I'm making a game and would love some alpha testers. Any takers?

HallaSurvivor

Edit history:

HallaSurvivor: 2015-08-17 09:05:44 pm

HallaSurvivor: 2015-08-14 05:45:50 pm

HallaSurvivor: 2015-08-14 05:35:54 pm

HallaSurvivor: 2015-08-13 11:06:16 pm

HallaSurvivor: 2015-08-12 10:39:12 pm

HallaSurvivor: 2015-07-13 03:47:15 pm

HallaSurvivor: 2015-07-13 03:47:14 pm

HallaSurvivor: 2015-07-13 10:36:13 am

2015-07-12 07:01:49 pm

Hello again! Some of you might remember me from a thread where I asked for help drafting this game, others probably don't.

Regardless, here I am with a windows build for MineEye, a 2D run and shoot game where you're falling down a mine... There will probably be some sort of story later.

Fair note, this is the first release. As far I can tell, there aren't any bugs, but it's still ugly aesthetically and it's still waiting on some features.
That said, what it does, it does well Smiley

Goal: Get to the end of the mine without being shot, standing on spikes, or running into ghosts and firebats Smiley

Instructions!
To run:
Windows

download the zip file at https://www.dropbox.com/s/9jet6350z58h83g/mineEye.zip?dl=1
extract it
run the aptly named run.exe

Mac/Linux

If you're on mac, the source code is at https://github.com/HallaSurvivor/mineEye
It's made for python 3.4, and requires the PyGame library. I'd build it myself, but unfortunately do not own a mac Sad

If you want me to compile it for linux, I can do that. It would take effort, but I can. Go ahead and ask if you want me to Smiley

To play!:
1. turn your volume down (working on it)
2. A/D = move left and right
3. W = jump
4. S = pickup a weapon
5. Space = Throw bomb
6. Left Click = use weapon

TODO:

volume control that's better than on/off
sound effects
more weapons/rooms/enemies
maybe items? (health boost, etc.)

Bugs you've helped me fix so far Smiley

back button on compiled software
world generation when moving left
clicking buttons in menus
changing binds
momentum canceling on hitting ceiling
kererror when going backwards in menus
almost no fall damage
game timer between loops
fixed the on/off so beeps should only happen when SFX are on
fixed the binds screen to not show on before the names

Changelog

Aug 17, 2015

buffed bombs
added melee range circle to screen
fixed bugs

Aug 14, 2015

gave bombs a damage falloff
made pause button rebindable
made timer loop properly
added sfx for:
attacks
firebird death
menu selections
changed max fps to 120
made weapons stop impacting ghosts
added ghostslayer which CAN impact ghosts
fixed a bug involving moving backwards through menus without a back option
lowered activation range on FireBats

Aug 13, 2015

Added replays
bombs don't damage players
fall damage buffed
Added upgrades
Added looping
Removed multiple heroes

Thanks to all who try this! I'll take feedback here, as well as at HallaSurvivor@gmail.com
It means a lot Smiley

Thread title:

Hello again! Some of you might remember me from a thread where I asked for help drafting this game, others probably don't.

Regardless, here I am with a windows build for MineEye, a 2D run and shoot game where you're falling down a mine... There will probably be some sort of story later.

Fair note, this is the first release. As far I can tell, there aren't any bugs, but it's still ugly aesthetically and it's still waiting on some features. 
That said, what it does, it does well :)

Goal: Get to the end of the mine without being shot, standing on spikes, or running into ghosts and firebats :)

Instructions!
To run:
Windows
[hidden]download the zip file at https://www.dropbox.com/s/9jet6350z58h83g/mineEye.zip?dl=1
extract it
run the aptly named run.exe
[/hidden]

Mac/Linux
[hidden]
If you're on mac, the source code is at https://github.com/HallaSurvivor/mineEye
It's made for python 3.4, and requires the PyGame library. I'd build it myself, but unfortunately do not own a mac :(

If you want me to compile it for linux, I can do that. It would take effort, but I can. Go ahead and ask if you want me to :)
[/hidden]

To play!:
1. turn your volume down (working on it)
2. A/D = move left and right
3. W = jump
4. S = pickup a weapon
5. Space = Throw bomb
6. Left Click = use weapon

TODO:
[hidden]
volume control that's better than on/off
sound effects
more weapons/rooms/enemies
maybe items? (health boost, etc.)
[/hidden]

Bugs you've helped me fix so far :)
[hidden]
back button on compiled software
world generation when moving left
clicking buttons in menus
changing binds
momentum canceling on hitting ceiling
kererror when going backwards in menus
almost no fall damage
game timer between loops
fixed the on/off so beeps should only happen when SFX are on
fixed the binds screen to not show on before the names
[/hidden]

Changelog
[hidden]
Aug 17, 2015
[hidden]
buffed bombs
added melee range circle to screen
fixed bugs
[/hidden]
Aug 14, 2015
[hidden]
gave bombs a damage falloff
made pause button rebindable
made timer loop properly
added sfx for:
    attacks
    firebird death
    menu selections
changed max fps to 120
made weapons stop impacting ghosts
added ghostslayer which CAN impact ghosts
fixed a bug involving moving backwards through menus without a back option
lowered activation range on FireBats
[/hidden]

Aug 13, 2015
[hidden]
Added replays
bombs don't damage players
fall damage buffed
Added upgrades
Added looping
Removed multiple heroes
[/hidden]

[/hidden]

Thanks to all who try this! I'll take feedback here, as well as at HallaSurvivor@gmail.com
It means a lot :)

Red_Buddha

Edit history:

Red_Buddha: 2015-07-12 09:09:27 pm

Red_Buddha: 2015-07-12 09:02:28 pm

2015-07-12 09:01:35 pm

Well, first thing the back button in general doesn't work.

also this

HallaSurvivor

Edit history:

HallaSurvivor: 2015-07-13 10:35:11 am

2015-07-13 10:31:19 am

Thanks. I'll figure out the back button problem right now. It works fine on my computer...

As for that, yeah, world generation will do something like that pretty infrequently. I'm working on a solve. Thanks for playing, though! Smiley

(also, would you mind showing me the seed that created that world?)

edit: Just fixed the back button issue. Edited the OP.

Red_Buddha

2015-07-13 11:56:17 am

524430339 was the seed

HallaSurvivor

2015-07-13 03:46:33 pm

Thanks. I figured out what was causing that issue as well. Shouldn't happen again Smiley

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2015-07-28 07:52:22 pm

2015-07-28 07:42:16 pm

-Game does not get in focus after window is created.
-When you click on the menu screen far away from the buttons it seems to still select options. So limiting the size so you have an area you can click if you want to refocus on the game.
-Guy's hitbox is too wide or perhaps platforms have that. You're clearly hanging in the air at the edge.
-When you jump and hit the ceiling it doesn't cancel your upwards momentum.
-I like it how (probably incidentally) the ghost seems to pop up from behind things a lot. Maybe you should make it always spawn inside things so it's a surprise?
-I don't get how weapons work, left-clicking does nothing. Bombs do work though.
-I pressed space twice quickly and the game unfocused and softlocked.

-Why should there be a story? I already see a kind of unique and intuitive idea if you make the player run through the same thing over and over but increasing the number of obstacles etc. This reminds me of old space sims (Tie Fighter) that had a looping training course where every loop adds more... well obstacles and turrets and things so it goes from easy to very hard with the same exact geometry. There is even a justification for making the early loops be kinda boring because this is the time the player is allowed (mercy time) to get used to the layout, which means they're actually already engaged.

