Jackal NES low-% & any-% discussion

2010-07-24 11:14:16 am

berserker status

The thing about the huge tank boss is that it moves faster than you laterally. You have to take that into account when you're trying to outrun the turret. The only random aspect about the huge tank is that it sometimes changes directions while moving from side to side. That's why I said it's probably better to intentionally take a death here and then mash out the machine gun instead of wasting time dodging; you'd probably have to fire your machine gun the whole time as well to ensure you're causing some damage as you're dodging. I'd say that the machine gun is better in a low% run since it's really fast and just as powerful as the grenades if you mash fast enough. Getting redundant but you get the picture.

Edit: Since the huge tank moves faster than you, then that means it's better to move in the opposite direction of the boss and cross the turret's line of fire when you know he's going to catch you. I haven't played this game in awhile but I'll play it again and see if I can come up with anything else.

The thing about the huge tank boss is that it moves faster than you laterally.  You have to take that into account when you're trying to outrun the turret.  The only random aspect about the huge tank is that it sometimes changes directions while moving from side to side.  That's why I said it's probably better to intentionally take a death here and then mash out the machine gun instead of wasting time dodging; you'd probably have to fire your machine gun the whole time as well to ensure you're causing some damage as you're dodging.  I'd say that the machine gun is better in a low% run since it's really fast and just as powerful as the grenades if you mash fast enough.  Getting redundant but you get the picture.

Edit:  Since the huge tank moves faster than you, then that means it's better to move in the opposite direction of the boss and cross the turret's line of fire when you know he's going to catch you.  I haven't played this game in awhile but I'll play it again and see if I can come up with anything else.

MASTER-88

2010-07-24 11:18:55 am

Master-88

Quote:

I'd say that the machine gun is better in a low% run since it's really fast and just as powerful as the grenades if you mash fast enough. Getting redundant but you get the picture.

I already show fight machine gun only. Machine gun is much less effective than grenades.

But its working very well if you used grenades too. Machine gun is good friend assist your fight. But used machine gun only is much slower IMO. Wink

Riskbreaker Y

2010-07-24 11:26:06 am

berserker status

I never said that you should use machine gun fire only; it's obviously better to use both grenades and machine guns. Also, you're wrong. Machine guns are better. I'm sorry to say but you're mashing is pretty average. I can mash wayyy faster than your video and I don't consider myself to be elite when it comes to that. You dance around far away from the tank out of your machine gun range so of course it's gonna take forever to kill him. Just sayin', you're not the only one who plays Jackal. Wink

MASTER-88

2010-07-24 11:41:07 am

Master-88

Yes this video was played my emulator "keyboard used" and my firing speed is 3x faster with real NES controlls. Thats just not make it very realistic compared it.

But yes gun and grenades both are good used with same time. We both was right at it. Wink

Vugmer

2010-07-27 09:54:44 pm

Cigar Man

I tied MASTER-88's low% run tonight. I'm closing in.

Riskbreaker Y

2010-07-27 11:20:37 pm

berserker status

Awesum. I look forward to seeing a new run for this game. Also, are you going to go for an any% run with upgrades???

How about 100%? Naw I'm just kidding, fuck those POW's. YEAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!

Vugmer

2010-07-27 11:43:01 pm

Cigar Man

Yeah, I might try any% when I'm finished with low%. I'd want to get a faster time than Breakdown's 8:52 any% run on YouTube.

I wonder how many POWs there are. They're so hungry.

MASTER-88

2010-07-28 08:15:43 am

Master-88

Quote from Vugmer:

I tied MASTER-88's low% run tonight. I'm closing in.

Damn. Seems good.

Which is your goal in low-% run and any-% run?

Vugmer

2010-07-28 04:21:41 pm

Cigar Man

Quote from MASTER-88:

Quote from Vugmer:

I tied MASTER-88's low% run tonight. I'm closing in.

Damn. Seems good.

Which is your goal in low-% run and any-% run?

I don't have specific goal times.

ZenicReverie

2010-07-28 04:48:21 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

Quote from Vugmer:

Quote from MASTER-88:

Quote from Vugmer:

I tied MASTER-88's low% run tonight. I'm closing in.

Damn. Seems good.

Which is your goal in low-% run and any-% run?

I don't have specific goal times.

Goal = beat previous records Grin

low% and 100% are usually defined by the more permanent items/upgrades. One time use items are usually not considered. So, picking up the least amount of missiles in Super Metroid isn't an issue, it's the missile upgrades that are avoided. I don't have time to watch (rewatch) any of the Contra runs, but I'd compare the low% run of those games with this one. Are enemy clear items avoided in those? It's hard to tell how to define a category like this when the rules can vary between games.

