Kirby's Return to Dreamland Speedrunning

yoshifan

Edit history:

yoshifan: 2012-02-11 03:42:07 pm

yoshifan: 2012-02-11 01:28:44 pm

yoshifan: 2012-02-11 01:24:01 pm

2012-02-11 01:23:23 pm

Cool, thanks for testing 3-4. Glad to know I helped on one part. Tongue

Speaking of helping with strategies, I read some of the suggestions in that GameFAQs thread... spitting an enemy to finish off Grand Doomer? Some pretty clever stuff there.

Also, speaking of any% getting Wing in 1-4, you can get Wing in 1-1 if you use the ability roulette; super-inhale the three Sir Kibbles after the Ultra Sword knight. Here's what I know about the ability roulette so far (I've been meaning to post this sooner or later).

- You start the ability roulette by inhaling 3 or more copy-ability enemies with a single inhale. They don't have to be enemies with different abilities, they just need to have abilities. Inhaling 2 enemies plus 1 discarded ability doesn't start the roulette.

- You can stop the roulette wheel with the 1 button, which gives you the ability that's showing the moment you pressed 1. The game doesn't let you pause with + during the roulette.

- The roulette cycles through 23 abilities: the 20 from the Lor's four ability rooms, Crash, Mike, and Sleep.

- Unlike previous Kirby games, the order that the abilities appear in the roulette seems random. However, it's a true roulette wheel, so the second and third cycles of the wheel have the same ability order as the first cycle. The roulette wheel spins for about 2.5 cycles, meaning each power will show up either 2 or 3 times, and you have 1 or 2 chances to see where an ability is before it shows up for the last time.

- In the first cycle, all but one of the abilities show up for 4 frames; in the second cycle, all abilities show up for 7 frames; in the third cycle, ten abilities show up for 10 frames each, followed by the final ability where the roulette stops. Here's some examples of what the roulette patterns look like.

- While you can't pause with + during the roulette, you can use the HOME button to pause. In fact, avengah at GameFAQs says you can use HOME to pause, see if the ability you want is there, then hold the 1 button as you unpause to get that ability. I believe the HOME button only allows you to pause once every 0.5 to 1 seconds, but that still gives you several chances (need to test to see exactly how many).

Even without the HOME button, I managed to get the ability I wanted (Wing) 2 times in about 10 tries. That's not exactly a lot of data, but I'm still pretty sure you can watch the wheel closely to make your chances a fair bit better than 1 in 23. What I did was watch the first cycle closely for Wing, take my best guess at where Wing ended up, and try to stop the roulette at about the right time in the second cycle. I didn't try using the third cycle that much, since Wing will only show up in the third cycle 11 in 23 times, but it could be worth a shot if you notice that Wing is early in the cycle.

Considering the Sir Kibbles in 1-1 are a little less than 2 minutes into an any% run, doing the roulette for Wing doesn't seem unreasonable once we've polished the strategies more and are really looking to get the best times possible. It'll save the long detour for the 1-4 HAL room, and allow Wing to shine in 1-2 and 1-3.

Cool, thanks for testing 3-4.  Glad to know I helped on one part. :P  Speaking of helping with strategies, I read some of the suggestions in [url=http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/935607-kirbys-return-to-dream-land/61821094]that GameFAQs thread[/url]... spitting an enemy to finish off Grand Doomer?  Some pretty clever stuff there.

Also, speaking of any% getting Wing in 1-4, you can get Wing in 1-1 if you use the ability roulette; super-inhale the three Sir Kibbles after the Ultra Sword knight.  Here's what I know about the ability roulette so far (I've been meaning to post this sooner or later).

- You start the ability roulette by inhaling 3 or more copy-ability enemies with a single inhale.  They don't have to be enemies with different abilities, they just need to have abilities.  Inhaling 2 enemies plus 1 discarded ability doesn't start the roulette.

- You can stop the roulette wheel with the 1 button, which gives you the ability that's showing the moment you pressed 1.  The game doesn't let you pause with + during the roulette.

- The roulette cycles through 23 abilities: the 20 from the Lor's four ability rooms, Crash, Mike, and Sleep.

- Unlike previous Kirby games, the order that the abilities appear in the roulette seems random.  However, it's a true roulette wheel, so the second and third cycles of the wheel have the same ability order as the first cycle.  The roulette wheel spins for about 2.5 cycles, meaning each power will show up either 2 or 3 times, and you have 1 or 2 chances to see where an ability is before it shows up for the last time.

- In the first cycle, all but one of the abilities show up for 4 frames; in the second cycle, all abilities show up for 7 frames; in the third cycle, ten abilities show up for 10 frames each, followed by the final ability where the roulette stops.  [url=http://pastebin.com/wFWveV4z]Here's some examples of what the roulette patterns look like.[/url]

- While you can't pause with + during the roulette, you can use the HOME button to pause.  In fact, [url=http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/935607-kirbys-return-to-dream-land/61870885]avengah at GameFAQs[/url] says you can use HOME to pause, see if the ability you want is there, then hold the 1 button as you unpause to get that ability.  I believe the HOME button only allows you to pause once every 0.5 to 1 seconds, but that still gives you several chances (need to test to see exactly how many).

Even without the HOME button, I managed to get the ability I wanted (Wing) 2 times in about 10 tries.  That's not exactly a lot of data, but I'm still pretty sure you can watch the wheel closely to make your chances a fair bit better than 1 in 23.  What I did was watch the first cycle closely for Wing, take my best guess at where Wing ended up, and try to stop the roulette at about the right time in the second cycle.  I didn't try using the third cycle that much, since Wing will only show up in the third cycle 11 in 23 times, but it could be worth a shot if you notice that Wing is early in the cycle.

Considering the Sir Kibbles in 1-1 are a little less than 2 minutes into an any% run, doing the roulette for Wing doesn't seem unreasonable once we've polished the strategies more and are really looking to get the best times possible.  It'll save the long detour for the 1-4 HAL room, and allow Wing to shine in 1-2 and 1-3.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2012-02-11 06:17:21 pm

kirbymastah: 2012-02-11 01:43:23 pm

2012-02-11 01:42:28 pm

<(^_^)>

haha yeah that's where i got the idea actually, to finish magolor; spitting an enemy does not work at least against magolor since the enemies disappear after the ultra sword hit, but it may work against grand doomer; it wouldn't matter since we can just destroy its barrier, then re-eat wing and finish it with dive bomb.

It doesn't seem unreasonable to put in the roulette wheel in 1-1 in an any%, since we'd be keeping wing the entire run anyways, and yes, we can skip the HAL room detour.

At first, I thought it won't be as helpful for 100%, because you have to lose it for ultra abilities... OR NOT. We can easily just carry wing while having the ultra ability for 1-1 and 1-4.

EDIT: actually, I don't think this'll work... Entering the sphere doomer areas force you to lose your ultra ability. I've never actually tested entering the dimension with a non-ultra ability, though I'm pretty sure you'd lose your ability either way. Sigh...

EDIT2: It's confirmed, you can't enter the dimension with a non-ultra ability. Bummer... so the random roulette really won't be useful for 100% outside of end of 7-2 =/

haha yeah that's where i got the idea actually, to finish magolor; spitting an enemy does not work at least against magolor since the enemies disappear after the ultra sword hit, but it may work against grand doomer; it wouldn't matter since we can just destroy its barrier, then re-eat wing and finish it with dive bomb.

It doesn't seem unreasonable to put in the roulette wheel in 1-1 in an any%, since we'd be keeping wing the entire run anyways, and yes, we can skip the HAL room detour.

At first, I thought it won't be as helpful for 100%, because you have to lose it for ultra abilities... OR NOT. We can easily just carry wing while having the ultra ability for 1-1 and 1-4.

EDIT: actually, I don't think this'll work... Entering the sphere doomer areas force you to lose your ultra ability. I've never actually tested entering the dimension with a non-ultra ability, though I'm pretty sure you'd lose your ability either way. Sigh...

EDIT2: It's confirmed, you can't enter the dimension with a non-ultra ability. Bummer... so the random roulette really won't be useful for 100% outside of end of 7-2 =/

yoshifan

Edit history:

yoshifan: 2012-02-11 09:53:11 pm

2012-02-11 09:51:52 pm

Quote from kirbymastah:

It's confirmed, you can't enter the dimension with a non-ultra ability. Bummer... so the random roulette really won't be useful for 100% outside of end of 7-2 =/

I just confirmed this too - entering the dimension gets rid of your ability, and also makes you drop any ability you're carrying as a star. Ah well.

World 5 comments:

5-1 has some pretty awesome Ninja skills, and a couple of good uses of the dive bomb's upward movement.

5-2 (3:53) - Oh wow, I could've sworn I tried that condor head through the door... maybe I didn't wait for the door to open fully before trying it. Nice!

5-2 (4:37) - Holy crap, didn't think Moundo was tall enough for that. Nice job using the side of the screen to keep you from edging backwards.

5-2 (5:31) - Yeah, I just recently noticed that super inhaling super-ability enemies seems a tiny bit faster, because the game never lets you inhale them quickly otherwise. Also, nice dodge of the Scarfy, I was wondering what the best method was for them.

5-2 (7:11) - You can do the Parasol Twirl (down+1) on Sphere Doomer when he's still waiting at the side. It doesn't look like it'd reach high enough, but it does reach; might do one or two hits less than usual, but still good damage.

5-3 (9:51) - You can break this bomb block with Parasol, so you don't need to get Beam.

5-3 (10:00) - I'm usually able to rush past these two enemies without waiting, but getting eaten loses even more time, so either way really.

5-3 (10:27) - Air pellets between hi-jumps? That's an awesome idea!

5-4 (12:13) - I've actually been hit by the Kabu (brown enemy) when jumping here before, heh. That was not good because I lost the boot and couldn't get the sphere... so I usually just press 1 to get out of the boot once I'm all the way to the left at the Gordos. That's just me though.

5-4 (14:53) - Here, I usually shoot an air pellet at the top-left star block, then slide through the other top star blocks. I guess it wouldn't have helped much with this particular moving block timing, though.

5-4 (15:38) - gsk from GameFAQs pretty much covered Spear better than I could, though it's worth noting that getting consecutive Spear throws on Sphere Doomer can be kind of annoying. If you do two Spear throws as fast as possible, the second one won't hit, so you have to wait a bit before tossing the next one. This makes it hard, but I think still possible, to get three Spears in one jump. Otherwise, just two per jump should be good enough.

5-5 (17:25) - ...you can carry abilities through doors, too? Oh man. I wonder how this compares to just doing Spin Slashes on Moundo, though.

5-5 (18:02) - You can break through 4 steel blocks if you get a running start and good timing on your sliding Stone attack. I'm kinda bad at it though.

5-5 (18:40) - For the lava blocks, you can also rainbow in from the side; you have to stand pretty close to the lava blocks to break 3 columns of blocks with one rainbow, so shoot one water shot to cool the outermost lava block first so you can safely press right next to it for the rainbow. I'm not sure if it's faster though, and your strategy is cooler...

5-Boss (20:45) - Heh, this chain of dive bombs was great. Going backwards actually works in your favor.

5-Boss (21:34) - I generally wouldn't try for it myself, but it's worth noting that you can hit Grand Doomer after he finishes spawning the enemies, in the tiny window after his final appearing animation and RIGHT before he jumps too far into the background. There's a problem, though: I don't know if there's a pattern to how many times he appears/disappears, so I always miss a bunch of swings by guessing early on when he's going into the background. (Also, good luck doing this while still paying enough attention to keep Wing around.)

[quote="kirbymastah"]It's confirmed, you can't enter the dimension with a non-ultra ability. Bummer... so the random roulette really won't be useful for 100% outside of end of 7-2 =/[/quote]
I just confirmed this too - entering the dimension gets rid of your ability, and also makes you drop any ability you're carrying as a star.  Ah well.

World 5 comments:

5-1 has some pretty awesome Ninja skills, and a couple of good uses of the dive bomb's upward movement.

5-2 (3:53) - Oh wow, I could've sworn I tried that condor head through the door... maybe I didn't wait for the door to open fully before trying it.  Nice!

5-2 (4:37) - Holy crap, didn't think Moundo was tall enough for that.  Nice job using the side of the screen to keep you from edging backwards.

5-2 (5:31) - Yeah, I just recently noticed that super inhaling super-ability enemies seems a tiny bit faster, because the game never lets you inhale them quickly otherwise.  Also, nice dodge of the Scarfy, I was wondering what the best method was for them.

5-2 (7:11) - You can do the Parasol Twirl (down+1) on Sphere Doomer when he's still waiting at the side.  It doesn't look like it'd reach high enough, but it does reach; might do one or two hits less than usual, but still good damage.

5-3 (9:51) - You can break this bomb block with Parasol, so you don't need to get Beam.

5-3 (10:00) - I'm usually able to rush past these two enemies without waiting, but getting eaten loses even more time, so either way really.

5-3 (10:27) - Air pellets between hi-jumps?  That's an awesome idea!

5-4 (12:13) - I've actually been hit by the Kabu (brown enemy) when jumping here before, heh.  That was not good because I lost the boot and couldn't get the sphere... so I usually just press 1 to get out of the boot once I'm all the way to the left at the Gordos.  That's just me though.

5-4 (14:53) - Here, I usually shoot an air pellet at the top-left star block, then slide through the other top star blocks.  I guess it wouldn't have helped much with this particular moving block timing, though.

5-4 (15:38) - gsk from GameFAQs pretty much covered Spear better than I could, though it's worth noting that getting consecutive Spear throws on Sphere Doomer can be kind of annoying.  If you do two Spear throws as fast as possible, the second one won't hit, so you have to wait a bit before tossing the next one.  This makes it hard, but I think still possible, to get three Spears in one jump.  Otherwise, just two per jump should be good enough.

