Kid Chameleon Speed Run(Full game All Bosses)

Garrison

2012-07-17 12:20:30 am

Oh neat, what kind of time do you think you'll get?

Hsanrb

2012-07-17 11:37:20 am

Quote from leftysheroes:

I plan to do a segmented run on my XBOX 360 sonic mega collection pack.

You should probably get a ruling on if this is legal because there is no password system in place so there is no way to segment on the original genesis release.

TheWinslinator

2015-07-30 11:49:51 pm

Hey Leftysheroes, I am planning on doing runs using the 100K trip for this game very soon. I have two random questions: how were you able to defeat Boomerang Bosses in 2:26? Also, how did you calculate that the actual speedrun time would end up being sub-19:30? The current WR is 28:25, and even that is difficult to improve.

leftysheroes

2015-07-31 06:49:25 pm

Sub 19:30 was game time not real time. When I was actually working on this game I did most of my practice on emulator but I wasn't able to get the boss strats to work on the Xbox 360 sion of the game but that doesn't mean that its not possible on the genesis version cause in most cases I was just a hit short of what I needed in certain places and the genesis game having slightly more lag than the Xbox 360 port may be enough to get that extra hit in.

As far as 2:26 Boomerang Bosses you have to do this terrible strategy which I will try to explain the steps.
1. You need to get I think 15 hits on the middle head using Red Stealth Sword slashes and then bouncing on it.
2. Step 2 involves grabbing a maniaxe and using it to throw axes at the middle head while bouncing on the far right head.
3. After the middle head dies you squeeze yourself between the ceiling and the right head to finish it.
4. After it dies you have to use the momentum from being squished to quickly get to the elevated metal block platform on the left side with the p blocks with the red stealth in them on the other side.
5. Throw as many axes as you can at the left head with the maniaxe while he is still in range(you have to alternate ducking and throwing axes so you get them out faster here).
6. Switch to Red Stealth and finish it on the same area where Peaches does in his run(you don't need diamond powers).

Also there is a strat for Final Marathon where you can finish the stage with the Red Stealth and then use diamond powers on the final boss to get a very quick kill that saves like 6 seconds I think but it requires a extremely difficult jump in the area where the bridge collapses(don't know for sure but the timing for that jump may be frame perfect)

Sub 19:30 was game time not real time. When I was actually working on this game I did most of my practice on emulator but I wasn't able to get the boss strats to work on the Xbox 360 sion of the game but that doesn't mean that its not possible on the genesis version cause in most cases I was just a hit short of what I needed in certain places and the genesis game having slightly more lag than the Xbox 360 port may be enough to get that extra hit in.

As far as 2:26 Boomerang Bosses you have to do this terrible strategy which I will try to explain the steps.
1. You need to get I think 15 hits on the middle head using Red Stealth Sword slashes and then bouncing on it.
2. Step 2 involves grabbing a maniaxe and using it to throw axes at the middle head while bouncing on the far right head.
3. After the middle head dies you squeeze yourself between the ceiling and the right head to finish it. 
4. After it dies you have to use the momentum from being squished to quickly get to the elevated metal block platform on the left side with the p blocks with the red stealth in them on the other side.
5. Throw as many axes as you can at the left head with the maniaxe while he is still in range(you have to alternate ducking and throwing axes so you get them out faster here).
6. Switch to Red Stealth and finish it on the same area where Peaches does in his run(you don't need diamond powers).

Also there is a strat for Final Marathon where you can finish the stage with the Red Stealth and then use diamond powers on the final boss to get a very quick kill that saves like 6 seconds I think but it requires a extremely difficult jump in the area where the bridge collapses(don't know for sure but the timing for that jump may be frame perfect)

TheWinslinator

2015-08-02 03:44:10 am

Hey so I tried your Boomerang Bosses method, and I just simply could not get it :/ It's probably because I can't get enough axes off on the head at the right, and I would therefore have to use diamond powers on the bottom head. However, through a HUGE ton of experimentation on this level, I actually found this crazy good method that allowed me to get a 2:27! And no, no diamond powers were needed to pull this trick off. Even better is that I recorded it, so I will have that uploaded sometime this week. I feel like we should tell peaches_ about one of these methods and see what he thinks about them and if it possible to implement them in his run.

