Kagero: Deception II

Riskbreaker Y

Edit history:

Riskbreaker Y: 2011-06-27 02:06:57 pm

Riskbreaker Y: 2011-06-27 02:06:07 pm

Riskbreaker Y: 2011-06-27 02:05:18 pm

2011-06-27 02:04:32 pm

berserker status

Chain Needle is pretty weak compared to Laser Arrows. The other benefit of Laser Arrows is the fact that it goes right through enemies so it can potentially hit multiple targets. Best of all, they can damage Shoguns straight up.

Hmm, didn't really think of that. That can work maybe. You just have to set the Laser Arrows parallel to the electrified wall and see where they work best (at the foot of the stairwell or above). That would be quite the devastating combo. Nothing would survive that.

Push Wall alone works? Well, iirc, I only set off the crate once in the first manor area against McLord in Mission 4 (and one other time in the castle area with a Spike Wall only). He'll survive the blast if you don't include a Spike Rock with the Push Wall set up. The electric chair only has some chance of being used in Mission 5 but it seems unlikely because not only would you have to maneuver constantly to avoid damage (getting that extra 500 Ark for no damage is pretty important for most of the run) but you'd have to set up another trap arrangement to kill the 2nd enemy (either the knight character or the fighter girl). I can test this some more though since it's so early in the run to see what's fastest; it'd be entertaining to include the electric chair. Knocking over columns is actually useful and will be included in Mission 2. It's about 3-5 secs. faster to make use of them (or one I should say) rather than going for the usual Bear Trap, regular arrows, and Mega Rock combo. Looks better too.

I'm really going for the minimal amount of refresh time possible. Normally I try to kill them with the initial trap set up and collect the bonus Ark from that. If they survive, my traps normally charge in time to nail them as soon as they recover and finish the job. Using disabling traps may look better and may even require more skill to set up but they usually don't make things go any faster unfortunately.

Chain Needle is pretty weak compared to Laser Arrows.  The other benefit of Laser Arrows is the fact that it goes right through enemies so it can potentially hit multiple targets.  Best of all, they can damage Shoguns straight up.

Hmm, didn't really think of that.  That can work maybe.  You just have to set the Laser Arrows parallel to the electrified wall and see where they work best (at the foot of the stairwell or above).  That would be quite the devastating combo.  Nothing would survive that.

Push Wall alone works?  Well, iirc, I only set off the crate once in the first manor area against McLord in Mission 4 (and one other time in the castle area with a Spike Wall only).  He'll survive the blast if you don't include a Spike Rock with the Push Wall set up.  The electric chair only has some chance of being used in Mission 5 but it seems unlikely because not only would you have to maneuver constantly to avoid damage (getting that extra 500 Ark for no damage is pretty important for most of the run) but you'd have to set up another trap arrangement to kill the 2nd enemy (either the knight character or the fighter girl).  I can test this some more though since it's so early in the run to see what's fastest; it'd be entertaining to include the electric chair.  Knocking over columns is actually useful and will be included in Mission 2.  It's about 3-5 secs. faster to make use of them (or one I should say) rather than going for the usual Bear Trap, regular arrows, and Mega Rock combo.  Looks better too.

I'm really going for the minimal amount of refresh time possible.  Normally I try to kill them with the initial trap set up and collect the bonus Ark from that.  If they survive, my traps normally charge in time to nail them as soon as they recover and finish the job.  Using disabling traps may look better and may even require more skill to set up but they usually don't make things go any faster unfortunately.

Cromarty

2011-07-01 11:01:57 pm

astral guard

I'd think you could use the chair if you're luring somebody up or down the stairs, since a push wall at the bottom would put them on it and they would have no way around it. Fitting an arrow and rock in beforehand would probably be difficult to time, though, and I don't know whether pushing a guy who's been knocked down will still activate the chair.

I was about to ask how you hit McLord with the rock after it explodes the box, but it occurs to me now that you could hit McLord first, as it should just flatten him without throwing him around.

I had this idea that disabling traps would figure into a longer combo somehow, but I can't imagine how to fit one together without being terribly inefficient. (Vases! Pfffffffff.) Nevermind, I guess.

mikwuyma

2011-07-02 12:17:51 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

You know what, Cromarty mentioned vases, and now I'm reminded of the lava vase, which does nice damage with low cooldown. Unfortunately, the vase stays on the enemy's head for a while, so I don't know if it's worth it.

