Jak and Daxter

2006-11-05 05:26:38 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I uploaded a test run of this about a year ago. Some people might remember. It was a single segment completion of the game.

Well now I've decided to attempt it again. I've already chosen my new route through the game, just now deciding the final things like which precursor orbs I should get, and which ones I can miss for the fastest time.

Over the past year I've found many little tricks and shortcuts which will be included, and also many that wouldn't have a place in a speedrun. I've uploaded a video of one that won't be in the run, but is a very interesting shortcut. This could come in handy if a way to cross the Lava Tube without 72 power cells is discovered.

Anyways, check it out:

Thread title:

Wheels

2006-11-05 07:02:48 am

I'm the keeper of Time.

Interesting glitch. How did you manage the swimming thing? you know, outswimming the fish/shark.

Jtrbf

2006-11-05 07:38:37 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

The fastest way to swim is by using the start of each stroke. That's where Jak moves the fastest. So you'll notice that I'm just tapping forward rather than holding it. Then it's not a matter of outswimming the shark, it's where you swim and stand.

You can stand here without attracting the lurker shark.

You can see here that I'm about to get eaten.

But if you are swimming the correct distance from the wall, it will reset the shark. If you're too close, or too far from the wall, you'll get eaten.

tenfoLd

Edit history:

tenfoLd: 2006-11-05 03:03:09 pm

2006-11-05 03:00:48 pm

WOW...nice find, that would definitely result in a faster time.
-edit: wait, won't be in your run? Why not?
-edit 2: Oh....nvm

Galactic

2006-11-05 03:31:34 pm

Quote:

This could come in handy if a way to cross the Lava Tube without 72 power cells is discovered.

It might well break the 'Out Of Bounds' rule.

What is your current collection plan?

Sniper_W.D.

2006-11-05 04:44:00 pm

Are you the guy who got somehting around 1h 57m? If so, I'd love to see you do a run of this game.

CannibalK9

Edit history:

CannibalK9: 2006-11-05 05:32:25 pm

2006-11-05 05:32:09 pm

give me your eyes!!!

That's an awesome trick, but it certainly violates the out of bounds rule.

I'm still eager to see a single-segment run of this game though, good luck with it! (Has it been a year already?)

Wheels

2006-11-05 08:10:20 pm

I'm the keeper of Time.

Another possibility is going through the levels in the area, leaving the lost precursor city for last. then, just swim over there like you normally would and you can get through without the "rock move" video. It should save a bit of time.

ZenicReverie

Edit history:

ZenicReverie: 2009-03-31 05:10:08 pm

2009-03-31 04:24:13 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

So, I'm thinking about trying to SS this game in-between segments of Vandal Hearts. I've made a few test runs and I think I'm at least able to match the current time although I haven't bothered to record a run yet. This includes some pauses for breaks and many deaths testing out some of the more hazardous parts. The trick will be to get a deathless SS in order to bump the current run. The only video I've found that shows some shortcuts appears to be posted on youtube by the OP.

I'll be using those as they're fairly easy to reproduce. I'm still trying to figure out how many orbs to collect and where I can skimp, so I find myself going a little out of the way to collect a bunch that might not be necessary. I wish the OP would get a run together though as he seems intimitely more familiar with the game, but after two years without word I'm going to take a shot at it. I'll start tomorrow and do an attempt a day. I'll post video of my routes to get feedback on it.

Here's an older topic by the same poster apparently: http://speeddemosarchive.com/forum/index.php/topic,2826.15.html
Although, not much in there is helpful since the old video is gone.

Specific time savers over the current run:
1) Turning off game hints (No annoying tutorial pauses, although turns off most of the color commentary by Jak as well)
2) Not backtracking through the swamp (If you continue past the last anchor there's a cave, which lets out next to the entrance, would save a good 5 minutes if not more)
3) Going into the Spider caves for the last few orbs instead of up the mountain skips the cutscene of going up the mountain.

