KotOR speedrun in just over 2 hours -- Knights of the Old Republic Done Quick

2015-10-20 07:33:10 pm

Concerning the alignment shift from killing Freyyr, this link will be useful: http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Knights_of_the_Old_Republic/Alignment.

Keep in mind that the Solari crystal requires an alignment higher than 61 to use. Here's a table showing the current route of actions up to this point, and how those actions have changed our alignment:

Code:

 ΔA | TA | AR | Description 
----+----+----+-------------
 -- | 50 | LL | Start of game
 +2 | 52 | LL | Fight Sith troops in apartments
 +2 | 54 | LL | Be nice to the drunks
 +2 | 56 | LL | Save old man debtor
 +4 | 60 | ML | Pay off old man's debts
 +2 | 62 | LL | Save bullied Ithorian
 +2 | 64 | ML | Give Ithorian a medpac
 -6 | 58 | MD | Threaten droid shop owner
 +2 | 60 | LL | Rescue Duros captive
 -- | 60 | -- | End of Taris
 -- | 60 | -- | End of Dantooine
 +2 | 62 | LL | Threaten Shardaan
 -- | 62 | -- | Lie to Yuthura (No change?)
 +1 | 63 | LL | ? Something when talking with Uthar?
 -6 | 57 | MD | Turn in doubting Sith
 +4 | 61 | ML | Spare Yuthura
 -- | 61 | -- | End of Korriban
 -- | 61 | -- | End of Manaan
 -- | 61 | -- | End of Tatooine
 -- | 61 | -- | Start of Kashyyyk
 -8 | 53 | HD | Killing Freyyr
 +4 | 57 | ML | Giving Grrrwahrr a medpac (possibly 2 separate LL actions)
 +6 | 63 | HL | LS Czerka droid head quest

It's considered a High Dark action to kill Freyyr and since we're at moderate light alignment at that point, it becomes a -8 to our alignment. We need to recover 8 points to get back to moderately light side to use the solari crystal again. I think the best solution is actually to just use other weapons until we can use the double saber again. It takes 15 extra seconds to complete the droid head quest, and I haven't timed giving Grrrwahrr a medpac, since that involves additional fighting.

There are two LS actions we can do on Taris, keeping Zelka's secret (LL at 6s) and giving the beggars extra credits (LL at 8s), but simply adding these two will either reduce or result in no change in our overall alignment. Also, purchasing the wraid plate from Sharina Fizark would is a ML action. It would only give a +2 alignment shift, so it wouldn't save us from doing the droid head quest, even if we have the 700 credits to purchase it. Some additional credits could be picked off of the corpse in the first hallway of Hrakert Rift.

If we want to keep the double saber equipped at the end of Kashyyyk, then we should complete the droid head quest as well as sell the wraid plate, and keep everything else the same. This choice would probably cost about 30s. I think it would be better to completely ignore it, since there aren't many fights between the end of Kashyyyk and the fight with Bastila on Lehon. The only fight that we currently use the lightsaber for is against Bastila (the droids at the front of the temple can easily be fought with swords or ignored).

So these are my current thoughts on the matter. Sorry for the wall of text. I'll keep looking into improving the route by adding/removing other LS/DS actions along the way.

Concerning the alignment shift from killing Freyyr, this link will be useful: [url]http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Knights_of_the_Old_Republic/Alignment[/url].

Keep in mind that the Solari crystal requires an alignment higher than 61 to use. Here's a table showing the current route of actions up to this point, and how those actions have changed our alignment:

[hidden][code]
 ΔA | TA | AR | Description 
----+----+----+-------------
 -- | 50 | LL | Start of game
 +2 | 52 | LL | Fight Sith troops in apartments
 +2 | 54 | LL | Be nice to the drunks
 +2 | 56 | LL | Save old man debtor
 +4 | 60 | ML | Pay off old man's debts
 +2 | 62 | LL | Save bullied Ithorian
 +2 | 64 | ML | Give Ithorian a medpac
 -6 | 58 | MD | Threaten droid shop owner
 +2 | 60 | LL | Rescue Duros captive
 -- | 60 | -- | End of Taris
 -- | 60 | -- | End of Dantooine
 +2 | 62 | LL | Threaten Shardaan
 -- | 62 | -- | Lie to Yuthura (No change?)
 +1 | 63 | LL | ? Something when talking with Uthar?
 -6 | 57 | MD | Turn in doubting Sith
 +4 | 61 | ML | Spare Yuthura
 -- | 61 | -- | End of Korriban
 -- | 61 | -- | End of Manaan
 -- | 61 | -- | End of Tatooine
 -- | 61 | -- | Start of Kashyyyk
 -8 | 53 | HD | Killing Freyyr
 +4 | 57 | ML | Giving Grrrwahrr a medpac (possibly 2 separate LL actions)
 +6 | 63 | HL | LS Czerka droid head quest
[/code][/hidden]
It's considered a High Dark action to kill Freyyr and since we're at moderate light alignment at that point, it becomes a -8 to our alignment. We need to recover 8 points to get back to moderately light side to use the solari crystal again. I think the best solution is actually to just use other weapons until we can use the double saber again. It takes 15 extra seconds to complete the droid head quest, and I haven't timed giving Grrrwahrr a medpac, since that involves additional fighting.

There are two LS actions we can do on Taris, keeping Zelka's secret (LL at 6s) and giving the beggars extra credits (LL at 8s), but simply adding these two will either reduce or result in no change in our overall alignment. Also, purchasing the wraid plate from Sharina Fizark would is a ML action. It would only give a +2 alignment shift, so it wouldn't save us from doing the droid head quest, even if we have the 700 credits to purchase it. Some additional credits could be picked off of the corpse in the first hallway of Hrakert Rift.

If we want to keep the double saber equipped at the end of Kashyyyk, then we should complete the droid head quest as well as sell the wraid plate, and keep everything else the same. This choice would probably cost about 30s. I think it would be better to completely ignore it, since there aren't many fights between the end of Kashyyyk and the fight with Bastila on Lehon. The only fight that we currently use the lightsaber for is against Bastila (the droids at the front of the temple can easily be fought with swords or ignored).

So these are my current thoughts on the matter. Sorry for the wall of text. I'll keep looking into improving the route by adding/removing other LS/DS actions along the way.

indykenobi

2015-10-20 07:38:33 pm

You call this archaeology?

IIRC I think that lying to Yuthura gives you +1 LSP as a Low Light action, but I don't remember if I tested that or not.