5-5 (17:25) - ...you can carry abilities through doors, too?  Oh man.  I wonder how this compares to just doing Spin Slashes on Moundo, though.

5-5 (18:02) - You can break through 4 steel blocks if you get a running start and good timing on your sliding Stone attack.  I'm kinda bad at it though.

5-5 (18:40) - For the lava blocks, you can also rainbow in from the side; you have to stand pretty close to the lava blocks to break 3 columns of blocks with one rainbow, so shoot one water shot to cool the outermost lava block first so you can safely press right next to it for the rainbow.  I'm not sure if it's faster though, and your strategy is cooler...

5-Boss (20:45) - Heh, this chain of dive bombs was great.  Going backwards actually works in your favor.

5-Boss (21:34) - I generally wouldn't try for it myself, but it's worth noting that you can hit Grand Doomer after he finishes spawning the enemies, in the tiny window after his final appearing animation and RIGHT before he jumps too far into the background.  There's a problem, though: I don't know if there's a pattern to how many times he appears/disappears, so I always miss a bunch of swings by guessing early on when he's going into the background.  (Also, good luck doing this while still paying enough attention to keep Wing around.)

kirbymastah

2012-02-12 12:22:34 pm

<(^_^)>

5-1 has some pretty awesome Ninja skills, and a couple of good uses of the dive bomb's upward movement.

5-1 ninja section is REALLY scary, simply because of the chance of suiciding with that darn air drop attack. So I make sure that I’m far enough from enemies before dash attacking.

5-2 (3:53) - Oh wow, I could've sworn I tried that condor head through the door... maybe I didn't wait for the door to open fully before trying it. Nice!

Yeah, at first I only got it with like 20% consistency because I always tried to condor head immediately after hitting the switch… You’re right, you want to wait for the door to fully open, then with a little practice, you can easily get that trick 100% of the time. I’m pretty sure dive bombing right afterwards to get the bomb block below would be faster… It didn’t come to my mind.

5-2 (4:37) - Holy crap, didn't think Moundo was tall enough for that. Nice job using the side of the screen to keep you from edging backwards.

You can do this against all minibosses, actually. Against Dubior, you want to drop yourself in the top corner. Against Water Galboros, you actually do NOT want to use the side of the screen… you’ll see why in one of the level 7s.

5-2 (7:11) - You can do the Parasol Twirl (down+1) on Sphere Doomer when he's still waiting at the side. It doesn't look like it'd reach high enough, but it does reach; might do one or two hits less than usual, but still good damage.

That might be useful; after all, I always want to damage sphere doomer almost to 50% before he dives down, because hitting 50% activates it using his ‘invincible’ attacks, so it’ll only take half damage.

5-3 (9:51) - You can break this bomb block with Parasol, so you don't need to get Beam.

Useful! Thanks!

5-3 (10:00) - I'm usually able to rush past these two enemies without waiting, but getting eaten loses even more time, so either way really.

Well since I realize you can keep parasol here, and because of its safe invincible dash attacks…

5-3 (10:27) - Air pellets between hi-jumps? That's an awesome idea!

Thanks! It does eliminate a little lag and let you keep your altitude, so it usually saves time/distance. There are a few cases where you don’t want to do this though, like in 2-3, because if you do air pellets, you’ll overshoot the door in the last hi jump.

5-4 (12:13) - I've actually been hit by the Kabu (brown enemy) when jumping here before, heh. That was not good because I lost the boot and couldn't get the sphere... so I usually just press 1 to get out of the boot once I'm all the way to the left at the Gordos. That's just me though.

I never got hit before, so I took it risky… Until my last attempt last night. I guess it depends on whether the kabu is above you or not; and losing the shoe isn’t really a run killer, since it respawns (though it still really sucks).

5-5 (17:25) - ...you can carry abilities through doors, too? Oh man. I wonder how this compares to just doing Spin Slashes on Moundo, though.

I’m personally not a fan of sword; I personally think it’s really weak. I may try out the spin slash method though, but I’m pretty sure fighter is faster (it’s definitely one of the best boss-slaying abilities on the ground)

5-5 (18:02) - You can break through 4 steel blocks if you get a running start and good timing on your sliding Stone attack. I'm kinda bad at it though.

Yep, I’ve done it before; it’s pretty tough to time because of the lack of open space though <_<

5-5 (18:40) - For the lava blocks, you can also rainbow in from the side; you have to stand pretty close to the lava blocks to break 3 columns of blocks with one rainbow, so shoot one water shot to cool the outermost lava block first so you can safely press right next to it for the rainbow. I'm not sure if it's faster though, and your strategy is cooler...

That’s definitely something worth testing… Though I’m sure after getting the energy sphere, it’s faster to just rainbow the fire blocks on the right so you can just dash through instead of floating over slowly.

[i]5-1 has some pretty awesome Ninja skills, and a couple of good uses of the dive bomb's upward movement.[/i]

5-1 ninja section is REALLY scary, simply because of the chance of suiciding with that darn air drop attack. So I make sure that I’m far enough from enemies before dash attacking.

[i]5-2 (3:53) - Oh wow, I could've sworn I tried that condor head through the door... maybe I didn't wait for the door to open fully before trying it.  Nice![/i]

Yeah, at first I only got it with like 20% consistency because I always tried to condor head immediately after hitting the switch… You’re right, you want to wait for the door to fully open, then with a little practice, you can easily get that trick 100% of the time. I’m pretty sure dive bombing right afterwards to get the bomb block below would be faster… It didn’t come to my mind.

[i]5-2 (4:37) - Holy crap, didn't think Moundo was tall enough for that.  Nice job using the side of the screen to keep you from edging backwards.[/i]

You can do this against all minibosses, actually. Against Dubior, you want to drop yourself in the top corner. Against Water Galboros, you actually do NOT want to use the side of the screen… you’ll see why in one of the level 7s.

[i]5-2 (7:11) - You can do the Parasol Twirl (down+1) on Sphere Doomer when he's still waiting at the side.  It doesn't look like it'd reach high enough, but it does reach; might do one or two hits less than usual, but still good damage.[/i]

That might be useful; after all, I always want to damage sphere doomer almost to 50% before he dives down, because hitting 50% activates it using his ‘invincible’ attacks, so it’ll only take half damage.

[i]5-3 (9:51) - You can break this bomb block with Parasol, so you don't need to get Beam.[/i]

Useful! Thanks!

[i]5-3 (10:00) - I'm usually able to rush past these two enemies without waiting, but getting eaten loses even more time, so either way really.[/i]

Well since I realize you can keep parasol here, and because of its safe invincible dash attacks…

[i]5-3 (10:27) - Air pellets between hi-jumps?  That's an awesome idea![/i]

Thanks! It does eliminate a little lag and let you keep your altitude, so it usually saves time/distance. There are a few cases where you don’t want to do this though, like in 2-3, because if you do air pellets, you’ll overshoot the door in the last hi jump.

[i]5-4 (12:13) - I've actually been hit by the Kabu (brown enemy) when jumping here before, heh.  That was not good because I lost the boot and couldn't get the sphere... so I usually just press 1 to get out of the boot once I'm all the way to the left at the Gordos.  That's just me though.[/i]

I never got hit before, so I took it risky… Until my last attempt last night. I guess it depends on whether the kabu is above you or not; and losing the shoe isn’t really a run killer, since it respawns (though it still really sucks).

[i]5-5 (17:25) - ...you can carry abilities through doors, too?  Oh man.  I wonder how this compares to just doing Spin Slashes on Moundo, though.[/i]

I’m personally not a fan of sword; I personally think it’s really weak. I may try out the spin slash method though, but I’m pretty sure fighter is faster (it’s definitely one of the best boss-slaying abilities on the ground)

[i]5-5 (18:02) - You can break through 4 steel blocks if you get a running start and good timing on your sliding Stone attack.  I'm kinda bad at it though.[/i]

Yep, I’ve done it before; it’s pretty tough to time because of the lack of open space though <_<

[i]5-5 (18:40) - For the lava blocks, you can also rainbow in from the side; you have to stand pretty close to the lava blocks to break 3 columns of blocks with one rainbow, so shoot one water shot to cool the outermost lava block first so you can safely press right next to it for the rainbow.  I'm not sure if it's faster though, and your strategy is cooler...[/i]

That’s definitely something worth testing… Though I’m sure after getting the energy sphere, it’s faster to just rainbow the fire blocks on the right so you can just dash through instead of floating over slowly.

yoshifan

Edit history:

yoshifan: 2012-02-12 09:30:48 pm

yoshifan: 2012-02-12 09:28:48 pm

2012-02-12 09:26:52 pm

Main mode 100% in 2:59:10, single segment:

http://twitch.tv/yoshifan28/b/308404730

Sub 3! This went better than I expected, especially since I didn't have to restart any levels due to forgotten or missed spheres. I did have 1 death on the Item Challenge though (some forgetfulness at the cannon section...). Overall, a lot of little mistakes and strategy mishaps, but nothing too bad considering that I haven't practiced a whole lot.

Well, once I look over the rest of your videos, I plan to start doing more in-depth testing/timing of things, and polishing strats. The fun part!

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2012-02-13 08:38:29 am

2012-02-13 08:30:04 am

<(^_^)>

haha, i saw the end of the run on live stream! congrats! I was actually trying out my own single-segment at the time, and it was actually going better than my test run (which is ridiculous), outside of losing spear in 4-3 (meaning I had to start over the level... which isn't too bad since the spear part is at the beginning). Then I lost wing at the start of 7-1. <_<

I'll have to watch your run and make a few (i mean a ton) of comments about it Tongue

haha, but no deaths is pretty huge (besides the item challenge).

One thing I noticed while running this game: Using an aerial mobile attack (Aka burning, condor head, etc) up a slope on the ground really helps your speed for some reason I can't explain... I think the horizontal speed up the slope stays the same or something, meaning the vertical speed up a slope is added on and the overall diagonal speed increases.

But it's the opposite while hugging a ceiling that's sloping downwards. I try to avoid hugging the ceiling in descending-tunnel sections (like 7-1, 2-1, etc) for that reason. Kinda weird, but interesting to note.

haha, i saw the end of the run on live stream! congrats! I was actually trying out my own single-segment at the time, and it was actually going better than my test run (which is ridiculous), outside of losing spear in 4-3 (meaning I had to start over the level... which isn't too bad since the spear part is at the beginning). Then I lost wing at the start of 7-1. <_<

I'll have to watch your run and make a few (i mean a ton) of comments about it :P haha, but no deaths is pretty huge (besides the item challenge).

One thing I noticed while running this game: Using an aerial mobile attack (Aka burning, condor head, etc) up a slope on the ground really helps your speed for some reason I can't explain... I think the horizontal speed up the slope stays the same or something, meaning the vertical speed up a slope is added on and the overall diagonal speed increases.

But it's the opposite while hugging a ceiling that's sloping downwards. I try to avoid hugging the ceiling in descending-tunnel sections (like 7-1, 2-1, etc) for that reason. Kinda weird, but interesting to note.

Sir VG

2012-02-13 09:17:57 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote from yoshifan:

Main mode 100% in 2:59:10, single segment:

http://twitch.tv/yoshifan28/b/308404730

Sub 3! This went better than I expected, especially since I didn't have to restart any levels due to forgotten or missed spheres. I did have 1 death on the Item Challenge though (some forgetfulness at the cannon section...). Overall, a lot of little mistakes and strategy mishaps, but nothing too bad considering that I haven't practiced a whole lot.

Well, once I look over the rest of your videos, I plan to start doing more in-depth testing/timing of things, and polishing strats. The fun part!

Damn, that final boss fight was PRO. I initially thought the small sword was a mistake. SURPRISE! Smiley

kirbymastah

2012-02-13 10:18:09 am

<(^_^)>

another thing to test:

It takes probably 20-30 seconds to grab hammer before 7-4 because of the cutscenes to open the door, and in my original route it wasn't a big deal since I went to the ability rooms for wing anyways after world 5. But now that we can beat grand doomer with wing, we only visit the ability room once if we want to grab hammer.

Landia: The 1st phase seems to be about even for an ideal wing and hammer; second phase is less luck-reliant and usually faster with wing though
Magolor: Hammer can finish him off before he shoots that big beam of death; wing can finish him off during that beam.
Magolor Soul: In phase 1, Hammer can easily beat him before he teleports into the background; it's much tougher for wing since wing can't hit him multiple times while he moves across the screen. In phase 2, hammer beats him right after his second sword swing, ideally. Wing loses considerable time here since it can't do close to as much damage as hammer in one shot (as in, do 80 damage for a split second that he's vulnerable before swinging his swords). I'm pretty sure an ideal fight can finish him before his next background attack though.

Pretty much, wing means no ability room detour, faster pre-boss rooms, and slightly better landia fight. Hammer means a 20-30 second detour, but somewhat faster magolor fight, and considerably faster magolor soul fight. Hm...

another thing to test:

It takes probably 20-30 seconds to grab hammer before 7-4 because of the cutscenes to open the door, and in my original route it wasn't a big deal since I went to the ability rooms for wing anyways after world 5. But now that we can beat grand doomer with wing, we only visit the ability room once if we want to grab hammer.

Landia: The 1st phase seems to be about even for an ideal wing and hammer; second phase is less luck-reliant and usually faster with wing though
Magolor: Hammer can finish him off before he shoots that big beam of death; wing can finish him off during that beam.
Magolor Soul: In phase 1, Hammer can easily beat him before he teleports into the background; it's much tougher for wing since wing can't hit him multiple times while he moves across the screen. In phase 2, hammer beats him right after his second sword swing, ideally. Wing loses considerable time here since it can't do close to as much damage as hammer in one shot (as in, do 80 damage for a split second that he's vulnerable before swinging his swords). I'm pretty sure an ideal fight can finish him before his next background attack though.

