kumari alpha 1

2013-05-19 09:36:25 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Pres: how did you setup your stream like that for the test? The only thing I can do is capture all of my desktop or a smaller region. Did you simply put everything you wanted to capture together in a box on your desktop then set Kumari to capture that area only?

presjpolk

2013-05-20 06:49:33 am

HELLO!

Quote from honorableJay:

Pres: how did you setup your stream like that for the test? The only thing I can do is capture all of my desktop or a smaller region. Did you simply put everything you wanted to capture together in a box on your desktop then set Kumari to capture that area only?

That's exactly what I did. I moved Llanfair over and fired up Quicktime Player for a mockup of using cameras. Smiley

DJS

Edit history:

DJS: 2013-06-11 08:58:55 am

DJS: 2013-06-11 08:58:45 am

DJS: 2013-06-11 04:35:23 am

2013-06-11 04:33:38 am

torch slug since 2006

dude, nate, good job on kumari. i was able to stream with it + norichan to twitch without almost any problems (see: http://www.twitch.tv/lambdan/b/415484527)

even though i was recording in norichan simultaneously, my mac mini 2011 (i5, 8gb ram, hd 3000 etc.) didnt even start making any noise like it usually does when its under load. and i checked in activity monitor and the cpu usage was about 18% or something, which was really nice.

BUT; around the 1h mark, kumari just died. it didnt say anything or warn me, all of a sudden it just died and my twitch stream was down, and i have no idea what caused it. i didnt touch it or anything, it just died right at the end of my test run. when i started it up again some of the settings had disappeared, but it wasnt a huge issue. i havent tried to replicate it but i will probably in the future sometime Wink

any ideas? using osx 10.8.3 if that makes any difference. streamed at 640x480 30fps.

edit: putting an uneven number as width (like 789) causes it kumari to crash. in other news, 788x444 is my new favorite streaming resolution.
http://twitch.tv/lambdan/c/2410039 - did that another moment ago. kumari is just awesome. didnt crash this time either...

dude, nate, good job on kumari. i was able to stream with it + norichan to twitch without almost any problems (see: http://www.twitch.tv/lambdan/b/415484527)

even though i was recording in norichan simultaneously, my mac mini 2011 (i5, 8gb ram, hd 3000 etc.) didnt even start making any noise like it usually does when its under load. and i checked in activity monitor and the cpu usage was about 18% or something, which was really nice.

BUT; around the 1h mark, kumari just died. it didnt say anything or warn me, all of a sudden it just died and my twitch stream was down, and i have no idea what caused it. i didnt touch it or anything, it just died right at the end of my test run. when i started it up again some of the settings had disappeared, but it wasnt a huge issue. i havent tried to replicate it but i  will probably in the future sometime ;)

any ideas? using osx 10.8.3 if that makes any difference. streamed at 640x480 30fps.

edit: putting an uneven number as width (like 789) causes it kumari to crash. in other news, 788x444 is my new favorite streaming resolution. 
http://twitch.tv/lambdan/c/2410039 - did that another moment ago. kumari is just awesome. didnt crash this time either...

HDL

Edit history:

HDL: 2013-06-11 06:17:19 am

2013-06-11 06:16:18 am

Quote from honorableJay:

If the intention is simply to record a game's window (with the bonus of being able to directly stream it with no frills attached), then it should be designed to choose only the window a user chooses rather than grabbing the entire desktop.

Agreed. After using this feature in CamTwist I can't imagine using regular desktop capture anymore. I imagine being a full CT replacement would be past Kumari's scope, so what I'd like to see is support for CT. That way one can easily manage various video sources, overlays, effects, etc. in CT and output all of it to Kumari in the same way it's done for QuickTime Broadcaster and FMLE.

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2013-06-11 07:51:50 am

2013-06-11 07:45:08 am

HELLO!

I think Kumari has a sweet spot here. A simple desktop capture option.

EDIT: On the other hand, as I was making coffee just now I was thinking about it, and part of me really does want to fancy up Kumari as a CamTwist replacement, or at least make a second version of the program with those features. Because CamTwist is dying, the author has made that abundantly clear.

nate

2013-06-11 09:10:51 am

Quote from DJS:

BUT; around the 1h mark, kumari just died. it didnt say anything or warn me, all of a sudden it just died and my twitch stream was down, and i have no idea what caused it. i didnt touch it or anything, it just died right at the end of my test run. when i started it up again some of the settings had disappeared, but it wasnt a huge issue. i havent tried to replicate it but i will probably in the future sometime Wink

twitch probably hung up on you. kumari tries to handle it but it's so hard for me to replicate that i'm sure i don't have all the cases covered. if i develop this more i'll probably have kumari write to a log so you can check it after it closes and see what the errors were and then maybe i can guess what the path was.

Quote from DJS:

putting an uneven number as width (like 789) causes it kumari to crash.

lol. thought sure i had fixed this by making the boxes only go up by 2. thanks for reporting.

