Kid Chameleon Speed Run(Full game All Bosses)

Edit history:

leftysheroes: 2009-04-30 11:06:06 pm

2008-08-02 04:37:23 pm

I'm currently working on a speedrun for Kid Chameleon. The only condition of the run is that all four boss fights must be completed. The all boss stipulation is based on 2 things.

1. It is impossible to play every stage in the game on a single playthrough.
2. The 100k warp on Under Skull Mountain 1 or the secret teleporter on Hoverboard Beach imo are warps in the same category as the secret warp to Plethora at the end of the final stage and if I would do a run with warps I may as well just use that one which wouldn't be that interesting. (I could do a run with the Plethora run as an add on to the full run if anyone would want to see it though.

Thread title:

bmn

2008-08-02 10:00:28 pm

Good freaking luck. "Horror" is an understatement when it comes to Kid Chameleon. I'd love to see this done, though.

Speaking of which, I wonder if SDA would accept a run using that level skip in the second stage...

himsa

2008-08-02 10:05:16 pm

Quote from bmn:

Good freaking luck. "Horror" is an understatement when it comes to Kid Chameleon. I'd love to see this done, though.

Speaking of which, I wonder if SDA would accept a run using that level skip in the second stage...

I would think not because you need to type in a cheat to make that teleport work. And yeah you're right. I'm not sure what I have gotten myself into.

TheRandomPie_IV

2008-08-03 03:35:28 am

I'd definately be interested in this. A few deaths towards the end would be unavoiodable, I think anyone who's played the game would understand that.

Caos2

2008-08-03 06:28:07 am

Lurkin' and watching!

This game is hell on earth and I would like very much to forget about it.

himsa

2008-08-03 11:53:09 am

Quote from TheRandomPie_IV:

I'd definately be interested in this. A few deaths towards the end would be unavoiodable, I think anyone who's played the game would understand that.

Could you be more specific on which levels?

I'm have an extremely hard time not dying on just the final marathon. I can do most levels before that but the problem is I still haven't played them enough to do them in the fastest possible time.

Also having a hard time killing the first boss level in a fast time, it looks like in the TAS the dude is using like a super turbo button or something that makes him use the red samurai's sword extremely fast.

TheRandomPie_IV

2008-08-04 03:55:59 am

Looking at a map, most of the levels I was thinking of are ones you probably wouldn't be doing anyway (Monster Island, Towers of Blood...).

The TAS gets just under 5 (4.6 for what it's worth) sword strikes a second, but I doubt that a human player would be able to come close to that in an actual gameplay session.

leftysheroes

2009-04-10 08:44:45 pm

I have been working on a run of this game (most optimal path that fights all 4 boss fights) and before I actually actually started to attempt to get a run recorded I have a couple questions.

1. There are a couple of stages where you can use a instage teleporter to save a little time by warping ahead in the stage (Wind Castles 2, Land Below) but I tend to feel as if using the instage teleports is kind of cheap and wanted to know what the opinion on this was.

2. Since this game has an in game timer for the individual levels would it be timed by adding up the individual level times. The reason this is important is if it was just gonna be timed title screen till touching flag after defeating final boss there would be some levels where I would then take damage on purpose or grab a diamond or helmet where it wouldnt waste that much time in order to avoid getting some of the point bonuses that are awarded after completing the stages.

3. This question is actually for himsa if he is still around in one of his/her previous posts he alluded to having watched a TAS that he wasnt able to beat Shishkaboss near as fast as it but the only TAS that I can find is the one on TASvideos that uses the 100000 point warp on Skull Mountain 1 to warp to Woods of Despair 1 and if he was still around I would like to know where the full run TAS is (if it exists) so I could make sure there arent any more tricks/time savers before Boomerang Bosses that I havent been able to find.

I have been working on a run of this game (most optimal path that fights all 4 boss fights) and before I actually actually started to attempt to get a run recorded I have a couple questions.

1.  There are a couple of stages where you can use a instage teleporter to save a little time by warping ahead in the stage (Wind Castles 2, Land Below)  but I tend to feel as if using the instage teleports is kind of cheap and wanted to know what the opinion on this was.

2.  Since this game has an in game timer for the individual levels would it be timed by adding up the individual level times. The reason this is important is if it was just gonna be timed title screen till touching flag after defeating final boss there would be some levels where I would then take damage on purpose or grab a diamond or helmet where it wouldnt waste that much time in order to avoid getting some of the point bonuses that are awarded after completing the stages.

