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Riskbreaker Y: 2011-01-31 02:37:59 pm
Riskbreaker Y: 2009-07-07 05:27:08 pm
berserker status
So lately i've been playing this game and i couldn't help but try to get through each mission as quickly as possible...of course, i put in "Astarte" as Millenia's name for the extra Ark at the beginning.  I don't know how this would affect the categorical definitions but it's faster to do this in order to get the buzz saw early for great combos (according to Shotgunnova's guide @ gamefaqs).

I'm not really recording anything right now b/c i still i have to re-record my Vagrant Story run on better quality DVD-R's, contact Mike, etc. but that's not holding me back from scouting for my next run.  I've been trying to convince a friend of mine to attempt a Red Dead Revolver new game run on my recorder but he seems reluctant if he decides to borrow it then great otherwise i'll start working on this run more.

So last night i got through the first five missions in the first castle area.  My current time now is:

*Chapter 6  Castle of Illusion @ 0:21 mins.  (not yet devised buzz saw but will after next mission)

*Killed Daar in Chapter 1 for Ark, plus it's faster

*Slash goes down hard with a Bear Claw, Fire Arrow (hits a second time after recharge i think...), and Spike Rock set up at the base of the stairs besides the pillar in Chapter 2.

*Hawk and Gastone go down in a similar set up in Chapter 3.

*I only kill McLord in the next chapter since it's faster and it allows me to face fewer enemies in the last chapter for this castle section.  McLord gets killed with a real nice set up i had in the room with the Volt Chair thing:  Bear Claw, Chain Needle (wall), Spike Rock (at the stairs) *switch Chain Needle after into Press Wall then-----> Volt Chair for a 8 hit combo i think, i'm not sure if they count the chair.  Sorry if that was hard to follow.

*Both hostile enemies in Chapter 5 go down in the usual 'stairwell combo' set up but i had to hunt down the last civilian in the other room cowering in the corner.

To be honest i'm not that great at this game even though i'm utilizing the castle traps to full effect and abusing stairwell combos as well (i've been killing most people in single sets of traps combos).  I'm just going through this game for fun while trying to find some basic strategies as it's been a very long time since i've played this game.  I don't think i ever beat it either, but that's not gonna hold me back from messing around.  This game's really not that difficult execution wise, it's just important to plan and set up your traps right obviously.  My time right now is def not optimal and i could maybe drop a few minutes from that time.  I doubt i'll post much in this thread until i at least get through the next set of chapters in the king's castle.
Thread title:  
My feelings on The Demon Rush

The extra ark is only 2000 or 4000, right? If so, I doubt it's worth making a separate category.

Honestly, I don't think big combos are the way to go (maybe one or two if you need money) because they take forever to setup and execute. It doesn't help that they generally use weak weapons to inflate the number of hits.

I'm pretty sure the best strategy is to abuse the stage traps and strong weapons like the rock. Also, you would have to take Shoguns into account because they have about 10 immunities. Sad

BTW, have you seen Cheveetiquette's youtube page? It's filled with ridiculous combos.
berserker status
Quote from mikwuyma:

The extra ark is only 2000 or 4000, right? If so, I doubt it's worth making a separate category.

Honestly, I don't think big combos are the way to go (maybe one or two if you need money) because they take forever to setup and execute. It doesn't help that they generally use weak weapons to inflate the number of hits.

I'm pretty sure the best strategy is to abuse the stage traps and strong weapons like the rock. Also, you would have to take Shoguns into account because they have about 10 immunities. Sad

BTW, have you seen Cheveetiquette's youtube page? It's filled with ridiculous combos.

The cheat code allows you to start with 2800 Ark according to gamefaqs.  I don't think it warrants another category either since it'll just be slower to beat the early levels and build up your arsenal.

I watched those videos from Cheveetiquette and they're pretty crazy.  nothing i'm doing is that elaborate, mostly set ups that involve arrows and the Spiked Rock as they do the most damage and are the most maneuverable set ups until i get this 'buzz saw' that's supposed to be good.  i haven't made it that far into the game because i don't know what shoguns are.  they don't sound very friendly.  while i'm here i may as well just give a short update.

Chapter 7 Deception @ 0:27 mins. w/ Hornstein killed.  Also got enough Ark for the Buzz Saw too.

*it seems as though the enemy placement here can change so it's best to have flexible strategies here

*even though at the Mission Complete screen i finished the chapter in 2:3X mins., the final time at the save screen pads on a lot of time.  i skip all the cut-scenes and it doesn't take long to save so i dunno what's up there.

