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MASTER-88: 2013-08-22 08:47:14 am
MASTER-88: 2013-08-21 07:30:54 pm
MASTER-88: 2013-08-21 07:30:29 pm
MASTER-88: 2013-08-20 08:36:57 am
MASTER-88: 2013-08-20 08:36:32 am
Master-88
Game not have any speedrun record and not any TAS runs.

Im not own that game yet, just emulator practice. I might try buy it in ebay later.

Im did some plans:

Level 1 speedrun plans


+Boomerang (i think you could take lvl 2 if you not want manipulated it galago tunnel)
+Grenade lvl 2
+Arrow power kill boss instantly (buy it in shop)

Level 2 speedrun plans


+Pick up (arrow power, wing power & lifepower)
+Not need shop visit here)
+About boss you can kill it used arrow power but then you not own arrow power level 3 anymore. But i personally think its faster kill level 3 boss without arrow power)

Level 3 speedrun plans


+Wing power is useful here. Let see you can skip all walls.
+Shop is pointless here because there is no arrow power item
+I used arrow power with boss but if you are used it level 2 boss you not have it then simply used grenades with boss.

Level 4 speedrun plans


+Shop visit. Buy arrow power but not use it here. This boss is fast to kill with grenades.

Level 5 speedrun plans


+Armor power and health power is both useful here. There is lot enemies. I used armor power with begin but i think its better with end.
+Use arrow power (buy level 4 shop) against demon dog (mini boss) you can,t use it with last boss.
+Last boss is pain ass. There is not much better strategy make it.  Just keep you rhythm and try you best.
Thread title:  
Master-88
I did first run in 13:15


Its pretty crap run just pure test run, i just wanted test my route planning. I did tons mistakes. Some nerves mistakes and etc memory stuff.  This is also my first completion without continue code. Im not know how much i want put effort emulator run.  I think i have to pick up this game my NES and try some serious run. 12:30 is definitely very possible. Sub 12 might be possible.

I have to look out ebay can i find working cart. Then my next trouble will be how i can recorded runs in SDA without DVD recorder.  My old DVD recorded got broken some years ago. Im not have working recorded system. Though i have openbroadcast software (i did recorded Metroid Prime runs) but its not are SDA stanard quality.
Terraffirmative!
Amazing. This is a game I never thought would have anything resembling a run. Good luck on getting something submittable, I for one am looking forward to seeing this mess get destroyed.
Is PJ
You are a brave man, Master-88!  Good luck!
Elkovsky on Nintendo Age posted this earlier this year:

Quote:
Apparently, the final boss can be defeated with an earthquake powerup (or whatever the first one is on your inventory screen) if you use it just before scrolling the screen all the way to the top. It triggers the usual garbled scream, skips the pre-boss speech, and rolls the credits. No cheat code was used to trigger this - it's just a side effect of Micronics' crappy programming. I can't remember exactly how far up the screen was scrolled, because I totally wasn't expecting this to happen.
Edit history:
MASTER-88: 2013-07-18 09:59:02 am
MASTER-88: 2013-07-18 09:25:19 am
Master-88
I just bought this game cart in ebay.  Hopefully its working cart.

Its long time ago when i recorded games in SDA (my previous runs here are played 2009-2010 IIRC) Then i used DVD recorder. But rightnow im not have working DVD recorder. I still have easycap & openbroadcast system. This make me possible recorder cube & wii games casually. Let see can i solved recorded trouble. Im not have any idea what i´ll need make good quality NES game videos without working DVD system.  I know SDA is really nitpicking with qualitys.

EDIT:
Quality test is up tech support comments here.
Following.

Now if only there was an original Ikari Warriors run...
Where's PJ?  Oh, there he is!  ^^^
Cigar Man
Quote from Working DK:
Now if only there was an original Ikari Warriors run...
Where's PJ?  Oh, there he is!  ^^^


Seconded.
Edit history:
MASTER-88: 2013-07-19 02:01:36 am
MASTER-88: 2013-07-19 01:55:15 am
Master-88
Themexicanrunner (speedrunlive) give me all this motivation play that game. Its his list top 30 hardest nes games into world. I trying play that game some years ago my emulator but i never pass first level and game seems just totally crap im not wanted put anymore effort with this then. When i see mexicanrunner did his playthrough but he not beat this game thats give me all motivation try beat one hardest game ever.