I had been assuming Freyyr was a Mid Dark, but High Dark makes more sense. I had a similar spreadsheet worked up but hadn't been able to test values. I'm also of the mindset that just using the Sith Lightsaber/Prototype Vibroblade is probably best, but I'll see if I can come up with some workable alignment possibilities in the meantime.

glasnonck

2015-10-20 07:55:14 pm

I tested the values by making several saves, and looking at the data in the KotOR Save Editor (KSE). I didn't see an change in alignment from lying to Yuthura, but there must have been a Low Light action at some point that I missed.

I had to make an excel spreadsheet to keep track of everything, and adding more LS actions on Taris seems to just lower our alignment by the time we get to Kashyyyk. Maybe you'll be able to find something I missed, since you're more familiar with the quests. Are there any companion conversations we could get an alignment shift from?

I forgot to mention that I think the conversation sequence for Sharina Fizark's wraid plate is 2,1,1,1,3.

indykenobi

Edit history:

indykenobi: 2015-10-20 08:17:09 pm

2015-10-20 08:08:04 pm

You call this archaeology?

I was going off memory for Sharina; according to my notes it's 1,2,1,1,3.

And yeah, the problem with doing too many LS actions on Taris is that Low Light actions are nearly worthless if you're already Light-aligned. One that I thought of was giving Largo 200 credits on the way to the Sith guards at the very start; not too far out of the way and I think that is a High Light action. But getting +6 from that just devalues all our other LS actions after that, so that it's only a net +1 LSP by the time we leave Korriban.

It's almost like they want you to continue to do LS actions in order to stay light side...

Edit: Here's a Taris LSP route that nets us an extra +2 LSP at the end of Korriban. Thus we'd only have to recoup 6 LSP after killing Freyyr:

- Talk to Zelka about soldiers (LL, +2, 52) - Sell stuff to 800 credits and buy the NEP here
- Save bullied merchant (LL, +2, 54)
- Give bullied merchant 100 Credits (ML, +4, 58)
- Save alien from Sith (LL, +2, 60)
- Give Largo 200 Credits (HL, +6, 66 - Light Aligned)
- Rest as normal

It's two extra light side actions and 200 extra credits than what we do now, and we'd still have to dig ourselves out of the Freyyr hole later, although doing Sharina and the Mandalorian Wookiee with this Taris route would work. But then that's four extra LS actions.

The more I look the more I think it's better to just use different weapons until after Darth Waifu.

I was going off memory for Sharina; according to my notes it's 1,2,1,1,3.

And yeah, the problem with doing too many LS actions on Taris is that Low Light actions are nearly worthless if you're already Light-aligned.  One that I thought of was giving Largo 200 credits on the way to the Sith guards at the very start; not too far out of the way and I think that is a High Light action.  But getting +6 from that just devalues all our other LS actions after that, so that it's only a net +1 LSP by the time we leave Korriban.

It's almost like they want you to continue to do LS actions in order to stay light side...

Edit: Here's a Taris LSP route that nets us an extra +2 LSP at the end of Korriban.  Thus we'd only have to recoup 6 LSP after killing Freyyr:

- Talk to Zelka about soldiers (LL, +2, 52) - Sell stuff to 800 credits and buy the NEP here
- Save bullied merchant (LL, +2, 54)
- Give bullied merchant 100 Credits (ML, +4, 58)
- Save alien from Sith (LL, +2, 60)
- Give Largo 200 Credits (HL, +6, 66 - Light Aligned)
- Rest as normal

It's two extra light side actions and 200 extra credits than what we do now, and we'd still have to dig ourselves out of the Freyyr hole later, although doing Sharina and the Mandalorian Wookiee with this Taris route would work.  But then that's four extra LS actions.

The more I look the more I think it's better to just use different weapons until after Darth Waifu.

glasnonck

2015-10-21 06:27:21 am

I tend to agree with you. I've timed talking to Zelka about the soldiers and turning in the droid head quest at roughly 6s and 15s, respectively. That doesn't, however, take into account the time spent picking up the droid head in the first place (maybe 8s). Then talking with Largo would possibly take another 8s. That's roughly 30-40s instead of just switching to a different saber or replacing the Solari crystal with the Krayt dragon pearl before leaving the Ebon Hawk on Kashyyyk.

indykenobi

Edit history:

indykenobi: 2015-10-24 05:24:11 pm

indykenobi: 2015-10-24 12:46:14 pm

indykenobi: 2015-10-24 12:43:05 pm

2015-10-24 12:11:56 pm

You call this archaeology?

Edit: I found a timesaver on Taris that requires a Low Dark action. So I modified the route at the bottom to include that. See next post for Taris timesave.

So I've been doing some alignment testing, and here's what I've concluded, hidden for length. There's some bizarre stuff that goes on:

1. The game is confused (shocking, I know) about where your alignment switches from Neutral to Light. I've found the following behavior at 60 alignment:

- Your character pane is shaded blue.
- You CAN equip light-side only equipment.
- Light-side only conversation options do NOT appear.
- Alignment actions are treated as if you were Neutrally aligned (i.e. a Low Dark action only subtracts 2, instead of 4).

At 59 you're completely Neutral, at 61 you're completely Light. But 60 appears to be this weird hybrid between the two. I haven't noticed the same behavior at the boundary between Neutral and Dark; at 40 alignment your character pane isn't shaded red, but I haven't tested the rest of the behavior there.

2. Betraying Kel Alghwin to Uthar appears to be hardcoded at -5 alignment. I tried it at a bunch of different alignments, but most persuasively at 100 alignment I ended up at 95 afterwards; at 10 alignment I ended up at 5 afterwards; and at 59 alignment I ended up at 54 afterwards.

For me, the sticking point in the alignment seems to be persuading Yuthura to admit you to the Sith academy. This appears to be a Low Dark action (if you just Persuade) or a Neutral action (if you Persuade/Lie). But due to #1 above, Persuade/Lie only appears if your alignment is 61 or more.

Therefore, if we are at 61 alignment or more when we talk Yuthura, our net alignment change from that point to the end of Korriban is -1. So we will stay light-aligned if we're already light-aligned. But if we're at 60, we lose 2 alignment by not lying, for a -3 net alignment on Korriban, which means we wouldn't have enough LSP to equip the Solari-enhanced saber.

So the question becomes, what's the most efficient way to reach 61 alignment before talking to Yuthura?

