Jedi Outcast - Jedi Master in ~43minutes by recon

2012-12-30 04:58:26 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Changing the aspect ratio isn't necessarily a no-no so long as the engine supports it natively and the results don't squish the players/world. A slight UI squish is tolerable, but not the entire video.

hesto

2012-12-30 06:05:46 pm

Wow, this is one of the coolest speedruns I've seen on this site. The shortcuts are mindblowing even when you don't know the game at all...
I've never played this game before, but it's very impressive and I wouldn't want to miss such a great run in the archives.

Bacn

Edit history:

Bacn: 2012-12-30 10:08:56 pm

2012-12-30 10:08:40 pm

That was absolutely incredible. All at once my entire world has been shattered and everything I know is a lie. You've set the bar so high it's going to take ages to reach. But it's great to have something so amazing to push me farther and best of all I don't feel bad about not getting around to testing out the Bespin sentry skip.

Few questions:
*How did you get the timing right for the ship jump in NS Streets? Is it just a matter of trying until it shows when you need it?
*How did you speed up the conversation with the door guard in NS Hideout? Was it the force push?
*In Bespin Undercity, did you have a method for getting consistent timing with the gusts and the first reborn jump?
*How did the first shadow trooper kill work?
*Did you have a method for force pushing reborns that stopped them from blocking?
*How did you skip the fire in Yavin Final?
*The reborn lightsaber kills were astonishing. Are they simply the result of countless hours practicing on multiplayer?

recon

2012-12-31 04:22:11 am

Thanks for the compliments hesto and Bacn, I appreciate it.

For your questions, Bacn:

- Actually, it was a complete coincidence that the flying ship came pretty much when I needed it. I had just tried to get to that place in the map as fast as I could, and it turned out to be near perfect for using that ship to jump on - it seems that the ship moves at a fixed rate and so doesn't come randomly.
At first, I was trying to use other ways of getting onto the moving air cart such as strafe jumping, but to no avail. I then randomly saw that this aircraft flew right in a path between the place I was and the cart I needed to get onto. I would then attempt jumping onto this aircraft and some practising after, I succeeded. It's lucky that it's even possible to jump onto the aircraft shortly without dying. It seems to have a trigger so that you, after coming in touch with it, die. You will see this if you attempt jumping onto the ships right in the beginning of the level (they come up from big holes in the ground). Fortunately, it seems that if you land on the ship the right place (somewhere in the back), and jump from it asap, you'll survive.

- By that door guard, I'm assuming the one who asks you for a password? I didn't speed it up, actually. I just moved briefly in front of the door to start the convo trigger, and then I had time to get some goodies. I had seen LLCoolDave do this in his newer attempt and so I did as well because you just have to wait anyway. So, no convo skip.

- In undercity, it seemed that the gusts appeared completely randomly. I was very lucky, however, and in one of my first attempts every gust except the last one came in perfect timing. For this reason, I made a new segment just after landing the last place, right after the cutscene. I was not able to replicate this luck several attempts later.

My way of killing the first Reborn by letting him fall into oblivion did require some practise and luck to not take any damage from his lightsaber without having my own (it's amusing that I lost my lightsaber, got away with it, and got it back right before I needed it - at the second reborn). It was a pretty hard segment indeed and required some luck and good timing, and this is why I made another segment right at the door after killing the reborn. In retrospect, it's a shame I didn't adjust the camera so that you could see the reborn fall. I did have time for this, and it would had made it just a bit more entertaining. If you listen closely, you can hear his death cry, though.

- If I remember correctly, the first shadowtrooper appears in level 17 in the level with the alarm posts. If so, there are actually two shadowtroopers down in that hole. After some tests, using force pull to make them fall to their doom turned out to be the fastest way of killing them. With some luck, you can get both of them very high up in the air with force pull after using it two times.

- As for force pushing reborns down to the ground, it seemed completely luck based except for when they were in the air (which they weren't much). This luck was required in both level 18 and 19, which was a little annoying. It turned out to happen not too rarely, though.

- The fire skip in yavin_final required insane luck and well, timing, and force speed. I hadn't done much planning, I just popped force speed and tried jumping past the fire pretty much randomly as fast as I could. I would nearly always die at the last fire stream, but a few times I had luck to move past it, although with health loss (health isn't an issue, however, since I believe I have 5 bactas at that point). Again, luck is a big part of the equation. So were the moving walls right before Desann.

- Thanks. I guess you can contribute some of my skill ,if you will, to countless hours on multiplayer. That said, the lightsaber system is significantly different in single player, so you have to revise your swings. In particular, the lunge attack on blue style which is very useful, happens unpredictably in single player. Which is quite annoying, since I needed to use it consistently two times in the run.
Both red and yellow style were useful. Yellow for quick slashing when they were on the ground (if they aren't down on the ground, their lightsabers will block my yellow attacks almost certainly) - I also used this at Tavion - and red style for for heavy attacks when I couldn't get the enemy jedis down on the ground, e.g. Desann (damn it, could a final boss fight be any easier? Fyaar was the hardest one!)