But yeah then  i started practice and this game seems very beatable. I did test run my emulator 13:15. Now i wait when i pick up this cart my NES (i bought it yesterday). If quality and other recorded things are okay i´ll try good run in SDA.  I´ll hope sub 12 minutes run.

About galago tunnels (red room end of the level) im not have ideas how these RNG working. I think its like a lot SMB 3 hands. There is 50% change per each tunnel (weapons or enemys). Then this is more rare avoid all tunnels than SMB 3 hands. I was really lucky my test run and i avoid all. But its most important avoid last tunnel, because its probably hardest room entire game. Its nearly always kill instantly or drain nearly all energys.

But like i already say. There is nothing information with this game. No tas videos, no other speedruns. Those  all speedrun plans i did is my own. So there might be better routes and etc.. then time will be lower than what i thinking. But current strategys and routes could aim "good run" somewhere 11:50-12:15 range. My 13:15 was totally crap but route planning working very well and awesome rng with galago tunnels.
Go get 'em M88.  At least getting any Ikari game up would be great.  thumbsup
Edit history:
MASTER-88: 2013-07-25 08:00:50 am
MASTER-88: 2013-07-25 08:00:10 am
Master-88
Quote from scaryice:
Elkovsky on Nintendo Age posted this earlier this year:

Quote:
Apparently, the final boss can be defeated with an earthquake powerup (or whatever the first one is on your inventory screen) if you use it just before scrolling the screen all the way to the top. It triggers the usual garbled scream, skips the pre-boss speech, and rolls the credits. No cheat code was used to trigger this - it's just a side effect of Micronics' crappy programming. I can't remember exactly how far up the screen was scrolled, because I totally wasn't expecting this to happen.



I see its working, but its really hard (requires flash power up)


One single pixel timing. I failed it twice my video so you can see it is hard.

Its might save some time especially long cutscenes before boss fight.  Last boss itself is not that long. Right now this seems very luck based use any serious speedruns. But i think if i can consistent that its could be nice time saver.
Edit history:
MASTER-88: 2013-07-25 01:11:13 pm
MASTER-88: 2013-07-25 01:07:16 pm
MASTER-88: 2013-07-25 11:34:39 am
MASTER-88: 2013-07-25 11:31:13 am
Master-88
New plans is done. I think this game could be even under 11:30. New boss strategys used armor power rushing is cool.  And those new ID level videos is much cooler looking than previous ones.

Level 1 new plans


+Pretty similar as last time.
+Got boomerang (lvl 1 is enought)
+Got grenade level 2
+Buy arrow power
+Got armor power
Boss:
kill with one arrow

Level 2 plans

+Got wing power
+Got flash power (use it last boss)
+Got energy power
+Got arrow power
Boss:
Use armor power and rush it you got it level 1

Level 3 plans


Pretty similar as last time.
+Use wing power
+Got energy power
Boss:
Kill use arrow power (you got it level 2)

Level 4 plans


Okay some news here
+Got armor power (need level 5 boss)
+Got energy power
+Skip shop visit (its save around 10 seconds time)
Boss:
Kill it used grenades. Believe me its faster than buy arrow power in shop. About armor power its doesn´t caused damage with boss only grenades caused and arrow power too.

Level 5 plans


This level is damn hard all my new strategys
+Got wing power and used it. Its faster than walking
Boss: Demon dog
Use armor power and rush him
Boss: Zada
Use flash one pixel timing and kill him. Okay this is really important and at least its worth try it. Its also really hard one. I can make it around 10-20% of the time.

Comments and questions are welcomed


EDIT:
About glitch skip last boss. I did several different test. There is absolutely no way make it safety walking. Screen have to be scroll all time. So this trick have to be done without stopping. Just walk straight and push item button right same times as cutscenes appear. One single pixel timing. I think if i learn use that 25% of the time its could be very good succesrate in speedrun. succesrate like 10% if fucking bad because this game is not easy and there is tons random things here and there.

