Hydra Castle Labyrinth

Edit history:

ozzy88: 2012-05-14 06:32:33 am

2012-05-14 06:18:35 am

You've seen me working on the map, not really been running it but I made the map for routing purposes. It might be ready to view on VGMaps this weekend. Was going to map out the dungeons after this but maybe I should do the item location and final version for the main area first...

I've been wanting to see this game get some kind of speedrun attention for a while and I'm happy you picked it up. As for your current route, I don't really know what amount of time you can save for each item you pick up, contra not getting them.

Edit:
I'd like to see how you get around the castle, just make a slow segmented run or something so I can see how you move. Because there are some time savers I know about that I could show you. Also, why get the arrows at all? Boomerang is pretty much the same type of weapon and hits multiple times.

2012-05-15 01:04:06 am

The main reason for getting the arrow is to save some time in the third dungeon (when you need to kill three yellow slimes to the left) and when clearing out corridors with red bats (dungeon... five? and outside of dungeon four mostly). Not really necessary, I've been thinking of cutting them, but they have helped with getting the rhythm going.

I'll try to stream a couple of attempts the next couple of days, if I see you online I'll make sure to let you know, otherwise I'll just link the videos here later on. Smiley

Edit history:

ozzy88: 2012-05-15 01:48:16 am

2012-05-15 01:47:19 am

Alright! Btw...that map I submitted. I apperently didn't send the mail, it got into my outbox instead ><

I've been thinking about fixing some of the more noticeable errors and now I might as well do that before I submit it. So sorry but the map will not be ready this weekend. But next weekend it should look pretty at least :3

Edit history:

ibldedibble: 2012-05-17 05:43:46 am

ibldedibble: 2012-05-16 02:45:36 pm

ibldedibble: 2012-05-15 10:03:22 am

2012-05-15 10:01:31 am

Managed to beat my old time and got a new record of 47:24. I was really lucky with ammo drops, but I made some mistakes. Sub-47 should be very possible, only counting Dodo's Den and Gyra's Bog I lost eight to ten seconds compared to my best times through those dungeons.
Also, I did save a couple of times just to be safe when I was that much ahead of my old time (forgot to save the 49:48 run in wsplit, so I just wanted a faster one there. :P).
Sadly the ending got cut out of the stream because my net died, but it's basically just the hydra battle left and that was more or less perfect.
http://sv.twitch.tv/ibldedibble/b/318422425
(Is it possible to embed the video instead of just linking it?)

Looking forward to seeing the map! I know a friend of mine is considering a 100% run of the game and he'd love to have the map. ^^

2012-05-15 02:34:29 pm

I'll be sure to give it a watch when I get home tomorrow.

Quote:

(Is it possible to embed the video instead of just linking it?)

Check the gear (options) under the screen at the highlight, maybe options for embeds there?

Quote:

Looking forward to seeing the map! I know a friend of mine is considering a 100% run of the game and he'd love to have the map. ^^

Ow, it seems my mail got sent after all. But I've got no response from the vgmaps.com guy yet, so maybe he's actually thinking about allowing it on the site. He could also have too much to do at the moment, who knows.

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2012-05-15 06:52:08 pm

2012-05-15 04:30:24 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

I did at one point have an entire route planned out for the game. Although I think it was a 100% route. I'll play through it a few times and see if I can give you any tips.

Edit: K I watched your run and the first three dungeons were pretty awesome. However the later dungeons need some work. In Dungeons 4 and 7 you are extremely cautious. Most of the points where you wait to kill the enemies you can jump through and bum rush it.

As for Dungeon 5 and 6 I would strongly suggest you get the axe. For Dungeon 5 the dungeon was really good except for the point with the disappeary guys (Use arrows it's more effective) and when you were leaving the part after you got the cross you took the long route. The boss of Dungeon 5 however was pretty slow. If you grab the axe you can literally beat him before he teleports a third time by just standing under him and smashing the ammo button. This does use up about 50 ammo though but can save a good 45 seconds. To be honest grinding up 50 ammo would take about 20 seconds so I strongly suggest this. In dungeon 6 you can completely skip the feather. As for the rooms with the bats you can double jump and throw and axe to hit them. Saves about another minute.

In dungeon 6 and 7 I would recommend you not save before the boss, it wastes time.

Oh a note at the beginning of the run, rather than going down two ladders after the pick, go once screen to the right and drop down the pits. Then a few more screens over that brings you to a ladder that is shorter than both of the ladders you were taking before and you are already passing by where it let's you off. Basically it's a 20 second time saver.