How could a story possibly enhance that? Or a final boss? People have this idea that a game NEEDS to have certain elements. And so their game ends up like everyone else's.

I see the game actually has an end and you're giving the player their finish time. Seems there's going to be a huge number of seeds so the game encourages you to try a new one each time. Currently, unless you mean to add in more physics and moves and stuff, it's not very interesting to speed run and so I'm not sure why I'd care about my time. Can you even have both? Even Minecraft (with seeds) is a very niche speedrunning game compared to what it is otherwise. It's far more complex obviously so there's a point at which it becomes interesting to see how the best seeds would look like and what the ideal execution looks like. Your game (because it's less ambitious) I can't instantly see ever having that. So this is why I wouldn't try to emphasize that at all unless you have some plans that aren't currently apparent.

The second thing is if I wanted to be as quick as possible, as it stands, I wouldn't tend to go out of my way for any of the weapons just trying to luck it out. Also I'd always choose the one fast class. I'm not sure if I'd make there be character types in the first place because this feels like a game that needs to focus on one thing and do it really well. It might not make you a better programmer but it sure will make you a better game designer, which is what you're learning to program FOR isn't it?

Another piece of game design advice: try to make elements in the game as dynamic as possible. For example, you could make bats hurt you other than if you can hop on top of them, in which case you could maybe use them as a platform or to ride them. The ghosts: maybe you can shoot them, but if you do, the next round is going to have two where there was one, or maybe if you lure them to come with you, they won't be spawned further down so you can get past that difficult bit.

I might make the rooms more roomy so there's a bit more room for dodging. Whenever there's just one square to fall through and a monster happens to be there there's not much you can do. How about letting the player break walls, e.g. so it regens the whole time.

Anyway good luck with this! Despite having opinions and (I'd like to think) some insight on game design, I haven't actually made one so you're going to be one ahead in those if you keep going with your project!

EDIT: Some more thoughts:
-make further repetitions of the level reflect on what happened with earlier ones: if you destroyed stuff on an earlier level, it also removes it from further down. This means the level would slowly gain a new shape, which, on some level is a cool counterpoint to the repetition idea.

-Game does not get in focus after window is created.
-When you click on the menu screen far away from the buttons it seems to still select options. So limiting the size so you have an area you can click if you want to refocus on the game.
-Guy's hitbox is too wide or perhaps platforms have that. You're clearly hanging in the air at the edge.
-When you jump and hit the ceiling it doesn't cancel your upwards momentum.
-I like it how (probably incidentally) the ghost seems to pop up from behind things a lot. Maybe you should make it always spawn inside things so it's a surprise?
-I don't get how weapons work, left-clicking does nothing. Bombs do work though.
-I pressed space twice quickly and the game unfocused and softlocked.

-Why should there be a story? I already see a kind of unique and intuitive idea if you make the player run through the same thing over and over but increasing the number of obstacles etc. This reminds me of old space sims (Tie Fighter) that had a looping training course where every loop adds more... well obstacles and turrets and things so it goes from easy to very hard with the same exact geometry. There is even a justification for making the early loops be kinda boring because this is the time the player is allowed (mercy time) to get used to the layout, which means they're actually already engaged.

How could a story possibly enhance that? Or a final boss? People have this idea that a game NEEDS to have certain elements. And so their game ends up like everyone else's.

I see the game actually has an end and you're giving the player their finish time. Seems there's going to be a huge number of seeds so the game encourages you to try a new one each time. Currently, unless you mean to add in more physics and moves and stuff, it's not very interesting to speed run and so I'm not sure why I'd care about my time. Can you even have both? Even Minecraft (with seeds) is a very niche speedrunning game compared to what it is otherwise. It's far more complex obviously so there's a point at which it becomes interesting to see how the best seeds would look like and what the ideal execution looks like. Your game (because it's less ambitious) I can't instantly see ever having that. So this is why I wouldn't try to emphasize that at all unless you have some plans that aren't currently apparent.

The second thing is if I wanted to be as quick as possible, as it stands, I wouldn't tend to go out of my way for any of the weapons just trying to luck it out. Also I'd always choose the one fast class. I'm not sure if I'd make there be character types in the first place because this feels like a game that needs to focus on one thing and do it really well. It might not make you a better programmer but it sure will make you a better game designer, which is what you're learning to program FOR isn't it?

Another piece of game design advice: try to make elements in the game as dynamic as possible. For example, you could make bats hurt you other than if you can hop on top of them, in which case you could maybe use them as a platform or to ride them. The ghosts: maybe you can shoot them, but if you do, the next round is going to have two where there was one, or maybe if you lure them to come with you, they won't be spawned further down so you can get past that difficult bit.

I might make the rooms more roomy so there's a bit more room for dodging. Whenever there's just one square to fall through and a monster happens to be there there's not much you can do. How about letting the player break walls, e.g. so it regens the whole time.

Anyway good luck with this! Despite having opinions and (I'd like to think) some insight on game design, I haven't actually made one so you're going to be one ahead in those if you keep going with your project!

EDIT: Some more thoughts:
-make further repetitions of the level reflect on what happened with earlier ones: if you destroyed stuff on an earlier level, it also removes it from further down. This means the level would slowly gain a new shape, which, on some level is a cool counterpoint to the repetition idea.

Vibex

2015-07-28 08:03:59 pm

First off, I'm an aspiring game dev as well. Always fun to play test things.

They game seems fairly imbalanced at this point. There was never a run were I couldn't just force my way past enemies. They were pretty inconsequential. I think there should be some knockback so that they disrupt the flow of running. This would make me try to avoid them more. Also the "Jumpy" character seems to be overpowered in this current build. He's just so much better at getting past the level obstacles.

As for the story I agree with LotBlind, it doesn't really need one. The time at the end is enough of a reward.

HallaSurvivor

Edit history:

HallaSurvivor: 2015-07-28 10:25:20 pm

2015-07-28 10:15:22 pm

LotBlind: Thanks a lot for your input! It was incredibly detailed and that means a lot to me Smiley

What do you mean by "game does not get in focus", exactly? I could probably fix it if I better understood the problem.
I forget how I'm handling clicking in menus, but I'll look into it. (EDIT: fixed the menu thing too)
Fixed the ceiling thing Smiley

The ghost is intentionally drawn before the walls so that it appears from behind them, as ghosts do. As it stands they'll always spawn in the same spot, but I'll see what I can do.
If you're holding weapon 1, it'll take two clicks to kill. If you're holding weapon 2, it'll take one... Other than that, they work on my end still.
Hm... I'll look into the double space, that's interesting.

Well argued. I like the idea of looping the same world with increasing difficulty. It shouldn't be too too difficult to implement either. Thank you Smiley

Seeds were added so that different speedrunners could help eliminate the randomness inherent in the world generation. I'm not planning to add more physics, but I am planning to add more rooms, enemies, and weapons. I'm also considering making items a thing (slow down time, increase health, run faster, etc.).