And yeah i bought game in last week in ebay. Im not have pick up it yet.  But i think my strategy planning is totally ready rightnow. My new strategys seems very good i did several different test and i think those new routes i did is fastest possible.
Hi Master-88! Nice to see you working on something again. For the occasion, I just played through this game. I watched your videos afterwards and could immediately spot two things.
- In level 1, there are two armors. Pick up the first one and then select it before the tower containing the second one comes into sight. You can then pick up that armor and still have time to take out the boss while in the armor. This way you don't need to visit the shop to buy the arrow.
- Just a minor detail. It seems like the character is moving slower in the water than on land. At the shop in level 2, could you try to walk more on that island? Or is diagonal walking as slow as walking in water?
Edit history:
MASTER-88: 2013-07-25 08:48:36 pm
Master-88
Quote from ktwo:
Hi Master-88! Nice to see you working on something again. For the occasion, I just played through this game. I watched your videos afterwards and could immediately spot two things.
- In level 1, there are two armors. Pick up the first one and then select it before the tower containing the second one comes into sight. You can then pick up that armor and still have time to take out the boss while in the armor. This way you don't need to visit the shop to buy the arrow.
- Just a minor detail. It seems like the character is moving slower in the water than on land. At the shop in level 2, could you try to walk more on that island? Or is diagonal walking as slow as walking in water?


Thanks your comment.
Level 1
WTF fuck 2 armor power up??. Im not never are find this 2nd one LOL. Yeah thats really important time saver shop visit easily take 20 seconds. I´ll go for check out this next.

About level 2. Yeah its little bit faster. Good point. Im not have idea is diagonal walking slower but its not seems much slower/faster.

EDIT:
Level 1 new (without shop visit


Thanks Ktwo. This time saver is huge.
I decided to play the game a few more times today to at least beat it once without the ABBA code. I think everyone who played this game knows what kind of crap this is, so I won't comment more on that... Well, I'm glad I'm done with it. I also came up with a few more ideas.
- In level 1, take the small path to the left of the shop and then activate armor. There are some destroyable blocks behind the shop that disappears once you leave the menu. This should save it tiny bit of time by avoiding some diagonal/horizontal walking.
- I know the boomerang is far superior to the other weapons, but it's also 7.5 seconds spent in the menu on every level. Have you thoroughly tried if it'd be possible to get through for example level 1 with only the machine gun? You could also try to experiment a bit in level 3 if it's not possible to avoid one of the menu trips (the first to switch to boomerang and the second to activate the wings). Could you do both in one go? I haven't tried either of those out, but it just seems like even if it's not entirely optimal for getting through the levels, you might still end up saving time because of how slow the menu is.
Master-88
Quote from ktwo:
I decided to play the game a few more times today to at least beat it once without the ABBA code. I think everyone who played this game knows what kind of crap this is, so I won't comment more on that... Well, I'm glad I'm done with it. I also came up with a few more ideas.
- In level 1, take the small path to the left of the shop and then activate armor. There are some destroyable blocks behind the shop that disappears once you leave the menu. This should save it tiny bit of time by avoiding some diagonal/horizontal walking.
- I know the boomerang is far superior to the other weapons, but it's also 7.5 seconds spent in the menu on every level. Have you thoroughly tried if it'd be possible to get through for example level 1 with only the machine gun? You could also try to experiment a bit in level 3 if it's not possible to avoid one of the menu trips (the first to switch to boomerang and the second to activate the wings). Could you do both in one go? I haven't tried either of those out, but it just seems like even if it's not entirely optimal for getting through the levels, you might still end up saving time because of how slow the menu is.


Okay thats nice. BTW my first completion without that code was 13:15. Its totally crap speedrun, but im not want put anymore effort try beat it my emulator (computer keyboard controlls truly suck). I´ll wait my cart my NES i´ll be try serious speedrun my Nes. Rightnow this seems i have to be go 11:30. its surely possible. I think sub 11 is possible but then run have to be really good one.

Okay i think its very good idea pick up boomerang and energy both begin of the each level. Machine gun make this way too hard at least for me. Maybe TAS guys can make this.

Did you are test how RNG in galago tunnels (red room) end of the levels working?  I can,t understand this. I personally think its depend your points??
Edit history:
ktwo: 2013-07-26 09:28:55 am
Level 1 with only the machine gun is definitely harder. But since all the enemies spawn in the same spots every time, maybe one could come up with a route for it (especially by timing the grenades and not just use the auto-fire function). But I don't know. It was just an idea. However, you should definitely cut ut one of the menu trips in level 3. At the start of the level, select both the boomerang and the wings. As long as you don't throw any grenades, you won't activate the wings. The first section is very doable with only boomerangs. When you reach the ruins (or whatever it's supposed to be), press A to activate the wings.