*as far as further trap development goes, i'll try to minimize but i'll probably get stuff like Vase and other things that may be helpful.  i haven't been hit at all so far so i'm really racking up the Ark points so there's a whole lot of room for experimenting and different seems for now.  i'll stick to my big guns for the most part though.
My feelings on The Demon Rush
I won't spoil Shoguns for you, but they are big assholes and you will be forced to plan around them (you will see what I mean when you get to chapter 15/16 or so). Also, I've only beat the game with two endings, so I'm not the most qualified to make judgments (I should definitely replay the game though).
berserker status
Well, i'll probably update a little more often than i thought since i want to describe every few chapters in more detail and i have some more Ark to kill.  i'd say i'm using the Buzz Saw to its full potential since i kill most enemies in just one combo or two.

Current in-game time:  Chapter 10 Darkness Falls @ 43 mins.

*Chapter 7 (enemies victims presented in order)

*Aria comes in through the door in the room where i start first since i don't bite on the bait (Lecard); she goes down in a single  Bear Claw---> Buzz Saw--->Spiked Rock combo.

*Ricard falls victim to the same trap set up after it recharges and he comes through the door.  He dies.

*Legral also dies in the same single string of traps.  It's possible he can survive this combo though with a sliver of health.  it's best to just repeat it until he dies in the first try so that he doesn't go into his suicide bomber mode.

*Chapter 8

*I spawn in the room adjacent to the area with the pendulum, buzz-saw room trap, and stairwell i believe.  i run into the next room because Lordred and Delfina have the high ground initially and Delfina has long-range attacks.

*At the base of the stairwell i set up a Heavy Claw (upgraded)---> Fire Arrow---> Spiked Rock trap.  I kill Delfina with the string and damage Lordred since the Spiked Rock keeps rolling after coming down the stairs.

*I change the set up to accommodate Rolling Bomb (upgraded) since the Heavy Claw has some chance of working on Lordred (mostly not).  This time it didn't and he comes after me, i elude him him and lure him into a second Spiked Rock which kills him finally.  Maybe i can incorporate the Buzz Saw next time but this backup plan was relatively quick.

*Diva comes in after me in the same room and falls victim to the whole thing:  Heavy Claw---> Spiked Rock---> Rolling Bomb.  Needless to say he didn't survive the ordeal.

*Chapter 9

*I spawn in the throne room but go after Mucro (ninja) right away in the room with the statuette.

*At a block not exactly behind the statue i set up the usual Heavy Claw---> Buzz Saw---> Spiked Rock trap combo.  A few seconds after the claw sets itself, the ninja teleports behind the statue and gets snagged and dies a bloody mess.

*I run back to the room between the room with the ninja and the throne room and set up the combo at the door to my right when i come in.  This is for Claire who has now spawned near the entrance or something.

*Before Claire comes in, i run to the room next to where Goatbone spawns and set up the CSR combo (claw, saw, rock) mentioned earlier.  I set up the trap at the door through which he goes into the room initially so i have it ready for later.  He's making a dash for the Virgin Icon booby trapped with a bomb (game over if they touch it).  I turn around and return to Claire.

*I make it in time to position myself nicely for my exit by the time Claire comes through the door and falls victim to the set up i had ready before.  She dies in the single string.

*I run to the room with Virgin Icon to set up my usual CSR combo before Volcano can reach the door in this area.  Goatbone never approaches this room while i'll i'm in here because he's a coward.  Volcano sometimes dies in this one combo but sometimes he barely survives.  This time instead of doing a reset, i just set up a quick Heavy Claw trap one block in front of the wounded Volcano and finish him off.

*Like i said, Goatbone doesn't seem to chase me at all so i have to allow him to try to run back to the room where he spawns.  I have to keep my distance so that he doesn't try to defend himself with whatever he throws at you.  I kill him with the trap set up i had ready for him prior.  The Buzz Saw is really useful for putting your foes at the mercy of the Spiked Rock.  I run back to the room where i killed Claire to face Dorcas.

*I set up the last CSR trap combo at the door which leads to the room with the dead ninja.  Dorcas survives this combo because he has loads of health so i have to do a second chain.  One block in front of him, i place a Small Bomb trap and substitute the Buzz Saw with a Rolling Bomb.  Dorcas recovers and...

Small Bomb---> EXPLOSION---> Dorcas flies a couple blocks backward into---> Rolling Bomb

Even poor Dorcas can't survive this devastating combo.