What I do right now is the following:

- Rescue the Alien informant (52 alignment afterwards, LL (low light action))
- Persuade the drunks (54, LL)
- Rescue the bullied merchant (56, LL)
- Give the merchant 100 credits (60, ML)
- Save the Ithorian from the kids (62, LL)
- Give the Ithorian a medpac (64, ML)
- Threaten Janice Noll for T3 (58, MD)
- Rescue the Duros inside the Sith Base (60, LL)
- Convince Shaardan to spare the Sith hopefuls (62, LL)
- Persuade/Lie to Yuthura (63, LL)

The problem I'm having with this is that the Ithorian part feels really inefficient. If I skipped that completely, then threatening Janice would only be -4, and after Shaardan I would have 60 alignment, which is almost but not quite enough. But adding a single Low Light action before Janice won't help at all, since the +2 would be cancelled out by the extra -2 from Janice.

Ideally you'd have either a Mid (or High) Light action before Janice (which is what the Ithorian is right now), or a Low Light (or better) action after Janice (that isn't the Duros). Here are all the Mid/High Light actions on Taris:

- Give the Ithorian a medpac (ML)
- Give the bullied merchant 100 credits (ML)
- Persuade Holdan to drop Dia's bounty (ML)
- Refuse Dia's reward after helping her (ML)
- Give the Rakghoul Serum to Zelka (ML)
- Give Largo 200 credits (HL)
- Give the Promised Land journals to Rukil (HL)

Of those, the two with Dia are out of the way and behind a Persuade check. The Promised Land journals are too far out of the way, as is the Rakghoul serum. We already give the merchant credits. So it's either the Ithorian or Largo, and the Ithorian is both cheaper and less out of the way (but only slightly less).

The other option is to find a convenient Low Light (or better) action between threatening Janice and talking to Yuthura. The best candidate on Taris is Persuading Holdan (which can hilariously be done without Persuade if you have Bastila in party), but you have to learn about Dia's bounty from Zax first, then talk to Holdan. So that feels too inefficient.

I haven't fully tested Dantooine's alignment actions yet, but the Dantooine route is pretty streamlined, and I can't think of a convenient light side action on Dantooine. Somehow saving Juhani cannot give you LSP...

One possiblilty on Korriban (discounting Shaardan, which we do anyway) is the Sith Thugs that appear after you talk to the guard at the academy. They're a short way past the cantina (outside the Czerka shop) and Persuading them not to fight you is a Mid Light action. I've succeeded in that Persuade check with 8 net Persuade, and the conversation is just 1,1. By my judgment, it is no further out of the way than the Ithorian is on Taris. So if we added that one, we could be as low as 55 alignment entering Korriban, gain 2 from Shaardan and 4 from that to be at 61 for Yuthura. That could let us skip a couple LS actions on Taris (namely the Ithorian and saving the Duros), though I'm not sure how tricky the Persuade check is.

Now for the interesting part: if we want to never unequip the Solari-saber but still kill Freyyr, then the easiest way is to be at 60 alignment after talking to Shaardan (which can be done by cutting the Ithorian but still saving the Duros), so that the Mid Light action of Persuading the Sith Thugs gets us to 64. That will leave us at 63 exiting Korriban, and then killing Freyyr would drop us to 55. It turns out that saving the Wookiee from the Mandalorians is a Mid Light action; so doing that before leaving the Shadowlands would put us at 59.

Hence we'd need just one extra LS action sometime after Persuading the Sith Thugs. I can think of a few possibilities, but the best one by far is this: when talking to the Czerka guards on Kashyyyk who killed a Wookiee, if you pick 1,1,2 as the start of your conversation you can then attempt to Persuade or Force Persuade (with Dominate Mind) them to leave their posting. The amount of LSP appears to depend on whether you succeed in the Persuade check:

- The third conversation choice "I won't allow you to enslave or kill another Wookiee." is a Mid Light action.
- Succeeding in Persuading the guards to request a transfer is a Low Light action.

If we succeed in the Persuade, we get +3 LSP; if we fail we get +2 LSP. I haven't done much testing, but the straight Persuade is not guaranteed to succeed. The Force Persuade may be guaranteed. Either outcome, however, is enough to get us at least 61 after rescuing Grrrwahrr from the Mandalorians. If Force Persuade is sure to succeed, then we could even skip rescuing the Duros and end up at exactly 60 alignment after rescuing Grrrwahrr.

The conclusion: Here's an alternate alignment route that should allow us to keep the Solari-saber equipped the entire time after Korriban:

- Rescue the Alien informant (52 alignment afterwards, LL (low light action))
- Persuade the drunks (54, LL)
- Agree to kill Gadon Thek (52, LD)
- Rescue the bullied merchant (54, LL)
- Give the merchant 100 credits (58, ML)
- Threaten Janice Noll for T3 (54, MD)
- Rescue the Duros in the Sith Base (56, LL)
- Convince Shaardan to spare the Sith hopefuls (58, LL)
- Persuade the Sith Thugs not to fight you (62, ML)
- Snitch on Kel Alghwin to Uthar (57, hardcoded -5)
- Spare Yuthura after defeating her (61, ML)
- Persuade the Czerka guards to transfer (64, ML + LL)
- Kill Freyyr (56, HD)
- Rescue Grrrwahrr from the Mandalorians (60, ML, light-aligned)

If we decided we didn't care about keeping Solari equipped after killing Freyyr, we can skip the Czerka guards with a save teleport and skip rescuing Grrrwahrr. Compared to the old route, swapping the Ithorian and Duros on Taris for the Sith Thugs on Korriban seems slightly more streamlined to me, but I haven't done exact timings.

I haven't sat down and tested this route out fully yet, but I plan to do so today if I do a run.

Edit: The alignment route works perfectly. I'm still not sure if I'd bother getting the LSP to keep Solari active though. I'll have to think that over.

Edit: I found a timesaver on Taris that requires a Low Dark action.  So I modified the route at the bottom to include that.  See next post for Taris timesave.

So I've been doing some alignment testing, and here's what I've concluded, hidden for length.  There's some bizarre stuff that goes on:

[hidden]1. The game is confused (shocking, I know) about where your alignment switches from Neutral to Light.  I've found the following behavior at 60 alignment:

- Your character pane is shaded blue.
- You CAN equip light-side only equipment.
- Light-side only conversation options do NOT appear.
- Alignment actions are treated as if you were Neutrally aligned (i.e. a Low Dark action only subtracts 2, instead of 4).

At 59 you're completely Neutral, at 61 you're completely Light.  But 60 appears to be this weird hybrid between the two.  I haven't noticed the same behavior at the boundary between Neutral and Dark; at 40 alignment your character pane isn't shaded red, but I haven't tested the rest of the behavior there.