I don't know how the tunnels work. It seems like it's determined if you get power-ups or enemies in the tunnels already by the time you get there. I haven't tested enough to know if it has to do with the points or not. In any case, my impression was that if you get power-ups in the first tunnel, it's a good chance you continue getting power-ups in the following tunnels as well (but not guaranteed). And if you get enemies in the first tunnel, you're likely to continue getting enemies in the following tunnels.

Edit: It looks like you can save a trip to the menu in level 5 as well. Start out with the machine gun until you reach the wing item (not easy, but still doable - I would recommend trying it out by going through the first rock on the left side). Then go to the menu and select the boomerangs and the wings. From there on you should be able to get all the way to the boss. I know you used life in your video, but you actually didn't need it.
Master-88
I totally agree your ideas. Avoid select as long as possible save a lot time in game, but its make it incredible luck based too. I think TAS could pass entire game without taking boomerang and without taking energys. its could be super nice on console but im not believe its never happen.

Last boss flash method only is really hard luck base.  Its might be cool looking in speedrun i know i´ll dying it often because it was quite hard even with savestates.
I tried level 3 and 5 from save states and could after a few tries clear them pretty much every time with only one trip to the menu. Honestly, you should try it. Each one will save 5 seconds or so.

Level 3:
Level 5:
(I'm gonna delete both of these in a couple of days)
Edit history:
MASTER-88: 2013-07-26 12:21:12 pm
MASTER-88: 2013-07-26 12:14:17 pm
Master-88
Quote from ktwo:
I tried level 3 and 5 from save states and could after a few tries clear them pretty much every time with only one trip to the menu. Honestly, you should try it. Each one will save 5 seconds or so.

Level 3:
Level 5:
(I'm gonna delete both of these in a couple of days)


Nice. Yeah i should try those. Im not think these are my trouble in savestate run, but i can.t consistent that flying parts without taking damage.  So making real speedrun make game so luck based without energy taken.  Yeah its around 10 seconds time saver skip both menus. Especially level 5 is so pain.
Edit history:
MASTER-88: 2013-07-31 07:07:10 pm
MASTER-88: 2013-07-31 07:04:43 pm
MASTER-88: 2013-07-31 01:24:14 pm
MASTER-88: 2013-07-31 01:22:14 pm
Master-88
Im not have pick up game yet even i bought it nearly two weeks ago. I´ll hope my cart coming soon. But yeah more practice and planning.

Level 2 speedrun v3. Around 10 seconds faster. Magic mirror skip at end thats avoid me dodge that mirror without going water. Nothing much news


Level 3 speedrun v3 used ktwo method


Level 3 energy power skip is actually quite easy. even without full energys. I think i could use that my speedrun later. Level 5 selection skip is HARD AS HELL. I can,t make that even used savestate. I´ll always die or lost tons energys. Pea shooter is simply horrible weapon.

Rightnow im just practice galago tunnels. 1 is quite easy and 2 is easiest. 3 tunnel caused sometimes hard. 4 is pure luck.

Last boss skip is still hard but my succesrate are went quite bit. Rightnow i can make it around 33% of the time. I roughly know where this flash have to be used. But its still insane precise.

EDIT:
Level 1 pea shooter route plan


This one is so fucking hard. Im pretty sure im didn,t going try that my single segment speedrun. Maybe use it in future runs if i can consistent everythings well enought. Its important avoid losting anymore damage more than two. Otherwise its make really hard pass all three first levels without energy power. Yeah and pea shooter is truly crap weapon and horrible game controlls didn´t  make that any easier. But yeah its possible and its possible without taking any damage too, but requires insane amount good luck. Its not happen my video but this plan look optimize well i wanted.
Nice improvement of level 2.

