Jill of the Jungle (old dos game)

2009-11-18 10:08:22 am

Procrastination Nation!

I'm thinking of running the old game jill of the jungle, single segment with deaths as there are places with death abuse.

I have some questions:

1) Is DosBox okay or not because it's an emulator? If I can't use DosBox, i'll have to wait till I get home and run on an old windows machine.

2) Either way, what is a good way to record? I tried using DosBox's recording feature but it doesn't seem to work properly. i have no idea how I'd record an old Dos game on an old windows machine as well.

3) Also, the 1st game is shareware, while the full version isn't. Would I have to run the full version or can I just run the shareware episode?

Thanks.

Thread title:

Lag.Com

2009-11-18 10:47:42 am

sda loyalist

1) Not okay.
2) Video out from your video card or something like that.
3) Well, the episodes are seperate, right? Each episode would be a different run.

StrangenessDSS

2009-11-18 12:18:24 pm

Sleeping Terror

I have fond memories of this game - it was the first significant video game I beat. I remember one glitch that would be useful in a speedrun: if you hold the jump button you can jump in midair at the start of the Knight's Puzzle, saving a few seconds.

My favorite glitch was being able to take control during the ending sequence, and jump around on those pretty purple mushrooms, but that one isn't quite as useful.

Sorcerer88

2009-11-19 09:20:55 am

I have no solution, but i admire the problem.

yeah i also remember this game.. i must have been about 7 when i played it ^^ would love to see a run, even if it's a non-accepted Dosbox run.

Phoenix3568

2009-11-19 04:46:48 pm

Procrastination Nation!

I'll probably just do it as a casual run then, as I can't do it on a DoS computer.

EDIT- I noticed that as well. It doesn't save too much time because the gaurd you need to get past's switch is behind the elevator. Maybe with death abuse it becomes faster.

Lag.Com

2009-11-20 03:26:57 am

sda loyalist

Hey, I'm looking forward to it whether it's on SDA or not. I'll link to it from linkhome of course.

Phoenix3568

2009-11-21 01:14:24 pm

Procrastination Nation!

My basic plan of this run is levels 1,2,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13(end). Level 3 is really long and can be skipped, as it is only needed for bonus. If I did a 100% run I'd hit level 3 and the bonus level, but it isn't necessary. Also it counts as 3 and 4, I'm assuming bonus level counts as 5.

Level 2 you can jump past the two pits in a row if you jump at the last moment.

Level 6 (puzzle) you don't need to the the 4th key. If you miss the trigger for the 2nd wall thing you can skip it and save considerable time.

Level 7(I think it's seven, might be 5) in the Forest zone it's faster to kill yourself once you get the jumping power.

Level 9(phoenix maze) it's faster to kill yourself when you get the last key

Level 10(knight maze) jumping and hitting the right switch saves a bunch of time. If you die on this level you have to restart from the beginning.

Level 12?(fish maze) The gems/keys/whatever you need to clear the path is super long, so killing yourself as Jill after you get the gems is faster for the fish bit.

Think that's it. If anyone wants to play it (it IS shareware) you can download it at:
http://www.dosgamesonline.com/index/game/94/Jill_of_the_Jungle.html

OR you can play it online at:
http://www.classicdosgames.com/online/$jill.html

Enjoy!

My basic plan of this run is levels 1,2,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13(end).  Level 3 is really long and can be skipped, as it is only needed for bonus.  If I did a 100% run I'd hit level 3 and the bonus level, but it isn't necessary.  Also it counts as 3 and 4, I'm assuming bonus level counts as 5.

Level 2 you can jump past the two pits in a row if you jump at the last moment.

Level 6 (puzzle) you don't need to the the 4th key.  If you miss the trigger for the 2nd wall thing you can skip it and save considerable time.

Level 7(I think it's seven, might be 5) in the Forest zone it's faster to kill yourself once you get the jumping power.

Level 9(phoenix maze) it's faster to kill yourself when you get the last key

Level 10(knight maze) jumping and hitting the right switch saves a bunch of time.  If you die on this level you have to restart from the beginning.

Level 12?(fish maze) The gems/keys/whatever you need to clear the path is super long, so killing yourself as Jill after you get the gems is faster for the fish bit.

Think that's it.  If anyone wants to play it (it IS shareware) you can download it at:
http://www.dosgamesonline.com/index/game/94/Jill_of_the_Jungle.html

OR you can play it online at:
http://www.classicdosgames.com/online/$jill.html

Enjoy!

Phoenix3568

Edit history:

Phoenix3568: 2009-11-23 05:46:48 pm

2009-11-23 03:31:07 pm

Procrastination Nation!

I got a decent practice dosbox run finished. I'll post it on Youtube when I get it shrunk down and edited and all that. Total run time is about 10:30 minutes + a bit, add about a minute so for the ending.

There are some pretty major platforming errors. Those will be fixed in a real run. I think a 9:30 run is possible. I abuse deaths pretty horribly.

The sound desyncs pretty badly as well, though that's probably due to dosbox or fraps.