On another note, I had actually also tested that sentry skip in Bespin Streets. For me it seemed that the hardest part of that trick was to get/find a sentry in the first place. Nevertheless, it's a pretty cool trick, although unnecessary.

On another tech-related note: For some incredible reason, the first segment I have in my speedrun is recorded with 65 fps instead of 60 fps (which all the other segments are). Don't ask me why. Since Anri-chan requires same fps for project files, this means I cannot join segments together in the first level.
Problem: modify the first segment so that it's 60 fps instead of 65. Solution: I don't know, yet.

This turns out to be pretty hard. I searched on Google and on this forum, and came across a command called ChangeFPS() for avisynth. I tried using a script with ChangeFPS(60), and it seemed to work, as in, I could make a new file containing the first segment, but with 60 fps. Anri-chan wouldn't accept this file for some reason, and it kept giving me the same error that the files don't match in framerate or resolution or something like that. Maybe I should point out that the original 65 fps segment file is 642 MB, while the new 60 fps file is a whopping 2,8 GB.
I think I'm going to need some serious tech support to overcome this problem. Does any tech expert happen to read this thread, or should I make a new thread in tech support forum?

Thanks for the compliments hesto and Bacn, I appreciate it.

For your questions, Bacn:

- Actually, it was a complete coincidence that the flying ship came pretty much when I needed it. I had just tried to get to that place in the map as fast as I could, and it turned out to be near perfect for using that ship to jump on - it seems that the ship moves at a fixed rate and so doesn't come randomly.
 At first, I was trying to use other ways of getting onto the moving air cart such as strafe jumping, but to no avail. I then randomly saw that this aircraft flew right in a path between the place I was and the cart I needed to get onto. I would then attempt jumping onto this aircraft and some practising after, I succeeded. It's lucky that it's even possible to jump onto the aircraft shortly without dying. It seems to have a trigger so that you, after coming in touch with it, die. You will see this if you attempt jumping onto the ships right in the beginning of the level (they come up from big holes in the ground). Fortunately, it seems that if you land on the ship the right place (somewhere in the back), and jump from it asap, you'll survive.

- By that door guard, I'm assuming the one who asks you for a password? I didn't speed it up, actually. I just moved briefly in front of the door to start the convo trigger, and then I had time to get some goodies. I had seen LLCoolDave do this in his newer attempt and so I did as well because you just have to wait anyway. So, no convo skip.

- In undercity, it seemed that the gusts appeared completely randomly. I was very lucky, however, and in one of my first attempts every gust except the last one came in perfect timing. For this reason, I made a new segment just after landing the last place, right after the cutscene. I was not able to replicate this luck several attempts later.

My way of killing the first Reborn by letting him fall into oblivion did require some practise and luck to not take any damage from his lightsaber without having my own (it's amusing that I lost my lightsaber, got away with it, and got it back right before I needed it - at the second reborn). It was a pretty hard segment indeed and required some luck and good timing, and this is why I made another segment right at the door after killing the reborn. In retrospect, it's a shame I didn't adjust the camera so that you could see the reborn fall. I did have time for this, and it would had made it just a bit more entertaining. If you listen closely, you can hear his death cry, though.

- If I remember correctly, the first shadowtrooper appears in level 17 in the level with the alarm posts. If so, there are actually two shadowtroopers down in that hole. After some tests, using force pull to make them fall to their doom turned out to be the fastest way of killing them. With some luck, you can get both of them very high up in the air with force pull after using it two times.

- As for force pushing reborns down to the ground, it seemed completely luck based except for when they were in the air (which they weren't much). This luck was required in both level 18 and 19, which was a little annoying. It turned out to happen not too rarely, though.

- The fire skip in yavin_final required insane luck and well, timing, and force speed. I hadn't done much planning, I just popped force speed and tried jumping past the fire pretty much randomly as fast as I could. I would nearly always die at the last fire stream, but a few times I had luck to move past it, although with health loss (health isn't an issue, however, since I believe I have 5 bactas at that point). Again, luck is a big part of the equation. So were the moving walls right before Desann.

- Thanks. I guess you can contribute some of my skill ,if you will, to countless hours on multiplayer. That said, the lightsaber system is significantly different in single player, so you have to revise your swings. In particular, the lunge attack on blue style which is very useful, happens unpredictably in single player. Which is quite annoying, since I needed to use it consistently two times in the run.
Both red and yellow style were useful. Yellow for quick slashing when they were on the ground (if they aren't down on the ground, their lightsabers will block my yellow attacks almost certainly) - I also used this at Tavion - and red style for for heavy attacks when I couldn't get the enemy jedis down on the ground, e.g. Desann (damn it, could a final boss fight be any easier? Fyaar was the hardest one!)