So yea, that's my update for now.  this is just a practice run so like i said there's room for improvement here.  with that said, i have to say if i'm not killing the enemies as quickly as possible than it's just a matter of adjusting the trap placement and maybe changing tactics with certain chapters and shaving off minutes won't be too hard.  i will say that my trap combos have been highly effective/fast and i hope the later chapters won't be too hard.  Undecided

Edit:  i also have about 9000 Ark after this chapter.  it's probably faster to try and avoid developing traps but i do have to work toward more damaging ones probably.
Edit history:
Riskbreaker Y: 2009-07-09 12:58:51 am
berserker status
Sorry for the double post but i got some words to say.  I won't get into too many details anymore actually b/c almost everybody gets killed the same way but with different variations.  Here's some notes:

Chapter 16  The Ruins Defiled @ 1:19

This time's pretty decent IMO considering i'm setting up the traps as i go.  Well, i do rinse & repeat a lot of times but for someone who hasn't beaten this game hey...and i still haven't been hit once (in saved attempts).

*Just upgraded the Spiked Rock into Iron Ball on Chapter 15 but i could've done this long ago and possibly saved some time then.  I still have over 20000 Ark to spare but i doubt i'll be dipping into the fund yet since i haven't had to really.  That Buzz Saw...

*Assassins/Ninjas can become very easy to anticipate and if you set up your traps accordingly you can kill them before they even can approach you.  They tend to spawn behind things such as stairwells and ALWAYS spawn in the same place it seems.  Even assassins from different missions appear in the same place.

*Thieves/Villagers/Phantoms tend to run away from you but this problem can be bypassed in a couple of ways.  Each enemy varies b/c of placement and stuff but these are consistently quick ways to kill them.

1)  Make sure you remain near the entrance of the room where your target is.  The AI in this game is extremely poor and the target will either advance a couple steps and then freeze or just walk back and forth in place.  A stationary or predictable target is a dead one.  At the worst he'll just hang out by the door entrance with the door open.  I'm not sure if this is a bug or what.  (edit:  you can remain out of range in the hallways between the rooms, just look to see when your traps' colors go away and you'll know; then when your target is where you want them, emerge and proceed with the below)

2)  Proceed to set up/execute traps (actually this should come first probably to save some time).  Sometimes you can land a Heavy Claw---> Buzz Saw---> Spiked Rock combo.  Most of the time you have to settle for just using the Heavy Claw and Rolling Bomb or just the Rolling Bomb by itself.  If you did the trick right the door should be ajar for you and the bomb will keep rolling.  (edit:  i say most of the time b/c your foe can sometimes be caught in the area between both rooms so the Buzz Saw won't get past the door frame if it lands at all)

3)  If the character is already in the room then there's a chance he'll just freak out and freeze in place.  Just improvise and kill them quick. 

*it's important to exploit Barbalos' pattern of following his master in Chapter 14.  After Zartus dies you pretty much have Barbalos caught in a nice pattern and he's mincemeat.  This last confrontation should take place in the foyer otherwise it's slower and harder to kill both.

*I've been playing with the 'instant replays' of all the traps so there's a couple minutes to be shaved off from my time by simply turning this feature off.

Damn, well i didn't quite expect to make such fast progress.  Like i said before, my time is not optimal but i know with some effort and better planning i can cut off a few minutes from that time.  i'm not gonna wait around for my friend to come to his senses and decide to run Red Dead Revolver.  I will def be making some recorded attempts on this later this month hopefully.  This game is not that bad, difficulty wise.
My feelings on The Demon Rush
IIRC, you can actually make ninjas spawn in pit traps (there's one in one of the left rooms in the third castle with a bunch of green water IIRC) if you're right in front of the trap and facing away from it. Ninjas generally die instantly from the trap because they have crap vitality.
Edit history:
Riskbreaker Y: 2009-07-24 11:42:36 pm
berserker status
It's been awhile since i've posted because i haven't played this much lately.  Here's the progress i made this week:

*Chapter 21 @ 1:52; quite a few minutes can be shaved from this time w/ better luck & execution

*You're right Mike, the Shoguns are big assholes but i can say with confidence that i made them my bitches from now on.  I didn't have to alter my strategy at all:  Heavy Claw---> Buzz Saw---> Iron Ball FTW.  They break out of the claw most of the time (it's possible to land it clean, quite rare) but there's a split second of vulnerability where you can land the buzz saw and combo into the iron ball.  It took me three combos to fell him and i had to lure him into lava to finish him off; so yea i've taken damage finally.

