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I agree, I don't think grinding around Osterfair is in any way a good idea, I don't remember there being any metals or ANYTHING worth going after there, either by Rhone or wherever you find Metal Babbles is most likely better.

Edit history:
FionordeQuester: 2010-10-13 05:44:39 pm
FionordeQuester: 2010-10-13 04:41:26 pm
FionordeQuester: 2010-10-13 04:30:03 pm
FionordeQuester: 2010-10-13 04:29:16 pm
FionordeQuester: 2010-10-13 04:29:15 pm
Alright, I have tested my team out against Malroth, Hargon, and his Generals, and I've concluded that it is possible, even if it's not nearly as reliable as I wish it was.  Plus, I think I might've made some mistakes in regards to the guys route, because even though the Sword of Destruction proved useful (it's increased Critical Hit Rate does so much to help against Hargon and Zarlox), the Demon Armor proved absolutely worthless, and the Magic Armor just doesn't cut it at all.

I've changed my mind.  I'm going to get a second set of Flying Water Cloth after all.  I actually think that's what the route intended to say, however, I originally thought he intended to use Magic Armor because he mentions it later on.  However, now that I think about it, I think he actually mentioned both not to advocate using them, but to compare and contrast them to the Water Flying Cloth, to argue about how Water Flying Cloth was the best.  What tripped me up was how I missed the fact that he mentined taking two visits to Tuhn.  Plus, Malroth is almost completely unmanagable with only one person who can reliably survive his Fierce Flames attack.  Unfortunately, he's immune to critical hits, so I can't just reset over and over and hope I can kill him quickly.

Also, grinding around Osterfair is actually a pretty good idea if you're playing this game normally.  Unless your doing a segmented run like I am, the extra levels do a lot to help you survive the Sea Cave and the Cave to Rhone.
Hey guys, I've made a decision.  I'm not going to be doing this as a segmented run anymore.  This run, from now on, is going to be a single segment one, mainly because even if I was able to manipulate the lottery in every way I wanted to, it still basically makes my run nothing more than an incredibly poor TAS.  And I'm not going to be having that.  Instead, I'm going to be running through this game using realistic strategies that, although somewhat risky, are strategies someone can actually put to use when playing this game.

However, that raises this question.  Does the Thunder Staff cloning thing count as a glitch?  Because all the regular chests in this game respawn as soon as you leave the respective dungeon your in, and all chests with unique items respawn as soon as you lose that unique item.  So, suppose I did some testing, got a Thunder Staff, sold it, then died, and found out that that would actually make the one wielding that staff respawn.  Probably unlikely, but if this is indeed true, would this count as a glitch?
Alright guys, I've now cooked up a new route for the single segment run.  Basically, it's just like my old route except I'm going out of my way to get the Erdrick equipment, I'm going to Hamlin right away, I'm not buying anything at Lianport, I'm only buying Herbs and a Warpwing from Hamlin, I'm only buying the Jail Key from Wellgarth, I'm not manipulating any Wizard Wands, and I'm going to do the Lake Cave only once I have Elani in my party, so that I can level her up before going to the Tower of Wind, and I'm not going to sell the Thunder Rod this time.  Glynn is going to get the Thunder Rod now.

Also, I'm going to death warp out of the Lake Cave just as I did last time if I can manage the funds needed to revive everyone (which I can probably do with some careful planning).
Oh yeah, and I'm going to have to pass up on the Water Flying Clothes since this is a single segment run...tough luck, huh?  I only wish I hadn't posted as a guest the last post, or else I could've edited that post :/...
Highly Evolved
No Water Flying Clothes is not something I'd wish on anyone.  What's the alternative?  Clothes Hiding?  Or is the Fur Coat better?
Well, it means I'll probably buy a Magic Armor for either Ruto (Prince of Midenhall) Glynn (the Prince of Cannock) once I'm able to (probably not until Osterfair).  If I decide to put it on Ruto, I'll make sure I also have the World Leaf Tree before going into the Sea Cave, as the two Evil Wizards can easily screw you over.  As for the Princess, I'll probably either get her Clothes of Hiding, or nothing at all, depending on what's convenient to me (so that Glynn can be revived to cast Outside if he dies). 