The goal is to add more enemies to the point where you need to use weapons to not die. I'll admit, though, I'm partial to Speedy too... maybe I'll get rid of the other two after all. I've been considering it for a while, but wanted to add variety

but that's Haaa-aaaard Tongue

Point taken, though. Riding firebats would be nigh impossible to code, but I'll start thinking about other cool things I could do, and if you have other ideas, please feel free to share Smiley

The tight rooms were to force you to use your weapons to not die. Also, the rubble is breakable with bombs, but I'll look into adding more rooms that use rubble better than a few staircases.

Thank you so much on the luck! And particular thank you on the game design tips Smiley

I consider myself a pretty good programmer, but I'm a pretty shoddy designer. I don't know what to do that would be cool, and you've given me a lot of ideas, so thank you for that!

Vibex:
Knockback could be really interesting. I'll see what I can do.
I think it's interesting you find Jumpy overpowered. I honestly thought that he was the weakest of the three, haha. If I listen to LotBlind, though, he'll be removed anyways, so...

Thank you both for commenting! It means a lot, and helps more than you probably know Smiley

LotBlind: Thanks a lot for your input! It was incredibly detailed and that means a lot to me :)

What do you mean by "game does not get in focus", exactly? I could probably fix it if I better understood the problem.
I forget how I'm handling clicking in menus, but I'll look into it. (EDIT: fixed the menu thing too)
Fixed the ceiling thing :)
The ghost is intentionally drawn before the walls so that it appears from behind them, as ghosts do. As it stands they'll always spawn in the same spot, but I'll see what I can do.
If you're holding weapon 1, it'll take two clicks to kill. If you're holding weapon 2, it'll take one... Other than that, they work on my end still. 
Hm... I'll look into the double space, that's interesting.

Well argued. I like the idea of looping the same world with increasing difficulty. It shouldn't be too too difficult to implement either. Thank you :)

Seeds were added so that different speedrunners could help eliminate the randomness inherent in the world generation. I'm not planning to add more physics, but I am planning to add more rooms, enemies, and weapons. I'm also considering making items a thing (slow down time, increase health, run faster, etc.).

The goal is to add more enemies to the point where you need to use weapons to not die. I'll admit, though, I'm partial to Speedy too... maybe I'll get rid of the other two after all. I've been considering it for a while, but wanted to add variety

but that's Haaa-aaaard :P 
Point taken, though. Riding firebats would be nigh impossible to code, but I'll start thinking about other cool things I could do, and if you have other ideas, please feel free to share :)

The tight rooms were to force you to use your weapons to not die. Also, the rubble is breakable with bombs, but I'll look into adding more rooms that use rubble better than a few staircases.

Thank you so much on the luck! And particular thank you on the game design tips :) I consider myself a pretty good programmer, but I'm a pretty shoddy designer. I don't know what to do that would be cool, and you've given me a lot of ideas, so thank you for that!

Vibex:
Knockback could be really interesting. I'll see what I can do. 
I think it's interesting you find Jumpy overpowered. I honestly thought that he was the weakest of the three, haha. If I listen to LotBlind, though, he'll be removed anyways, so...

Thank you both for commenting! It means a lot, and helps more than you probably know :)

LotBlind

2015-07-29 05:28:58 pm

Okay I see now that the gun DOES work, I was just highly confused with it having no graphical effect and also by the way you have to aim directly at the thing you're shooting instead of it being like in the old DOS game Abuse ('95) for lack of a better comparison, where only the direction you're firing is affected by your mouse, not the exact spot y. I'm also only able to shoot the bats, not the "bad guys" (mountains??). Looks like I CAN shoot ghosts which goes against video game conventions since time immemorial. I suggest leaving that out.

I can see knockback immediately breaking the game if there's no way to guarantee monsters won't just appear in places that make them unavoidable (unless it also destroys the monster). Or if you have to wait for them to move, doing speedruns becomes pointless. I still don't get the speedrun idea in general when it's so simplistic AND the seeds are random. That's not likely to draw me in for that. At least you'd have to have the same seeds for everyone in a special speedrun mode.

Well since you liked my ideas, here's some more but in the end you just have to test stuff and look for a combination that produces the best gameplay somehow. This can be measured in words like dynamics/interplay/depth/balancing... and your ability to judge when there's a problem is always just an answer to the question "how could I make this more fun to play?". Fixing bugs is an obvious way but part of the same paradigm.
- maybe try making the game play faster with each passing loop. This will probably generate a pretty humorous effect after a while. (what made space invaders essentially, imagine how boring that game would have been without it)
- I wouldn't make the bombs hurt the player because this limits the ways in which they can use them. Also being able to aim them (like you're able to aim the guns) makes them more interesting and adds depth since it's a skill-based event which always requires a bit of concentration to get right.
- Create boxes around menu options to show where the clickable area ends.
- to be clear I meant looping the same world ad infinitum and making the idea only survival (measured in depth reached): this banks on the game eventually becoming arbitrarily difficult so you can never feel like you're just getting bored
- even if you don't want to add a lot more complexity to the game (like the breakable walls that I suggested), how about adding another dynamic by making the gun also capable of breaking a block at a time? This means you're deciding between saving it for a fight and saving it for a shortcut, avoiding the fight.
- mouse selecting the option doesn't work in the keybinds menu
- picking up weapons is weird: the range is bigger than it probably needs to be and the place where your current weapon gets dropped is handled in a strange way that makes them glitch up platforms and stuff.

Bug:
Game crashes upon making any change to key binds

This shows you what it looks like after I start the game:

This may have to do with how your game makes the midi synthesizer load up. I have an external midi synth as default in my Win 8.1 and it launches it every time I fire the game up. If it's not that I have no more clues. Looks like it only launches it for a second then instantly closes it again.

Keep updating the files and I'll give it another go later!

Okay I see now that the gun DOES work, I was just highly confused with it having no graphical effect and also by the way you have to aim directly at the thing you're shooting instead of it being like in the old DOS game Abuse ('95) for lack of a better comparison, where only the direction you're firing is affected by your mouse, not the exact spot y. I'm also only able to shoot the bats, not the "bad guys" (mountains??). Looks like I CAN shoot ghosts which goes against video game conventions since time immemorial. I suggest leaving that out.

I can see knockback immediately breaking the game if there's no way to guarantee monsters won't just appear in places that make them unavoidable (unless it also destroys the monster). Or if you have to wait for them to move, doing speedruns becomes pointless. I still don't get the speedrun idea in general when it's so simplistic AND the seeds are random. That's not likely to draw me in for that. At least you'd have to have the same seeds for everyone in a special speedrun mode.

Well since you liked my ideas, here's some more but in the end you just have to test stuff and look for a combination that produces the best gameplay somehow. This can be measured in words like dynamics/interplay/depth/balancing... and your ability to judge when there's a problem is always just an answer to the question "how could I make this more fun to play?". Fixing bugs is an obvious way but part of the same paradigm.
-  maybe try making the game play faster with each passing loop. This will probably generate a pretty humorous effect after a while. (what made space invaders essentially, imagine how boring that game would have been without it)
- I wouldn't make the bombs hurt the player because this limits the ways in which they can use them. Also being able to aim them (like you're able to aim the guns) makes them more interesting and adds depth since it's a skill-based event which always requires a bit of concentration to get right.
- Create boxes around menu options to show where the clickable area ends.
- to be clear I meant looping the same world ad infinitum and making the idea only survival (measured in depth reached): this banks on the game eventually becoming arbitrarily difficult so you can never feel like you're just getting bored
- even if you don't want to add a lot more complexity to the game (like the breakable walls that I suggested), how about adding another dynamic by making the gun also capable of breaking a block at a time? This means you're deciding between saving it for a fight and saving it for a shortcut, avoiding the fight.
- mouse selecting the option doesn't work in the keybinds menu
- picking up weapons is weird: the range is bigger than it probably needs to be and the place where your current weapon gets dropped is handled in a strange way that makes them glitch up platforms and stuff.