On another note, I had actually also tested that sentry skip in Bespin Streets. For me it seemed that the hardest part of that trick was to get/find a sentry in the first place. Nevertheless, it's a pretty cool trick, although unnecessary.

[b]On another tech-related note[/b]: For some incredible reason, the first segment I have in my speedrun is recorded with 65 fps instead of 60 fps (which all the other segments are). Don't ask me why. Since Anri-chan requires same fps for project files, this means I cannot join segments together in the first level. 
Problem: modify the first segment so that it's 60 fps instead of 65.  Solution: I don't know, yet.

This turns out to be pretty hard. I searched on Google and on this forum, and came across a command called ChangeFPS() for avisynth. I tried using a script with ChangeFPS(60), and it seemed to work, as in, I could make a new file containing the first segment, but with 60 fps.  Anri-chan wouldn't accept this file for some reason, and it kept giving me the same error that the files don't match in framerate or resolution or something like that. Maybe I should point out that the original 65 fps segment file is 642 MB, while the new 60 fps file is a whopping 2,8 GB.
I think I'm going to need some serious tech support to overcome this problem. Does any tech expert happen to read this thread, or should I make a new thread in tech support forum?

moooh

2012-12-31 05:06:08 am

Exoray

As for your submission related questions:
There's a precedent for allowing FOV changes (Borderlands) as long as it's reasonable (I.e don't run with FOV 150 or something high like that)

For timing purposes you will likely have to submit every segment separately.
For verification purposes I'm sure the verifiers would be very happy if you also provided appended videos of each level or something like that.

Regarding your fps issue, do make a thread in tech support about it.

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2012-12-31 05:10:14 am

ExplodingCabbage: 2012-12-31 05:09:59 am

2012-12-31 05:08:57 am

Quote from recon:

In retrospect, it's a shame I didn't adjust the camera so that you could see the reborn fall. I did have time for this, and it would had made it just a bit more entertaining. If you listen closely, you can hear his death cry, though.

Don't worry, just leaving us to hear his death without seeing it was far, far funnier than seeing it could ever have been.

Kyle makes a casual hop onto the Reborn's head.
Reborn: Where are you, Jedi?
Reborn: Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! (dies)
Kyle: ... strange.

A masterpiece of dialogue and storytelling of the kind that is only found in speedruns.

recon

2012-12-31 08:52:55 am

moooh: That's reassuring to hear.
And another little tech question: Let's say I am to make a video file for each segment (so 81 videos in total); Do I have to make 81 individual projects in anrichan for each segment? Or is there a way to, uhm, make it do this in a faster way?

Also, LLCoolDave already said he'd want one video per segment (IIRC) for verifying, but do other potential verifiers agree with this? And do you agree with moooh that I also should make videos that contain one level each? (In short, how can I encode the files to please you/the verifiers?)

ExplodingC: Haha, I never really thought of it that way. That's pretty funny indeed.

honorableJay

Edit history:

honorableJay: 2012-12-31 07:12:04 pm

2012-12-31 01:24:20 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

recon: if you have all of the segments numbered you can put them in 1 folder and anri will scan that folder and add every video there to the project. Might wanna do a test though to make sure everything gets put in the right order.

***Edit***

Quote from moooh:

As for your submission related questions:
There's a precedent for allowing FOV changes (Borderlands) as long as it's reasonable (I.e don't run with FOV 150 or something high like that)

So if I was running a game that lets me change the FOV (Vampire Bloodlines or Jedi Academy) that uses a default fov of 70 or 80, I can safely bump it up to 90 or 100 and not get the run rejected now?

recon

2013-01-01 07:01:43 am

A few questions so that I can get started with encoding verification files:

- Is it necessary that I make both a "one segment per video"-encode as well as a "one level per video"-encode (for verification)? I would find the latter more useful for verifying, which moooh also pointed out. moooh also said that I in addition "likely" had to encode one segment per video - for timing purposes - but is this necessary (it would take a lot more time for me to encode 81 videos individually)? Can timing not be done levelwise? Maybe some of the potential verifiers/timers can discuss this.

- After going through my run archive, I've come across a (maybe little) problem. For two segment breaks, I have somehow unintentionally managed to get rid of the save files - one save file in level 1 and one in level 3. As far as I have understood, verifiers may need the save files for verification. Is it a problem that two of the save files are gone? (I have not checked the rest of my files; it may be possible that more save files are missing, but this is very much unlikely since I started being more careful with files as I progressed.)

- I've made two test encodes using anri-chan, a HQ and a MQ file. It's my idea that when I'm doing the "one level per video"-verification encodes, this is how they'll be done. The download links to the files are in my thread over at tech support:

http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/changing_a_videos_framerate_for_use_in_anrichan_projects_8.html

For verification, are MQ encodes sufficient, or should I stick with HQ encodes?