2. Betraying Kel Alghwin to Uthar appears to be hardcoded at -5 alignment.  I tried it at a bunch of different alignments, but most persuasively at 100 alignment I ended up at 95 afterwards; at 10 alignment I ended up at 5 afterwards; and at 59 alignment I ended up at 54 afterwards.

For me, the sticking point in the alignment seems to be persuading Yuthura to admit you to the Sith academy. This appears to be a Low Dark action (if you just Persuade) or a Neutral action (if you Persuade/Lie).  But due to #1 above, Persuade/Lie only appears if your alignment is 61 or more.

Therefore, if we are at 61 alignment or more when we talk Yuthura, our net alignment change from that point to the end of Korriban is -1.  So we will stay light-aligned if we're already light-aligned.  But if we're at 60, we lose 2 alignment by not lying, for a -3 net alignment on Korriban, which means we wouldn't have enough LSP to equip the Solari-enhanced saber.

So the question becomes, what's the most efficient way to reach 61 alignment before talking to Yuthura?

What I do right now is the following:

- Rescue the Alien informant (52 alignment afterwards, LL (low light action))
- Persuade the drunks (54, LL)
- Rescue the bullied merchant (56, LL)
- Give the merchant 100 credits (60, ML)
- Save the Ithorian from the kids (62, LL)
- Give the Ithorian a medpac (64, ML)
- Threaten Janice Noll for T3 (58, MD)
- Rescue the Duros inside the Sith Base (60, LL)
- Convince Shaardan to spare the Sith hopefuls (62, LL)
- Persuade/Lie to Yuthura (63, LL)

The problem I'm having with this is that the Ithorian part feels really inefficient.  If I skipped that completely, then threatening Janice would only be -4, and after Shaardan I would have 60 alignment, which is almost but not quite enough.  But adding a single Low Light action before Janice won't help at all, since the +2 would be cancelled out by the extra -2 from Janice.

Ideally you'd have either a Mid (or High) Light action before Janice (which is what the Ithorian is right now), or a Low Light (or better) action after Janice (that isn't the Duros).  Here are all the Mid/High Light actions on Taris:

- Give the Ithorian a medpac (ML)
- Give the bullied merchant 100 credits (ML)
- Persuade Holdan to drop Dia's bounty (ML)
- Refuse Dia's reward after helping her (ML)
- Give the Rakghoul Serum to Zelka (ML)
- Give Largo 200 credits (HL)
- Give the Promised Land journals to Rukil (HL)

Of those, the two with Dia are out of the way and behind a Persuade check.  The Promised Land journals are too far out of the way, as is the Rakghoul serum.  We already give the merchant credits.  So it's either the Ithorian or Largo, and the Ithorian is both cheaper and less out of the way (but only slightly less).

The other option is to find a convenient Low Light (or better) action between threatening Janice and talking to Yuthura.  The best candidate on Taris is Persuading Holdan (which can hilariously be done without Persuade if you have Bastila in party), but you have to learn about Dia's bounty from Zax first, then talk to Holdan.  So that feels too inefficient.

I haven't fully tested Dantooine's alignment actions yet, but the Dantooine route is pretty streamlined, and I can't think of a convenient light side action on Dantooine.  Somehow saving Juhani cannot give you LSP...

One possiblilty on Korriban (discounting Shaardan, which we do anyway) is the Sith Thugs that appear after you talk to the guard at the academy.  They're a short way past the cantina (outside the Czerka shop) and Persuading them not to fight you is a Mid Light action.  I've succeeded in that Persuade check with 8 net Persuade, and the conversation is just 1,1.  By my judgment, it is no further out of the way than the Ithorian is on Taris.  So if we added that one, we could be as low as 55 alignment entering Korriban, gain 2 from Shaardan and 4 from that to be at 61 for Yuthura.  That could let us skip a couple LS actions on Taris (namely the Ithorian and saving the Duros), though I'm not sure how tricky the Persuade check is.

Now for the interesting part: if we want to never unequip the Solari-saber but still kill Freyyr, then the easiest way is to be at 60 alignment after talking to Shaardan (which can be done by cutting the Ithorian but still saving the Duros), so that the Mid Light action of Persuading the Sith Thugs gets us to 64.  That will leave us at 63 exiting Korriban, and then killing Freyyr would drop us to 55.  It turns out that saving the Wookiee from the Mandalorians is a Mid Light action; so doing that before leaving the Shadowlands would put us at 59.

Hence we'd need just one extra LS action sometime after Persuading the Sith Thugs.  I can think of a few possibilities, but the best one by far is this: when talking to the Czerka guards on Kashyyyk who killed a Wookiee, if you pick 1,1,2 as the start of your conversation you can then attempt to Persuade or Force Persuade (with Dominate Mind) them to leave their posting.  The amount of LSP appears to depend on whether you succeed in the Persuade check:

- The third conversation choice "I won't allow you to enslave or kill another Wookiee." is a Mid Light action.
- Succeeding in Persuading the guards to request a transfer is a Low Light action.

If we succeed in the Persuade, we get +3 LSP; if we fail we get +2 LSP.  I haven't done much testing, but the straight Persuade is not guaranteed to succeed.  The Force Persuade may be guaranteed.  Either outcome, however, is enough to get us at least 61 after rescuing Grrrwahrr from the Mandalorians.  If Force Persuade is sure to succeed, then we could even skip rescuing the Duros and end up at exactly 60 alignment after rescuing Grrrwahrr.

[/hidden]

The conclusion: Here's an alternate alignment route that should allow us to keep the Solari-saber equipped the entire time after Korriban:

- Rescue the Alien informant (52 alignment afterwards, LL (low light action))
- Persuade the drunks (54, LL)
- Agree to kill Gadon Thek (52, LD)
- Rescue the bullied merchant (54, LL)
- Give the merchant 100 credits (58, ML)
- Threaten Janice Noll for T3 (54, MD)
- Rescue the Duros in the Sith Base (56, LL)
- Convince Shaardan to spare the Sith hopefuls (58, LL)
- Persuade the Sith Thugs not to fight you (62, ML)
- Snitch on Kel Alghwin to Uthar (57, hardcoded -5)
- Spare Yuthura after defeating her (61, ML)
- Persuade the Czerka guards to transfer (64, ML + LL)
- Kill Freyyr (56, HD)
- Rescue Grrrwahrr from the Mandalorians (60, ML, light-aligned)

If we decided we didn't care about keeping Solari equipped after killing Freyyr, we can skip the Czerka guards with a save teleport and skip rescuing Grrrwahrr.  Compared to the old route, swapping the Ithorian and Duros on Taris for the Sith Thugs on Korriban seems slightly more streamlined to me, but I haven't done exact timings.