Bug:
Game crashes upon making any change to key binds
[hidden][img]http://i.imgur.com/757Jcd0.png[/img][/hidden]

This shows you what it looks like after I start the game:
[hidden][img]http://i.imgur.com/KSCfRBr.png[/img][/hidden]

This may have to do with how your game makes the midi synthesizer load up. I have an external midi synth as default in my Win 8.1 and it launches it every time I fire the game up. If it's not that I have no more clues. Looks like it only launches it for a second then instantly closes it again.

Keep updating the files and I'll give it another go later!

HallaSurvivor

2015-08-10 02:25:30 am

Thanks again for all your input, LotBlind!

I just took a quick vacation, but I started up again and made some progress.

Replays now work. Unfortunately, they don't work in fullscreen for some reason, so I've disabled that for now.
I also know that there's no back button in the Replay menu, the existing back button setup broke lots of things in that menu, I'm working on a new one now.

It looks like the midi synth is probably the issue there. I'll look into an exception, but unfortunately, I don't have one, so there's not much testing I can do on my end in between releases :/

As for the keybind crashing, I'm fairly sure I know what the issue there is. I'll fix it tomorrow Smiley

Thanks again for all the suggestions and encouragement, it means a lot!

HallaSurvivor

2015-08-12 10:35:23 pm

Alright, keybinds were more broken than I thought, haha. Luckily, it's fixed now Smiley

This is a pretty major update, too:

Only one hero, now, Speedy.
You can loop the world up to 5 times
There are 3 upgrades you can get during those 5 times (I'll be adding more soon, unfortunately you can't get any more than once.)
Bombs don't damage the player
But fall damage does (this MIGHT need to be nerfed)
Killing 4 enemies will give you an extra bomb (unless you have the bomb upgrade, in which case killing ONE will get you an extra bomb)
Made replays work Cheesy

unfortunately, atm you can't pause etc. inside of a replay

Hope you all enjoy! Thanks for keeping me inspired!

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2015-08-13 02:57:42 pm

2015-08-13 02:55:09 pm

Okay, took a look!

Most important thing - could you make the shooting show visually? It's very confusing with no feedback at all at current and might help debugging too. The game giving more feedback on stuff like how much damage is being dealt, how much the power-ups actually increase your attack power and such would make it easier to understand and test them for sure.

-can you make esc also return a step in the menus? The principle (as I've noticed before) is that you can perform all menu actions either with the keyboard or with mouse without needing the other.
-can't bind stuff on shift, ctrl or tab
- I can't get the "2" weapon to do anything, only the "1" one
- I noticed you can shoot volcanos when the bat is on top of it... If you mean them to be invulnerable otherwise seems like one of those features you just keep, honestly. EDIT: oh wait I can shoot volcanoes too, but it's reeeaallly inconsistent. I have no idea what their hitbox is meant to be like. I also sometimes shoot two at once (on alternate sides of an entrance... yes they disappeared at the same exact time on one shot)
- the musics (both) just stop after a while without looping; on the other hand can you make it loop between... well, loops after getting power-ups?
- can still shoot ghosts... intended?
-also other stuff I mentioned in previous post still applies (I'm sure you know so I won't list them)
- maybe making the player have limited ammo that replenishes when collecting weapons so there's some reason to go for chests. I can't see the
- I don't mind fall damage because it gives a purpose to random ledges and it's a bit of an execution thing to just grab the ledge and keep falling. With the double jump there's also tricks (more on that down below) that arise from this mechanic. As it stands if you make it so health carries over into each loop, I think this game suddenly makes sense for speedrunning, because you now have a constant speed/damage dynamic where the fastest run is also the riskiest.
-in-game clock behaves... strange
-same power-up is selectable between loops

I really like the way you get more power-ups with each loop! I think the health (bombs and weps) should be preserved from the previous loop though. Double jumping in some games allows you to jump once after falling off a ledge, which does make it more versatile. I don't know what most gamers expect, that's what it does in I Wanna Be the Guy and Rogue Legacy. This would make sense because you could then also use it to avoid some fall damage. On the other hand I just realized there's a pretty cool trick where you can do what I just said by just jumping before falling off a ledge... so leaving it like this isn't that bad maybe. Yeah, I'm seeing all kinds of little optimizations that you can do by jumping at the right time so you just fall past the edge and still have the second jump.

I think I looped the world more than 5 times.

Bug:

Occurs when going into replays menu and hitting the selection called "enter" (the only one)

Okay, took a look!

Most important thing - could you make the shooting show visually? It's very confusing with no feedback at all at current and might help debugging too. The game giving more feedback on stuff like how much damage is being dealt, how much the power-ups actually increase your attack power and such would make it easier to understand and test them for sure.

-can you make esc also return a step in the menus? The principle (as I've noticed before) is that you can perform all menu actions either with the keyboard or with mouse without needing the other.
-can't bind stuff on shift, ctrl or tab
- I can't get the "2" weapon to do anything, only the "1" one
- I noticed you can shoot volcanos when the bat is on top of it... If you mean them to be invulnerable otherwise seems like one of those features you just keep, honestly. EDIT: oh wait I can shoot volcanoes too, but it's reeeaallly inconsistent. I have no idea what their hitbox is meant to be like. I also sometimes shoot two at once (on alternate sides of an entrance... yes they disappeared at the same exact time on one shot)
- the musics (both) just stop after a while without looping; on the other hand can you make it loop between... well, loops after getting power-ups?
- can still shoot ghosts... intended?
-also other stuff I mentioned in previous post still applies (I'm sure you know so I won't list them)
- maybe making the player have limited ammo that replenishes when collecting weapons so there's some reason to go for chests. I can't see the 
- I don't mind fall damage because it gives a purpose to random ledges and it's a bit of an execution thing to just grab the ledge and keep falling. With the double jump there's also tricks (more on that down below) that arise from this mechanic. As it stands if you make it so health carries over into each loop, I think this game suddenly makes sense for speedrunning, because you now have a constant speed/damage dynamic where the fastest run is also the riskiest.
-in-game clock behaves... strange
-same power-up is selectable between loops

I really like the way you get more power-ups with each loop! I think the health (bombs and weps) should be preserved from the previous loop though. Double jumping in some games allows you to jump once after falling off a ledge, which does make it more versatile. I don't know what most gamers expect, that's what it does in I Wanna Be the Guy and Rogue Legacy. This would make sense because you could then also use it to avoid some fall damage. On the other hand I just realized there's a pretty cool trick where you can do what I just said by just jumping before falling off a ledge... so leaving it like this isn't that bad maybe. Yeah, I'm seeing all kinds of little optimizations that you can do by jumping at the right time so you just fall past the edge and still have the second jump.

I think I looped the world more than 5 times.