Quote from presjpolk:

On the other hand, as I was making coffee just now I was thinking about it, and part of me really does want to fancy up Kumari as a CamTwist replacement, or at least make a second version of the program with those features. Because CamTwist is dying, the author has made that abundantly clear.

well it's open source. only major boner killer is how i hate the shift key and don't use qt style for my own symbols. well that and ffmpeg but you shouldn't need to touch that shit if you're just working on the video capture part or the ui part.

[quote="DJS"]BUT; around the 1h mark, kumari just died. it didnt say anything or warn me, all of a sudden it just died and my twitch stream was down, and i have no idea what caused it. i didnt touch it or anything, it just died right at the end of my test run. when i started it up again some of the settings had disappeared, but it wasnt a huge issue. i havent tried to replicate it but i  will probably in the future sometime ;)[/quote]
twitch probably hung up on you. kumari tries to handle it but it's so hard for me to replicate that i'm sure i don't have all the cases covered. if i develop this more i'll probably have kumari write to a log so you can check it after it closes and see what the errors were and then maybe i can guess what the path was.

[quote="DJS"]putting an uneven number as width (like 789) causes it kumari to crash.[/quote]
lol. thought sure i had fixed this by making the boxes only go up by 2. thanks for reporting.

[quote="presjpolk"]On the other hand, as I was making coffee just now I was thinking about it, and part of me really does want to fancy up Kumari as a CamTwist replacement, or at least make a second version of the program with those features.  Because CamTwist is dying, the author has made that abundantly clear.[/quote]
well it's open source. only major boner killer is how i hate the shift key and don't use qt style for my own symbols. well that and ffmpeg but you shouldn't need to touch that shit if you're just working on the video capture part or the ui part.

HDL

2013-06-12 11:47:38 am

Here's a quick test I did with Kumari at 60 fps: http://www.twitch.tv/ihdl/b/416042893

Kumari itself always showed 60 fps, but the Norichan window would occasionally drop frames (so they weren't dropping in Kumari).

What was most interesting was, unlike QTB and FMLE, Kumari did not have stable CPU usage. It regularly fluctuated. At its best it was comparable to QTB, and at it's worst it was significantly higher than FMLE.

nate

2013-06-12 11:54:11 am

what did you have the speed/quality sliders set on? obviously it will take less cpu to encode a black screen than the middle of a sonic level moving fast. have to move the sliders to the left until you get acceptable cpu use at maximum (otherwise your stream will buffer while twitch waits).

HDL

Edit history:

HDL: 2013-06-12 12:11:13 pm

2013-06-12 11:56:54 am

I left it at default, so it was right in the middle. I'll edit after another test with the result.

Edit: http://www.twitch.tv/ihdl/b/416052866

I put the slider all the way to the left to see what that would do. CPU usage was unbelievably low (seriously I didn't think that was possible for streaming). Norichan still skipped a bit here and there, though. Video looked fine for a while but then started getting noticeably bad.

I'll probably bump quality up slightly to reduce that "grainyness" and keep it mostly to the left. I value fps, CPU, and low heat generation (my fan speed didn't max out) more than picture quality. Now if there were an option to capture only specific windows, I'd probably use Kumari all the time.

nate

2013-06-12 12:00:06 pm

i've heard people recommend one tick from the left for streaming. i shudder at the loss of quality and i'm on a pretty beefy system so i leave it more toward the middle/right.

DJS

2013-06-12 12:20:49 pm

torch slug since 2006

for the record, i use one tick from the left. mainly because if i had it at anything else twitch buffered forever....

HDL

2013-06-12 01:02:34 pm

So I tried changing the resolution. I had it on 320x240 previously to see how the CPU would manage, and (with the slider one tick from the left) it hovered around 10% between Kumari and Norichan. Video quality was fine; could see everything clearly.

Then I tried 640x480, which is what I normally have Norichan set at, and it was going as high as 20%. Far higher than either QTB or FMLE at the same settings. Frame rate was still mostly good, though.

DJS

2013-06-12 04:35:22 pm

torch slug since 2006

made "the wallpaper from hell" so i easily and quickly can just place my norichan and timer window in those spots, and then just fire up kumari and just hit start and im done. easy & fast

Attachment:

wallpaper2.png

HDL

Edit history:

HDL: 2013-06-13 06:03:16 am

2013-06-12 11:11:24 pm

So I did a 3 hour test stream with Kumari earlier. Some observations:

-CPU usage is so low it blows my mind. After about 2 hours it did go up about 2-3% more.
-Video quality seems to be much better than FMLE or QTB, even with the slider more towards the left.
-I guess audio's done better too (?) since I can do stereo at the same bit rate and not suffer for it.
-There seem to be some infrequent video pauses, followed by a speedup to sync back with audio.
-Not sure if this was Kumari's doing or Twitch, but people were way behind me even after refreshing. In one level I was at the 3 minute mark and people were reporting 1:40. At the end of the stream, I checked to see if I'd get cut off when hitting stop and I did (in FMLE the broadcast keeps pace). I'll keep testing to see if this was a one-time thing or if it happens consistently.

So basically for alpha 1 this is pretty damn sweet so far. Look forward to future updates.

presjpolk

2013-06-13 06:01:58 am

HELLO!