3.  This question is actually for himsa if he is still around in one of his/her previous posts he alluded to having watched a TAS that he wasnt able to beat Shishkaboss near as fast as it but the only TAS that I can find is the one on TASvideos that uses the 100000 point warp on Skull Mountain 1 to warp to Woods of Despair 1 and if he was still around I would like to know where the full run TAS is (if it exists) so I could make sure there arent any more tricks/time savers before Boomerang Bosses that I havent been able to find.

TheRandomPie_IV

2009-04-12 04:42:06 am

Nice to see someone working on this again!

Personally I think you should use the in stage teleporters, largely because you are forced to use a few and it doesn't make too much differece (there are only 2/3 right?). But I certainly wouldn't mind too much either way, its your run.

IIRC for timing the in game timer is used unless there's a really good reason not to use it.

The (not yet finished) full TAS run can be found here:

http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/505350984/Kid%20Chameleon%20%28JUE%29%20%5B%21%5D%20Long.gmv

It uses a route that aims to visit as many stages as possible, so I don't know if there'll be much in it that will help you.

leftysheroes

2009-04-12 09:30:35 pm

First off thanks for the info.

Even though the full game TAS wont be much help as far as path goes I'm sure there will be at least a few in stage tricks that Ill be able to take from it and use. I'm also really interested in the strategy it uses for Shishkaboss and Boomerang Bosses. So far my best times for those 2 fights are 2:37 and 2:20 respectively.

I actually did some test full game runs and my best so far is 34:15ish(no deaths) if all goes well I hope to have the run posted on here by sometime in late May to early June.

As far as any other major time saving tricks I played through the game normally and the only thing I could think of was if there was a Beserker on the top part of Beneath the Twisted Hills so that I could just break through the ice wall and go right to the flag without having to go through the underground cave with all the tanks but I looked all throught the area and I couldnt find one all I turned up was a bunch of useless 10000 point blocks.

TheRandomPie_IV

2009-04-14 04:04:29 pm

Quote from leftysheroes:

I actually did some test full game runs and my best so far is 34:15ish(no deaths) if all goes well I hope to have the run posted on here by sometime in late May to early June.

Wow, that's not bad at all. Deathless Final Marathon at the end of a run must take nerves of steel.

leftysheroes

2009-04-14 05:45:47 pm

Thanks a lot.

Actually Final Marathon really isnt that bad compared to some of the other stages late in the game(Alien Isle, Ice Gods Vengeance) for 2 reasons. First of all Im really good at using Skycutter and that makes things way easier, even more when you consider I have 40-45 diamonds by the time I get there and Skycutter's 20 diamond power is 5-10 seconds of invincibility which I can use back to back for the hardest part of the stage.

As far as Alien Isle goes it would be really easy if it wasnt for the fact that I can do everything right and still get screwed over by those damned UFOs.

The only other thing I wanted to clarify was the 34.15 was actually timed from the title screen straight through till defeating the final boss so it probably would be something like 26-27 minutes just counting actual play time with the potential for potentially as much as 3 minutes(kind of educated guess) worth of improvements.

leftysheroes

2009-04-16 11:30:31 pm

Quick question and update(sorta)

First of all I have no idea how to watch the TAS video from the link that RandomPie provided, I went to tasvideos and I thought I had if figured out but I still couldnt get it to work so if anyone can help me out it would be greatly appreciated.

As far as the update goes I read through the Kid Chameleon topic on tasvideos and found out that there was actually a hidden Skycutter on Hills of the Warrior 1 which I had no idea that it was there despite having played through the game hundreds of times. I tested out how fast it would be to take the Skycutter versus the route I was using and even though I have to do an extra Elsewhere stage to keep the Skycutter through the last part of Crystal Crags 1 it still saves between 15-20 seconds of instage time which is pretty good. The only small problem is that whenever I try to go under the 3rd building on Windy City with the Skycutter I get stuck and I tried more times than I can count and couldnt manage to slip through so I have to go over the building.

Quick question and update(sorta)

First of all I have no idea how to watch the TAS video from the link that RandomPie provided, I went to tasvideos and I thought I had if figured out but I still couldnt get it to work so if anyone can help me out it would be greatly appreciated.

As far as the update goes I read through the Kid Chameleon topic on tasvideos and found out that there was actually a hidden Skycutter on Hills of the Warrior 1 which I had no idea that it was there despite having played through the game hundreds of times. I tested out how fast it would be to take the Skycutter versus the route I was using and even though I have to do an extra Elsewhere stage to keep the Skycutter through the last part of Crystal Crags 1 it still saves between 15-20 seconds of instage time which is pretty good. The only small problem is that whenever I try to go under the 3rd building on Windy City with the Skycutter I get stuck and I tried more times than I can count and couldnt manage to slip through so I have to go over the building.

