How to bypass HDCP for use with Blackmagic Intensity (PS3 owners, read here!)

Andrew_Mills

Edit history:

Andrew_Mills: 2013-06-21 03:48:54 am

2013-06-21 03:45:14 am

AlphaStrategyGui des.com

Thanks TheThrillness, I've just bought that 4-way powered HDMI splitter and I'll likely return the DVI-HDMI box I got as this seems less of a ballache (even though I actually have a HDMI-DVI cable already for my iPad).

MrLonghair

Edit history:

MrLonghair: 2013-06-21 06:37:07 am

2013-06-21 06:36:36 am

Audio-guy. twitchtv:ohgoddamnit

Thrillness, no sign of added latency frames? I'd like to see someone try it with quirky Hapuppauge equipment, I recall they don't care much for HDMI splitters.

I found that very model on DX ( http://dx.com/p/1080p-full-hd-1-to-4-hdmi-v1-3-splitter-black-127652 ) and also one with a switch instead of a circular button ( http://dx.com/p/hdmi-v1-3-1x4-4-output-splitter-100-240v-ac-29771 ). DX are reliable and trustworthy just for the record, I trust their methods of handling CC data better than some English webstores..

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2013-06-21 07:32:24 am

TheThrillness: 2013-06-21 07:31:53 am

2013-06-21 07:26:24 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Yeah I saw that one with a switch but I don't know if it strips. It looks to have a different PCB layout (input HDMI is in the middle) so you are taking a chance if it will work.

As for the latency frames, I can't detect anything. I have played for about 4 hours using the splitter and seems good. I'd only be worried about a device if it was going from analog to digital (or vice versa) but since the device is keeping everything digital, there should be no delay (if there is delay it will be something like 1 or 2ms).

Andrew_Mills

Edit history:

Andrew_Mills: 2013-06-25 02:13:45 am

Andrew_Mills: 2013-06-25 01:47:33 am

2013-06-25 01:43:24 am

AlphaStrategyGui des.com

Another confirmation that the DVI-HDMI device does indeed strip HDCP for PS3 capture. Ran through my Elgato at 1080p over HDMI. One quick tip for Elgato users, choose the Xbox 360 profile as the PS3 one is set to Component only (I couldn't get it to change). It doesn't matter anyway, as it's only a video-detection profile. Smiley

Proof enclosed below:

Also note that the actual device differs completely from the one shown in the eBay auction picture:

Looking forward to getting the HDMI splitter too. But I'll definitely keep this as a backup for when the Next Gen consoles arrive (so I can have one for each console). Smiley

Thanks again for the heads up to it TheThrillness

SmokeyBri

2013-06-26 07:29:49 am

Thrillness I also bought http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-WAY-HD-hub-1080p-1-x-4-HDMI-3D-Splitter-Amplifier-HDTV-1-3-HD-TV-/290724340294?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item43b0856246
But got an email today to say
"We got the latest information from our technical dept. response the item you ordered from us has been tested out some technical issues. Therefore, we have to return all items back to our supplier."
It also asked whether I wanted to cancel order or wait another 2-4 days for the replacements to land in UK.
It doesn't sound good. I think I will cancel the order and look elsewhere. Does anyone know of any working hdcp strippers in the UK?

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2013-06-26 02:08:54 pm

TheThrillness: 2013-06-26 02:07:25 pm

TheThrillness: 2013-06-26 02:06:49 pm

2013-06-26 02:00:53 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

You should ask what "technical" issues they had.

If you want to get it elsewhere in UK here you go: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1x4-HDMI-splitter-1-input-4-output-for-Sky-PS3-1080-15M-/380463502007?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item58956452b7

Another link: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-WAY-HDMI-Splitter-Amplifier-1080p-1x4-HD-HUB-HDTV-/121120990025?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item1c335fa349

Both are slightly cheaper.

I wouldn't be surprised if this one worked to but don't buy it based on that: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1080P-1-X-4-Ports-HDMI-Splitter-Switcher-Amplifier-3D-HD-TV-PS3-SKY-XBOX-DVD-BOX-/261034525934?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item3cc6dec4ee

Also some good info! The 1x2 Sewell splitter is available direct from Sewell for UK users! Smiley

"Date first available at Amazon.co.uk: 25 April 2013"

http://www.amazon.co.uk/electronics/dp/B00CIZ3HJG

It's funny because I checked Google search for this splitter last week and found nothing.