As far as The Final Marathon strat, I was VERY intrigued by it, because I had always thought getting across that rock bridge as Red Stealth was impossible. I did a very in-depth TAS analysis of it, and while yes, it is possible, it still might as well be considered impossible RTA because I don't think anyone would ever attempt to do it. The first thing is the jump before entering onto the rock block platform, as doing so will give Red Stealth a better acceleration and the distance he needs to make it. However, there is only a 3-frame window for doing so, or else Red Stealth will not gain enough distance. The jump off of the rock blocks midway across the platform is, in fact, frame perfect. The jump must be made off the seventh rock block, and on the frame AFTER which it is destroyed, because you can do that in this game for some reason. To make it even more tough, there is a ceiling you have to worry about. Jumping too high will kill your jump distance and cause a straight fall to your doom. Jumping too low won't give you the distance you need, so here's how it works: Remember the 3-frame window earlier? Well, if you jumped on the second or third frame, at the rock block platform you unfortunately only have ONE frame to let go of the jump button at a precise point to skim just beneath the ceiling and BARELY make it across. However, if you jumped on the first of the three frames, you're given a two-frame window here. Big deal, right? XD

So this has to be the hardest speedrun trick found in Kid Chameleon so far. It contains a jump with only a 3 frame window, followed by another jump that is frame perfect, and a release of the jump button with a 1-2 frame window. All of this just to get across that gap with six extra seconds. I think it would be a really cool TAS strat to see, but I would never risk it this far in a run RTA.

Anyway, cool discovery! If it weren't for you, I would have lived the rest of my life thinking that Red Stealth could never make it across that gap XD

Hey so I tried your Boomerang Bosses method, and I just simply could not get it :/ It's probably because I can't get enough axes off on the head at the right, and I would therefore have to use diamond powers on the bottom head. However, through a HUGE ton of experimentation on this level, I actually found this crazy good method that allowed me to get a 2:27! And no, no diamond powers were needed to pull this trick off. Even better is that I recorded it, so I will have that uploaded sometime this week. I feel like we should tell peaches_ about one of these methods and see what he thinks about them and if it possible to implement them in his run.

As far as The Final Marathon strat, I was VERY intrigued by it, because I had always thought getting across that rock bridge as Red Stealth was impossible. I did a very in-depth TAS analysis of it, and while yes, it is possible, it still might as well be considered impossible RTA because I don't think anyone would ever attempt to do it. The first thing is the jump before entering onto the rock block platform, as doing so will give Red Stealth a better acceleration and the distance he needs to make it. However, there is only a 3-frame window for doing so, or else Red Stealth will not gain enough distance. The jump off of the rock blocks midway across the platform is, in fact, frame perfect. The jump must be made off the seventh rock block, and on the frame AFTER which it is destroyed, because you can do that in this game for some reason. To make it even more tough, there is a ceiling you have to worry about. Jumping too high will kill your jump distance and cause a straight fall to your doom. Jumping too low won't give you the distance you need, so here's how it works: Remember the 3-frame window earlier? Well, if you jumped on the second or third frame, at the rock block platform you unfortunately only have ONE frame to let go of the jump button at a precise point to skim just beneath the ceiling and BARELY make it across. However, if you jumped on the first of the three frames, you're given a two-frame window here. Big deal, right? XD

So this has to be the hardest speedrun trick found in Kid Chameleon so far. It contains a jump with only a 3 frame window, followed by another jump that is frame perfect, and a release of the jump button with a 1-2 frame window. All of this just to get across that gap with six extra seconds. I think it would be a really cool TAS strat to see, but I would never risk it this far in a run RTA.