Armor really doesn't do a whole lot in this game unfortunately, unless it's either given in great amounts (something only Ruto has the luxury of enjoying), or reduces magic damage.
This is the only thread i could find on DW2, so figured I'd post something here.

Accidentally ended up doing a full RTA (because double WFC + staff of thunder dupe is way too nice to give up), as well as sword of destruction uncurse glitch, and possibly other things I've forgotten about. Extremely messy as it wasn't really planned so much as thrown together from what I remember doing many years ago modified a bit.

Timing ended up being ~7:56:xx (stopped the timer a few secs early because i forgot exacly when you lost control):

Was actually surprised the run wasn't longer, and there's certainly a ton of time to gain. It's a bit lengthy to post the entire route, especially since there are certainly improvements to be made, but i got through cave to rhone at Midenhall lvl 14 with everything completed, then, a large grinding section later, killed malroth at Midenhall lvl 28 after 1 miserably failed attempt that got crushed by Hargon somehow.

A few insane folks have talked about doing this game, so I figured it's at least worth getting the ball rolling on it and seeing what comes of it.
The recent spurt of Dragon Warrior running has got me to revive my segmented attempt!  Here is my own route:

Segment 1: Walk to Cannock.
Segment 2: Get two herbs and a lottery ticket, talk to the old man in the Spring of Bravery, deathwarp back.
Segment 3: Two herbs and a ticket, retrieve the Prince of Cannock, get Silver Key and Wing, deathwarp back.
Segment 4: Two herbs and a ticket, walk to Hamlin.
Segment 5: Win two Wizard Wands and one Wizard's Ring.  Sell a wand, give the other to Cannock for damage dealing.  Buy a Broad Sword and Wing.  (Will probably take multiple segments.)
Segment 6: Retrieve Mirror of Ra, Wing back, revive Princess of Moonbrooke.
Segment 7: Retrieve Cloak of Wind, Wing back.
Segment 8: Walk to Dragon's Horn, pick up Dew's Yarn, walk to Lianport, get ship, sail to Zahan, get Golden Key, sail to Wellgarth, get Jailor's Key and Watergate Key, sail to Zahan, get Magic Loom, use warpgate to Midenhall, get Erdrick's Token, kill Evil Clown, sell Staff of Thunder and Wizard's Wand.
Segment 9: Kill Evil Clown, sell Staff of Thunder.
Segment 10: Kill Evil Clown, give Staff of Thunder to Cannock for damage-dealing, walk to Cannock, get Erdrick's Shield, save there.
Segment 11: Sail to Wellgarth, buy Magic Armor, Sword of Light, Shield of Strength, sail to Tuhn, open watergate, turn in WFC items, cast Return, sail to Dragon's Horn, get Dew's yarn, Return.
Segment 12: Walk to Hamlin, save, get Water Crest, Return, sail to Lighthouse, get Star Crest, sail to Holy Monolith, get Erdrick's Helmet, warp to Flame Monolith, get Sun Crest, warp to Beran monolith, save there.
Segment 12: Sail to Zahan, get Magic Loom, Return, sail to Tuhn, pick up WFC, drop off WFC items, Return.
Segment 13: Sail to Tuhn, pick up WFC and Dragon's Banes (if you don't have those yet), go to Moon Tower, retrieve Moon Fragment.
Segment 14: Sail to Osterfair, get Moon Crest, sail to Sea Cave, get Eye of Malroth, Return.
Segment 15: Open Road to Rhone, retrieve Life Crest, Sword of Thunder, Erdrick's Armor, Return.  Sail to Sea Shrine, get Charm of Rubiss.
Segment 16: Traverse Road of Rhone.
Segment 17-?: Level grind to 22/20/17.
Segment ?+1: Beat the game.

The crest-collecting parts differ from other people's routes.  In general the other routes seem to spend too much effort preserving the Hamlin save point, presumably because people don't realize how surprisingly convenient Cannock is.  Anyway, the test run finished at 4:14, and I currently have two segments finished of the final run (one from late last year, one finished only today).

Everhate, I'll watch your attempt and give some feedback later.
Edit history:
Lhexa: 2014-05-07 10:02:01 am
Lhexa: 2014-05-06 04:03:29 pm
Okay, my comments so far on your route:

I chose the name "S", because it gives the shortest names for the other two.  I also tried going to the Spring before Cannock, and it didn't work (though there was new dialogue).