I notice how you several times mention that you need luck to pass certain sections. From what I can see, there is no (or at least very little) luck involved. The number of enemies is fixed and they always spawn in the same locations. The ones that shoot do so in one of 8 directions and they shoot depending on your current position, not randomly. My guess is that their movements are also determined by your position. If you move in the same way, the enemies should also behave the same way every time. When I look at your videos, you often move diagonally back and forth, while spamming fire. Not only does this slow you down (diagonal walking is roughly 40% slower than vertical walking), but it also gives you an impression of rng since you're never able to move in the same pattern two attempts in a row. What I suggest is just move in a straight vertical line as long as possible (while holding down fire of course). You will shoot some enemies, some enemies won't bother you and some will pose a problem. When an enemy poses a problem, try a different x-position to walk along or just accept that you will sometimes have to change x-position at some points in a level. A good example is level 3. Compare my video with yours. I start out walking diagonally until I'm aligned with the shoulder of the left statue. From there on, I just walk/fly in a straight line. I always get the same patterns from the enemies. You constantly twitch back and forth diagonally in your video, both wasting time and possibly also exposing yourself to the risk of having an enemy behaving in an unintended way.

I believe the reason why you're experiencing problems in level 5 with the pea shooter is for the same reason above. Take out the first enemy on the left side with a grenade, make a quick stop to dodge the bullets from the enemy on the right (always the same pattern), press on along the left side until you reach the wings and then you're done. That's also what's shown in my video of level 5. The flying section is not easy at first, but once you know where all the enemies spawn, you can get through that section consistently as well.

Good to see you investigating level 1 with the pea shooter. Once you memorize where all the enemies spawn, it should be easier to see how feasible it is. It will clearly require more testing than the other improvements though.

About the tunnels, my immediate feeling is that it's a reset if you get enemies in tunnel 1. Like I said in my previous post, it seems like you're likely to either get items in all tunnels or enemies in all of them. I know that it's not a 100% rule though.

Finally, I did some quick testing on movement speed. Diagonal walking and vertical walking in water are about the same speed. They're both ~40% slower than vertical walking on land. Diagonal walking in water is ~35% slower than diagonal walking on land/vertical walking in water.
Master-88
Yeah but those enemys bullets is main trouble. Those fly so quick and its trouble. Im not sure is that all luck required but i can,t consistent dodge those bullets. If i stand wrong place its surely take hit. Slow gaming controlls didn´t allow your dodge those bullets.

Level 2 pea shooter run is here (no damage taken)


First two part is easy, but latest part is hell. I did horrible looking boss fight (this is only boss where this hit box is so weird i never had trouble beat level 1 & 5 bosses) but its still faster than previous video with boomerang. Flying butterflys at end is truly hard i usually lost at least 3 energy bar.

But fact is im not going make all those pea shooter runs my next single segments runs. Maybe in future runs i might add some very hard time savers depend how consistent i am. This took me 30 minutes beat level 2 only with this strategy. So its not easy.

BTW nice movement test ktwo

Quote:
About the tunnels, my immediate feeling is that it's a reset if you get enemies in tunnel 1. Like I said in my previous post, it seems like you're likely to either get items in all tunnels or enemies in all of them. I know that it's not a 100% rule though.


Im not believe its working like this. Yesterday i got 3/4 galago tunnels my test playthrough. IMO its seems totally random is there galagos or not. 

Edit history:
MASTER-88: 2013-08-01 12:53:10 pm
MASTER-88: 2013-08-01 12:25:57 pm
Master-88
Level 5 new plan v3 (no damage taken)


I did starting little bit different than ktwo video that not requires any stop and i surprised i was quite consistent with this around 50/50%. Flying part is really nasty one. This game like lag like crazy here and i cannot see any bullets. just pure luck survive.
Quote:
A good example is level 3. Compare my video with yours. I start out walking diagonally until I'm aligned with the shoulder of the left statue. From there on, I just walk/fly in a straight line. I always get the same patterns from the enemies. You constantly twitch back and forth diagonally in your video, both wasting time and possibly also exposing yourself to the risk of having an enemy behaving in an unintended way.


Fixed rightnow. Level 3 speedrun v4 no damage run


Its around 2 seconds faster than my previous route. Yeah thats not seems random and could be used single segment run too.

About level 4. Its probably hardest level without taking any damage and without wasting time. Yesrday i spend good one hour with this and im didn´t find any good route/strategys with this and i got some no damage runs but not without wasting time. Also level 5 flying section seems nearly 100% luck. Im not sure lag console like emulator but this part seems super hard even you roughly know where enemies located.

But yeah three first levels is pretty easy without pea shooter strategys rightnow and i can quite consistent make those without taking damage and without wasting time.