Anyway, cool discovery! If it weren't for you, I would have lived the rest of my life thinking that Red Stealth could never make it across that gap XD

leftysheroes

2015-08-02 10:50:11 am

Yeah when I was working on this game I called that jumjump Red Stealth leap of faith but its kind of a muscle memory thing and i was able to pull it off 30% of the time which kind of made me have to go for it in runs.

TheWinslinator

2015-08-02 07:16:41 pm

Are you going to be considering running this game again? Pulling that trick off in a single segment run would be amazing to watch!

leftysheroes

2015-08-02 10:59:46 pm

I'm not really planning on starting to work on any other serious projects right now at least until I finish Body Harvest which I don't know when I'll be done with that.

I watched Peaches run and while it is pretty damn good there are places where my strats could save pretty decent time.
-If all my emulator boss strategies work for Shishkaboss,Boomerang Bosses, and Bagel Bros that is 20-25 seconds right there.
- 3-4 seconds on Hills of the Warrior 1 if he double enemy boost with the skycutter at the beginning is hit.
- Theres a couple seconds to be had on Whispering Woods 1 by using a quicker climb to the teleporter than what he does.
- 2 seconds on Knights Isle(I don't remember 2:45 Knights Isle being that hard)
- 12 seconds on Pyramids of Peril if you get the early elevator.
- 2 seconds on Coral Blade Grotto(there is a faster way to do the end of the stage that involves boosting off the whale and getting launched into a rubber block at pretty high speed.
- 3-4 seconds on Blizzard Mountain/Caves of Ice mostly on the Micromax climbs.
- 3-6 seconds on Alien Isle.
- My Final Marathon Strat/Final Boss would save 15 seconds over what he does but finishing Final Marathon with a 2:02 and having Red Stealth at the end is REALLY HARD. You have to Skycutter hover through most of the stage without stopping WITHOUT having access to diamond powers and make the leap of faith.

Just there that is a minute of time that could possibly be saved but realistically I can't see anyone getting everything to go right in a run cause the strategies are so hard. A time around 28:00 could be doable if my boss strategies work on the Genesis though but it would require a ton of effort because the 28:38 Peaches has is extremely well executed throughout so just matching his performance on the other levels I didn't mention would be pretty damn hard just in itself.

I'm not really planning on starting to work on any other serious projects right now at least until I finish Body Harvest which I don't know when I'll be done with that.

I watched Peaches run and while it is pretty damn good there are places where my strats could save pretty decent time.
-If all my emulator boss strategies work for Shishkaboss,Boomerang Bosses, and Bagel Bros that is 20-25 seconds right there.
- 3-4 seconds on Hills of the Warrior 1 if he double enemy boost with the skycutter at the beginning is hit.
- Theres a couple seconds to be had on Whispering Woods 1 by using a quicker climb to the teleporter than what he does.
- 2 seconds on Knights Isle(I don't remember 2:45 Knights Isle being that hard)
- 12 seconds on Pyramids of Peril if you get the early elevator.
- 2 seconds on Coral Blade Grotto(there is a faster way to do the end of the stage that involves boosting off the whale and getting launched into a rubber block at pretty high speed.
- 3-4 seconds on Blizzard Mountain/Caves of Ice mostly on the Micromax climbs. 
- 3-6 seconds on Alien Isle. 
- My Final Marathon Strat/Final Boss would save 15 seconds over what he does but finishing Final Marathon with a 2:02 and having Red Stealth at the end is REALLY HARD. You have to Skycutter hover through most of the stage without stopping WITHOUT having access to diamond powers and make the leap of faith.

Just there that is a minute of time that could possibly be saved but realistically I can't see anyone getting everything to go right in a run cause the strategies are so hard. A time around 28:00 could be doable if my boss strategies work on the Genesis though but it would require a ton of effort because the 28:38 Peaches has is extremely well executed throughout so just matching his performance on the other levels I didn't mention would be pretty damn hard just in itself.