I haven't sat down and tested this route out fully yet, but I plan to do so today if I do a run.

Edit: The alignment route works perfectly.  I'm still not sure if I'd bother getting the LSP to keep Solari active though.  I'll have to think that over.

indykenobi

Edit history:

indykenobi: 2015-10-24 05:34:30 pm

indykenobi: 2015-10-24 05:23:13 pm

indykenobi: 2015-10-24 12:53:54 pm

2015-10-24 12:45:08 pm

You call this archaeology?

Sorry for the double post, but the last post was really long and this is unrelated.

You can save time on Taris by using Kandon Ark to teleport out of the Vulkar Base by agreeing to kill Gadon Thek. If you use the save buffer to get the swoop accelerator, you can then talk to Kandon, teleport out, and then talk to Zaerdra inside the Hidden Bek base to turn in the accelerator. This saves having to run out of the Vulkar Base manually.

Here's a highlight of the route in action: http://www.twitch.tv/indykenobi/v/22287513

Agreeing to kill Gadon is a Low Dark action, but the alignment route above compensates for that by rescuing the Duros in the Sith Base (again).

Edit: Also if you do this, you can talk to Zaerdra multiple times before Gadon's conversation triggers and clone him. I got 14+ Gadon Theks at once! Cheesy

Edit edit: Towards the end of my run, I had the idea for skipping the trigger that prevents you from entering the Eastern Dune Sea without the map for it. glasnonck confirmed that it works, so now we can skip running to the Sand People Enclave. We can also buy Bantha Fodder from the merchant in the docking bay, so we don't have to kill that random Sand People Warrior. That's another 2 minutes or so saved!

Sorry for the double post, but the last post was really long and this is unrelated.

You can save time on Taris by using Kandon Ark to teleport out of the Vulkar Base by agreeing to kill Gadon Thek.  If you use the save buffer to get the swoop accelerator, you can then talk to Kandon, teleport out, and then talk to Zaerdra inside the Hidden Bek base to turn in the accelerator.  This saves having to run out of the Vulkar Base manually.

Here's a highlight of the route in action: http://www.twitch.tv/indykenobi/v/22287513

Agreeing to kill Gadon is a Low Dark action, but the alignment route above compensates for that by rescuing the Duros in the Sith Base (again).

Edit: Also if you do this, you can talk to Zaerdra multiple times before Gadon's conversation triggers and clone him.  I got 14+ Gadon Theks at once! :D

Edit edit: Towards the end of my run, I had the idea for skipping the trigger that prevents you from entering the Eastern Dune Sea without the map for it.  glasnonck confirmed that it works, so now we can skip running to the Sand People Enclave.  We can also buy Bantha Fodder from the merchant in the docking bay, so we don't have to kill that random Sand People Warrior.  That's another 2 minutes or so saved!

gammadragon

2015-10-25 07:30:35 pm

Might be magic...

I'm enjoying all the recent updates for this. Do you think 1:50 is achievable with all these improvements?

glasnonck

2015-10-25 07:49:42 pm

My latest run clocked in at 1:45:05 game time, 1:53:53 RTA. Sum of best would suggest that sub 1:50 is possible, though.

indykenobi

2015-10-27 09:06:55 am

You call this archaeology?

I've got another almost-break, which doesn't quite seem to work. It would skip Juhani's section of the Leviathan.

When you're getting captured by the Leviathan, you have the Ebon Hawk scenes, then a scene with three Sith Soldiers talking, then a scene where Saul tortures you, then you switch to Juhani. If you do a save buffer after the three Sith Soldiers but before the torture cutscene, then you gain control inside your cell and can run into the next room and trigger the Detention Console, whereupon Bastila congratulates Juhani on freeing you and you can get your gear as usual.

Unfortunately the door out of the detention area is still closed and locked, with an impossible Security check. One idea I've just had while writing this up is whether choosing a different character to escape with might cause that door to have different behavior, but I kind of doubt it. Another possibility would be clipping through the door, since you have Carth and Bastila in your party at that point.

Perhaps someone more talented than I can get that to work.

I've got another almost-break, which doesn't quite seem to work.  It would skip Juhani's section of the Leviathan.

When you're getting captured by the Leviathan, you have the Ebon Hawk scenes, then a scene with three Sith Soldiers talking, then a scene where Saul tortures you, then you switch to Juhani.  If you do a save buffer after the three Sith Soldiers but before the torture cutscene, then you gain control inside your cell and can run into the next room and trigger the Detention Console, whereupon Bastila congratulates Juhani on freeing you and you can get your gear as usual.

Unfortunately the door out of the detention area is still closed and locked, with an impossible Security check.  One idea I've just had while writing this up is whether choosing a different character to escape with might cause that door to have different behavior, but I kind of doubt it.  Another possibility would be clipping through the door, since you have Carth and Bastila in your party at that point.

Perhaps someone more talented than I can get that to work.

glasnonck

2015-10-27 10:15:09 am

I've seen this break before, but I haven't explored any of the other options - asking a different party member to escape with or trying to clip through the door. Luckily, your party doesn't have to stick together in that area to escape by the elevator, so we wouldn't need to get everyone through the door. I'll see if I can figure something out. Also, there's no need to be down on yourself; you've helped improve the run quite a bit!

indykenobi

2015-10-28 07:25:59 pm

You call this archaeology?

There's a couple more almost-breaks that were found a couple days ago, but I figure I should document them here in case someone else wants to mess around with them.

1. On Dantooine, we figured that if you could clip through the door to the ruins, you could skip going to get Juhani. Glasnonck was able to clip through the door using a party, solo mode, and rapid character switching (I think?), but the loading zone wasn't there. So that seems like a dead end.

2. On Manaan, the door to the submersible bay is locked after talking to Roland Wann the first time. It's possible to clip into the door using a save buffer type thing while moving forward; you can then add and remove party members until one ends up inside the submersible bay and use that party member to trigger the sub to go underwater.

You can do everything underwater as usual, but when you get back to the surface that door is still locked, and you can't Return to the Ebon Hawk. But just today I was able to clip back into the door using solo mode and leader switching. Unfortunately the most I could do was talk to Roland Wann; I couldn't figure out how to get back to the other side of the door. But if that worked, we could skip the entire Sith Base section of Manaan.

3. I'm not sure how well this has been tested, but if you could clip through the door into the Sith hangar on Manaan, you could go straight to the Sith Base and skip talking to Roland Wann the first time.

That second one is so close, and yet so far...

There's a couple more almost-breaks that were found a couple days ago, but I figure I should document them here in case someone else wants to mess around with them.