I timed it, and a round of buying/selling for Lottery Tickets took 1:05.  There's a 1/8 chance of getting a Lottery Ticket, so let's say you'll get one per round.  That's spending 7x8=56 GP for the herbs, then selling them for 7x6+53=95 GP, for a profit of 39 GP.  So, let's be generous and say that's 40 GP per minute (your attempt did something like 25 GP/min., but maybe that's just bad luck).  Starting at level two, a lone Midenhall was able to earn 47 GP in ten minutes in the hills near Cannock, and level to 5/0/0.  So that's about 5 GP/min. plus levelling.  Meanwhile, starting at levels three and one, the two princes were able to earn 167 GP (plus two Medical Herbs) in ten minutes in the hills west of Cannock, for about 20 GP/min (with herbs), levelling to 6/5.  I used starting equipment in both cases.  The Lottery Ticket method is better, sure, but not by such an extreme amount, and the XP is also valuable. 

A level one Midenhall with three Herbs can make it through the Spring of Bravery fairly often if he always runs, and a level three one with four Herbs can consistenly make it through while fighting all battles.  (My segment has a level two Midenhall needing two herbs to make it through, but that was tough.)  So if you really don't want to use the lottery, you could spend four minutes reaching level three (it's pretty fast if you skip the earliest zones), six minutes retrieving Cannock, ten minutes in the Lake Cave (say), earning around 300 GP in the process (including the value of Lake Cave goodies, which are all useful)... or you could spend eighteen minutes in the lottery scam and earn around 720 GP, with no progress or levelling.  I really don't think the lottery scam is worthwhile.

I'll hold off on further comments until you make another attempt, since it's tough to see what are mistakes and what are route choices.
Yeah, obviously quite bad, and a lot of things I'd do differently (lottery stuff i think may be useful for a small boost, but I was too ambitious with the gains). At the very least, got a run finished that will be pretty easy to improve.
Edit history:
Lhexa: 2014-05-07 11:58:40 am
Lhexa: 2014-05-07 10:06:04 am
Good luck on your next attempt.  Anyway, I just found out something disheartening: as in some of the later games, "slow" message speed is faster than "fast", provided you button-mash throughout the battle.  I won't redo my first two segments, as the difference is rather small, but I'm not looking forward to button-mashing for the remainder of the run.

Also, since I want to show the message speed change in my third segment, I have to set it back to "fast" before each attempt.  *sighs*

Here's another surprise: the northern route to the Lake Cave is safer than the southern route.  The northern one is four steps longer, but has about 1/4 fewer encounters on average (due to safer terrain), and it goes through slightly easier zones.  Hopefully my survival rate will jump nicely, now that I've discovered this...
Hey, I've read your route and I have to say, you've made quite a good job!

A bit of feedback I have so far:

Segment 14-15: Grabbing the Moon Crest before going to the Sea Cave means you take a few steps North, only to go back on your tracks right after. What I would recommend instead is to only visit Ostenfair while you are on your way to get the Charm of Rubiss in the Sea shrine, on segment 15, since that one is already North of Ostenfair. Also, getting through the Sea Cave might take you a fair amount of tries at such low levels, you might not want to have to visit Ostenfair every reset Smiley

Segment ?+1: I haven't tried it myself, but don't you think beating the game at lower levels is possible? His later segments were never posted, but FionordeQuester seemed to believe level 19 was doable. I know trying at lower levels might eat even more of your sanity than this overall run already will, but it would be a shame if such a well-thought run were to be beaten simply because someone else made it at an earlier level.

That's all I can think of for now, it looks like a great route to me, I must admit.

I'm looking forward to seeing your first segments! Smiley
Thanks for the feedback!

That's a good point about the Moon Crest.  I guess that I'm so used to getting the other four crests first that I didn't think to wait until after the first Rhone dive.  Anyway, Osterfair and the Charm of Rubiss ought to be their own segment, since the Rhone looting will also be very difficult.  I'd hate to get a nice attempt wasted by excessive ocean battles.