*In Chapter 17 Keith either spawns at the entrance or at one of the adjacent rooms where you begin.  I got lucky and he spawned in the next room so i didn't have to run all the way to the entrance to make him leave.

*The Drone & Puppet are strong against the Buzz Saw and my usual combo.  So i had to upgrade my traps to make the Laser Arrows which pierce their armor.  It's fairly easy to avoid the Drones long range attacks by taking cover but the Puppet's eye laser attacks are unavoidable if you want to kill him fast.  I pretty much lured them in the proper range.  Vogues is a coward so he'll linger around the door as long as you don't face him.  I can't get the rolling bomb to land on him (obstructions prevent this) but i didn't try using cold claw---> rolling bomb so that actually may work next time.  I had to kill him blind using the Iron Ball by paying attention to the *flashing* on the menu and also listening for the door to open.

This is just a practice run so i'm fairly certain i can shave off whole minutes in the real thing through constant repetition, more experimenting, and better execution (luck doesn't hurt either).  The iron ball knocks enemies around and sometimes they land in the area traps that are already there.  I'll probably mess around with the timing of the last hit in my usual combo to see if there's any correlation between the timing and where the enemies land.  The first two castle areas in the game are fairly straightforward on how to kill the 'bad guys' but the last area has a lot of flexibility.

Also, how the hell do you run in this game?  I've tried a lot of button combinations but nothing works; i even looked around certain FAQS and found nothing.  I know you haven't played this game in awhile Mike but maybe you can tell me?  It hasn't affected my times at all honestly but it will certainly help.

Edit:  i haven't gotten that trick to work Mike but i haven't seen any real applications honestly.  I'll see if can make them spawn where i want in later chapters...also i should've probably upgraded to Laser Arrows earlier so that i could use them against the first shogun i encounter instead of the risky lava tactic.

second edit:  looks like my bread n' butter combo works on the Drone and Puppet.  it works the same way as the shogun (stun w/heavy claw---> buzz saw); i'll probably keep playing the data with the laser arrows though just to see if they come handy.  i might also get an electro rod but i dunno it depends on the enemies coming up and their weaknesses; if it's possible to finish the game with my bread n' butter combo then i'll stick to that unless i come up with a faster way...on second thought maybe it's best to stick with the laser arrows since i use the iron ball against the coward...need more testing...

P.S. i hope you got my PM regarding my speed run submission of Vagrant Story.  Grin
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Power-up double post!!!

So i finally finished this practice run and beat the game for the first time ever.  The storyline sucks ass but the gameplay is awesome!  Here's my final time and some final thoughts:

All Game Clear @ 2:45:56; this is in-game timer so no need to adjust although i've noticed that the game tacks on the time for the cutscenes even though they're skippable.  oh well.

*in a real run i hope to drop this time to 2:30:00 or even lower.  this can be possible with better execution, better luck, and better trap management (development and layout).  i'll most likely make this into 26 segments as every level can be pretty optimized and it the game counts the timer for the cutscenes anyway so may as well.

*the last two missions are fucking harrrrrd.  those goddamn Shoguns are possibly the greatest deal breakers in the game since if you fuck up they'll chase you down to an adjacent room for a reset.  also, the last mission is a lot trickier because of that healer...i have to find a way to take him out quickly before he heals others and slows down the process.  King Eclypse ain't shit so he won't be a problem.  it's just those stupid shoguns.  luckily nothing in this game is immune to my Cold Claw---> Buzz Saw---> Iron Ball chain with proper execution.

*As for as developing other traps, i have to test to see if the game counts the time spent at the menu screen before the chapters so that i can adjust my strategy accordingly.  Laser Arrows, Rolling Bomb, and the Iron Ball are must haves though and it doesn't take much time or Ark developing them (Buzz Saw leads to Laser Arrows and Rolling Bomb is accessible after Fire Arrow which is necessary for Buzz Saw; Iron Ball you just need Spike Rock, Vase, and Basin).  I'd like to develop Volt Rock but that depends if the game counts the time at the menu so i'll figure this out later.  I finish the game with over 50000 ARK so there's room here for developing other traps obviously.  I grab the last loon in the game but it turned out i didn't need it so i'll be finishing this game with very minimal damage or no damage at all.

*I unlocked the Fourth Ending; i'm not sure if my route was the quickest one but it sure seemed like it.  I let Leopold live i think and that's it (Chapter 17 i think) since it was faster.