Pretty much, wing means no ability room detour, faster pre-boss rooms, and slightly better landia fight. Hammer means a 20-30 second detour, but somewhat faster magolor fight, and considerably faster magolor soul fight. Hm...

kirbymastah

2012-02-23 10:29:59 am

<(^_^)>

something to ask about:

I've been trying out 1-1 for any% and trying to get wing from the roulette with the 3 sir kibbles... With home abuse, I can get it about 40%ish of the time, and also by somewhat predicting when wing will come by knowing what came before it (this is REALLY hard though). Would a run be accepted on SDA with home abuse to get wing?

kirbymastah

2012-02-25 12:23:35 am

<(^_^)>

I finished a pretty sloppy 100% speed run with new routes (and I was out of practice, haven't practiced 100% in over a week) and... Got a final time of 2:54:13: Sub 2:50 is definitely within reach, though sub 2:45 seems rather hopeful... We'll need to find more route improvements to achieve 2:45 hours.

Here's a comparison between my test run and this run:

Time Check : Test Run / SS Run
Finishing World 1 & Entering World 2: 15:07 / 14:35
Finishing World 2 & Entering World 3: 33:30 / 32:41
Finishing World 3 & Entering World 4: 58:13 / 56:55
Finishing World 4 & Entering World 5: 1:21:43 / 1:21:30
Finishing World 5 & Entering World 6: 1:45:26 / 1:44:51
Finishing World 6 & Entering World 7: 2:09:45 / 2:09:50
Finishing World 7 & Entering Lor Starcutter (for Challenge Rooms): 2:32:51 / 2:33:42
Finishing Challenge Rooms & Entering World 7 (for final bosses): 2:42:56 / 2:43:54
FINAL TIME: 2:52:04 / 2:54:13

Pretty much, due to route changes, my SS run practically kept up with my test run until the very end. Here are the route changes I made to the test run:

1-1: I grab cutter at the first screen. This alone saved quite a bit of time, as you probably noticed in the comparison above.

3-4: I tried the route that yoshifan suggested, and it's faster for sure. I skip water, and grab spear in the screen afterwards (with the 3rd energy sphere). It lets me take damage boosts by the spike balls, plow downward through the blocks in the next screen, not have to deal with the annoying slow acceleration for Water in the bomb section, and I don't need to re-grab spear since I need it for the last energy sphere anyways.

4-2: Before the sphere doomer, yoshifan suggested carrying the cannon to kill the sphere doomer with it. I'm pretty sure using it is noticeably faster than Quad Shocking it to death (I'd still grab ninja though), despite not being able to spam slide attacks. So I'd stick to using the cannon.

5-2: After fighting Moundo, I carry the wing ability after eating him. Even though I have to lose my ability for Flare Beam in the next screen anyways, there's quite a bit of horizontal movement needed (aka I used at least 10 more dash attacks... lotsa time saved) for the next energy sphere; I carry Wing, toss it between the two stakes, pound them with stone, then eat Wing and pwn.

5-3: I keep parasol after the first energy sphere; like yoshifan pointed out, I can use parasol to get to the screen with the second energy sphere, and parasol > beam for speed running anyways.

5-B: I do the trick to keep my Wing ability around while using Ultra Sword, so I can skip the slashing cutscene against Grand Doomer, and keep Wing for 6-1, eliminating the need to visit the ability rooms.

6-4: For the last energy sphere, I keep parasol (yeah, I know, in my test run I lost it, but my original route was to replace it with spark anyways). I grab spark in the dark room to get the key, them re-absorb parasol to make the start of 6-5 faster.

7-2: Instead of grabbing tornado in the falling-ceiling section, I grab a cannon... I'm not sure if this is faster, but the point is to slay Super Bonkers with the cannon. I think using tornado is still faster though...

Also, I learned that pressing down+1 while carrying something lets Kirby drop it immediately. I never knew this until recently, and it's faster than tossing it for sure. Also, you can drop a key right in front of a locked door to open it in the air, whereas if you carry it, you can only open it when you're STANDING next to it. Saves a fraction of a second per door.

Ok, about the run itself... It stunk. Well, world 1-2 were amazing, world 5 and 7 were also great. I lost my ability pretty often in world 3 (i hate that world...) but they're at spots that aren't run-killers.

I died in level 4-2... Yeah, you know where I mentioned the cannon? I was carrying it and missed a jump and died; it's not terribly costly, so I kept going.
And against Metal General... I got hit, sucked in wing, and SPAT IT. DANG IT. That's an entire minute lost right there, since I couldn't finish him before he jumped into the background for his ridiculously long missile animation. And then this costed more time since I had to go to the ability rooms to get Wing.
I lost my Hammer against Magolor while using Ultra Sword... Meaning I sat through the dueling / swinging animation, and I had to wait for Magolor Soul to give me hammer back, meaning I couldn't finish his 1st phase before he went into the background for his long animation. X_X

Those mistakes themselves add up to at least 3 minutes right there. There were definitely lots of small mistakes as well, but I'm surprised that this run kept up with my test run... The fail against Magolor costed the most time for sure, which is why the time difference widened by practically a minute after the challenge rooms X_X

I finished a pretty sloppy 100% speed run with new routes (and I was out of practice, haven't practiced 100% in over a week) and... Got a final time of 2:54:13: Sub 2:50 is definitely within reach, though sub 2:45 seems rather hopeful... We'll need to find more route improvements to achieve 2:45 hours.

Here's a comparison between my test run and this run:

Time Check : Test Run / SS Run
Finishing World 1 & Entering World 2: 15:07 / 14:35
Finishing World 2 & Entering World 3: 33:30 / 32:41
Finishing World 3 & Entering World 4: 58:13 / 56:55
Finishing World 4 & Entering World 5: 1:21:43 / 1:21:30
Finishing World 5 & Entering World 6: 1:45:26 / 1:44:51
Finishing World 6 & Entering World 7: 2:09:45 / 2:09:50
Finishing World 7 & Entering Lor Starcutter (for Challenge Rooms): 2:32:51 / 2:33:42
Finishing Challenge Rooms & Entering World 7 (for final bosses): 2:42:56 / 2:43:54
[b]FINAL TIME:[/b] 2:52:04 / 2:54:13

Pretty much, due to route changes, my SS run practically kept up with my test run until the very end. Here are the route changes I made to the test run:

1-1: I grab cutter at the first screen. This alone saved quite a bit of time, as you probably noticed in the comparison above.

3-4: I tried the route that yoshifan suggested, and it's faster for sure. I skip water, and grab spear in the screen afterwards (with the 3rd energy sphere). It lets me take damage boosts by the spike balls, plow downward through the blocks in the next screen, not have to deal with the annoying slow acceleration for Water in the bomb section, and I don't need to re-grab spear since I need it for the last energy sphere anyways.

4-2: Before the sphere doomer, yoshifan suggested carrying the cannon to kill the sphere doomer with it. I'm pretty sure using it is noticeably faster than Quad Shocking it to death (I'd still grab ninja though), despite not being able to spam slide attacks. So I'd stick to using the cannon.

5-2: After fighting Moundo, I carry the wing ability after eating him. Even though I have to lose my ability for Flare Beam in the next screen anyways, there's quite a bit of horizontal movement needed (aka I used at least 10 more dash attacks... lotsa time saved) for the next energy sphere; I carry Wing, toss it between the two stakes, pound them with stone, then eat Wing and pwn.

5-3: I keep parasol after the first energy sphere; like yoshifan pointed out, I can use parasol to get to the screen with the second energy sphere, and parasol > beam for speed running anyways.

5-B: I do the trick to keep my Wing ability around while using Ultra Sword, so I can skip the slashing cutscene against Grand Doomer, and keep Wing for 6-1, eliminating the need to visit the ability rooms.

6-4: For the last energy sphere, I keep parasol (yeah, I know, in my test run I lost it, but my original route was to replace it with spark anyways). I grab spark in the dark room to get the key, them re-absorb parasol to make the start of 6-5 faster.

7-2: Instead of grabbing tornado in the falling-ceiling section, I grab a cannon... I'm not sure if this is faster, but the point is to slay Super Bonkers with the cannon. I think using tornado is still faster though...

Also, I learned that pressing down+1 while carrying something lets Kirby drop it immediately. I never knew this until recently, and it's faster than tossing it for sure. Also, you can drop a key right in front of a locked door to open it in the air, whereas if you carry it, you can only open it when you're STANDING next to it. Saves a fraction of a second per door.

Ok, about the run itself... It stunk. Well, world 1-2 were amazing, world 5 and 7 were also great. I lost my ability pretty often in world 3 (i hate that world...) but they're at spots that aren't run-killers.

I died in level 4-2... Yeah, you know where I mentioned the cannon? I was carrying it and missed a jump and died; it's not terribly costly, so I kept going.
And against Metal General... I got hit, sucked in wing, and SPAT IT. DANG IT. That's an entire minute lost right there, since I couldn't finish him before he jumped into the background for his ridiculously long missile animation. And then this costed more time since I had to go to the ability rooms to get Wing.
I lost my Hammer against Magolor while using Ultra Sword... Meaning I sat through the dueling / swinging animation, and I had to wait for Magolor Soul to give me hammer back, meaning I couldn't finish his 1st phase before he went into the background for his long animation. X_X

Those mistakes themselves add up to at least 3 minutes right there. There were definitely lots of small mistakes as well, but I'm surprised that this run kept up with my test run... The fail against Magolor costed the most time for sure, which is why the time difference widened by practically a minute after the challenge rooms X_X

yoshifan

2012-02-25 02:47:22 am

Wow, that's exciting news!! Congrats on the run! Smiley

2:54 SS is great progress. Even if it's still quite improvable as you say, coming that close to your segmented test run is pretty awesome.

Quote:

5-2: After fighting Moundo, I carry the wing ability after eating him. Even though I have to lose my ability for Flare Beam in the next screen anyways, there's quite a bit of horizontal movement needed (aka I used at least 10 more dash attacks... lotsa time saved) for the next energy sphere; I carry Wing, toss it between the two stakes, pound them with stone, then eat Wing and pwn.

Good stuff. I thought of keeping Wing around after pounding the stakes, but for some reason I figured there was almost nothing between that and Flare Beam. Yeah, now that you mention it, there's a reasonable amount of horizontal ground to cover.

Quote:

Also, I learned that pressing down+1 while carrying something lets Kirby drop it immediately. I never knew this until recently, and it's faster than tossing it for sure. Also, you can drop a key right in front of a locked door to open it in the air, whereas if you carry it, you can only open it when you're STANDING next to it. Saves a fraction of a second per door.

I once knew about down+1 to drop something, but totally forgot about it, heh. And I didn't imagine it would help on locked doors like that, that is pretty cool. Those fractions of seconds saved can certainly add up.

I watched more of your videos yesterday and today; here's my comments on Worlds 1, 2, and 6. Sorry about not getting around to commenting on these earlier. You probably are doing some of my better suggestions already, but hopefully I'll still have some useful tidbits.

World 1 comments:

Some of this might be redundant if you saw enough of my 1-1 and 1-2 practice stream, but I'll talk about those levels anyway.

1-1 (0:51) - I've been debating between three methods for these little gaps: dashing, multiple slides (like this), or cutter dashing. It's on a long list of things to time properly...

1-1 (1:40) - What I try to do here is super-inhale the Ultra Sword knight plus the two Waddle Dees. That way, I get the Waddle Dees out of the way. Probably not much of a difference though.

1-1 (1:53) - Ah, nice forward boost. What I did was shoot air pellets at all three Bronto Burts, but I'll leave that as an Extra strategy now.

1-1 (2:26) - Try shooting an air pellet at the lower Waddle Dee to knock him off the block, then use his block to jump.

1-1 (3:04) - I think I've got the second half of this fight figured out now. When Sphere Doomer goes into the background, go near the edge of the screen and start an Inferno. Sphere Doomer should move more toward the side of the screen (instead of the center like usual) to aim for you, but he'll never aim all the way to the edge of the screen, so you can still dodge him this way. When he swoops in, he'll get hit by Inferno, then he'll get hit again as soon as he comes back to the foreground (as long as you're on the correct side; for me, he usually appears on the same side that he was before, but I dunno why he appeared on the opposite side in your run here). That'll finish him.

1-2 (5:27) - I didn't think of it during my recent practice stream, but it's probably best to stand at the part between the spiders, dash jump right, and then Burn straight into the Energy Sphere. That'll allow you to Burn back left to the door.

1-2 (5:47) - I didn't mention during my practice stream, but I just learned about keeping Fire here when I saw this part of your video. Good stuff. (It's even better if your power bounces to the right, though. :P)

1-3 (8:25) - Oh cool, nice idea about not letting the Sword Knight respawn.

1-4 (11:43) - Hmm, might save a second if you only inhale the two gray blocks, and avoid eating the spider and yellow blocks.

1-4 (11:51) - Heh, I didn't even realize the large spiders died to one air pellet. Forgot that scaled-up enemies don't actually have more HP.

1-Boss (13:33) - That's a nifty idea about delaying the Inferno attack. Another idea to try for that bit of extra damage: jump toward Whispy with a Spinning Fire Breath at the start of the fight (since you need to get a bit closer to him for the Inferno anyway).

World 2 comments:

2-1 (0:59) - You're good at finding nice spots for Fireball Rolls. Smiley

2-2 (3:57) - Man, I didn't even think of getting Stone this late. I got it at the beginning of the screen.

2-2 (4:47) - Maybe you shot close to the first frame you entered, thus not giving you enough time to turn up?

2-2 (5:14) - Nice use of the aerial down+1 Water move here.

2-2 (5:22) - It's possible to pass the flames in time, but yeah, it's tricky to pull off.

2-2 (6:06) - Same strategy I use. Smiley

Sticking to the top, and jumping out for as long as possible.

2-2 (6:28) - You might not need to inhale this block, if the timing of the up-and-down moving fish works out.