Bug:
[hidden][img]http://i.imgur.com/99rj3VD.png[/img]
Occurs when going into replays menu and hitting the selection called "enter" (the only one)
[/hidden]

HallaSurvivor

Edit history:

HallaSurvivor: 2015-08-13 10:46:34 pm

2015-08-13 10:34:53 pm

Thanks a lot, Lot! (pun intended)

I'll work on making shooting visual... that's way harder than you think it is, haha. I'll look into some free sound effects first, I think it's a nice middle ground Smiley

-I made esc move backwards in menus. Using your [LEFT] key has always worked, just like [RIGHT] moves forwards, but if esc is more intuitive, that's an easy addition.
-You're not supposed to be able to bind stuff to shift, ctrl, or alt. I'm saving them for future modifier keys. I added tab, though.
-2 has a smaller range than 1. Try letting the enemy get closer to you.
-The volcanoes are meant to be killable like any other enemy. If both died it once, you probably got both in the same bomb radius. I just made it so that the bomb damage varies based on distance to enemies, so that shouldn't happen anymore
-Right, I normally play with music off so I didn't notice. I'll try to find a way to make it loop/make it play continuously when looping
-you can still shoot ghosts. I like the option of killing them... maybe I'll make them invincible and add a "killing ghosts" powerup...
-at the moment melee weapons are all that exist. Eventually I plan to add ranged weapons (which will use right click and the cursor) and those will have ammo.
There will also be more weapons, possibly ones that impact your speed, health, jump height, (ability to kill ghosts?), etc.
-Thanks Smiley

I'm glad you like the fall damage/double jumping! I actually changed the double jump code to make it so you could save yourself from fall damage (hopefully you can, haha) for that very reason! I'm glad it was appreciated <3
I would make it so that you don't refill health immediately, but then I feel like the game gets too hard (I can't make it through more than one loop)... maybe I should add more health?
-fixed (the timer)
-fixed (that was more of a "this is beta. there are only 3 powerups. the game crashes if there aren't enough to fill the menu. aaaaaaaaaaaah." I added enough powerups to prevent this from happening)

that bug at the end confuses me... I *think* I fixed it, because opening replays works fine on my end, but maybe not. Tell me what happens Smiley

Thanks for all the great feedback, it means a lot! I'm going to publish the change as soon as I test it as an exe.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, replays longer than one loop will be broken because of how I handle the upgrade screen. I'm working on a fix

Thanks a lot, Lot! (pun intended)

I'll work on making shooting visual... that's way harder than you think it is, haha. I'll look into some free sound effects first, I think it's a nice middle ground :)

-I made esc move backwards in menus. Using your [LEFT] key has always worked, just like [RIGHT] moves forwards, but if esc is more intuitive, that's an easy addition.
-You're not supposed to be able to bind stuff to shift, ctrl, or alt. I'm saving them for future modifier keys. I added tab, though.
-2 has a smaller range than 1. Try letting the enemy get closer to you.
-The volcanoes are meant to be killable like any other enemy. If both died it once, you probably got both in the same bomb radius. I just made it so that the bomb damage varies based on distance to enemies, so that shouldn't happen anymore
-Right, I normally play with music off so I didn't notice. I'll try to find a way to make it loop/make it play continuously when looping
-you can still shoot ghosts. I like the option of killing them... maybe I'll make them invincible and add a "killing ghosts" powerup...
-at the moment melee weapons are all that exist. Eventually I plan to add ranged weapons (which will use right click and the cursor) and those will have ammo. 
    There will also be more weapons, possibly ones that impact your speed, health, jump height, (ability to kill ghosts?), etc.
-Thanks :) I'm glad you like the fall damage/double jumping! I actually changed the double jump code to make it so you could save yourself from fall damage (hopefully you can, haha) for that very reason! I'm glad it was appreciated <3
    I would make it so that you don't refill health immediately, but then I feel like the game gets too hard (I can't make it through more than one loop)... maybe I should add more health?
-fixed (the timer)
-fixed (that was more of a "this is beta. there are only 3 powerups. the game crashes if there aren't enough to fill the menu. aaaaaaaaaaaah." I added enough powerups to prevent this from happening)

that bug at the end confuses me... I *think* I fixed it, because opening replays works fine on my end, but maybe not. Tell me what happens :)

Thanks for all the great feedback, it means a lot! I'm going to publish the change as soon as I test it as an exe.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, replays longer than one loop will be broken because of how I handle the upgrade screen. I'm working on a fix

HallaSurvivor

2015-08-14 05:47:14 pm

new update! I'll start keeping version numbers soon, I promise!

in the meantime, check the changelog for the changes, they're pretty major Smiley

LotBlind

2015-08-15 03:50:30 pm

I meant I'd killed both volcanoes by SHOOTING not by throwing a bomb. Or are you saying one of the weapons has an AoE? I didn't notice anything wrong with the way the bombs were acting re. enemies, especially since there was (maybe now there is) no feedback for how much damage was being dealt. EDIT: oh so they're melee weapons... still doesn't explain but I'll tell you if it happens again.

- (I see this was already changed but I'll leave this rationale here) If you put a monster in your game that's a ghost, people are going to assume you can't shoot it, maybe blow it up or something but not shoot. Well, that's not quite universal... but that was my assumption. It's the language of games that you have to understand when you design them, or you're going to break expectations without any reason, which just causes an unnecessary knowledge-based (instead of skill-based) learning curve. But it's not such a big deal with ghosts, just something to keep in mind. No decision is arbitrary. The last thing I'll add is you have the choice of adding variety (meaningful differences) to your enemy types by making it so ghosts cannot be shot.
- at this point I'd only consider making explosions hurt ghosts because it's the kind of marginal thing that creates gameplay dynamics (maybe in some situation you'll want to sacrifice a bomb for a ghost, but even hitting them is a bit tough)
- you made it really hard to use the bombs for clearing mobs, almost useless.
- Melee weapons? But I can shoot at things from a distance... what? Okay well that goes some ways to explain why "shooting" felt so quirky.
- Well, a skilled player CAN probably finish even multiple loops without dying when you're learned fall damage cancellation and to use bombs well, but yes, I was about to say health items for MINOR heal-ups would also make sense for even more risk-reward. Also I think the first round is the most difficult one before getting double jump for fall cancellation.
- I would not worry too much about tweaking parameters like health right now when many more features are still to come. You don't have enough information from playtesting or otherwise. Just get the pieces into play.
-Is there any downside to getting the ghost weapon? Maybe make it ONLY affect ghosts.
-what does "long arms" do? Increase melee weapon range? I can't notice it.
-The dropped weapons are still glitching into weird places... Make it so they can only appear in a blank square?
- If you want the game to be competition-worthy in speedrunning, make sure there's no RNG aside from seeds themselves. At current does each seed give you the same power-up options on each loop? I don't mind that you only get to choose from three (more variety when players can't always go in the same order through them) so long as they're the same for everyone. How about chests? Speaking of chests, because it's so instrumental for whether you want to go for the chest what's in it, I'd almost make items appear as themselves instead so you don't have to learn what each seed has in each chest in order to be able to make the right decisions regarding them. That's another knowledge-based little annoyance. In a JRPG it's a bit different because:
a) players are under no time pressure normally (speedrunning is not the default mode)
b) they can have ANY weird thing inside them so there's a sense of being surprised more so than when the set of items is kinda limited and will repeat 5 times (unless each loop has different items)
-to make the game a bit more stylish (if you have the resources), what I was imagining when I said the game should loop is that you fall directly back into the same loop again, i.e. the bottom has an opening to the top and loops 2-4 have an opening back upwards so it looks like a continuous thing. Could you make the game read data from higher up (so the 2Nth block is the same as the Nth, 3Nth, 4Nth etc. block with extra monsters being added later on?)
-What does "generate world record" do?

