Nitori and Suwako.  Overleved fights are easy fights and we want the drops too :P
Defeat Eientei with the party (Meiling [s]Remilia[/s] Sakuya Komachi Youmu Reimu Marisa Patchy Alice Nitori Suwako Iku Ran)
For Eientei items: try to get the Getitup.  Don't stress about missing the Star or the Sunglasses, but if you get them, offer a sacrifice to the RNG gods.
13 GOTO 14
Defeat Evil Forge with Komachi and Reimu as MVPs.  Nitori helps too!
Defeat Hill Gigas via PAR abuse.  Marisa and Patchy for primary sources of damage.  Suwako keeps it from getting a turn.  Get its drop.
On the 16th floor, perform the Yukari skip by doing the same colored gate skip used in the Iron Maze to get through Yukari's barrier relay things.  You can get OOB with these =D.  Blitz 17F with Miraculous Flame Chen.
Get to the second 18F relay point.
Grind.
Grind more.
Grind some more.
Recruit Yukari skipping Djinn Storm(s), getting her drop too.   [b]Maybe skip this step, leaving Alice[/b]
Recruit Rinnosuke.  This is the hardest fight in the game.
This is your party. Meiling Komachi [s]Remilia [/s]Sakuya Youmu Reimu Marisa Nitori Suwako Patchy Iku Yukari/Alice Ran  Get lucky.
BREATHE A SIGH OF RELIEF THAT THE STAR OF ELENDIL IS 100% GUARANTEED
Add Rinnosuke to the party.  [b]Replace Alice if Yukari was completely skipped, probably Youmu otherwise after the 19F bosses[/b]
Enter 19F, find all 4 bosses
Defeat Great Intellect (Youmu/Nitori/Suwako/Komachi)
Defeat Rainbow Phoenix (PAR+Youmu(God Slash?)/Nitori/Suwako/Patchy etc.)
Defeat Genocider (PAR+Patchy/Nitori/other nukers)
Defeat Cosmic (SPD DBF?+Suwako/Youmu)
Get the 20F relay point
Grind the few enemies vulnerable to death, get some drops.  The segments will be brutal!
Prepare for Maribel.  Final party is Meiling Komachi [s]Remilia [/s]Sakuya Reimu Marisa Nitori Suwako Patchy Iku [b]Rinnosuke Ran Youmu/Yukari[/b]
Maribel shouldn't be too hard as she gives you time to buff in the start of the fight, and her last phase is get lucky with 0 Djinn Storm few self-buff.
Run's over.  You can go home now.  But first, enjoy the ending.
[/spoiler]
So, any thoughts on what I have so far/suggestions to improve it/interest in the run?

Withhelde

2013-03-18 06:26:07 pm

Thinker & Dreamer

Did some chatty with Ihave and basically came down to how long the route uses Remilia. She's far too average to be that useful in a segmented run and basically a dead weight past Eientei; highly suggest to have Ran be the second slot tank (Remi's main role), and replace Remilia with a speedster (Sakuya or Aya). Being able to buff speed in a segment run can make some fights go much faster and speed buffs (for maingame) are a lot moe useful than the pitiful damage Remilia can dish out.

I have no name

2013-03-18 06:42:44 pm

Obscure games ftw

Also noticed was EXP yield formulas:
Anyone in the Labyrinth at the end of a fight gets 100% of the experience awarded.
Anyone outside the Labyrinth gets 80%.
Anyone recruited later on gets 90%.

This may affect when Chen/Meiling/Suwako/Nitori/Yukari are recruited during grinding to get them more EXP, but the tradeoff is a longer fight with them. As of right now I'm thinking recruit Chen at level 3, Meiling at the planned time, Nitori ASAP, Suwako at the planned time and Yukari at the planned time.

I have no name

2013-03-21 02:43:40 am

Obscure games ftw

I'll just leave this here.

Need to decide how to spend levelups though.
Reimu-MAG
Marisa-MAG
Remilia-ATK?
Sakuya-DEF
Patchy-MAG
That's what I think so far.

Withhelde

2013-03-21 11:36:03 am

Thinker & Dreamer

Really strange you did the Chen events as just the first segment. I was thinking floor 2 should be the first priority, especially since you need to go from 1F to get to Chen either ways (grind on 2, then just do the 1F events in a swoop).

As for level ups, you need need to consider positioning far into the game. Marisa should get MAG and Remi ATK for sure, but the other three not so sure on. Do you see Reimu being more for randoms or bosses, cause she'll need a MND build to stay out and take hits when needed. I find her more utility, since you'd be using Sealling Circle more for the PAR and SPI weakness, than just general damage; perhaps a MAG/MND mix? Same deal with Patchy, though I do see her more useful with a full MAG build (though she's strong enough even with a full MND build).

Sakuya's even more tricky; you'd want some SPD for her if you'll be using Lunar Dial (as well as SP). Though, if you're using Iku, Killing Doll can see some uses, but I'll be weary of adding ATK). Basically, you'd want enough SPD and SP for her to do her buffs, then rest in DEF (though just hybrid SPD/SP can work too).