I don't know when i'll be able to make an actual run of this as I'm pretty busy and have no access to an old DOS computer. Also the run would look a little different as some of the "message" apples in the game are different than this shareware version.

video 1 here:

cortez

2009-11-24 04:35:12 am

Stalker!

looks pretty good so far

StrangenessDSS

Edit history:

StrangenessDSS: 2010-06-08 05:54:08 am

2010-06-08 04:09:50 am

Sleeping Terror

No activity? Well! I think I'll try working on this while I procrastinate on getting a working capture card again. The game runs fine in XP with VDMSound, so there shouldn't be any problems recording it. (Sadly, the second and third games do not run properly, and I can't figure out any way to make them do so.)

To make things more interesting, I plan to do a 100% run. From my initial tests, the hut (levels 3-5) is the hardest part of the game to speedrun, so where's the fun in leaving it out?

Levels 1 and 2 I have down pretty well, though I still need to do more precise testing as to which path through the first part of level 1 is fastest.

I'll probably be doing levels 3-5 after that even though I think it'd be slightly faster to do them after 6-7, just because they're SO HARD. Three levels in a row with no health refills in between, plus annoying-to-avoid (and often invincible) enemies, plus randomly-timed flamethrowers? Aaargh! (The flamethrowers do always fire in the same pattern, but when the pattern starts seems to be random, oddly enough - I repeatedly loaded a save immediately before the level, and I'd usually make it past the first line of flamethrowers without getting hit and without having to wait, but sometimes I'd run smack into one or two flames.) Also I have rather vivid memories from my youth of one of the flamethrowers being buggy and tending to outright kill me and/or damage me when it's not firing. That'll be fun!

I think 7 before 6 is slightly faster than the other way around, so that's what I'll do if I don't change my mind. 7 allows deathwarping, as Phoenix pointed out, and is pretty simple. 6 is also pretty simple, though I'm not entirely sure which one out of the "tricky" key or the furthest-right key takes more time to get - I'll have to check that once I get recording set up.

The bonus level is trivial to complete, and not very hard to reach.

Arg's Dungeon shouldn't be hard. I have a path through the elevator part that I'm pretty sure is faster than what's shown in Phoenix's test run. Phoenix Maze, also easy, though again I need to test which of the two furthest keys is actually slower so I know where to deathwarp. The first part of the Knight's Puzzle is easy; the second part is somewhat trickier and I haven't worked out a precise path through it yet.

Eleven was the hardest level by far when I was a kid, but it's not so hard to speedrun. I have a path that's pretty fast (possibly about the fastest, though more testing would be required to be sure) and doesn't put me in danger of dying.

Twelve is somewhat tricky. I'm not sure if suiciding after the first Jill-gem is faster or not; one more thing to test. Suiciding after the last is certainly desirable, as is suiciding after the last fish-gem. That last bit is a bit tricky, since there's no convenient instant-death stuff around; trying to get killed by the last enemies immediately after picking up the gem could go wrong in any number of highly amusing and run-ending ways, as long as that number is roughly 3.

Thirteen is easy.

In level 14, if you are playing on a CGA (4-color) monitor, most of the enemies are the same color as the background (except for their one-pixel eyes) and it's really hard to beat (if you have never played video games before). Fortunately, with the advance of technology, and no longer being a child, I can afford a better monitor these days. It shouldn't be hard, though I do have to be careful with my health, as I plan to jump through several flaming birds at once.

Fifteen and sixteen ought to be easy, as they are the ending sequence and the only way to screw them up is to press sideways during that small time between when the "demo" playback ends and the ending trigger is hit. With practice I should be able to avoid doing this reliably. Alternately, I could go ahead and screw up the ending because hey! It's the ending, timing finished at the end of level 14!

Seventeen, and all the other not-previously-mentioned levels, do not exist. I will not be running them, as nonexistant levels are not required to be completed even in a 100%.

No activity? Well! I think I'll try working on this while I procrastinate on getting a working capture card again. The game runs fine in XP with VDMSound, so there shouldn't be any problems recording it. (Sadly, the second and third games do not run properly, and I can't figure out any way to make them do so.)

To make things more interesting, I plan to do a 100% run. From my initial tests, the hut (levels 3-5) is the hardest part of the game to speedrun, so where's the fun in leaving it out?

Levels 1 and 2 I have down pretty well, though I still need to do more precise testing as to which path through the first part of level 1 is fastest.

I'll probably be doing levels 3-5 after that even though I think it'd be slightly faster to do them after 6-7, just because they're SO HARD. Three levels in a row with no health refills in between, plus annoying-to-avoid (and often invincible) enemies, plus randomly-timed flamethrowers? Aaargh! (The flamethrowers do always fire in the same pattern, but when the pattern starts seems to be random, oddly enough - I repeatedly loaded a save immediately before the level, and I'd usually make it past the first line of flamethrowers without getting hit and without having to wait, but sometimes I'd run smack into one or two flames.) Also I have rather vivid memories from my youth of one of the flamethrowers being buggy and tending to outright kill me and/or damage me when it's not firing. That'll be fun!

I think 7 before 6 is slightly faster than the other way around, so that's what I'll do if I don't change my mind. 7 allows deathwarping, as Phoenix pointed out, and is pretty simple. 6 is also pretty simple, though I'm not entirely sure which one out of the "tricky" key or the furthest-right key takes more time to get - I'll have to check that once I get recording set up.