When you look at the structure of the "course" (5 loops) it's exactly the same as a racing game, so storing both your best lap and overall course time would make sense. Then again at current the final lap is likely to be your fastest, or at least has the greatest potential to be, so maybe it's redundant. Not sure. I wouldn't do this just now on second thoughts. But it's a good observation right? Smiley

Maybe there should be bikini-clad ladies waving a big checkered flag about? No?

-bug: sound effects on/off don't affect the menu beep (but maybe that's intentional)
-all the binds menu options have "on" in front of them
-entering the first menu again resets the music
-pressing buttons (I think it was one of the movement binds) cause a transition from the power-up menu into game with no idea what was selected.
-looping now works (after 5 loops see the final time)
-still get the same error from clicking on "enter" in the replays menu

I meant I'd killed both volcanoes by SHOOTING not by throwing a bomb. Or are you saying one of the weapons has an AoE? I didn't notice anything wrong with the way the bombs were acting re. enemies, especially since there was (maybe now there is) no feedback for how much damage was being dealt. EDIT: oh so they're melee weapons... still doesn't explain but I'll tell you if it happens again.

- (I see this was already changed but I'll leave this rationale here) If you put a monster in your game that's a ghost, people are going to assume you can't shoot it, maybe blow it up or something but not shoot. Well, that's not quite universal... but that was my assumption. It's the language of games that you have to understand when you design them, or you're going to break expectations without any reason, which just causes an unnecessary knowledge-based (instead of skill-based) learning curve. But it's not such a big deal with ghosts, just something to keep in mind. No decision is arbitrary. The last thing I'll add is you have the choice of adding variety (meaningful differences) to your enemy types by making it so ghosts cannot be shot.
- at this point I'd only consider making explosions hurt ghosts because it's the kind of marginal thing that creates gameplay dynamics (maybe in some situation you'll want to sacrifice a bomb for a ghost, but even hitting them is a bit tough)
- you made it really hard to use the bombs for clearing mobs, almost useless.
- Melee weapons? But I can shoot at things from a distance... what? Okay well that goes some ways to explain why "shooting" felt so quirky.
- Well, a skilled player CAN probably finish even multiple loops without dying when you're learned fall damage cancellation and to use bombs well, but yes, I was about to say health items for MINOR heal-ups would also make sense for even more risk-reward. Also I think the first round is the most difficult one before getting double jump for fall cancellation.
- I would not worry too much about tweaking parameters like health right now when many more features are still to come. You don't have enough information from playtesting or otherwise. Just get the pieces into play.
-Is there any downside to getting the ghost weapon? Maybe make it ONLY affect ghosts.
-what does "long arms" do? Increase melee weapon range? I can't notice it.
-The dropped weapons are still glitching into weird places... Make it so they can only appear in a blank square?
- If you want the game to be competition-worthy in speedrunning, make sure there's no RNG aside from seeds themselves. At current does each seed give you the same power-up options on each loop? I don't mind that you only get to choose from three (more variety when players can't always go in the same order through them) so long as they're the same for everyone. How about chests? Speaking of chests, because it's so instrumental for whether you want to go for the chest what's in it, I'd almost make items appear as themselves instead so you don't have to learn what each seed has in each chest in order to be able to make the right decisions regarding them. That's another knowledge-based little annoyance. In a JRPG it's a bit different because:
a) players are under no time pressure normally (speedrunning is not the default mode)
b) they can have ANY weird thing inside them so there's a sense of being surprised more so than when the set of items is kinda limited and will repeat 5 times (unless each loop has different items)
-to make the game a bit more stylish (if you have the resources), what I was imagining when I said the game should loop is that you fall directly back into the same loop again, i.e. the bottom has an opening to the top and loops 2-4 have an opening back upwards so it looks like a continuous thing. Could you make the game read data from higher up (so the 2Nth block is the same as the Nth, 3Nth, 4Nth etc. block with extra monsters being added later on?)
-What does "generate world record" do?

When you look at the structure of the "course" (5 loops) it's exactly the same as a racing game, so storing both your best lap and overall course time would make sense. Then again at current the final lap is likely to be your fastest, or at least has the greatest potential to be, so maybe it's redundant. Not sure. I wouldn't do this just now on second thoughts. But it's a good observation right? :) Maybe there should be bikini-clad ladies waving a big checkered flag about? No?

-bug: sound effects on/off don't affect the menu beep (but maybe that's intentional)
-all the binds menu options have "on" in front of them
-entering the first menu again resets the music
-pressing buttons (I think it was one of the movement binds) cause a transition from the power-up menu into game with no idea what was selected.
-looping now works (after 5 loops see the final time)
-still get the same error from clicking on "enter" in the replays menu

HallaSurvivor

2015-08-17 09:03:44 pm

So, the newest update is kind of a developer release. Black circles onscreen will show how the melee weapons work.

Everything whose center is in the black circle is damaged equally
On seeing them, I think the ranges are a bit big, especially with the longarms upgrade

anyways, on to your points Smiley

Explosions will continue hurting ghosts, primarily so that bombs can be used to clear areas
I fixed it so that bombs damage enemies noticeably again
Melee weapons work by checking a radius around the hero. I'm considering limiting it to a section of the circle (say, 30 degrees above/below the hero's front), but if you know a better way, please tell me Smiley

I'll try to add health canisters. It's been on the list for a while, but I'm not sure how I want to implement them mechanic wise yet (i.e. do you have a reserve that you use? or do you get health just by walking over them? etc.)
The ghost weapon does less damage and has a tiny circle. You'll see when you play with the circles.
Long arms increases melee range and the range at which you can pick up weapons. UNFORTUNATELY, I forgot to actually multiply the melee range by the long-arms multiplier. *facepalm* It's fixed now Smiley

Dropped weapons shouldn't glitch anymore. If they do, please screenshot? <3
I just double checked it, code and game, and upgrades should be based purely on the seed. There was one small bug because python dictionaries are weird, but I think I sorted it out
Chests are also based purely on the seed, and are constant between loops... as for having the items just strewn about the ground, it seems ugly to me. I get what you're saying, though... I'll think about it
I would love to make looping that seamless, but my question then is where do you upgrade? It's also nice to have a short break, imo, where you aren't being timed. But you would know better than me if that's true of speedrunners.
Where do you see "generate world record"? I AM recording the world, but I don't remember naming anything that, and a quick look through the code doesn't show it anywhere...

I think I'm going to store splits and display all 5 loops at the end. Also, I'm planning to make the world more difficult on each loop, so that should help mitigate any huge speed gains via upgrades.

bugs:
fixed the on/off so beeps should only happen when SFX are on
fixed the binds screen to not show on before the names
entering the first menu again... I'll work on it Smiley

pressing the RIGHT button will select whichever option you have highlighted, just like every other menu. I'm not considering this a bug, but will consider changing it if it's not intuitive Smiley

I found out the source of that bug! I found that the module I'm using to handle creating a new window doesn't import correctly with cx_freeze (what builds the executable)... Now I just need to try and FIX it... gimme time Tongue

(In the meantime, I think I made it so that it won't crash when you try to open a replay. I'm not sure it'll work, since I can't replicate the bug on my machine, but the code looks fine, haha)

Thanks again for playing and for giving such insightful comments! Smiley

So, the newest update is kind of a developer release. Black circles onscreen will show how the melee weapons work.