2-3 (9:39) - Wow, clever use of the Beam Blast. Impressive moves in this level, overall.

2-4 (10:47) - Nice job getting the platform cycle. It might be a slight bit easier if you slide after the key as well.

2-4 (10:59) - I didn't realize Beam Blast could be great on this reverse conveyor belt, too. I have definitely underestimated Beam...

2-4 (11:22) - So, today I was messing around in this room, trying (not for the first time) to see if there was a way to get the Energy Sphere with Fire. My brother suggested using Burn, and I was like "no, I don't think that'll work, because...", then I accidentally found that the small flames that drop from Burn can actually hold the switch down for a couple of seconds! That means we won't need Bomb after all.

2-4 (13:11) - Nice idea on tossing the crystal. It's worth noting that it's possible to make this jump without fluttering, but the timing is fairly strict.

2-4 (13:52) - Haha, I forgot all about hitting with your hat. What I did was jump over the Ultra Sword knight and inhale while facing right, so the mummy eyes move to favorable positions while I'm turned away. I don't know if it's the same or slower, but I thought it was clever. >_>

2-4 (14:14) - I've never made it past either, but what I do is guard as the cannonball hits; that just makes it explode harmlessly, and then you can immediately continue on from there.

2-4 (14:19) - You can Ultra Sword from the top of the ladder here, so you can go down the ladder while waiting for the dimensional rift to "activate".

2-4 (14:49) - These Shotzos (and the ones at 14:59) are real jerks. Nice job getting forward boosts from them though.

2-4 (15:04) - Slide through the star block and bomb block in one slide, to save a tiny bit of time.

2-4 (15:07) - You can do normal jumps (without flutters) to clear this cannon, but I can see why you wouldn't want to risk it at that HP level. World 2 is surprisingly harsh about damage (it's not just you, it happens to me too)...

2-4 (15:28) - Wow, normal Kirby for a boss fight? And it works pretty well too! My strategy was to spam Hyper Boomerangs with Cutter, but it wasn't all that fast; I'm quite sure normal Kirby wins here.

2-Boss (16:57) - Rainbow spam! My preferred strategy too. Nice method for not having to move in the first half.

2-Boss (17:18) - Oh, nice idea on using the boss stars (even if it didn't go quite as you planned here). I pretty much never think of using the stars, but it looks like it can really speed up this fight.

A lot of great ideas in this world, very nice.

World 6 comments:

I've practiced some parts of this world a lot, so I might have more comments than usual here!

6-1 (1:44) - Ah, I didn't think of using the combo dive to get in the cannon quicker. And it looks like getting in here quickly makes the timing for the last cannon work out quite well. Nice.

6-1 (2:42) - Heh, knocking the Monster Flame enemy all the way over there was actually very good. If we can do that consistently, then it would actually be faster since you could Condor Head through the robot before doing Monster Flame.

6-1 (3:50) - Oh wow, keeping the gray blocks to spit at the bomb blocks is an awesome idea. Just one thing though, you could stand on the side of the left gray block and still end up super-inhaling it, so you can drop down while inhaling.

6-1 (4:10) - I'm not sure, but you might pass these star block walls slightly faster if you flutter and shoot an air pellet at the middle block, and then stand on top of the lower block and slide through. That way you don't have to slide on a conveyor belt that's going against you.

6-1 (4:42) - Try hitting him from slightly underneath for the first slash, that might make it a bit easier. You did quite well on the second half of the fight, though - it's easy to accidentally get hit (and lose your power) at that part.

6-2 (5:49) - I did a Stealth Slash through the lower spikes of this second box, while the box moves left. It looks pretty cool, but I'm pretty sure going over like you did is faster.

6-2 (5:59) - If I recall, doing a second Fireball Roll here gives you just the right spacing to enter the door.

6-2 (6:35) - Simply getting through this room without damage is impressive.

6-2 (7:32) - Clutch moves here. I usually make this corner cut, since the timing works out pretty well for it... but it's always scary since screwing up means losing Stone, and restarting the whole level.

6-2 (8:32) - Not sure if you know this already, but you only need the second and third Mike attacks for Dubior (even without charging up the third one); so if the first Mike attack speeds up any part of the previous room, then you could use it there. (I often keep the first Mike attack anyway in case I accidentally press 1 somewhere, though.)

6-2 (8:54) - Just wanted to mention a consistency trick: if you happen to miss the third bomb block as you pass (bad timing, or you shuffled around too much and let out a Plasma shot instead of a lightning, or something), you can still hit the bomb block after coming out of the moving box. Jump at the part where the ceiling is higher, and let off a Spark Wave (fully charged Plasma attack) to the left.

6-3 (10:23) - Needle has another use! What I did was keep Sword from the last room of 6-2, and use the Drill Stab in this room - but I'm not at all sure what's faster. Rolling Needle's speed is good, though on the other hand, there is that little hop at the beginning of the move that gets you off of the conveyor belt for a moment. Drill Stab isn't that fast, but it stays on the conveyor belt. Would have to test this.

6-3 (12:27) - Thank goodness for this tomato, because this dimension is evil. By the way, I noticed here and in 6-1, you dropped your Super Ability before entering the dimension. Does that save time?

6-3 (13:00) - Try jumping out from the water surface right here, so that you cut the corner and get above the fish.

6-3 (13:09) - Nice job passing the Gordo, that is tricky.

6-3 (13:11) - Try inhaling the fish as you jump into the water, then spit him out at the other fish. If you position yourself right, you can even inhale both fish and then spit them out at the next two.

6-3 (13:35) - What I did for this fight (I think I managed it in my 2:59 100% run): hit him with 4 (I think it's 4) Giant Swings, aka the normal aerial swings, to get him to just above half health. Then let him do the swoop attack, which he should do from left to right. (I'm assuming Sphere Doomer went to the right at the start of the fight, like in your run here.) Stand at the left edge of the right platform, face right, and start a Hammer Flip when his swoop attack gets to the center. That should land a bunch of fire hits and the hammer flip hit itself. If he's not finished by then, then another quick Giant Swing or two should do it.

6-4 (14:54) - Didn't even realize you could enter the door without dealing with the slug. >_>

6-4 (15:01) - I also keep Hammer for this dark room. I'm curious to see how Fire goes if it's used well, though.

6-4 (15:55) - Huh, nice method of getting through these spike traps quickly. I didn't realize you'd only have to take one hit.

6-4 (16:30) - What I do here is jump and spit out Kibble Blade at the switch. It might seem risky, but you do get a second try with the Parasol star if you mess up once... Tongue

6-4 (17:20) - You can pass this eel quickly without getting hit if you have Parasol, and without getting eaten if you don't have Parasol. You have to break the stone blocks reasonably quickly, though, so you'd have to know what's coming.

6-4 (17:31) - Ouch. I hate this eel too, though - it seems I always have to wait for him to move first.

6-5 (20:10) - Slick door entry here.

6-5 (20:15) - I go the long way around, since if I toss the key onto the conveyor belt on the normal spot, I can get to the key in time easily anyway. I wonder how we could speed up the key's journey, though... maybe get under the solid ceiling just to the left of the Gordos, then jump while tossing the key so the conveyor belt doesn't carry you into the Gordos?

6-Boss (23:22) - It's worth noting that even if you land all of your dive-bombs, you can still beat the first phase before he gets to the center. This also succeeds a decent amount of the time for me (but there's not much room for error; maybe running into him once and not losing Wing will be okay, but that's about it).

6-Boss (23:30) - Not sure if you have trouble with this part at all, but I find it more difficult to hit the rocket from this side. I get to the other side of him (i.e. in front of him) so I have a better shot at hitting the rocket.

6-Boss (23:36) - Yeah, I haven't totally figured out the second half pattern either. Sometimes he does sword slashes after you break the rocket, and sometimes he doesn't. Whether he does that or not, though, the next thing's always the dive with the electrical shield, and then charging across the screen with the spinning sword, and then I think tossing mines onto the ground. Not sure when he decides to back away from you or rocket toward you, though.

6-Boss (23:50) - I didn't even consider trying to be near the center when finishing him. That's a good point that it's important though.

Finally, this weekend I'll post a video or two demonstrating the ability roulette. Hopefully we can get a resolution on HOME button usage that way.

And congrats again on the run!

Wow, that's exciting news!!  Congrats on the run! :)  2:54 SS is great progress.  Even if it's still quite improvable as you say, coming that close to your segmented test run is pretty awesome.

[quote]5-2: After fighting Moundo, I carry the wing ability after eating him. Even though I have to lose my ability for Flare Beam in the next screen anyways, there's quite a bit of horizontal movement needed (aka I used at least 10 more dash attacks... lotsa time saved) for the next energy sphere; I carry Wing, toss it between the two stakes, pound them with stone, then eat Wing and pwn.[/quote]
Good stuff.  I thought of keeping Wing around after pounding the stakes, but for some reason I figured there was almost nothing between that and Flare Beam.  Yeah, now that you mention it, there's a reasonable amount of horizontal ground to cover.

[quote]Also, I learned that pressing down+1 while carrying something lets Kirby drop it immediately. I never knew this until recently, and it's faster than tossing it for sure. Also, you can drop a key right in front of a locked door to open it in the air, whereas if you carry it, you can only open it when you're STANDING next to it. Saves a fraction of a second per door.[/quote]
I once knew about down+1 to drop something, but totally forgot about it, heh.  And I didn't imagine it would help on locked doors like that, that is pretty cool.  Those fractions of seconds saved can certainly add up.

I watched more of your videos yesterday and today; here's my comments on Worlds 1, 2, and 6.  Sorry about not getting around to commenting on these earlier.  You probably are doing some of my better suggestions already, but hopefully I'll still have some useful tidbits.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb5b89JPqsk]World 1[/url] comments:

[hidden]Some of this might be redundant if you saw enough of my 1-1 and 1-2 practice stream, but I'll talk about those levels anyway.

1-1 (0:51) - I've been debating between three methods for these little gaps: dashing, multiple slides (like this), or cutter dashing.  It's on a long list of things to time properly...

1-1 (1:40) - What I try to do here is super-inhale the Ultra Sword knight plus the two Waddle Dees.  That way, I get the Waddle Dees out of the way.  Probably not much of a difference though.

1-1 (1:53) - Ah, nice forward boost.  What I did was shoot air pellets at all three Bronto Burts, but I'll leave that as an Extra strategy now.

1-1 (2:26) - Try shooting an air pellet at the lower Waddle Dee to knock him off the block, then use his block to jump.

1-1 (3:04) - I think I've got the second half of this fight figured out now.  When Sphere Doomer goes into the background, go near the edge of the screen and start an Inferno.  Sphere Doomer should move more toward the side of the screen (instead of the center like usual) to aim for you, but he'll never aim all the way to the edge of the screen, so you can still dodge him this way.  When he swoops in, he'll get hit by Inferno, then he'll get hit again as soon as he comes back to the foreground (as long as you're on the correct side; for me, he usually appears on the same side that he was before, but I dunno why he appeared on the opposite side in your run here).  That'll finish him.

1-2 (5:27) - I didn't think of it during my recent practice stream, but it's probably best to stand at the part between the spiders, dash jump right, and then Burn straight into the Energy Sphere.  That'll allow you to Burn back left to the door.

1-2 (5:47) - I didn't mention during my practice stream, but I just learned about keeping Fire here when I saw this part of your video.  Good stuff.  (It's even better if your power bounces to the right, though. :P)

1-3 (8:25) - Oh cool, nice idea about not letting the Sword Knight respawn.

1-4 (11:43) - Hmm, might save a second if you only inhale the two gray blocks, and avoid eating the spider and yellow blocks.

1-4 (11:51) - Heh, I didn't even realize the large spiders died to one air pellet.  Forgot that scaled-up enemies don't actually have more HP.

1-Boss (13:33) - That's a nifty idea about delaying the Inferno attack.  Another idea to try for that bit of extra damage: jump toward Whispy with a Spinning Fire Breath at the start of the fight (since you need to get a bit closer to him for the Inferno anyway).[/hidden]

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfSr8h79rr4]World 2[/url] comments:

[hidden]2-1 (0:59) - You're good at finding nice spots for Fireball Rolls. :)

2-2 (3:57) - Man, I didn't even think of getting Stone this late.  I got it at the beginning of the screen.

2-2 (4:47) - Maybe you shot close to the first frame you entered, thus not giving you enough time to turn up?

2-2 (5:14) - Nice use of the aerial down+1 Water move here.

2-2 (5:22) - It's possible to pass the flames in time, but yeah, it's tricky to pull off.

2-2 (6:06) - Same strategy I use. :)  Sticking to the top, and jumping out for as long as possible.

2-2 (6:28) - You might not need to inhale this block, if the timing of the up-and-down moving fish works out.

2-3 (9:39) - Wow, clever use of the Beam Blast.  Impressive moves in this level, overall.

2-4 (10:47) - Nice job getting the platform cycle.  It might be a slight bit easier if you slide after the key as well.

2-4 (10:59) - I didn't realize Beam Blast could be great on this reverse conveyor belt, too.  I have definitely underestimated Beam...

2-4 (11:22) - So, today I was messing around in this room, trying (not for the first time) to see if there was a way to get the Energy Sphere with Fire.  My brother suggested using Burn, and I was like "no, I don't think that'll work, because...", then I accidentally found that the small flames that drop from Burn can actually hold the switch down for a couple of seconds!  That means we won't need Bomb after all.

2-4 (13:11) - Nice idea on tossing the crystal.  It's worth noting that it's possible to make this jump without fluttering, but the timing is fairly strict.

2-4 (13:52) - Haha, I forgot all about hitting with your hat.  What I did was jump over the Ultra Sword knight and inhale while facing right, so the mummy eyes move to favorable positions while I'm turned away.  I don't know if it's the same or slower, but I thought it was clever. >_>

2-4 (14:14) - I've never made it past either, but what I do is guard as the cannonball hits; that just makes it explode harmlessly, and then you can immediately continue on from there.