Edit:

So, after re-reading the topic I said there isn't much helpful info in, I did notice that there were some points made about saving time. So, I'll address them in order:

1) I won't be talking to the warrior in rock village. He's right that it's not really worth the dialogue nor the orbs to get one power cell. As for fixing the bridge it's unnecessary as you can long jump and swim to the platforms before the shark eats you.
2) I won't be going to snowy mountain, so this won't apply to my run attempts. I will mention that I've never been able to do this, but the OP is better skilled at this game, so I wouldn't put it past him to get the timing of this just right.
3) After 30 minutes straight of attempting to jump from the Blue Sage's platform to the Yellow Sage's platform, I can't find how he did this either. As far as I can tell (I haven't timed it exactly) it would probably save about 5 minutes. If I could see a video of how it's done, then I'd have a better change of reproducing this.

So, I'm thinking about trying to SS this game in-between segments of Vandal Hearts.  I've made a few test runs and I think I'm at least able to match the current time although I haven't bothered to record a run yet.  This includes some pauses for breaks and many deaths testing out some of the more hazardous parts.  The trick will be to get a deathless SS in order to bump the current run.  The only video I've found that shows some shortcuts appears to be posted on youtube by the OP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xOtw6yXwE4

I'll be using those as they're fairly easy to reproduce.  I'm still trying to figure out how many orbs to collect and where I can skimp, so I find myself going a little out of the way to collect a bunch that might not be necessary.  I wish the OP would get a run together though as he seems intimitely more familiar with the game, but after two years without word I'm going to take a shot at it.  I'll start tomorrow and do an attempt a day.  I'll post video of my routes to get feedback on it.

Here's an older topic by the same poster apparently: http://speeddemosarchive.com/forum/index.php/topic,2826.15.html
Although, not much in there is helpful since the old video is gone.

Specific time savers over the current run:
1) Turning off game hints (No annoying tutorial pauses, although turns off most of the color commentary by Jak as well)
2) Not backtracking through the swamp (If you continue past the last anchor there's a cave, which lets out next to the entrance, would save a good 5 minutes if not more)
3) Going into the Spider caves for the last few orbs instead of up the mountain skips the cutscene of going up the mountain.

Edit:

So, after re-reading the topic I said there isn't much helpful info in, I did notice that there were some points made about saving time.  So, I'll address them in order:

1) I won't be talking to the warrior in rock village.  He's right that it's not really worth the dialogue nor the orbs to get one power cell.  As for fixing the bridge it's unnecessary as you can long jump and swim to the platforms before the shark eats you.
2) I won't be going to snowy mountain, so this won't apply to my run attempts.  I will mention that I've never been able to do this, but the OP is better skilled at this game, so I wouldn't put it past him to get the timing of this just right.
3) After 30 minutes straight of attempting to jump from the Blue Sage's platform to the Yellow Sage's platform, I can't find how he did this either.  As far as I can tell (I haven't timed it exactly) it would probably save about 5 minutes.  If I could see a video of how it's done, then I'd have a better change of reproducing this.

ZenicReverie

Edit history:

ZenicReverie: 2009-04-02 02:23:15 pm

2009-04-02 02:09:31 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

So I've recorded a sub-2hr, approximately 1:59:50. If the OP skipped the Yellow Sage's side like he says he can, then it's just about the same as the first time he quoted since it only takes me about 2 minutes to get to the Yellow Sage normally. There were still quite a few deaths in this run, notably 2 on Misty Island that set me back at least a full minute plus the lava boss once or twice, and a few places where I just messed up, again a notable example is in the Precursor basin where I fell off a platform at the end of the blue rings, which cost a minute and a half.

Fixing just those things would give me a time lower than 1:57:40. I'll take a few looks at the run and see where else I can optimize my route, checking for skippable things that I might be getting, especially the orbs. I'm going to continue my attempt a day through April, since it's only my second time I've run through the game, about 5 times total I've beaten the game.

I'm thinking it is quite possible to get the time down to 1:55:xx with my current route strategy, but we'll see what happens.