- If this run gets submitted correctly and is accepted to the site, I'd prefer that interested people can download the whole run in one file, with or without visible segment breaks. The files I submit for verification don't necessarily need to be the final files for public downloading, right?

honorableJay- Unfortunately I don't think that solves my problem since I, if I've understood correctly, need 81 individual anrichan projects for making 81 individual encodes of each segment.

A few questions so that I can get started with encoding verification files:

- Is it necessary that I make both a "one segment per video"-encode as well as a "one level per video"-encode (for verification)? I would find the latter more useful for verifying, which moooh also pointed out. moooh also said that I in addition "likely" had to encode one segment per video - for timing purposes - but is this necessary (it would take a lot more time for me to encode 81 videos individually)? Can timing not be done levelwise? Maybe some of the potential verifiers/timers can discuss this.

- After going through my run archive, I've come across a (maybe little) problem. For two segment breaks, I have somehow unintentionally managed to get rid of the save files - one save file in level 1 and one in level 3. As far as I have understood, verifiers may need the save files for verification. Is it a problem that two of the save files are gone? (I have not checked the rest of my files; it may be possible that more save files are missing, but this is very much unlikely since I started being more careful with files as I progressed.)

- I've made two test encodes using anri-chan, a HQ and a MQ file. It's my idea that when I'm doing the "one level per video"-verification encodes, this is how they'll be done. The download links to the files are in my thread over at tech support:

http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/changing_a_videos_framerate_for_use_in_anrichan_projects_8.html

For verification, are MQ encodes sufficient, or should I stick with HQ encodes?

- If this run gets submitted correctly and is accepted to the site, I'd prefer that interested people can download the whole run in one file, with or without visible segment breaks. The files I submit for verification don't necessarily need to be the final files for public downloading, right?

honorableJay- Unfortunately I don't think that solves my problem since I, if I've understood correctly, need 81 individual anrichan projects for making 81 individual encodes of each segment.

IsraeliRD

Edit history:

IsraeliRD: 2013-01-01 07:34:56 am

2013-01-01 07:33:32 am

Dragon Power Supreme

- Not really. If you want to do one level per video, you're welcome to do so (verifiers will be happy). However for timing purposes (since I'll be timing your speedrun) it's best if I can see all segment breaks so that I know where things start/end. Nonetheless I don't need 81 segments as long as the provided video is the "raw" encode, with all segmentation breaks.

- This would be up to verifiers; not all PC runners give their save files to verifiers/publication.

- Whether MQ or HQ is up to you. HQ is always a bit nicer for verifiers but MQ is the least needed.

- Correct. As a PC runner you can remove all segments breaks.

Lastly you don't need 81 individual anrichan projects. If your runs are listed as JediOutcast-segment01.avi (so 01-09 and then 10-81) you can input the directory by itself and it'll list all the segments automatically in order (01-81). You can then edit the frames which makes things a tad easier but the end run will be a properly ordered speedrun which is in one file.
However once you hit this kind of large amount of files Anri-Chan/VDub probably won't like this, so you may need to do a New Master File (warning: takes a ton of HD space) for all 81. Since you plan on a single video without any breaks for publication, then it's probable you need that NMF.

- Not really. If you want to do one level per video, you're welcome to do so (verifiers will be happy). However for timing purposes (since I'll be timing your speedrun) it's best if I can see all segment breaks so that I know where things start/end. Nonetheless I don't need 81 segments as long as the provided video is the "raw" encode, with all segmentation breaks.

- This would be up to verifiers; not all PC runners give their save files to verifiers/publication.

- Whether MQ or HQ is up to you. HQ is always a bit nicer for verifiers but MQ is the least needed.

- Correct. As a PC runner you can remove all segments breaks.

Lastly you don't need 81 individual anrichan projects. If your runs are listed as JediOutcast-segment01.avi (so 01-09 and then 10-81) you can input the directory by itself and it'll list all the segments automatically in order (01-81).  You can then edit the frames which makes things a tad easier but the end run will be a properly ordered speedrun which is in one file.
However once you hit this kind of large amount of files Anri-Chan/VDub probably won't like this, so you may need to do a New Master File (warning: takes a ton of HD space) for all 81. Since you plan on a single video without any breaks for publication, then it's probable you need that NMF.

recon

Edit history:

recon: 2013-01-01 12:03:00 pm

recon: 2013-01-01 08:44:17 am

2013-01-01 08:25:13 am

Thanks for clarification, IsraeliRD. I'm kind of curious as to how the run is going to be timed, especially if cutscenes are going to count in the final time. Also, right before the end of a level, there is a second or so where your movement stops and the screen is still. I'm curious if this is going to count in the time, or if it's considered loading time.

Also, I have made a really stupid calculation error when adding together the number of segments (not that I calculated wrong, just that I forgot to update the number of segments after finishing the last 6 levels - lol). The final number of segments is 100 instead if 81. I'm sorry I have been misleading people. When accounting for segment breaks happening at autosave locations, I find that the final number of seconds lost from segmentation is 36.