So yea that's about it for now.  I'll start recording this run and upload it on youtube as soon as i re-record my Vagrant Story run and make space on my recorder.  I probably won't attempt the official run for a couple weeks probably cuz i want to relax and replay the game and own everybody with my traps hahahaah.  Eventually i'll do a New Game+ speed run of this game and kick some major ass; i'll unlock all four endings so that i can unlock the "Suezo" trap.  This run was pretty fun and not hard to pull off at all (compared to VS) so i'm really looking forward to destroying this personal fav of mine.  Since it isn't hard to do i'll probably work on other projects at the same time...maybe Paperboy (NES) or Double Dragon III because i want to do an NES run badly.

....i swear it seems like i'm only talking to Mike in this thread LOL.  it'll be fun finding verifiers for this one.  Undecided
Thanks RiskBreaker Y  Undecided

I own this in my collection unfortunatly its sealed. Now that I know its so good Ill have to pick up another copy to play. I've always wondered how they got Katherine Zeta Jones to pose for the cover.
berserker status
Quote from Zugzwang:
Thanks RiskBreaker Y  Undecided

I own this in my collection unfortunatly its sealed. Now that I know its so good Ill have to pick up another copy to play. I've always wondered how they got Katherine Zeta Jones to pose for the cover.

Well, like i said before, the storyline is utter bullcrap but the gameplay is freakin' great IMHO.  Some people may find it repetitive since certain traps are more effective than others but there's a lot of room for creativity.  Heck you don't have to kill your enemies, you can play with them for awhile if you really want to.  Katherine Zeta Jones???  I had no idea.  I just bought the game by itself w/o the case or booklet. 

Since i'm here already i'll give a few updates on this since i started over and tested out some more stuff.  People on gamefaqs say that you can replay through the game with the traps that you've unlocked but this is not true.  I don't know where they got this impression but they resetted all my traps AND i had to save up ARK to buy the Evil Kick (WTF?!) so i dunno about the new game + idea anymore but we'll see. 

I got to Chapter 10 Darkness Falls @ 34 mins. so i'm already 9 mins. ahead of my practice run.  This is a MASSIVE improvement considering most of the time lost was in the final two chapters.  At this rate i am very confident that i can get this below 2:30:00 w/ constant repetition and some creative trap set ups.  I'm employing riskier strategies and abusing area traps a lot more this time around.  I can't wait to put up videos of my sadistic run!  Cheesy

Glad to hear you're interested in the game Zugz, you won't regret buying it...just don't get upset if you don't like it.  Wink
berserker status
Alright, i got a short update on my second practice run.

Chapter 16 Ruins Defiled @ 1:05

This time is 14 mins. ahead of my practice run so now the official run will clock in at sub 2:30:00 for sure.  It's just a matter of how low i can get the run, there's an outside chance i may finish with exactly 2:00:00.  That'll be tough to achieve but may be possible. 

Just to let you know, i've developed the Iron Ball and Laser Arrows already and have put them to good use.  In this practice run i'll probably develop Judgment and the Volt Rock and see how that goes.  I'm starting to believe that the game doesn't count the time you spend in the menu where you choose your traps and develop them.  I dunno if that'll be a problem with timing the run but to me it seem fair to ignore that and just go by the end-game timer.

god i feel guilty killing some of the villagers in this game but fuck it.  it's all about the end time.  i may allow Keith to wail on me in the later chapters so that i can unlock a different ending so the final time may not reflect a real balls out effort.  still, i feel like i'm really optimizing everything in this playthrough though.
Waiting hurts my soul...
you can test it by leaving it on in that menu for a couple of hours.
My feelings on The Demon Rush
Quote from RiskBreaker Y:
I'm starting to believe that the game doesn't count the time you spend in the menu where you choose your traps and develop them.  I dunno if that'll be a problem with timing the run but to me it seem fair to ignore that and just go by the end-game timer.

I don't see why it would be a problem.
berserker status
Quote from mikwuyma:
I don't see why it would be a problem.

It makes no difference since the game DOES count the time spent on the menu screen.  oh well.  it just means i'll have to be more efficient navigating the menu screen and test out a few more traps i could develop.  alright, onto another update.

Chapter 21, 2 Wrongs=1 Right @ 1:29

wow, i'm really kicking ass at this point.  i'm 23 mins.(!) ahead of my practice run...!!!  And i still feel like i could cut this down another 3-5 mins. with better luck and execution.  Laser Arrows are my best friends! 