This is my current route:
Geyser Rock - all power cells
-- skip the blue vent by making it to the door before the blue eco runs out.
Sandover Village - herd the cattle then head to Jungle
Jungle - all power cells
-- fish game cell
-- hidden cell
-- island cell
-- align the first few lens
-- enter the citadel (skipping the bridge)
-- defeat the monster cell
-- scout fly cell
-- align the last two lens
Sandover Village - collect the first three scout flies and head to Misty Island
Misty Island - see youtube video for example of route
-- collect the muse
-- collect first 3 scout flies and jump up to the platform
-- jump off the bridge and spin back under to collect the power cell without fighting in the arena
-- get cannon power cell
-- jump on the mountain to collect the fourth scout fly
-- run down the mountain, collect the fifth, and up on the boat to get the power cell
-- run up the bridge to get the sixth fly
-- ride the jumper to get the 7th fly, collect the power cell in the air, and destroy the blimps for the cell
-- back to the blue eco to activate the platform to get the cell on the island
-- roll jump back towards the boat and sail away
Sandover Village - collect the next two scout flies and head to the beach
Sandover Beach - all power cells
-- activate the pelican, then collect the cell behind the antlion
-- head behind the windmill and drop down to get the second scout fly
-- go to the blue vent and jump over to the cannon to collect the power cell
-- use the cannon to blow up the pelican
-- back to the vent and jump to the (late) pelican's island to collect the power cell
-- collect the scout fly, power cell, and orbs on the three.. temples? the things with stairs...
-- to activate the falling rock sequence I need to scare the birds from each temple in order
-- use the blue vent once more to jump up and collect two more scout flies
-- clear the green vents to collect the power cell and grab the one that fell with the rocks
-- head towards the egg, collect a scout fly on the way, push the egg off and collect the power cell
-- get the last scout fly + power cell and head back to the village
Sandover Village - collect remaining power cells
-- return muse collect cell
-- speak to uncle and pay for power cell
-- collect scout fly in house next door
-- speak to mayor, pay mayor, and get last scout fly + 3 power cells
-- head over to the farmer to get his cell, then head to fire canyon
Fire Canyon - don't die, collect all orbs, collect all flies + 2 cells
Rock Village - activate blue sages gate (I've tried to skip this part, but then the bike doesn't transfer over, plus no flut flut)
-- collect first scout fly
Lost City - collect all except scout flies
-- enter the city and head directly to the next room
-- long jump the pit, long jump the lake, jump over the lake, high jump next to the scout fly (but don't collect, this is in the current video)
-- activate the cell in the tube then jump up the platforms to collect the cell
-- drop down to the tunnel and collect the cell in the middle
-- continue on towards the right and jump on each platform to collect another cell
-- backtrack and head to the right again, activate the platforms cross them to collect the cell
-- down the slide tube, head to the left, and down another slide tube
-- collect the power cell and race the dark eco up collecting another power cell
-- down the slide tube once more, eco vent, touch all the orbs
-- activate the percursor device and collect the orb on top
Rock Village - back to rock village crossing the platforms
-- collect four more flies while talking to the gambler and researcher to activate their quests in precursor basin
Precursor Basin - collect all orbs except the imps
-- get the moles back in their holes
-- complete the race faster than 45 seconds
-- go through all the pink rings and collect the orb
-- use green eco to get rid of the dark eco plants and collect the orb
-- race through the blue rings and collect the orb
-- make the jump to collect the orb
-- get the remaining scout flies and collect the orb
Rock Village - speak to the researcher, the gambler, and head to the swamp collecting the remaining flys
Swamp -- collect all orbs except for varmit shooting
-- shoot the containers for orbs and collect the first scout fly
-- collect yellow eco and shoot the rats and the anchor, collect the cell
-- next area is jumping from pole to pole and blast an anchor, collect the cell
-- get yellow eco, shoot more containers, collect a scout fly and backtrack to get more yellow eco and shoot the dark eco and the rock
-- jump into the arena and defeat all of the enemies, collect the power cell
-- jump out, get blue eco, jump into another place to blast another anchor and collect the cell
-- use flut flut to break open boxes, collect some scout flies and a power cell
-- pass some rats, blast some boxes and collect the last scout fly, collect a power cell
-- blast some dark eco boxes, blast the anchor, blast a rat nest, collect the power cell
-- head into the cave and blast everything else, then head back to the village
Rock Village - activate rock levitation and head to the boss
-- defeat boss and collect orb
Mountain Pass - don't die, beat the flyers, collect most orbs and all flies + 2 cells
Volcanic Crater - get first scout fly and activate red sage portal
-- here I need to count my orbs
-- 480 - buy four cells from the miners and one from the oracle
or
-- 510 - buy three cells from the miners and two from the oracle (this is faster)
or
-- 600 - buy four cells from the miners and two from the oracle skipping one cell in the Spider Cave (this is fastest)
-- collect more scout flies to those two places and on my way to the Spider Cave
Spider Cave - stick to the left avoiding spiders
-- collect the cell after swinging around
-- jump from the platform to the scaffolding and climb the rest of the robot to collect the power cell
-- head down the spider tunnel and collect the cell
-- head back and then climb to the left to the precursor platforms and collect the cell
-- jump to the yellow eco vent, shoot the spider that gets in my way and jump down
-- head back to the crater, then shoot the secret container and collect the power cell
Volcanic crater - ride the carts to the last scout fly and collect the cell, then enter the lava tube
Lava Tube - don't die, don't need anything else
Gol and Maia's Citadel - Yellow Sage, Blue Sage, Red Sage, Green Sage
Outside - Defeat giant robot
- collect two yellow eco, jump shoot 5 times, blue vent, jump
- collect yellow eco and start killing enemies while collecting two more, blue vent, jump
- collect two yellow eco and keep shooting while bombs explode (taking 1 - 2 damage), blue vent, jump, collect green eco
- dodge first shot, collect yellow eco an shoot, dodge second shot, collect rest of the yellow eco, shoot until dead (taking 1 more damage)
- collect white eco (end)