SmokeyBri

2013-06-26 02:21:24 pm

Thrillness Thanks for that. I emailed them earlier today but not had a reply yet.

Andrew_Mills

2013-06-27 03:24:47 am

AlphaStrategyGui des.com

I've just bought the Sewell device (as I've also got that 'technical problem' e-mail from the eBay auction about the 4-way splitter), so if that works, I'll send the eBay one back under the 7-day long distance selling regulation. Smiley

SmokeyBri

2013-06-27 04:46:29 am

They emailed back to say that the new splitter would work with a PS3 ;). So I will await delivery and let you know if it works.
Andrew can you let me know if the Sewell one works ok as I'll get that one if this doesn't.

MrLonghair

2013-06-27 05:05:16 am

Audio-guy. twitchtv:ohgoddamnit

Depends on what the unit on the receiving end is. Hauppauge gear seems to dislike these cute little splitters and instead favour DVI+Audio to HDMI converters.

SmokeyBri

2013-06-27 10:06:30 am

MrLonghair what card or method would you recommend to capture hd footage? I was thinking of getting a hauppauge colossus or an intensity pro.

Omnigamer

2013-06-27 11:20:39 am

All the things

I've used the AVerMedia C027/H272 "AVerTV HD" or "BlackCrystal HD" (they're all the same device) with 360 and PS3 and it works great in either case. The C127 "Game Broadcaster" also works well, but you forego any SD connections with that device. I cannot comment on Colossus or Intensity Pro.

Any of the options assume you have already stripped the HDCP from the PS3's output.

Andrew_Mills

Edit history:

Andrew_Mills: 2013-06-28 04:44:14 am

2013-06-28 03:30:11 am

AlphaStrategyGui des.com

Okaaaaaaay, this is very strange. The Sewell splitter arrived from Amazon this morning and I tried it over 1080p and 720p with the Elgato and it works perfectly fine. No problems at all. When I hooked it up to my Blackmagic Intensity Pro capture card however, it doesn't work with either Amarec (2.10b) or even Media Express. Undecided

When I went back and used my DVI-HDMI converter box on the Intensity Pro card, it works perfectly fine. So the DVI box is definitely sending a 100% HDCP free signal. It even works if I daisy chain my Intensity Pro into the HDMI out of the Elgato (although you then can't record the HDMI signal from the Elgato in Amarec as the resulting video becomes a rainbow display of dancing colours - see below).

If I daisy-chain the Sewell splitter via the Elgato into the Intensity Pro then I DO get a signal! (But NOT if I connect the Sewell directly to the intensity). There's a couple of seconds delay in the audio this way, but it works in Amarec. if I put the Intensity back into the splitter (so it's feeding both the Elgato and the Intensity at the same time), the Elgato works but the Intensity doesn't. Undecided

But I can't be sure what the sewell box is doing exactly as it's not working on my main capture card directly. Very, very odd.

*edit*
Spoke with a super helpful guy called Paul on the UK Blackmagic Support team and he's helped me solve almost all of the above issues.

1). The HDMI handshake between the Sewell and the Pro must be different and simply could be incompatible with the Pro. So, don't use this splitter with this capture card.
2). The rainbow effect in the screenshot occurs because the Pro takes an RGB source and converts it to the YUV colour-space and when using Lag it doesn't seem to work with the YUV colour-space Sad

Anyone know of any good 64-bit compat codecs that work on the YUV colour-space?
3). It's also worth noting that the Elgato outputs HDMI audio in AAC format *only*. This means that the Pro can't capture this output audio as it only recognises Linear PCM 2-channel audio for capture over HDMI.

Okaaaaaaay, this is [i]very[/i] strange. The Sewell splitter arrived from Amazon this morning and I tried it over 1080p and 720p with the Elgato and it works perfectly fine. No problems at all. When I hooked it up to my Blackmagic Intensity Pro capture card however, it [i]doesn't[/i] work with either Amarec (2.10b) or even Media Express. :-\ :-\ :-\

When I went back and used my DVI-HDMI converter box on the Intensity Pro card, it works perfectly fine. So the DVI box is [b]definitely[/b] sending a 100% HDCP free signal. It even works if I daisy chain my Intensity Pro into the HDMI out of the Elgato (although you then can't record the HDMI signal from the Elgato in Amarec as the resulting video becomes a rainbow display of dancing colours - see below).