I've tested out developing Judgment but it doesn't seem particularly useful.  I tried using it against the first Shogun (he's weak to it) but it didn't really help much at all.  i did the same segment over without Judgment and i actually completed it 4 secs. faster.  Right now i'm leaning toward not developing any more traps because to develop Judgment and the Volt Rock i have to develop a bunch of other traps and now that i know the game counts the time associated with that...well, let's say i'd have to save at least a couple minutes with Judgment and the Volt Rock in order for them to be useful.  i'll develop them for the segments where they may be useful.  if anything the Volt Rock may be the most useful since it deals massive damage.  if the final two chapters go my way there may be a real possibility of getting a 2:00:00 end-game time.

i think i may start practicing doing a Paperboy (NES) run pretty soon since i feel i've optimized my route for Kagero very well.  i already know a few subtle things for Paperboy which will help but i won't elaborate until later.
berserker status
Alright, i've completed my second practice run and i have to say i'm fairly pleased with the end result.

All Game Clear @ 2:14:09

I'm pretty sure i could get this sub 2:10:00 in an official run but it'll be pretty hard to get 2:00:00 or below. 

i never wound up using developing Judgment or Volt Rock for the last mission so the volt rock could've been handy but i'm not sure.  I'm too tired to test it out right now and i could always do this later.  This would be the only mission where it would be useful it seems like since i got this whole thing down for the most part.  The last mission is easily the longest and most difficult.  It took me 16 mins. of in-game time for me to complete it and this is with a fairly good strategy.  i'll probably start posting some WIP's next week.
berserker status
Yesss, going for the record:  triple post!

Anyway, i guess i should start editing my future updates with this post or something even though i think it'd look cluttered. 

Here's some segments i made this past week:

Part 1  (segments 1-3; Chapters 1-4)

Part 2  (segments 4-5; Chapter 5-6)

Part 3 (segment 6; Chapter 7)

Part 4 (segment 7-8; Chapter 8-9)

*From what i could tell and if everything were to go my way, i'd say a reasonable 5-15 secs. can be shaved from this time.  Most of the time could be saved with Chapter 9 since there were some mistakes and it's possible to kill Goatbone sooner.  killing him sooner would require going into the menu at least a couple times to properly time trap preparation and his position and of course some luck.

*I start abusing the Buzzsaw in part 3

*Although it wasn't recorded, i turned off the instant replay to save valuable seconds.  i didn't feel it was necessary to go into the options over and over again if the first two segments didn't go my way.  so i just kept attempting these first two with the instant replay already off.

i'll probably get to the Timenoid Ruins before posting more segments.  this game has a great soundtrack!  it gives me whiplash..!  Tongue

oh yea, i should also mention that i'm 8 mins. ahead of my second practice run.

Chapter 10 Darkness Falls @ 26 mins.

At this rate, sub 2:00:00 may not be unrealistic.
berserker status
Alright, it's been awhile since my last update.  I've been working on this on and off over the last month but have been too lazy to upload any segments.  Well, I've made it to the ruins so far.

Chapter 16:  The Ruins Defiled @ 53 mins.

Part 5  (Chapters 10 & 11)

Part 6 (Chapters 12 & 13)

Part 7 (Chapters 14 & 15)

I'm a little lazy to go into details but i'll just sum up the parts i didn't like.  Deadmoon could've gone  ten seconds faster, i set up traps i never really use, i mess up with menu navigation/trap layouts, and otherwise it could've been tighter in some parts.  I feel like i'm not pushing for the best luck possible even though i'm getting the fastest times so far.  For that reason, i'll probably redo the entire run when i'm done since i feel i could shave off a minute with more dedication.  Each segment isn't hard at all, it's just tedious getting all the little things right and not messing up with the menu navigation.  I'll probably experiment with more traps too since now i know Blast Bomb is hella useful in certain situations.  This leaves me wondering what else i'm yea.  That's it.  I get great luck in some segments but it's nothing i can't do again with some more work.
Edit history:
Riskbreaker Y: 2011-01-31 03:10:56 pm
Riskbreaker Y: 2011-01-31 03:10:00 pm
berserker status
Lately, I've been playing around with this game again and found some more useful strategies for speedrunning.  I don't need the "Astarte" code anymore to do what I need to do and have enough Ark to develop traps.  The only problem is that it seems like there's still a lot more to experiment with in terms of trap selection and execution.  For that reason the segmented run probably won't materialize for awhile as I have other runs I'm working on and I'm not going to dedicate that kind of time to make sure the run is optimized for now.  Even though Vagrant Story (NG+ & SS) will get priority, I will probably get a SS of this game done afterward as that kind of category allows for some leniency toward planning and really isn't that hard to pull off in practice:  I got one done on my 3rd try in a casual run.  There were at least 5 mins. worth of errors due to being distracted by people, saving twice, and making really dumb mistakes on my part.