So I've recorded a sub-2hr, approximately 1:59:50.  If the OP skipped the Yellow Sage's side like he says he can, then it's just about the same as the first time he quoted since it only takes me about 2 minutes to get to the Yellow Sage normally.  There were still quite a few deaths in this run, notably 2 on Misty Island that set me back at least a full minute plus the lava boss once or twice, and a few places where I just messed up, again a notable example is in the Precursor basin where I fell off a platform at the end of the blue rings, which cost a minute and a half.

Fixing just those things would give me a time lower than 1:57:40.  I'll take a few looks at the run and see where else I can optimize my route, checking for skippable things that I might be getting, especially the orbs.  I'm going to continue my attempt a day through April, since it's only my second time I've run through the game, about 5 times total I've beaten the game.

I'm thinking it is quite possible to get the time down to 1:55:xx with my current route strategy, but we'll see what happens.

This is my current route:
Geyser Rock - all power cells
 -- skip the blue vent by making it to the door before the blue eco runs out.
Sandover Village - herd the cattle then head to Jungle
Jungle - all power cells
 -- fish game cell
 -- hidden cell
 -- island cell
 -- align the first few lens
 -- enter the citadel (skipping the bridge)
 -- defeat the monster cell
 -- scout fly cell
 -- align the last two lens
Sandover Village - collect the first three scout flies and head to Misty Island
Misty Island - see youtube video for example of route
 -- collect the muse
 -- collect first 3 scout flies and jump up to the platform
 -- jump off the bridge and spin back under to collect the power cell without fighting in the arena
 -- get cannon power cell
 -- jump on the mountain to collect the fourth scout fly
 -- run down the mountain, collect the fifth, and up on the boat to get the power cell
 -- run up the bridge to get the sixth fly
 -- ride the jumper to get the 7th fly, collect the power cell in the air, and destroy the blimps for the cell
 -- back to the blue eco to activate the platform to get the cell on the island
 -- roll jump back towards the boat and sail away
Sandover Village - collect the next two scout flies and head to the beach
Sandover Beach - all power cells
 -- activate the pelican, then collect the cell behind the antlion
 -- head behind the windmill and drop down to get the second scout fly
 -- go to the blue vent and jump over to the cannon to collect the power cell
 -- use the cannon to blow up the pelican
 -- back to the vent and jump to the (late) pelican's island to collect the power cell
 -- collect the scout fly, power cell, and orbs on the three.. temples? the things with stairs...
 -- to activate the falling rock sequence I need to scare the birds from each temple in order
 -- use the blue vent once more to jump up and collect two more scout flies
 -- clear the green vents to collect the power cell and grab the one that fell with the rocks
 -- head towards the egg, collect a scout fly on the way, push the egg off and collect the power cell
 -- get the last scout fly + power cell and head back to the village
Sandover Village - collect remaining power cells
 -- return muse collect cell
 -- speak to uncle and pay for power cell
 -- collect scout fly in house next door
 -- speak to mayor, pay mayor, and get last scout fly + 3 power cells
 -- head over to the farmer to get his cell, then head to fire canyon
Fire Canyon - don't die, collect all orbs, collect all flies + 2 cells
Rock Village - activate blue sages gate (I've tried to skip this part, but then the bike doesn't transfer over, plus no flut flut)
 -- collect first scout fly
Lost City - collect all except scout flies
 -- enter the city and head directly to the next room
 -- long jump the pit, long jump the lake, jump over the lake, high jump next to the scout fly (but don't collect, this is in the current video)