DK28

2010-07-28 06:04:39 pm

General Kong - Bullets and Bananas

Quote from ZenicReverie:

I don't have time to watch (rewatch) any of the Contra runs, but I'd compare the low% run of those games with this one. Are enemy clear items avoided in those? It's hard to tell how to define a category like this when the rules can vary between games.

I can at least speak for the Contra games. Low% is no item pick-ups at all. Enemy clear and barrier (Invincibility) are both off limits.

Vugmer

2010-07-29 10:34:33 pm

Cigar Man

I just got a low% run in 8:35. I'm submitting this one.

jewyama, can we change the low% category to "no items" (instead of "no upgrades") so that it's a truer low%, like the low% category for the Contra games. For a "no upgrades" run, the runner could potentially pick up the extra-life item and then use that extra life to death-abuse rush the final boss, possibly saving time. There's also the kill-everything-on-the-screen item. I don't even know where this item is, but it could possibly be used to reduce lag and save time.

MASTER-88

Edit history:

MASTER-88: 2010-07-30 02:40:36 am

2010-07-30 02:15:34 am

Master-88

Huh thats seems superb. I can,t even imagine how well you did it. Wink

Quote:

jewyama, can we change the low% category to "no items" (instead of "no upgrades") so that it's a truer low%, like the low% category for the Contra games. For a "no upgrades" run, the runner could potentially pick up the extra-life item and then use that extra life to death-abuse rush the final boss, possibly saving time. There's also the kill-everything-on-the-screen item. I don't even know where this item is, but it could possibly be used to reduce lag and save time

Who care about 1 up. Im not think anymore death abuse save time. If you pick up 1 up or not what ever. You still got 1 ups when you collect enought points. Im not count extra life item. Im not absolutely banned it.

You still beat my run what ever you will obsoleted it, you should be happy with it ;). I´ll hate all new stupid rule changes with every games for example Metroid Prime. If we decide about rules then we have to play game with these rules, not changes these later. No upgrades/no items is same thing IMO. Extra life not help you play game faster and its might look super rough if you will die so many times even you can play quickly. Wink

Huh thats seems superb. I can,t even imagine how well you did it. ;)

[quote]jewyama, can we change the low% category to "no items" (instead of "no upgrades") so that it's a truer low%, like the low% category for the Contra games.  For a "no upgrades" run, the runner could potentially pick up the extra-life item and then use that extra life to death-abuse rush the final boss, possibly saving time.  There's also the kill-everything-on-the-screen item.  I don't even know where this item is, but it could possibly be used to reduce lag and save time[/quote]

Who care about 1 up. Im not think anymore death abuse save time. If you pick up 1 up or not what ever. You still got 1 ups when you collect enought points. Im not count extra life item. Im not absolutely banned it.

You still beat my run what ever you will obsoleted it, you should be happy with it ;). I´ll hate all new stupid rule changes with every games for example Metroid Prime. If we decide about rules then we have to play game with these rules, not changes these later. No upgrades/no items is same thing IMO. Extra life not help you play game faster and its might look super rough if you will die so many times even you can play quickly. ;)

MASTER-88

Edit history:

MASTER-88: 2010-08-01 12:55:00 pm

2010-08-01 12:38:35 pm

Master-88

Im jut pointed out new world record holder are Vgmr. Cheesy

He was just changed his account name thats cheat me. Tongue

Do you want post run in youtube? Im really interested see it. I might try redo it when i first see it. I personally can,t go under 8:45 in any theory. Maybe new stuffs/strategys are founded thats might give me more motvation go for sub 8:30, depend how perfect run this is.

Vugmer

2010-08-01 10:30:45 pm

Cigar Man

Quote from MASTER-88:

Do you want post run in youtube?

I'm not sure if I'll take the time to post the run on YouTube, but if I do, I'll post a link in this thread. Tomorrow, I'm going to mail the run on DVD to nate.

ZenicReverie

2010-08-02 12:49:21 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

Quote from MASTER-88:

You still beat my run what ever you will obsoleted it, you should be happy with it ;). I´ll hate all new stupid rule changes with every games for example Metroid Prime. If we decide about rules then we have to play game with these rules, not changes these later. No upgrades/no items is same thing IMO. Extra life not help you play game faster and its might look super rough if you will die so many times even you can play quickly. Wink

Rule changes are made to keep categories more consistent across games. Not all rules can be consistent the first time a decision is made.