As for the final levels... level 22/20/17 has a few things going for it: Midenhall gets the last of three very strong level-ups in a row; Cannock gets Increase, which is modestly useful against the last three bosses; Moonbrooke gets the second of four strong +MP level-ups.  Having the MP is quite important, as I won't be visiting the Rhone Monolith between bosses.  While planning the route, I did testing for the odds of success against the various hurdles, and had these rates of success:

Getting to Atlas with a full party: 10/20
Atlas: 4/20
Bazuzu: 16/20 (all deaths were due to Sacrifice)
Zarlox: 17/20
Hargon: 11/20
Malroth: 4/40

Multiplying them all together suggests odds of success of about 1/300.  Worse, actually.  These fights were done with full MP, so they leave out the odds of my Wizard's Rings breaking too soon.  I'll test lower levels as I get closer to finishing, and if they aren't much worse I'll go for them... but 1/300 is close to the limit of how difficult a segment I'll attempt.

As for my progress: I got a 7:47 on segment three, which I've decided to keep.  I need to finish the segment with enough gold to revive Cannock, stay at the inn, and buy an Antidote Herb for a Lottery Ticket.  This attempt does so with only 2 GP to spare, including the sale price of a spare Medical Herb.  So while it's imaginable (though not easy) to get a lower time, I doubt I could do so with enough GP gathered. 

I've also decided on a small upcoming change: getting three Wizard's Rings (two to keep, one to sell) from the Lottery instead of two Wizard's Wands and one Ring.  This gives me a wider margin of error in the final segment, and the higher sale price lets me get an Iron Spear for Cannock before getting the Cloak of Wind.  If the lottery were totally random (it isn't), odds of a Wizard's Ring are 2/3 that of a Wizard's Wand, which isn't that harsh a drop.  I also debated going for a Gold Card, but the benefits are marginal: one fewer Staff of Thunder, in exchange for one extra lottery segment (plus manipulating another ticket drop).  That's maybe thirty seconds saved, and not worth it in my opinion.

I'll encode and upload the finished segments this weekend.
Oh, I didn't realize you were planning on doing only one trip do Hargon's castle!
Now the choice of higher levels make sense Smiley

However, I wonder if it wouldn't be faster in the end to do two trips there (kill the three mini-bosses, return, go back to kill Hargon/Malroth) but at lower levels?
I don't remember how long it takes to level up from 20 to 22 (or maybe even 19-22), so I cannot say if I am right or not.

Of course your chances of success against each boss would be lower, but since it's two trips it might turn out being better than 1/300 in the end.

On another note though, I guess doing it all at once is a "cleaner" way to finish the game then warping back to the monolith after killing half of them, so the choice really is yours in the end!

Whichever one you chose, I wish you good luck with it and I look forward to seeing those first few segments! Smiley
Returning to the shrine wouldn't help any, since with two Wizard's Rings I should have enough MP to make it through all the bosses.  Also, I can only make it to the castle intact half the time, so returning to the shrine would actually decrease my odds of success.  I may still attempt lower levels, though.  A 1/1000 chance of success is about the limit of what I'm willing to attempt, and I'm not quite that low yet.  I'll be testing all the options more thoroughly as I get closer to the end.

Here are the finished segments!

Segment 1: 2:29

Midenhall, known to the world as "S", walks to Cannock to find his cousin.  Along the way, a life-or-death struggle with a mouse brings him to level two.

Segment 2: 3:35

Ignoring the guards snickering nearby, S agrees to visit the "Spring of Bravery", not realizing it is a euphemism.  In a stroke of ill luck, S contracts dysentery while foraging in the northern wilderness.  Attaining level three, with its considerable strength boost, does not stop him from collapsing before the eyes of a horrified old hermit.

Segment 3: 7:47
Total so far: 13:51

While working on this segment I discovered that the "slow" message speed is fastest, given adequate button-mashing.  Thus the change at the start.

S gets mauled on the way to Leftwyne, only to discover that his cousin Bran has been slumming in a disreputable hostel.  They embark on a suicide mission to the Lake Cave, only to be done in by their fell enemies, the big rats.  Thankfully they manage to grab the Silver Key before succumbing to their enemies' nibbles.