The bonus level is trivial to complete, and not very hard to reach.

Arg's Dungeon shouldn't be hard. I have a path through the elevator part that I'm pretty sure is faster than what's shown in Phoenix's test run. Phoenix Maze, also easy, though again I need to test which of the two furthest keys is actually slower so I know where to deathwarp. The first part of the Knight's Puzzle is easy; the second part is somewhat trickier and I haven't worked out a precise path through it yet.

Eleven was the hardest level by far when I was a kid, but it's not so hard to speedrun. I have a path that's pretty fast (possibly about the fastest, though more testing would be required to be sure) and doesn't put me in danger of dying.

Twelve is somewhat tricky. I'm not sure if suiciding after the first Jill-gem is faster or not; one more thing to test. Suiciding after the last is certainly desirable, as is suiciding after the last fish-gem. That last bit is a bit tricky, since there's no convenient instant-death stuff around; trying to get killed by the last enemies immediately after picking up the gem could go wrong in any number of highly amusing and run-ending ways, as long as that number is roughly 3.

Thirteen is easy.

In level 14, if you are playing on a CGA (4-color) monitor, most of the enemies are the same color as the background (except for their one-pixel eyes) and it's really hard to beat (if you have never played video games before). Fortunately, with the advance of technology, and no longer being a child, I can afford a better monitor these days. It shouldn't be hard, though I do have to be careful with my health, as I plan to jump through [i]several[/i] flaming birds at once.

Fifteen and sixteen ought to be easy, as they are the ending sequence and the only way to screw them up is to press sideways during that small time between when the "demo" playback ends and the ending trigger is hit. With practice I should be able to avoid doing this reliably. Alternately, I could go ahead and screw up the ending because hey! It's the ending, timing finished at the end of level 14!

Seventeen, and all the other not-previously-mentioned levels, do not exist. I will not be running them, as nonexistant levels are not required to be completed even in a 100%.

Phoenix3568

2010-06-13 06:14:16 pm

Procrastination Nation!

Yes, being sick, worrying about life, and not having a Windows 95/98 computer are all reasons why the any% run is not completed. Hopefully I can help.

Quote from StrangenessDSS:

No activity? Well! I think I'll try working on this while I procrastinate on getting a working capture card again. The game runs fine in XP with VDMSound, so there shouldn't be any problems recording it. (Sadly, the second and third games do not run properly, and I can't figure out any way to make them do so.)

To make things more interesting, I plan to do a 100% run. From my initial tests, the hut (levels 3-5) is the hardest part of the game to speedrun, so where's the fun in leaving it out?

Because, as you mentioned, they are very infuriating.

Quote:

Levels 1 and 2 I have down pretty well, though I still need to do more precise testing as to which path through the first part of level 1 is fastest.

I'm pretty sure the non apple jump route is faster. Also at the beginning you can kill both the corcodile and the bird in one shot, which I failed to do in my test run.

Quote:

I'll probably be doing levels 3-5 after that even though I think it'd be slightly faster to do them after 6-7, just because they're SO HARD. Three levels in a row with no health refills in between, plus annoying-to-avoid (and often invincible) enemies, plus randomly-timed flamethrowers? Aaargh! (The flamethrowers do always fire in the same pattern, but when the pattern starts seems to be random, oddly enough - I repeatedly loaded a save immediately before the level, and I'd usually make it past the first line of flamethrowers without getting hit and without having to wait, but sometimes I'd run smack into one or two flames.) Also I have rather vivid memories from my youth of one of the flamethrowers being buggy and tending to outright kill me and/or damage me when it's not firing. That'll be fun!

Yes that "random flamethrower" bug is still in there... Make sure you have about 4-5 dots of health around then other wise you will die, because there is a ball that comes down when you cross that area as well.

Quote:

I think 7 before 6 is slightly faster than the other way around, so that's what I'll do if I don't change my mind. 7 allows deathwarping, as Phoenix pointed out, and is pretty simple. 6 is also pretty simple, though I'm not entirely sure which one out of the "tricky" key or the furthest-right key takes more time to get - I'll have to check that once I get recording set up.

I don't think there is a difference. You still have to travel from one to other other so you're essentially traveling the same difference. Also I think that level 7 is actually closer to the gate, or at least you can reach it faster.

Quote:

The bonus level is trivial to complete, and not very hard to reach.

Arg's Dungeon shouldn't be hard. I have a path through the elevator part that I'm pretty sure is faster than what's shown in Phoenix's test run. Phoenix Maze, also easy, though again I need to test which of the two furthest keys is actually slower so I know where to deathwarp. The first part of the Knight's Puzzle is easy; the second part is somewhat trickier and I haven't worked out a precise path through it yet.

you could try death warping in ARG's as well but I don't know how effective it would be. Also I think my way is the fastest since you get on the arrow I was on and then you should be able to get the right elevator in two shots + 1 jump shot since you need to clear the blocks anyways.

I think the key through the block maze (farthest right) takes the longest time, probably best to die after that one. It might be possible to "death grab" the key, by which I mean die but your dying hitbox picks up the key, allowing you to have all the keys. I don't know if it works there though.

