How do you describe, "The Final Boss" in a game?

2013-02-03 07:49:53 pm

SDA Apprentice -- (3-1)

Recently, I was trying to put together a video of the fastest "Final Boss Fights" on SDA to commemorate the 800th game to be added to the site in the next update. However, I noticed that as I was watching all of the runs on the site that it was almost impossible to say when the "Final Boss" fight starts, when it finishes or how to even time it while being fair to the other games. So to ensure that I try and make the Top 100 list as simple and "reasonable" as possible, I would like to ask those of you how you look at "The Final Boss" and what you expect out of it. Keep in mind that this doesn't matter at all what genre here since it spans past any adventure or RPG games.

Do you believe that the final boss should be "Unique" and not just some more powerful version of a unit you've been killing? Be able to put of a fight instead of going down in one hit? Makes you feel that at the end of it all that you deserve to feel like you've won?

This again is taking into account in not only the small video I'm putting together, but also something that I would like to write an article about. Would be interesting to see how some of us feel about that final fight where you see the end in sight and only one man or creature stands in your way.

Thread title:

Recently, I was trying to put together a video of the fastest "Final Boss Fights" on SDA to commemorate the 800th game to be added to the site in the next update.  However, I noticed that as I was watching all of the runs on the site that it was almost impossible to say when the "Final Boss" fight starts, when it finishes or how to even time it while being fair to the other games.  So to ensure that I try and make the Top 100 list as simple and "reasonable" as possible, I would like to ask those of you how you look at "The Final Boss" and what you expect out of it.  Keep in mind that this doesn't matter at all what genre here since it spans past any adventure or RPG games.

Do you believe that the final boss should be "Unique" and not just some more powerful version of a unit you've been killing?  Be able to put of a fight instead of going down in one hit?  Makes you feel that at the end of it all that you deserve to feel like you've won?

This again is taking into account in not only the small video I'm putting together, but also something that I would like to write an article about.  Would be interesting to see how some of us feel about that final fight where you see the end in sight and only one man or creature stands in your way.

zewing

2013-02-03 08:02:45 pm

just( •_•)>⌐■-■ ..... (⌐■_■)wing it

Final boss should have more health than other bosses. He should hit harder and definitely should be unique cause simple palette swaps won't do. Basically I want to be challenged that way I feel like I actually accomplished something.

TrUShade

2013-02-03 08:04:44 pm

The TrUest of Shades

Exactly what Zewing said. But another thing that is a big selling point for me is the music in the final boss. I don't want the music to be the same as every other boss battle I have had in this game.

A good example for this is (for me) Persona 4's true final boss. Like that is what a final boss should be

Heidrage

Edit history:

Heidrage: 2013-02-03 08:11:57 pm

2013-02-03 08:11:19 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

Dark Souls - Gwyn. Music unlike any other part of the game, relentless, hits hard and fast, and a real challenge if you dont know the cheese strat. Even then with cheese the window for it is really small, and he can change up his pattern so you cant just get him in a rhythm but you need to focus and react properly. That is a final boss.

Rakuen

Edit history:

Rakuen: 2013-02-03 09:08:51 pm

Rakuen: 2013-02-03 09:08:16 pm

Rakuen: 2013-02-03 08:36:41 pm

2013-02-03 08:34:36 pm

Weegee Time

I really enjoy multi-phase final bosses. This is the guy behind it all, he should have more planned than to go guns blazing into our hero(es). He should have multiple contingency plans/forms/whatever and pull out all the stops to make sure he wins. This also allows the game to challenge the player in many different ways using the same boss. Kind of a "final exam" of sorts for the game.

Less gameplay oriented, it also helps to have a compelling villain. He shouldn't just want to ______ the ______. Give me some motivation. Bonus points if you can make him somewhat sympathetic, but still clearly someone who I need to stop.

For a final boss that exemplifies multiple forms, almost to the point of the ridiculous, see Wild Arms 3 (no run on site though). For a boss that is compelling to fight, see Tales of Vesperia.