1. On Dantooine, we figured that if you could clip through the door to the ruins, you could skip going to get Juhani.  Glasnonck was able to clip through the door using a party, solo mode, and rapid character switching (I think?), but the loading zone wasn't there.  So that seems like a dead end.

2. On Manaan, the door to the submersible bay is locked after talking to Roland Wann the first time.  It's possible to clip into the door using a save buffer type thing while moving forward; you can then add and remove party members until one ends up inside the submersible bay and use that party member to trigger the sub to go underwater.

You can do everything underwater as usual, but when you get back to the surface that door is still locked, and you can't Return to the Ebon Hawk.  But just today I was able to clip back into the door using solo mode and leader switching.  Unfortunately the most I could do was talk to Roland Wann; I couldn't figure out how to get back to the other side of the door.  But if that worked, we could skip the entire Sith Base section of Manaan.

3. I'm not sure how well this has been tested, but if you could clip through the door into the Sith hangar on Manaan, you could go straight to the Sith Base and skip talking to Roland Wann the first time.

That second one is so close, and yet so far...

AlecK47

2015-10-28 10:50:01 pm

I'm getting more and more excited to get back into this game, I'll have you know... Especially with the skip on Tatooine that hasn't been mentioned here yet. Wink

Once a cable I ordered arrives, I'll be able to record with my DVR and not mess with my game performance. Then, derusting and attempt streams. Smiley

glasnonck

2015-10-29 07:43:50 am

Good point. Indy mentioned that the Tatooine skip exists, but I guess I'll outline it.

When you arrive on Tatooine, purchase Bantha Fodder from the merchant right in front of the Ebon Hawk. Proceed through Tatooine as usual until you exit Anchorhead. Now, instead of going to the Sand People Enclave, head towards the Eastern Dune Sea past the left side of the Sandcrawler. You're not supposed to get to the Eastern Dune Sea without getting a map from the Sand People Chieftain, but there is a way around that restriction. You can either Save Teleport or Save Buffer past the loading zone (as well as the trigger that turns you away). Once on the other side, just enter the loading zone from behind.

This skips vising the Sand People entirely, saving quite a bit of time (2 minutes or so?).

indykenobi

Edit history:

indykenobi: 2015-11-03 06:42:57 pm

2015-11-03 06:39:02 pm

You call this archaeology?

One small additional timesaver: In the Lower Shadowlands, you can save teleport past the trigger for the cutscene where the Mandalorians fight Grrrwahrr, but it's a pretty picky teleport. If you do this, you can then talk to Grrrwahrr to get his LSP without having to fight the Mandalorians. The catch? You also have to save teleport past the trigger on the way out.

I just got my first sub-2 run, and for whatever reason I decided to commentate it. I think it turned out to be a decent "tutorial" of sorts, so I'll link it here. It contains the above skip, as well as all the newer timesaves.

http://www.twitch.tv/indykenobi/v/23877244

I haven't decided yet whether to shoot for an improvement; Taris was pretty bad, and I missed montage skip, but everything else was pretty good (except the Star Forge. Curse you Star Forge).

Edit: Oh, and when we buy the Bantha Fodder on Tatooine, I buy a Breath Mask as well and equip that on the Leviathan. The immunity to Poison helps out with Kinrath on Kashyyyk and with Dark Jedi on the Leviathan/Star Forge.

One small additional timesaver: In the Lower Shadowlands, you can save teleport past the trigger for the cutscene where the Mandalorians fight Grrrwahrr, but it's a pretty picky teleport.  If you do this, you can then talk to Grrrwahrr to get his LSP without having to fight the Mandalorians.  The catch? You also have to save teleport past the trigger on the way out.

I just got my first sub-2 run, and for whatever reason I decided to commentate it.  I think it turned out to be a decent "tutorial" of sorts, so I'll link it here.  It contains the above skip, as well as all the newer timesaves.

http://www.twitch.tv/indykenobi/v/23877244

I haven't decided yet whether to shoot for an improvement; Taris was pretty bad, and I missed montage skip, but everything else was pretty good (except the Star Forge. Curse you Star Forge).

Edit: Oh, and when we buy the Bantha Fodder on Tatooine, I buy a Breath Mask as well and equip that on the Leviathan.  The immunity to Poison helps out with Kinrath on Kashyyyk and with Dark Jedi on the Leviathan/Star Forge.

AlecK47

2015-11-04 02:21:44 pm

I at least attempted that skip with a save buffer at RPGLB. It's definitely finicky, especially if you might save warp instead of just inching forward.

Typically I would get one of the following results if I succeeded:
1: I cancel the fight CS and Grrrwahrr's dialogue never triggers. IIRC this happened most often when my last save (and therefore the load) was near enough to trigger the fight CS but a bit farther from Grrrwahrr, but that may have been as below instead.
2: I cancel the fight and Grrrwahr's dialogue triggers immediately. IIRC this happened when I saved and loaded more or less right in the middle of them. This result is fine, because you can exit the dialogue and heal him after getting the DSP.
3: I completely bypass the fight CS and have to do things as you mention above.
4: I fail the skip entirely and have to watch the CS.

Maybe it wont behave the same for you, but I'd recommend playing around with a save buffer. If nothing else you should be able to get the second result I listed somewhat consistently by approaching at an angle such that a save warp would be blocked by the NPC's.

I at least attempted that skip with a save buffer at RPGLB.  It's definitely finicky, especially if you might save warp instead of just inching forward.

Typically I would get one of the following results if I succeeded:
1: I cancel the fight CS and Grrrwahrr's dialogue never triggers.  IIRC this happened most often when my last save (and therefore the load) was near enough to trigger the fight CS but a bit farther from Grrrwahrr, but that may have been as below instead.
2: I cancel the fight and Grrrwahr's dialogue triggers immediately.  IIRC this happened when I saved and loaded more or less right in the middle of them.  This result is fine, because you can exit the dialogue and heal him after getting the DSP.
3: I completely bypass the fight CS and have to do things as you mention above.
4: I fail the skip entirely and have to watch the CS.

Maybe it wont behave the same for you, but I'd recommend playing around with a save buffer.  If nothing else you should be able to get the second result I listed somewhat consistently by approaching at an angle such that a save warp would be blocked by the NPC's.

glasnonck

2015-11-10 10:40:10 am

Based on my run yesterday, sub 1:40:00 game time and sub 1:50:00 RTA are both possible. That will probably be my goal before moving on to another run. Also, here are a few small time saves that I've found (or just remembered).