Knight's Puzzle is super easy except the end, I agree. I messed that part up badly in my 'run'.

Quote:

Eleven was the hardest level by far when I was a kid, but it's not so hard to speedrun. I have a path that's pretty fast (possibly about the fastest, though more testing would be required to be sure) and doesn't put me in danger of dying.

I'm pretty sure you have to use the same path I used, as the entire level is a loop. However I definitely didn't need to jump on the last platform before the key.

Quote:

Twelve is somewhat tricky. I'm not sure if suiciding after the first Jill-gem is faster or not; one more thing to test. Suiciding after the last is certainly desirable, as is suiciding after the last fish-gem. That last bit is a bit tricky, since there's no convenient instant-death stuff around; trying to get killed by the last enemies immediately after picking up the gem could go wrong in any number of highly amusing and run-ending ways, as long as that number is roughly 3.

I'm pretty sure my route the fastest gem wise. However, if you could time your death as a fish when you pick up the last gem it would be much faster.

Quote:

Thirteen is easy.

In level 14, if you are playing on a CGA (4-color) monitor, most of the enemies are the same color as the background (except for their one-pixel eyes) and it's really hard to beat (if you have never played video games before). Fortunately, with the advance of technology, and no longer being a child, I can afford a better monitor these days. It shouldn't be hard, though I do have to be careful with my health, as I plan to jump through several flaming birds at once.

My route puts me down to 1 health before I die, could be cleaned up a bit.

Quote:

Fifteen and sixteen ought to be easy, as they are the ending sequence and the only way to screw them up is to press sideways during that small time between when the "demo" playback ends and the ending trigger is hit. With practice I should be able to avoid doing this reliably. Alternately, I could go ahead and screw up the ending because hey! It's the ending, timing finished at the end of level 14!

you could technically try and glitch the beginning of the demo and end it faster though I don't know if that works.

Yes, being sick, worrying about life, and not having a Windows 95/98 computer are all reasons why the any% run is not completed.  Hopefully I can help.

[quote="StrangenessDSS"]
No activity? Well! I think I'll try working on this while I procrastinate on getting a working capture card again. The game runs fine in XP with VDMSound, so there shouldn't be any problems recording it. (Sadly, the second and third games do not run properly, and I can't figure out any way to make them do so.)

To make things more interesting, I plan to do a 100% run. From my initial tests, the hut (levels 3-5) is the hardest part of the game to speedrun, so where's the fun in leaving it out?[/quote]

Because, as you mentioned, they are very infuriating.

[quote]
Levels 1 and 2 I have down pretty well, though I still need to do more precise testing as to which path through the first part of level 1 is fastest.
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure the non apple jump route is faster.  Also at the beginning you can kill both the corcodile and the bird in one shot, which I failed to do in my test run.

[quote]
I'll probably be doing levels 3-5 after that even though I think it'd be slightly faster to do them after 6-7, just because they're SO HARD. Three levels in a row with no health refills in between, plus annoying-to-avoid (and often invincible) enemies, plus randomly-timed flamethrowers? Aaargh! (The flamethrowers do always fire in the same pattern, but when the pattern starts seems to be random, oddly enough - I repeatedly loaded a save immediately before the level, and I'd usually make it past the first line of flamethrowers without getting hit and without having to wait, but sometimes I'd run smack into one or two flames.) Also I have rather vivid memories from my youth of one of the flamethrowers being buggy and tending to outright kill me and/or damage me when it's not firing. That'll be fun![/quote]

Yes that "random flamethrower" bug is still in there... Make sure you have about 4-5 dots of health around then other wise you will die, because there is a ball that comes down when you cross that area as well.

[quote]I think 7 before 6 is slightly faster than the other way around, so that's what I'll do if I don't change my mind. 7 allows deathwarping, as Phoenix pointed out, and is pretty simple. 6 is also pretty simple, though I'm not entirely sure which one out of the "tricky" key or the furthest-right key takes more time to get - I'll have to check that once I get recording set up.[/quote]

I don't think there is a difference.  You still have to travel from one to other other so you're essentially traveling the same difference.  Also I think that level 7 is actually closer to the gate, or at least you can reach it faster.

[quote]
The bonus level is trivial to complete, and not very hard to reach.

Arg's Dungeon shouldn't be hard. I have a path through the elevator part that I'm pretty sure is faster than what's shown in Phoenix's test run. Phoenix Maze, also easy, though again I need to test which of the two furthest keys is actually slower so I know where to deathwarp. The first part of the Knight's Puzzle is easy; the second part is somewhat trickier and I haven't worked out a precise path through it yet.[/quote]

you could try death warping in ARG's as well but I don't know how effective it would be.  Also I think my way is the fastest since you get on the arrow I was on and then you should be able to get the right elevator in two shots + 1 jump shot since you need to clear the blocks anyways.

I think the key through the block maze (farthest right) takes the longest time, probably best to die after that one.  It might be possible to "death grab" the key, by which I mean die but your dying hitbox picks up the key, allowing you to have all the keys.  I don't know if it works there though.

Knight's Puzzle is super easy except the end, I agree.  I messed that part up badly in my 'run'.