Really strange you did the Chen events as just the first segment. I was thinking  floor 2 should be the first priority, especially since you need to go from 1F to get to Chen either ways (grind on 2, then just do the 1F events in a swoop).

As for level ups, you need need to consider positioning far into the game. Marisa should get MAG and Remi ATK for sure, but the other three not so sure on. Do you see Reimu being more for randoms or bosses, cause she'll need a MND build to stay out and take hits when needed.  I find her more utility, since you'd be using Sealling Circle more for the PAR and SPI weakness, than just general damage; perhaps a MAG/MND mix? Same deal with Patchy, though I do see her more useful with a full MAG build (though she's strong enough even with a full MND build).

Sakuya's even more tricky; you'd want some SPD for her if you'll be using Lunar Dial (as well as SP). Though, if you're using Iku, Killing Doll can see some uses, but I'll be weary of adding ATK). Basically, you'd want enough SPD and SP for her to do her buffs, then rest in DEF (though just hybrid SPD/SP can work too).

I have no name

2013-03-21 12:00:23 pm

Obscure games ftw

I needed to do the Chen events anyway, so I did them immediately as they'd take less luck than running to the 2F stairs with minimal encounters.
The levelups mentioned are just for level 2-I was considering pretty much the same things that you were thinking for the rest of the game though. Reimu is more for bosses though while her attacks still do solid damage to things I want to take advantage of that and keep her heal fullhealing as long as possible. So a magic to mind build around...Alice or so? Maybe a bit later.
Patchy is a nuke. She will not die. Ever. Defense is unimportant.
Sakuya needs to be able to tank second slot, I was going to use defense and speed there and use skill points to cover the SP.

NervFaktor

2013-03-22 02:47:40 am

I already asked this on Shrinemaiden, but are you sure about adding Rinnosuke to the party?
WSMR is a very useful spell on many bosses, but not so much on Maribel and she's the only boss left after recruiting him. She barely deals damage in her first phase and when she enters her final, dangerous phase you'll already be all buffed up anyway. In Bossfights were you can't use WSMR to great effect he's basically just a worse Remilia with less damage and less survivability.
I guess WSMR allows you to grind on 20F earlier, but you need to clear 19F anyway and once you're done with that you should be able to tackle 20F without WSMR. Using WSMR to grind will force you to return to Gensokyo after every battle, I'm not sure if this is really time effective. Keep in mind that in a run like this you'd probably not have to return to Gensokyo after every battle if you grind without WSMR since you can just redo the segment until you get several "easy" 20F battles in a row where you lose no characters on the mini-bosses.

Another point is that Rinnosuke is recruitable very late into the game, he'll obviously have 0 skillpoints spent on everything and you'd have to drop a character from your party whom you already invested lots of skillpoints into. Wasting ressources in a run like this should be avoided at all costs and I'm not seeing the big benefit from adding Rinnosuke to the party. Am I missing something or underestimating 20F grinding with WSMR?

I already asked this on Shrinemaiden, but are you sure about adding Rinnosuke to the party? 
WSMR is a very useful spell on many bosses, but not so much on Maribel and she's the only boss left after recruiting him. She barely deals damage in her first phase and when she enters her final, dangerous phase you'll already be all buffed up anyway. In Bossfights were you can't use WSMR to great effect he's basically just a worse Remilia with less damage and less survivability.
I guess WSMR allows you to grind on 20F earlier, but you need to clear 19F anyway and once you're done with that you should be able to tackle 20F without WSMR. Using WSMR to grind will force you to return to Gensokyo after every battle, I'm not sure if this is really time effective. Keep in mind that in a run like this you'd probably not have to return to Gensokyo after every battle if you grind without WSMR since you can just redo the segment until you get several "easy" 20F battles in a row where you lose no characters on the mini-bosses.

Another point is that Rinnosuke is recruitable very late into the game, he'll obviously have 0 skillpoints spent on everything and you'd have to drop a character from your party whom you already invested lots of skillpoints into. Wasting ressources in a run like this should be avoided at all costs and I'm not seeing the big benefit from adding Rinnosuke to the party. Am I missing something or underestimating 20F grinding with WSMR?

Reiska

2013-03-22 08:52:25 am

I don't think you're missing anything, my kneejerk is that Rinnosuke wouldn't be terribly helpful except possibly in a late-fight rebuff emergency, which shouldn't be a factor for segmented (if you get in that position it's probably a bad segment anyway). He's probably more useful for SS (god forbid...), but in segmented, I've got a hard time seeing him outperforming whoever he's replacing.

I have no name

2013-03-22 11:25:44 am

Rinnosuke is a sacrifice character in each of the 19F bosses, and probably against Maribel as well. Throw up a WSMR to max buffs then he dies. Adding him to the party takes very little effort and all attacking is done with a ew characters anyway. I'll look more into exact strategies when I get there, but my gut feeling is that adding him to the party is the right choice.
20F grinding with WSMR is a bunch of 1 round fights...but 20F grinding with death is a bunch of 1 turn fights.