2-4 (14:19) - You can Ultra Sword from the top of the ladder here, so you can go down the ladder while waiting for the dimensional rift to "activate".

2-4 (14:49) - These Shotzos (and the ones at 14:59) are real jerks.  Nice job getting forward boosts from them though.

2-4 (15:04) - Slide through the star block and bomb block in one slide, to save a tiny bit of time.

2-4 (15:07) - You can do normal jumps (without flutters) to clear this cannon, but I can see why you wouldn't want to risk it at that HP level.  World 2 is surprisingly harsh about damage (it's not just you, it happens to me too)...

2-4 (15:28) - Wow, normal Kirby for a boss fight?  And it works pretty well too!  My strategy was to spam Hyper Boomerangs with Cutter, but it wasn't all that fast; I'm quite sure normal Kirby wins here.

2-Boss (16:57) - Rainbow spam!  My preferred strategy too.  Nice method for not having to move in the first half.

2-Boss (17:18) - Oh, nice idea on using the boss stars (even if it didn't go quite as you planned here).  I pretty much never think of using the stars, but it looks like it can really speed up this fight.

A lot of great ideas in this world, very nice.[/hidden]

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HVD5FTAw8s]World 6[/url] comments:

[hidden]I've practiced some parts of this world a lot, so I might have more comments than usual here!

6-1 (1:44) - Ah, I didn't think of using the combo dive to get in the cannon quicker.  And it looks like getting in here quickly makes the timing for the last cannon work out quite well.  Nice.

6-1 (2:42) - Heh, knocking the Monster Flame enemy all the way over there was actually very good.  If we can do that consistently, then it would actually be faster since you could Condor Head through the robot before doing Monster Flame.

6-1 (3:50) - Oh wow, keeping the gray blocks to spit at the bomb blocks is an awesome idea.  Just one thing though, you could stand on the side of the left gray block and still end up super-inhaling it, so you can drop down while inhaling.

6-1 (4:10) - I'm not sure, but you might pass these star block walls slightly faster if you flutter and shoot an air pellet at the middle block, and then stand on top of the lower block and slide through.  That way you don't have to slide on a conveyor belt that's going against you.

6-1 (4:42) - Try hitting him from slightly underneath for the first slash, that might make it a bit easier.  You did quite well on the second half of the fight, though - it's easy to accidentally get hit (and lose your power) at that part.

6-2 (5:49) - I did a Stealth Slash through the lower spikes of this second box, while the box moves left.  It looks pretty cool, but I'm pretty sure going over like you did is faster.

6-2 (5:59) - If I recall, doing a second Fireball Roll here gives you just the right spacing to enter the door.

6-2 (6:35) - Simply getting through this room without damage is impressive.

6-2 (7:32) - Clutch moves here.  I usually make this corner cut, since the timing works out pretty well for it... but it's always scary since screwing up means losing Stone, and restarting the whole level.

6-2 (8:32) - Not sure if you know this already, but you only need the second and third Mike attacks for Dubior (even without charging up the third one); so if the first Mike attack speeds up any part of the previous room, then you could use it there.  (I often keep the first Mike attack anyway in case I accidentally press 1 somewhere, though.)

6-2 (8:54) - Just wanted to mention a consistency trick: if you happen to miss the third bomb block as you pass (bad timing, or you shuffled around too much and let out a Plasma shot instead of a lightning, or something), you can still hit the bomb block after coming out of the moving box.  Jump at the part where the ceiling is higher, and let off a Spark Wave (fully charged Plasma attack) to the left.

6-3 (10:23) - Needle has another use!  What I did was keep Sword from the last room of 6-2, and use the Drill Stab in this room - but I'm not at all sure what's faster.  Rolling Needle's speed is good, though on the other hand, there is that little hop at the beginning of the move that gets you off of the conveyor belt for a moment.  Drill Stab isn't that fast, but it stays on the conveyor belt.  Would have to test this.

6-3 (12:27) - Thank goodness for this tomato, because this dimension is evil.  By the way, I noticed here and in 6-1, you dropped your Super Ability before entering the dimension.  Does that save time?

6-3 (13:00) - Try jumping out from the water surface right here, so that you cut the corner and get above the fish.

6-3 (13:09) - Nice job passing the Gordo, that is tricky.

6-3 (13:11) - Try inhaling the fish as you jump into the water, then spit him out at the other fish.  If you position yourself right, you can even inhale both fish and then spit them out at the next two.

6-3 (13:35) - What I did for this fight (I think I managed it in my 2:59 100% run): hit him with 4 (I think it's 4) Giant Swings, aka the normal aerial swings, to get him to just above half health.  Then let him do the swoop attack, which he should do from left to right.  (I'm assuming Sphere Doomer went to the right at the start of the fight, like in your run here.)  Stand at the left edge of the right platform, face right, and start a Hammer Flip when his swoop attack gets to the center.  That should land a bunch of fire hits and the hammer flip hit itself.  If he's not finished by then, then another quick Giant Swing or two should do it.

6-4 (14:54) - Didn't even realize you could enter the door without dealing with the slug. >_>

6-4 (15:01) - I also keep Hammer for this dark room.  I'm curious to see how Fire goes if it's used well, though.

6-4 (15:55) - Huh, nice method of getting through these spike traps quickly.  I didn't realize you'd only have to take one hit.

6-4 (16:30) - What I do here is jump and spit out Kibble Blade at the switch.  It might seem risky, but you do get a second try with the Parasol star if you mess up once... :P

6-4 (17:20) - You can pass this eel quickly without getting hit if you have Parasol, and without getting eaten if you don't have Parasol.  You have to break the stone blocks reasonably quickly, though, so you'd have to know what's coming.

6-4 (17:31) - Ouch.  I hate this eel too, though - it seems I always have to wait for him to move first.

6-5 (20:10) - Slick door entry here.

6-5 (20:15) - I go the long way around, since if I toss the key onto the conveyor belt on the normal spot, I can get to the key in time easily anyway.  I wonder how we could speed up the key's journey, though... maybe get under the solid ceiling just to the left of the Gordos, then jump while tossing the key so the conveyor belt doesn't carry you into the Gordos?

6-Boss (23:22) - It's worth noting that even if you land all of your dive-bombs, you can still beat the first phase before he gets to the center.  This also succeeds a decent amount of the time for me (but there's not much room for error; maybe running into him once and not losing Wing will be okay, but that's about it).

6-Boss (23:30) - Not sure if you have trouble with this part at all, but I find it more difficult to hit the rocket from this side.  I get to the other side of him (i.e. in front of him) so I have a better shot at hitting the rocket.

6-Boss (23:36) - Yeah, I haven't totally figured out the second half pattern either.  Sometimes he does sword slashes after you break the rocket, and sometimes he doesn't.  Whether he does that or not, though, the next thing's always the dive with the electrical shield, and then charging across the screen with the spinning sword, and then I think tossing mines onto the ground.  Not sure when he decides to back away from you or rocket toward you, though.

6-Boss (23:50) - I didn't even consider trying to be near the center when finishing him.  That's a good point that it's important though.[/hidden]

Finally, this weekend I'll post a video or two demonstrating the ability roulette.  Hopefully we can get a resolution on HOME button usage that way.

And congrats again on the run!

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2012-02-25 06:52:04 pm

2012-02-25 08:52:08 am

<(^_^)>

Again, thanks for the comments! I'll reply more later since I don't have as much time, but there are a few things I'd like to point out as you practice too:

First off, wow, I did not know using burning would hold down the switch... that would save a TON of time! Now I'm not sure if it's faster to just keep fire the rest of the level until ultra sword... that completely changes the 2-4 route haha

I'm pretty sure it's faster to cut down the platform above the second cannon (right before the rift); I think it's pretty much impossible to make it past below the platform before the fireball fires, so we either have to 1. wait about 3-4 seconds, 2. get hit, also 3-4 seconds, or 3. cut down the platform. Cutting it may seem slow, but we have to go through the first slow animation of the swing ANYWAYS, so really, it only takes about 2 seconds, so it should be faster...

I actually love and hate this dimensional rift area. The cannons suck, but it's also a great way to pull a trihex, as in, show off. I typically wait before a cannon fires, then jump in between the first and second cannonball; really hard to time, but really awesome to see, and saves some damage and is a teeny bit faster. That was definitely a highlight (i wish I recorded it...) of my SS run; I got the jump between cannonballs in every cannon Smiley

In that same level, I found a consistent way to kill the sphere doomer as ability-less faster than in the test run. I ditch my ability, so it bounces right; meanwhile I super-suck the top two blocks on the left side, fire it. Then I super-suck the top two blocks on the right side AND my ability, and fire it. Then I fire a single block while it's charging, then one more should finish it as it charges from the background. Dashing while firing a star does more damage than just firing a star, fyi.

Yeah, my strat for Dr. Dooter is pretty fast, but it's... really hard to land the second phase... X_X especially hard to not accidentally suck in water, and hard to finish him before water disappears...

Also, about your comment from a while ago in 3-3, about the rift area and sucking in the two sharks to fire a faster star... It saves a TON of time. It's not even that hard once you know what to do; after firing the gray blocks to the right, swim through one water column, stand next to the yellow blocks, then the moment they're destroyed, super suck; that should get ONLY the two sharks. (too early and you'll get the yellow blocks next to you, meaning you'll get a giant slow star to clear blocks for you). It really does save a lot of time, thanks for the idea! Smiley

(thank god about 6-2, I always get scared of missing that energy sphere ^^;)

6-3: I stuck with spark at the start since, as you saw, I can just slide attack constantly, and run through enemies with the barrier. I'm personally not a fan of drill stab, I'm pretty sure on normal ground it's slower than slide attacks (more lag), and this probably means on the conveyor belt too. But I haven't tested it so I can't really say yet...

6-4: I should try out fire in the dark room, though honestly I'd actually expect it to be a bit slower since there isn't as much horizontal movement to navigate, and getting the energy sphere would take an extra second or two. Then again, I never tested it, so...

Metal General sucks. I think my ideal strat for 1st phase is to do two single-dive bombs->shockwaves as he moves backwards, then a double dive-bomb->shockwave as he stands still, then one more single-dive bomb -> shockwave (MAYBE another one, I don't quite remember), then dash attack through him just before he swings his sword to get behind him, then single-dive bomb -> shockwave then double-dive bomb -> shockwave (doing this first will probably move since he moves forward while swinging his sword), then a last dive-bomb -> shockwave should finish him. Something like that.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, I thought this would be amusing... I typically eat the three ninjas at the end of 7-2 in hopes of a decent ability (I got wing in my test run, which was ridiculous)...

...In my SS run, I got sleep.

Again, thanks for the comments! I'll reply more later since I don't have as much time, but there are a few things I'd like to point out as you practice too:

First off, wow, I did not know using burning would hold down the switch... that would save a TON of time! Now I'm not sure if it's faster to just keep fire the rest of the level until ultra sword... that completely changes the 2-4 route haha

I'm pretty sure it's faster to cut down the platform above the second cannon (right before the rift); I think it's pretty much impossible to make it past below the platform before the fireball fires, so we either have to 1. wait about 3-4 seconds, 2. get hit, also 3-4 seconds, or 3. cut down the platform. Cutting it may seem slow, but we have to go through the first slow animation of the swing ANYWAYS, so really, it only takes about 2 seconds, so it should be faster...

I actually love and hate this dimensional rift area. The cannons suck, but it's also a great way to pull a trihex, as in, show off. I typically wait before a cannon fires, then jump in between the first and second cannonball; really hard to time, but really awesome to see, and saves some damage and is a teeny bit faster. That was definitely a highlight (i wish I recorded it...) of my SS run; I got the jump between cannonballs in every cannon :)

In that same level, I found a consistent way to kill the sphere doomer as ability-less faster than in the test run. I ditch my ability, so it bounces right; meanwhile I super-suck the top two blocks on the left side, fire it. Then I super-suck the top two blocks on the right side AND my ability, and fire it. Then I fire a single block while it's charging, then one more should finish it as it charges from the background. Dashing while firing a star does more damage than just firing a star, fyi.

Yeah, my strat for Dr. Dooter is pretty fast, but it's... really hard to land the second phase... X_X especially hard to not accidentally suck in water, and hard to finish him before water disappears...

Also, about your comment from a while ago in 3-3, about the rift area and sucking in the two sharks to fire a faster star... It saves a TON of time. It's not even that hard once you know what to do; after firing the gray blocks to the right, swim through one water column, stand next to the yellow blocks, then the moment they're destroyed, super suck; that should get ONLY the two sharks. (too early and you'll get the yellow blocks next to you, meaning you'll get a giant slow star to clear blocks for you). It really does save a lot of time, thanks for the idea! :)

(thank god about 6-2, I always get scared of missing that energy sphere ^^;)

6-3: I stuck with spark at the start since, as you saw, I can just slide attack constantly, and run through enemies with the barrier. I'm personally not a fan of drill stab, I'm pretty sure on normal ground it's slower than slide attacks (more lag), and this probably means on the conveyor belt too. But I haven't tested it so I can't really say yet...

6-4: I should try out fire in the dark room, though honestly I'd actually expect it to be a bit slower since there isn't as much horizontal movement to navigate, and getting the energy sphere would take an extra second or two. Then again, I never tested it, so...

Metal General sucks. I think my ideal strat for 1st phase is to do two single-dive bombs->shockwaves as he moves backwards, then a double dive-bomb->shockwave as he stands still, then one more single-dive bomb -> shockwave (MAYBE another one, I don't quite remember), then dash attack through him just before he swings his sword to get behind him, then single-dive bomb -> shockwave then double-dive bomb -> shockwave (doing this first will probably move since he moves forward while swinging his sword), then a last dive-bomb -> shockwave should finish him. Something like that.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, I thought this would be amusing... I typically eat the three ninjas at the end of 7-2 in hopes of a decent ability (I got wing in my test run, which was ridiculous)...

