House of the Dead (specifically Boss Rush)

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-03-31 01:00:27 am

2007-03-16 10:52:20 pm

Never give up!

Since I forgot most of my PC games back in my dorm room, I went through the other PC disks I had available to me and managed to discover that I still had my copy of House of the Dead - a game I used to play a LOT.

Now, I'm not sure a run of either the Arcade or Original modes would be feasible, as those would just be basically a long memorization chore. (Name me a currently-available run that was more memorization than actual skill and I'll reconsider my statement.) Plus the only speed increases could possibly come from good routes and accurate shooting, rather than actual movement. I personally am more interested in the Boss Mode - basically, you pick a boss and you have to beat it in the fastest time possible. Or the 'all boss' mode where you can fight all four bosses one after the other.

I'm quite a bit rusty at this game, so I wouldn't likely be able to do this right away. I'd rather stir up a competition and see who can beat the bosses fastest.

Here's the times I have so far (newest times in bold):

Chariot: 17.64 (probably not beatable by a full second)
Hanged Man: 1:00.65 (OH SO CLOSE to below a minute)
Hermit: 31.87 (not beatable by all that much IMO)
Magician: 1:07.xx (probably improvable by a little)
All Boss: 3:19.53 (I don't doubt this is improvable)

Anyone have any interest in competing here?

(For those interested: Yes, there's a pattern to the boss names. All bosses in the House of the Dead series, barring maybe only the last boss of the third game, are named after the 'major' tarot cards - though only a few actually bear any resemblance to their card. Not all of the cards are covered - there's about five or six that aren't covered as far as I know.)

Thread title:

Since I forgot most of my PC games back in my dorm room, I went through the other PC disks I had available to me and managed to discover that I still had my copy of House of the Dead - a game I used to play a LOT.

Now, I'm not sure a run of either the Arcade or Original modes would be feasible, as those would just be basically a long memorization chore.  (Name me a currently-available run that was more memorization than actual skill and I'll reconsider my statement.)  Plus the only speed increases could possibly come from good routes and accurate shooting, rather than actual movement.  I personally am more interested in the Boss Mode - basically, you pick a boss and you have to beat it in the fastest time possible.  Or the 'all boss' mode where you can fight all four bosses one after the other.

I'm quite a bit rusty at this game, so I wouldn't likely be able to do this right away.  I'd rather stir up a competition and see who can beat the bosses fastest.

Here's the times I have so far (newest times in bold):

Chariot: [b]17.64 [/b](probably not beatable by a full second)
Hanged Man: [b]1:00.65[/b] (OH SO CLOSE to below a minute)
Hermit: 31.87 (not beatable by all that much IMO)
Magician: [b]1:07.xx [/b](probably improvable by a little)
All Boss: 3:19.53 (I don't doubt this is improvable)

Anyone have any interest in competing here?

[size=10](For those interested: Yes, there's a pattern to the boss names.  All bosses in the House of the Dead series, barring maybe only the last boss of the third game, are named after the 'major' tarot cards - though only a few actually bear any resemblance to their card.  Not all of the cards are covered - there's about five or six that aren't covered as far as I know.)[/size]

ZeRo

2007-03-17 04:44:35 pm

Speed is everything!

I am interested Grin

nameless

2007-03-18 05:38:30 am

Akuma ma ta ta, what a wonderful phrase!

yeah it could be fun to watch those stupid bosses get their asses kicked hard and fast

Zurreco

2007-03-18 08:38:56 pm

Just call me the cynicism machine

I'd love to see this or Typing of the Dead.

As for your challenge; lots of games like Uninvited or Shadowgate require more memorization than skill.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-03-21 11:57:06 pm

2007-03-21 12:25:46 am

Never give up!

I said 'runs' (though I probably can count TASes in this case) but I suppose that works....

So do you think G or Scientist would be better for a run of Original Mode? (I'm assuming no 'auto reload', as I'm a bit of a purist as far as House of the Dead goes. I'll probably determine the answer to this as I find out how much weaker the Scientist's bullets are compared to G's.)

Anyway, I went and improved the two times I had already listed, and also have a time for Hangedman. Will update those in a moment.

Just note that listed times are unrecorded as of yet - I'll start recording once I have a full set.

But first, a few strategies:
-Chariot: The real important parts are rattling off seven shots to his weak spot without missing and making sure to clear the head and chest areas first after his armor goes.
-Hangedman: As long as the bat phase is taken care of quickly, and the second phase is cleared before reaching the balcony edge, you should be fine, as phase three isn't all that hard to do fast.
-Hermit: He reels after every shot, but during the second half, you can actually keep him off balance and never allow him a chance to shield himself. This is key to a good time.