Taris:
- Use a map CS skip to avoid talking to the Twi'lek after rescuing Bastila and leaving the apartment.

Dantooine:
- You can save buffer past Belaya to skip her longer conversation. She'll still talk to you later, but it's very short the second time. Probably not worth it.
- Hug the right wall leading to the temple ruins to skip the CS where you walk up tot he door.

Korriban:
- Save buffer to skip talking with Lashowe in Dreshdae.

Manaan:
- Save buffer to skip the conversation between the Republic and Sith soldiers outside the hangar.

Tatooine:
- Save TP past the gizka guy to avoid both his conversation and having gizka on the Ebon Hawk.

indykenobi

2015-11-10 03:41:50 pm

You call this archaeology?

Great, add more save buffers to the run. Just what I need. Tongue

I did a run yesterday that employed a FLU at level 8 to grab Master Speed and Master Two-Weapon Fighting. I triggered it by bringing Carth down to Manaan's ocean floor, Auto-leveling him to 8, and using a footlocker nearby. Carth doesn't get in the way underwater; all the zone transitions are triggered by objects rather than loading zones. Anyway, I FLU'd to 16, got Master Speed, a point in Str, and a bunch of TI, and Master Two-Weapon (and incidentally, Master Force Jump and Master Sense).

Combat was much smoother for the remainder of the run (especially Malak, both on the Leviathan and on the Star Forge). But I also realized how little combat we actually do for the run. So I'm not actually sure if that's worth it or not. You'd have to save around 15 combat rounds over the remainder of the run with Master Speed.

Incidentally I got a 1:59 with that run; I would have PB'd but for an unfortunate encounter with an invincible Shyrack on Korriban.

Great, add more save buffers to the run.  Just what I need. :P

I did a run yesterday that employed a FLU at level 8 to grab Master Speed and Master Two-Weapon Fighting.  I triggered it by bringing Carth down to Manaan's ocean floor, Auto-leveling him to 8, and using a footlocker nearby.  Carth doesn't get in the way underwater; all the zone transitions are triggered by objects rather than loading zones.  Anyway, I FLU'd to 16, got Master Speed, a point in Str, and a bunch of TI, and Master Two-Weapon (and incidentally, Master Force Jump and Master Sense).

Combat was much smoother for the remainder of the run (especially Malak, both on the Leviathan and on the Star Forge).  But I also realized how little combat we actually do for the run.  So I'm not actually sure if that's worth it or not.  You'd have to save around 15 combat rounds over the remainder of the run with Master Speed.

Incidentally I got a 1:59 with that run; I would have PB'd but for an unfortunate encounter with an invincible Shyrack on Korriban.

AlecK47

2015-11-11 11:41:09 am

I'd guess that you'd probably save about half the 15 rounds on average. Plus, I'm guessing that number assumes a quick, first try FLU. As great as it would be for a true single segment run, for RTA it's basically only worth it for marathon safety, if that.

glasnonck

Edit history:

glasnonck: 2015-11-14 08:20:29 pm

glasnonck: 2015-11-12 06:18:54 am

glasnonck: 2015-11-12 06:18:22 am

2015-11-11 07:43:57 pm

So, I just found two mutually exclusive skips on the Star Forge.

The first allows you to skip Dodanna's CS after saving Bastila from the Dark Side. This saves 16 seconds (without counting a crash). All you do is perform a save buffer immediately after the conversation finishes where she is redeemed. Unfortunately, it seems to crash when you load the save, but when you open the game again the load works fine. You don't seem to have enough time to make a quick save if you kill her. The CS on the republic cruiser will not load and you can continue through the door that was locked.

The second allows you to skip the CS after fighting Bastila wherein you talk to Malak and the 6 droids spawn. This saves about 36 seconds. After the Dodanna CS loads, open your map menu and add two party members (say Jolee and Juhani), and then watch the CS. Once you're back, head into the droid room and perform a save buffer while walking up to the door. Make sure your party is with you in the room when you do this save buffer; otherwise, they might be locked inside the room with Bastila. Upon loading your save from the buffer, open the door and position yourself and your party members facing the left or right side of the path next to the Jedi (not between a Jedi and Malak). Continue to walk forward using mouse movement and cycle the party leader. Eventually, one of your party will be placed behind Malak and the two Jedi, at which point they can open the door and proceed to the final Malak fight. Here's a video where I demonstrate the skip:

Just to be clear, if you do the former, you skip the CS that allows the latter. So, the preferred skip would be the second. Maybe taking Zaalbar and Juhani would be best?

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a simple way around the CS that you watch while heading to the Star Forge. It seems as though the cutscene itself is the only way of getting there (galaxy droid pls). Strangely, if you force skip the start of that CS, Dodanna has Bastila's voice. I also wasn't able to find a way around any part of the Malak fight on the Leviathan. You can add party members at the start of the Leviathan Spoiler CS, but the hangar door seems tough enough to make any attempt to clip past it take longer than going through the usual motions.

EDIT: You can also skip the short Spoiler CS on the Leviathan by quick saving right after the Malak conversation before the CS loads. I think loading it immediately causes the game to crash, though.

I still have a few more places that I'd like to look for skips, but I'd be interested to look for more. Any ideas of places to look for a skip?

So, I just found two mutually exclusive skips on the Star Forge.

The first allows you to skip Dodanna's CS after saving Bastila from the Dark Side. This saves 16 seconds (without counting a crash). All you do is perform a save buffer immediately after the conversation finishes where she is redeemed. Unfortunately, it seems to crash when you load the save, but when you open the game again the load works fine. You don't seem to have enough time to make a quick save if you kill her. The CS on the republic cruiser will not load and you can continue through the door that was locked.

The second allows you to skip the CS after fighting Bastila wherein you talk to Malak and the 6 droids spawn. This saves about 36 seconds. After the Dodanna CS loads, open your map menu and add two party members (say Jolee and Juhani), and then watch the CS. Once you're back, head into the droid room and perform a save buffer while walking up to the door. Make sure your party is with you in the room when you do this save buffer; otherwise, they might be locked inside the room with Bastila. Upon loading your save from the buffer, open the door and position yourself and your party members facing the left or right side of the path next to the Jedi (not between a Jedi and Malak). Continue to walk forward using mouse movement and cycle the party leader. Eventually, one of your party will be placed behind Malak and the two Jedi, at which point they can open the door and proceed to the final Malak fight. Here's a video where I demonstrate the skip:

[hidden]https://youtu.be/tJYZe3uvbhQ[/hidden]

Just to be clear, if you do the former, you skip the CS that allows the latter. So, the preferred skip would be the second. Maybe taking Zaalbar and Juhani would be best?