I have no name

2013-03-22 11:45:04 am

Obscure games ftw

...actually that has me thinking about how useful Yukari -actually- is here...though her fight would probably take about 3 minutes if I did it right before Rinnosuke, I'm not seeing including her saving those 3 minutes. Alice would -probably- be more useful, though the slot is basically a throwaway at that point. However Rinnosuke is more useful than Alice but not more useful than Ran.
I actually see Alice sitting on the sidelines for everything after Eientei, with the possible exception of part of Rinnosuke (cold form probably). Would Yukari be worth it at this stage in the game?

Reiska

2013-03-22 07:06:59 pm

If nothing else, Yukari saves some of Reimu's SP by using IN Quadruple Barrier so Reimu can dedicate all her SP to healing. Beyond that, it's a question of what you can accomplish with Yukari's Spiriting Away.

Withhelde

2013-03-22 11:40:33 pm

Thinker & Dreamer

If nothing else, you can time it well to use Megawatt/Croaking/Silent/Eternity in one round (Yukari in first, then three nukes to just slam the boss, especially once they got buffed with Ran.

Shouldn't be too difficult to set up with segment strats.

I have no name

2013-03-23 02:15:06 am

Obscure games ftw

That's the thing though, it's an unnecessary fight and it's not worth doing if Yukari doesn't save more time than it takes to get her. I guess I'll just time a Yukari fight before Rinnosuke and estimate from there.

I have no name

2013-04-02 03:21:16 pm

Obscure games ftw

Got segment 2. It's a bit sloppy but the drop luck I got during it was insane, 2 Ancient Flying Squirrels and a Power Belt. Got 1 more encounter than planned but 4 encounters was pretty much a pipe dream anyway.
Also got segment 3. It contains no sloppiness and is probably a half second off optimal-most of which was deliberate to not lose the Crystal Piece drop that took 417 tries to force. This means I can (ab)use Sakuya's speed buff on Chen and future bosses, and fire off a Master Spark sooner. Now to determine if I should do Cirno event 1 or the Chen fight first...

Axel Ryman

2013-04-02 04:13:26 pm

We all scream for Eyes Cream

Looked over the strategies and thought I'd post stuff

For 8F Nitori, you get 2400 EXP and 2000 SKP, double what the Calamitous Soul gives you

For the Getitup V from Reisen(9F), I remember if you keep killing the enemies she summons, you can lose out on it, so good luck with that. Once you get a good fight though it's a 100% drop chance. For the Eientei fight, it's a 50% chance, so you shouldn't have to worry about that one too much.

Thought about doing a run on NG+ but like hell am I grinding Chen's SKP up to godlike levels Tongue

lecorbak

Edit history:

lecorbak: 2014-07-11 09:45:44 pm

lecorbak: 2014-07-11 09:26:35 pm

lecorbak: 2014-07-11 09:21:17 pm

lecorbak: 2014-07-11 09:19:05 pm

lecorbak: 2014-07-11 04:45:02 pm

lecorbak: 2014-07-11 04:44:56 pm

lecorbak: 2014-07-11 04:23:59 pm

lecorbak: 2014-07-11 04:22:09 pm

lecorbak: 2014-07-11 04:14:10 pm

lecorbak: 2014-07-11 04:12:49 pm

2014-07-11 04:12:27 pm

Vanilla H is mai waifu

Quote:

Prepare for Maribel. Final party is Meiling Komachi Remilia Sakuya Reimu Marisa Nitori Suwako Patchy Iku Rinnosuke Ran Youmu/Yukari

rinnosuke is shit, really.
chen is great. she has the best speed in the game and a decent attack.
you can do kimontonkou (99% ATB) and after, flight of idaten (90% ATB) spam
if you have a decent level with chen and good equips, you can do 40000/50000 for each attacks or even more.
and because she's so fast, you can switch easily your allies with her.
and as soon as she has no sp, you can switch out chen for guys like pachouli.

for maribel, kill the 1st and the 3rd monsters, the 2nd is by far the less annoying guy.
leave the 2nd alive, kill maribel, and then kill the 2nd.

I recommend you :
1st position : Meiling (for tanking, switching, and healing status/herself) equip her with anti-status effects, well boosted she will not die.
2nd position : Komachi (for effects), Youmu (nuke attack), suika (nuke attack)
3rd position : nitori (nuke attack, buff), marisa (nuke spell), reimu (healing)
4th position : chen (buff, attack spamming, fast switchs), patchouli (nuke spell), sanae (healing, buff)
and for the 2 extra people : yukari can help for filling allies ATB, ran can be great for buffs or attacking.

for the level up boosts, do this :
Reimu : MAG (no atk points : this is totally useless, every spells she has use MAG in the formula, only few of them use ATK as an add-on)
Marisa : MAG
Remilia : ATK
Sakuya : ATK and/or SPD
Patchy : MAG
Chen : ATK and SPD too (not important at the beginning, but really important to increase her speed for the highest levels)
Cirno : MAG
Minoriko : useless
Youmu : ATK
Alice : MAG
Rumia : MAG
Wriggle : ATK
Yuugi : ATK
Aya : ATK and/or SPD
Iku : MAG
Komachi : HP (only useful with her HP)
Suwako : MAG
Sanae : MAG
Nitori : ATK
Ran : MAG (like Reimu, ATK is useless for this character as all her fomulas use MAG in it)
Reisen : MAG
Eirin : MAG
Tenshi : ATK
Mokou : MAG
Flandre : ATK
Orin : ATK
Kaguya : Useless
Suika : ATK
Yuyuko : Useless
Yukari : MAG or maybe SPD, depending how you play her
Rinnosuke : Totally useless

EDIT : I found someone who found a glitch to go out of bounds :
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9136.330.html

after going out of bounds, you can reenter in any walls, so you can basically go directly to the exit, and maybe skip some bosses.
don't know how much exploitable it is, but it could save some time.