Riskbreaker Y

2011-07-02 04:25:02 pm

berserker status

It shouldn't be difficult to have the right set up to use the volt chair. Using a Bear Trap---> Arrow--->(switch to push wall)--->Spike Rock (at the base of the stairs so that it rolls the guy over)----> Push Wall into volt chair. The only mission you can use it on is 5 because you start in that room but I have to see whether it's faster to do that or lure them into the room with the blue loon and disposing the two initial foes with the same setup. Just have to test what room to set traps in is fastest.

Yea, nailing McLord with the Spike Rock is super easy with the Push Wall (Bear Trap--->Spike Rock---> Push Wall into Spike Rock). That in turn triggers the crate so he dies quick. That mission is only like 20something secs. long.

The Lava Vase sounds worth investigating. It does pretty good damage with little charge time.

Ever since that guy Chevreetiquette took down his vids, I've been dying to know how he was able to max out the Ark counter using the bare minimum. It figures that now that I'm interested in the actual process he takes 'em down. I'm thinking that if you get ~65000 Ark early on just using basic, long combos it can be worth it in a run. Some vids on youtube have similar techniques and get some nice Ark payouts. What I've been trying to do in Mission 2 is just playing around with the Vase and the Flash Bomb in an attempt in recreating Chev's techs. If I can fatten up the combo, then finish with one of the pillars crashing down on Hawk I'd get a ton of Ark early on. It'd be interesting to see what I'd be able to do with that and whether expending the 2-3 mins. would be worth it in a speedrun. That's the question of the day. One thing for sure, he made it look way easier than it really is.

It shouldn't be difficult to have the right set up to use the volt chair.  Using a Bear Trap---> Arrow--->(switch to push wall)--->Spike Rock (at the base of the stairs so that it rolls the guy over)----> Push Wall into volt chair.  The only mission you can use it on is 5 because you start in that room but I have to see whether it's faster to do that or lure them into the room with the blue loon and disposing the two initial foes with the same setup.  Just have to test what room to set traps in is fastest.

Yea, nailing McLord with the Spike Rock is super easy with the Push Wall (Bear Trap--->Spike Rock---> Push Wall into Spike Rock).  That in turn triggers the crate so he dies quick.  That mission is only like 20something secs. long.

The Lava Vase sounds worth investigating.  It does pretty good damage with little charge time.

Ever since that guy Chevreetiquette took down his vids, I've been dying to know how he was able to max out the Ark counter using the bare minimum.  It figures that now that I'm interested in the actual process he takes 'em down.  I'm thinking that if you get ~65000 Ark early on just using basic, long combos it can be worth it in a run.  Some vids on youtube have similar techniques and get some nice Ark payouts.  What I've been trying to do in Mission 2 is just playing around with the Vase and the Flash Bomb in an attempt in recreating Chev's techs.  If I can fatten up the combo, then finish with one of the pillars crashing down on Hawk I'd get a ton of Ark early on.  It'd be interesting to see what I'd be able to do with that and whether expending the 2-3 mins. would be worth it in a speedrun.  That's the question of the day.  One thing for sure, he made it look way easier than it really is.

Riskbreaker Y

Edit history:

Riskbreaker Y: 2011-12-22 05:09:25 pm

2011-12-22 05:08:50 pm

berserker status

It's update time again. For now I'm just gonna work on the low% run for this as any% still requires extensive planning. A no trap upgrade run sounds boring at first but you'd be surprised at how creative you need to be in order to make best use of the initial arena traps. I already finished a preliminary segmented run.

All Clear @ 2:25:22

This time can be lowered by at least 10 mins. due to better execution and better planning in the later missions. I have every mission planned out except for the final mission which is easily the hardest. I also left the game idle a couple times for at least 5 or 10 mins. too so something close to 2 hrs. should be feasible. Some relevant notes:

* The bread n butter combo for low% is usually Arrow Slit--> Small Bomb--> Mega Rock. Small Bomb tosses enemies two blocks away into the Mega Rock and if there's an arena trap nearby I utilize Push Wall. Bear Trap works really well at the bottom of stairwells and even for the last boss. You'd be surprised at how much damage you can still cause without upgrading at all. Even the enemies with strong defenses like knights, shoguns, and the last boss are pushovers by simply stun looping them with the Arrow Slit and using the Bear Trap to hold em down for a Mega Rock setup. For Mission 25, in the lava room, it's also possible to use a Bear Trap, Push Wall, Mega Rock setup in front of the blinding pit for a loop that's fairly easy to pull off.

* Taking damage is huge considering getting Ark for perfect health is useless in a low% so this area plans itself really. This is especially useful for luring enemies into the blinding pit for example.