I'm thinking of creating a quartz composition with my cameras and mascots. In fact I'm going to check and see if Quartz Composer can pick up the Black Magic doing 480p. If it can... jackpot.

HDL

2013-06-13 02:09:39 pm

Another stream session today revealed a pretty nasty memory leak. I streamed for nearly 6 hours, and during that time I experienced about 3 leaks. The 1st two happened after roughly 40 minutes, and the 3rd after nearly 4 hours. Kumari shot up to 2+ GB.

nate

2013-06-13 02:18:38 pm

have to turn down one or both of the quality sliders then (down = left). it's hard because you can't predict what the most challenging material that you stream will be ahead of time (how do you think like the encoder? lol) and kumari doesn't drop frames when it gets behind so they just pile up. i deal with it all the time too. just going to make it drop frames when it gets behind in the next version (for streaming anyway - it will never drop frames when it gets behind for capture).

HDL

2013-06-13 02:21:18 pm

My slider is 1 tick from the left, so almost completely down. Yesterday I streamed for 3 hours straight and Kumari stood at a few hundred MB at most.

Wasn't recording anything either, but just in case I also had that slider on the left. My Internet connection might have hiccuped a few times.

presjpolk

2013-06-13 02:41:13 pm

HELLO!

If it was this week, and you were on Twith, it was probably Twitch's end. Smiley

nate

2013-06-13 02:42:33 pm

yeah if twitch stopped receiving from you for a while that could do it too. could also explain the delay you were seeing.

UraniumAnchor

Edit history:

UraniumAnchor: 2013-06-13 06:54:15 pm

2013-06-13 06:54:09 pm

Not a walrus

Quote from presjpolk:

If you were on Twitch, it was probably Twitch's end. Smiley

Fixed that for you.

Tranquilite

Edit history:

Tranquilite: 2013-06-13 11:21:25 pm

Tranquilite: 2013-06-13 11:20:31 pm

Tranquilite: 2013-06-13 11:20:05 pm

2013-06-13 11:18:59 pm

Quote from nate:

kumari doesn't drop frames when it gets behind so they just pile up

Reminds me of a couple times back when I was using FMLE with ~.5Mb upload and I didn't have any sort of frame dropping set. My stream was a bit choppy and managed to get ~30 minutes behind before I stopped the stream. The funny thing is when I went back to view my twitch recordings, the video looked perfect. Turns out it was because my video bitrate was higher than my upload could handle (frame dropping also applies in this situation). So even if the encoding is working without a hitch, it is possible that your video bitrate is higher than your upload speed and causing your stream to back up.

HDL

2013-06-14 06:22:39 am

Quote from Tranquilite:

Quote from nate:

kumari doesn't drop frames when it gets behind so they just pile up

Reminds me of a couple times back when I was using FMLE with ~.5Mb upload and I didn't have any sort of frame dropping set. My stream was a bit choppy and managed to get ~30 minutes behind before I stopped the stream. The funny thing is when I went back to view my twitch recordings, the video looked perfect. Turns out it was because my video bitrate was higher than my upload could handle (frame dropping also applies in this situation). So even if the encoding is working without a hitch, it is possible that your video bitrate is higher than your upload speed and causing your stream to back up.

That makes a lot of sense, although I don't think my bit rate is too high (I give it leeway and it's really stable). I use the same settings as when I used FMLE and only had a 1-5 second delay, with auto adjust unchecked.

Based on what Nate said my guess is that either when my Internet connection (or connection to Twitch) farted Kumari "piled" up the frames, which accounts for the occasional pauses people were reporting. Enough small pauses and it gets delayed a ton by the time I end the stream.

Thanks for the info, I'll report the result whenever the next version is available.

[quote="Tranquilite"][quote="nate"]kumari doesn't drop frames when it gets behind so they just pile up[/quote]
Reminds me of a couple times back when I was using FMLE with ~.5Mb upload and I didn't have any sort of frame dropping set. My stream was a bit choppy and managed to get ~30 minutes behind before I stopped the stream. The funny thing is when I went back to view my twitch recordings, the video looked perfect. Turns out it was because my video bitrate was higher than my upload could handle (frame dropping also applies in this situation). So even if the encoding is working without a hitch, it is possible that your video bitrate is higher than your upload speed and causing your stream to back up.[/quote]

That makes a lot of sense, although I don't think my bit rate is too high (I give it leeway and it's really stable).  I use the same settings as when I used FMLE and only had a 1-5 second delay, with auto adjust unchecked.

Based on what Nate said my guess is that either when my Internet connection (or connection to Twitch) farted Kumari "piled" up the frames, which accounts for the occasional pauses people were reporting.  Enough small pauses and it gets delayed a ton by the time I end the stream.

Thanks for the info, I'll report the result whenever the next version is available.

HDL

2013-06-19 07:47:11 am

So yeah, here's a thing: http://www.twitch.tv/ihdl/b/418811158

I got that from putting 426x240 trying to fit my splits in there. I guess it doesn't like that resolution.

nate

2013-06-19 08:20:24 am

huh, cute. yeah, i guess the width should be divisible by 4 for streaming after all. thanks for reporting.