Quote:

For example:
It's only possible at intersections with a turn, so this intersection on Floor 11 was the first that I could think of. It works just like ignoring the one-way gates on the late plus disk floors. In this case, you press the opposite direction of where you wish to be put (Down here). Time it correctly, and when the gate forces you to backtrack, you're outside. This obviously only works when a gate won't let you pass.

I tested myself, and it works

[quote]Prepare for Maribel.  Final party is Meiling Komachi Remilia Sakuya Reimu Marisa Nitori Suwako Patchy Iku Rinnosuke Ran Youmu/Yukari[/quote]
rinnosuke is shit, really.
chen is great. she has the best speed in the game and a decent attack.
you can do kimontonkou (99% ATB) and after, flight of idaten (90% ATB) spam
if you have a decent level with chen and good equips, you can do 40000/50000 for each attacks or even more.
and because she's so fast, you can switch easily your allies with her.
and as soon as she has no sp, you can switch out chen for guys like pachouli.

for maribel, kill the 1st and the 3rd monsters, the 2nd is by far the less annoying guy.
leave the 2nd alive, kill maribel, and then kill the 2nd.

I recommend you :
1st position : Meiling (for tanking, switching, and healing status/herself) equip her with anti-status effects, well boosted she will not die.
2nd position : Komachi (for effects), Youmu (nuke attack), suika (nuke attack)
3rd position : nitori (nuke attack, buff), marisa (nuke spell), reimu (healing)
4th position : chen (buff, attack spamming, fast switchs), patchouli (nuke spell), sanae (healing, buff)
and for the 2 extra people : yukari can help for filling allies ATB, ran can be great for buffs or attacking.

for the level up boosts, do this :
Reimu : MAG (no atk points : this is totally useless, every spells she has use MAG in the formula, only few of them use ATK as an add-on)
Marisa : MAG
Remilia : ATK
Sakuya : ATK and/or SPD
Patchy : MAG
Chen : ATK and SPD too (not important at the beginning, but really important to increase her speed for the highest levels)
Cirno : MAG
Minoriko : useless
Youmu : ATK
Alice : MAG
Rumia : MAG
Wriggle : ATK
Yuugi : ATK
Aya : ATK and/or SPD
Iku : MAG
Komachi : HP (only useful with her HP)
Suwako : MAG
Sanae : MAG
Nitori : ATK
Ran : MAG (like Reimu, ATK is useless for this character as all her fomulas use MAG in it)
Reisen : MAG
Eirin : MAG
Tenshi : ATK
Mokou : MAG
Flandre : ATK
Orin : ATK
Kaguya : Useless
Suika : ATK
Yuyuko : Useless
Yukari : MAG or maybe SPD, depending how you play her
Rinnosuke : Totally useless

EDIT : I found someone who found a glitch to go out of bounds :
[url]http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9136.330.html[/url]

[img]http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g415/Teshlun/lot.jpg[/img]

after going out of bounds, you can reenter in any walls, so you can basically go directly to the exit, and maybe skip some bosses.
don't know how much exploitable it is, but it could save some time.

[quote]For example:
It's only possible at intersections with a turn, so this intersection on Floor 11 was the first that I could think of. It works just like ignoring the one-way gates on the late plus disk floors. In this case, you press the opposite direction of where you wish to be put (Down here). Time it correctly, and when the gate forces you to backtrack, you're outside. This obviously only works when a gate won't let you pass.[/quote]

I tested myself, and it works

I have no name

2014-07-12 03:36:00 am

Obscure games ftw

Level-up boosts: most of those are straightforward, some of your useless characters are far from useless, as well, and it doesn't take into account detour time to pick up a character. Rinnosuke is forced and is actually very useful in boss fights from my experiences. Yuyuko is very useful in randoms (DTH effect), but takes too long to get. Kaguya is amazing for ignoring defenses, likewise takes forever to get (Mokou+Kaguya's Foe). Chen starts off stellar but starts tapering off-her DPS is nowhere near as good as some other characters near the end, and her self-buff doesn't mean much when you can set up Iku to buff, say, Youmu and abuse switching with, say, Remilia. Minoriko is ridiculously valuable as a healer before Reimu can spam Exorcising Border. Iku shouldn't get MAG and instead get either MND or SPD to be a better magic tank than Patchy even, or an insane buffer. Reimu's attacks are all composite with a greater MAG influence, and Ran's Soaring En No Ozuno is also composite with a greater MAG influence-obviously, levelups wouldn't go to attack for either character, BUT THEY BUFF BETTER THAN ATTACK.