Magician is the toughest fight by far to get right. Here's some things I note:
-By far the best target for this fight is Magician's left quadricep (his left, not yours, meaning you shoot the one on your right), except for one spot I'll mention later. His right shin is the other good spot to shoot during most attacks - forget the arms until the part where I say it's better to hit him there.
-You can deal with the first phase the first time before his 'four fireballs' attack can reach you, and without getting hit.
-On both occurrences of his second phase, his first charge occurs after three dodges, and all others occur after two. So only pay attention to the last dodge before he charges.
-Both occurrences of his second phase take about six stops for him to quit that attack.
-When he goes back to first phase, I believe it can be taken out before the first attack fully concludes if you only concentrate on the weak spots.
-When he does his chargeup move, as he starts crouching, switch focus to his right forearm (remember, the one on your left). It represents a better target than the quadricep or shin. I don't think he can be beaten during the first use of it - I've done it at the end of the second use.

Edit: Completed an 'all boss' attempt. I'm definitely going to need to improve my Hangedman, Magician, and 'all boss' times before considering recording.

Edit 2: Scientist easily trumps G as the best character for PC mode (I believe I'd called this 'Original Mode' or something like that before). It's a real wonder what a larger clip does. Scientist's damage isn't too much higher than the norm, so the 'high' label for damage is something of a misnomer IMO.

I said 'runs' (though I probably can count TASes in this case) but I suppose that works....

So do you think G or Scientist would be better for a run of Original Mode?  (I'm assuming no 'auto reload', as I'm a bit of a purist as far as House of the Dead goes.  I'll probably determine the answer to this as I find out how much weaker the Scientist's bullets are compared to G's.)

Anyway, I went and improved the two times I had already listed, and also have a time for Hangedman.  Will update those in a moment.

Just note that listed times are unrecorded as of yet - I'll start recording once I have a full set.

But first, a few strategies:
-Chariot: The real important parts are rattling off seven shots to his weak spot without missing and making sure to clear the head and chest areas first after his armor goes.
-Hangedman: As long as the bat phase is taken care of quickly, and the second phase is cleared before reaching the balcony edge, you should be fine, as phase three isn't all that hard to do fast.
-Hermit: He reels after every shot, but during the second half, you can actually keep him off balance and never allow him a chance to shield himself.  This is key to a good time.

Magician is the toughest fight by far to get right.  Here's some things I note:
-By far the best target for this fight is Magician's left quadricep (his left, not yours, meaning you shoot the one on your right), except for one spot I'll mention later.  His right shin is the other good spot to shoot during most attacks - forget the arms until the part where I say it's better to hit him there.
-You can deal with the first phase the first time before his 'four fireballs' attack can reach you, and without getting hit.
-On both occurrences of his second phase, his first charge occurs after three dodges, and all others occur after two.  So only pay attention to the last dodge before he charges.
-Both occurrences of his second phase take about six stops for him to quit that attack.
-When he goes back to first phase, I believe it can be taken out before the first attack fully concludes if you only concentrate on the weak spots.
-When he does his chargeup move, as he starts crouching, switch focus to his right forearm (remember, the one on your left).  It represents a better target than the quadricep or shin.  I don't think he can be beaten during the first use of it - I've done it at the end of the second use.

Edit: Completed an 'all boss' attempt.  I'm definitely going to need to improve my Hangedman, Magician, and 'all boss' times before considering recording.

Edit 2: Scientist easily trumps G as the best character for PC mode (I believe I'd called this 'Original Mode' or something like that before).  It's a real wonder what a larger clip does.  Scientist's damage isn't too much higher than the norm, so the 'high' label for damage is something of a misnomer IMO.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-03-31 03:28:56 am

2007-03-31 12:48:36 am

Never give up!

Picked this up again, and I'm definitely improving. I may try recording a set of boss fights later tonight, and maybe even PC Mode if I'm lucky and can remember the perfect path.

Will post my improved Hangedman and Magician fight times in a moment.

Edit: Okay. I put those new times up.

I'm probably not settling for anything slower than these times when recording. It's just better policy that way.

Edit 2: New Chariot time, and I am trying to think of how I can match that in recording.

Edit 3: Believe it or not, I have times for Chariot, Hangedman, and Hermit that are actually recorded. Magician's still pissing me off though, and I refuse to do an all-boss attempt until I get a good Magician video. I'm hoping to get below 1:05, and have reason to believe that below a minute MAY be possible (it would require beating him before he lets off his fireball attack even once - a feat that requires absolute perfection).

I'll wait to reveal those times until I have the full set.