[quote]Eleven was the hardest level by far when I was a kid, but it's not so hard to speedrun. I have a path that's pretty fast (possibly about the fastest, though more testing would be required to be sure) and doesn't put me in danger of dying.[/quote]

I'm pretty sure you have to use the same path I used, as the entire level is a loop.  However I definitely didn't need to jump on the last platform before the key.

[quote]Twelve is somewhat tricky. I'm not sure if suiciding after the first Jill-gem is faster or not; one more thing to test. Suiciding after the last is certainly desirable, as is suiciding after the last fish-gem. That last bit is a bit tricky, since there's no convenient instant-death stuff around; trying to get killed by the last enemies immediately after picking up the gem could go wrong in any number of highly amusing and run-ending ways, as long as that number is roughly 3.[/quote]

I'm pretty sure my route the fastest gem wise.  However, if you could time your death as a fish when you pick up the last gem it would be much faster.

[quote]
Thirteen is easy.

In level 14, if you are playing on a CGA (4-color) monitor, most of the enemies are the same color as the background (except for their one-pixel eyes) and it's really hard to beat (if you have never played video games before). Fortunately, with the advance of technology, and no longer being a child, I can afford a better monitor these days. It shouldn't be hard, though I do have to be careful with my health, as I plan to jump through [i]several[/i] flaming birds at once.[/quote]

My route puts me down to 1 health before I die, could be cleaned up a bit.

[quote]Fifteen and sixteen ought to be easy, as they are the ending sequence and the only way to screw them up is to press sideways during that small time between when the "demo" playback ends and the ending trigger is hit. With practice I should be able to avoid doing this reliably. Alternately, I could go ahead and screw up the ending because hey! It's the ending, timing finished at the end of level 14![/quote]

you could technically try and glitch the beginning of the demo and end it faster though I don't know if that works.

CacheLine

2014-08-04 01:31:05 pm

Since DOSBox is now allowed for SDA submissions, I've started looking at this game. I'm playing the shareware version since it's very difficult to find a working copy of the non-shareware version. I've been working on the "All Levels" run because:
1. It's a little longer (this game is short enough)
2. It's easier to switch to the other category if that would be better for submission. The All Levels run is a superset of an any% run in that very little changes, things are just added to it.

My sum of bests so far puts me at 10:55 for a full game run, and I think sub-11 is a good time to shoot for in a single segment with my current strats (my PB isn't quite there yet). The later levels can probably still be a bit cleaner, because most of my runs die before Knight Maze. I'm not quite sure how low it can go yet.

Aside from the tricks mentioned here, I've also found out that it's possible to cancel some of the landing animation after jumping. If you crouch just as you land, and let go immediately, you can begin running again without most of the pause that normally occurs. It saves approximately 0.2 seconds per jump when you move after landing, which definitely adds up over the course of the run.

Since DOSBox is now allowed for SDA submissions, I've started looking at this game. I'm playing the shareware version since it's very difficult to find a working copy of the non-shareware version. I've been working on the "All Levels" run because:
1. It's a little longer (this game is short enough)
2. It's easier to switch to the other category if that would be better for submission. The All Levels run is a superset of an any% run in that very little changes, things are just added to it.

My sum of bests so far puts me at 10:55 for a full game run, and I think sub-11 is a good time to shoot for in a single segment with my current strats (my PB isn't quite there yet).  The later levels can probably still be a bit cleaner, because most of my runs die before Knight Maze. I'm not quite sure how low it can go yet.

Aside from the tricks mentioned here, I've also found out that it's possible to cancel some of the landing animation after jumping. If you crouch just as you land, and let go immediately, you can begin running again without most of the pause that normally occurs. It saves approximately 0.2 seconds per jump when you move after landing, which definitely adds up over the course of the run.

Phoenix3568

Edit history:

Phoenix3568: 2014-08-06 01:40:46 pm

Phoenix3568: 2014-08-06 01:33:25 pm

2014-08-06 01:31:38 pm

Procrastination Nation!

Hi!

I might have to look around but I *might* still have my official "all episodes" version of the game. I unfortunately don't have a floppy drive anymore but I'll take a look at some point and see what's around. You can find unofficial versions from sketchy DoS archive sites but I don't know how official they are.

Another thing you can do is buffer the jumping input. If you repress control in the air you'll immediately jump again after you land. This also cancel's the jumping animation if that works better.

I have found that most of the enemies and such spawn the exact same way every time. If you can match the time it takes for a level it will ALWAYS play out the same way. This could make route planning much more consistent.

Also remember the bonus level if you're doing an all levels run! You can run right through it but you'd need to hit that up as well.

Also if you're using my level 12 level as reference, I think it's faster to collect all the gems as Jill first, die, then do the fish gems. take enough damage so you can die as soon as you collect the last fish gem.

Hi!

I might have to look around but I *might* still have my official "all episodes" version of the game.  I unfortunately don't have a floppy drive anymore but I'll take a look at some point and see what's around.  You can find unofficial versions from sketchy DoS archive sites but I don't know how official they are.

Another thing you can do is buffer the jumping input.  If you repress control in the air you'll immediately jump again after you land.  This also cancel's the jumping animation if that works better.

I have found that most of the enemies and such spawn the exact same way every time.  If you can match the time it takes for a level it will ALWAYS play out the same way.  This could make route planning much more consistent.