The OOB glitch has been known about for a while, I've looked into it quite a bit and it can be used to skip most of the 10-12F puzzle, the Yukari fight and in the Plus Disc, the 29F puzzle. Also, I found that glitch independently and explained it in the 8F MoTK thread IIRC, with a greater explanation.

Finally, your suggested party composition-though definitely a solid party, let me rip it apart...

Quote from lecorbak:

I recommend you :
1st position : Meiling (for tanking, switching, and healing status/herself) equip her with anti-status effects, well boosted she will not die.
2nd position : Komachi (for effects), Youmu (nuke attack), suika (nuke attack)
3rd position : nitori (nuke attack, buff), marisa (nuke spell), reimu (healing)
4th position : chen (buff, attack spamming, fast switchs), patchouli (nuke spell), sanae (healing, buff)
and for the 2 extra people : yukari can help for filling allies ATB, ran can be great for buffs or attacking.

Meiling is hands down the best tank.
Komachi's Scythe that Chooses the Dead is a decent nuke, and whatever her debuff spell is called is also useful here in the first phase to nerf Maribel's first Overflowing Unnatural Power. Youmu is forced and amazing anyway. Suika takes too long to pick up for another nuke when you get plenty anyway, no added benefits (though casually, Suika is always in my party). Nitori is another no brainer, Marisa and Reimu are too. Chen is endgame trash for reasons explained earlier, Patchy is already planned and high level, Sanae isn't worth picking up (my route doesn't get 20 characters!). Yukari is maybe, still unsure (probably worthwhile) to pick up, and Ran is a no-brainer. Alice affords debuffs to DEF and MND which is why she may be worth keeping into Maribel-my first couple playthroughs didn't use her too much, but my most recent has used her to great effect.

Also: I haven't forgotten about my segmented run, I've got 4 segments done but then my computer sorta died temporarily-holding off on continuing until I've finished gathering encounter data (groups, where they spawn to the tile) and finished my maps, with what triggers what. I do intend to finish this project eventually Tongue

Level-up boosts: most of those are straightforward, some of your useless characters are far from useless, as well, and it doesn't take into account detour time to pick up a character.  Rinnosuke is forced and is actually very useful in boss fights from my experiences.  Yuyuko is very useful in randoms (DTH effect), but takes too long to get.  Kaguya is amazing for ignoring defenses, likewise takes forever to get (Mokou+Kaguya's Foe).  Chen starts off stellar but starts tapering off-her DPS is nowhere near as good as some other characters near the end, and her self-buff doesn't mean much when you can set up Iku to buff, say, Youmu and abuse switching with, say, Remilia.  Minoriko is ridiculously valuable as a healer before Reimu can spam Exorcising Border.  Iku shouldn't get MAG and instead get either MND or SPD to be a better magic tank than Patchy even, or an insane buffer.  Reimu's attacks are all composite with a greater MAG influence, and Ran's Soaring En No Ozuno is also composite with a greater MAG influence-obviously, levelups wouldn't go to attack for either character, BUT THEY BUFF BETTER THAN ATTACK.

The OOB glitch has been known about for a while, I've looked into it quite a bit and it can be used to skip most of the 10-12F puzzle, the Yukari fight and in the Plus Disc, the 29F puzzle.  Also, I found that glitch independently and explained it in the 8F MoTK thread IIRC, with a greater explanation.

Finally, your suggested party composition-though definitely a solid party, let me rip it apart...
[quote="lecorbak"]
I recommend you :
1st position : Meiling (for tanking, switching, and healing status/herself) equip her with anti-status effects, well boosted she will not die.
2nd position : Komachi (for effects), Youmu (nuke attack), suika (nuke attack)
3rd position : nitori (nuke attack, buff), marisa (nuke spell), reimu (healing)
4th position : chen (buff, attack spamming, fast switchs), patchouli (nuke spell), sanae (healing, buff)
and for the 2 extra people : yukari can help for filling allies ATB, ran can be great for buffs or attacking.[/quote]
Meiling is hands down the best tank.
Komachi's Scythe that Chooses the Dead is a decent nuke, and whatever her debuff spell is called is also useful here in the first phase to nerf Maribel's first Overflowing Unnatural Power.  Youmu is forced and amazing anyway.  Suika takes too long to pick up for another nuke when you get plenty anyway, no added benefits (though casually, Suika is always in my party).  Nitori is another no brainer, Marisa and Reimu are too.  Chen is endgame trash for reasons explained earlier, Patchy is already planned and high level, Sanae isn't worth picking up (my route doesn't get 20 characters!).  Yukari is maybe, still unsure (probably worthwhile) to pick up, and Ran is a no-brainer.  Alice affords debuffs to DEF and MND which is why she may be worth keeping into Maribel-my first couple playthroughs didn't use her too much, but my most recent has used her to great effect.