PJ

2013-02-03 08:51:52 pm

Is PJ

He should ideally be a palette swap of the first boss and have literally no other changes except maybe being slightly faster. Also, he should be his own level consisting of at most two rooms. Mohawk sure did know how to do it right.

On a slightly more serious note, it definitely depends on the game for me. Some games deserve a big dramatic final boss, and others don't. Haha. The final boss in like every Mega Man game is a pitiful Wily capsule that just takes a long time and presents no challenge. Nothing wrong with that.

Stormknight

Edit history:

Stormknight: 2013-02-03 08:56:41 pm

2013-02-03 08:55:45 pm

Now Reap The Whirlwind!

For me, the final boss fight means that this enemy is the greatest challenge the game has to offer. It means that you have worked and slaved for hours, making sure your character(s) are prepared for the titanic challenge that is to come. In terms of story, the final boss is the climax of the whole game. This character has been the one that caused you so much strife and frustrations and is the mastermind trying to manipulate the world to suit their own twisted designs. To combine those two points, the final boss has to be hard enough that it takes all your mastery of the game to triumph over them and then all, if any, loose ends of the story have to explained so that you feel as though you truly defeated the game. In my opinion, the ultimate final boss fight would be Zeromus in Final Fantasy 4.

Sir VG

2013-02-03 09:27:19 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Final Boss fights for me are the last major battle that you can lose. For instance, FF7 does have a 1-on-1 fight between Cloud and Sephiroth, but that's not the final boss fight since it's impossible to lose. Braska's Final Aeon is the final boss fight for FFX, since that stuff after you have to try to lose (since all characters have autolife that comes back over and over).

zastbat

2013-02-03 09:29:12 pm

Lord Of The Beards

For me it is the last fight where a boss can decide whether you will win the fight or instantly kill you for the lolz

FFgamer86

2013-02-04 04:36:02 am

SDA Speedruns: 1

if your looking for a fast final boss. Look at Final Fantasy Mystic Quest. That boss fight lasts 3-4 rounds depending on level and takes about 40 seconds from start to finish. In a final fantasy game thats fast.

Sir VG

2013-02-04 05:10:29 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote from FFgamer86:

if your looking for a fast final boss. Look at Final Fantasy Mystic Quest. That boss fight lasts 3-4 rounds depending on level and takes about 40 seconds from start to finish. In a final fantasy game thats fast.

Granted that one is taking advantage of some serious glitches.

FFgamer86

2013-02-04 06:41:13 am

SDA Speedruns: 1

He never mentioned anything about glitches. Also, my speedrun of Spanky's Quest has a fairly quick final boss. Maybe like 90 seconds total for the fight. Its the longest boss in the game but all the bosses are quite short.

presjpolk

2013-02-04 07:13:03 am

HELLO!

The floor in Ultima: Exodus is the best end boss of all time. Kappa

Uilnslcoap

2013-02-04 08:02:06 am

F*ckin' sanity effects...

Want to die a few times facing the first time, see some varied attack patterns. No one-hit kills (unless the game only gives you one hit in the first place), but they should hit harder and faster than any other enemy in the game. Story builds to fighting them, ideally. It should be a fight where you actually utilize multiple skills/attacks learned throughout the game, and not suddenly (for instance) a tank simulator in what was otherwise a platformer.

Gruntilda in Banjo-Kazooie is my favorite final boss.

zewing

2013-02-04 09:12:29 am

just( •_•)>⌐■-■ ..... (⌐■_■)wing it

Oh forgot to mention but final boss should have AI instead of "meh RNG RNG RNG RNG". Dracula X for snes is the worst example of a final boss. I can understand a little bit of rng but don't just make it ONLY rng.

I have no name

2013-02-04 10:00:17 am

Obscure games ftw

Quote from zewing:

Oh forgot to mention but final boss should have AI instead of "meh RNG RNG RNG RNG". Dracula X for snes is the worst example of a final boss. I can understand a little bit of rng but don't just make it ONLY rng.