 -- activate the cell in the tube then jump up the platforms to collect the cell
 -- drop down to the tunnel and collect the cell in the middle
 -- continue on towards the right and jump on each platform to collect another cell
 -- backtrack and head to the right again, activate the platforms cross them to collect the cell
 -- down the slide tube, head to the left, and down another slide tube
 -- collect the power cell and race the dark eco up collecting another power cell
 -- down the slide tube once more, eco vent, touch all the orbs
 -- activate the percursor device and collect the orb on top
Rock Village - back to rock village crossing the platforms
 -- collect four more flies while talking to the gambler and researcher to activate their quests in precursor basin
Precursor Basin - collect all orbs except the imps
 -- get the moles back in their holes
 -- complete the race faster than 45 seconds
 -- go through all the pink rings and collect the orb
 -- use green eco to get rid of the dark eco plants and collect the orb
 -- race through the blue rings and collect the orb
 -- make the jump to collect the orb
 -- get the remaining scout flies and collect the orb
Rock Village - speak to the researcher, the gambler, and head to the swamp collecting the remaining flys
Swamp -- collect all orbs except for varmit shooting
 -- shoot the containers for orbs and collect the first scout fly
 -- collect yellow eco and shoot the rats and the anchor, collect the cell
 -- next area is jumping from pole to pole and blast an anchor, collect the cell
 -- get yellow eco, shoot more containers, collect a scout fly and backtrack to get more yellow eco and shoot the dark eco and the rock
 -- jump into the arena and defeat all of the enemies, collect the power cell
 -- jump out, get blue eco, jump into another place to blast another anchor and collect the cell
 -- use flut flut to break open boxes, collect some scout flies and a power cell
 -- pass some rats, blast some boxes and collect the last scout fly, collect a power cell
 -- blast some dark eco boxes, blast the anchor, blast a rat nest, collect the power cell
 -- head into the cave and blast everything else, then head back to the village
Rock Village - activate rock levitation and head to the boss
 -- defeat boss and collect orb
Mountain Pass - don't die, beat the flyers, collect most orbs and all flies + 2 cells
Volcanic Crater - get first scout fly and activate red sage portal
 -- here I need to count my orbs
 -- 480 - buy four cells from the miners and one from the oracle
 or
 -- 510 - buy three cells from the miners and two from the oracle (this is faster)
 or
 -- 600 - buy four cells from the miners and two from the oracle skipping one cell in the Spider Cave (this is fastest)
 -- collect more scout flies to those two places and on my way to the Spider Cave
Spider Cave - stick to the left avoiding spiders
 -- collect the cell after swinging around
 -- jump from the platform to the scaffolding and climb the rest of the robot to collect the power cell
 -- head down the spider tunnel and collect the cell
 -- head back and then climb to the left to the precursor platforms and collect the cell
 -- jump to the yellow eco vent, shoot the spider that gets in my way and jump down
 -- head back to the crater, then shoot the secret container and collect the power cell
Volcanic crater - ride the carts to the last scout fly and collect the cell, then enter the lava tube
Lava Tube - don't die, don't need anything else
Gol and Maia's Citadel - Yellow Sage, Blue Sage, Red Sage, Green Sage
Outside - Defeat giant robot
 - collect two yellow eco, jump shoot 5 times, blue vent, jump
 - collect yellow eco and start killing enemies while collecting two more, blue vent, jump
 - collect two yellow eco and keep shooting while bombs explode (taking 1 - 2 damage), blue vent, jump, collect green eco
 - dodge first shot, collect yellow eco an shoot, dodge second shot, collect rest of the yellow eco, shoot until dead (taking 1 more damage)
 - collect white eco (end)