Also: I haven't forgotten about my segmented run, I've got 4 segments done but then my computer sorta died temporarily-holding off on continuing until I've finished gathering encounter data (groups, where they spawn to the tile) and finished my maps, with what triggers what.  I do intend to finish this project eventually :P

lecorbak

Edit history:

lecorbak: 2014-07-12 06:26:35 pm

lecorbak: 2014-07-12 06:26:25 pm

2014-07-12 06:22:50 pm

Vanilla H is mai waifu

Quote:

The OOB glitch has been known about for a while, I've looked into it quite a bit and it can be used to skip most of the 10-12F puzzle, the Yukari fight and in the Plus Disc, the 29F puzzle.

the 22F and 24F crystal shits too. no need to activate crystals, just pass through them.
But I don't know why noone did a video of it.
I'll surely make one, I've done some tests and recorded it.

Quote:

Chen is endgame trash for reasons explained earlier

chen level up faster, is faster than aya (yes she is), has a nearly free buff, can do like 6 or 7 attacks at a high level when others can generally only do 1.
I recorded some videos in which you can see that she's more powerful than a buffed nuke.
and she can be pretty useful to kill random enemies as she will nearly always attack first.
don't understimate this character.

Quote:

Sanae isn't worth picking up

well, for a speedrun, maybe not.
I find her useful with her buff skills on nitori/meiling/sometimes chen, or when meiling is about to die and she has not enough ATB to be healed before the enemy attacks.
but for a speedrun, reimu and meiling are probably enough.

Quote:

Suika takes too long to pick up for another nuke

that's why I use chen to switch her out for Youmu, and re-switch youmu for suika when youmu attacked.
Chen lose a turn, but because she's so fast, that's not really a problem.
yuugi or remilia may be useful for a speedrun anyway.

are you gonna do the 21F-30F, or just the normal 20F ending ?

did you change the config to negate the attacks' animations ?

[quote]The OOB glitch has been known about for a while, I've looked into it quite a bit and it can be used to skip most of the 10-12F puzzle, the Yukari fight and in the Plus Disc, the 29F puzzle. [/quote]
the 22F and 24F crystal shits too. no need to activate crystals, just pass through them.
But I don't know why noone did a video of it.
I'll surely make one, I've done some tests and recorded it.

[quote]Chen is endgame trash for reasons explained earlier[/quote]
chen level up faster, is faster than aya (yes she is), has a nearly free buff, can do like 6 or 7 attacks at a high level when others can generally only do 1.
I recorded some videos in which you can see that she's more powerful than a buffed nuke.
and she can be pretty useful to kill random enemies as she will nearly always attack first.
don't understimate this character.

[quote]Sanae isn't worth picking up[/quote]
well, for a speedrun, maybe not.
I find her useful with her buff skills on nitori/meiling/sometimes chen, or when meiling is about to die and she has not enough ATB to be healed before the enemy attacks.
but for a speedrun, reimu and meiling are probably enough.

[quote]Suika takes too long to pick up for another nuke[/quote]
that's why I use chen to switch her out for Youmu, and re-switch youmu for suika when youmu attacked. 
Chen lose a turn, but because she's so fast, that's not really a problem.
yuugi or remilia may be useful for a speedrun anyway.

are you gonna do the 21F-30F, or just the normal 20F ending ?

did you change the config to negate the attacks' animations ?

I have no name

2014-07-12 11:15:32 pm

Obscure games ftw

Just through 20F-no point adding another day (literally, due to ***WINNER***). Yes, I changed the config file to disable attack animations-it makes it a lot harder, but much faster AND removes animation length as something else I need to be worrying about.

Iku buffs better than Sanae, has better survivability and levels faster. Reimu and Minoriko heal better. Sanae is good casually as a character who can do both, but in a speedrun she's obsolete before you get her.

Suika takes too long to pick up to be worthwhile anyway, especially when there's better options out there for less time, who can even pull double duty (Suwako for PAR and NTR nuke, for one). You also get her sooner.

Chen can buff herself, yeah, but when Iku can buff other characters who deal more damage per hit, with her buff decaying faster. Speed between turns doesn't matter when you're constantly switching. Admittedly, building Chen as a full-time switch character could be worthwhile, but spamming Sakuya's The World in the endgame makes EVERYONE Chen-speed, and there are diminishing returns on speed too. Attacking Chen is not feasible when you're going underleveled, either-her attack multipliers aren't enough, and though Flight of Idaten is 85% recovery fast, Phoenix Spread Wings has more DPS in an underleveled scenario. Trust me, I'm using Chen in a playthrough where I drafted characters with 2 friends and she is not a feasible attacker, and I'm a higher level than I would be in the speedrun. She only falls further off the pace the more underleveled you get, too. I predict she'll be attacking a lot up until Alice, maybe up to Tam's Foe. I already know she's out DPS'd by Youmu there, though.

Just through 20F-no point adding another day (literally, due to ***WINNER***).  Yes, I changed the config file to disable attack animations-it makes it a lot harder, but much faster AND removes animation length as something else I need to be worrying about.

Iku buffs better than Sanae, has better survivability and levels faster.  Reimu and Minoriko heal better.  Sanae is good casually as a character who can do both, but in a speedrun she's obsolete before you get her.

Suika takes too long to pick up to be worthwhile anyway, especially when there's better options out there for less time, who can even pull double duty (Suwako for PAR and NTR nuke, for one).  You also get her sooner.