TheWinslinator

2015-08-03 04:38:05 am

Well, the 28:38 one is actually not the most up to date. Here you can find one where he gets 28:25, which is even more damn good
http://www.twitch.tv/peaches/c/5693624
In this one he pulls off the early elevators in Pyramids of Peril.

I'm curious as to how in the hell you got a 2:37 on Shishkaboss. I am aware of a couple of methods that can get close to this time that use diamond powers. Your method may not use diamond powers, but if it does, I'm not sure how well strats that use them can be implemented. The only two 10-diamond blocks before that level are found in Under Skull Mountain I, but it would waste too much time to get both of them. Otherwise, it would sound like a very viable method.

I investigated some strats for Bagel Brothers today that use diamond powers and I was able to record footage defeating them in 2:28! You may have the exact same method in mind as I looked here afterwards and you predicted before that a 2:28 may be possible when using diamond powers. I'll also upload that video this week so that we could see if our methods are the same. If not, at least we have more options to work with Smiley

The great thing about using diamond powers in this boss fight is that it will save much more time here than at Shishkaboss, and now that 20 diamonds are no longer needed for Boomerang Bosses, they can instead be used here!

Oh by the way a 30% success rate for that jump? That's insane dude!! I would strongly consider coming back to this game, I mean damn, you have pretty significant knowledge in routing it as well; I say give it a go

Well, the 28:38 one is actually not the most up to date. Here you can find one where he gets 28:25, which is even more damn good
http://www.twitch.tv/peaches/c/5693624
In this one he pulls off the early elevators in Pyramids of Peril.

I'm curious as to how in the hell you got a 2:37 on Shishkaboss. I am aware of a couple of methods that can get close to this time that use diamond powers. Your method may not use diamond powers, but if it does, I'm not sure how well strats that use them can be implemented. The only two 10-diamond blocks before that level are found in Under Skull Mountain I, but it would waste too much time to get both of them. Otherwise, it would sound like a very viable method.

I investigated some strats for Bagel Brothers today that use diamond powers and I was able to record footage defeating them in 2:28! You may have the exact same method in mind as I looked here afterwards and you predicted before that a 2:28 may be possible when using diamond powers. I'll also upload that video this week so that we could see if our methods are the same. If not, at least we have more options to work with :) The great thing about using diamond powers in this boss fight is that it will save much more time here than at Shishkaboss, and now that 20 diamonds are no longer needed for Boomerang Bosses, they can instead be used here!

Oh by the way a 30% success rate for that jump? That's insane dude!! I would strongly consider coming back to this game, I mean damn, you have pretty significant knowledge in routing it as well; I say give it a go

leftysheroes

2015-08-03 06:46:32 pm

There are 2 hidden 10 diamond prize blocks in the Shishkaboss room in the top right chamber where you would pick up the Maniaxe/Red Stealth powerups.

TheWinslinator

2015-08-04 12:32:38 pm

Well it seemed to be impossible to get any sort of time save on Shishkaboss without the use of diamond powers, but I found a very difficult way to get 2:38 without diamond powers, after discovering that you can use Maniaxe in a pretty unique way to just wreak havoc on the heads.

leftysheroes

2015-08-04 06:47:43 pm

That is pretty neat I want to see these other boss strategies. I actually did get 2:28 on Bagel Bros once but my 2:28 strat was just about the hardest thing ever cause it involved some borderline TAS level shit. It literally took me hundreds of attempts just to get it once. The 2:23 at least on the emulator I practiced on was easy I could get it every time pretty much though.

As far as your video I think that what is happening is that the little short bounces on the rubber blocks is interrupting the throwing animation to allow you to throw axes quicker. My Boomerang Bosses involved something similar but I would alternate throwing and ducking which also allows you to throw axes quicker. Jumping under a very low ceiling works to and in fact my 2:28 Bagel Brothers used this with Red Stealth on the bottom head to rack a bunch of hits up quickly but getting to the top head in the manner necessary was insanely hard and there was likely frame perfect jumps involved so not happening don't bother with my 2:28 bagel bros strat LOL

That is pretty neat I want to see these other boss strategies. I actually did get 2:28 on Bagel Bros once but my 2:28 strat was just about the hardest thing ever cause it involved some borderline TAS level shit. It literally took me hundreds of attempts just to get it once. The 2:23 at least on the emulator I practiced on was easy I could get it every time pretty much though.
 