ZenicReverie

2009-04-17 11:01:18 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

Quote from leftysheroes:

Quick question and update(sorta)

First of all I have no idea how to watch the TAS video from the link that RandomPie provided, I went to tasvideos and I thought I had if figured out but I still couldnt get it to work so if anyone can help me out it would be greatly appreciated.

As far as the update goes I read through the Kid Chameleon topic on tasvideos and found out that there was actually a hidden Skycutter on Hills of the Warrior 1 which I had no idea that it was there despite having played through the game hundreds of times. I tested out how fast it would be to take the Skycutter versus the route I was using and even though I have to do an extra Elsewhere stage to keep the Skycutter through the last part of Crystal Crags 1 it still saves between 15-20 seconds of instage time which is pretty good. The only small problem is that whenever I try to go under the 3rd building on Windy City with the Skycutter I get stuck and I tried more times than I can count and couldnt manage to slip through so I have to go over the building.

Does the mirror not work: http://www.archive.org/download/kidchameleon-timeattackv2-truncated/kidchameleon-timeattackv2-truncated.avi

I usually use that if available because seeds for the torrents can take a while to find.

[quote="leftysheroes"]
Quick question and update(sorta)

First of all I have no idea how to watch the TAS video from the link that RandomPie provided, I went to tasvideos and I thought I had if figured out but I still couldnt get it to work so if anyone can help me out it would be greatly appreciated.

As far as the update goes I read through the Kid Chameleon topic on tasvideos and found out that there was actually a hidden Skycutter on Hills of the Warrior 1 which I had no idea that it was there despite having played through the game hundreds of times. I tested out how fast it would be to take the Skycutter versus the route I was using and even though I have to do an extra Elsewhere stage to keep the Skycutter through the last part of Crystal Crags 1 it still saves between 15-20 seconds of instage time which is pretty good. The only small problem is that whenever I try to go under the 3rd building on Windy City with the Skycutter I get stuck and I tried more times than I can count and couldnt manage to slip through so I have to go over the building.

[/quote]

Does the mirror not work: http://www.archive.org/download/kidchameleon-timeattackv2-truncated/kidchameleon-timeattackv2-truncated.avi

I usually use that if available because seeds for the torrents can take a while to find.

leftysheroes

2009-04-17 03:33:53 pm

First off thanks for the help although I think there has been a misunderstanding. The link that you posted is for the completed run that Truncated did that uses the 100k warp and I have already seen that and can watch it any time I want to.

The one that I cant figure out how to watch is for the unfinished full game run that RandomPie posted a little while back that doesnt use the previously mentioned 100k warp.

[quote author=TheRandomPie_IV link=topic=8601.msg274766#msg274766 date=1239532926

The (not yet finished) full TAS run can be found here:

[url=http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/505350984/Kid%20Chameleon%20%28JUE%29%20%5B%21%5D%20Long.gmv]http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/505350984/Kid%20Chameleon%20%28JUE%29%20%5B%21%5D%20Long.gmv[/url]

It uses a route that aims to visit as many stages as possible, so I don't know if there'll be much in it that will help you.
[/quote]

ZenicReverie

2009-04-17 03:42:37 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

Oh, I see. Well you'd need the correct emulator and rom version right? I've not really used emulators and roms much, so I can't really help. Have you had any luck contacting the creator?

leftysheroes

2009-04-17 08:43:56 pm

I have the same problem as you not familiar with emulators and other crap like that. I actually think RandomPie was the one who actually was working on it so maybe he can let me know what I need to watch it.

TheRandomPie_IV

2009-04-19 11:13:29 am

I've just quickly dumped it on google video (in two parts):

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=8230924526735801285
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-6642957159736618789

The quality is terible but it should be ok for what you want it for.

leftysheroes

2009-04-19 04:41:16 pm

Thanks a lot.

So far there is at least 1 really good trick from that run I should be able to use for my run(boosting off the rams with the Cyclone on Pyramids of Peril so I dont have to wait for the one platform). I had been trying to think of a way to do it ever since I found the Cyclone on Devils Marsh 2 and no longer had the Skycutter from Hoverboard Beach. When I first tried it out I didnt think it would be realistic but once I figured out what to do it really isnt that hard and I can pull it off 80-90% of the time

As far as the boss fights go the Boomerang Bosses fight is absolutely ridiculous and yet I think I may have got an idea from watching it that may help me to improve my time for it.

Finally I guess I dont have to worry about trying to go under the 3rd building on Windy City with Skycutter any more, it this TAS cant do it it must be impossible lol.

leftysheroes

2009-04-22 05:08:10 pm

OK, heres a quick update.