Ghoti

2009-04-03 12:58:40 am

Currently occupying the grey area.

One Question, what's the difference between a legitimate OOB and one that isn't allowed?

ZenicReverie

2009-04-03 07:33:16 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

Quote from Ghoti:

One Question, what's the difference between a legitimate OOB and one that isn't allowed?

Not sure what you mean. I think it depends on how much of the game is skipped, I believe. I'm not using any OOB glitches, but aren't they all accepted by SDA now? Sorry if I didn't make that clear, but when I'm talking about using the route of the youtube video I'm refering to the one of Misty Island I posted.

Also, the OOB made by the OP seems like it would take just as long as back tracking to the lost city and gettting around the mountain as it would to get through the dialogue and up the mountain without glitching. Getting there early wouldn't help unless we could skip the Lava Tube somehow as well since you still need 72 cells for that. Taking the scenario even further, you could most likely skip the activation of both the blue and red sage's gates, which would save at least 15 minutes in cutscenes. In addition to that, the zoomer/jumper may not appear in the Mountain Pass may not appear if the Blue Sage's gate isn't activated; that isn't discussed in the youtube video. In any case, that would be a different categoy most likely if used.

[quote="Ghoti"]
One Question, what's the difference between a legitimate OOB and one that isn't allowed?
[/quote]

Not sure what you mean.  I think it depends on how much of the game is skipped, I believe.  I'm not using any OOB glitches, but aren't they all accepted by SDA now?  Sorry if I didn't make that clear, but when I'm talking about using the route of the youtube video I'm refering to the one of Misty Island I posted.

Also, the OOB made by the OP seems like it would take just as long as back tracking to the lost city and gettting around the mountain as it would to get through the dialogue and up the mountain without glitching.  Getting there early wouldn't help unless we could skip the Lava Tube somehow as well since you still need 72 cells for that.  Taking the scenario even further, you could most likely skip the activation of both the blue and red sage's gates, which would save at least 15 minutes in cutscenes.  In addition to that, the zoomer/jumper may not appear in the Mountain Pass may not appear if the Blue Sage's gate isn't activated; that isn't discussed in the youtube video.  In any case, that would be a different categoy most likely if used.

Peppyman

2009-04-05 04:24:20 am

This is one of my favourite games so I would welcome a single segment run! Grin

ZenicReverie

2009-04-05 06:13:37 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

Don't worry, it's coming. I'm definitely going to submit something, even if it has deaths. I may just segment it in order to get a deathless run though as the time on the current run can definitely come down. After all this I may even decide to segment a 100%. I think someone was talking about SS 100%, but that seems a little much for me. Maybe a segmented run will encourage that person to do the SS though.

Latest run is even better with a time of about 1:53:20, but it has 5 deaths. 2 are in the area of the first boss and only cost 25 seconds or so, but 3 are at the lava boss and cost a whopping 4 minutes. Probably not going to submit this run ever, as who wants to watch Jak die by lava 3 times, and the same boss fight retried for 4+ minutes.

So my new goal is a sub 1:50 run without deaths, although if it comes down to it, I think I'll settle for sub 1:52 with a death or two.

Ghoti

2009-04-06 01:17:03 am

Currently occupying the grey area.

I would definitely watch a 100% run.

mcbroiler

2009-04-06 01:23:52 am

Run, you pigeons. It's Robert Frost!

I would love to watch a run. I've been thinking of doing one for quite some time now, as the current run can be improved quite a bit. I just don't have the kind of time or planning abilities.