Edit 4: My recorded times are as follows:

Chariot: 16.89
Hangedman: 58.17
Hermit: 30.00
Magician: 1:05.15 (try as I might, I can't pull off preventing his fireball attack)
All Boss: 2:54.09

Difference between All Boss time and aggregate individual boss times is a little over four seconds. Not bad IMO.

Just need to get a PC mode run up and we'll be set for this game.

Edit 5: Just had a failed attempt at PC mode. As far as I can tell, the fastest route goes like this:
-Save the first three scientists.
-Then save the one about to be thrown off the bridge.
-Shoot the left monkey when the first pair shows up.
-Proceed through the rest of the stage as usual.
-In stage 2, do NOT shoot the floor panel or the elevator switch.
-When you get to the mini-lab's bridge switch, shoot that one.
-Proceed through the rest of the stage as usual.
-In stage 3, when given a choice between the elevators, take the RIGHT one - the left one, despite looking faster on the 'route taken' map after getting a game over, has longer wait periods and more encounters.
-Don't let the last scientist you encounter die.
-When you have the two doors, shoot the left one until it opens.
-That's it for route changes.

It might be a while before I do PC mode - I want to do as well as I can on it. Besides, I'd rather get an official thumbs-up on whether a speedrun of a multiple-paths 'rail shooter' would be accepted before bothering. (I don't doubt nearly as much the possibility of the boss times being accepted, as those are timed in-game and you have much more control over those. And if any mods are reading this, the boss mode is available from the start - it is NOT an unlockable.)

Picked this up again, and I'm definitely improving.  I may try recording a set of boss fights later tonight, and maybe even PC Mode if I'm lucky and can remember the perfect path.

Will post my improved Hangedman and Magician fight times in a moment.

Edit: Okay.  I put those new times up.

I'm probably not settling for anything slower than these times when recording.  It's just better policy that way.

Edit 2: New Chariot time, and I am trying to think of how I can match that in recording.

Edit 3: Believe it or not, I have times for Chariot, Hangedman, and Hermit that are actually recorded.  Magician's still pissing me off though, and I refuse to do an all-boss attempt until I get a good Magician video.  I'm hoping to get below 1:05, and have reason to believe that below a minute MAY be possible (it would require beating him before he lets off his fireball attack even once - a feat that requires absolute perfection).

I'll wait to reveal those times until I have the full set.

Edit 4: My recorded times are as follows:

Chariot: 16.89
Hangedman: 58.17
Hermit: 30.00
Magician: 1:05.15 (try as I might, I can't pull off preventing his fireball attack)
All Boss: 2:54.09

Difference between All Boss time and aggregate individual boss times is a little over four seconds.  Not bad IMO.

Just need to get a PC mode run up and we'll be set for this game.

Edit 5: Just had a failed attempt at PC mode.  As far as I can tell, the fastest route goes like this:
-Save the first three scientists.
-Then save the one about to be thrown off the bridge.
-Shoot the left monkey when the first pair shows up.
-Proceed through the rest of the stage as usual.
-In stage 2, do NOT shoot the floor panel or the elevator switch.
-When you get to the mini-lab's bridge switch, shoot that one.
-Proceed through the rest of the stage as usual.
-In stage 3, when given a choice between the elevators, take the RIGHT one - the left one, despite looking faster on the 'route taken' map after getting a game over, has longer wait periods and more encounters.
-Don't let the last scientist you encounter die.
-When you have the two doors, shoot the left one until it opens.
-That's it for route changes.

It might be a while before I do PC mode - I want to do as well as I can on it.  Besides, I'd rather get an official thumbs-up on whether a speedrun of a multiple-paths 'rail shooter' would be accepted before bothering.  (I don't doubt nearly as much the possibility of the boss times being accepted, as those are timed in-game and you have much more control over those.  And if any mods are reading this, the boss mode is available from the start - it is NOT an unlockable.)

samsara

2007-04-13 04:56:43 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Not sure If your still doing this run of idividual bosses but you should probably check some of my House of the Dead runs

Hangedman 0-52-40

I also make a note that I did achieve 0-47-73 but didn't get fraps to capture it.

Magician 0-58-38

You already beat my times for Chariot and Hermit so those won't be listed.

ZeRo

2007-04-13 05:16:54 pm

Speed is everything!

Wow nice aim Grin

AquaTiger

2007-04-13 06:47:16 pm

Never give up!

I KNEW Magician could be beaten before unleashing the big fireball attack!

I had a rough time doing much in the past couple of weeks, but I probably will get back to this.