So far aside from Pyramids of Peril, Ive now also come up with improved routes for Dragonspike, Whispering Woods 1, Knights Isle, and Stairway to Oblivion that saves a total of 15-20 seconds off my original routes.

On a much more interesting route Ive found a really fast (2:31-2:32 6-7 seconds faster than Truncateds run on TASvideos) strategy for beating the final boss. It requires a Red Stealth helmet and 20 diamonds.

Unfortunately there isnt a Red Stealth helmet in the final battle arena unless its in some obscure place that I overlooked, so in order to use that strategy Id have to finish Final Marathon with a Red Stealth helmet. As far as I can tell the deepest in Final Marathon that a Red Stealth helmet can be obtained is in the P blocks right before the platform that rises up to the ceiling where you have to crawl through to move forward. Most of Final Marathon after that point is easy with the Red Stealth the only issue is the section where there is the bridge that gets destroyed by the cannon blocks. Its extremely difficult although possible to get past that section but in order to actually use the strategy Id have to be able to pull off the jump on an at least somewhat reliable basis which I'm gonna keep working on it but I'm not sure I'll ever ber able to get good enough at that jump to use it in the actual run.

OK, heres a quick update.

So far aside from Pyramids of Peril, Ive now also come up with improved routes for Dragonspike, Whispering Woods 1, Knights Isle, and Stairway to Oblivion that saves a total of 15-20 seconds off my original routes.

On a much more interesting route Ive found a really fast (2:31-2:32 6-7 seconds faster than Truncateds run on TASvideos) strategy for beating the final boss. It requires a Red Stealth helmet and 20 diamonds.

Unfortunately there isnt a Red Stealth helmet in the final battle arena unless its in some obscure place that I overlooked, so in order to use that strategy Id have to finish Final Marathon with a Red Stealth helmet. As far as I can tell the deepest in Final Marathon that a Red Stealth helmet can be obtained is in the P blocks right before the platform that rises up to the ceiling where you have to crawl through to move forward. Most of Final Marathon after that point is easy with the Red Stealth the only issue is the section where there is the bridge that gets destroyed by the cannon blocks. Its extremely difficult although possible to get past that section but in order to actually use the strategy Id have to be able to pull off the jump on an at least somewhat reliable basis which I'm gonna keep working on it but I'm not sure I'll ever ber able to get good enough at that jump to use it in the actual run.

TheRandomPie_IV

2009-04-23 12:03:53 pm

Very nice to here. I guess the Dragonspike thing would be going over the top of the last smashable wall? I'm afraid that's definately the last red stealth helmet (you may want to check out http://kidchameleon.wikia.com/wiki/K-E, it's a level viewer/editor that can shows all the hidden blocks and lets you see their contents by mousing over them; not very user friendly though, and for the most part there's nothing useful that you wouldn't already know about).

leftysheroes

2009-04-23 01:51:27 pm

Ive actually found a semiconsistent way to clear the gap with the Red Stealth that isnt that hard to do. After the cannon blocks dissapear I have to jump into the ceiling for some reason its faster than just running out onto the bridge and at the last moment I barely tap the jump button so that I do like a 75% jump and not hit the ceiling. At this point I can make it about 1 of every 3 attemps and Ive only been working on it a couple days.

I also checked timing wise its on average 8-11 seconds slower to complete Final Marathon with Red Stealth as opposed to Skycutter primarily cause I now have to wait for that stupid platform to go up and then come back down after switching to Red Stealth but my previous method for beating Plethora reliably came in with times 2:08-2:12 which is 19-23 seconds slower than fighting the battle with Red Stealth plus the Red Stealth fight is very easy to pull off.

leftysheroes

2009-04-25 11:15:59 pm

Quick progress update.

I'm pretty sure I've finalized my strategies for Shishkaboss, Boomerang Bosses, and Plethora. On Plethora I tried grabbing the Micromax helmet right after using Red Stealths 20 diamond power to see if I could improve the time some more but I still ended up with the same time I got by using the Red Stealth and the Red Stealth is easier so Im gonna stick with it.

As far as Bagel Bros I managed to improve my best time from 2:20 to 2:23 and Im literally 1-2 Red Stealth strikes from being able to push the time to 2:26/2:27. The problem is to pull that time off I would have to take out the middle head while still on the second platform area where you can stand with Red Stealth and just beat on it. It takes 30 hits to take it out and I consistently get 28-29 hits but just cant seem to get 30. As far as my striking speed on the long TAS that RandomPie posted for comparison when the middle head on Boomerang Bosses rises up including the jump hit glitch it scores 13 hits and I can consistently score 12 hits also including the glitch so my striking speed is pretty fast. As of now there are a couple ways that I may be able to remedy this which would be either trying to use the jump glitch while in the 3block high area on the second platform area or just temporarily leave the middle head with the 1-2 hp left go underground and kill the bottom head and then finish the middle head off real quick on the way to the top head(not really sure if it would be in a decent position for me to do that without wasting time though have to experiment.)