All Clear SS @ 2:23:02

So clearly a mediocre run should avg. less than 2:20:00.  I'll probably play for sub 2:15:00 and then shoot for sub 2:10:00 and go from there in deciding to submit.  I had some really bad luck and mistakes but there were missions that went very well and I was improvising my setups effectively, good enough that some can be included in a segmented run probably.  I made a flowchart with all the traps I need for the entire run so I'm not slowed down by the menu navigation.  Here are the traps I used in the order in which I developed them (besides initial traps):

*  Spike Rock, Heavy Claw, & Fire Arrow
*  Cold Claw
*  Spiked Wall
*  Buzz Saw
*  Laser Arrows
*  Hell Fire

Notice I didn't include every trap I developed but only listed the ones I used in actual gameplay.  I had a surplus of Ark toward the end but didn't find it necessary to upgrade anything.  Iron Ball adds some extra damage but it launches your foes so I don't think introducing that random element in a SS is necessary considering the additional damage is trivial compared to the risk.  Other than that I saved at Chapter 16 The Ruins Defiled and before the last chapter but the former time was recorded at 1:02:00 so there's definitely fat to trim off the latter half of the run that's for sure.  I also only saved to check my progress, I never died although I came close a couple times.  Yocal definitely had me running for my life though because I botched the setup terribly.
berserker status
So I got a better time recently.

All Clear SS @ 2:13:52

This time there weren't any really dumb mistakes nor was I distracted by anyone.  Still, most of the time lost comes from not killing your foe in the room in which you find them 'initially'.  Meaning, they recover after my trap set up and then I have to run around and go into the menu to set something else up.  This consumes a surprising amount of time.  That's why I'm going to draw out all 3 areas on graph paper and mark my start points as well as my enemies' besides planning out my trap layout better.  It's really important to really minimize the menu navigation and know what to do right away at the start of the mission because once something goes wrong then it really throws everything off and that first mistake snowballs into a shitstorm.  My trap selection was basically the same so unless there's other traps that are just as reliable as well as damaging then I'm going to stick with my plan of attack.  I think a sub 2:10:00 would be good but I still don't know how low it could go.  It'd be nice to get sub 2 hrs. but I don't know how feasible that is in a SS.
Edit history:
Riskbreaker Y: 2011-06-21 01:55:53 pm
berserker status
It's time to update this thread with some new strats.  I've been really playing around with this game more lately to see what are the best traps to use for a segmented run.  Cromarty mentioned that I should mess with Judgment a lot more and compare it with the Hell Fire route.  Well, I can confirm that he's right, the Judgment route really does come in handy in many ways.  I'll just list some notes and then give a time I got for a segmented run.

*  Judgment requires one less trap to develop then Hell Fire so that's better already.  But since I have this trap already, I go ahead and create Volt Rock which only required Vase, Basin, and Iron Ball from there to develop.  Volt Rock is the most damaging trap you can unlock on New Game playthroughs so it comes really handy (25 dmg points more than Spike Rock and 20 dmg points more than Iron Ball).  With this route I actually go through more trap development animations but it seems like unlocking Volt Rock will save more time anyway.

*  Thunder Volt requires only Flash Bomb and Spark Rod to unlock and is already under the same tree as Judgment.  It causes 65 dmg. and provides a ground-based trap I can work with earlier, saving time. 

*  Mike, you kept telling me about that blinding pit in the lava room in the Ruins area.  I can finally say I've experimented with it and it will definitely save time.  Plus, it's entertaining luring the ninjas in there.

*  Judgment/Thunder Volt have the ability to create electric currents in straight lines that connect to another voltage source (i.e. the room in the Ruins with that electric wall).  In addition to this, it does the same thing with other electric-based traps.  This means I can hit them with Judgment/Thunder Volt with Laser Arrows for double the damage.  This requires precise timing but can be extremely useful.

*  The Hell Fire route is probably more useful for a SS run because the Judgment route requires constant resetting to get the set-ups to work correctly.  Hell Fire is more practical even though Judgment is a little more flexible with creativity.

*  Completed time using Judgment route is 1:55:44.  This can drop down five minutes maybe with more efficiency and patience.  By the end of the game I just had to settle for less than optimal set-ups because I was getting tired of resetting.  The last two missions are TOUGH with Judgment but a lot faster I think.  There's just a lot less room for error.

I'll probably play with the game some more to see what other strats I can come up with but the route is starting to look solid. 