Also remember the bonus level if you're doing an all levels run!  You can run right through it but you'd need to hit that up as well.

Also if you're using my level 12 level as reference, I think it's faster to collect all the gems as Jill first, die, then do the fish gems.  take enough damage so you can die as soon as you collect the last fish gem.

CacheLine

Edit history:

CacheLine: 2014-08-12 05:35:39 pm

CacheLine: 2014-08-12 05:35:00 pm

CacheLine: 2014-08-12 05:34:35 pm

CacheLine: 2014-08-12 05:34:10 pm

2014-08-09 03:58:20 pm

Ah, I didn't know about holding jump to jump immediately... I guess that makes sense. It makes the timing quite a bit less tight.

I managed to get a pretty good all levels run this week - 10:53. Not sure how to embed this in the post. Also, I'm not sure why, but the video takes like 45 seconds to load... it loads eventually, I promise.
http://www.twitch.tv/cacheline/c/4852753

edit: added youtube link, hopefully this works better

Main mistakes in this run:
Level 7 - Got stuck on the vine section. Vine physics are really difficult sometimes.
The Hut - My health was good, so running through some boulders would have saved another ~2 seconds
Bonus split - Vine physics ate another second
Level 8 - Two extra jumps, not sure on the time loss
Level 9 - Bird flapping was a bit sloppy. Got stuck on a wall once and didn't clear a wall once
Level 10 - The maze part was pretty good, but not optimal. Could have saved a few jumps. This is probably my weakest segment overall.
Level 11 - Missed the swag jump at the end of the level and caught the vine instead
Level 12 - Didn't lower the elevator all the way going into the level. A few minor movement mistakes

Ah, I didn't know about holding jump to jump immediately... I guess that makes sense. It makes the timing quite a bit less tight.

I managed to get a pretty good all levels run this week - 10:53. Not sure how to embed this in the post. Also, I'm not sure why, but the video takes like 45 seconds to load... it loads eventually, I promise.
http://www.twitch.tv/cacheline/c/4852753

edit: added youtube link, hopefully this works better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgdk82reHqk

Main mistakes in this run:
Level 7 - Got stuck on the vine section. Vine physics are really difficult sometimes.
The Hut - My health was good, so running through some boulders would have saved another ~2 seconds
Bonus split - Vine physics ate another second
Level 8 - Two extra jumps, not sure on the time loss
Level 9 - Bird flapping was a bit sloppy. Got stuck on a wall once and didn't clear a wall once
Level 10 - The maze part was pretty good, but not optimal. Could have saved a few jumps. This is probably my weakest segment overall.
Level 11 - Missed the swag jump at the end of the level and caught the vine instead
Level 12 - Didn't lower the elevator all the way going into the level. A few minor movement mistakes

Phoenix3568

2014-08-11 05:57:45 pm

Procrastination Nation!

If possible can you get a youtube link up? The twitch link doesn't play, though this could be due to the new twitch policies mucking everything up.

CacheLine

2014-08-12 05:36:46 pm

Quote from Phoenix3568:

If possible can you get a youtube link up? The twitch link doesn't play, though this could be due to the new twitch policies mucking everything up.

Yeah, I'm not sure what's going on with that VoD. Added a youtube link.

Phoenix3568

2014-08-13 09:40:31 am

Procrastination Nation!

Thanks!

Rope physics are quite annoying in this game. The problem is if you're at the very top and bottom the game doesn't like letting you go.
I could be wrong but I still think it's faster to do level 6 first and then 7.

In level 6: is getting the 2nd key there faster than doing the 'tricky' jump? It seems to be about the same time.

In level '5' it might be faster to jump on the square and jump again instead of getting on the chain. I'm not sure though. That was an amazing run of that level otherwise.

For vines/chains/ropes make sure you're scrunched off when you jump off otherwise you can't jump off

I really like what you did in arg's dungeon.

In the phoenix maze you can also use ctrl to 'jump' up. Alternating between the two can make it easier to ascend

Good path in knights dungeon or whatever it's called. I always try to go for that one but blade programming makes it somewhat inconsistent.

In the last level you could just jump across the chasm. It might not save much time but I think since it's such a short run it might be worth checking out.

except for some mistakes I think the pathing through the levels is really good.

Thanks!

Rope physics are quite annoying in this game.  The problem is if you're at the very top and bottom the game doesn't like letting you go.
I could be wrong but I still think it's faster to do level 6 first and then 7.

In level 6: is getting the 2nd key there faster than doing the 'tricky' jump?  It seems to be about the same time.

In level '5' it might be faster to jump on the square and jump again instead of getting on the chain.  I'm not sure though.  That was an amazing run of that level otherwise.

For vines/chains/ropes make sure you're scrunched off when you jump off otherwise you can't jump off

I really like what you did in arg's dungeon.

In the phoenix maze you can also use ctrl to 'jump' up.  Alternating between the two can make it easier to ascend

Good path in knights dungeon or whatever it's called.  I always try to go for that one but blade programming makes it somewhat inconsistent.

In the last level you could just jump across the chasm.  It might not save much time but I think since it's such a short run it might be worth checking out.

except for some mistakes I think the pathing through the levels is really good.