To anyone who might verify, please see this MQ encode of the first level and see if you find it sufficient for verification, or if I should do HQ encodes:
http://www.mediafire.com/?oo7c37kk723zucz
If there are no objections, I'm going to go with MQ files for verifiers since they're smaller in size and faster to encode.

EDIT: Jesus, another wrong calculation. Final number of segments is 100.
Edit2: My bad, time lost from segmentation seems to be 36 secs.

Thanks for clarification, IsraeliRD. I'm kind of curious as to how the run is going to be timed, especially if cutscenes are going to count in the final time. Also, right before the end of a level, there is a second or so where your movement stops and the screen is still. I'm curious if this is going to count in the time, or if it's considered loading time.

Also, I have made a really stupid calculation error when adding together the number of segments (not that I calculated wrong, just that I forgot to update the number of segments after finishing the last 6 levels - lol). [b]The final number of segments is 100[/b] instead if 81. I'm sorry I have been misleading people. When accounting for segment breaks happening at autosave locations, I find that the final number of seconds lost from segmentation is 36.

To anyone who might verify, please see this MQ encode of the first level and see if you find it sufficient for verification, or if I should do HQ encodes:
http://www.mediafire.com/?oo7c37kk723zucz
If there are no objections, I'm going to go with MQ files for verifiers since they're smaller in size and faster to encode.

EDIT: Jesus, another wrong calculation. Final number of segments is  100.
Edit2: My bad, time lost from segmentation seems to be 36 secs.

LotBlind

2013-01-01 08:49:51 am

Good enough for me if I'm gonna be verifying. I can clearly see your hp, shields and ammo.

AdHoc

2013-01-01 09:03:35 am

I'm sure you'll take as much congratulations as you can get, so: congrats!

Your run is beautiful, I watched twice today and I'll probably watch it again soon.

Good luck for getting on SDA.

X

2013-01-01 09:10:51 am

destroy them with lazers

Congrats. I loved the old run and I'm loving this new run.

Angelmark

2013-01-01 11:38:52 am

The Anomaly

Like other before me have said, phenomenal run you have there. Totally worth a hundred segments if you ask me. Not only was it fast, but I felt that it was aesthetically pleasing to watch aswell. Good job.

IsraeliRD

2013-01-01 06:11:50 pm

Dragon Power Supreme

MQ works for me as well, thanks for the encode Smiley

I saw from your encode what you mean about the movement stopping, this will not be counted towards your final time. Also, how many segments are due to autosaves (out of 100)?

recon

Edit history:

recon: 2013-01-02 06:15:39 am

recon: 2013-01-02 06:15:00 am

2013-01-02 05:24:31 am

AdHoc, X and Angelmark- thanks for the nice words. I did put a lot of work into this, so I'm glad I'm not the only one enjoying the end result. I'm curious, which part(s) did you enjoy the most?

IsraeliRD- ok, thanks for clarification. Now, for my super sophisticated calculation that shows the amount of seconds lost from segmentation:

- Each level's first segment is the beginning of a level which is started from an auto-generated save file. There are 24 levels, so this means that 24 less segments trigger save penalties.

- I use additional auto-saves in another 4 places throughout levels. (there could be one or two more, but unlikely.). So, 4 less segments trigger save penalties.

- It follows that seconds lost from segmentation is (100-24-4)*0,5 = 72/2 = 36

Now I'll be damned if I did this wrong, too Grin

On a related note, I'm currently looking at possibilities for reducing the 36 secs lost from segmentation (I think the discovery that I used 100 segments called for this). I'm also trying to see if there are places in the run that can be done faster. So far I haven't found much that I can do faster yet, realistically. But I'm taking suggestions Wink

(anything that has crossed your mind- that maybe if I used another weapon, it'd be faster etc.)

Things that can be/is improved in the current run
- What I've done so far is improve the last two segments in level 5. I wanted to utilize that you can prepare the throwing of a grenade (i.e. hold right or left mouse button down), then press escape, and save. If you hold the same mouse button while loading, and let go of it after you're in the game, you can throw the grenade instantly without having to wait for it to be ready (if this makes any sense). Anyway, I thought this could improve a second or so, but so far I've only improved the level by a whopping 0,5 seconds. Turns out it wasn't that significant a change, after all.

- I have found a mistake in the run I uploaded, in level 15. In it, I unnecessarily kill three reborns. I've found out that you only need to kill the last two spawning reborns. So far I have managed to save 3 seconds by not doing this, and if I get a good end segment (which is probably one of the hardest segments in the run; the one with the jumping past the ATST and the damn mines before the end of the level - I have like 10 bloopers files where I after a good run jump right down to the mines and blow up), it could save maybe a second more. I've also utilized an automatic save checkpoint which I did not use in the "old" run. This means that I save an additional 0,5 secs in this level.