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a simple way around the CS that you watch while heading to the Star Forge. It seems as though the cutscene itself is the only way of getting there (galaxy droid pls). Strangely, if you force skip the start of that CS, Dodanna has Bastila's voice. I also wasn't able to find a way around any part of the Malak fight on the Leviathan. You can add party members at the start of the Leviathan Spoiler CS, but the hangar door seems tough enough to make any attempt to clip past it take longer than going through the usual motions.

EDIT: You can also skip the short Spoiler CS on the Leviathan by quick saving right after the Malak conversation before the CS loads. I think loading it immediately causes the game to crash, though.

I still have a few more places that I'd like to look for skips, but I'd be interested to look for more. Any ideas of places to look for a skip?

glasnonck

Edit history:

glasnonck: 2015-11-14 09:28:54 pm

2015-11-14 09:28:19 pm

Just got a sub 1:40 game time (sub 1:50 RTA) run. The time is 1:38:42 (1:47:57 RTA) which can still be pushed down a bit more, but I with this, I'll be taking a break from running KotOR. I'll still be interested in routing or exploring glitches, though (or practicing for potential marathon showings).

LotBlind

2015-11-15 12:20:03 pm

Hi guys! I just wanna chime in with this: KotOR 1/2 were some of my fave RPGs in many respects and judging by how long this thread has been hovering on the first page I can only expect changes have been made to routes. Looking forward to that submission whenever you're all done! Please consider doing a voice commentary (maybe even a multi-runner commentary) since those make the viewing experience the smoothest! Pls!

Pls! Pls! Pls!

Pls!

-your already-a-fanboy, lotblind

glasnonck

Edit history:

glasnonck: 2015-11-16 06:16:51 pm

2015-11-16 05:48:51 pm

It seems I can't stay away from this game, but I have no one to blame but myself. Grin

I thought of another skip, and verified that it works today. We can finally perform the Manaan Sith Base skip. Here's a link to a twitch VOD where I explain it. This skip avoids having to visit the sith base on Manaan, saving about 2 minutes. It also allows you to head back to the Ebon Hawk right after returning to the Republic Embassy, which would probably account for the time taken to clip through the door in the Republic Embassy. With this new skip, I guess I'll have to do another run to improve my time, although when I do is up in the air.

Notes on the clip:
- With force speed active, save buffer while running into the left corner beside the Republic Embassy door.
- Once the save loads, you should be in the door. If not, try again.
- While still facing the door, add two party members. They should join you inside the door.
- Turn the camera around and try to walk in that direction.
- Return to the Ebon Hawk and Transit Back.
- Now, at least one of your party members should be through the door. Use them to activate the submersible.

It seems I can't stay away from this game, but I have no one to blame but myself. ;D I thought of another skip, and verified that it works today. We can finally perform the Manaan Sith Base skip. Here's a [url=http://www.twitch.tv/glasnonck/v/26172448]link[/url] to a twitch VOD where I explain it. This skip avoids having to visit the sith base on Manaan, saving about 2 minutes. It also allows you to head back to the Ebon Hawk right after returning to the Republic Embassy, which would probably account for the time taken to clip through the door in the Republic Embassy. With this new skip, I guess I'll have to do another run to improve my time, although when I do is up in the air.

Notes on the clip:
- With force speed active, save buffer while running into the left corner beside the Republic Embassy door.
- Once the save loads, you should be in the door. If not, try again.
- While still facing the door, add two party members. They should join you inside the door.
- Turn the camera around and try to walk in that direction.
- Return to the Ebon Hawk and Transit Back.
- Now, at least one of your party members should be through the door. Use them to activate the submersible.

AlecK47

2015-11-16 07:24:10 pm

Quote from LotBlind:

Looking forward to that submission whenever you're all done! Please consider doing a voice commentary (maybe even a multi-runner commentary) since those make the viewing experience the smoothest! Pls!

Once I get back to this game (which should be soon), I'll be going for a submittable recording. Not sure if glasnonck records locally, though.

Quote from glasnonck:

We can finally perform the Manaan Sith Base skip.

I don't even. Back at RPGLB I thought this game had been destroyed. So much to practice... Grin

I knew I should have submitted this to AGDQ even though I wanted to focus on other things for a bit.

indykenobi

Edit history:

indykenobi: 2015-11-16 08:39:04 pm

indykenobi: 2015-11-16 08:29:35 pm

2015-11-16 07:40:43 pm

You call this archaeology?

That's a great find glasnonck. But couldn't you have found it five minutes earlier, and not as I was leaving the Sith base? Tongue

Edit: Fun fact, if you do this trick with Manaan first, Calo Nord won't trigger at all. You don't even have to save buffer past him. However.... he then shows up on whichever planet you do second (well, for me it was Tatooine 2nd). Presumably it would work the same with Manaan third and Darth Bandon.

What I like best about all this new stuff is that it's all pretty consistent (you know, assuming I could save buffer). I was concerned about that door clip on Manaan, but the Return to Ebon Hawk strat seems consistent, so that's nice.

I'm still toying with the Master Speed FLU; I did a run today that did Tatooine first, Manaan second, and Korriban third to try to get Master Speed for the fights on Korriban. I was able to do the FLU right before the tukatas and Lashowe, and that went really smoothly. I also had a one-round Uthar and one-round Yuthura fight, which was nice. The downside is that the fight with the Sand People on Tatooine was much slower, since I was only level 6. I might try to do Manaan first and Tatooine second next and see if that makes that fight better.

That's a great find glasnonck.  But couldn't you have found it five minutes earlier, and not as I was leaving the Sith base? :P

Edit: Fun fact, if you do this trick with Manaan first, Calo Nord won't trigger at all.  You don't even have to save buffer past him.  However.... he then shows up on whichever planet you do second (well, for me it was Tatooine 2nd).  Presumably it would work the same with Manaan third and Darth Bandon.

What I like best about all this new stuff is that it's all pretty consistent (you know, assuming I could save buffer).  I was concerned about that door clip on Manaan, but the Return to Ebon Hawk strat seems consistent, so that's nice.

I'm still toying with the Master Speed FLU; I did a run today that did Tatooine first, Manaan second, and Korriban third to try to get Master Speed for the fights on Korriban.  I was able to do the FLU right before the tukatas and Lashowe, and that went really smoothly.  I also had a one-round Uthar and one-round Yuthura fight, which was nice.  The downside is that the fight with the Sand People on Tatooine was much slower, since I was only level 6.  I might try to do Manaan first and Tatooine second next and see if that makes that fight better.