I have one question. Is Misty Island even necessary? It seems like the boat trip adds a ton of time.

ZenicReverie

Edit history:

ZenicReverie: 2009-04-06 08:42:26 am

2009-04-06 08:34:04 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

Quote from mcbroiler:

I would love to watch a run. I've been thinking of doing one for quite some time now, as the current run can be improved quite a bit. I just don't have the kind of time or planning abilities.

I have one question. Is Misty Island even necessary? It seems like the boat trip adds a ton of time.

It adds some time, but if not Misty Island, then where? I get 8 cells from Misty Island, and the only place I'm skipping is Snowy Mountain + cells that would need to be purchased with orbs. The trip to Misty Island one way is 23 seconds and the trip to Snowy Mountain one way is 33 seconds. Plus the cells from Misty Island take about 6 - 7 minutes to collect, while Snowy Mountain takes me about twice as long. There's also the point that you can't go to Snowy Mountain right away, as the pully tram is broken until some time has passed... I believe you have to go to the spider cave a back, so that would be a little back tracking, 5 - 10 seconds more?

I'll do my attempt for today in a little bit and then I'll list the cells that I'm skipping. With that we can go over which cells can be replaced with the ones I am getting.

[quote="mcbroiler"]
I would love to watch a run.  I've been thinking of doing one for quite some time now, as the current run can be improved quite a bit.  I just don't have the kind of time or planning abilities.

I have one question.  Is Misty Island even necessary?  It seems like the boat trip adds a ton of time.
[/quote]
It adds some time, but if not Misty Island, then where?  I get 8 cells from Misty Island, and the only place I'm skipping is Snowy Mountain + cells that would need to be purchased with orbs.  The trip to Misty Island one way is 23 seconds and the trip to Snowy Mountain one way is 33 seconds.  Plus the cells from Misty Island take about 6 - 7 minutes to collect, while Snowy Mountain takes me about twice as long.  There's also the point that you can't go to Snowy Mountain right away, as the pully tram is broken until some time has passed... I believe you have to go to the spider cave a back, so that would be a little back tracking, 5 - 10 seconds more?

I'll do my attempt for today in a little bit and then I'll list the cells that I'm skipping.  With that we can go over which cells can be replaced with the ones I am getting.

ZenicReverie

2009-04-06 09:17:37 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

Power Cells Skipped:
Sandover Village - x2 from Oracle; Reason - 120 orbs each
Rock Village - 1 from Warrior; Reason - 90 orbs + 3 minutes of cutscenes
Rock Village - x2 from Oracle; Reason - 120 orbs each
Lost City - 1 from 7 scout flies; Reason - the flies are so spread out in this level it doesn't make sense to collect them if I don't have to
Precursor Basin - 1 from flying lurkers; Reason - these guys take a while to catch, about 2 - 3 minutes for all three if I don't mess up and kind of boring to watch
Boggy Swamp - 1 from Protect Farthy's Snacks; Reason - I'm terrible at this shooting gallery game. Takes about 2 minutes if one doesn't miss. It's in the current run if don't know what I'm talking about.
Mountain Pass - 1 from Hidden Cell; Reason - requires a visit to the Snowy Mountain to turn on the yellow vent.
Snowy Mountain - All 8; Reason - requires two cutscenes of there and back that add about a minute. Most cells take more than 2 minutes to get.
Spider Cave - 1 from Shooting lurkers using the goggles; Reason - shooting + aiming is something I'm not good at. These guys are all around the room and you have to hit them twice. The second time they're moving faster, so it takes a good 3 minutes for me at minimum.
Spider Cave - 1 from Destory dark eco crystals; Reason - these are spread out all over the cavern and include a very difficult long jump that most likely results in death.
Spider Cave - 1 from Explore the dark cave; Reason - this one isn't actually too bad, but it requires jumping blindly in some places and there aren't any other cells nearby.
Spider Cave - 1 from 7 scout flies; Reason - there's one in the dark cave, which I'm not going into, plus a few others spread out over the rest of the level.

If anyone sees one of these as easier to get than one of the others I'm getting, then please speak up. I'll help out with any testing I can, and I've timed the current list of cells (not all individual ones, but most levels). The longest individual cell is the blue rings I believe that takes about 1:45.