- In level 3, there's an automatic save checkpoint which I don't use. It's before I get onto the moving air cart. If I use this checkpoint, another 0,5 secs can be saved from save penalties alone (I'll not be able to get onto the air cart faster - it seems to come at fixed time - so no additional time can be spared here). The only thing difficult about using this is that I need to sync the second segment so that it matches perfectly with the third segment, which begins midway on the air cart.
If anyone knows what I meant with what I just mentioned, I'd appreciate if you could advice me whether or not I should attempt this. In this case, is it very important that my position is exactly the same at the end of the second segment and the beginning of the third segment, on the air cart? (I'd think that it was enough that the moving air cart was in the same place).

- In level 7 (yavin_trial), I could maybe split the two last segments into one. I'll see if I can be bothered with this, though. The insane lightsaber skip is quite hard to get right.

- In level 11 I think the last segment can be done a little faster (it begins at the door after the first reborn kill in the big wide area). If the npcs let me jump uninterruptedly, I can get faster to the "carbon" (red) room. I also think that the three rodian npcs in the last room can be killed faster, maybe with a thermal detonator, instead of a lightsaber.

- In level 12, last segment, I think that the imperial commander can be killed faster, probably with weapon 6 (forgot its name, but it's the weapon you get in that same level). Can probably save half a second.

- The last segment in lvl 18, which is quite a long one, seems improvable. Can't explain why. It also contains some computer lag which I'll probably want to avoid when submitting the run.

- In level 23, the room with the jedis some of which you have to kill for the missile launch to take place (so you can move on). I think that it's only the red boss reborns you have to get rid of for the missile to launch. If this is correct, I unnecessarily kill two additional reborns in the current run, before getting to the ones that matter. If I changed this I could maybe save a second or so. I don't like the thought of redoing that particular segment, though Tongue

- In last level, it's possible that I could join together the last two segments. It would just require many attempts and luck to get Desann in the right position after doing the first hard bit with the moving walls.

Anything else?

edit: time saved in lvl 15 is 3 seconds, not 4

AdHoc, X and Angelmark- thanks for the nice words. I did put a lot of work into this, so I'm glad I'm not the only one enjoying the end result. I'm curious, which part(s) did you enjoy the most?

IsraeliRD- ok, thanks for clarification. Now, for my super sophisticated calculation that shows the amount of seconds lost from segmentation:

- Each level's first segment is the beginning of a level which is started from an auto-generated save file. There are 24 levels, so this means that 24 less segments trigger save penalties.

- I use additional auto-saves in another 4 places throughout levels. (there could be one or two more, but unlikely.). So, 4 less segments trigger save penalties.

- It follows that seconds lost from segmentation is  (100-24-4)*0,5 = 72/2 = 36

Now I'll be damned if I did this wrong, too ;D

On a related note, I'm currently looking at possibilities for reducing the 36 secs lost from segmentation (I think the discovery that I used 100 segments called for this). I'm also trying to see if there are places in the run that can be done faster. So far I haven't found much that I can do faster yet, realistically. But I'm taking suggestions ;) (anything that has crossed your mind- that maybe if I used another weapon, it'd be faster etc.)

[u][b]Things that can be/is improved in the current run [/b][/u]
- What I've done so far is improve the last two segments in level 5. I wanted to utilize that you can prepare the throwing of a grenade (i.e. hold right or left mouse button down), then press escape, and save. If you hold the same mouse button while loading, and let go of it after you're in the game, you can throw the grenade instantly without having to wait for it to be ready (if this makes any sense). Anyway, I thought this could improve a second or so, but so far I've only improved the level by a whopping 0,5 seconds. Turns out it wasn't that significant a change, after all.

- I have found a mistake in the run I uploaded, in level 15. In it, I unnecessarily kill three reborns. I've found out that you only need to kill the last two spawning reborns. So far I have managed to save 3 seconds by not doing this, and if I get a good end segment (which is probably one of the hardest segments in the run; the one with the jumping past the ATST and the damn mines before the end of the level - I have like 10 bloopers files where I after a good run jump right down to the mines and blow up), it could save maybe a second more. I've also utilized an automatic save checkpoint which I did not use in the "old" run. This means that I save an additional 0,5 secs in this level.

- In level 3, there's an automatic save checkpoint which I don't use. It's before I get onto the moving air cart. If I use this checkpoint, another 0,5 secs can be saved from save penalties alone (I'll not be able to get onto the air cart faster - it seems to come at fixed time - so no additional time can be spared here). The only thing difficult about using this is that I need to sync the second segment so that it matches perfectly with the third segment, which begins midway on the air cart. 
If anyone knows what I meant with what I just mentioned, I'd appreciate if you could advice me whether or not I should attempt this. In this case, is it very important that my position is exactly the same at the end of the second segment and the beginning of the third segment, on the air cart? (I'd think that it was enough that the moving air cart was in the same place).