* Mega Rock usually hits once and disappears right away, but it's possible to hit multiple targets if they're positioned properly.

* It's faster to let some enemies escape like in Mission 16 at the Ruins but I have to do more research on whether this causes more enemies to appear in later missions.

Anyway, that's it for now I guess. For some reason the arena traps can be really inconsistent so something tells me this run is going to take me awhile to complete. But that's cool because it'll be a good measuring stick for an any% eventually considering i've discovered some pretty cool setups. I'll post my mission times as I record them and eventually will upload them to yt. The manor and castle areas shouldn't take too long.

It's update time again.  For now I'm just gonna work on the low% run for this as any% still requires extensive planning.  A no trap upgrade run sounds boring at first but you'd be surprised at how creative you need to be in order to make best use of the initial arena traps.  I already finished a preliminary segmented run.

All Clear @ 2:25:22

This time can be lowered by at least 10 mins. due to better execution and better planning in the later missions.  I have every mission planned out except for the final mission which is easily the hardest.  I also left the game idle a couple times for at least 5 or 10 mins. too so something close to 2 hrs. should be feasible.  Some relevant notes:

*  The bread n butter combo for low% is usually Arrow Slit-->  Small Bomb-->  Mega Rock.  Small Bomb tosses enemies two blocks away into the Mega Rock and if there's an arena trap nearby I utilize Push Wall.  Bear Trap works really well at the bottom of stairwells and even for the last boss.  You'd be surprised at how much damage you can still cause without upgrading at all.  Even the enemies with strong defenses like knights, shoguns, and the last boss are pushovers by simply stun looping them with the Arrow Slit and using the Bear Trap to hold em down for a Mega Rock setup.  For Mission 25, in the lava room, it's also possible to use a Bear Trap, Push Wall, Mega Rock setup in front of the blinding pit for a loop that's fairly easy to pull off.

*  Taking damage is huge considering getting Ark for perfect health is useless in a low% so this area plans itself really.  This is especially useful for luring enemies into the blinding pit for example.

*  Mega Rock usually hits once and disappears right away, but it's possible to hit multiple targets if they're positioned properly.

*  It's faster to let some enemies escape like in Mission 16 at the Ruins but I have to do more research on whether this causes more enemies to appear in later missions.

Anyway, that's it for now I guess.  For some reason the arena traps can be really inconsistent so something tells me this run is going to take me awhile to complete.  But that's cool because it'll be a good measuring stick for an any% eventually considering i've discovered some pretty cool setups.  I'll post my mission times as I record them and eventually will upload them to yt.  The manor and castle areas shouldn't take too long.

Jason2890

2024-04-22 04:50:22 pm

Quote from Riskbreaker Y:

It's update time again. For now I'm just gonna work on the low% run for this as any% still requires extensive planning. A no trap upgrade run sounds boring at first but you'd be surprised at how creative you need to be in order to make best use of the initial arena traps. I already finished a preliminary segmented run.

All Clear @ 2:25:22

This time can be lowered by at least 10 mins. due to better execution and better planning in the later missions. I have every mission planned out except for the final mission which is easily the hardest. I also left the game idle a couple times for at least 5 or 10 mins. too so something close to 2 hrs. should be feasible. Some relevant notes:

* The bread n butter combo for low% is usually Arrow Slit--> Small Bomb--> Mega Rock. Small Bomb tosses enemies two blocks away into the Mega Rock and if there's an arena trap nearby I utilize Push Wall. Bear Trap works really well at the bottom of stairwells and even for the last boss. You'd be surprised at how much damage you can still cause without upgrading at all. Even the enemies with strong defenses like knights, shoguns, and the last boss are pushovers by simply stun looping them with the Arrow Slit and using the Bear Trap to hold em down for a Mega Rock setup. For Mission 25, in the lava room, it's also possible to use a Bear Trap, Push Wall, Mega Rock setup in front of the blinding pit for a loop that's fairly easy to pull off.

* Taking damage is huge considering getting Ark for perfect health is useless in a low% so this area plans itself really. This is especially useful for luring enemies into the blinding pit for example.

* Mega Rock usually hits once and disappears right away, but it's possible to hit multiple targets if they're positioned properly.

* It's faster to let some enemies escape like in Mission 16 at the Ruins but I have to do more research on whether this causes more enemies to appear in later missions.

Anyway, that's it for now I guess. For some reason the arena traps can be really inconsistent so something tells me this run is going to take me awhile to complete. But that's cool because it'll be a good measuring stick for an any% eventually considering i've discovered some pretty cool setups. I'll post my mission times as I record them and eventually will upload them to yt. The manor and castle areas shouldn't take too long.