Chen can buff herself, yeah, but when Iku can buff other characters who deal more damage per hit, with her buff decaying faster.  Speed between turns doesn't matter when you're constantly switching.  Admittedly, building Chen as a full-time switch character could be worthwhile, but spamming Sakuya's The World in the endgame makes EVERYONE Chen-speed, and there are diminishing returns on speed too.  Attacking Chen is not feasible when you're going underleveled, either-her attack multipliers aren't enough, and though Flight of Idaten is 85% recovery fast, Phoenix Spread Wings has more DPS in an underleveled scenario.  Trust me, I'm using Chen in a playthrough where I drafted characters with 2 friends and she is not a feasible attacker, and I'm a higher level than I would be in the speedrun.  She only falls further off the pace the more underleveled you get, too.  I predict she'll be attacking a lot up until Alice, maybe up to Tam's Foe.  I already know she's out DPS'd by Youmu there, though.

lecorbak

Edit history:

lecorbak: 2014-07-13 12:46:25 am

lecorbak: 2014-07-13 12:19:07 am

lecorbak: 2014-07-13 12:18:48 am

lecorbak: 2014-07-13 12:15:07 am

lecorbak: 2014-07-13 12:09:40 am

lecorbak: 2014-07-13 12:06:53 am

lecorbak: 2014-07-13 12:06:36 am

lecorbak: 2014-07-13 12:02:52 am

lecorbak: 2014-07-13 12:01:20 am

lecorbak: 2014-07-12 11:55:17 pm

lecorbak: 2014-07-12 11:52:18 pm

lecorbak: 2014-07-12 11:50:53 pm

lecorbak: 2014-07-12 11:50:35 pm

2014-07-12 11:50:20 pm

Vanilla H is mai waifu

Quote:

but spamming Sakuya's The World in the endgame makes EVERYONE Chen-speed

nope, chen is faster than that, and her speed is permanent.
now, use sakuya's the world on chen and chen will have a supersonic speed. :V

Quote:

Attacking Chen is not feasible when you're going underleveled

it depends on if you are fighting a high defensive enemy or not.
and even high defensive bosses can be hit by chen with her Phoenix Spread Wings (the formula : 330% ATK - 25% T.DEF) who can hit multiple enemies in top of that, with low sp.
and, chen levels up faster, so she will not be as underleveled as some characters, like rinnosuke.

Quote:

either-her attack multipliers aren't enough, and though Flight of Idaten is 85% recovery fast, Phoenix Spread Wings has more DPS in an underleveled scenario.

flight of idaten is great for some type of enemies, phoenix spread wings for the others.

If I was you, I would recommend this team :
Meiling Komachi Remilia Youmu Reimu Marisa Nitori Suwako Patchy Iku Chen Ran
Sakuya's The World is not really reliable at low level. she doesn't have a great attack and doesn't have great sp.

Quote:

Trust me, I'm using Chen in a playthrough where I drafted characters with 2 friends and she is not a feasible attacker

she is a great character at the beginning, and she's still a great character at 25F.
if she is useless in your team, it's maybe because you don't know how to play it.
it's actually my most useful character with meiling, and I'm dead fucking serious.
I don't even understand why noone play this character.
Actually, my nitori (not buffed) who is specialized in nuke ATK does around 300 000 with her best attack, and she loses all her ATB,
chen does around 150 000 with a simple flight of idaten after a kimontonkou, and her ATB is at 85%, and when she has no buff, it's still around 80 000.
when chen don't have sp anymore, just switch her for like 2-3 turns, and she will arleady have all her sp back, ready to spam again.

anyway, do you know how to beat...

Maribel v2 ?
The fucking head is nearly always invincible, and I don't know how to kill him.
I saw on the DataBase he has 1 million DEF and MND, but don't understand the japanese text on it.
I think there is some sort of pattern but I don't understand, and after some turns, he sends me a one shot attack to my entire team.
if you could help me understand this boss, there are no help on internet, even videos doesn't help me either.

EDIT : I only see kaguya as a viable option.

[quote]but spamming Sakuya's The World in the endgame makes EVERYONE Chen-speed[/quote]
nope, chen is faster than that, and her speed is permanent.
now, use sakuya's the world on chen and chen will have a supersonic speed. :V

[quote]Attacking Chen is not feasible when you're going underleveled[/quote]
it depends on if you are fighting a high defensive enemy or not.
and even high defensive bosses can be hit by chen with her Phoenix Spread Wings (the formula : 330% ATK - 25% T.DEF) who can hit multiple enemies in top of that, with low sp.
and, chen levels up faster, so she will not be as underleveled as some characters, like rinnosuke.

[quote]either-her attack multipliers aren't enough, and though Flight of Idaten is 85% recovery fast, Phoenix Spread Wings has more DPS in an underleveled scenario. [/quote]
flight of idaten is great for some type of enemies, phoenix spread wings for the others.

If I was you, I would recommend this team :
Meiling Komachi Remilia Youmu Reimu Marisa Nitori Suwako Patchy Iku Chen Ran
Sakuya's The World is not really reliable at low level. she doesn't have a great attack and doesn't have great sp.