Finally for dungeon 8 I would recommend you grab the bombs. Throw a bomb over the ladder, climb part way down on it. Let the bomb hit you and you will fall down onto the barrier. Use the boomerangs to break both power generators and you will go through it. Do this again and you will skip virtually the entire dungeon. Wink

That's all for now.

I did at one point have an entire route planned out for the game. Although I think it was a 100% route. I'll play through it a few times and see if I can give you any tips.

Edit: K I watched your run and the first three dungeons were pretty awesome.  However the later dungeons need some work. In Dungeons 4 and 7 you are extremely cautious. Most of the points where you wait to kill the enemies you can jump through and bum rush it.

As for Dungeon 5 and 6 I would strongly suggest you get the axe. For Dungeon 5 the dungeon was really good except for the point with the disappeary guys (Use arrows it's more effective) and when you were leaving the part after you got the cross you took the long route. The boss of Dungeon 5 however was pretty slow. If you grab the axe you can literally beat him before he teleports a third time by just standing under him and smashing the ammo button. This does use up about 50 ammo though but can save a good 45 seconds. To be honest grinding up 50 ammo would take about 20 seconds so I strongly suggest this. In dungeon 6 you can completely skip the feather. As for the rooms with the bats you can double jump and throw and axe to hit them. Saves about another minute.

In dungeon 6 and 7 I would recommend you not save before the boss, it wastes time.

Oh a note at the beginning of the run, rather than going down two ladders after the pick, go once screen to the right and drop down the pits. Then a few more screens over that brings you to a ladder that is shorter than both of the ladders you were taking before and you are already passing by where it let's you off. Basically it's a 20 second time saver.

Finally for dungeon 8 I would recommend you grab the bombs. Throw a bomb over the ladder, climb part way down on it. Let the bomb hit you and you will fall down onto the barrier. Use the boomerangs to break both power generators and you will go through it. Do this again and you will skip virtually the entire dungeon. ;)

That's all for now.

2012-05-15 08:28:14 pm

I am encyclopedia

You should probably take a look at the Japanese TAS, which you can find here. The zips are doable in real time quite easily, and save a lot of time in both the Castle and the Dungeons. I suggest you try to learn them, they're really fun. But a Zipless category would probably also be acceptable.

Anyways, some friends and I are probably going to start running/racing this game casually, so you should let us know if you want to race or something!

2012-05-16 03:23:20 am

Quote from Anonymous52555:

Edit: K I watched your run and the first three dungeons were pretty awesome. However the later dungeons need some work. In Dungeons 4 and 7 you are extremely cautious. Most of the points where you wait to kill the enemies you can jump through and bum rush it.

I know I'm really cautious, it's mostly because I was getting a pretty good time and wanted to make sure to get a new time for wsplit. Tongue

Will be less cautious in a future attempts. Smiley

Quote from Anonymous52555:

As for Dungeon 5 and 6 I would strongly suggest you get the axe. For Dungeon 5 the dungeon was really good except for the point with the disappeary guys (Use arrows it's more effective) and when you were leaving the part after you got the cross you took the long route. The boss of Dungeon 5 however was pretty slow. If you grab the axe you can literally beat him before he teleports a third time by just standing under him and smashing the ammo button. This does use up about 50 ammo though but can save a good 45 seconds. To be honest grinding up 50 ammo would take about 20 seconds so I strongly suggest this. In dungeon 6 you can completely skip the feather. As for the rooms with the bats you can double jump and throw and axe to hit them. Saves about another minute.

The main reason for using the boomerang in the room with the disappearing guys is that you can hit them all with only one or two boomerangs (I've had this happen twice before, didn't get quite as lucky this time).
The boss fight was pretty bad, haven't considered the axe for it (I have considered getting the axe for the hydra however, which requires a lot more ammo, but is faster than boomerangs).
For some reason I keep thinking that I need to have the feather, but you're right. Didn't think about that strategy, will change that in the future as well!

Quote from Anonymous52555:

In dungeon 6 and 7 I would recommend you not save before the boss, it wastes time.

I know, like I said before, it was only to make sure that I got a new time for wsplit. Tongue

I've made too many mistakes on those bosses before. Won't happen in the future. Smiley

Quote from Anonymous52555:

Oh a note at the beginning of the run, rather than going down two ladders after the pick, go once screen to the right and drop down the pits. Then a few more screens over that brings you to a ladder that is shorter than both of the ladders you were taking before and you are already passing by where it let's you off. Basically it's a 20 second time saver.