So, not sure if you're still working on optimizing this game (likely not since this is now over 12 years later!) but I started speedrunning this game a few weeks ago and did a google search to see if anyone else has been speedrunning this game before and found this thread!

So to give my progress, I have gotten a full game run (ending 2) down to a 1:25:38 RTA (1:28:23 IGT on the final post credits screen) which will be WR on the speedrun.com leaderboards for this game once it is verified.

I am feeling very confident about the general routing and most of the strategies for individual chapters, though I'm positive there's still plenty of room for more optimal strategies on the last 8 or so Chapters. I'm hoping to push the time down below 1:25:00 in the future and possibly eventually into the 1:23:xx range with current strategies. If anyone out here on this forum is still actively checking and has any suggestions on strategies that can be improved upon, I'm open for suggestions!

[quote="Riskbreaker Y"]It's update time again.  For now I'm just gonna work on the low% run for this as any% still requires extensive planning.  A no trap upgrade run sounds boring at first but you'd be surprised at how creative you need to be in order to make best use of the initial arena traps.  I already finished a preliminary segmented run.

All Clear @ 2:25:22

This time can be lowered by at least 10 mins. due to better execution and better planning in the later missions.  I have every mission planned out except for the final mission which is easily the hardest.  I also left the game idle a couple times for at least 5 or 10 mins. too so something close to 2 hrs. should be feasible.  Some relevant notes:

*  The bread n butter combo for low% is usually Arrow Slit-->  Small Bomb-->  Mega Rock.  Small Bomb tosses enemies two blocks away into the Mega Rock and if there's an arena trap nearby I utilize Push Wall.  Bear Trap works really well at the bottom of stairwells and even for the last boss.  You'd be surprised at how much damage you can still cause without upgrading at all.  Even the enemies with strong defenses like knights, shoguns, and the last boss are pushovers by simply stun looping them with the Arrow Slit and using the Bear Trap to hold em down for a Mega Rock setup.  For Mission 25, in the lava room, it's also possible to use a Bear Trap, Push Wall, Mega Rock setup in front of the blinding pit for a loop that's fairly easy to pull off.

*  Taking damage is huge considering getting Ark for perfect health is useless in a low% so this area plans itself really.  This is especially useful for luring enemies into the blinding pit for example.

*  Mega Rock usually hits once and disappears right away, but it's possible to hit multiple targets if they're positioned properly.

*  It's faster to let some enemies escape like in Mission 16 at the Ruins but I have to do more research on whether this causes more enemies to appear in later missions.

Anyway, that's it for now I guess.  For some reason the arena traps can be really inconsistent so something tells me this run is going to take me awhile to complete.  But that's cool because it'll be a good measuring stick for an any% eventually considering i've discovered some pretty cool setups.  I'll post my mission times as I record them and eventually will upload them to yt.  The manor and castle areas shouldn't take too long.[/quote]

So, not sure if you're still working on optimizing this game (likely not since this is now over 12 years later!) but I started speedrunning this game a few weeks ago and did a google search to see if anyone else has been speedrunning this game before and found this thread!

So to give my progress, I have gotten a full game run (ending 2) down to a 1:25:38 RTA (1:28:23 IGT on the final post credits screen) which will be WR on the speedrun.com leaderboards for this game once it is verified.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T2_98yhvB8

I am feeling very confident about the general routing and most of the strategies for individual chapters, though I'm positive there's still plenty of room for more optimal strategies on the last 8 or so Chapters.  I'm hoping to push the time down below 1:25:00 in the future and possibly eventually into the 1:23:xx range with current strategies.  If anyone out here on this forum is still actively checking and has any suggestions on strategies that can be improved upon, I'm open for suggestions!

Jason2890

2024-05-03 01:46:02 pm

Update: Got my time down to a 1:23:14 RTA with 1:26:00 IGT! Overall, really satisfied with how things played out. I figured out a new strategy that's useful on Chapters 10 and 12 which involves blinding yourself with Oil Vase in order to prevent dialogue from being initiated with Deadmoon (on Chapter 10) and Gunter (on Chapter 12). Also improved strategies on Chapter 21 ended up getting a lot of time down. I did make a few mistakes particularly in the late game, but overall this run was very solid.
The run could probably be pushed a little further, but I think I'm satisfied leaving it at 1:23:14 unless someone else comes up with something gamebreaking that'll save a substantial amount of time over the current strategies.