Next up is the run to Hamlin.
Full spell resistances, for Scorpion_Max:

Segment 4: 2:34
Total so far: 16:25

A run to Hamlin with only one fight.  Since the fight was trivial, I was able to skip the Hamlin inn, saving another 10-15 seconds.  I had planned to reach levels 6/5 in this segment, but I really can't pass up such good fortune.  Next up are three lottery segments, which should be a pain.
Hey, I'm happy to see you've uploaded some segments!
I've watched them and I can say you have done a great job so far! Here's what I thought for each of them

Segment 1: Pretty straightforward, getting level 2 there was a good idea
Segment 2: Dying to poison so close to the source of bravery was really good, I would have never thought of that, good job!
Segment 3: Again, you died really shortly after getting the key, that's good. Where you aiming for 5-4 or would you have been fine with 5-3?
Segment 4: Whoa! How many tries did you make before getting no encounters like that? That's TAS like, really impressive! For the 6-5 leveling, I guess you can simply get a few encounters on the way to the mirror to fix it!

Also, to clarify what I meant by saying that warping back to the monolith would increase your chances, I meant that it would be done in 2 segments.
So, if we say you have (1/10) chance to kill every boss and 1/2 to reach them, it would be
Segment final-1: (1/2)*(1/10)*(1/10)*(1/10) = (1/2,000)
Segment final  : (1/2)*(1/10)*(1/10)              = (1/200)
While doing it in one segment would be        = (1/200,000)
So it would take you 2,200 tries instead of 200,000 (Yes those numbers are way off, but you get the point Roll Eyes )

However, that would definitely be a time loss, so if you are willing to go for the "one-cycle", by all means go for it! Smiley

Last but not least, thank you very much for posting that resistance chart, I'll study that a bit to try to figure out the best way to fight monsters in single segment runs! That sure will prove usefull to me Smiley
BTW, Lhexa, are you aware of the Lottery Ticket trick?
Ah, wait, I see.  Shoot, didn't read.  Ok then, good luck!  BTW, when are you getting the Silver Key?
...Ughh....not one of my finer moments >_<!!
Ok ok, I PROMISE this one is worth it!  I think the "Slow" text speed might actually be faster than the "Fast" one.  Because "Slow" doesn't actually make anything slower, it just makes it so that you have to push A more during battles, so if you mash A, that actually ends up being a bit faster.
Yeah, I found out that "Slow" speed was fastest after finishing two segments, so I changed it at the start of segment three.  What do you think of my Crest-collecting route, Fionordequester?  I think that's the only place where mine differs significantly from yours.  I also considered getting a Golden Card and skipping the Silver Key altogether, but the 1/2048 odds at the Lottery put me off.

I already discussed these things with Scorpion_Max on his stream, but here they are for bystanders:  I would happily split bosses into two segments, but they revive after every reset.  You can heal at the shrine between attempts, and wander the world freely, but resetting brings them back.  *sighs*  On the plus side, I think that my boss testing was done with the Sword of Thunder, and I could boost my chances by holding out for a Sword of Destruction.  I would probably use the equipment glitch, since Malroth is toughest and critical hits don't work on him (I'll doublecheck, though).  This adds an extra segment of going through Rhone in reverse to find a House of Healing, but that's better than levelling.

In segment two, I certainly didn't plan to die from poison, either.  It just happened to time itself great.  In segment three, I never managed to get the Silver Key without also getting 5/4, and often 6/5 too.  I believe the kept segment had the lowest experience of all the ones that got the key.  As for segment four, it was only about three hours of attempts, happily.  Finally, here's another segment.  Nothing much to see, just me getting a Wizard's Ring.

Segment 5: 0:34
Total so far: 16:59
Hmm...well, in regards to which Crest collection route is fastest, it's hard to say.  I haven't tested it myself, however, do keep in mind that my route was based off of the Tool Assisted Run, so in terms of sheer speed, mine is probably the fastest...

However, that run didn't collect the Thunder Staff, and we also need to worry about reliability so...hmm.  What if you got the Golden Key at Zahan, took the Traveler's Gate to Midenhall, saved there, then sailed to Wellgarth to get the stuff before warping to Midenhall?  Then after getting your Gold, you can Fairy Water to Cannock, and get your other stuff at Wellgarth?  How about that?
Yeah, after testing it out, it seems as though both of those take the same amount of time with Repel in since my idea means less encounters, I'm guessing mine might be a bit faster.