Everything whose center is in the black circle is damaged equally
On seeing them, I think the ranges are a bit big, especially with the longarms upgrade

anyways, on to your points :)

Explosions will continue hurting ghosts, primarily so that bombs can be used to clear areas
I fixed it so that bombs damage enemies noticeably again
Melee weapons work by checking a radius around the hero. I'm considering limiting it to a section of the circle (say, 30 degrees above/below the hero's front), but if you know a better way, please tell me :)
I'll try to add health canisters. It's been on the list for a while, but I'm not sure how I want to implement them mechanic wise yet (i.e. do you have a reserve that you use? or do you get health just by walking over them? etc.)
The ghost weapon does less damage and has a tiny circle. You'll see when you play with the circles.
Long arms increases melee range and the range at which you can pick up weapons. UNFORTUNATELY, I forgot to actually multiply the melee range by the long-arms multiplier. *facepalm* It's fixed now :)
Dropped weapons shouldn't glitch anymore. If they do, please screenshot? <3
I just double checked it, code and game, and upgrades should be based purely on the seed. There was one small bug because python dictionaries are weird, but I think I sorted it out
Chests are also based purely on the seed, and are constant between loops... as for having the items just strewn about the ground, it seems ugly to me. I get what you're saying, though... I'll think about it
I would love to make looping that seamless, but my question then is where do you upgrade? It's also nice to have a short break, imo, where you aren't being timed. But you would know better than me if that's true of speedrunners.
Where do you see "generate world record"? I AM recording the world, but I don't remember naming anything that, and a quick look through the code doesn't show it anywhere...

I think I'm going to store splits and display all 5 loops at the end. Also, I'm planning to make the world more difficult on each loop, so that should help mitigate any huge speed gains via upgrades.

bugs:
fixed the on/off so beeps should only happen when SFX are on
fixed the binds screen to not show on before the names
entering the first menu again... I'll work on it :)
pressing the RIGHT button will select whichever option you have highlighted, just like every other menu. I'm not considering this a bug, but will consider changing it if it's not intuitive :)
I found out the source of that bug! I found that the module I'm using to handle creating a new window doesn't import correctly with cx_freeze (what builds the executable)... Now I just need to try and FIX it... gimme time :P
    (In the meantime, I think I made it so that it won't crash when you try to open a replay. I'm not sure it'll work, since I can't replicate the bug on my machine, but the code looks fine, haha)

Thanks again for playing and for giving such insightful comments! :)

LotBlind

2015-08-19 01:00:15 pm

I think having health cans in seed-determined places so they all spawn in for the first loop and the ones you haven't collected stay for the next one would be my suggestion. Reasoning is this way you are given full knowledge of everything from the start and can plan your entire 5 loops ahead a bit. I wouldn't place very many of them around so there continues to be an incentive to go for the slightly-out of position ones. If you allowed the portable "medkits", it means players have to map another button for using them (or maybe they extend the health bar being used automatically). Something some real-time action games have key commands that they really didn't need to have. It's something to keep as simple as possible in my view. Think how Quake abandons the "use" button completely, nor does it have crouching like Duke 3D did. This is also the generic platformer approach to game design, so if you picked up health item when you didn't really need to, you've got yourself to blame. I'm not saying this absolutely has to be the case with this game, but I think you could definitely play around wit that idea a bit - maybe health could randomly spawn in certain spots in certain room types where it actually "blocks your way" and you have to take a detour if you don't want to collect it yet. The detour can be up to a medium-sized one because in the end, with all the risks you're going to want to be able to take, that extra health is automatically worth something in time. At first, though, random generation of let's say between 3 and 8 health packs of 50 hp each would be a good stepping stone to get a feel for them.

I wonder if the items should be a little bit bigger in general? I'm sure that's the plan. Also you're saying you're afraid it'll look ugly without chests? I think more platformers just have them there than those that don't, by far, and this furthermore is a very speedrun oriented game which means everyone is going to just want to know what's in the chest. It skips them the trouble of first playing a seed once for "recon" to see which ones they're interested in and which ones not. I don't think you have a choice Smiley

I do recommend thinking about some small visual thing that makes them stand out from their environment at some point.

Okay, the question of what to do with seamless looping is a good one... I think you can probably combine the two for example like this:
a) Make there be a longer drop (let's say 5 seconds long) and make the prompt appear on the same screen as an overlay. You click on your choice with the mouse.
b) Make the game loop seamlessly but just pause time and give the player the prompt as they're falling through the finish line.
c) (Fancier): Make the game loop seamlessly, but cause time to slow down during the drop until the selection has been made.

5 minutes (the time I last got) is not a long time for a continuous run, don't worry about players getting tired that quickly. It's actually very unusual for there to be any pauses between laps. I can't think of a single game. And that would mean you'd have to make the replays cut off the waiting time (you know, what if someone leaves it on for an hour?). If the system works you can probably do that but choosing your upgrades quickly is a very staple thing and all menuing after the run has started always goes into timing. Well, unless it's in-game timed, which in this case it is... So yeah that might work. It's just weird to think the game is completely dropping footage from the middle of a run. I guess do whatever is simpler programming-wise first, and I'll let you know if I really don't like it for some reason.

Making world more difficult each loop is what I thought you might be doing.

Pressing "right" to select menu item: this is fine, I guess it's not as usual that you can also enter the game without pressing enter. Wait for more feedback?

"Generate world record" showed up as one of the options after finishing the entire race. I think it was the bottom one or the second to bottom. Unfortunately I won't have time to actually play again until your next build, so I'll screenshot it then if it's still there. I'll also take a good look at all other things you mentioned.

I think having health cans in seed-determined places so they all spawn in for the first loop and the ones you haven't collected stay for the next one would be my suggestion. Reasoning is this way you are given full knowledge of everything from the start and can plan your entire 5 loops ahead a bit. I wouldn't place very many of them around so there continues to be an incentive to go for the slightly-out of position ones. If you allowed the portable "medkits", it means players have to map another button for using them (or maybe they extend the health bar being used automatically). Something some real-time action games have key commands that they really didn't need to have. It's something to keep as simple as possible in my view. Think how Quake abandons the "use" button completely, nor does it have crouching like Duke 3D did. This is also the generic platformer approach to game design, so if you picked up health item when you didn't really need to, you've got yourself to blame. I'm not saying this absolutely has to be the case with this game, but I think you could definitely play around wit that idea a bit - maybe health could randomly spawn in certain spots in certain room types where it actually "blocks your way" and you have to take a detour if you don't want to collect it yet. The detour can be up to a medium-sized one because in the end, with all the risks you're going to want to be able to take, that extra health is automatically worth something in time. At first, though, random generation of let's say between 3 and 8 health packs of 50 hp each would be a good stepping stone to get a feel for them.

I wonder if the items should be a little bit bigger in general? I'm sure that's the plan. Also you're saying you're afraid it'll look ugly without chests? I think more platformers just have them there than those that don't, by far, and this furthermore is a very speedrun oriented game which means everyone is going to just want to know what's in the chest. It skips them the trouble of first playing a seed once for "recon" to see which ones they're interested in and which ones not. I don't think you have a choice :) I do recommend thinking about some small visual thing that makes them stand out from their environment at some point.