As far as your video I think that what is happening is that the little short bounces on the rubber blocks is interrupting the throwing animation to allow you to throw axes quicker.  My Boomerang Bosses involved something similar but I would alternate throwing and ducking which also allows you to throw axes quicker. Jumping under a very low ceiling works to and in fact my 2:28 Bagel Brothers used this with Red Stealth on the bottom head to rack a bunch of hits up quickly but getting to the top head in the manner necessary was insanely hard and there was likely frame perfect jumps involved so not happening don't bother with my 2:28 bagel bros strat LOL

TheWinslinator

2015-08-06 11:07:26 am

Well the good news for Bagel Brothers that I have is that of the four new boss starts discovered, the Bagel Brothers one i really wouldn't consider as hard to do as the Shishkaboss or Boomerang Bosses methods. Yours sounds pretty insane with frame perfect jumps? Wow, my method does not even really give me an opportunity to do the quick slashing with red stealth under the prize blocks for the bottom head; the whole route in the level is actually pretty straightforward.

So I told you that I got a 2:27 on Boomerang Bosses... well, I lied, and I actually improved it to a 2:33 yesterday if that is in any way believable! It uses the same method with Maniaxe as in Shishkaboss far more efficiently, and I think your explanation of why it works is pretty on-point. I still can't get your technique of alternating ducking and throwing to get off axes any faster though, lol, but luckily we won't be needing that here. Samurai Haze is still no longer used, either!

Well the good news for Bagel Brothers that I have is that of the four new boss starts discovered, the Bagel Brothers one i really wouldn't consider as hard to do as the Shishkaboss or Boomerang Bosses methods. Yours sounds pretty insane with frame perfect jumps? Wow, my method does not even really give me an opportunity to do the quick slashing with red stealth under the prize blocks for the bottom head; the whole route in the level is actually pretty straightforward.

So I told you that I got a 2:27 on Boomerang Bosses... well, I lied, and I actually improved it to a 2:33 yesterday if that is in any way believable! It uses the same method with Maniaxe as in Shishkaboss far more efficiently, and I think your explanation of why it works is pretty on-point. I still can't get your technique of alternating ducking and throwing to get off axes any faster though, lol, but luckily we won't be needing that here. Samurai Haze is still no longer used, either!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_cUxR1f7XU

leftysheroes

2015-08-06 01:12:04 pm

Duck cancelling doesn't actually allow you to throw axes as crazy as you do here(at least not in real time) but it does allow you to throw them faster than you otherwise would be able to. This works the same way that jumping against a low roof does.

That being said just mashing the button as fast as you can may not be the best idea if you want to throw as many axes as possible. Instead you should try to get a rhythm going because there is a limit to how fast axes(or red stealth sword strikes) can be executed. This is according to the kid chameleon page on tasvideos but normally for maniaxe its one axe every 18 frames but cancelling the animation can allow you to throw an axe every 5 frames which I think for this game is about 6 per second but for your purpose you should try to hit the tap the axe every time you touch the rubber block for maximum efficiency although that would probably only allow you to save maybe a second but current Boomerang Bosses TAS time is 2:33 so if you can use this to beat it and get a 2:34 that would be pretty sick.

Duck cancelling doesn't actually allow you to throw axes as crazy as you do here(at least not in real time) but it does allow you to throw them faster than you otherwise would be able to. This works the same way that jumping against a low roof does.