[quote]Trust me, I'm using Chen in a playthrough where I drafted characters with 2 friends and she is not a feasible attacker[/quote]
she is a great character at the beginning, and she's still a great character at 25F.
if she is useless in your team, it's maybe because you don't know how to play it.
it's actually my most useful character with meiling, and I'm dead fucking serious.
I don't even understand why noone play this character.
Actually, my nitori (not buffed) who is specialized in nuke ATK does around 300 000 with her best attack, and she loses all her ATB,
chen does around 150 000 with a simple flight of idaten after a kimontonkou, and her ATB is at 85%, and when she has no buff, it's still around 80 000.
when chen don't have sp anymore, just switch her for like 2-3 turns, and she will arleady have all her sp back, ready to spam again.

anyway, do you know how to beat...
[hidden]Maribel v2 ?
The fucking head is nearly always invincible, and I don't know how to kill him.
I saw on the DataBase he has 1 million DEF and MND, but don't understand the japanese text on it.
I think there is some sort of pattern but I don't understand, and after some turns, he sends me a one shot attack to my entire team.
if you could help me understand this boss, there are no help on internet, even videos doesn't help me either.

EDIT : I only see kaguya as a viable option.[/hidden]

I have no name

Edit history:

I have no name: 2014-07-13 05:05:18 pm

I have no name: 2014-07-13 02:57:59 am

2014-07-13 02:48:25 am

Obscure games ftw

I'm not building Sakuya as an attacker at all-she's going to sit there, take hit and buff everyone's speed-this means SP boosting items to make doing so feasible. Again: Chen wears through her buffs faster due to her speed, requiring more upkeep. Chen levels faster but her stat growths are lower as a result-if your Chen is OP it's due to your skill point investments, when there's more cost effective places to spend them.

Youmu's SP comes back just as fast and her damage is higher, anyway.

The stupid powerful SPI-element move can either be tanked by Komachi or you can abuse the massively lowered defenses when it starts charging the move.

edit: Another advantage of Rinnosuke: instant full buffs to multiple characters at the start of every boss fight. He doesn't need SKP outside of SPD, and even his base speed is probably enough. Remilia, though useful as an off-tank with decent attack, isn't really needed since I can use Sakuya in the same slot buffing everyone else to increase DPS. Outside of Sakuya vs. Remilia and your obsession with Chen (and stubbornness that Rinnosuke is useless), you suggested the team I was already planning on using. That said, I'm wondering if Ran will be as useful in this setting in the endgame-perhaps Alice would be more useful due to her debuffing ability and solid damage? Ran can maybe keep people topped up on buffs, but Iku can probably refresh them as needed on her own vs. the magic spamming bosses...something else to think about. Yukari...will probably just end up completely skipped.

Quote from lecorbak:

Quote:

He doesn't need SKP outside of SPD

well, of course, it's his only point doing his buff and just dying.

In a speedrun, yes. Casually, he's pretty tanky and has some decent damage too.

I also though about switcher Chen and determined the following: you want the character switching in to be slower than the character switched in, to be able to instantly switch them back out after the nuke. Chen's speed works against her in this role.

I'm not building Sakuya as an attacker at all-she's going to sit there, take hit and buff everyone's speed-this means SP boosting items to make doing so feasible.  Again: Chen wears through her buffs faster due to her speed, requiring more upkeep.  Chen levels faster but her stat growths are lower as a result-if your Chen is OP it's due to your skill point investments, when there's more cost effective places to spend them.

Youmu's SP comes back just as fast and her damage is higher, anyway.

The stupid powerful SPI-element move can either be tanked by Komachi or you can abuse the massively lowered defenses when it starts charging the move.

edit: Another advantage of Rinnosuke: instant full buffs to multiple characters at the start of every boss fight.  He doesn't need SKP outside of SPD, and even his base speed is probably enough.  Remilia, though useful as an off-tank with decent attack, isn't really needed since I can use Sakuya in the same slot buffing everyone else to increase DPS.  Outside of Sakuya vs. Remilia and your obsession with Chen (and stubbornness that Rinnosuke is useless), you suggested the team I was already planning on using.  That said, I'm wondering if Ran will be as useful in this setting in the endgame-perhaps Alice would be more useful due to her debuffing ability and solid damage?  Ran can maybe keep people topped up on buffs, but Iku can probably refresh them as needed on her own vs. the magic spamming bosses...something else to think about.  Yukari...will probably just end up completely skipped.

[quote="lecorbak"][quote]He doesn't need SKP outside of SPD[/quote]
well, of course, it's his only point doing his buff and just dying.[/quote]
In a speedrun, yes.  Casually, he's pretty tanky and has some decent damage too.

I also though about switcher Chen and determined the following:  you want the character switching in to be slower than the character switched in, to be able to instantly switch them back out after the nuke.  Chen's speed works against her in this role.

lecorbak

2014-07-13 12:47:03 pm

Vanilla H is mai waifu

Quote:

He doesn't need SKP outside of SPD

well, of course, it's his only point doing his buff and just dying.