...In my SS run, I got sleep.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2012-02-26 07:27:17 pm

2012-02-26 07:26:33 pm

<(^_^)>

I guess I'll post some tiny tips here that I never mentioned before:

1. Running normally on ice is really fast (aka running without ice/water), but has really bad acceleration... This can be negated, though. Just start the running animation and immediately short-hop; you should be running at full speed instantly. VERY handy for basically every level in world 4.

2. With Wing, there's a neat way to enter doors instantly while condor heading above it. At the right moment, do a combo dive (up -> down -> 1), or maybe dive bomb (but usually the first); do it so that you'll end up in front of a door. Then, at the perfect timing, cancel the dive with a jump and press up. If done right, you'll flap once and enter the door. What it'll look like is you'll condor head into a dive and instantly enter a door; the timing is REALLY precise and doesn't save THAT much time, but if you miss it, it's not a big deal either. But if you get it, it shaves off a second or two and it looks pretty sexy Smiley

3. Whenever you're shooting stars at a boss/miniboss, you want to shoot them while dashing, or jumping out of a dash; they do more damage

I guess I'll post some tiny tips here that I never mentioned before:

1. Running normally on ice is really fast (aka running without ice/water), but has really bad acceleration... This can be negated, though. Just start the running animation and immediately short-hop; you should be running at full speed instantly. VERY handy for basically every level in world 4.

2. With Wing, there's a neat way to enter doors instantly while condor heading above it. At the right moment, do a combo dive (up -> down -> 1), or maybe dive bomb (but usually the first); do it so that you'll end up in front of a door. Then, at the perfect timing, cancel the dive with a jump and press up. If done right, you'll flap once and enter the door. What it'll look like is you'll condor head into a dive and instantly enter a door; the timing is REALLY precise and doesn't save THAT much time, but if you miss it, it's not a big deal either. But if you get it, it shaves off a second or two and it looks pretty sexy :)

3. Whenever you're shooting stars at a boss/miniboss, you want to shoot them while dashing, or jumping out of a dash; they do more damage

yoshifan

2012-02-26 11:03:18 pm

Yep, good tips. And I always forget about 3. I sometimes do 2 for midair doors (like 5-1's second side room, I think); I'll try it in more places.

Right, and here's my comments on the rest of your test run:

World 7 comments:

7-1 (1:35) - That was quite a good Water Galboros fight, IMO. I like how you took advantage of the fact that dive bombs make you go slowly in reverse, when he was jumping. That lined you up perfectly.

7-1 (1:47) - You can land on lava if you were surfing before you jumped. Might be a bit faster to take advantage of this and hop repeatedly here, since it's uphill. (I'd probably get rid of the Flamer like you did, though; he seemed a bit too high to jump over.)

7-1 (1:54) - I use the Fountain Hover here to cool down the blocks. It doesn't tend to produce a perfect staircase, but it's pretty much always good enough, from what I've tried. I imagine you could also just surf + jump up the staircase to cool down the blocks while holding the key, but it's really risky because it's so easy to jump facefirst into the side of a step.

7-1 (2:46) - Nice way to take out the bomb block.

7-1 (2:55) - Good call on hitting the bad switches here, I didn't think of that.

7-1 (3:14) - If you dash instead of slide off of this ledge to grab the Sphere, another option is an up-tweaked Tornado Dash to the cannon. The normal Tornado Attack is probably faster if done right though.

7-1 (4:00) - If you roll and then jump onto the slope from a decent distance, you should still have some momentum coming out of the slope. It's particularly useful for clearing out the lava blocks at 4:02 and 4:23.

7-1 (4:14) - You can jump entirely over this part with the lower ground with good timing. That nice jump you did at 4:17 probably makes your strategy about as fast though. Smiley

7-1 (5:23) - I didn't even think of going over this cannon, that looks a bit faster.

7-1 (5:43) - Wow nice, I didn't know you could get to the middle of this crusher so soon.

7-1 (6:14) - That sounds like a nice plan with Whip, and pretty much totally different from mine. Tongue

I just spammed the Jump Strike (down+1 in midair), 2 per jump. I forgot how long the first half took with Jump Strikes, though.

7-2 (8:33) - Woo, one Blossom Storm in this run!

7-2 (8:41) - Nice moves to get into this passage.

7-2 (9:54) - I wonder if using air pellets between hi-jumps is faster here. It's pretty clearly faster for vertical movement, but not really sure for horizontal movement.

7-2 (10:48) - Since you had the idea of taking the cannon to Super Bonkers, I thought I'd mention that you can break one of these gold blocks by tossing a spent cannon at it. Might be slightly faster than using a Grand Hammer swing, if done right.

7-2 (12:35) - Standing on the side of the gray block to inhale it might be slightly faster, so you drop while inhaling.

7-2 (13:13) - It's a small saving, but getting to the right of this block while you're waiting for it could be a bit faster.

7-2 (14:13) - Nice Leaf fight!

7-2 (14:38) - :). That was just awesome.

7-3 (15:31) - Close call! Glad this room went well.

7-3 (16:01) - Really pro strategy for an improvisation! By the way, for a normal strat, at this point I switch to Stone so I can slide down the slope safely.

7-3 (16:25) - Great Dubior fight as well. I guess you might've practiced it at the Arena.

7-3 (16:37) - Normally, I actually have Spark from Dubior here, so I can run through these guys easily with the Spark shield. Not sure if it's faster than Ice -> Parasol, though.

7-3 (16:57) - So I found two timesavers in this room, other than the one you point out at 17:31. (1) Slightly risky: you can skip the second boot. To do this without trick 2 below or the 17:31 trick, you have to wait a bit before getting in the boot, so you don't waste time being in the boot while waiting for the lava columns to get in position. What I do is walk (not run) to the right wall immediately after entering the room, wait 3 seconds (or a little less) after touching the wall, then jump into the boot. (2) Extremely risky: get in the boot ASAP, then barely make it to the second lava column in time, thus skipping a cycle. I can make a video of this.

7-3 (17:31) - Yeah, I agree - jumping across immediately is definitely unreliable.

7-3 (17:38) - Does the game make you get out of the boot after getting an Energy Sphere, or was it just you pressing 1? I've been practicing on a completed file, so I've forgotten this. If the game makes you get out of the boot, I'll have to see if skipping the second boot still lets you get rid of the final gold blocks...

7-3 (18:21) - Yes, this room is definitely stressful. You don't need to rush the first part, though, because you usually have to wait for the sun to get out of the way of the 18:35 platform (the platform after the bowl of food). So I don't even dash-jump at all for these platforms actually (until after the first lava monster).

7-3 (18:37) - I tend to wait on the platform below the Sword Knight here, because the monster will still come out that way.

7-3 (20:57) - Great job dodging the suns here.

Challenge room comments:

Water (1:31) - I find that simply fluttering here is a bit better, because you can shoot an air pellet at that last Bronto Burt.

Bomb (2:30) - It seems like you can beat this platform to the end by a little bit if you alternate between midair Bomb Sets and air pellets to move through the air. It can get tricky at the Crash enemies though, since you have to make sure to drop bombs on all of them (or they'll hit you).

Bomb (2:42) - I just set down 2 bombs from the ledge on the left.

Bomb (3:05) - Nice Bomb Drops here.

Really nice Sword run! Especially the second room.

Whip (6:22) - I know you saw me air pellet these two Crash enemies before. My preferred way to do it is to air pellet them when I'm not completely to the side of them, but just a bit below that point (only just high enough to hit with an air pellet). This sometimes defeats both enemies and sometimes just one, so if it's only one, then I have to shoot another air pellet at the second enemy. On the other hand, if I'm directly to the side of them, an air pellet will always defeat both, but I often get exploded right after I turn towards them.

Whip (6:38) - Slick ending, I always forget about hitting with your hat.

Item (7:07) - Oh, right, ditching the boot! Yeah, that's definitely faster.

Quite a nice Wing run too.

Finale comments:

Landia first half is definitely fast with Hammer, nice fight.

Final Magalor was FAST. That alone makes Hammer look worth it... would still be worth timing it versus Wing, though.

Yep, good tips.  And I always forget about 3.  I sometimes do 2 for midair doors (like 5-1's second side room, I think); I'll try it in more places.

Right, and here's my comments on the rest of your test run:

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95DS7lS2JEU]World 7[/url] comments:

[hidden]7-1 (1:35) - That was quite a good Water Galboros fight, IMO.  I like how you took advantage of the fact that dive bombs make you go slowly in reverse, when he was jumping.  That lined you up perfectly.

7-1 (1:47) - You can land on lava if you were surfing before you jumped.  Might be a bit faster to take advantage of this and hop repeatedly here, since it's uphill.  (I'd probably get rid of the Flamer like you did, though; he seemed a bit too high to jump over.)

7-1 (1:54) - I use the Fountain Hover here to cool down the blocks.  It doesn't tend to produce a perfect staircase, but it's pretty much always good enough, from what I've tried.  I imagine you could also just surf + jump up the staircase to cool down the blocks while holding the key, but it's really risky because it's so easy to jump facefirst into the side of a step.

7-1 (2:46) - Nice way to take out the bomb block.

7-1 (2:55) - Good call on hitting the bad switches here, I didn't think of that.

7-1 (3:14) - If you dash instead of slide off of this ledge to grab the Sphere, another option is an up-tweaked Tornado Dash to the cannon.  The normal Tornado Attack is probably faster if done right though.

7-1 (4:00) - If you roll and then jump onto the slope from a decent distance, you should still have some momentum coming out of the slope.  It's particularly useful for clearing out the lava blocks at 4:02 and 4:23.

7-1 (4:14) - You can jump entirely over this part with the lower ground with good timing.  That nice jump you did at 4:17 probably makes your strategy about as fast though. :)

7-1 (5:23) - I didn't even think of going over this cannon, that looks a bit faster.

7-1 (5:43) - Wow nice, I didn't know you could get to the middle of this crusher so soon.

7-1 (6:14) - That sounds like a nice plan with Whip, and pretty much totally different from mine. :P  I just spammed the Jump Strike (down+1 in midair), 2 per jump.  I forgot how long the first half took with Jump Strikes, though.

7-2 (8:33) - Woo, one Blossom Storm in this run!

7-2 (8:41) - Nice moves to get into this passage.

7-2 (9:54) - I wonder if using air pellets between hi-jumps is faster here.  It's pretty clearly faster for vertical movement, but not really sure for horizontal movement.

7-2 (10:48) - Since you had the idea of taking the cannon to Super Bonkers, I thought I'd mention that you can break one of these gold blocks by tossing a spent cannon at it.  Might be slightly faster than using a Grand Hammer swing, if done right.

7-2 (12:35) - Standing on the side of the gray block to inhale it might be slightly faster, so you drop while inhaling.

7-2 (13:13) - It's a small saving, but getting to the right of this block while you're waiting for it could be a bit faster.

7-2 (14:13) - Nice Leaf fight!

7-2 (14:38) - :).  That was just awesome.

7-3 (15:31) - Close call!  Glad this room went well.

7-3 (16:01) - Really pro strategy for an improvisation!  By the way, for a normal strat, at this point I switch to Stone so I can slide down the slope safely.

7-3 (16:25) - Great Dubior fight as well.  I guess you might've practiced it at the Arena.

7-3 (16:37) - Normally, I actually have Spark from Dubior here, so I can run through these guys easily with the Spark shield.  Not sure if it's faster than Ice -> Parasol, though.

7-3 (16:57) - So I found two timesavers in this room, other than the one you point out at 17:31.  (1) Slightly risky: you can skip the second boot.  To do this without trick 2 below or the 17:31 trick, you have to wait a bit before getting in the boot, so you don't waste time being in the boot while waiting for the lava columns to get in position.  What I do is walk (not run) to the right wall immediately after entering the room, wait 3 seconds (or a little less) after touching the wall, then jump into the boot.  (2) Extremely risky: get in the boot ASAP, then barely make it to the second lava column in time, thus skipping a cycle.  I can make a video of this.

7-3 (17:31) - Yeah, I agree - jumping across immediately is definitely unreliable.

7-3 (17:38) - Does the game make you get out of the boot after getting an Energy Sphere, or was it just you pressing 1?  I've been practicing on a completed file, so I've forgotten this.  If the game makes you get out of the boot, I'll have to see if skipping the second boot still lets you get rid of the final gold blocks...

7-3 (18:21) - Yes, this room is definitely stressful.  You don't need to rush the first part, though, because you usually have to wait for the sun to get out of the way of the 18:35 platform (the platform after the bowl of food).  So I don't even dash-jump at all for these platforms actually (until after the first lava monster).

7-3 (18:37) - I tend to wait on the platform below the Sword Knight here, because the monster will still come out that way.

7-3 (20:57) - Great job dodging the suns here.[/hidden]

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQT_8FPpqSo]Challenge room[/url] comments:

Water (1:31) - I find that simply fluttering here is a bit better, because you can shoot an air pellet at that last Bronto Burt.

Bomb (2:30) - It seems like you can beat this platform to the end by a little bit if you alternate between midair Bomb Sets and air pellets to move through the air.  It can get tricky at the Crash enemies though, since you have to make sure to drop bombs on all of them (or they'll hit you).

Bomb (2:42) - I just set down 2 bombs from the ledge on the left.

Bomb (3:05) - Nice Bomb Drops here.

Really nice Sword run!  Especially the second room.

Whip (6:22) - I know you saw me air pellet these two Crash enemies before.  My preferred way to do it is to air pellet them when I'm not completely to the side of them, but just a bit below that point (only just high enough to hit with an air pellet).  This sometimes defeats both enemies and sometimes just one, so if it's only one, then I have to shoot another air pellet at the second enemy.  On the other hand, if I'm directly to the side of them, an air pellet will always defeat both, but I often get exploded right after I turn towards them.