I did that before, don't know why I didn't to it this time around... probably just forgot about it.

Quote from Anonymous52555:

Finally for dungeon 8 I would recommend you grab the bombs. Throw a bomb over the ladder, climb part way down on it. Let the bomb hit you and you will fall down onto the barrier. Use the boomerangs to break both power generators and you will go through it. Do this again and you will skip virtually the entire dungeon. Wink

I didn't know about that, I guess I'll have a new strategy for that dungeon then! When do you think I should get the bombs? I don't even remember where they are right now...

Quote from Anonymous52555:

That's all for now.

Thanks for the comments!

Quote from AxonZin:

You should probably take a look at the Japanese TAS, which you can find here. The zips are doable in real time quite easily, and save a lot of time in both the Castle and the Dungeons. I suggest you try to learn them, they're really fun. But a Zipless category would probably also be acceptable.

I'll take a look at it when I get home, thanks for the tip.
I'll probably try to do a run that uses as few glitches as possible, but who knows, I might try it in the future! Smiley

Quote from AxonZin:

Anyways, some friends and I are probably going to start running/racing this game casually, so you should let us know if you want to race or something!

Absolutely!

[quote="Anonymous52555"]Edit: K I watched your run and the first three dungeons were pretty awesome.  However the later dungeons need some work. In Dungeons 4 and 7 you are extremely cautious. Most of the points where you wait to kill the enemies you can jump through and bum rush it. [/quote]
I know I'm really cautious, it's mostly because I was getting a pretty good time and wanted to make sure to get a new time for wsplit. :P
Will be less cautious in a future attempts. :)

[quote="Anonymous52555"]As for Dungeon 5 and 6 I would strongly suggest you get the axe. For Dungeon 5 the dungeon was really good except for the point with the disappeary guys (Use arrows it's more effective) and when you were leaving the part after you got the cross you took the long route. The boss of Dungeon 5 however was pretty slow. If you grab the axe you can literally beat him before he teleports a third time by just standing under him and smashing the ammo button. This does use up about 50 ammo though but can save a good 45 seconds. To be honest grinding up 50 ammo would take about 20 seconds so I strongly suggest this. In dungeon 6 you can completely skip the feather. As for the rooms with the bats you can double jump and throw and axe to hit them. Saves about another minute.[/quote]
The main reason for using the boomerang in the room with the disappearing guys is that you can hit them all with only one or two boomerangs (I've had this happen twice before, didn't get quite as lucky this time).
The boss fight was pretty bad, haven't considered the axe for it (I have considered getting the axe for the hydra however, which requires a lot more ammo, but is faster than boomerangs).
For some reason I keep thinking that I need to have the feather, but you're right. Didn't think about that strategy, will change that in the future as well!

[quote="Anonymous52555"]In dungeon 6 and 7 I would recommend you not save before the boss, it wastes time.[/quote]
I know, like I said before, it was only to make sure that I got a new time for wsplit. :P I've made too many mistakes on those bosses before. Won't happen in the future. :)

[quote="Anonymous52555"]Oh a note at the beginning of the run, rather than going down two ladders after the pick, go once screen to the right and drop down the pits. Then a few more screens over that brings you to a ladder that is shorter than both of the ladders you were taking before and you are already passing by where it let's you off. Basically it's a 20 second time saver.[/quote]
I did that before, don't know why I didn't to it this time around... probably just forgot about it.

[quote="Anonymous52555"]Finally for dungeon 8 I would recommend you grab the bombs. Throw a bomb over the ladder, climb part way down on it. Let the bomb hit you and you will fall down onto the barrier. Use the boomerangs to break both power generators and you will go through it. Do this again and you will skip virtually the entire dungeon. ;)[/quote]
I didn't know about that, I guess I'll have a new strategy for that dungeon then! When do you think I should get the bombs? I don't even remember where they are right now...

[quote="Anonymous52555"]That's all for now.[/quote]
Thanks for the comments!

[quote="AxonZin"]You should probably take a look at the Japanese TAS, which you can find [url=http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm15483467]here[/url]. The zips are doable in real time quite easily, and save a lot of time in both the Castle and the Dungeons. I suggest you try to learn them, they're really fun. But a Zipless category would probably also be acceptable.[/quote]
I'll take a look at it when I get home, thanks for the tip.
I'll probably try to do a run that uses as few glitches as possible, but who knows, I might try it in the future! :)

[quote="AxonZin"]Anyways, some friends and I are probably going to start running/racing this game casually, so you should let us know if you want to race or something![/quote]
Absolutely!