CacheLine

2014-08-15 02:39:07 pm

Quote from Phoenix3568:

I could be wrong but I still think it's faster to do level 6 first and then 7.

Yeah, I'm not sure on that one either. I guess I should go time it out at some point. My logic for doing it this way is that when you are leaving 6, the last jump you do will get you on top of the elevator shaft. Both jumps (elevator shaft->7, 6 cave-> elevator shaft) move you forward. To get from 6 to 7 needs two jumps while leaving the cave, and the first one is vertical + one block right... so it seems slower, at least.

Quote from Phoenix3568:

In level 6: is getting the 2nd key there faster than doing the 'tricky' jump? It seems to be about the same time.

I hadn't actually seen your route before I started my routing, so I went and timed both ways (top left->tower->tricky and top left->tower->far right). If you do the far right key segment optimally like I did in the 10:53 run it's about a second faster to grab the right key rather than the tricky key. If you fail anything though (falling directly to the key, grabbing multiple chains on the way out) it's going to be slower.

Quote from Phoenix3568:

In level '5' it might be faster to jump on the square and jump again instead of getting on the chain. I'm not sure though. That was an amazing run of that level otherwise.

Took me a bit to remember where there was even a chain in 5. It ends up being about 0.8 seconds slower to jump onto the square and jump to get the key. Moving up after grabbing a chain is actually pretty fast, and you end up pretty close to the key when you jump from the last crab platform anyway.

Quote from Phoenix3568:

In the phoenix maze you can also use ctrl to 'jump' up. Alternating between the two can make it easier to ascend

Didn't know this, so thanks for that.
My main problem part for that is trying not to flap *too* much. The way it works out is that one flap gives you almost exactly one block of height, and your downward speed actually increases every time you aren't flapping. Meaning, ideally, you do one flap to get onto a block's near edge so that by the time you make it to the other side you've already got a pretty fast downward speed.

Good path in knights dungeon or whatever it's called. I always try to go for that one but blade programming makes it somewhat inconsistent.

Quote from Phoenix3568:

In the last level you could just jump across the chasm. It might not save much time but I think since it's such a short run it might be worth checking out.

Good catch. I initially didn't do this because jumping through the birds takes a ton of health, but now that I've gotten better at hitting the crabs along the way with the blade it looks like it's viable now. I'm not sure how much time this will save, but it's one less jump and potentially less lag.

[quote="Phoenix3568"]
I could be wrong but I still think it's faster to do level 6 first and then 7.
[/quote]
Yeah, I'm not sure on that one either. I guess I should go time it out at some point. My logic for doing it this way is that when you are leaving 6, the last jump you do will get you on top of the elevator shaft. Both jumps (elevator shaft->7, 6 cave-> elevator shaft) move you forward. To get from 6 to 7 needs two jumps while leaving the cave, and the first one is vertical + one block right... so it seems slower, at least.

[quote="Phoenix3568"]
In level 6: is getting the 2nd key there faster than doing the 'tricky' jump?  It seems to be about the same time.
[/quote]
I hadn't actually seen your route before I started my routing, so I went and timed both ways (top left->tower->tricky and top left->tower->far right). If you do the far right key segment optimally like I did in the 10:53 run it's about a second faster to grab the right key rather than the tricky key. If you fail anything though (falling directly to the key, grabbing multiple chains on the way out) it's going to be slower.

[quote="Phoenix3568"]
In level '5' it might be faster to jump on the square and jump again instead of getting on the chain.  I'm not sure though.  That was an amazing run of that level otherwise.
[/quote]

Took me a bit to remember where there was even a chain in 5. It ends up being about 0.8 seconds slower to jump onto the square and jump to get the key. Moving up after grabbing a chain is actually pretty fast, and you end up pretty close to the key when you jump from the last crab platform anyway.

[quote="Phoenix3568"]
In the phoenix maze you can also use ctrl to 'jump' up.  Alternating between the two can make it easier to ascend
[/quote]
Didn't know this, so thanks for that.
My main problem part for that is trying not to flap *too* much. The way it works out is that one flap gives you almost exactly one block of height, and your downward speed actually increases every time you aren't flapping. Meaning, ideally, you do one flap to get onto a block's near edge so that by the time you make it to the other side you've already got a pretty fast downward speed.

Good path in knights dungeon or whatever it's called.  I always try to go for that one but blade programming makes it somewhat inconsistent.

[quote="Phoenix3568"]
In the last level you could just jump across the chasm.  It might not save much time but I think since it's such a short run it might be worth checking out.
[/quote]
Good catch. I initially didn't do this because jumping through the birds takes a ton of health, but now that I've gotten better at hitting the crabs along the way with the blade it looks like it's viable now. I'm not sure how much time this will save, but it's one less jump and potentially less lag.

CacheLine

2014-08-17 02:04:17 pm

I just timed out the lvl 6/7 order and came up with the following. I started doing this part of the timing from the first tile on the elevator shaft, since that's where all routes would probably diverge.