- In level 7 (yavin_trial), I could maybe split the two last segments into one. I'll see if I can be bothered with this, though. The insane lightsaber skip is quite hard to get right.

- In level 11 I think the last segment can be done a little faster (it begins at the door after the first reborn kill in the big wide area). If the npcs let me jump uninterruptedly, I can get faster to the "carbon" (red) room. I also think that the three rodian npcs in the last room can be killed faster, maybe with a thermal detonator, instead of a lightsaber.

- In level 12, last segment, I think that the imperial commander can be killed faster, probably with weapon 6 (forgot its name, but it's the weapon you get in that same level). Can probably save half a second.

- The last segment in lvl 18, which is quite a long one, seems improvable. Can't explain why. It also contains some computer lag which I'll probably want to avoid when submitting the run.

- In level 23, the room with the jedis some of which you have to kill for the missile launch to take place (so you can move on). I think that it's only the red boss reborns you have to get rid of for the missile to launch. If this is correct, I unnecessarily kill two additional reborns in the current run, before getting to the ones that matter. If I changed this I could maybe save a second or so. I don't like the thought of redoing that particular segment, though :P

- In last level, it's possible that I could join together the last two segments. It would just require many attempts and luck to get Desann in the right position after doing the first hard bit with the moving walls.

Anything else?

edit: time saved in lvl 15 is 3 seconds, not 4

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2013-01-03 08:47:35 am

2013-01-02 07:08:25 am

As for favourite parts in the run: I liked the whole of the beginning of the run probably with the higher pov creating a really speedy feel, the huge skip in the beginning of Mines, then threatening the imperial with the trip mine (I thought that went really smooth as well) and did anyone notice the other reborn dying from falling at 31.25? He's like: "Kyle I dare you to jump down this ledge. Come on you coward! Here let me show you how it's done! Oh **** I forgot my bungee cord!".

I also liked the precarious "dodge-like-a-maniac" scene at the end of Streets.

edit: whoops I meant Nar Shaddaa streets, after hopping onto the trash cart.

gammadragon

2013-01-02 04:49:16 pm

Might be magic...

Bacn used thermal detonators to destroy the turrets at the end of ns_hideout in about 10 seconds. From your video it looks like it takes around 12 seconds with the blaster rifle. Great if you can spare the detonators.

X

2013-01-02 05:40:43 pm

destroy them with lazers

Flinging the robot through the lasers on Bespin streets was pretty awesome. As were how easily you crushed the boss fights.

AdHoc

Edit history:

AdHoc: 2013-01-03 01:42:09 am

2013-01-03 01:41:50 am

It's hard to define a favourite part, as the run is entertaining until the end (which makes it especially good), but I like any part where there is extended fast bunnyhopping involved.

Speed is all this is about, isn't it Smiley

And in modern games, you can't "run" anymore, this is why I like it: going fast without giving a headache.

recon

2013-01-03 06:36:43 am

LotBlind- haha, nice one with that reborn.

gammadragon- thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately it seems that I can only spare one thermal detonator since I need all ten in the next level. That said, the particular segment can be improved, but it's just a hassle for me. I could switch to weapon 5, which would make me able to kill the turrets with less shots and thus in less time, but the weapon is slower to fire and it will require that I take quite some time practising the aim.

The segment also contains a very difficult jump after wiping out the turrets and the humanoids; it's to jump in between the roof and the rodian snipers at the door leading to the "control" room. It'd be a pain to fail this after doing good on the first part. I'm glad I even managed to make that jump in teh first place. You may call me lazy if you want to, but I think I'm going to skip improving this segment. Tongue

This way, future runners also have an opportunity of improving this run.

X- That part with pushing the robot through the lasers was completely unbelievable. I had not even planned that this happened, it just did. One in a million, if you ask me. I couldn't dream of ever trying to do that again. It's very much the segment I've watched the most times for pure enjoyment. In the run as a whole, it's as close as you get to perfection if you ask me, and it depended purely on luck.

AdHoc- I wouldn't dare run this game if it wasn't possible to do strafe jumping, so I see what you mean. Speed just makes things funnier to watch/play. This is why I'm never going to enjoy playing Jedi Academy, much less speedrun it.

On another note, I've improved the run so far by 9 seconds by utilizing one automatic save checkpoint and by improving segments in levels 5, 15 and 18. All the differences can be seen in this vid:

I've now reached a point where I'm somewhat tired of running and just want to submit the run asap, which I'll do unless I find something I easily can improve.

LotBlind- haha, nice one with that reborn.

gammadragon- thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately it seems that I can only spare one thermal detonator since I need all ten in the next level. That said, the particular segment can be improved, but it's just a hassle for me. I could switch to weapon 5, which would make me able to kill the turrets with less shots and thus in less time, but the weapon is slower to fire and it will require that I take quite some time practising the aim.