Edit history:

AxonZin: 2012-05-16 09:22:23 am

AxonZin: 2012-05-16 09:16:40 am

2012-05-16 09:02:43 am

I am encyclopedia

I've made a video with the trick. The description explains pretty much all of it so I'll paste it here.

Quote:

There are a few tricks to getting this to work. This biggest thing is that your bomb needs to land on the center of the ladder. You have a few pixels of leniency.

Once you're in the wall, you'll start zipping right always. Holding left will stop yourself inside the wall. Jumping will move you down. You'll also stop moving when you reach the edges of the screen, in which case just press right to move to the next screen and continue zipping.

Sometimes, after using a screen transition, you'll get stuck in the left side of the screen. The best way I've found to prevent this is to make sure you are holding LEFT after you have entered the screen transition. This will usually let you zip.

If you leave the boundaries of the castle, the game will reset back to the menu.

EDIT: Here's another big timesaver from the TAS.

This one's pretty self explanatory. Just knock yourself off the ladder with a bomb and use boomerangs to destroy the lasers.

I've made a video with the trick. The description explains pretty much all of it so I'll paste it here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHz9JPiaLKI

[quote]There are a few tricks to getting this to work. This biggest thing is that your bomb needs to land on the center of the ladder. You have a few pixels of leniency.

Once you're in the wall, you'll start zipping right always. Holding left will stop yourself inside the wall. Jumping will move you down. You'll also stop moving when you reach the edges of the screen, in which case just press right to move to the next screen and continue zipping.

Sometimes, after using a screen transition, you'll get stuck in the left side of the screen. The best way I've found to prevent this is to make sure you are holding LEFT after you have entered the screen transition. This will usually let you zip.

If you leave the boundaries of the castle, the game will reset back to the menu.[/quote]

EDIT: Here's another big timesaver from the TAS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYFMHfWEhgU

This one's pretty self explanatory. Just knock yourself off the ladder with a bomb and use boomerangs to destroy the lasers.

Exo

Edit history:

Exo: 2012-05-16 10:19:51 am

2012-05-16 10:19:42 am

Sandbagging

Cool stuff axon Smiley

Edit history:

ozzy88: 2012-05-16 11:38:56 am

2012-05-16 10:27:21 am

I've had the game zip me down when I walked thru a screen transition, I went outside the dungeon and got to the main menu....3 times in a row. Never happened again tho.

Edit:

Ok now I've seen dibble's run, O.O

I give up. You should however keep up the good work and try out the tips you got from Axon and Anon ^^

Hsanrb

2012-05-16 03:04:48 pm

Just did a very casual 100% no zips (no OoB) but I do skip the dodos in the final dungeon and I got a 45:28 RTA (its like 44:10 game time)
http://www.justin.tv/hsanrb/b/318423951

You have to go 3m in since I did a stream quality test and I reset over missing early platform, this is my 4th full timed run so I'm still trying to get the castle into memory and not get lost in which boss doors are where and what items I get before/after each dungeon.

2012-05-16 04:25:09 pm

I am encyclopedia

41%

Exo

2012-05-16 05:21:40 pm

Sandbagging

Sexy. Can't wait for the final route :3

Anonymous52555

2012-05-16 07:09:00 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

A 41% speed run would be pretty awesome.

Um iblde. I would suggest getting the bombs when you head out to dungeon 4(provided you are doing a zipless run), they are just a few screens to the left from where you drop down for the gills.

2012-05-17 02:15:06 pm

Alright!!!

What? Oh!

I've fixed some of the worst error with my map and removed the enemies from the first column. Looks good. After this the hard parts begin I think. Adding item locations in a nice looking way. Don't know how I will do that right now :/

Well, that's that for those who are interested D:

Hsanrb

2012-05-17 03:54:53 pm

Not sure I want to run this game, this seems to get real nasty with the rng, either its based on how many sub weapons you have (as in if you have some, you get more, if you have none you get none), or that it gets worse the longer the program is open.

2012-05-18 04:56:26 am

I did some testing last night on Dodo, I don't know if it's because I was tired or not, but it almost felt like you could kill Dodo faster if you make sure to keep only one boomerang inside it at all times, instead of spamming two every time.