Whip (6:38) - Slick ending, I always forget about hitting with your hat.

Item (7:07) - Oh, right, ditching the boot!  Yeah, that's definitely faster.

Quite a nice Wing run too.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E09WpYHVHK4]Finale[/url] comments:

Landia first half is definitely fast with Hammer, nice fight.

Final Magalor was FAST.  That alone makes Hammer look worth it... would still be worth timing it versus Wing, though.

kirbymastah

2012-02-28 08:29:05 am

<(^_^)>

1-1 (0:51) - I've been debating between three methods for these little gaps: dashing, multiple slides (like this), or cutter dashing. It's on a long list of things to time properly...

Dashing is definitely slower. Sliding vs. cutter dashing is very close, though cutter dashing is obviously faster through blocks/enemies and off edges, so that still makes cutter worth using in 1-1

1-1 (1:40) - What I try to do here is super-inhale the Ultra Sword knight plus the two Waddle Dees. That way, I get the Waddle Dees out of the way. Probably not much of a difference though.

Hmmm probably the same time; it takes a little more time to suck in the waddle dees, but you can jump on the top of that hill and slide off. I don't think it's really much of a difference either, though, at most a small fraction of a second difference.

1-1 (2:26) - Try shooting an air pellet at the lower Waddle Dee to knock him off the block, then use his block to jump.

Yep, saw that in your stream, definitely a little faster than waiting and floating over!

<i>1-2 (5:27) - I didn't think of it during my recent practice stream, but it's probably best to stand at the part between the spiders, dash jump right, and then Burn straight into the Energy Sphere. That'll allow you to Burn back left to the door.</i>

will have to try that

1-3 (8:25) - Oh cool, nice idea about not letting the Sword Knight respawn.

Better idea to kill the key holder below the platform Tongue

1-4 (11:43) - Hmm, might save a second if you only inhale the two gray blocks, and avoid eating the spider and yellow blocks.

I think inhaling the spider is almost unavoidable; but yeah, nowadays I do one slideattack right beforehand to space myself perfectly to inhale only the gray blocks and the spider, but not the yellow blocks.

2-2 (5:14) - Nice use of the aerial down+1 Water move here.

Thanks! It's a very situational move, though I know horizontally, it's faster than floating, by just a little; overall it's only useful if you want to cover aerial horizontal distance but it's not worth landing.

2-2 (5:22) - It's possible to pass the flames in time, but yeah, it's tricky to pull off.

2-4 (13:11) - Nice idea on tossing the crystal. It's worth noting that it's possible to make this jump without fluttering, but the timing is fairly strict.

Like we said on your stream, it's probably best to just go for the hard jump, since tossing the key is slower (if anything) than just dropping down and hopping up the platforms.

2-4 (14:14) - I've never made it past either, but what I do is guard as the cannonball hits; that just makes it explode harmlessly, and then you can immediately continue on from there.

The one thing to time is: is it faster to drop down and guard, and get pushed back? Or cut the platform down?

2-4 (15:04) - Slide through the star block and bomb block in one slide, to save a tiny bit of time.

Yep! I found that out while practicing as well; and I typically do normal jumps to clear the cannon, but the test run's didn't go very well, so I was scared of getting blasted and took it safe.

2-Boss (17:18) - Oh, nice idea on using the boss stars (even if it didn't go quite as you planned here). I pretty much never think of using the stars, but it looks like it can really speed up this fight.

It's unfortunate that it seems like a randomish strat, and is not consistent. It's always best to shoot stars after dashing (or jumping out of a dash) but it's still random X_X Ideally, give or take a few randomn factors, an ideal run would finish Mr. Dooter just as he finishes hopping around, but I didn't get that kill, and it's really hard... probably the hardest boss in my 100% run for me after Metal General.

6-1 (4:10) - I'm not sure, but you might pass these star block walls slightly faster if you flutter and shoot an air pellet at the middle block, and then stand on top of the lower block and slide through. That way you don't have to slide on a conveyor belt that's going against you.

point taken

6-1 (4:42) - Try hitting him from slightly underneath for the first slash, that might make it a bit easier. You did quite well on the second half of the fight, though - it's easy to accidentally get hit (and lose your power) at that part.

yeah, this ninja fight is actually a little difficult to space without getting hit...

6-2 (6:35) - Simply getting through this room without damage is impressive.

I hate this room in general Tongue

I' not sure what the fastest move to use is in the parts of this room where you have to jump up a raised part of the floor then drop down immediately; I think fire spin would be best.

6-2 (7:32) - Clutch moves here. I usually make this corner cut, since the timing works out pretty well for it... but it's always scary since screwing up means losing Stone, and restarting the whole level.

I've never gotten hit here, actually, so I'm typically not scared... but understandly, in my SS runs, I avoid it... I need to be a bit more confident about that section Tongue

6-2 (8:32) - Not sure if you know this already, but you only need the second and third Mike attacks for Dubior (even without charging up the third one); so if the first Mike attack speeds up any part of the previous room, then you could use it there. (I often keep the first Mike attack anyway in case I accidentally press 1 somewhere, though.)

Interesting point. Since I have to do the first move anyways, using it won't waste time in the previous room; it can clear some enemies in the previous room for a cleaner jump then.

6-3 (12:27) - Thank goodness for this tomato, because this dimension is evil. By the way, I noticed here and in 6-1, you dropped your Super Ability before entering the dimension. Does that save time?

Nope, I just do it for the heck of it. Maybe because I don't want to accidentally attack either. I also have a habit of floating in front of a spawning rift, mashing (-) while it appears, and hoping I lose the ability just before getting sucked in. Just something interesting.

6-3 (13:35) - What I did for this fight (I think I managed it in my 2:59 100% run): hit him with 4 (I think it's 4) Giant Swings, aka the normal aerial swings, to get him to just above half health. Then let him do the swoop attack, which he should do from left to right. (I'm assuming Sphere Doomer went to the right at the start of the fight, like in your run here.) Stand at the left edge of the right platform, face right, and start a Hammer Flip when his swoop attack gets to the center. That should land a bunch of fire hits and the hammer flip hit itself. If he's not finished by then, then another quick Giant Swing or two should do it.

Perfect, gotta try that! Hammer is my most comfortable combat ability, but that pool in the middle makes the fight so awkward...

6-4 (16:30) - What I do here is jump and spit out Kibble Blade at the switch. It might seem risky, but you do get a second try with the Parasol star if you mess up once...

That is faster, but like you said, it is riskier if you miss. Still, losing parasol won't be THAT bad... actually it is since in my editted route, it's used at the start of 6-5. Still, it's not hard to miss that shot...

6-5 (20:15) - I go the long way around, since if I toss the key onto the conveyor belt on the normal spot, I can get to the key in time easily anyway. I wonder how we could speed up the key's journey, though... maybe get under the solid ceiling just to the left of the Gordos, then jump while tossing the key so the conveyor belt doesn't carry you into the Gordos?

Or maybe just drop the key next to the gordo and charge through? Now that we know we can drop stuff? Smiley

6-Boss (23:36) - Yeah, I haven't totally figured out the second half pattern either. Sometimes he does sword slashes after you break the rocket, and sometimes he doesn't. Whether he does that or not, though, the next thing's always the dive with the electrical shield, and then charging across the screen with the spinning sword, and then I think tossing mines onto the ground. Not sure when he decides to back away from you or rocket toward you, though.

The second pattern seems completely random; I personally like it if he does the sword attack, so I can charge through to get behind and spam dive bombs. He always backs off before rocketing towards you, I figured.

6-Boss (23:50) - I didn't even consider trying to be near the center when finishing him. That's a good point that it's important though.

It's gonna be hard to do though; something to keep in mind before landing the final blow. Still, I'd rather kill him ASAP at the side then wait... Or maybe stand a little far away and use the feather bowgun (YES, that move has a use!)

[i]1-1 (0:51) - I've been debating between three methods for these little gaps: dashing, multiple slides (like this), or cutter dashing.  It's on a long list of things to time properly...[/i]

Dashing is definitely slower. Sliding vs. cutter dashing is very close, though cutter dashing is obviously faster through blocks/enemies and off edges, so that still makes cutter worth using in 1-1

[i]1-1 (1:40) - What I try to do here is super-inhale the Ultra Sword knight plus the two Waddle Dees.  That way, I get the Waddle Dees out of the way.  Probably not much of a difference though.[/i]

Hmmm probably the same time; it takes a little more time to suck in the waddle dees, but you can jump on the top of that hill and slide off. I don't think it's really much of a difference either, though, at most a small fraction of a second difference.

[i]1-1 (2:26) - Try shooting an air pellet at the lower Waddle Dee to knock him off the block, then use his block to jump.[/i]

Yep, saw that in your stream, definitely a little faster than waiting and floating over!

<i>1-2 (5:27) - I didn't think of it during my recent practice stream, but it's probably best to stand at the part between the spiders, dash jump right, and then Burn straight into the Energy Sphere.  That'll allow you to Burn back left to the door.</i>

will have to try that

[i]1-3 (8:25) - Oh cool, nice idea about not letting the Sword Knight respawn.[/i]

Better idea to kill the key holder below the platform :P

[i]1-4 (11:43) - Hmm, might save a second if you only inhale the two gray blocks, and avoid eating the spider and yellow blocks.[/i]

I think inhaling the spider is almost unavoidable; but yeah, nowadays I do one slideattack right beforehand to space myself perfectly to inhale only the gray blocks and the spider, but not the yellow blocks.

[i]2-2 (5:14) - Nice use of the aerial down+1 Water move here.[/i]

Thanks! It's a very situational move, though I know horizontally, it's faster than floating, by just a little; overall it's only useful if you want to cover aerial horizontal distance but it's not worth landing.

[i]2-2 (5:22) - It's possible to pass the flames in time, but yeah, it's tricky to pull off.[/i]

[i]2-4 (13:11) - Nice idea on tossing the crystal.  It's worth noting that it's possible to make this jump without fluttering, but the timing is fairly strict.[/i]

Like we said on your stream, it's probably best to just go for the hard jump, since tossing the key is slower (if anything) than just dropping down and hopping up the platforms.

[i]2-4 (14:14) - I've never made it past either, but what I do is guard as the cannonball hits; that just makes it explode harmlessly, and then you can immediately continue on from there.[/i]

The one thing to time is: is it faster to drop down and guard, and get pushed back? Or cut the platform down?

[i]2-4 (15:04) - Slide through the star block and bomb block in one slide, to save a tiny bit of time.[/i]

Yep! I found that out while practicing as well; and I typically do normal jumps to clear the cannon, but the test run's didn't go very well, so I was scared of getting blasted and took it safe.

[i]2-Boss (17:18) - Oh, nice idea on using the boss stars (even if it didn't go quite as you planned here).  I pretty much never think of using the stars, but it looks like it can really speed up this fight.[/i]

It's unfortunate that it seems like a randomish strat, and is not consistent. It's always best to shoot stars after dashing (or jumping out of a dash) but it's still random X_X Ideally, give or take a few randomn factors, an ideal run would finish Mr. Dooter just as he finishes hopping around, but I didn't get that kill, and it's really hard... probably the hardest boss in my 100% run for me after Metal General.

[i]6-1 (4:10) - I'm not sure, but you might pass these star block walls slightly faster if you flutter and shoot an air pellet at the middle block, and then stand on top of the lower block and slide through.  That way you don't have to slide on a conveyor belt that's going against you.[/i]

point taken

[i]6-1 (4:42) - Try hitting him from slightly underneath for the first slash, that might make it a bit easier.  You did quite well on the second half of the fight, though - it's easy to accidentally get hit (and lose your power) at that part.[/i]

yeah, this ninja fight is actually a little difficult to space without getting hit...

[i]6-2 (6:35) - Simply getting through this room without damage is impressive.[/i]

I hate this room in general :P I' not sure what the fastest move to use is in the parts of this room where you have to jump up a raised part of the floor then drop down immediately; I think fire spin would be best.

[i]6-2 (7:32) - Clutch moves here.  I usually make this corner cut, since the timing works out pretty well for it... but it's always scary since screwing up means losing Stone, and restarting the whole level.[/i]

I've never gotten hit here, actually, so I'm typically not scared... but understandly, in my SS runs, I avoid it... I need to be a bit more confident about that section :P

[i]6-2 (8:32) - Not sure if you know this already, but you only need the second and third Mike attacks for Dubior (even without charging up the third one); so if the first Mike attack speeds up any part of the previous room, then you could use it there.  (I often keep the first Mike attack anyway in case I accidentally press 1 somewhere, though.)[/i]

Interesting point. Since I have to do the first move anyways, using it won't waste time in the previous room; it can clear some enemies in the previous room for a cleaner jump then.

[i]6-3 (12:27) - Thank goodness for this tomato, because this dimension is evil.  By the way, I noticed here and in 6-1, you dropped your Super Ability before entering the dimension.  Does that save time?[/i]

Nope, I just do it for the heck of it. Maybe because I don't want to accidentally attack either. I also have a habit of floating in front of a spawning rift, mashing (-) while it appears, and hoping I lose the ability just before getting sucked in. Just something interesting.

[i]6-3 (13:35) - What I did for this fight (I think I managed it in my 2:59 100% run): hit him with 4 (I think it's 4) Giant Swings, aka the normal aerial swings, to get him to just above half health.  Then let him do the swoop attack, which he should do from left to right.  (I'm assuming Sphere Doomer went to the right at the start of the fight, like in your run here.)  Stand at the left edge of the right platform, face right, and start a Hammer Flip when his swoop attack gets to the center.  That should land a bunch of fire hits and the hammer flip hit itself.  If he's not finished by then, then another quick Giant Swing or two should do it.[/i]

Perfect, gotta try that! Hammer is my most comfortable combat ability, but that pool in the middle makes the fight so awkward...