That being said just mashing the button as fast as you can may not be the best idea if you want to throw as many axes as possible. Instead you should try to get a rhythm going because there is a limit to how fast axes(or red stealth sword strikes) can be executed. This is according to the kid chameleon page on tasvideos but normally for maniaxe its one axe every 18 frames but cancelling the animation can allow you to throw an axe every 5 frames which I think for this game is about 6 per second but for your purpose you should try to hit the tap the axe every time you touch the rubber block for maximum efficiency although that would probably only allow you to save maybe a second but current Boomerang Bosses TAS time is 2:33 so if you can use this to beat it and get a 2:34 that would be pretty sick.

TheWinslinator

2015-08-12 07:35:01 am

Lol, sorry about the brief hiatus; had some weird internet issues XD

In most situations in this game, I would agree that getting a rhythm (especially for using Red Stealth's sword fast) down would increase the efficiency by a great deal. However, in this very ideal case where Maniaxe bounces so close to the rubber blocks, he is able to throw off a maximum of one axe every two frames! Since I can button-mash at a maximum of 12 inputs/second, I would still be too slow mashing at my fastest possible speed, so I just hit the button as fast as I can and hope I get lucky, lol. A 2:34 might be possible and would be pretty sweet if I had the patience to attempt to get one, but I was still really happy to tie the TAS because that's an awesome accomplishment in my book Smiley

Since the last post, both new Bagel Brothers and Plethora strats have been uploaded. I have to credit Kitchengun from the Kid Chameleon Wiki, who had the largest hand in discovering these strats; pretty much all I did was perfect them to really good times, with path tweaks only on Bagel Brothers. Bagel Brothers was done in as low as the time shown (15 seconds faster!) all because of the use of the Samurai Haze at the beginning, which sets up some very favorable patterns for all three heads.

And with this new Plethora strat, we're assuming that you enter this level with a helmet that is not Red Stealth, because we all know how difficult it is to bring Red Stealth to that level with 20 diamonds is XD So if you enter as Cyclone, Skycutter, etc., it's actually best to grab the Micromax helmet and perform two sets of jumping on top of Plethora's head, and that should beat this boss up to 9 seconds faster.

Lol, sorry about the brief hiatus; had some weird internet issues XD

In most situations in this game, I would agree that getting a rhythm (especially for using Red Stealth's sword fast) down would increase the efficiency by a great deal. However, in this very ideal case where Maniaxe bounces so close to the rubber blocks, he is able to throw off a maximum of one axe every two frames! Since I can button-mash at a maximum of 12 inputs/second, I would still be too slow mashing at my fastest possible speed, so I just hit the button as fast as I can and hope I get lucky, lol. A 2:34 might be possible and would be pretty sweet if I had the [i]patience[/i] to attempt to get one, but I was still really happy to tie the TAS because that's an awesome accomplishment in my book :)

Since the last post, both new Bagel Brothers and Plethora strats have been uploaded. I have to credit Kitchengun from the Kid Chameleon Wiki, who had the largest hand in discovering these strats; pretty much all I did was perfect them to really good times, with path tweaks only on Bagel Brothers. Bagel Brothers was done in as low as the time shown (15 seconds faster!) all because of the use of the Samurai Haze at the beginning, which sets up some very favorable patterns for all three heads.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTApCP0IM3s

And with this new Plethora strat, we're assuming that you enter this level with a helmet that is not Red Stealth, because we all know how difficult it is to bring Red Stealth to that level with 20 diamonds is XD So if you enter as Cyclone, Skycutter, etc., it's actually best to grab the Micromax helmet and perform two sets of jumping on top of Plethora's head, and that should beat this boss up to 9 seconds faster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlBXMa72K00

leftysheroes

2015-08-12 11:31:01 am

Those are excellent strategies but for the Bagel Brothers if the route allows you to enter with 49 diamonds you should strongly consider using Samurai Haze twice in the Bagel Brothers fight because you really won't need the extra diamonds anywhere else if you go with your Plethora strat.