Edit:  The Hell Fire route resulted in a 2:02:00 time, btw.
My feelings on The Demon Rush
Yeaaaaaaaaa blind pit antics. Cheesy
astral guard
I dunno, judgment is pretty easy to land if you start with volt magnet. Tongue  I imagine it's the same if your victim is on the electrified wall.

What kind of setups are you using with hellfire?  My first thought was of using it to throw people into position for other traps, as I did with land mines before getting spring floor, but that never worked as well as I wanted.  That could just be a problem with trying to get people to run over an active mine in the middle of the room by standing on the opposite side, though.  Stupid castle throne room..  Does it work well in rooms where you can put uneven terrain between you and enemies so they follow whatever predetermined path rather than aiming straight for you?
(I get the feeling I asked this before on irc, but I can't remember for sure..)

Also, are you using that exploding box in the castle?  I know I set it off every chance I had, but I didn't usually have a very strong wall trap until the ruins.  There's also the ceiling fan in the entry hall - I'm pretty sure the blue fighter that's supposed to be distracting you who initially just stands around begins directly under it or close enough that you can shove her straight into it with a lift floor.  I forget whether that was enough to kill her the time I tried it.
I may have to play through this again and just fiddle around throwing people into fixed traps with spring floors.  I have no idea how effective most of them are.
Edit history:
Riskbreaker Y: 2011-06-25 01:46:44 pm
Riskbreaker Y: 2011-06-25 01:46:10 pm
berserker status
The thing is, Volt Magnet probably causes comparable damage to a Buzz Saw and much less than Laser Arrows.  It's trickier landing the Judgment (due to more precision required and sometimes buggy collision), but it's not a big deal in a segmented run where you can reset to your heart's content and each mission is a segment pretty much.

With Hellfire, I tend to use it at the end of combos.  For example, in that electric wall room, I start with the Buzz Saw, they take damage from the wall, drop a Spike Rock/Iron Ball, then finish with the Hell Fire.  It's rare for anyone to survive that setup.  I also use it for groups of enemies as well sometimes (like when one foe is following another foe's path for example).  Another setup involves using Laser Arrows then Spike Rock followed by Hell Fire.  The timing for the ceiling trap is tricky but it can be done for damaging results.  I can't really remember using it to toss people into other traps.  I'm actually considering doing two segmented runs using Hell Fire and Jugment and seeing what's faster.  It may be a toss up but I'm leaning toward Judgment for now.  I can pretty much get the enemies to follow any predetermined path I want, especially with spawn manipulation.

Yes, the exploding box in the first manor area as well as the one in the castle will be used.  Not very much but they definitely are useful.  You can either set them off with either a Spike Rock followed by a Push Wall (for some reason the Mega Rock doesn't cause it to blow) or using a Spike Wall straight up.  I've also played around with that ceiling fan in the entry hall; it doesn't kill her with the lift/rising floor but it probably would if you used something else too.  In that particular mission you have to go back into that room to finish off the last two guys so I have to utilize a setup I can use for both, minimizing the menu navigation I have to do (the source of frustration in this run besides the resets).

The problem with using Spring Floors and other intermediary traps is that they don't cause much damage and I honestly doubt they'd save any time compared to just using Thunder Volt/Blast Bomb and going for pure damage.  The other thing too is that if you go for that then it's best to go through the Judgment route considering it's under the same trap tree I believe (could be wrong).  There's still quite a bit of experimenting to go before I really sit down and do the run.

astral guard
Yeah, I don't think any other wall trap can compare to laser arrow for damage, except maybe chain needle, but that does pretty poorly against more resilient enemies.

Hellfire as a finisher makes sense.  I wonder though, can you throw people into the electrified wall with it?  I'm picturing hellfire->volt wall->laser arrow->rock, but I don't know if you can actually shoot a guy who's on the wall like that, either.

I replayed a few of the early missions - you can set off the boxes with just a push wall, so any wall should do it, I guess.  If you can fit it into a combo, putting people on the electric chair (pushing them rather than throwing them) hits twice for quite a bit.  Knocking columns over does a lot, but they're in weird places so I'm not sure whether it's worth the effort.  Haven't played with any new stuff in the castle yet.
Too bad about the ceiling fan.  I'd think that kind of treatment would be fatal.

Disabling traps aren't much for damage, but you can potentially buy enough time for your other traps to refresh and finish the job.  A well-placed spring floor can occupy one enemy basically forever.
Also, you could crush a guy with a giant rock and then roll it back with spring floor/some kind of wall to crush him again, maybe.