[i]6-4 (16:30) - What I do here is jump and spit out Kibble Blade at the switch.  It might seem risky, but you do get a second try with the Parasol star if you mess up once... [/i]

That is faster, but like you said, it is riskier if you miss. Still, losing parasol won't be THAT bad... actually it is since in my editted route, it's used at the start of 6-5. Still, it's not hard to miss that shot...

[i]6-5 (20:15) - I go the long way around, since if I toss the key onto the conveyor belt on the normal spot, I can get to the key in time easily anyway.  I wonder how we could speed up the key's journey, though... maybe get under the solid ceiling just to the left of the Gordos, then jump while tossing the key so the conveyor belt doesn't carry you into the Gordos?[/i]

Or maybe just drop the key next to the gordo and charge through? Now that we know we can drop stuff? :)

[i]6-Boss (23:36) - Yeah, I haven't totally figured out the second half pattern either.  Sometimes he does sword slashes after you break the rocket, and sometimes he doesn't.  Whether he does that or not, though, the next thing's always the dive with the electrical shield, and then charging across the screen with the spinning sword, and then I think tossing mines onto the ground.  Not sure when he decides to back away from you or rocket toward you, though.[/i]

The second pattern seems completely random; I personally like it if he does the sword attack, so I can charge through to get behind and spam dive bombs. He always backs off before rocketing towards you, I figured.

[i]6-Boss (23:50) - I didn't even consider trying to be near the center when finishing him.  That's a good point that it's important though.[/i]

It's gonna be hard to do though; something to keep in mind before landing the final blow. Still, I'd rather kill him ASAP at the side then wait... Or maybe stand a little far away and use the feather bowgun (YES, that move has a use!)

kirbymastah

2012-02-28 05:18:47 pm

<(^_^)>

not related to the full game run, but I finished a leaf speed run of true arena! It may help for the sphere doomer fight for you, yoshifan, in world 7.

Enjoy!

Milligramcracker

2012-03-04 08:06:52 pm

Micromanager extraordinaire

It looks like Leaf is a bit overpowered.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2012-03-04 08:50:23 pm

2012-03-04 08:23:13 pm

<(^_^)>

if you think leaf is overpowered, you haven't seen my hammer run... nor ideal ninja/wing/metaknight runs...

I've actually been working on a true arena parasol run, but I haven't had time to truly try out another SS any%/100% run... at least, I don't have at least 3 consecutive hours of free time

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2012-03-10 07:39:21 pm

kirbymastah: 2012-03-10 07:15:33 pm

kirbymastah: 2012-03-10 07:14:28 pm

kirbymastah: 2012-03-10 05:48:26 pm

2012-03-10 05:47:35 pm

<(^_^)>

any% SS sucks. Just FYI.

I just finished a run, but I need to time it roughly... I have it recorded though, and will be up on youtube by tomorrow. It's very solid up until 5-4, where I lose freaking wing (I improvise pretty well and use my 100% route to finish off 5-5, so only a minute or two lost, probably). Then I lost wing AGAIN in 7-3. UGH. Then I got trolled by dubior in 7-3. UGH.

Honestly, losing wing in world 5 is not too bad, and is very much salvageable since the wing enemy is pretty prominent (unlike world 6/7) and worst comes to worst, I get a free Wing ability right before Grand Doomer, which is what I got.

So yeah. If I didn't lose wing at all, that's at least 5 minutes saved right there. It's hard enough to keep wing from 1-1 for the entire game, let alone speed run it with risky strats, which is why some strats I take are very safe (COUGH world 3 COUGH). But I think it's sub 2-hours... will have to check though.

EDIT: Final time is roughly 1:48:10!!! I knew it was sub-2 hours, but I didn't think it'd be below 1:50... I guess a target goal for now is sub-1:45. My timing started at pressing 2 on Main Mode, and ended at the final hit on Magolor's Soul.

any% SS sucks. Just FYI.

I just finished a run, but I need to time it roughly... I have it recorded though, and will be up on youtube by tomorrow. It's very solid up until 5-4, where I lose freaking wing (I improvise pretty well and use my 100% route to finish off 5-5, so only a minute or two lost, probably). Then I lost wing AGAIN in 7-3. UGH. Then I got trolled by dubior in 7-3. UGH.

Honestly, losing wing in world 5 is not too bad, and is very much salvageable since the wing enemy is pretty prominent (unlike world 6/7) and worst comes to worst, I get a free Wing ability right before Grand Doomer, which is what I got.

So yeah. If I didn't lose wing at all, that's at least 5 minutes saved right there. It's hard enough to keep wing from 1-1 for the entire game, let alone speed run it with risky strats, which is why some strats I take are very safe (COUGH world 3 COUGH). But I think it's sub 2-hours... will have to check though.

EDIT: Final time is roughly 1:48:10!!! I knew it was sub-2 hours, but I didn't think it'd be below 1:50... I guess a target goal for now is sub-1:45. My timing started at pressing 2 on Main Mode, and ended at the final hit on Magolor's Soul.

doicm

2012-03-10 07:26:17 pm

Well done on that time, kirbymastah! I'm thinking of casually speed running this game someday, and I'm glad to see that speed running sub 2 hours is definitely possible.

yoshifan

2012-03-11 03:16:40 pm

Wow, 1:48 any%? That's awesome! Great to see that practice and new strategies are really paying off. Smiley

I've been pretty tied up lately, but I hope to get some free time again by the end of the coming week. Then I'll work on some videos, such as the ability roulette demonstration (which I said I'd do like a month ago >_>) and individual-stage strategy videos.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2012-03-13 03:46:05 am

kirbymastah: 2012-03-12 10:58:58 am

kirbymastah: 2012-03-12 10:58:24 am

2012-03-12 10:57:04 am

<(^_^)>

ok, bad news, youtube is currently failing at uploading my 1:48 any% run, so I'm not going to bother (maybe in really low quality), there isn't really much special in it either besides what we know. Meanwhile, I just had another attempt, with essentially perfect worlds 1-3, until 3-3... then guess what happened.

My god, I hate level 3-3 so much...

I'm definitely uploading this attempt though, because worlds 1 and ESPECIALLY 2 were just way too good to not show (near perfect boss/miniboss fights, tons of jump-cancelled door-enters, and so many tiny little successful optimizations); this could be a standard of quality to ultimately surpass (since, of course, there are still lots of tiny mistakes), for worlds 1-2 (and I guess world 3 until 3-3). I'm pretty sick of any% at this point lol, the fact that losing wing is so easy and it's a run-killer... I guess I'm going to go for a 100% attempt later today.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2012-03-13 03:45:21 am

2012-03-13 03:44:33 am

<(^_^)>

Here's the awesome runs for World 1-2 that I mentioned above (and ended at 3-3...)

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2012-03-13 08:29:17 pm

kirbymastah: 2012-03-13 08:29:13 pm

kirbymastah: 2012-03-13 08:28:51 pm

2012-03-13 02:50:14 pm

<(^_^)>

Screw that, just watch this and read the comments.

1:46:05!!!! And sub-1:44 is definitely within reach, maybe sub-1:43 soon?

Notice how I did 'perfect' dive bombs around the crowned Landia dragon around 1:37:06ish...

EDIT:

So with rough timing based on my youtube video, starting at the 0:03 mark (when I select the main mode file), here are my net times:

Worlds 1-5 timings were taken at collection of the ship part, World 6-7 were taken at the final blow on Metal General & Landia, Total was taken at the final blow on Magolor's Soul
World 1: 08:50
World 2: 20:02
World 3: 36:47
World 4: 51:31
World 5: 1:06:26
World 6: 1:24:07
World 7: 1:37:20
End: 1:46:05

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2012-03-24 03:15:09 pm

kirbymastah: 2012-03-24 03:09:14 pm

kirbymastah: 2012-03-24 03:09:00 pm

kirbymastah: 2012-03-24 03:08:43 pm

2012-03-24 03:00:40 pm

<(^_^)>

Oh lookie, new WR, 1:44:49 (don't have a recording though...)

World #: Previous Any% & this Any%
World 1: 08:50 & 09:01
World 2: 20:02 & 20:08
World 3: 36:47 & 36:54
World 4: 51:31 & 51:39
World 5: 1:06:26 & 1:06:37
World 6: 1:24:07 & 1:23:59
World 7: 1:37:20 & 1:36:27
Finale: 1:46:05 & 1:44:49

A minute and a half shaved brings this run to sub 1:45!!! Nothing majorly different, you'll notice from the times above that it's very close to my previous record until world 7 and the finale. To note, losing wing in 6-3 in my youtube record really didn't lose much time at ALL; in this run, I never permanently lost wing, and I was only ahead by 8 seconds after metal general!

What made the 1.5 minute difference were near-perfect landia, magolor, and magolor soul fights. They were disastrous in my youtube run, but in this run, they were near perfect! I ended Landia's 1st phase just before he attacked on the ground, I finished Magolor before he FIRES HIS LAZER, and I finished 1st phase of Magolor Soul before he went into the background for his 10-second long spikes attack. I can't believe these three fights alone saved over a minute... well actually, considering how terrible they were in my youtube run, I can believe that lol.

Well, maybe I'm done with any% for now since I got sub 1:45. If anyone (cough yoshifan cough) wants times to compare for each world, they're up here; I definitely want to see this time beaten with a true high-quality recording thumbsup

A good submittable run for SDA would probably be sub 1:44, IMO; I don't think there can be much more time shaved off in general.

One thing I definitely want to test though:
1. In the middle of 5-3, would it be faster to get Hi-Jump, since there's just so much vertical traveling? (Hi Jump is a little faster than wing, if you puff-cancel the lag) There's a Wing at the very end anyways, the only time lost is getting hi jump (about 3 seconds) and losing probably another 3ish seconds at the last screen to get wing again.
2. In 6-3, I lost only about 10ish seconds for losing wing, and a big chunk of that time is due to using parasol. Parasol makes the underwater sections faster and easier, it's definitely faster against the Moundo+KingDoo dual fight in 6-3 than Wing (and kills Kibble Blade faster too), and it's not that slow horizontally. There's a lot of underwater sections in 6-4 that parasol would be faster in, and the first and second screen of 6-5 is pre-determined anyways, so wing wouldn't help there anyways, and you get wing back in the 3rd screen of 6-5. Basically, is it worth getting parasol in 6-3 before the Mound+KingDoo fight, and then regrabbing Wing in 6-5?

Also, a note about the magolor/grand doomer fights: There's a easier way to keep Wing while eating an ultra ability that a gamefaqser mentioned. While carrying wing, kill the ultra enemy with a slide attack, then touch the ability it drops. You'll get the ultra ability, and still be carrying wing, meaning you don't have to bother catching it before attacking magolor/grand doomer, and also makes the fight a LOT easier. This also made a difference in the Magolor fight, since I was able to hit him a lot earlier with Monster Flame.

Oh lookie, new WR, 1:44:49 (don't have a recording though...)

World #: Previous Any% & this Any%
World 1: 08:50 & 09:01
World 2: 20:02 & 20:08
World 3: 36:47 & 36:54
World 4: 51:31 & 51:39
World 5: 1:06:26 & 1:06:37
World 6: 1:24:07 & 1:23:59
World 7: 1:37:20 & 1:36:27
Finale: 1:46:05 & 1:44:49

A minute and a half shaved brings this run to sub 1:45!!! Nothing majorly different, you'll notice from the times above that it's very close to my previous record until world 7 and the finale. To note, losing wing in 6-3 in my youtube record really didn't lose much time at ALL; in this run, I never permanently lost wing, and I was only ahead by 8 seconds after metal general!

What made the 1.5 minute difference were near-perfect landia, magolor, and magolor soul fights. They were disastrous in my youtube run, but in this run, they were near perfect! I ended Landia's 1st phase just before he attacked on the ground, I finished Magolor before he FIRES HIS LAZER, and I finished 1st phase of Magolor Soul before he went into the background for his 10-second long spikes attack. I can't believe these three fights alone saved over a minute... well actually, considering how terrible they were in my youtube run, I can believe that lol.

Well, maybe I'm done with any% for now since I got sub 1:45. If anyone (cough yoshifan cough) wants times to compare for each world, they're up here; I definitely want to see this time beaten with a true high-quality recording :thumbsup: A good submittable run for SDA would probably be sub 1:44, IMO; I don't think there can be much more time shaved off in general.

One thing I definitely want to test though:
1. In the middle of 5-3, would it be faster to get Hi-Jump, since there's just so much vertical traveling? (Hi Jump is a little faster than wing, if you puff-cancel the lag) There's a Wing at the very end anyways, the only time lost is getting hi jump (about 3 seconds) and losing probably another 3ish seconds at the last screen to get wing again.
2. In 6-3, I lost only about 10ish seconds for losing wing, and a big chunk of that time is due to using parasol. Parasol makes the underwater sections faster and easier, it's definitely faster against the Moundo+KingDoo dual fight in 6-3 than Wing (and kills Kibble Blade faster too), and it's not that slow horizontally. There's a lot of underwater sections in 6-4 that parasol would be faster in, and the first and second screen of 6-5 is pre-determined anyways, so wing wouldn't help there anyways, and you get wing back in the 3rd screen of 6-5. Basically, is it worth getting parasol in 6-3 before the Mound+KingDoo fight, and then regrabbing Wing in 6-5?

Also, a note about the magolor/grand doomer fights: There's a easier way to keep Wing while eating an ultra ability that a gamefaqser mentioned. While carrying wing, kill the ultra enemy with a slide attack, then touch the ability it drops. You'll get the ultra ability, and still be carrying wing, meaning you don't have to bother catching it before attacking magolor/grand doomer, and also makes the fight a LOT easier. This also made a difference in the Magolor fight, since I was able to hit him a lot earlier with Monster Flame.