Ape Escape I think has it worse.
Well, the Monkey Madness last boss anyway, it's all RNG with what attacks he gives you and can only be damaged after a specific one.
The true final boss in Peak Point Matrix is actually pretty fun, even if it gets a bit repetitive.

kirbymastah

2013-02-04 10:18:27 am

<(^_^)>

Best definition of a final boss: Point at someone in other m

/sarcasm

sinister1

2013-02-04 01:54:24 pm

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Mike Tyson is a good final boss because he can screw you with RNG, or just plain overpower you, and you have to do a minimum of 13 frame perfect tricks to win in a speedrun. That would be my definition of fair.

Seriously though, I do like a final boss that is a big challenge (Tyson), good music changes (Shadow Warrior in DDII), multiple forms (Ninja Gaiden series), and most importantly something that will just maul you on your first attempt.

Yagamoth

2013-02-04 05:00:59 pm

INTJ

I vote for Thanatos from Secret of Mana. While he is not really the final final boss, the atmosphere and music is so incredibly impressive. You simply know, damn.. This is it, after all our miseries and trouble, we've finally arrived at the prime evil and we have only have a thread of hope to defeat him.

Also, I think the three guys from Seiken Densetsu 3 (=Secret of Mana 2) would be really noteworthy.

For general final Boss... In short, have to notice him and it must be clear, that this is the actual boss. As a bad example - in Dungeon Siege 3.. I had no idea this big dude was the final Boss, I simply thought: "Nice, at least some challanging boss enemy after such a long time"..
- Athmosphere, unique music, challenging

FFgamer86

2013-02-04 11:40:27 pm

SDA Speedruns: 1

If you want an unexpected final boss. Pick pretty much anything from Final Fantasy series.

RoboSparkle

2013-02-04 11:49:57 pm

Magical. Flying. Bathtub

Bagula from Mega Bomberman is a great final boss, as he's a challenge to so many people, but when you have the game-breaking remote detonator (by not dying since world 2-4 or going back and replaying if you do) he's a pushover. He's the only boss with three forms, and the final form lays bombs to attack you. This actually makes him the only enemy IN THE GAME that you can defeat without laying bombs.

grassini

2013-02-07 06:27:49 am

Quote from Stormknight:

For me, the final boss fight means that this enemy is the greatest challenge the game has to offer. It means that you have worked and slaved for hours, making sure your character(s) are prepared for the titanic challenge that is to come. In terms of story, the final boss is the climax of the whole game. This character has been the one that caused you so much strife and frustrations and is the mastermind trying to manipulate the world to suit their own twisted designs. To combine those two points, the final boss has to be hard enough that it takes all your mastery of the game to triumph over them and then all, if any, loose ends of the story have to explained so that you feel as though you truly defeated the game. In my opinion, the ultimate final boss fight would be Zeromus in Final Fantasy 4.

what about those secret powerful and even stronger but not final bosses?

like culex in super mario rpg

Stormknight

2013-02-07 07:26:01 am

Now Reap The Whirlwind!

Then they count as secret bosses, not final bosses. As long as the final boss still has a high degree of difficulty, I'd be satisfied.

frokenok3

2013-02-07 10:18:44 am

Agreed with many things the previous people said. What is my ideal one though?

The Final Bos must be:

-Unique
-Have Multiple Phases
-Atmosphere should be ominous and giving you the feeling that this is it.
-During phases must have different music and the final one to be orchestrated with the main theme of the game
-It must have more health, hit harder, have better AI
-It must give you a challenge
-Be unexpected and depending on the game to have a variety of moves.

Thats why my favorite Final Bosses are from KH1 and KH2. That is what i call a Final Boss! Truly marvelous!

Shiden

2013-02-07 11:36:04 am

Quote from Stormknight:

Then they count as secret bosses, not final bosses. As long as the final boss still has a high degree of difficulty, I'd be satisfied.

By your logic, Yiazmat would be a secret boss. But after gearing and leveling just to fight Yiazmat, The Undying is a sick joke, lol. Wink

To me, Yiazmat is the final boss in FF12. Opinions?