Power Cells Skipped:
Sandover Village - x2 from Oracle; Reason - 120 orbs each
Rock Village - 1 from Warrior; Reason - 90 orbs + 3 minutes of cutscenes
Rock Village - x2 from Oracle; Reason - 120 orbs each
Lost City - 1 from 7 scout flies; Reason - the flies are so spread out in this level it doesn't make sense to collect them if I don't have to
Precursor Basin - 1 from flying lurkers; Reason - these guys take a while to catch, about 2 - 3 minutes for all three if I don't mess up and kind of boring to watch
Boggy Swamp - 1 from Protect Farthy's Snacks; Reason - I'm terrible at this shooting gallery game.  Takes about 2 minutes if one doesn't miss.  It's in the current run if don't know what I'm talking about.
Mountain Pass - 1 from Hidden Cell; Reason - requires a visit to the Snowy Mountain to turn on the yellow vent.
Snowy Mountain - All 8; Reason - requires two cutscenes of there and back that add about a minute.  Most cells take more than 2 minutes to get.
Spider Cave - 1 from Shooting lurkers using the goggles; Reason - shooting + aiming is something I'm not good at.  These guys are all around the room and you have to hit them twice.  The second time they're moving faster, so it takes a good 3 minutes for me at minimum.
Spider Cave - 1 from Destory dark eco crystals; Reason - these are spread out all over the cavern and include a very difficult long jump that most likely results in death.
Spider Cave - 1 from Explore the dark cave; Reason - this one isn't actually too bad, but it requires jumping blindly in some places and there aren't any other cells nearby.
Spider Cave - 1 from 7 scout flies; Reason - there's one in the dark cave, which I'm not going into, plus a few others spread out over the rest of the level.

If anyone sees one of these as easier to get than one of the others I'm getting, then please speak up.  I'll help out with any testing I can, and I've timed the current list of cells (not all individual ones, but most levels).  The longest individual cell is the blue rings I believe that takes about 1:45.

mcbroiler

2009-04-06 11:55:22 am

Run, you pigeons. It's Robert Frost!

You seem to have this very well planned out, and to be honest I haven't played this game in forever.

I might start it up again and try to help out more, but otherwise I'll just be rooting for you. A single segment would be great!

Ultimetalhead

2009-04-06 08:44:14 pm

Why so serious?

I think you need 53 power cells to get to snowy mountain, but since you're not going, it doesn't matter. Most of the cells you're skipping are definitely risky/time consuming, so your route seems optimal.

Also, if you need to know anything about the game, just ask me. I know this game like the back of my hand. Grin

ZenicReverie

2009-04-07 12:17:09 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

Yeah, do you know of any shortcuts? That would probably really help out. If you check out the youtube video made by jake, then you'll know the kind I'm thinking of. Of course, that's pretty much the only place it might be useful. Boggy Swamp and maybe Sentinel Beach are the only other places I can think of that might be hiding some.

NK3233

2009-04-07 01:23:20 am

It's-a me, Stalin!

If you were doing a segmented run, there's a glitchvthat lets you skip the last area, the citadel.

ZenicReverie

2009-04-07 07:10:30 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

Quote from JackT:

If you were doing a segmented run, there's a glitchvthat lets you skip the last area, the citadel.

I may be doing a segmented if I can't get a deathless SS. Do you have a video, or is it easy to explain?

NK3233

2009-04-07 09:13:40 am

It's-a me, Stalin!

Once you've seen the cutscene just before you go into the citadel, save and quit. When you load, you should be at the top of the citadel, where the boss is. Not sure if it'd be legit for a speedrun, however.

ZenicReverie

2009-04-07 12:40:12 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

Quote from JackT:

Once you've seen the cutscene just before you go into the citadel, save and quit. When you load, you should be at the top of the citadel, where the boss is. Not sure if it'd be legit for a speedrun, however.

Should be considered save warping I think. Probably can't be used for SS.

My latest time is about 1:52:50. It has like double the deaths of the previous best time, but the deaths aren't all clumped in one area like before.