Also, using the axe on Bat saves about 20 seconds on my run. Will do some more testing on Lolidra, Devil and Hydra with the axe as well, should be able to save a lot of time on all of those if I find some place to grind up ammo (or if the RNG loves me).
I'm considering testing the arrow on Dodo, anyone know if it's faster or not?

The best zipless time I've managed to get is something like 36 seconds faster after Golgia compared to my last recorded run.

Quote from Anonymous52555:

Um iblde. I would suggest getting the bombs when you head out to dungeon 4(provided you are doing a zipless run), they are just a few screens to the left from where you drop down for the gills.

Yeah, I found them. I've got a fairly quick and easy way to get them, probably not the fastest way to kill all the statues, but it's something.

Quote from Hsanrb:

Not sure I want to run this game, this seems to get real nasty with the rng, either its based on how many sub weapons you have (as in if you have some, you get more, if you have none you get none), or that it gets worse the longer the program is open.

The RNG really is horrible some times, that's RNG for you. But yeah, when you have a lot of ammo it certainly feels like you're getting more.

I did some testing last night on Dodo, I don't know if it's because I was tired or not, but it almost felt like you could kill Dodo faster if you make sure to keep only one boomerang inside it at all times, instead of spamming two every time.

Also, using the axe on Bat saves about 20 seconds on my run. Will do some more testing on Lolidra, Devil and Hydra with the axe as well, should be able to save a lot of time on all of those if I find some place to grind up ammo (or if the RNG loves me).
I'm considering testing the arrow on Dodo, anyone know if it's faster or not?

The best zipless time I've managed to get is something like 36 seconds faster after Golgia compared to my last recorded run.

[quote="Anonymous52555"]Um iblde. I would suggest getting the bombs when you head out to dungeon 4(provided you are doing a zipless run), they are just a few screens to the left from where you drop down for the gills.[/quote]
Yeah, I found them. I've got a fairly quick and easy way to get them, probably not the fastest way to kill all the statues, but it's something.

[quote="Hsanrb"]Not sure I want to run this game, this seems to get real nasty with the rng, either its based on how many sub weapons you have (as in if you have some, you get more, if you have none you get none), or that it gets worse the longer the program is open. [/quote]
The RNG really is horrible some times, that's RNG for you. But yeah, when you have a lot of ammo it certainly feels like you're getting more.

2012-05-18 09:04:12 am

I am encyclopedia

I got a 39:47 with zips. Still horrible, lots of deaths. There's a Japanese RTA that finishes in about 29 minutes, that's my current goal.

Edit history:

ozzy88: 2012-05-18 02:46:24 pm

ozzy88: 2012-05-18 02:45:39 pm

2012-05-18 02:44:41 pm

This is like all I hoped for with this game and more! People getting a bit serious and routes getting routed, just good times for one who's standing at the sidelines.

My map for HCL's main area is cleaned up and almost ready to submit (again). I got a a hold of Jon (the vgmaps.com guy) and he said that even my earlier map could have been accepted O.O

Anyhow, I've also cleaned up Dodo's Den and almost Bat's Cave (or whatever they are called). So a map without enemies and all items mapped but not listed is on it's way!

I will not start to fix more dungeons after Bat's Cave. First I'll try to figure out how to best mark out all items on the main map and then use the same method on the dungeons.

I know this is not really on topic but it's close enough. Keep up the good work and run for fun!

Edit history:

AxonZin: 2012-05-18 10:32:37 pm

2012-05-18 10:31:52 pm

I am encyclopedia

Just thought I'd bring up that if you're worried about dying to the final boss, there is an alternate Dodo skip you can do that does not require ladder dropping. Just throw 3 boomerangs and climb down the ladder. The rangs will break the statue on the way back around. The downside to this is that it is slower and consumes more ammo.

Hsanrb

2012-05-19 12:13:35 am

Just did some casual playthroughs tonight and got a 37:05 gametime 38:40 RTA 100% Zipless JTV split this in two hours and my mic static is kind of annoying but its ok.

http://www.justin.tv/hsanrb/b/318677763 pt1
http://www.justin.tv/hsanrb/b/318677838 pt2

2012-05-19 03:27:44 am

Quote from Hsanrb:

Just did some casual playthroughs tonight and got a 37:05 gametime 38:40 RTA 100% Zipless JTV split this in two hours and my mic static is kind of annoying but its ok.

http://www.justin.tv/hsanrb/b/318677763 pt1
http://www.justin.tv/hsanrb/b/318677838 pt2

And you weren't going to run this game, pfft! Good job mate!