Okay, the question of what to do with seamless looping is a good one... I think you can probably combine the two for example like this:
a) Make there be a longer drop (let's say 5 seconds long) and make the prompt appear on the same screen as an overlay. You click on your choice with the mouse.
b) Make the game loop seamlessly but just pause time and give the player the prompt as they're falling through the finish line.
c) (Fancier): Make the game loop seamlessly, but cause time to slow down during the drop until the selection has been made.

5 minutes (the time I last got) is not a long time for a continuous run, don't worry about players getting tired that quickly. It's actually very unusual for there to be any pauses between laps. I can't think of a single game. And that would mean you'd have to make the replays cut off the waiting time (you know, what if someone leaves it on for an hour?). If the system works you can probably do that but choosing your upgrades quickly is a very staple thing and all menuing after the run has started always goes into timing. Well, unless it's in-game timed, which in this case it is... So yeah that might work. It's just weird to think the game is completely dropping footage from the middle of a run. I guess do whatever is simpler programming-wise first, and I'll let you know if I really don't like it for some reason.

Making world more difficult each loop is what I thought you might be doing.

Pressing "right" to select menu item: this is fine, I guess it's not as usual that you can also enter the game without pressing enter. Wait for more feedback?

"Generate world record" showed up as one of the options after finishing the entire race. I think it was the bottom one or the second to bottom. Unfortunately I won't have time to actually play again until your next build, so I'll screenshot it then if it's still there. I'll also take a good look at all other things you mentioned.

HallaSurvivor

2015-08-25 07:42:07 am

Disclaimer: I really enjoy working on this, so I'll probably keep it alive, but college is starting up. Development is going to have to slow down some for real world stuff.

I can make health canisters exist either in predefined places, like turrets, or randomly generated upon starting the world (but they would be in the same spot with the same seed)... I'm leaning towards predefined places just because it's easier and mitigates a recon run, but I'm not entirely sure yet.

getting health to not show up on looping... is going to be interesting Tongue

I like the idea, though, so I'm sure I can make it work. It's one of those "I know how to do it, but it's not going to be much fun actually doing it" situations.

I can make the items bigger. I hadn't thought much about item size, they're just placeholders (obviously).

I took out the chests entirely. Now weapons spawn randomly throughout the world outside of chests.

Seamless looping is something that I want to do now. But I'm not entirely sure I know where to START on coding that... I'll keep thinking about it Smiley

Ok. Having a menu that isn't timed is DEFINITELY easier from a programming perspective, but like I said, I like the continuous looping idea, and if the upgrade menu is in the same gamestate as the actual game, it will be included in the timer as well.

Thanks again for all your feedback! It means a lot knowing that at least one person cares a bit, haha.
I'll post here again when I make a few more changes.

Disclaimer: I really enjoy working on this, so I'll probably keep it alive, but college is starting up. Development is going to have to slow down some for real world stuff.

I can make health canisters exist either in predefined places, like turrets, or randomly generated upon starting the world (but they would be in the same spot with the same seed)... I'm leaning towards predefined places just because it's easier and mitigates a recon run, but I'm not entirely sure yet.

getting health to not show up on looping... is going to be interesting :P I like the idea, though, so I'm sure I can make it work. It's one of those "I know how to do it, but it's not going to be much fun actually doing it" situations.

I can make the items bigger. I hadn't thought much about item size, they're just placeholders (obviously).

I took out the chests entirely. Now weapons spawn randomly throughout the world outside of chests.

Seamless looping is something that I want to do now. But I'm not entirely sure I know where to START on coding that... I'll keep thinking about it :)

Ok. Having a menu that isn't timed is DEFINITELY easier from a programming perspective, but like I said, I like the continuous looping idea, and if the upgrade menu is in the same gamestate as the actual game, it will be included in the timer as well.

Thanks again for all your feedback! It means a lot knowing that at least one person cares a bit, haha.
I'll post here again when I make a few more changes.

LotBlind

2015-08-26 10:41:23 am

I feel placing the health drops randomly might be better simply because more variety... you can reach any square after all. We don't want a situation where it's ALWAYS equally good to go for a given pack just cause it's the one least out the way. The recon problem was for if you had to separately find out and memorize what was in each chest, if it's plain to see what's where that's not a problem in equal measures (your first time isn't ever going to be your best anyway and involves the kind of natural scout of seeing the map configuration). That kinda stuff is normal.

It sounds strange there should be a problem with making things disappear from following loops... aren't you using an architecture where item data could be stored separately from walls? That would allow for there to be some continuity with things like weapon drops, monsters (more can be added but the ones you never killed would stay) and perhaps other gimmickry.

Can't you make the game simply read architecture data from the top again when you reach the bottom coordinates? Well I don't know much about coding.

I had another idea for how upgrades could be represented in a fairly simple yet effective way... you could have at all times boxes on the left or right (there's room) showing you all the different possible power-ups. When it comes to the first loop, the power-ups you choose between are highlighted. After selected, a power-up is displayed in black (instead of grey) or something to that effect. You'd also select them from those boxes. The reason is this way you'll never forget which powerups you have so you know what moves you can pull. TBH most people don't forget about such an important thing anyway.

One step more advanced than that, but one that also solves the looping-pausing question would be to make the player choose their power-ups IN ADVANCE (after allowed to see the preview of the map) and they're automatically activated one by one when you pass the looping point. This would mean that you can't make any in-flight decisions based on your health situation or otherwise but on the other hand it forces you to think ahead and be smart, so either could work. I can't tell you which I'd go for right now.

I'll actually play your next update, promise!

I feel placing the health drops randomly might be better simply because more variety... you can reach any square after all. We don't want a situation where it's ALWAYS equally good to go for a given pack just cause it's the one least out the way. The recon problem was for if you had to separately find out and [i]memorize[/i] what was in each chest, if it's plain to see what's where that's not a problem in equal measures (your first time isn't ever going to be your best anyway and involves the kind of natural scout of seeing the map configuration). That kinda stuff is normal.

It sounds strange there should be a problem with making things disappear from following loops... aren't you using an architecture where item data could be stored separately from walls? That would allow for there to be some continuity with things like weapon drops, monsters (more can be added but the ones you never killed would stay) and perhaps other gimmickry.

Can't you make the game simply read architecture data from the top again when you reach the bottom coordinates? Well I don't know much about coding.

I had another idea for how upgrades could be represented in a fairly simple yet effective way... you could have at all times boxes on the left or right (there's room) showing you all the different possible power-ups. When it comes to the first loop, the power-ups you choose between are highlighted. After selected, a power-up is displayed in black (instead of grey) or something to that effect. You'd also select them from those boxes. The reason is this way you'll never forget which powerups you have so you know what moves you can pull. TBH most people don't forget about such an important thing anyway.

One step more advanced than that, but one that also solves the looping-pausing question would be to make the player choose their power-ups IN ADVANCE (after allowed to see the preview of the map) and they're automatically activated one by one when you pass the looping point. This would mean that you can't make any in-flight decisions based on your health situation or otherwise but on the other hand it forces you to think ahead and be smart, so either could work. I can't tell you which I'd go for right now.

I'll actually play your next update, promise!