Why would you rather see a quick/rash/poor decision stand just because it came first?

mikwuyma

2010-08-02 12:53:27 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Vugmer: I guess? I don't think changing the category makes much of a difference one way or another.

MASTER-88: Could you at least focus your rants in one thread instead of ranting every other thread? Roll Eyes

MASTER-88

2010-08-02 12:59:03 pm

Master-88

Yeah thats not matter is category no items or no upgrade. Thats same as.

What ever reason this run will obsoleted my own one. Wink

I mean i hate rule changes overall. Most i hate rule change Metroid Prime series. I just mean that overall. If we have to rules we have to used these rules and not changes rules later. Wink

I mean it everysingle games.

About Jackal thats same as no upgrades or no items. Not different about it. Wink

Quote:

MASTER-88: Could you at least focus your rants in one thread instead of ranting every other thread?

Yes i try, but that impossible sometimes. Roll Eyes

And actually im not rant. I just say my opinion. Wink

Vugmer

2010-08-08 02:12:31 am

Cigar Man

I'm going to do an any% run at some point. I'm going to rescue just one POW on the first stage, just to get the rockets. I don't need the four-way explosion. For the fourth boss (the paratrooper-dropping chopper), I'm going to use the same death-abuse method that I use in my low% run. I'll rescue a POW near the end of stage five to get the rockets back. I'd like to stream recording attempts if I get my capture card in the mail soon.

Riskbreaker Y

2010-08-08 11:24:17 am

berserker status

Really? You don't need the 4-way rockets? Yea you save a few secs. from saving less POWs but doesn't the added firepower help reduce lag and make some areas easier to clear out? Hell even having the two-way rockets goes a long way. There's that one area in the last level where you have to go up that conveyor belt and take out those stationary turrets that're really annoying if you don't destroy them fast; then again, i'm guessing you were able to get through that part with grenades only without any problems so maybe I'm overreacting.

But yea anyway, it's cool seeing that you're going to do the any% run and hopefully I'll be around to catch some Jackal action when you stream later.

Vugmer

2010-08-08 11:29:46 am

Cigar Man

I think the four-way explosion itself adds lag. And if I am fully upgraded, there are more enemies. From what I can tell, if I rescue just one POW and have just the rocket, the amount of enemies is the same as if I have just the grenades.

MASTER-88

2010-08-08 11:30:10 am

Master-88

Its actually faster beat first boss with four way rockets. Then tanks appeared into screen twice faster. Even you lost time collect rockets its will save time back with 1st boss. IIRC i timed it once, but time difference is still very minor.

Death abuse against helicopter seems fine enought. You can also collect power ups back in last level. There you find star item and got all power up back.

I already did test run with power ups 9:09. Just show some tips. Its played with death abuse too.

And i agree about lags. Maybe you not need pick up that star item in last level. Its might be good idea take only one rocket. But i thinking collect full rockets in first level is good idea. Its will save time with boss

Vugmer

2010-08-08 11:37:47 am

Cigar Man

Quote from MASTER-88:

Its actually faster beat first boss with four way rockets. Then tanks appeared into screen twice faster. Even you lost time collect rockets its will save time back with 1st boss. IIRC i timed it once, but time difference is still very minor.

Death abuse against helicopter seems fine enought. You can also collect power ups back in last level. There you find star item and got all power up back.

For the first boss, I think the final tank appears four seconds earlier if I'm fully upgraded. But when I timed the entire level using both methods (one method is rescuing just one POW, and the other method is rescuing three POWs), I would get the same time, give or take a second.

Is the power-up along the route, or would I have to waste time to obtain it? I don't think I'd want the four-way rockets, though, because they would probably cause a lot of lag during the final boss.

Riskbreaker Y

2010-08-08 11:45:02 am

berserker status

The power-up is along the way. It's @ 7:53 in Master-88's video he just posted. You lose a second or two getting it. And yea I never thought about the 4-way rockets causing additional lag; it makes sense.

MASTER-88

2010-08-08 11:48:45 am

Master-88

I agree with you. Thats might be faster with 1 way rocket than four way.

I also pointed out you can kill tanks and soldiers faster in Fortress fight and its might make some less lags here. Then taking four way rocket seems faster method because you can kill both tanks with one shot. But i think what ever method thats very minor time save/lost i think.

Its fact levels includes more enemys if you haved too much power ups. 1 way rockets seems fine way save time than four way rockets. At least lags are easier controll here.