You will leave Bagel Bros with 9 diamonds.
-You will get 1 just completing Alien Twilight(this gives you 10)
-There is a very easy to grab 10 diamond bonus in Secrets of the rocks(20)
--There are 2 more quick 10 diamond blocks at the beginning of Final Marathon(40)

There are only 2 places after Bagel Bros where you will potentially find yourself in need of diamond powers and thosw would be Alien Isle and Final Marathon.
On Alien Isle the last part where you have to do the climbs is obviously the terrible part but you should always go in there with full Micromax health(even if you have to get the hidden block) and if you do this and play the last part right the chance of needing to use diamond powers is pretty slim.

The route for finishing Final Marathon with Skycutter that I had only used diamond powers once because there are a couple health refills that you can use to allow some damage abuse.

The other thing worth looking into for a all bosses is that if these boss strategies can be made consistent enough to use it may be possible to get enough diamonds by Pyramids of Peril to use the Iron Knights 50 diamond power and give yourself another hit point(which would make several of the later levels much easier).

Anyway for Bagel Bros consider that in a speedrun you will always enter the stage with Cyclone and that will save 1-2 seconds getting the Red Stealth at the beginning. Using a second Samurai Haze to freeze the last head right under the flag spawn point will save a few more seconds and this could potentially allow you to get something like a 2:32 or 2:33 without really penalizing the run later on.

Those are excellent strategies but for the Bagel Brothers if the route allows you to enter with 49 diamonds you should strongly consider using Samurai Haze twice in the Bagel Brothers fight because you really won't need the extra diamonds anywhere else if you go with your Plethora strat.

You will leave Bagel Bros with 9 diamonds. 
-You will get 1 just completing Alien Twilight(this gives you 10)
-There is a very easy to grab 10 diamond bonus in Secrets of the rocks(20)
--There are 2 more quick 10 diamond blocks at the beginning of Final Marathon(40)

There are only 2 places after Bagel Bros where you will potentially find yourself in need of diamond powers and thosw would be Alien Isle and Final Marathon.
On Alien Isle the last part where you have to do the climbs is obviously the terrible part but you should always go in there with full Micromax health(even if you have to get the hidden block) and if you do this and play the last part right the chance of needing to use diamond powers is pretty slim.

The route for finishing Final Marathon with Skycutter that I had only used diamond powers once because there are a couple health refills that you can use to allow some damage abuse.

The other thing worth looking into for a all bosses is that if these boss strategies can be made consistent enough to use it may be possible to get enough diamonds by Pyramids of Peril to use the Iron Knights 50 diamond power and give yourself another hit point(which would make several of the later levels much easier).

Anyway for Bagel Bros consider that in a speedrun you will always enter the stage with Cyclone and that will save 1-2 seconds getting the Red Stealth at the beginning. Using a second Samurai Haze to freeze the last head right under the flag spawn point will save a few more seconds and this could potentially allow you to get something like a 2:32 or 2:33 without really penalizing the run later on.

TheWinslinator

2015-08-12 04:01:36 pm

Oh my diamonds counter when doing this level was not accurate to what you should have during a run, it is in fact about 30, assuming no diamond powers are used on Boomerang Bosses anymore. Sorry about the confusion but I had 49 diamonds available in case I wanted to do any other tests.

TheWinslinator

Edit history:

TheWinslinator: 2016-09-11 01:58:33 pm

2015-09-02 02:21:41 pm

I've never actually thought about using Iron Knight's 50-diamond power at all in runs, but I do think that using that many diamonds for a power that doesn't offer too many benefits is a bit costly (there's little opportunity to even get that many up till that point). I will investigate though. It would definitely save the need for diamond powers on Alien Isle.

I'll see what other diamonds I could scrounge up to potentially use Samurai Haze twice on Bagel Bros. While I don't think I can get as high as a 2:33, it would definitely get me closer to the flag, and not miss as many slashes.

TheWinslinator

2016-09-11 02:11:25 pm

Hey everyone, I've submitted an Any% speedrun (done in 1:33.80) for public verification if anybody's interested in viewing it:

https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/kid_chameleon_available_for_verification__due_2016.09.202.html