The segment also contains  a very difficult jump after wiping out the turrets and the humanoids; it's to jump in between the roof and the rodian snipers at the door leading to the "control" room. It'd be a pain to fail this after doing good on the first part. I'm glad I even managed to make that jump in teh first place. You may call me lazy if you want to, but I think I'm going to skip improving this segment. :P This way, future runners also have an opportunity of improving this run.

X- That part with pushing the robot through the lasers was completely unbelievable. I had not even planned that this happened, it just did. One in a million, if you ask me. I couldn't dream of ever trying to do that again. It's very much the segment I've watched the most times for pure enjoyment. In the run as a whole, it's as close as you get to perfection if you ask me, and it depended purely on luck.

AdHoc- I wouldn't dare run this game if it wasn't possible to do strafe jumping, so I see what you mean. Speed just makes things funnier to watch/play. This is why I'm never going to enjoy playing Jedi Academy, much less speedrun it.

On another note, I've improved the run so far by 9 seconds by utilizing one automatic save checkpoint and by improving segments in levels 5, 15 and 18. All the differences can be seen in this vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdJbwm1tfPA

I've now reached a point where I'm somewhat tired of running and just want to submit the run asap, which I'll do unless I find something I easily can improve.

LotBlind

2013-01-03 09:06:42 am

You're also well past the line where the run from a quality perspective becomes entirely un-un-acceptable. Any improvements now are the last few squirts of cream to create ornamental patterns on top of the cake. You know what extra marzipan figures you could create though to decorate the top? How about some kind of demonstration/blooper reel that shows how easy some of the harder tricks actually are to miss? For example the one with the droid and the lasers that got mentioned. Cause you know it's been such a while since I (and probably many others) played the game, and I doubt everyone gave that one a try. Smiley

honorableJay

2013-01-03 11:22:45 am

The Dork Knight himself.

Oh you can still strafejump in Jedi Academy, it just takes more work to pull off.

recon

Edit history:

recon: 2013-01-21 10:24:17 am

2013-01-21 10:18:01 am

LotBlind - haha, nice analogy, and thanks for the nice words Tongue

And as requested, bloopers:

Code:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJUvIJMQIbo

I called this one Deleted Scenes because it isn't just bloopers - it also contains some clips of me messing around, exploring etc. Keep in mind there's some video editing in it which I did mainly for fun, and I also added music. If you're not into this, worry not - If I am to make a bloopers file for my run if it gets accepted to SDA, I'll remake the video so it only includes bloopers and no editing/music.

honorableJay - I'd love to see that in a speedrun. Actually, I saw some JKA thread here on SDA and thought you had posted some really cool videos, so get at it! Would be great to see an update of the current JKA speedrun which just feels slow because there's no strafe jumping. I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to see a update on this.

Also, my final addition to the current speedrun is an improved last segment in 11th level, bespin_undercity, saving around 6.5 seconds. I had not thought I could save that much time at all in a single segment that already felt quite good, but with some faster jumping, a more efficient way of killing the two nade-holding npcs, and some more accurate force pulling + pushing of the R5 unit, it went way better than expected.

An exact comparison of this new segment and the old can be seen at

Code:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utLIe8QNSiM

I've also finally submitted the run - as in, I've sent an e-mail with the run details to puwexil. So I hope verification can begin soon.

edit: I've also joined the last two segments of the run into one by making a new last segment in the last level yavin_final. I only save like 1/4 of a second here, but it means that the number of segments in the run is now sub 100 -- now it's 99, hah.

LotBlind - haha, nice analogy, and thanks for the nice words :P

And as requested, bloopers:
[code]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJUvIJMQIbo[/code]
I called this one Deleted Scenes because it isn't just bloopers - it also contains some clips of me messing around, exploring etc. Keep in mind there's some video editing in it which I did mainly for fun, and I also added music. If you're not into this, worry not - If I am to make a bloopers file for my run if it gets accepted to SDA, I'll remake the video so it only includes bloopers and no editing/music.

honorableJay - I'd love to see that in a speedrun. Actually, I saw some JKA thread here on SDA and thought you had posted some really cool videos, so get at it! Would be great to see an update of the current JKA speedrun which just feels slow because there's no strafe jumping.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to see a update on this.

Also, my final addition to the current speedrun is an improved last segment in 11th level, bespin_undercity, saving around 6.5 seconds. I had not thought I could save that much time at all in a single segment that already felt quite good, but with some faster jumping, a more efficient way of killing the two nade-holding npcs, and some more accurate force pulling + pushing of the R5 unit, it went way better than expected.

An exact comparison of this new segment and the old can be seen at
[code]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utLIe8QNSiM[/code]

I've also finally submitted the run - as in, I've sent an e-mail with the run details to puwexil. So I hope verification can begin soon.

edit: I've also joined the last two segments of the run into one by making a new last segment in the last level yavin_final. I only save like 1/4 of a second here, but it means that the number of segments in the run is now sub 100 -- now it's 99, hah.