Doing 7 before 6 gives this:
shaft->lvl 7 = 3.4s
lvl 7 -> lvl 6 = 6.9s
lvl 6 -> top of shaft = 6.6s
total = 16.9s

And 6 before 7 gives this:
shaft->lvl 6 = 6.0s
lvl 6 -> lvl 7 = 7.8s
lvl 7 -> top of shaft = 3.9s
total = 17.7s

This actually helps confirm the any% too. Using my best segments modified by the travel distance between levels (+2.2 from the top of shaft/hut/shaft apple, +1 from top of shaft to apple) gives the following times:
lvl 7 + the hut = 1:48.9
lvl 7 + level 6 = 1:40.5

CacheLine

2014-08-29 01:28:30 pm

Managed to get a 10:33 today, even with ~7 seconds of stupid mistake. This is getting pretty close to what I want the all levels run to look like... if you ignore level 13, 14, and to some extent 10:

Most of the time comes from just not making execution errors, but I did change the route up a bit. Main things:

Level 5 (last part of The Hut): the jumps are a bit more efficient to get around the first set of boulders. If you have at least two spare dots of health going through the key door, you can run through the boulder behind the door and jump into the one rolling into the pit just after that. That + the jumps saves about 2.2 seconds.

Level 8: Figured out good/easy positioning for the blades, so that you only need four throws to break the bricks to the left/right of start. You want to hold jump while entering the level, move a half-tile to the right so that you bonk your head on the ceiling but still get the blade. Throwing from a half tile to the right of the start twice will open up a path to the exit, and throwing from a half tile to the left of start will open up the path to the rest of the level.

Managed to get a 10:33 today, even with ~7 seconds of stupid mistake. This is getting pretty close to what I want the all levels run to look like... if you ignore level 13, 14, and to some extent 10:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FgSU7INEhs
Most of the time comes from just not making execution errors, but I did change the route up a bit. Main things:

Level 5 (last part of The Hut): the jumps are a bit more efficient to get around the first set of boulders. If you have at least two spare dots of health going through the key door, you can run through the boulder behind the door and jump into the one rolling into the pit just after that. That + the jumps saves about 2.2 seconds.

Level 8: Figured out good/easy positioning for the blades, so that you only need four throws to break the bricks to the left/right of start. You want to hold jump while entering the level, move a half-tile to the right so that you bonk your head on the ceiling but still get the blade. Throwing from a half tile to the right of the start twice will open up a path to the exit, and throwing from a half tile to the left of start will open up the path to the rest of the level.

CacheLine

2014-09-25 01:17:51 pm

At a 10:26 right now. I'm fairly happy with the run, but I missed 3 jumps in level 10 - so I'm going to see if I can get a better one before I submit.

Also, I ran into something interesting yesterday. During my run, I somehow got into a state where I could pick up message box apples without getting the message boxes. It seemed to carry across new games, and went away once I restarted the game. I went over the video I took but I didn't really see anything odd that I did, so I'll need to keep investigating. This would skip at least two text boxes, and would make it so you don't need to dodge the one after level 1... not sure how much time it saves total, but it might save a second or two if it's easy to trigger.

CacheLine

2015-02-03 12:22:55 pm

Been a while since I posted anything here. I did get my 10:23 (less in SDA timing) a while back. It could still be improved, which is why I haven't submitted it yet - but I'm starting to wonder if it's worth just submitting since I doubt I will go back to it any time soon. It's to the point where I'd need a flawless run to improve it by a few seconds.

I've started routing Jill Goes Underground in the meantime. For the most part, the game seems to be pretty straight forward. I need to figure out where to deathwarp in some of the later portions of the game.

Heck, however, is going to be terrible:
- The demons there seem to take 6 hits from a blade to kill
- The demons can shoot a fireball every time unit, probably up to some onscreen limit. Massive lag and massive damage if you can't dodge them.
- You don't have enough health to run through the area without killing about half of them and getting lucky with fireball RNG.

Right now my plan is to see if I can get good at killing the first X demons, and dodge/run through the second half, but I'm still experimenting. I managed to get through the area yesterday with only one death, which is a lot better than I was doing initially.

Been a while since I posted anything here. I did get my 10:23 (less in SDA timing) a while back. It could still be improved, which is why I haven't submitted it yet - but I'm starting to wonder if it's worth just submitting since I doubt I will go back to it any time soon. It's to the point where I'd need a flawless run to improve it by a few seconds.

I've started routing Jill Goes Underground in the meantime. For the most part, the game seems to be pretty straight forward. I need to figure out where to deathwarp in some of the later portions of the game.

Heck, however, is going to be terrible: 
- The demons there seem to take 6 hits from a blade to kill 
- The demons can shoot a fireball every time unit, probably up to some onscreen limit. Massive lag and massive damage if you can't dodge them.
- You don't have enough health to run through the area without killing about half of them and getting lucky with fireball RNG.

Right now my plan is to see if I can get good at killing the first X demons, and dodge/run through the second half, but I'm still experimenting. I managed to get through the area yesterday with only one death, which is a lot better than I was doing initially.

Uilnslcoap

2015-02-03 01:14:40 pm

F*ckin' sanity effects...

I would submit if it's less than 7 or 8 seconds you think could reasonably come off it (and it sounds like it's less than that). Brings back fond memories, thanks for working on this!

gammadragon

2015-02-04 12:24:12 am

Might be magic...

Yes, definitely submit it!