Anyway, are you using auto reload there? Because that's what it looks like to me. None of my times use it as I'm a bit of a purist - the arcade versions don't have auto-reload, and having played the House of the Dead games a lot in the arcade, I'm reluctant to use it. (It's almost like Mike Uyama and 'vulcan fix' in the Metal Slug series.)

Of course, if the SDA admins don't care either way, I may consider doing 'auto reload' versions of Hangedman and Magician, and the 'all boss' run. Auto reload wouldn't help much on Chariot and Hermit because those two bosses recoil every time they are shot. The trick to Hermit is that he has very short 'vulnerability times', and exploiting these was the only way I was even able to get below 40 seconds.

samsara

2007-04-13 07:20:48 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Yea I do use auto reload in those runs.

It took me a while to figure out how to defeat magician before he unleashed those fireball rain. His left leg is the viable spot to aim for.

Hangedman can be beaten in and maybe under 47'73 from my experience. Damn fraps for not recording it. I just found it my first time through after getting back into this game after being away from it for so long. There seems to be a certain window of oppurtunity when he goes all the way to the right and if you defeat him before he moves away he should leave before his usually 28 second fly away before the 40 second smack you down hanging for dear life.

I already know about the short vulnerability times for Chariot & Hermit. Its just that at most I'am only about max 2 seconds away from your Chariot and Hermit times. And you doing it without auto reload is pretty amazing. Getting into position quickly with a mouse for Chariot is not easy for speed because you never know where the reticul willl appear at. At least with Hermit you can adjust for the head.

I don't think there should be a separate versions for the run when doing a single trial for a boss. Auto Reload style play can be emulated closely as a player using a mouse pressing shoot with immediate reload in the same span of time. It's just that Auto Reload removes the reload part and focus's on shooting and aiming. You'll have to ask who's ever in charge if auto reload and manual should be in the same category or separated.

Yea I do use auto reload in those runs.

It took me a while to figure out how to defeat magician before he unleashed those fireball rain.  His left leg is the viable spot to aim for.

Hangedman can be beaten in and maybe under 47'73 from my experience.  Damn fraps for not recording it.  I just found it my first time through after getting back into this game after being away from it for so long.  There seems to be a certain window of oppurtunity when he goes all the way to the right and if you defeat him before he moves away he should leave before his usually 28 second fly away before the 40 second smack you down hanging for dear life.

I already know about the short vulnerability times for Chariot & Hermit.  Its just that at most I'am only about max 2 seconds away from your Chariot and Hermit times.  And you doing it without auto reload is pretty amazing.  Getting into position quickly with a mouse for Chariot is not easy for speed because you never know where the reticul willl appear at.  At least with Hermit you can adjust for the head.

I don't think there should be a separate versions for the run when doing a single trial for a boss.  Auto Reload style play can be emulated closely as a player using a mouse pressing shoot with immediate reload in the same span of time.  It's just that Auto Reload removes the reload part and focus's on shooting and aiming.  You'll have to ask who's ever in charge if auto reload and manual should be in the same category or separated.

AquaTiger

2007-04-13 07:31:05 pm

Never give up!

Well, I'm more worried about whether the admins will take auto reload at all (I admit, there's not really a case for banning it, because in the PC version, it's a normal game option available from a fresh install). If it is allowed, which I can pretty much assure it will be, I actually don't see the need for separate categories in THIS situation.

Anyway, the funny thing about Hermit is, it may be doable slightly faster, but I haven't been able to pull it off.

I'll put those videos up somewhere eventually. Heck, I may finally decide to put something on YouTube (which I've been reluctant to use, mainly because of their content size limit).

samsara

2007-05-19 03:28:37 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Hey AquaTiger, have you improved on any times yet since the last post?

I've done some time trials of bosses and achieve some faster times since the last time.

Hermit in 0:29.54
http://www.dailymotion.com/adowaki/video/x20q08_the-house-of-the-dead-1-pc-hermit-0

Hangedman in 0:51.40
*still haven't been able to replicate 0:47.82 yet*
http://www.dailymotion.com/adowaki/video/x20nr6_the-house-of-the-dead-1-pc-hangedma

ZeRo

2007-05-19 06:07:56 pm

Speed is everything!

That looks nice...

Drak

2007-09-20 12:54:57 pm

I like neko girls :3

I hate to necro post, but.... Reaching 47 would be crazy hard to do... My personal best is 53.90 at the moment. Kudos to you, samsara.

Especially since I noticed, before he goes to knock you off the ledge, he is immortal till about 30 seconds on the timer, so that wastes a few seconds right there, I don't think the game lets you proceed to the hanging phase at less than 30 seconds. So you have to shoot like a demon after you start hanging to get 47. I think.