The only other thing is if himsa (person who started the thread) sees this message I'm seriously gonna do this run and I would prefer that the thread title would be changed to represent that.

Quick progress update.

I'm pretty sure I've finalized my strategies for Shishkaboss, Boomerang Bosses, and Plethora. On Plethora I tried grabbing the Micromax helmet right after using Red Stealths 20 diamond power to see if I could improve the time some more but I still ended up with the same time I got by using the Red Stealth and the Red Stealth is easier so Im gonna stick with it.

As far as Bagel Bros I managed to improve my best time from 2:20 to 2:23 and Im literally 1-2 Red Stealth strikes from being able to push the time to 2:26/2:27. The problem is to pull that time off I would have to take out the middle head while still on the second platform area where you can stand with Red Stealth and just beat on it. It takes 30 hits to take it out and I consistently get 28-29 hits but just cant seem to get 30. As far as my striking speed on the long TAS that RandomPie posted for comparison when the middle head on Boomerang Bosses rises up including the jump hit glitch it scores 13 hits and I can consistently score 12 hits also including the glitch so my striking speed is pretty fast. As of now there are a couple ways that I may be able to remedy this which would be either trying to use the jump glitch while in the 3block high area on the second platform area or just temporarily leave the middle head with the 1-2 hp left go underground and kill the bottom head and then finish the middle head off real quick on the way to the top head(not really sure if it would be in a decent position for me to do that without wasting time though have to experiment.)

The only other thing is if himsa (person who started the thread) sees this message I'm seriously gonna do this run and I would prefer that the thread title would be changed to represent that.

leftysheroes

2009-04-30 07:03:13 pm

I've been working on the Bagel Brothers fight and it turns out that it is possible to kill the middle head on the first 2 platforms although using that strategy makes the fight extraordinarily hard to pull off and the best time Ive been able to get using that strategy is 2:27. On the other hand using a still more aggressive version of my original strategy I can now get 2:23 pretty consistently. There are 3 main problems with the 2:27 strategy.

1. The max possible strikes on the first 2 platforms that I can pull off is 30 and any slight hesitation between strikes(even a fraction of a second) makes finishing the first head off on the first 2 areas just about impossible.

2. After killing off the third(top) head I end up in a really bad part of the level for reaching the flag quickly.

3. In order to get the 2:27 I have to use Red Stealths diamond haze so that I finish the 3rd head in a spot that I can get to the flag quickly. Without the diamond have my best times are in the 2:24/2:25 range. In order to use the diamond haze I would need 2 extra 10 diamond boxes that I don't already get that wouldnt waste any time to grab and as far as I know there arent any. There are 2 such boxes on Wind Castles 1 and Woods of Despair 1 that are close to the fastest path but they still take 2-3 seconds each to get.

I've been working on the Bagel Brothers fight and it turns out that it is possible to kill the middle head on the first 2 platforms although using that strategy makes the fight extraordinarily hard to pull off and the best time Ive been able to get using that strategy is 2:27. On the other hand using a still more aggressive version of my original strategy I can now get 2:23 pretty consistently. There are 3 main problems with the 2:27 strategy.

1. The max possible strikes on the first 2 platforms that I can pull off is 30 and any slight hesitation between strikes(even a fraction of a second) makes finishing the first head off on the first 2 areas just about impossible.

2. After killing off the third(top) head I end up in a really bad part of the level for reaching the flag quickly.

3. In order to get the 2:27 I have to use Red Stealths diamond haze so that I finish the 3rd head in a spot that I can get to the flag quickly. Without the diamond have my best times are in the 2:24/2:25 range. In order to use the diamond haze I would need 2 extra 10 diamond boxes that I don't already get that wouldnt waste any time to grab and as far as I know there arent any. There are 2 such boxes on Wind Castles 1 and Woods of Despair 1 that are close to the fastest path but they still take 2-3 seconds each to get.

mikwuyma

2009-04-30 07:09:30 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Quote from leftysheroes:

The only other thing is if himsa (person who started the thread) sees this message I'm seriously gonna do this run and I would prefer that the thread title would be changed to represent that.

Do you want me to change the title, or better yet, do you want the first post so you can change it yourself?