[img]http://www.gamerguides.co.uk/temp/elgato-into-intensity-pro-amarec-capture.jpg[/img]

If I daisy-chain the Sewell splitter via the Elgato into the Intensity Pro then I DO get a signal! (But NOT if I connect the Sewell directly to the intensity). There's a couple of seconds delay in the audio this way, but it works in Amarec. if I put the Intensity back into the splitter (so it's feeding both the Elgato and the Intensity at the same time), the Elgato works but the Intensity doesn't. :-\

But I can't be sure what the sewell box is doing exactly as it's not working on my main capture card directly. Very, very odd.

*edit*
Spoke with a super helpful guy called Paul on the UK Blackmagic Support team and he's helped me solve almost all of the above issues.

1). The HDMI handshake between the Sewell and the Pro must be different and simply could be incompatible with the Pro. So, don't use this splitter with this capture card.
2). The rainbow effect in the screenshot occurs because the Pro takes an RGB source and converts it to the YUV colour-space and when using Lag it doesn't seem to work with the YUV colour-space :( Anyone know of any good 64-bit compat codecs that work on the YUV colour-space?
3). It's also worth noting that the Elgato outputs HDMI audio in AAC format *only*. This means that the Pro can't capture this output audio as it only recognises Linear PCM 2-channel audio for capture over HDMI.

MrLonghair

2013-06-28 05:02:29 am

Audio-guy. twitchtv:ohgoddamnit

BlackMagic devices are at least guaranteed to work with the Monoprice DVI+Audio to HDMI converter, if you want to jam the feed right into that and forget about the ElGato.

Andrew_Mills

2013-06-28 05:51:41 am

AlphaStrategyGui des.com

Quote from MrLonghair:

BlackMagic devices are at least guaranteed to work with the Monoprice DVI+Audio to HDMI converter, if you want to jam the feed right into that and forget about the ElGato.

Very true, but it's always nice to experiment around and try to understand why things don't work as you expect them to. Learned quite a bit today about the Pro card that I didn't know in all the years I've had it. Smiley

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2013-06-28 07:57:16 am

2013-06-28 07:54:39 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Interesting finds Andrew.

I ordered my Sewell yesterday so it should be here tomorrow or Monday and I can double check any issues. In regards to your points:

1. Maybe this is just an EDID issue? I don't know much about it but try things like connecting the HDMI cables before the splitter gets powered on/connect HDMI cables after splitter is switched on.
2. You might be able to set the PS3 to Limited RGB mode which will set it to 16-235 used in YUV rather than 0-255 of real RGB.
3. Yeah that sounds about right.

Edit: Found this blog where the person used a Sewell splitter from a 360 to the BMIP: http://jetlaggersix.blogspot.co.uk/p/xbox-streaming-setup.html

Can you try a 360 to know that an improper HDCP handshake is the cause of point 1? (Since the 360 won't have HDCP).

Actually if you read that blog he does mention using a PS3 "Please note that in all of my streaming configurations (Xbox, PS3, gaming PC)" so the Sewell must work with the PS3 and BMIP as I guess from the diagram he just swaps out the 360 for a PS3.

Interesting finds Andrew.

I ordered my Sewell yesterday so it should be here tomorrow or Monday and I can double check any issues. In regards to your points:

1. Maybe this is just an EDID issue? I don't know much about it but try things like connecting the HDMI cables before the splitter gets powered on/connect HDMI cables after splitter is switched on.
2. You might be able to set the PS3 to Limited RGB mode which will set it to 16-235 used in YUV rather than 0-255 of real RGB.
3. Yeah that sounds about right.

Edit: Found this blog where the person used a Sewell splitter from a 360 to the BMIP: http://jetlaggersix.blogspot.co.uk/p/xbox-streaming-setup.html

Can you try a 360 to know that an improper HDCP handshake is the cause of point 1? (Since the 360 won't have HDCP).

Actually if you read that blog he does mention using a PS3 "Please note that in all of my streaming configurations (Xbox, PS3, gaming PC)" so the Sewell must work with the PS3 and BMIP as I guess from the diagram he just swaps out the 360 for a PS3.

