How do you describe, "The Final Boss" in a game?

2013-02-07 12:05:27 pm

Now Reap The Whirlwind!

Don't know. Haven't played FF12. But a good example of what I was talking about would be FF10, where Yu Yevon is the final boss, but there are a lot of bosses in the monster arena stronger than him. However, you don't need to fight them to beat the game. Therefore, they count as secret bosses.

Alko

2013-02-07 03:34:46 pm

Caution: This user contains Kana ^_^

I've been thinking the other day.
Examples for bad final bosses:
— Super Mario Bros' 8-4. It's the same bowser sprite with the same music, he throws the same hammers, and only AndrewG will be able to tell off the top of his head, if the hammer throws/jump sequences are in any way different from 1-4, 2-4, 3-4, through to 7-4. It might actually have surprised people to not have to go to another castle.
— Zelda OoT's Ganondorf/Ganon battles. Okay, the music is different, but you've fought Phantom Ganondorf before, so you pretty much know your way through phase one, and Ganon after that … well, it's kinda boring, and you'll probably win. Nuff said.
Example for a good (but probably still improvable) final boss:
— Yoshi's Island's Bowser. Not only does he have a crazy level in front of him, he also has absolutely unique music AND unique mechanics (you don't stand facing the screen at any other time in the game, your egg shots don't work as they did before).

JackintheBox333

2013-02-07 03:56:46 pm

Professional Shaq Fu Speedrunner

I would somewhat disagree with your assessment of Super Mario Bros. World 8 goes out of its way to signal that you are on the final levels of the game. One level you are running along castle walls to get to the main castle at the end of the level. 8-4 is a complete maze, unlike any of the other levels in the game. For 1985, its fine.

For OOT, its a well crafted final boss. Sure Ganondorf is a bit of a rehash, but if he didn't play like Phantom Ganon, then it would be jarring. Phantom Ganon was a puppet crafted in Ganondorfs image, so of course they are going to have similarities. Then the whole castle escape leads to a surprise final confrontation with Ganondorf, who has transformed into Ganon, and you have to fight him with no Master Sword. Its well played and provides the player with a challenge and is consistent with the game.

I agree with Yoshi's Island because the boss fight is so jarring because the mechanics are different and they don't work like you think they might. Another boss fight in the similar vein is Andross in Starfox Adventures. Its the only space boss fight in the entire game, the previous space levels were extremely short levels that consisted of you flying and collecting golden rings. The boss fight is extremely jarring, even in a Starfox game, and it comes off as poor design.

Though as much as I do not want to bring up this game... does MB count as the final boss of Other M? It is presented as a boss, and you go to aim at her...

I would somewhat disagree with your assessment of Super Mario Bros. World 8 goes out of its way to signal that you are on the final levels of the game. One level you are running along castle walls to get to the main castle at the end of the level. 8-4 is a complete maze, unlike any of the other levels in the game. For 1985, its fine.

For OOT, its a well crafted final boss. Sure Ganondorf is a bit of a rehash, but if he didn't play like Phantom Ganon, then it would be jarring. Phantom Ganon was a puppet crafted in Ganondorfs image, so of course they are going to have similarities. Then the whole castle escape leads to a surprise final confrontation with Ganondorf, who has transformed into Ganon, and you have to fight him with no Master Sword. Its well played and provides the player with a challenge and is consistent with the game.

I agree with Yoshi's Island because the boss fight is so jarring because the mechanics are different and they don't work like you think they might. Another boss fight in the similar vein is Andross in Starfox Adventures. Its the only space boss fight in the entire game, the previous space levels were extremely short levels that consisted of you flying and collecting golden rings. The boss fight is extremely jarring, even in a Starfox game, and it comes off as poor design.

Though as much as I do not want to bring up this game... does MB count as the final boss of Other M? It is presented as a boss, and you go to aim at her...

Uilnslcoap

2013-02-07 04:21:23 pm

F*ckin' sanity effects...

Meh, I agree with Alko about SMB and OoT myself...

Alko

2013-02-07 04:21:32 pm

Caution: This user contains Kana ^_^

I do agree with the 8th castle being much more of a maze than the previous ones on second thoughts. And yes, running along the castle walls in 8-3 also gives it away. The boss itself, not including the castle is still pretty simply what you had earlier, though.

I don't know how much surprise the revival of Ganon gave other people after running down from the castle, but … why would you run if the game was over? There had to be something coming.
The whole thing about having lost the master sword was easily ignored by changing to the biggoron sword. It's easy to see that you have to hit his tail (why the heck would it be flashing in those sparkling bright colours otherwise?) and I didn't find it considerably harder than previous bosses of the game.

Stormknight

2013-02-07 06:48:27 pm

Now Reap The Whirlwind!

Ganondorf and Ganon in OoT may not have been that difficult, but that boss has incredible atmosphere, music, and feel. It's one of my favorite fights. Also, consider that fight from the perspective of someone who is on their first playthrough of OoT. Makes everything seems way cooler.

Piston

2013-02-07 08:26:22 pm

Heh, amateurs...

I prefer final bosses that are a combination of every skill and strategy you are to master throughout the game, as well as traits of previous bosses. And I agree that the final boss should have multiple phases and rounds of fighting. The theatrics of course make it all the more surreal of an experience.

In my opinion, the Zelda series does this better than any other game or series of games.

AlecK47

2013-02-07 08:34:31 pm

I consider The Undying to be the "final" boss of FFXII because it's the last boss in the main story. Yiazmat is just the most badass monster in the game (and technically it's a "mark" or "hunt" rather than a "boss," although that technicality doesn't matter to me). Also, it's not uncommon to call the second Cid fight (in the Pharos) the "real final boss," but to me that is just a nod to the fact that it's a more difficult fight than anything on the Bahamut.

I follow the same logic in other games: final boss = the last boss in the main story arc, even if it's not the hardest fight. Of course that makes Mass Effect 3 a bit confusing for me, but I ignore the ending to that game anyway. Tongue

zewing

Edit history:

zewing: 2013-02-07 09:13:54 pm

2013-02-07 09:13:33 pm

just( •_•)>⌐■-■ ..... (⌐■_■)wing it

I don't know if this was mentioned but the final boss in Final Fantasy VI where you fight Kefka with a party of 12 (4 at a time) was very cool. Bad ass music and multi phases with a pretty cool background. That was intense fight.

GreigaBeastDS

2013-02-19 07:52:22 am

I have a "Final Boss" where he has far more health than anything else, gives you more resets per hour than anything else in the run, and basically can easily overpower you at any level (if you play fairly). Not many boss nowadays do that because video game difficulty is painfully obviously going down.

There's also the "True Final Boss" where his requirements are huge, his level is the hardest in the game, and he basically has loads of unfairness added to him.

For both you should be using a bunch of items/weapons you have, and a mix of all the weapons/skills you've gained. There should also be some form of strategy, like having to buff or protect a character or play slow, as opposed to the only thing being rushing them down.

demonicjak

2013-02-19 08:15:36 am

I think a final boss fight needs to make you think ahead just one or multiple steps and have alot of rng because bosses with patterns can be ok dont get me wrong but they aren't that challenging once you know them, a good final boss for me has great music and environment, has to be something/someone you look forward to get to beat him, needs to have rng so its still alot of fun if you kill him multiple times instead of just repeating the patterns u did on the first time u beat him and he needs to look awesome Cheesy

theunoriginalname

2013-03-05 03:00:46 pm

http://www.serebii.net/rb/elite5.png

kirbymastah

2013-03-05 04:03:29 pm

<(^_^)>

Quote from theunoriginalname:

http://www.serebii.net/rb/elite5.png

THIS