Andrew_Mills

Edit history:

Andrew_Mills: 2013-06-28 09:04:35 am

2013-06-28 09:04:02 am

AlphaStrategyGui des.com

1). Doesn't matter when you use the splitter and turn it on, doesn't work directly with the BMIP. Sad

(I tried your experiment and that was the result I got for both).
2). It's not that, it's when recording the feed coming out of the Elgato, I can record non-HDCP RGB images fine from the PS3 with Lag (no idea why adding the Elgato messes this up).
3). Looks like I'll ignore the Sewell for now and keep it as a cheap back-up and use the DVI option for the PS3 in general as I *know* that works directly with the BMIP.

Some day I'll move up to a 1080p60 card, but until then the BMIP does fine with Amarec and Lag. Smiley

MrLonghair

2013-06-28 03:02:05 pm

Audio-guy. twitchtv:ohgoddamnit

Hm! Have you tried changing the HDMI options around, from the PS3 itself? Here's the cheapest 1080p60 I know of: http://www.sknet-web.co.jp/english/mvxx/specification.html

Of course it's raw as heck

Quote:

※Estimated storage requirement for recording (1 hour of recording)
1080p 60fps：approx900GB

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2013-06-28 03:39:03 pm

TheThrillness: 2013-06-28 03:39:00 pm

TheThrillness: 2013-06-28 03:38:49 pm

2013-06-28 03:37:49 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

46,000 Yen (their store price) is ridiculous. That's gonna be over £330 with postage.

If you ever do need 1080p60 get the SC-512N1-L. I was able to negotiate with Solaris Japan to get this card for £240...36,000 Yen (that includes shipping to UK).

HasSanChop

2013-06-28 05:11:13 pm

Unfortunately (yet again!), this Monoprice I ordered & received doesn't work. Again, my testing was Blu-ray Player --> HDMI Splitter --> Hauppauge Colossus = blackscreen. (However, it may have generally defective -- a computer monitor on the 2nd out-port lit the activity light but it's picture blinked on, only for a moment, every several seconds.)

as per June 2013:
"Monoprice 1x2 Mini HDMI Splitter w/ 3D Support"
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008CR10K2/

TheThrillness

2013-06-29 01:04:56 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Andrew, some interesting news. My Sewell splitter is working fine and removing HDCP with my PS3 and Intensity Pro.

I noticed it came with the same PSU as my 1x4 splitter.

Maybe different models of PS3 have different HDCP handshaking? I have the super slim 500 GB model.

Attachment:

SAM_2073.JPG

Andrew_Mills

2013-06-30 10:57:28 am

AlphaStrategyGui des.com

Hmmm... I have the regular slim 160GB model. Could be that or maybe even the HDMI cables??? Makes no sense though. Undecided

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2013-06-30 11:38:08 am

TheThrillness: 2013-06-30 11:37:43 am

2013-06-30 11:19:26 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

It's possible that the HDMI chipset is different to accomodate the newer design. I can't find any info on what HDMI chip each PS3 model used though.

Edit - Okay so looking here:

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cracking-open/ps3-super-slim-teardown-reveals-hardware-changes-but-no-real-upgrades/871

and

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/PlayStation+3+Slim+Teardown/1121/4

The super slim and slim share the same HDMI chipset (Panasonic MN8647091).

I guess you could try other cables....

Andrew_Mills

Edit history:

Andrew_Mills: 2013-06-30 02:04:18 pm

2013-06-30 01:48:10 pm

AlphaStrategyGui des.com

I've just ordered a newer Sewell Splitter, one that also upports 2k+4k video. *IF* this strips HDCP like its smaller brother, then it's a future-proofed purchase. Barely any more expensive than the smaller one too.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00CIZVMM0/

I'll try some other cables. (Could be I need 1.3 spec versus 1.4 ethernet versions perhaps)?
I've ordered a 1.3a and a 1.4a cable to see if either of those are requiring a different handshake. Nothing else I can think of as the box *does* work (as I've witnessed with the Elgato). The 1.4a cable handles 2k+4k so that'll be nice if the new splitter also strips HDCP...

TheThrillness

2013-06-30 03:08:15 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Good luck Andrew!

The cables I show in the picture are Sony ones from here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-2M-1-4V-Pro-HDMI-Cable-HD-Ready-Full-3D-Genuine-BLACK-UK-/160664825115?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item25685ead1b

It says v1.4 so I don't think HDMI cable versions are the problem.